Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 .. 14 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mario Putzo
1171
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 00:27:42 -
[361] - Quote
The problem is the drones not the ship. Its not a fluke that CCP goes out and buffs drones, and suddenly we see 3 years of varying Drone only FOTM doctrines. Prophs, Gilas, Domis, Archons, Ishtars....what do they all have in common...Sentry Drones. |
Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
67
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 21:51:59 -
[362] - Quote
Remove domies tracking bonus and 1-2high slots. Remove ishtars range bonus. Problem solved and you still got pretty good, all around ships :) |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1121
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 22:43:51 -
[363] - Quote
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..
Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
|
Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1523
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 00:35:02 -
[364] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line.. Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
|
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
113
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 00:51:44 -
[365] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..
Wierd... Really |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
279
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 08:35:04 -
[366] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:Remove domies tracking bonus and Remove ishtars range bonus. Problem solved and you still got pretty good, all around ships :)
Yes. ( -í~ -£-û -í-¦)
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
256
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 09:30:59 -
[367] - Quote
2 issues with the ishtar as it stands: ~No1a - cruiser using battleship class weapons (this turns it into a drone version of the attack BC's with T2 resists, a bonus to MWD usage, and a smaller sig rad, better align, etc) ~No1b - usage of drones leaves plenty of highslots free for further DPS or RR, as the player wants it ~No1c - enough drone space for multiple waves of sentries - which reduces the destruictibilityof drones as a destructible source of DPS
~No2 - sentry alpha is too good - what if you staggered all sentry damage from a single ship so that it occured a few times each tic, rather than once every tic?
Quote:let's say a garde has a RoF of once every 5s, with a damage of 200/volley (numbers pulled out of the air), as things stand, 5 gardes will deal 1,000 dmg once every 5s, scaling up for drone assist to 11k perfect alpha, (iirc the drone assist changes correctly), and then it's staggered over 25 people as all the squad commanders sic their drones onto a target NEARLY simultaneously, resulting in 275k near-perfect alpha if sentry dmg was staggered, 5 gardes would deal 200 dmg every second, the dps scales up before, but the alpha is now 1/5th of what it was previously (for all situations), thus making it less effective a fleet weapon than before
also if heavy drones kept their perfect alpha, and sentries lost theirs, it might give an incentive to use heavies more
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|
Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
68
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 08:38:08 -
[368] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Harvey James wrote:all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line.. Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion
would still be better than where it is right now. |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
766
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 10:08:30 -
[369] - Quote
Any ship with a projection, damage and application bonus will be overpowered and I have no idea why the ishtar/other drone boats still has all of them. Imagine the napoc having a damage bonus, the oracle a tracking bonus, Deimos a tracking bonus and the Muninn use a different weapon system. No matter how u turn it it will be oberpowered.
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
|
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
453
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 11:25:31 -
[370] - Quote
That seems like common sense, right?
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-odyssey-1.1 - Never Forget.
Quote:ISHTAR: Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty. Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking(was 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage). 10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage. Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level. 7.5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range and tracking speed(was bonus to drone bay capacity).
Just look what had been replaced with these double bonuses, which are the growing cancer of Eve. But never mind that, we'll just splinter and cut the damage afterwards. A little.
I, three, would like a Zealot with an Optimal & Tracking rolled into one, on top of the RoF & Damage bonuses.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
|
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
331
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 14:28:41 -
[371] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:That seems like common sense, right? http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-odyssey-1.1 - Never Forget. Quote:ISHTAR: Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty. Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking(was 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage). 10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage. Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level. 7.5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range and tracking speed(was bonus to drone bay capacity). Just look what had been replaced with these double bonuses, which are the growing cancer of Eve. But never mind that, we'll just splinter and cut the damage afterwards. A little. I, three, would like a Zealot with an Optimal & Tracking rolled into one, on top of the RoF & Damage bonuses.
