Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9926
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:31:48 -
[61] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:@Jenn aSide I don't like the Ishtar but it pisses me off when CCP keeps doing these "balances" where they make no sense. Is Ishtar Op ? Sure. Is the DPS the problem.. Hell no.
It's like hey why take a look at what wrong with the ship let's just change 1 number and see what happens.
Oh I know. we're forum wrestling with CCP over just that same kind of issue in the Fighter Delegation thread
Just sayin that what you posted is spot on, but CCP is made up of people and ticking them off doesn't help. It's enough that you are right about it, don't let it get to you too much. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5886
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:33:17 -
[62] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:War Kitten wrote:Gustav Mannfred wrote:Why not the following:
decrease the volume of Heavy drones to 20m3 and decrease the dronebandwith of all cruiser sized ships to 100m3, that means, cruisers still can use 5 heavys, that can easly be destroyed and need some travel time while they lose 20% damage when using sentrys. This is probably better than my idea of increasing sentry bandwidth. Go with this. Blobs would simply bring 20% more ships hence my proposal to switch the sentry bonus to a heavies bonus. The heavies have to be more appealing then the sentries for them to be chosen otherwise blobs will simply compensate any dps nerf with more ships in the blob
That's a bit ridiculous. Where do you conjure up 20% more fleet members? Any and every alliance I've flown with flies with the numbers they have that want to form up. Nobody holds 20% more pilots in reserve just in case the nerf bat strikes a ship doctrine.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
|
rsantos
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
30
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:34:06 -
[63] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:@Jenn aSide I don't like the Ishtar but it pisses me off when CCP keeps doing these "balances" where they make no sense. Is Ishtar Op ? Sure. Is the DPS the problem.. Hell no.
It's like hey why take a look at what wrong with the ship let's just change 1 number and see what happens.
The DPS IS a problem! Not many crusiers put out 600-700 dps much less at the insane ranges drone boats have.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11941
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:35:52 -
[64] - Quote
rsantos wrote:colera deldios wrote:@Jenn aSide I don't like the Ishtar but it pisses me off when CCP keeps doing these "balances" where they make no sense. Is Ishtar Op ? Sure. Is the DPS the problem.. Hell no.
It's like hey why take a look at what wrong with the ship let's just change 1 number and see what happens. The DPS IS a problem! Not many crusiers put out 600-700 dps much less at the insane ranges drone boats have.
I have to sort of echo this.
The problem is not the dps or the projection of the Ishtar.
It's the fact that it can do both of those things better than any other ship in it's class, without sacrificing anything in fitting or options.
That had to be addressed, and should have been a long time ago.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family Advent of Fate
25
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:37:43 -
[65] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:rsantos wrote:colera deldios wrote:@Jenn aSide I don't like the Ishtar but it pisses me off when CCP keeps doing these "balances" where they make no sense. Is Ishtar Op ? Sure. Is the DPS the problem.. Hell no.
It's like hey why take a look at what wrong with the ship let's just change 1 number and see what happens. The DPS IS a problem! Not many crusiers put out 600-700 dps much less at the insane ranges drone boats have. I have to sort of echo this. The problem is not the dps or the projection of the Ishtar. It's the fact that it can do both of those things better than any other ship in it's class, without sacrificing anything in fitting or options. That had to be addressed, and should have been a long time ago.
this change does not adress that. 100 man Ishtar blobs will still oneshot everything and outrun everything |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2736
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:39:27 -
[66] - Quote
Probably a bit odd but how about this?
