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afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 944	Posted - 2015.03.21 13:19:18 - [301] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Soldarius wrote: http://evenews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/zbg9Bbn-1024x702.png Sentry drones are so well balanced. Holy crap. I knew Artillery and ACs were bad, but goddamn dude, when you put it like that... They aren't bad and neither sentries are op when you fit the weapons on the appropriate hulls. The only thing that gets bizarrely out of line are RLML, which outrange and damage most other weapon systems. Unfitted weapon stats aren't really relevant in balance discussions. The charts in EFT always ignore reload impact on DPS, that's why RLML are a bit whacky.
Supreme clientele ETERNAL WALTZ 6	Posted - 2015.03.21 14:13:13 - [302] - Quote Just make it so Ishtar sentries stop firing if you exceed a certain speed.
Vertiggo Andumi State Services 3	Posted - 2015.03.21 16:48:46 - [303] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Please forgive me if I missed something... does this mean the Navy Vexor has more sentry dps than Ishtar? thats what i asked too .. no response Weird... is it not telling that my response is just "well I guess I need to stop training for Ishtar if my DPS is going to DROP after an extra month of narrow-scope skill training"? Maybe I'm just this "rare player type" who isn't quite ready for PvP and actually runs missions... but heavies are out of the question 90% of the time because of NPC aggro, so this is really just taking the axe to my prospective mission efficiency in a big way. It just means I have to look to Dominix and Rattlesnake more... and I wasn't even part of the PvP OP'ness in the first place...
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 944	Posted - 2015.03.21 17:28:42 - [304] - Quote Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Harvey James wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Please forgive me if I missed something... does this mean the Navy Vexor has more sentry dps than Ishtar? thats what i asked too .. no response Weird... is it not telling that my response is just "well I guess I need to stop training for Ishtar if my DPS is going to DROP after an extra month of narrow-scope skill training"? Maybe I'm just this "rare player type" who isn't quite ready for PvP and actually runs missions... but heavies are out of the question 90% of the time because of NPC aggro, so this is really just taking the axe to my prospective mission efficiency in a big way. It just means I have to look to Dominix and Rattlesnake more... and I wasn't even part of the PvP OP'ness in the first place... Being able to fly a HAC to any semblance of efficiency then you are more than able to PvP - you just dont. Also the ishtar will project the DPS much better and tank much better - it's not all about the paper numbers.
Vertiggo Andumi State Services 3	Posted - 2015.03.21 18:29:17 - [305] - Quote afkalt wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Harvey James wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Please forgive me if I missed something... does this mean the Navy Vexor has more sentry dps than Ishtar? thats what i asked too .. no response Weird... is it not telling that my response is just "well I guess I need to stop training for Ishtar if my DPS is going to DROP after an extra month of narrow-scope skill training"? Maybe I'm just this "rare player type" who isn't quite ready for PvP and actually runs missions... but heavies are out of the question 90% of the time because of NPC aggro, so this is really just taking the axe to my prospective mission efficiency in a big way. It just means I have to look to Dominix and Rattlesnake more... and I wasn't even part of the PvP OP'ness in the first place... Being able to fly a HAC to any semblance of efficiency then you are more than able to PvP - you just dont. Also the ishtar will project the DPS much better and tank much better - it's not all about the paper numbers. No offense, you're correct on both points, but when bowling for NPC's paper does have a lot to do with it. Laying down raw DPS and being able to move makes L4's quicker, which means more ISK per minute. You can disagree with the "single player" game, but it exists for a reason. Some of us don't have the desire and/or ability to play differently, especially when 300ms latency is the minimum.
Suitonia Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep 466	Posted - 2015.03.21 18:31:27 - [306] - Quote Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Please forgive me if I missed something... does this mean the Navy Vexor has more sentry dps than Ishtar? Yes it does, although the Ishtar has better tracking, better range, better drone control range, higher resists, better sensor strength, better capacitor stats, MWD signature radius mitigation bonus, higher warp speed, better targeting range... The Navy Omen+Omen has drones and the Zealot doesn't, doesn't mean the Zealot is bad. Navy Exequror outdamages a Deimos if all you're doing is comparing raw blaster DPS... Caracal Navy Issue outdamages the Cerberus when not using kinetic missiles due to drones+application bonus there are plenty of cases like this. Contributer to Eve is Easy: https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1107	Posted - 2015.03.21 18:58:25 - [307] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Please forgive me if I missed something... does this mean the Navy Vexor has more sentry dps than Ishtar? Yes it does, although the Ishtar has better tracking, better range, better drone control range, higher resists, better sensor strength, better capacitor stats, MWD signature radius mitigation bonus, higher warp speed, better targeting range... The Navy Omen+Omen has drones and the Zealot doesn't, doesn't mean the Zealot is bad. Navy Exequror outdamages a Deimos if all you're doing is comparing raw blaster DPS... Caracal Navy Issue outdamages the Cerberus when not using kinetic missiles due to drones+application bonus there are plenty of cases like this. yes but they are only small portion of the dps of those ships, ishtar and VNI = all their damage is based on drones not a small portion. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic, nerf sentries. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 946	Posted - 2015.03.21 19:29:56 - [308] - Quote Vertiggo Andumi wrote: afkalt wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Harvey James wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Please forgive me if I missed something... does this mean the Navy Vexor has more sentry dps than Ishtar? thats what i asked too .. no response Weird... is it not telling that my response is just "well I guess I need to stop training for Ishtar if my DPS is going to DROP after an extra month of narrow-scope skill training"? Maybe I'm just this "rare player type" who isn't quite ready for PvP and actually runs missions... but heavies are out of the question 90% of the time because of NPC aggro, so this is really just taking the axe to my prospective mission efficiency in a big way. It just means I have to look to Dominix and Rattlesnake more... and I wasn't even part of the PvP OP'ness in the first place... Being able to fly a HAC to any semblance of efficiency then you are more than able to PvP - you just dont. Also the ishtar will project the DPS much better and tank much better - it's not all about the paper numbers. No offense, you're correct on both points, but when bowling for NPC's paper does have a lot to do with it. Laying down raw DPS and being able to move makes L4's quicker, which means more ISK per minute. You can disagree with the "single player" game, but it exists for a reason. Some of us don't have the desire and/or ability to play differently, especially when 300ms latency is the minimum. That's fair enough :) Domis are excellent though, the MJD is a godsend for missions. However, if you're serious about mission efficiency - a HAC is a poor choice for the most part - battleships/marauders are where it is at.
Vertiggo Andumi State Services 3	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:07:25 - [309] - Quote Let me just say for the record, the correct response to Ishtar syndrome is fixing sentries, i.e. disabling the IWIN button. Sentries are special in behavior, damage, and tank, so special control range is reasonable. Give them a unique control range of 10km or something independent of their "attack range" so the boats are forced to stay close. We can still orbit one and keep a smaller target, but no kiting and dumping seemingly ad infinitum. If the boat is invincible, it makes no difference how much we muzzle the attack dogs. Since Ishtar can carry 16, everything hinges on forcing the ship itself to fight in all out brawls. If we start simply pulling the damage rug out from under one ship, it will have to cascade down to every other ship with +50% damage modifier. A damage nerf is just a plastic bandaid on a complex fracture.
HazeInADaze Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2015.03.22 11:20:47 - [310] - Quote I was in sentry drone fleets long before the HAC rebalance. The changes that brought on mass sentry use just amped up an already powerful fleet design. The issue is, and will remain, the ability to put out battleship firepower and range from a mobile and resilient platform. The HAC will remain resilient and mobile, what it needs to lose is the area control provided by mass sentry. Simply nerfing the fire power is a brutish rebalance, what should be introduced is a hard counter. Maybe a battleship or capital class module which jams drones or reduces the control range of drones within an area. Create a way to force the HACs to defend the area by risking their ships. The counter to sentries should come with some weakness so the RPS chain is maintained -- preferably a chain that climbs the ship-class ladder. Reducing the power of a ship is never a fun solution. Players want to feel like their ship or fleet is amazing. Creating a solid Rock, Paper, Scissors chain allows people to fly powerful ships, have absolutely lopsided victories, but never give the impression of total imbalance because if the proper counter was used the fight would have gone dramaticalky different.

Aeryn Maricadie Periphery Bound 8	Posted - 2015.03.23 01:32:50 - [311] - Quote Sentry drones are really only OP on the Ishtar/Navy Vexor. It comes from putting the BS weapons platform on a T2 cruiser, its like an attack battle cruiser with super tank instead of glass cannon. This means that the nerf ought to be to the ship and not to drones in general which is the good part of what they are doing. The bad part was that the least problematic part of the ship was the raw damage, but the excellent sig tank combined with the fact that drones don't lose effectiveness when sig tanking. Turreted ships that increase their transversal to avoid damage also lose some of their out put, the Ishtar has no such trade off. The result is the Ishtar not only has loads of raw dps but excellent application as well, the bonuses to range and tracking need to go as much as if not more than the damage. Not to mention I think that the Ishtar does way more damage than any other HAC in general probably throws things off too, but this could potentially be better solved by buffing other systems/ships instead of just beating the Ishtar with the nerf bat.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2015.03.23 02:03:11 - [312] - Quote Another day. Another day nanoggafing in an Ishtar. Thank you, CCP. *** My only hope, as they keep ignoring the Ishtar problem, is that some new developments/dynamics of the coming sovereignty system will force a completely new meta. Otherwise, hello Ishtars Online forevermore. You sunk my battleship. ( -í° -£-û -í°)
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 868	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:51:57 - [313] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: In Scylla we are deploying a set of high-impact balance changes. This thread is for discussing a proposed changed to the Ishtar. We are planning to split it's drone damage bonus in to two bonuses so that we can lower the bonus to sentry damage. It would look like this: Old bonus: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage New bonus: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Light, Medium and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage This change is being made to encourage diversity in ship choice across EVE. The Ishtar has proven strong enough with its current bonus set to dominate in many environments and we want to make sure there is plenty of room for ship choice other than the Ishtar. We came to this decision using a combination of internal metrics, community feedback and by using EFT like everyone else. Too much? Too little? Let us know. Ishtar (and PVE Dominix) dominance became an issue when they were given range and tracking bonuses. Prior to that there were no complaints from anyone. Giving any sentry ship a range bonus gives it the ability to hit with blaster damage at artillery ranges. This is wrong. The solution is extremely simple - remove the range/tracking bonus from sentries on these ships and replace it with a hybrid bonus, as things were before. No need for inconsistent, complicated half measures Fozzie. I agree that moving a mid to a low in the ishtar would be welcome - it could then be a viable armour drone brawler. It could still do shield-nano of course, but not without sacrificing some survivability or a target painter. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1182	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:09:55 - [314] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Soldarius wrote: http://evenews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/zbg9Bbn-1024x702.png Sentry drones are so well balanced. Holy crap. I knew Artillery and ACs were bad, but goddamn dude, when you put it like that... They aren't bad and neither sentries are op when you fit the weapons on the appropriate hulls. The only thing that gets bizarrely out of line are RLML, which outrange and damage most other weapon systems. Unfitted weapon stats aren't really relevant in balance discussions. Holy crap. Did you seriously just post that? Unfitted weapon stats absolutely relevant. If the weapons within a group are not comparable (comparable means having some variation within a general performance range, not identical in performance), then exactly how do you balance them? Put widely disparate bonuses or even penalties on every ship in the game to compensate? The unfit weapon stats are exactly where CCP should start with balancing. Then they can correct any obvious and glaringly bad bonuses on the hulls that have them. Charts like the above indicate disparities in performance (poor balance) between systems in the same category; this case medium weapons + Rapid Lights. Sentry drones have better applied dps to a medium target under worst conditions than every other weapon system by a large margin from 28km all the way out to as far as you can get them to engage. I've suggested multiple ways to fix this. Here is another way; nerf the damage on Gardes, Curators, and Bouncers so that they apply the same dps as Wardens to the same target at their engagement ranges. They'll be comparable to the short-range weapons at long range, better than the long-range weapons at long range, and worse than short range weapons at short range. tbh, even that might not be enough. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 99	Posted - 2015.03.25 02:35:52 - [315] - Quote Remove sentry bonus completely. Heck, remove heavy bonus too, might as well considering how intense the nerf on carriers/supercarriers was.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 970	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:38:39 - [316] - Quote Soldarius wrote: I've suggested multiple ways to fix this. Here is another way; nerf the damage on Gardes, Curators, and Bouncers so that they apply the same dps as Wardens to the same target at their engagement ranges. They'll be comparable to the short-range weapons at long range, better than the long-range weapons at long range, and worse than short range weapons at short range. I think it would be more relevant to compare them to large weapons....with the rest of this post taken into account. Soldarius wrote: Holy crap. Did you seriously just post that? Unfitted weapon stats absolutely relevant. If the weapons within a group are not comparable (comparable means having some variation within a general performance range, not identical in performance), then exactly how do you balance them? Put widely disparate bonuses or even penalties on every ship in the game to compensate? Actually it's perhaps more true than you may first realise. The problem is comparing them to (unbonused or not) other weapons and that is that they cap out at FIVE possible "turrets" per ship before bonuses. Most other DPS boats have more than this. This is why when hulls are compared they use the terms "effective" launchers/turrets and allows more meaningful comparison at a high level. This is really not obvious from the chart and is being overlooked when it shouldnt be. The chart is an oversimplification (and was originally done to show why rails were being nerfed) They are still outliers, but that chart is a bit of a misrepresentation because if you alter sentries to fit there, you nuke them as a battleship platform (where they belong, imo).
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1189	Posted - 2015.03.25 19:40:46 - [317] - Quote afkalt wrote: Actually it's perhaps more true than you may first realise. The problem is comparing them to (unbonused or not) other weapons and that is that they cap out at FIVE possible "turrets" per ship before bonuses. Most other DPS boats have more than this. This is why when hulls are compared they use the terms "effective" launchers/turrets and allows more meaningful comparison at a high level. This is really not obvious from the chart and is being overlooked when it shouldnt be. The chart is an oversimplification (and was originally done to show why rails were being nerfed) They are still outliers, but that chart is a bit of a misrepresentation because if you alter sentries to fit there, you nuke them as a battleship platform (where they belong, imo). Your point of my solution nerfing sentries so as to be inappropriate as a BS-sized weapon platform is correct, and after further reflection I realize that my suggestion would so exactly as you say. But CCP has yet to even acknowledge that Sentries are a BS-sized weapon. (plz link if I am wrong. But I've never seen or heard of it.) http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 877	Posted - 2015.03.25 20:07:48 - [318] - Quote Even on a battleship, a damage-augmented sentry drone is a battleship-powered weapon with an interceptor's lock time and the accuracy of a cruiser. Without DDAs they were acceptable. With DDAs they are game-breaking. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Aeryn Maricadie Periphery Bound 13	Posted - 2015.03.25 22:18:00 - [319] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Even on a battleship, a damage-augmented sentry drone is a battleship-powered weapon with an interceptor's lock time and the accuracy of a cruiser. Without DDAs they were acceptable. With DDAs they are game-breaking. They have a sig resolution of 400 so they have the accuracy of BS weapons not cruisers, looking at the chart you will notice that even the closest ranged sentries cant hit **** under 20km making it easy to get under the guns when fielded by Battleships. Also don't forget that they have the lock time of the parent ship as well. getting around that by using the assist function means there is a problem with that but not the sentries. Sentry drones are fine as a Battleship class weapon its giving them to cruisers that causes the problem.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 972	Posted - 2015.03.26 08:52:27 - [320] - Quote Soldarius wrote: afkalt wrote: Actually it's perhaps more true than you may first realise. The problem is comparing them to (unbonused or not) other weapons and that is that they cap out at FIVE possible "turrets" per ship before bonuses. Most other DPS boats have more than this. This is why when hulls are compared they use the terms "effective" launchers/turrets and allows more meaningful comparison at a high level. This is really not obvious from the chart and is being overlooked when it shouldnt be. The chart is an oversimplification (and was originally done to show why rails were being nerfed) They are still outliers, but that chart is a bit of a misrepresentation because if you alter sentries to fit there, you nuke them as a battleship platform (where they belong, imo). Your point of my solution nerfing sentries so as to be inappropriate as a BS-sized weapon platform is correct, and after further reflection I realize that my suggestion would so exactly as you say. But CCP has yet to even acknowledge that Sentries are a BS-sized weapon. (plz link if I am wrong. But I've never seen or heard of it.) I don't think they've ever admitted it. Sig radius is the big tell though. My phone rounds so it may not be exact but curator II have 0.03 tracking, mega beams 0.02 but the beams go further - but almost identical. It's the application bonused hulls that make them so fiercesome (no one complains about geddon drones Or in fact the VNI or the old Gila).

Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 879	Posted - 2015.03.26 10:52:38 - [321] - Quote Aeryn Maricadie wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Even on a battleship, a damage-augmented sentry drone is a battleship-powered weapon with an interceptor's lock time and the accuracy of a cruiser. Without DDAs they were acceptable. With DDAs they are game-breaking. They have a sig resolution of 400 so they have the accuracy of BS weapons not cruisers, looking at the chart you will notice that even the closest ranged sentries cant hit **** under 20km making it easy to get under the guns when fielded by Battleships. Also don't forget that they have the lock time of the parent ship as well. getting around that by using the assist function means there is a problem with that but not the sentries. Sentry drones are fine as a Battleship class weapon its giving them to cruisers that causes the problem. Thanks for your reply. My response: First, lock time. The lock time of a sentry drone is the lock time of the sensor-boosted Confessor destroyer you have assisted with it - half a second? Confessors can perma-tank lowsec gate-guns while sporting 2 or 3 sensor boosters. A gate camp of 1 confessor and 3 Ishtars can alpha most ships that will come through a gate (since no-one uses battleships any more). Second, accuracy: We of course agree on the numbers. optimal Sig radius 400 and base tracking of 0.036 for a garde II (about 2/3 that of a neutron blaster cannon)... but: * With the advent of range-bonused hulls, the drones hit out as far as targeting range, making tracking a moot point. * With the introduction of the DDA, they hit as hard as a close range weapons system. Prior to the introduction of DDAs and the ishtar/dominix re-jig, sentries were never cited as a problem in PVP. Today, it's a weapons system that dominates the eve skirmish battlefield. The events are not unrelated. Retrospective nerfs to the Ishtar aren't going to help matters or improve the game - no-one wants half a bonus on their ship. Even with no drone damage bonus on the hull, it can fit 3 DDAs, a target painter, micro warp, some shield tank and a DLA... to deliver 440 explosive damage with what is now pinpoint accuracy from 100km away. If someone is able to burn the 100km, the ishtar itself can burn away, abandon the first set of bouncers and drop gardes, berserkers, warriors etc. Now it can abandon one set of drones and re-connect to another at will, keeping the attacker in a crossfire. Now, it can be argued that this is good game-play and requires a skilled ishtar pilot - and this it correct. However, the ishtar has been given a running start - a 100km range advantage. If there are 3 such Ishtars on grid, with good separation, then the target is not in a position to even give chase - no ship can chase down a nano-ishtar while tanking 1200dps. When I first started Eve, the complaint of all gallente pilots (like me) was that we could never get into the fight because the ships were slow and the weapons were short range. Now the ships are fast (this is good) and the weapons range is extreme. Everyone else now suffers the disadvantage that we used to suffer. It ain't right I tell ya (although until fozzie sees sense I will be abusing it all I can). Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1197	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:37:04 - [322] - Quote So, looking at that medium weapon+sentry chart, I decided to do the same thing with large weapons. Target conditions are identical to the previously posted chart, except the target is a 400m sigRad ship moving at 101m/s; a typical large ship target before links. http://imgur.com/XJIWFZY You may notice I did not include heavy drones. Reason was simple, they are so far superior to everything else that it was distorting the graph. Only Berserkers did less damage than Cruise missiles, and Geckos, lol, 2x the damage obviously. Wasps, Praetors, and Ogres all do more damage than cruise missiles. Ofc, we have to keep in mind that in order to get the indicated ranges with drones, one has to fit multiple Drone Link Augmentors and Sensor Boosters. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1640	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:37:11 - [323] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Vertiggo Andumi wrote: Please forgive me if I missed something... does this mean the Navy Vexor has more sentry dps than Ishtar? thats what i asked too .. no response No T2 resist profile No application bonus No MWD sig bloom bonus No heavy speed/tracking bonus No drone range bonus No T2 sensor strenght A wee bit less warp speed Yes it does get more DPS out of 1 type of drones. Did I miss anything relevant one side or the other?
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1640	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:40:12 - [324] - Quote Soldarius wrote: So, looking at that medium weapon+sentry chart, I decided to do the same thing with large weapons. Target conditions are identical to the previously posted chart, except the target is a 400m sigRad ship moving at 101m/s; a typical large ship target before links. http://imgur.com/XJIWFZY You may notice I did not include heavy drones. Reason was simple, they are so far superior to everything else that it was distorting the graph. Only Berserkers did less damage than Cruise missiles, and Geckos, lol, 2x the damage obviously. Wasps, Praetors, and Ogres all do more damage than cruise missiles. Ofc, we have to keep in mind that in order to get the indicated ranges with drones, one has to fit multiple Drone Link Augmentors and Sensor Boosters. How do heavies compared to short range weapon if we don't take into account the potential to travel so far because the delay is borderline insane anyway?
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1197	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:55:06 - [325] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Soldarius wrote: So, looking at that medium weapon+sentry chart, I decided to do the same thing with large weapons. Target conditions are identical to the previously posted chart, except the target is a 400m sigRad ship moving at 101m/s; a typical large ship target before links. http://imgur.com/XJIWFZY You may notice I did not include heavy drones. Reason was simple, they are so far superior to everything else that it was distorting the graph. Only Berserkers did less damage than Cruise missiles, and Geckos, lol, 2x the damage obviously. Wasps, Praetors, and Ogres all do more damage than cruise missiles. Ofc, we have to keep in mind that in order to get the indicated ranges with drones, one has to fit multiple Drone Link Augmentors and Sensor Boosters. How do heavies compared to short range weapon if we don't take into account the potential to travel so far because the delay is borderline insane anyway? Aye, heavies be slow. You really don't want to wait for them to go 100km. I think when one is considering which is short range and which is long range, Heavy Drones are short range and Sentry Drones are long Range. But EFT always shows mobile drones doing linear damage. Like I said, Berserkers do slightly less damage than cruise missiles, and all the others do more. Guess I really should have included them. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 278	Posted - 2015.03.26 17:44:55 - [326] - Quote I've said it before, I'll say it again, the real problem with the Ishtar is that there is no ship in the game that can effectively hit an Ishtar shooting from range without being locked into kin/therm damage and shooting right into its T2 resists. No ship smaller than a battleship has the range to hit an Ishtar other than the Tengu, Vulture, and Eagle. All three use kin/therm railguns. Since you can't fight at range, you're forced to bloom your sig to try to MWD up closer letting them destroy you with sentry guns as you try to get in close. Even if you include battleships, only the Apocalypse and Megathron have sufficient range and tracking to hit an Ishtar shooting from max range. Artillery with tremor has tracking that is so bad it can't actually track Ishtars, even if they're 125km away. Proton L has only a 96km optimal and does absolute **** for damage. The Megathron does kin/therm damage, and the Apocalypse doesn't have the fitting room to use Tachyons in the first place. The only real counters to Ishtars that don't use sentry drones themselves (Dominix, carriers) are Navy Apocs, or an absolutely gigantic blob of Tengus that can alpha them off the field despite doing kin/therm damage only.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 974	Posted - 2015.03.26 17:52:49 - [327] - Quote If they unlocked the cerb from kinetic, it'd give them an interesting run. But they wont, because being locked to a damage type is "fun".
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 141	Posted - 2015.03.26 18:24:03 - [328] - Quote Would removing the sentry bonus [from the Ishtar] completely be enough of a change? Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
Lienzo Amanuensis 55	Posted - 2015.03.27 23:18:53 - [329] - Quote Why should a Gallente ship get a bonus to using Amarr drones? Limit the Ishtar drone damage bonuses to thermal damage and call it a day.
Shaklu Caldari Provisions Caldari State 38	Posted - 2015.03.28 11:44:34 - [330] - Quote I just don't understand why a cruiser class has bonuses to battleship weapons. Heavy drones and sentries are battleship class weapons, and unless you are flying a t3 battlecruiser or battleship you shouldn't have bonuses to battleship weapons. I'd even say being able to have 5 sentries/heavies up at a time is overkill. Removing bonuses and only allowing 3 or 4 sentries to be active via bandwidth makes the most sense to me.



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