Don't forget to give it drones, too. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
331
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 14:31:56 -
[372] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Harvey James wrote:all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line.. Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion
The opinion of known exploiters is irrelevant. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1136
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 14:42:20 -
[373] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Harvey James wrote:all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line.. Wierd... Really
ofc.. droneboats dont need highs for weapons so they effectively get free slots..
Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
|
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1111
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 15:10:14 -
[374] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:Harvey James wrote:all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line.. Wierd... Really ofc.. droneboats dont need highs for weapons so they effectively get free slots..
No, the highs often see DLA, range is otherwise poor. Except the Ishtar, which doesn't even need those!! |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1356
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 15:11:33 -
[375] - Quote
DLAs are high slot modules. After fitting DLAs, OTC or OTE, DDA, some tank and prop mod, you have next to no CPU left to fit something else.
And I still stand by my demand that the Ishtar should just lose the application bonuses (Tracking and Optimal) and keep damage bonuses as before the latest nerf.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1111
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 15:17:13 -
[376] - Quote
They could simply have binned the drone range bonus and reduced CPU such that the thing actually had fitting trade offs. Want range? Lose DDAs. Or go full glass cannon and drop tank. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
577
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 15:23:17 -
[377] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Harvey James wrote:all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line.. Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion Scale it then. Drone frigs lose 1 of their like 2 high slots, t1 cruisers lose 2 slots, weighted heavily towards 2 highs, t2 cruisers and up lose 3, weighted towards highs again.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
104
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 15:56:38 -
[378] - Quote
You guys have freaking rigs that raise sentry drone damage, unlike any other drones. No other drones have damage rigs.
Consider all the advantages turrets have over missiles, which is higher DPS and FULL damage application if angular velocity becomes very low, even for oversize guns (large sig resolution vs small radius). This is completely unlike missiles which still receive huge penalties hitting much smaller targets.
Turrets are already powerful enough vs small stuff.
Now add onto the fact that you have decentralized tracking from your own ship as a drone boat, in which angular velocity can get close to zero on the target numerous times as it flies around, and you have wrecking blows from battleship weapons onto frigs and other cruisers.
Drone damage on drone boats should be half their DPS equation. Damage from their guns should be the other half.
Capqu wrote:17% damage reduction doesn't seem like it will fix the massive imbalance in damage done
when the drake got gutted them main thing targeted was application, and i think you should look at that for the ishtar too
its simply too good at all different kinds of ranges
bouncers have crazy range and tracking at that range gardes have battleship damage and cruiser tracking and scorch range pve wise wasps have frigate tracking and battleship damage and you can be afk and have warpcore stabs fit so there really isnt any reason to use any other ship [other than a vexor navy because its the same thing but cheaper LOL]
honestly 17% damage off the top of the sentry part seems irrelevant in on a ship which had battleship damage and yet its main imbalance is was flexibility
why can it fit and run 100mn AB with no fitting mods btw? it has fitting/cap regen for guns yet does not need to fit them, i think addressing this would help
edit: im not suggesting gutting it like the drake, which was clearly terrible and resulted in a bad ship [and weapon sysem] but i do think harsher treatment is necessary here
So maybe drone boats the fitting should be much less for them if their main damage is in drones, because of how drones are a weapon system that take no fitting.
There's tons of ways in which drone boats have been way too strong for a long time.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
104
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 16:09:07 -
[379] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:This will achieve the goal of making Ishtars less useful, but unfortunately does nothing to make other ships useful. Range and speed are overpowered in EVE, and only doctrines with damage projection and mobility work.
In other words, people will just use the next platform that outranges others while remaining mobile, leaving whole shipclasses gathering dust in hangars.
Kind of like Punisher in solo pvp. The problem is there's not a lot of options to to deal with that. Yes, Damps and TDs exist, but they can be either hard or impossible to fit, or really nerf a ships overall power beacuse as you said, damage and mobility are much more powerful. As more and more people are using drone boats in FW, such as worms and dragoons, TDs are becoming more useless, because the main damage application for droners is a bunch of tiny fast ships its useless to try to deal with in a short lived fight. Drones overall are the flavor of the year, not the month.
It'd be nice if slower ships, that are meant to be slow tanky heavy hitters, actually had viability. (punisher, etc).
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Joanna RB
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:13:22 -
[380] - Quote
The problem here was the ill thought out introduction of drone damage amplifiers. All of a sudden, drones changed from a handy secondry weapon (or afk-ratting trick) into primary-weapon DPS territory. However ships were not changed to accommodate the change in role of drones to a primary weapon. Sentries are battleship-grade weapons. The Ishtar having sentries is now like giving the muninn 1400's (or more, unbonused sentries can out-damage unbonused 1400's at both its minimum and maximum range, and out-track them by a HUGE amount). Really the only sub-caps using 5 sentries should be the domi and geddon. Perhaps reducing the bw on heavies to 100 and aiming BC and HAC droneboats at 100 bw would help? |
|
Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
69
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:17:20 -
[381] - Quote
Imo there are two bad things which happened....
- giving domi/ishtar heavy drone modes while also introducing drone modes which augmented it even more
- removing of need for guns without making changes to high slot layouts.
This nerf was hardly enough and requires tougher approach.+ê
Ishtars would be back in line if they got removed range bonus. This would actually require pilots to use their brains.
Domies would badly need to lose atleast 2high slots. So it actually has to make choices when fitting. Reduction to tracking would be good as well to make it more look like a battleship. It has plenty of slots for tracking mods. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1357
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:21:00 -
[382] - Quote
Joanna RB wrote:The problem here was the ill thought out introduction of drone damage amplifiers. All of a sudden, drones changed from a handy secondry weapon (or afk-ratting trick) into primary-weapon DPS territory. However ships were not changed to accommodate the change in role of drones to a primary weapon. Sentries are battleship-grade weapons. The Ishtar having sentries is now like giving the muninn 1400's (or more, unbonused sentries can out-damage unbonused 1400's at both its minimum and maximum range, and out-track them by a HUGE amount). Really the only sub-caps using 5 sentries should be the domi and geddon. Perhaps reducing the bw on heavies to 100 and aiming BC and HAC droneboats at 100 bw would help? Because drones are the primary weapon for drone boats. That is why they are called Drone Boats.
And again, 5 Sentries on an Ishtar without range and tracking bonus make sentries next to useless against anything below BS.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
460
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 21:43:19 -
[383] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Joanna RB wrote:The problem here was the ill thought out introduction of drone damage amplifiers. All of a sudden, drones changed from a handy secondry weapon (or afk-ratting trick) into primary-weapon DPS territory. However ships were not changed to accommodate the change in role of drones to a primary weapon. Sentries are battleship-grade weapons. The Ishtar having sentries is now like giving the muninn 1400's (or more, unbonused sentries can out-damage unbonused 1400's at both its minimum and maximum range, and out-track them by a HUGE amount). Really the only sub-caps using 5 sentries should be the domi and geddon. Perhaps reducing the bw on heavies to 100 and aiming BC and HAC droneboats at 100 bw would help? Because drones are the primary weapon for drone boats. That is why they are called Drone Boats. And again, 5 Sentries on an Ishtar without range and tracking bonus make sentries next to useless against anything below BS.
"Next to useless without the Optimal range bonus"
Excuse me, but I've had it with all this bull.
Tell me the **** do I reach these ranges on a Zealot - NEVERMIND reaching that EHP or matching the DPS on such setups:
1) http://i.imgur.com/GqTO6zd.png 2) http://i.imgur.com/cP7kPvH.png
Five sentries on that cruiser hull is BULL. ****.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
106
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 22:34:31 -
[384] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Joanna RB wrote:The problem here was the ill thought out introduction of drone damage amplifiers. All of a sudden, drones changed from a handy secondry weapon (or afk-ratting trick) into primary-weapon DPS territory. However ships were not changed to accommodate the change in role of drones to a primary weapon. Sentries are battleship-grade weapons. The Ishtar having sentries is now like giving the muninn 1400's (or more, unbonused sentries can out-damage unbonused 1400's at both its minimum and maximum range, and out-track them by a HUGE amount). Really the only sub-caps using 5 sentries should be the domi and geddon. Perhaps reducing the bw on heavies to 100 and aiming BC and HAC droneboats at 100 bw would help? Because drones are the primary weapon for drone boats. That is why they are called Drone Boats. And again, 5 Sentries on an Ishtar without range and tracking bonus make sentries next to useless against anything below BS.
Almost like sentries should be used to fight BS, and smaller drones should be used to fight smaller ships? *Le gasp*
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 05:34:15 -
[385] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Joanna RB wrote:The problem here was the ill thought out introduction of drone damage amplifiers. All of a sudden, drones changed from a handy secondry weapon (or afk-ratting trick) into primary-weapon DPS territory. However ships were not changed to accommodate the change in role of drones to a primary weapon. Sentries are battleship-grade weapons. The Ishtar having sentries is now like giving the muninn 1400's (or more, unbonused sentries can out-damage unbonused 1400's at both its minimum and maximum range, and out-track them by a HUGE amount). Really the only sub-caps using 5 sentries should be the domi and geddon. Perhaps reducing the bw on heavies to 100 and aiming BC and HAC droneboats at 100 bw would help? Because drones are the primary weapon for drone boats. That is why they are called Drone Boats. And again, 5 Sentries on an Ishtar without range and tracking bonus make sentries next to useless against anything below BS.
It should be without either range or tracking. One of them would be fine. For other one you can fit modes |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1357
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 05:38:12 -
[386] - Quote
As said before in the thread (page 5 or whatever), I would very much welcome that Ishtar lose their tracking and range bonus for Sentries. That would be much more helpful to put it back into place with other HAC than the slight dps nerf it received recently.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
Lodinko
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 07:15:30 -
[387] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:As said before in the thread (page 5 or whatever), I would very much welcome that Ishtar lose their tracking and range bonus for Sentries. That would be much more helpful to put it back into place with other HAC than the slight dps nerf it received recently.
Apparently removing clever ways of using game mechanics like garage cynos is more important for ccp than doing something good |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
463
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 05:13:52 -
[388] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Joanna RB wrote:The problem here was the ill thought out introduction of drone damage amplifiers. All of a sudden, drones changed from a handy secondry weapon (or afk-ratting trick) into primary-weapon DPS territory. However ships were not changed to accommodate the change in role of drones to a primary weapon. Sentries are battleship-grade weapons. The Ishtar having sentries is now like giving the muninn 1400's (or more, unbonused sentries can out-damage unbonused 1400's at both its minimum and maximum range, and out-track them by a HUGE amount). Really the only sub-caps using 5 sentries should be the domi and geddon. Perhaps reducing the bw on heavies to 100 and aiming BC and HAC droneboats at 100 bw would help? Because drones are the primary weapon for drone boats. That is why they are called Drone Boats. And again, 5 Sentries on an Ishtar without range and tracking bonus make sentries next to useless against anything below BS. It should be without either range or tracking. One of them would be fine. For other one you can fit modes
Hack the optimal - Gallente are known for Tracking bonuses.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1123
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 06:40:24 -
[389] - Quote
Drones will always appear inflated because the ships that don't have any I can count on one hand. Probably. It's early.
Really for these charts, they need to show us the numbers. Or at the VERY least, a scale and a key to stop guesswork. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1370
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 06:50:11 -
[390] - Quote
I wonder if it is possible to discern between drone usage as secondary weapon system (BS like the Apoc, Abaddon or Sacrilege, Vagabond) and primary weapons system (like Worm, Gila, Dominix, Ishtar, Vexor). That graph should be somewhat different. Will it sill fit the narrative to suit the argument?
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 .. 14 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |