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Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Anime Masters Verge of Collapse
124
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Posted - 2015.02.27 19:26:11 -
[121] - Quote
So afk ratting ishtars dont get a nerf but ded/pvp fits do?
CCP Rise turning eve into afk botter dreamland.
Good to know you support the use of bots. |

Admiral Whatever
DeepSpace Manufacturers DeepSpace.
0
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Posted - 2015.02.27 19:43:06 -
[122] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:So afk ratting ishtars dont get a nerf but ded/pvp fits do?
CCP Rise turning eve into afk botter dreamland.
Good to know you support the use of bots.
Typical Anime Masters post.
Trash corp, TRASH opinions. |

Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
676
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Posted - 2015.02.27 19:47:38 -
[123] - Quote
Admiral Whatever wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:So afk ratting ishtars dont get a nerf but ded/pvp fits do?
CCP Rise turning eve into afk botter dreamland.
Good to know you support the use of bots. Typical Anime Masters post. Trash corp, TRASH opinions.
Typical alt poast, no opinion, no relevance, no value.
Look @ ur likes look at his)))))
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1605
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Posted - 2015.02.27 19:56:07 -
[124] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Admiral Whatever wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:So afk ratting ishtars dont get a nerf but ded/pvp fits do?
CCP Rise turning eve into afk botter dreamland.
Good to know you support the use of bots. Typical Anime Masters post. Trash corp, TRASH opinions. Typical alt poast, no opinion, no relevance, no value. Look @ ur likes look at his)))))
Do we really have to start a pissing contest about likes being somewhat related to shitpost or can we just agree CCP didn't do that to support botting? |

Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Anime Masters Verge of Collapse
127
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Posted - 2015.02.27 19:58:15 -
[125] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:Admiral Whatever wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:So afk ratting ishtars dont get a nerf but ded/pvp fits do?
CCP Rise turning eve into afk botter dreamland.
Good to know you support the use of bots. Typical Anime Masters post. Trash corp, TRASH opinions. Typical alt poast, no opinion, no relevance, no value. Look @ ur likes look at his))))) Do we really have to start a pissing contest about likes being somewhat related to shitpost or can we just agree CCP didn't do that to support botting?
Naw rise got those strong bribes to make this "rebalence" |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1605
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 20:02:00 -
[126] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:Admiral Whatever wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:So afk ratting ishtars dont get a nerf but ded/pvp fits do?
CCP Rise turning eve into afk botter dreamland.
Good to know you support the use of bots. Typical Anime Masters post. Trash corp, TRASH opinions. Typical alt poast, no opinion, no relevance, no value. Look @ ur likes look at his))))) Do we really have to start a pissing contest about likes being somewhat related to shitpost or can we just agree CCP didn't do that to support botting? Naw rise got those strong bribes to make this "rebalence"
If you think he's getting bribes, you should raise this point to internal affair instead of shitting up the forum. |

Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Anime Masters Verge of Collapse
129
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Posted - 2015.02.27 20:08:48 -
[127] - Quote
The people have a right to know friend. |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1605
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 20:11:21 -
[128] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:The people have a right to know friend.
People won't know unless internal affair put their nose into it. At best people might think of your theory as plausible while others will dismiss it. If internal affair finds any wrongdoing, you can be sure the people will know. |

Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Anime Masters Verge of Collapse
129
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Posted - 2015.02.27 20:13:01 -
[129] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:The people have a right to know friend. People won't know unless internal affair put their nose into it. At best people might think of your theory as plausible while others will dismiss it. If internal affair finds any wrongdoing, you can be sure the people will know.
The ccp police force is corrupt as BoB,
Remember spawning of t2 bpos?
Well they obv spawned ishtar bpos for the cfc. |

Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
676
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 20:14:44 -
[130] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:The people have a right to know friend. People won't know unless internal affair put their nose into it. At best people might think of your theory as plausible while others will dismiss it. If internal affair finds any wrongdoing, you can be sure the people will know. The ccp police force is corrupt as BoB, Remember spawning of t2 bpos? Well they obv spawned ishtar bpos for the cfc.
My god anime masters should be deleted
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1605
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Posted - 2015.02.27 20:17:59 -
[131] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:The people have a right to know friend. People won't know unless internal affair put their nose into it. At best people might think of your theory as plausible while others will dismiss it. If internal affair finds any wrongdoing, you can be sure the people will know. The ccp police force is corrupt as BoB, Remember spawning of t2 bpos? Well they obv spawned ishtar bpos for the cfc.
INternal affairs didn't exist when T20 spawned the BPOs... |

Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Anime Masters Verge of Collapse
129
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 20:18:51 -
[132] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:The people have a right to know friend. People won't know unless internal affair put their nose into it. At best people might think of your theory as plausible while others will dismiss it. If internal affair finds any wrongdoing, you can be sure the people will know. The ccp police force is corrupt as BoB, Remember spawning of t2 bpos? Well they obv spawned ishtar bpos for the cfc. INternal affairs didn't exist when T20 spawned the BPOs...
Ohh they were there m8 but rise was the lead detective. |

Ereilian
Mythic Inc Gentlemen's.Parlor
70
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Posted - 2015.02.27 20:26:18 -
[133] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:The people have a right to know friend. People won't know unless internal affair put their nose into it. At best people might think of your theory as plausible while others will dismiss it. If internal affair finds any wrongdoing, you can be sure the people will know. The ccp police force is corrupt as BoB, Remember spawning of t2 bpos? Well they obv spawned ishtar bpos for the cfc. INternal affairs didn't exist when T20 spawned the BPOs... Ohh they were there m8 but rise was the lead detective.
In Before Doomheim. |

Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Anime Masters Verge of Collapse
129
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 20:34:30 -
[134] - Quote
Confirming you can 100% be permbanned for talking on eve-o.
#metagame |

Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 20:42:26 -
[135] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:Just for reference - has ANYONE agreed that DPS is the problem?
Anyone?
At all?
Cmon CCP. Notice that much at least.
So many people keep saying that sentries are doing BS DPS and complaining that the Ishtar has it. So indirectly CCP is seeing lots of comments complaining about the amount of damage that Sentries do. So nerfing the damage is addressing every single post that says Ishtar does BS DPS. Get people to stop complaining about the DPS and maybe I will agree that it is not a factor.
There are also some posting here that are clearly against the drone weapon system in general and are making it harder to constructively talk about a single ship being balanced.
When you look at the Ishatar bonuses, it is clear that it was designed to use Sentries and Heavies as the main weapon system. Unless CCP feels that ship is utterly broken then there are 2 ways to address "BS DPS" with excellent application, nerf the DPS to sub BS (as proposed) and leave excellent application or leave the BS DPS and nerf the application. If you nerf both, without buffing the ship elsewhere, then you could break the ship and CCP has probably learned that is not a desirable outcome.
CCP has to balance around more than large scale PvP. The fact that a fleet can offset a DPS nerf with more ships has nothing to do with ship balance. Drone boats are unique, it is part of why Dominix are a popular meta when bombers are not around.
I like drones, always have, I don't want to see them or a drone boat nerfed into oblivion. All HACs need to be excellent ships. And clearly the dominant role of the Ishtar doctrine shows it is superior in fleet combat. So let's compare it to other HACs.
- When you pull up all the HACs the Ishtar is the slowest already (185m/s), for those complaining about its base speed.
- Its base targeting range is middle of the road 80km only better than the Sacrilege 70KM and Zealot 75KM, the other HACS range from 80 to 95KM.
- Those that want larger signature: it has the 2nd largest already, 145m. Deimos is 150m.
- Fitting: It has the worst power grid and CPU among HAC 780MW power and 340 TF CPU.
EDIT: All stats taken from EveUniversity Wiki
SO the only thing special about an Ishtar is its unique weapon system and how that is bonused. Any talk about balancing this ship should revolve around these bonuses.
I'll post my ideas about that in another post. |

Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
686
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 20:47:54 -
[136] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:This will achieve the goal of making Ishtars less useful, but unfortunately does nothing to make other ships useful. Range and speed are overpowered in EVE, and only doctrines with damage projection and mobility work.
In other words, people will just use the next platform that outranges others while remaining mobile, leaving whole shipclasses gathering dust in hangars.
Not empty quoting. |

Solairen
Matsuko Holding
217
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 21:06:53 -
[137] - Quote
I see lots of people saying just remove Sentries from Ishtar because BS weapon on a HAC doesn't make sense. HAC = HEAVY Assault Cruiser, so being a size up in weapons actually does make a lot of sense.
No body is talking about nerfing Navy Vexor, which is basically a poor mans Ishtar. It can field Sentires and no one cares. So adjust the number of Sentries the Ishtar can carry a call it a day.
If you remove the Sentries I really want to see something different to keep it as a Drone HAC. Maybe give it a drone control unit so it can fly 6 L/M/H instead of the normal 5. Something though that it's not another gun boat, and still fits it's title of "HEAVY" Assault Cruiser.
Maybe limit it to Garde only, shortest drange Sentry, so the it's rails have a longer range than the sentries. Easy Lore sell, as the ship system can only handle Gallente Drones, something about interface for BS weapons on a cruiser.... yada yada. |

Insidious
Hax.
6
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 21:17:30 -
[138] - Quote
medium sentries for ishtars heavy sentries for bs and capitals also nerf drone modules, dont just gimp the damn thing, it would nerf the ishtar popular usage and not outright gimp the tactic. |

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4339
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 21:45:19 -
[139] - Quote
Cleaned up the thread a bit. Keep it on topic and civil. Thanks.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 22:10:30 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:In Scylla we are deploying a set of high-impact balance changes.
This thread is for discussing a proposed changed to the Ishtar. We are planning to split it's drone damage bonus in to two bonuses so that we can lower the bonus to sentry damage. It would look like this:
Old bonus: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage
New bonus: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Light, Medium and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage
This change is being made to encourage diversity in ship choice across EVE. The Ishtar has proven strong enough with its current bonus set to dominate in many environments and we want to make sure there is plenty of room for ship choice other than the Ishtar. We came to this decision using a combination of internal metrics, community feedback and by using EFT like everyone else.
Too much? Too little? Let us know.
This is a good a approach, keep the ship design as is and tweak existing bonuses to reduce the effectiveness of the ship. This change brings the damage output better in line with what a HAC should be capable of. There are not a lot of options available without overly nerfing the hull, changing the design of sentry drones, or the design of the Ishtar.
If in the end, it is decided that the sentry bonuses are too strong on this platform and need to be removed, I would propose making the Ishtar a very strong mobile drones platform instead.
New Ishtar (Non Sentry):
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 7.5% bonus to Light, Medium, and Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light, Medium, and Heavy Drone damage
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 5000m bonus to Drone operation range 20% bonus to Drone health points
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty
Resulting Changes: Light and Medium drones get the speed and tracking bonus like the Heavy already has. HP bonus moved to HAC level and doubled allowing all drones, since they are forced to brawl, to be tougher.
OR Change it to be like the Heavy Drone version of the Gila
New Ishtar (Heavy Drones):
Drone Capacity: 300 m-¦ Drone Bandwith: 75 Mbit/sec
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 7.5% bonus Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Drone damage and HP
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 5000m bonus to Drone operation range 100% bonus to Heavy Drone damage and health points
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty
Resulting change: Max heavy drones down from 5 to 3 but each one is stronger and tougher. The damage remains the same old 1.5 x 5 = 7.5 vs new 2.5 x 3 =7.5. And perhaps some of these numbers actually should be higher to compensate for the loss Sentry bonuses.
I'd hate to see Sentries removed from cruisers as they are also used on VNI and Stratios. But If CCP moves in that direction, please don't abandon the unique and specialized drone boats. Balance by buffing them up in some areas to compensate for any nerf you apply.
The last option is to go the way of a mixed weapon system, which is a bit unfair to those not adequately trained for a 2nd system, but there you have it. Remove the sentry bonus and add a bonus for Medium Hybrid turrets. I don't like this option myself, but this thread is to look at options. |
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Quesa
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
50
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 22:14:33 -
[141] - Quote
Tracking needs to be addressed. Even with a small drop in overall DPS, they will still apply BS level damage with Medium gun tracking. |

MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
32
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 22:20:45 -
[142] - Quote
Fighters warping to supers/carriers is a very nice quality of life thing for capital pilots. Since the intended target of the nerf is a very specific style of gameplay, it would be nice if recovery of drones wasn't collateral damage. |

Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 22:23:30 -
[143] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote:Fighters warping to supers/carriers is a very nice quality of life thing for capital pilots. Since the intended target of the nerf is a very specific style of gameplay, it would be nice if recovery of drones wasn't collateral damage.
I like that idea. |

Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
305
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 22:24:11 -
[144] - Quote
Thank you CCP for daring to bring a solution for this whole Ishtar mess. Let's see how can we all together find the most optimal solution.
So far there seem to be some pretty important points:
- Ishtar can deal very high DPS for its size by using sentries. - At the same time, it can apply that DPS thanks to its tracking bonus. - It is able to have an impressive tank, being a drone ship AND having lots of CPU/PW.
While the damage change proposed by CCP would reduce a bit their performance on solo Ishtars or small gangs, several people have stated it won't have that much of an impact on very large fleets, since you can always bring more of them to cover the DPS loss.
For me, some changes that would reduce its performance to more acceptable levels would be:
- Keep the sentry damage reduction. - Reduce, or remove, the tracking bonus for sentries. - Reduce its CPU/PW to levels comparable to its cousin HAC's. - Reduce its dronebay to BC levels (Myrmidon, Prophecy).
Combining all of these changes, I think the Ishtar would end much more in level to other HAC's on terms of overall performance, without nerfing it to the ground (we all know that nerfing things too much makes them utterly useless, and might even take with them a weapon system, as happened with the Drake).
Some people have even proposed to completely remove sentries from the game. Personally I would prefer them to stay: I've used them for a long time on the Dominix, and I doubt removing stuff from games is a good move. When you look at it, however, maybe it wouldn't be that bad. Drone ships would need to land their drones on their targets, and maybe there could be Gecko-like superheavy drones to offer more options for drone users. Even, the current purpose of sentries as deployable turrets could be taken by actual deployable structures with a big ol' gun on top.
I hope the changes I posted above are enough, though, and we don't need to remove sentries from anywhere. |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1434
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 22:36:50 -
[145] - Quote
Finally.
The Tears Must Flow
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Azure Wyvern
Origin.
15
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 22:39:34 -
[146] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:well this wasn't the 5 m/s nerf to its speed i was expecting but it's still clearly a "terrified of making too big a change that there's no chance of it going far enough" change (like the last ishtar nerf). at least it's a little bigger than the last one.
I dont like to see a ship that is over-powered in large scale pvp environments destroyed when the ishtar is backbone for alot of people to make their isk... Your removing DPS from sentries when on a 200 ship scale is almost nothing.. On the other hand makes a huge difference when Im running sites with 2 of them... The problem is not me using them to make isk.. its to "try" and make alliances use something else.. the ishtar is too good? or all your other ships are not good or specilaized enough? Id be perfectly fine with my sentries only able to hit out to 40km.. or have to pull them in and put out lights or mediums to combat smaller ships because sentries cannot track anything but cruisers up.. but to cripple the only useful HAC in the game down because people are sick of fighting them.. honestly makes no sense.
This is not fixing the problem and only hurts the "usefullness" of the ship in every other aspect than why your actually nerfing it to begin with. i.e sentry tracking + range (is all you need to touch)
CARNAGE TO ALL
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zomgwtfbbq
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 23:13:04 -
[147] - Quote
As someone who loves running PVE encounters with my isthar im worried that this change will have a large negative impact on my ability to clear low sec encounters in a timly manner. Clearing certain sites & missions already poses an interesting challenge for a single ishtar; entering a room and trying to burn away before you get popped is quite exhilarating and im worried that with this change that the Ishtar will no longer be able to perform this role and I'll have to move onto a t3 setup as bringing a domi(slow) or rattlesnake(expensive) isnt such a wise decision.
Tl;dr> You're hurting the ishtar in all forms of gameplay and not just PVP. I'd love to see an additional bonus so heavies are more attractive to use on the isthar would be a good addition. |

Crysantos Callahan
Control-Space DARKNESS.
30
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 23:17:07 -
[148] - Quote
Azure Wyvern wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:well this wasn't the 5 m/s nerf to its speed i was expecting but it's still clearly a "terrified of making too big a change that there's no chance of it going far enough" change (like the last ishtar nerf). at least it's a little bigger than the last one. I dont like to see a ship that is over-powered in large scale pvp environments destroyed when the ishtar is backbone for alot of people to make their isk... Your removing DPS from sentries when on a 200 ship scale is almost nothing.. On the other hand makes a huge difference when Im running sites with 2 of them... The problem is not me using them to make isk.. its to "try" and make alliances use something else.. the ishtar is too good? or all your other ships are not good or specilaized enough? Id be perfectly fine with my sentries only able to hit out to 40km.. or have to pull them in and put out lights or mediums to combat smaller ships because sentries cannot track anything but cruisers up.. but to cripple the only useful HAC in the game down because people are sick of fighting them.. honestly makes no sense. This is not fixing the problem and only hurts the "usefullness" of the ship in every other aspect than why your actually nerfing it to begin with. i.e sentry tracking + range (is all you need to touch) why does everything need to be compared to its equivilant ship class?
Or maybe the "only useful" HAC ingame is totally unbalanced in comparison to the other HACs, it's not crippling them but more getting them "in line" with the rest of them. Most people in here ask for changes that wouldn't cripple your PVE ishtar but weaken its current role as jack of all trades ;)
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Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars Khanid's Legion
253
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 23:35:36 -
[149] - Quote
How about 0% bonus to Sentry HP/damage? I don't see any other HAC's with bonuses to large/BC/BS weapons. |

Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 23:50:13 -
[150] - Quote
Terra Chrall wrote:
- When you pull up all the HACs the Ishtar is the slowest already (185m/s), for those complaining about its base speed.
- Its base targeting range is middle of the road 80km only better than the Sacrilege 70KM and Zealot 75KM, the other HACS range from 80 to 95KM.
- Those that want larger signature: it has the 2nd largest already, 145m. Deimos is 150m.
- Fitting: It has the worst power grid and CPU among HAC 780MW power and 340 TF CPU.
EDIT: All stats taken from EveUniversity Wiki
You nerfed Bounchers (-6km optimal. Nerfed the whole drone ships in the game) and now you nerfing ishtar. From bounchers nerf, now, the drones will work at deep fall off, so less DPS Already. I wouldnt suprise if dps drop to high 500ish to low 600ish and that is unacceptable for Dominix and others drone BSes.
So, ishtar now woll have 500-600 dps, but thats ok for you. A Rail deimos with 5x 250mm rails can be around 530-600DPS, but now you nerfing rails too. From the above it seems you targeting the whole Gallente fleet.
I m against these nerfs. |
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