Slot layout 4H/4M/6L Gallente Cruiser Bonuses +10% Drone Damage and HP per level +5% Drone MWD Velocity Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses +20% Medium Scout Drone Damage and HP +7.5% Armor Repair Amount per level
Drone Bandwidth 50Mbps and 200m3 Drone Bay |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1007
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:40:19 -
[67] - Quote
Querns wrote:Zosius wrote:Why don't you make that sentries out of 20km range from the ship get disconnected and be done with it? Leave dps alone. Actually, this is not a bad idea. I'd rephrase it as make drone link augmentors ineffective on sentries.Drone control range seems misapplied towards stationary drones. A reduction to the effect of (Advanced) Drone Avionics to sentries would also help.
drone control range doesn't affect how far the drones can be from your ship drone control range actually means what range your SHIP [not drones] must be from the target to engage the drones the only condition on drones is that they are within 250km [activation proximity] of your ship
don't believe me? try getting an ishtar and doing the following
Sentries ---- 100km ---- target ---- 50km ---- Ishtar
the sentries will fire on the target without issue as long as you have 50km drone control range even though you are 150km from the sentries [way out of drone control range]
terribly worded i know, but that's how drone control range works
and once engaged, you can go anywhere on grid as long as you remain within 250km [activation proximity] of your drones and they will not stop firing
perhaps a reduction in activation proximity is in order?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9926
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:40:43 -
[68] - Quote
rsantos wrote:colera deldios wrote:@Jenn aSide I don't like the Ishtar but it pisses me off when CCP keeps doing these "balances" where they make no sense. Is Ishtar Op ? Sure. Is the DPS the problem.. Hell no.
It's like hey why take a look at what wrong with the ship let's just change 1 number and see what happens. The DPS IS a problem! Not many crusiers put out 600-700 dps much less at the insane ranges drone boats have.
DPS matters not one bit if you can't apply it. My Dread can has DPS in the thousands, for some reason I can't get it to do real well in level 1 missions lol.
There are multiple problems with Ishtars, DPS isn't even the biggest one. |
Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family Advent of Fate
25
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:41:28 -
[69] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Probably a bit odd but how about this?
Slot layout 4H/4M/6L Gallente Cruiser Bonuses +10% Drone Damage and HP per level +5% Drone MWD Velocity Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses +20% Medium Scout Drone Damage and HP +7.5% Armor Repair Amount per level
Drone Bandwidth 50Mbps and 200m3 Drone Bay
that would give you super OP medium drones. also I dont like that you are basically taking what makes the gila unique and slap it on another ship |
rsantos
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
30
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:41:55 -
[70] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:rsantos wrote:colera deldios wrote:@Jenn aSide I don't like the Ishtar but it pisses me off when CCP keeps doing these "balances" where they make no sense. Is Ishtar Op ? Sure. Is the DPS the problem.. Hell no.
It's like hey why take a look at what wrong with the ship let's just change 1 number and see what happens. The DPS IS a problem! Not many crusiers put out 600-700 dps much less at the insane ranges drone boats have. I have to sort of echo this. The problem is not the dps or the projection of the Ishtar. It's the fact that it can do both of those things better than any other ship in it's class, without sacrificing anything in fitting or options. That had to be addressed, and should have been a long time ago.
You can fit a blaster crusier to match the isthar dps... but what will be your range with it? Whats the DPS on a rail, beam or arty crusier or even battleship? Nothing matches sentries... Nerf Then! |
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9926
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:42:26 -
[71] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Probably a bit odd but how about this?
Slot layout 4H/4M/6L Gallente Cruiser Bonuses +10% Drone Damage and HP per level +5% Drone MWD Velocity Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses +20% Medium Scout Drone Damage and HP +7.5% Armor Repair Amount per level
Drone Bandwidth 50Mbps and 200m3 Drone Bay
RIP any reason to ever use a Gila again. |
Cataphrac
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:43:34 -
[72] - Quote
As already pointed here:
- No cruiser hull should be allowed to use sentries since they already can use heavy drones. Only BC, BS and Carrier hulls should use it;
My 2 cents.
Obs.: Raise sentries bandwidth from 25 to 30/35. Just to don't turn Ishtar Online in Eos Online. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5886
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:44:11 -
[73] - Quote
Blobskillz McBlub wrote: this change does not adress that. 100 man Ishtar blobs will still oneshot everything and outrun everything
There are better ways to drop 100 ships on someone and one-shot alpha them than using a ship that has to lock the target twice before firing. Your issue here is the 100 man fleet to start with.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
|
Faltzs
Thundercats The Initiative.
18
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:46:31 -
[74] - Quote
The damage reduction is meh, ishtars will remain the most flexible hac in game. 1) because its vast spread of bonus to drone types heavies/sentries. 2) its ease of fitting both armour or sheild tanks for decent ehp.
I would rather see it loose all sentry bonus in exchange for a remote rep bonus at this point than leave it a can do anything with battleship esc weapons. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2736
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:47:55 -
[75] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Probably a bit odd but how about this?
Slot layout 4H/4M/6L Gallente Cruiser Bonuses +10% Drone Damage and HP per level +5% Drone MWD Velocity Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses +20% Medium Scout Drone Damage and HP +7.5% Armor Repair Amount per level
Drone Bandwidth 50Mbps and 200m3 Drone Bay RIP any reason to ever use a Gila again.
Blobskillz McBlub wrote: that would give you super OP medium drones. also I dont like that you are basically taking what makes the gila unique and slap it on another ship
yup, the 20% is too much, if it were reduced to 10% the gila would still be stronger and use less drones, where the ishtar would need to use 5 medium drones to match the gila.
EDIT: After looking at numbers again, the Gila gets a bonus to missile damage, where the Ishtar barely has the powergrid to fit an armor tank and any medium sized guns, so it would need a larger bonus to medium drone damage. |
Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family Advent of Fate
25
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:52:49 -
[76] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Blobskillz McBlub wrote: this change does not adress that. 100 man Ishtar blobs will still oneshot everything and outrun everything
There are better ways to drop 100 ships on someone and one-shot alpha them than using a ship that has to lock the target twice before firing. Your issue here is the 100 man fleet to start with.
there are ways to deal with slower big fleets. But you always run into trouble when you are trying to deal with big ishtar fleets. You cant outrun them, you cant outrange them, they got ridiculous base lock range and can apply their DPS over ranges where even battleships struggle to deal that much damage. In our recent fights with FCON we were lucky that we had Pizza on our side to help out with bomb runs otherwise we would have had almost no chance to win because they were simply able to field more Ishtars then we could reasonably deal with. |
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
566
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 14:55:59 -
[77] - Quote
Solving the wrong problem, IMO. The design of drones is more complex then mere DPS, and so is the problem of Ishtars Online. I refer to my post in the other sentry thread:
Ines Tegator wrote:Bouncer nerf misses the point. So does the announced Ishtar nerf of reducing the damage bonus.
Tracking is the problem. Sentries are a BS sized weapon systems. They should not be able to track frigates and cruisers at close range. Sub-BS hulls should not get tracking bonuses to them. With their native high tracking, PLUS the tracking bonus on many ship hulls, sentry drones can apply their BS sized DPS to medium sized or smaller ships, and do it without need for webs or target painters. This should not be possible.
Drones already offer the flexibility of being able to swap weapon class at will. No other weapon system can do this; it's part of their design and their key advantage. By carrying a stock of Light drones in their hold, even a BS can engage frigate sized targets. However, by changing your weapon class, you also change your DPS class. A Dominix using Light Drones is doing a fraction of it's DPS potential; this is a worthwhile tradeoff to hit small targets that would be able to speed tank you otherwise. Sentries don't need to make that tradeoff; that's why they are OP. Putting tracking bonuses on drone boats was a mistake that should never have been made; it sabotages the entire design philosophy of drones.
Without the tracking bonuses, sentries are no more powerful then equivalent BS guns. This is how it should be. Be able to down-class at will to engage a smaller target is already a huge advantage.
For reference, Garde II's can easily hit cruisers at 10-15km. That's huge for a gun that can also hit out to 40km optimals (50+ with falloff). For comparison, an Apocalypse with 8 Mega Pulse Laser II's and tracking mods gets similar performance - and the Apoc was SPECIFICALLY INTENDED to be a tracking/application battleship platform. Sentries do it by nature, on all platforms. Something is not adding up here.
Hitting the Ishtar's drone bay size is also called for - Ishtars can carry a full 3 flights of sentries, so they can drop sentries and run to gain the advantage of tracking targets from a distance. The VNI, in comparison, can carry one flight plus either a couple replacements, or a backup squad of light and mediums. This directly addresses the "drop and run" problem by making it a viable strategy to shoot the drones down.
Overhaul Dscan!
Make your own rules - Noobs to Null / Casual Vets Corp
|
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5888
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:00:40 -
[78] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:rsantos wrote:colera deldios wrote:@Jenn aSide I don't like the Ishtar but it pisses me off when CCP keeps doing these "balances" where they make no sense. Is Ishtar Op ? Sure. Is the DPS the problem.. Hell no.
It's like hey why take a look at what wrong with the ship let's just change 1 number and see what happens. The DPS IS a problem! Not many crusiers put out 600-700 dps much less at the insane ranges drone boats have. I have to sort of echo this. The problem is not the dps or the projection of the Ishtar. It's the fact that it can do both of those things better than any other ship in it's class, without sacrificing anything in fitting or options. That had to be addressed, and should have been a long time ago.
I agree, the problem is both DPS and application/projection. Both need addressed.
To be fully honest, I expected a better nerf to sentries themselves in the drone balance pass. Ishtars with sentries were in a pretty good place before they ever introduced the drone damage and tracking mods. Since that time, the ishtar hull got better (faster, tankier, smaller sig w/ MWD) and the sentries got better with drone mods.
Part of the problem is the Ishtar drone bonuses, and the other part is sentries themselves.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
|
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
566
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:02:50 -
[79] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:
Part of the problem is the Ishtar drone bonuses, and the other part is sentries themselves.
This cannot be said enough.
Overhaul Dscan!
Make your own rules - Noobs to Null / Casual Vets Corp
|
stoicfaux
5478
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:05:07 -
[80] - Quote
To fix damage projection, create Light Sentry Drones (medium size drones) with range that's more in line with cruiser sized weapons. Regular Sentry Drones become Heavy Sentry Drones and are usable only on BS, Carrier, etc. sized ships.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
|
stoicfaux
5478
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:07:15 -
[81] - Quote
Or just remove Sentry Drones from the Ishtar and instead give it a "MJD Drone Launcher" that allows the Ishtar to MJD heavy drones onto a target. Give the MJD Drone Launcher a one minute cooldown and/or reduce the Ishtar's bay size to prevent heavy drones from being treated as "ammo."
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Space Captain Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:08:36 -
[82] - Quote
The problem with ishtars and sentries is two part: Their battleship dps platform and the fact that they can get in close, deploy drones and kite out to max drone control range. What needs to happen is that with the further the ishtar is from their sentries, the less damage they do. ****, call it triangulation. If the range from the ishtar is greater than 1.5 the combined optimal/fall of their sentries there is a dps loss |
Nate rayward
Hail To The King 13 COILS
2
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:08:55 -
[83] - Quote
I feel the nerf will do nothing to the big fleets that you are attempting to stop. In my opinion this nerf will only hurt small gang/ solo pvp and pve and it was my understanding that you guys were promoting small gang fights by adding the jump fatigue, so why go and make a good ship crap for people who want to do the small stuff. Personally i feel like this does nothing to "separate" it in its own class its just makes it worse at everything. Try not to cripple the small guys here like everybody else has stated those fleets will just bring more ships and make up for it. I seen somebody put on here earlier that you should be able to warp to sentries and that seems viable as well as reducing the range you can be away from them. I dont want to see tracking of sentries nerf'd as once again i think that will cripple the pve perks of the ship. Keep in mind you still need to keep this ship more viable than the VNI as it is half the price. I also think it is very odd that with a "balance" you simply make the ship worthless. On the 07 episode one of the guys laughed at how bad the drake and hurricane was hit with the nerf bat.... really if you know the ships are that bad why leave them like that? Why spend so much time nerfing the good ships and not bumping up the crap ones. I think Hacs are supposed to be a stand out class do to their cost and skill required to fly them. If you continue to nerf the hacs out of their use people will just stop flying hacs and move on to something else and you will have a class of ships nobody buys. |
colera deldios
294
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:09:24 -
[84] - Quote
What I find disturbing is that wast majority of people have been discussing the problem with Ishtar for 3 months now both on forums and on reddit and 99.9% of the people agree that it's not the DPS but the targeting range/drone control range. And all this happened on threads CCP clearly observed and yet they announce a nerf to the Ishtar in an attribute that makes 0 sense.
- Reduce base targeting range
- Remove drone control range bonus
- Reduce CPU about -30 so you can't get away as easy with drone mods
- Slightly decrease base velocity or increase signature radius
And you are done nothing else needed. At the moment and even after this nerf only 2 ships that can stand against Ishtar is Tengu and Eagle (BS class can't except Machs but all you do then is get under the guns). It's not rational that you need 650m ship to take on a 250m and that is only for a limited time..
Seriously the Ishtar needs to be balanced as noted above so that it remains viable but that you can actually use it's class ships to take it on. It should depend on pilots/fc skills and situation to resolve to victory.
With those changes you have to suffer same problems as every other class. It does not make sense that Zealot or Eagle or Munin can't be used against the Ishtar. Just because Ishtars DPS will now be 500+ DPS it does not mean it wont **** both it's entire class as well as dominate T3 class as well as BS and above... |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
128
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:09:26 -
[85] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Would rather have seen the ishtar lose the sentries entirely.
Remove Sentry bonuses from the hull and add some thing else, +5% armour per lvl or bring back hybrid guns to it. 10% faloff of hybrid guns and 5% to damage. or 5% to speed and 5% to agility per lvl.
weekening damage bonus is just silly, better swap it for something else and move the ship to difrent meta than just nerfing it. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1433
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:09:34 -
[86] - Quote
The drone bay is still far too large. It's much more in-line with Amarr drone ships, not Gallente ones. Drop the drone bay down to 225-250, and killing the Ishtar's drones becomes a much more viable option.
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
|
stoicfaux
5478
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:10:24 -
[87] - Quote
On a side note, I've been away awhile, does the WiS store finally sell Asbestos Fire Suits? If so, we should pool our funds and buy one for CCP Rise.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
stoicfaux
5478
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:17:53 -
[88] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:What I find disturbing is that wast majority of people have been discussing the problem with Ishtar for 3 months now both on forums and on reddit and 99.9% of the people agree that it's not the DPS but the targeting range/drone control range. And all this happened on threads CCP clearly observed and yet they announce a nerf to the Ishtar in an attribute that makes 0 sense.
It's a management technique. If the peons cannot agree on a solution, then the manager offers(threatens) to implement something so bad/painful that the horrified peons hurriedly reach/agree_on a common solution that is imminently less painful.
OTOH, this is CCP Rise, so we may wind up with a Rapid Sentry Drone launcher for the Ishtar.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
579
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:18:33 -
[89] - Quote
Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:I'd much rather see the 5% to sentry bonuses get adjusted to something else, perhaps a bonus to heavy drone microwarpdrive speed? Makes them a little more aggressive in engaging and switching?
No, silly. We already have that and she is called Eos and her smaller sibleing is called Navy Vexor.
signature
|
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
566
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 15:25:27 -
[90] - Quote
Just for reference - has ANYONE agreed that DPS is the problem?
Anyone?
At all?
Cmon CCP. Notice that much at least.
Overhaul Dscan!
Make your own rules - Noobs to Null / Casual Vets Corp
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |