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Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
199
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:34:49 -
[271] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:What is binding is Scripture, and Scripture defines that only Holders have spiritual authority to own slaves.
And Amarr does hold the monopoly. No other nation has any right to engage in the practice.
Only because we are a bit to civilized to want the "right" It doesn't actually matter are you for slavery or against, CONCORD spits on every nations ideals, traditions, laws etc. and no one makes a peep.
Where are all those freedom loving gallente with their visions of freedom and liberty for every man or all this ends when CONCORD money get in your pockets? Where are all those brave matari who will not stop until each and every of "their" people are free or all those people on SCC markets became not "yours" all of a sudden? Where are all those honorable caldari who value their State laws and won't let anything or anyone break them? Where are all those proud and just amarr who know the true path and not afraid to follow it or the only one left are hypocrites who will more gladly accuse their own of heresy than stand against CONCORD greed?
All of your great laws, high ideals and traditions mean nothing when they can be broken in your stations and in your own space 'cause of some treaty.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2189
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:49:15 -
[272] - Quote
Lord Mokk,
In the interests of diplomacy, I shall offer only the following in response to your comments:
I disagree.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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The Leopardess
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.08.15 08:09:14 -
[273] - Quote
Oh, but even us devout Amarrians defy scripture all the time. Everyone is sinful, and causing suffering which is completely under the control of God is not as big of a sin as denying God for example. I am up in arms about that, and you all should be too.
No one should pick and choose priorities based on pet vanities, clearly everyone who is so obsessed with abolishing one of our most time-honored traditions loves the delicious feeling of superiority when they denounce slavers. This sort of false morality is governed by self-righteousness instead of the righteousness of God.
One should always prioritize based on the gravity of the sin, and using force against another human being as long as it doesn't involve killing them or preventing them from praying is just a little bit of a sin when it is done by the irreligious. If they are God-fearing it is not as bad as a non-slaver who promotes vigorously the falsehood of their precious "freedom" like in the Gallente Federation.
Khanid is a part of Amarr and their voice in the matter has to be accounted for as they were chosen by God very early on at the dawn of the Great Crusade, this is undeniable. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2196
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Posted - 2015.08.15 08:22:18 -
[274] - Quote
The Leopardess wrote:No one should pick and choose priorities based on pet vanities, clearly everyone who is so obsessed with abolishing one of our most time-honored traditions loves the delicious feeling of superiority when they denounce slavers. This sort of false morality is governed by self-righteousness instead of the righteousness of God.
This petition has absolutely nothing to do with abolition. It is about restoring our traditional values, by eliminating the liberal business practices that have allowed non-Holders to own slaves. Scripture clearly defines the divine rights of Holders, among which is the sole ownership of slaves. This is a tradition that must be reclaimed. Commoners and foreigners have no right to own slaves.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Utari Onzo
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
603
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Posted - 2015.08.15 08:30:02 -
[275] - Quote
Sinti Vailatti wrote:Ok, granted I've been out of the loop for a few years.
Given my previous status as a slave of the Empire, I would like to just put here the last official statement I remember from the Ministry of Internal Order:
"1) It is not illegal for capsuleers to transport slaves as cargo within the Empire. 2) It is not illegal for Holders to place their slaves on the open market within the Empire. 3) The SCC-controlled and maintained interstellar marketplace is considered a legal open market by the Empire due to CONCORD treaties. 4) It is not illegal for individuals of all social standing within the Empire to purchase goods and services off an open market. 5) The SCC does not mandate any restrictions based on social standing on any transactions that occur on its interstellar marketplace.
"I can only comment on the base legality of the situation, but am unable to provide commentary on the social, moral, or ethical implications of capsuleers of non-Holder birth who own slaves." -Grand Inquisitor Ohrud Omel.
Quoted with all due respects. Apologies if I've missed any official Imperial change since this was written (YC: 115).
If you have a problem with Slavery and open markets, take it up with CONCORD. Amarr doesn't hold a monopoly on the market and every other government signed off on this.
It should also be noted that slavery is different in Khanid, but the above regulations with the SCC are equally binding.
This sounds more and more and more like legal loopholes created from the Empire's association with CONCORD. I fully endorse the SCC markets as a wealth generating and growth supporting enterprise, but in the matter of the sale of slaves that really should be taken off the SCC markets and out of the hands of people like Nauplius.
A re-evaluation of the Empire's treaties and relationship with CONCORD might be in order to prevent this practice from continuing, but that is for our betters to initiate.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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The Leopardess
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.08.15 08:32:01 -
[276] - Quote
I don't know if you noticed this, but, there are a lot of other traditional Amarrian values the merchants in those markets have not adopted.
It's still illegal in Amarr, but since when have our laws ever stopped the Godless?
This is like battling an ocean of sin with a hairdryer. The root of the evil is not in this action of selling slaves, it is merely a symptom of a greater sin of not recognizing God's authority and Amarrian authority.
I am more concerned with research and development of warfare technology to permit Amarrians to reclaim the Godless, rather than playing their game on their terms.
I spit on petitions! |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2196
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 08:38:44 -
[277] - Quote
Because this isn't about those markets. This is about our markets. About people who are governed under Scriptural law who refuse to uphold it. The Civic Court and the Ammatar Consulate, both who freely and willingly engage in the sale of slaves to commoners and foreigners in defiance of Scripture and traditional laws. Both who try to cite international law to validate their liberal business practices when the laws they should be concerning themselves with is God's Law.
The fact that someone like myself, a commoner of minmatar descent and former slave, the absolute furthest thing from being a Holder, can go to a Civic Court station in Amarr space and freely purchase slaves from an Imperial institution, is utterly despicable. That is what this is about.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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The Leopardess
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.08.15 09:29:52 -
[278] - Quote
But you're not going to the Civic Court station and buying slaves. That's your choice. People may choose to sin all the time, that doesn't mean we should analyze ever transaction that happens.
I can't be bothered to go pick up slaves my mother assigns me, and I wouldn't appreciate having to personally travel to the middle of nowhere, interrupting my work in the war machine to have to somehow micromanage slave transactions. She certainly would NOT appreciate having to go there herself either and would probably just reassign holdership as a proxy to someone who would then spend all of their time managing slave transactions in person. Does that sound like Amarrian tradition?
We are granted authority by God, not restrictions based on the shortcomings of others. I will not be bound by this.
This is just going to restrict progress, business, technological advancement and make for longer waits in the holding areas for the slaves.
When my agents go to the markets they are buying more than slaves, and since slaves are replaced so infrequently it is simply not practical to just buy slaves, they need to be in the broader market just for the sake of convenience.
I am not going to have my businesses suffer because some unauthorized and lawless person might see fit to take Sin upon him or herself. That is between them, God and the Inquisition or Concord, whichever jurisdiction they fall under, once that act is committed. |
Thornir
Litla Sundlaugin
10
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Posted - 2015.08.15 09:31:47 -
[279] - Quote
Signed.
The right to slaves are only to be held by Holders.
FC? Hello. Warp to me! I am here!
In Game blog
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The Leopardess
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 09:41:34 -
[280] - Quote
Thornir wrote:Signed.
The right to slaves are only to be held by Holders.
That's not what the "petition" is about. Actually it's not even a well written petition it's just a paragraph from a liberal fruit dictating to Holders how they should conduct business in Amarr.
If every slave in the markets had a Holder standing right next to them they still wouldn't be happy. |
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2196
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 09:48:04 -
[281] - Quote
The Leopardess wrote:But you're not going to the Civic Court station and buying slaves. That's your choice. People may choose to sin all the time, that doesn't mean we should analyze ever transaction that happens.
But we should.
You promote slavery while in the same words oppose it. You say that people should be allowed the freedom to choose to sin or not, while supporting an institution for which the purpose is to shackle people and prevent them from engaging in sinful behavior.
Few people can be trusted to uphold righteous behavior on their own will. Restrictions and laws must be enforced to prevent people from allowing themselves to fall to temptation and sin. God demands that His Will be obeyed, and it is our duty as His servants to enforce His Will on those who would refuse Him.
Quote:I can't be bothered to go pick up slaves my mother assigns me, and I wouldn't appreciate having to personally travel to the middle of nowhere, interrupting my work in the war machine to have to somehow micromanage slave transactions.
But you wouldn't have to. Custodians and slavers given license to act as an official representative of their Holder's will is not in opposition of God. What is in opposition is people void of any such official capacity or even Amarrian nationality being permitted to make slave transactions. That is what must be stopped.
Quote:This is just going to restrict progress, business, technological advancement
Then let it. Upholding righteous behavior and spiritual prudence is more important than material wealth.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2196
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 09:50:52 -
[282] - Quote
The Leopardess wrote:Thornir wrote:Signed.
The right to slaves are only to be held by Holders. That's not what the "petition" is about. Actually it's not even a well written petition it's just a paragraph from a liberal fruit dictating to Holders how they should conduct business in Amarr. If every slave in the markets had a Holder standing right next to them they still wouldn't be happy.
You're the one promoting liberal economic interests over enforcement of traditional values.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1313
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 11:51:22 -
[283] - Quote
I am not sure to understand how the lack of slaves restrict progress, business and technological advancement... |
The Leopardess
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 13:06:32 -
[284] - Quote
This is clearly a pet cause of your Samira, I'm sure brought on by your personal experiences. People who are not Holders are already NOT permitted to buy slaves. If such a one does then of course they should be punished.
War is and always will be at the forefront of my family's concerns, not the freeing or comfort of slaves. War demands weapons, and weapons demand raw materials created or mined partially by slaves like the ones working in my mines and factories. It is glorious combat that will enforce righteousness. This is not glorious combat. This is bureaucracy!
You are saying that Holders are somehow currently breaking with scripture by facilitating the ease of putting slaves to honest and Godly work. There is no better work that contributes to the glory of the Amarr, which is the glory of God in the material world, than the work my family and other honorable hard working Holder families puts them towards. We work as hard as our slaves, if not harder.
Furthermore you are saying that we should enforce His Will. I am saying that to enforce that Will, laws have to have been broken. Even if a non-holder should purchase a slave, it may be that that non-holder will deliver it to a Godly market where they know proper Holder will give them a fair price and thus I believe they redeem themselves. I would not punish such a one.
That would be a very minor sin. There are greater sins, for example, fighting against Amarrian people in rebelliousness. I don't see any Amarrians complaining about that sin.
This isn't a "petition" to punish someone who has broken His Law or Man's Law. This is a "petition" to force unnecessary hardship specifically on Amarrian businessmen of the Holder class.
Restricting the passage of slaves through the Empire like this will only hurt my business and the business of other Holders. hurting business for Amarr hurts the War effort, and hurting the War effort is an affront to God's will! |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2200
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 13:17:38 -
[285] - Quote
As someone who actually fights in the war, I'd appreciate you not telling me what does or does not hurt the war effort.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Sinjin Mokk
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
500
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 14:57:06 -
[286] - Quote
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:Scripture clearly states that only Holders may own slaves.
Samira Kernher wrote:Lord Mokk,
In the interests of diplomacy, I shall offer only the following in response to your comments:
I disagree.
My Ladies,
Perhaps we do things a bit differently in Khanid. Actually, I'm sure we do.
I was raised to believe in the Law of the Conservation Energy, their Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch and when a Grand Inquisitor or the Council makes a ruling on something, you do NOT argue.
Ms. Vailatti's quote is older, but it is authentic. You may say it's wrong if you like but I'm not going to suggest a Grand Inquisitor does not know what he's talking about in an open forum. Until the Order or the Council redacts and clarifies the issue further I'm going to work under the assumption that they know what they're talking about.
Traditionally, Slaves were the responsibility of Holders alone. Traditions change. Laws change. Treaties change. I'll abide by the decisions of my betters in the Order. I pray all members of the Empire, no matter how Liberal or Conservative follow suit. Now is the time for solidarity, not division.
Slavery in the Kingdom and the Empire is not going to change through our actions. To suggest otherwise is an exercise in ego and futility.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2201
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 15:20:20 -
[287] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:Ms. Vailatti's quote is older, but it is authentic. You may say it's wrong if you like but I'm not going to suggest a Grand Inquisitor does not know what he's talking about in an open forum. Until the Order or the Council redacts and clarifies the issue further I'm going to work under the assumption that they know what they're talking about.
I haven't said that the honorable grand inquisitor's statement is wrong.
What I have said is the fact that things are as he has said goes against the divine rights of Holders as written in Scripture, and that this should be rectified.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1316
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 15:23:49 -
[288] - Quote
I think you are right in that there might be a little apparent inconsistency, but I think just asking politely why would probably achieve more than just accusing the Civic Court again of... what, if Scripture violation ? Heresy ? Sin ? |
Shaddam Daphiti
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 16:10:02 -
[289] - Quote
I too will humbly lend my signature to this.
Much suffering and pain has resulted from allowing a Holy and Sacred rite of passage and guidance to become an economic farce as it has on the open markets.
The actions of the Witch Nauplius, whose attempts at sorcery earn him that title, are testament enough that we have strayed from the design of The Most Holy.
It is long since time this was corrected, Amen. |
Sinti Vailatti
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
19
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 16:55:28 -
[290] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Sinjin Mokk wrote:Ms. Vailatti's quote is older, but it is authentic. You may say it's wrong if you like but I'm not going to suggest a Grand Inquisitor does not know what he's talking about in an open forum. Until the Order or the Council redacts and clarifies the issue further I'm going to work under the assumption that they know what they're talking about. I haven't said that the honorable grand inquisitor's statement is wrong. What I have said is the fact that things are as he has said goes against the divine rights of Holders as written in Scripture, and that this should be rectified.
"... this should be rectified."
Um...that's actually saying he's wrong dear.
Including everything you've said beforehand.
We're a lot alike. So take the protip. Nod, smile and keep your opinions off GalNet.
I think we can agree that CONCORD's view of slavery is wrong. When people start saying the Empire is wrong with it is how people end up in a cleansing pit.
Until such a time as the King or Empress says otherwise, the treaties involved were signed for a reason and we must publicly support that 'k? |
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
381
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 17:11:59 -
[291] - Quote
Hmm, I wonder, who's sockpuppet is this? Or potentially third-leg sleeve, for that matter. It smells a little too much like someone... familiar. |
Goldfinch
House Rkard
248
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 17:27:16 -
[292] - Quote
Sinti Vailatti wrote:Um...that's actually saying he's wrong dear.
We respectfully point out that your tone, Ms. Valatti seems uncomfortably close to being disrespectful.
Some of the legal interpretations in this conversation cause us to shudder. We will attempt to offer our amicus opinion instead:
1. The Scripture is very clear about Holders and Holders alone having the right to own slaves. "Own" in this case, is finishing a business transaction at the end of which one comes to legally assume claim of property.
2. The Ministry of Internal Order statement is not rewriting Scripture. In fact, neither the MIO nor the Inquisitor has the authority to rewrite Scripture at all, Scripture which quite literally backs our Statement One. As the faithful, we would be forced to question any interpretation that extends the right of slave ownership to non-Holders, even an interpretation made surreptitiously by the MIO.
3. The Empire's entrance into CONCORD requires certain civic policies that The Empress, and by extension the Ministry must declare as law. This is exactly what Grand Inquisitor Omel is stating. If he was interpreting Scripture, he would have clearly stated so, thus it is our conclusion that he is not discussing a Scriptural matter at all.
4. The Amarr need not offer any apologies for having a more narrow and conservative view of Scripture and Theological Law. Lieutenant Kernher's view is the classic Amarr view on the matter, and this type of belief withstands any Inquisitory scrunity by benefit of its own piety.
The open rules about SCC transactions is a legal burden to bear by The Empress and The Ministry, but it does not mean that CONCORD membership for Empire comes with no moral cost. The moral cost is that we would have to avert our eyes from Scripture to accept the legality of the SCC. We are not sure why this point is under debate at all.
veiled and bound
my origin story (on R109)
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Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
202
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 17:34:01 -
[293] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:Sinti Vailatti wrote:Ok, granted I've been out of the loop for a few years.
Given my previous status as a slave of the Empire, I would like to just put here the last official statement I remember from the Ministry of Internal Order:
"1) It is not illegal for capsuleers to transport slaves as cargo within the Empire. 2) It is not illegal for Holders to place their slaves on the open market within the Empire. 3) The SCC-controlled and maintained interstellar marketplace is considered a legal open market by the Empire due to CONCORD treaties. 4) It is not illegal for individuals of all social standing within the Empire to purchase goods and services off an open market. 5) The SCC does not mandate any restrictions based on social standing on any transactions that occur on its interstellar marketplace.
"I can only comment on the base legality of the situation, but am unable to provide commentary on the social, moral, or ethical implications of capsuleers of non-Holder birth who own slaves." -Grand Inquisitor Ohrud Omel.
Quoted with all due respects. Apologies if I've missed any official Imperial change since this was written (YC: 115).
If you have a problem with Slavery and open markets, take it up with CONCORD. Amarr doesn't hold a monopoly on the market and every other government signed off on this.
It should also be noted that slavery is different in Khanid, but the above regulations with the SCC are equally binding.
This sounds more and more and more like legal loopholes created from the Empire's association with CONCORD. I fully endorse the SCC markets as a wealth generating and growth supporting enterprise, but in the matter of the sale of slaves that really should be taken off the SCC markets and out of the hands of people like Nauplius. A re-evaluation of the Empire's treaties and relationship with CONCORD might be in order to prevent this practice from continuing, but that is for our betters to initiate. Indeed.
A few years back there was this big so-called "contract" between interBus and CONCORD with quite peculiar loophole in there. It doesn't need to be explained how it all ended and who is getting all those transaction tax money now. Wasn't the first time CONCORD is playing this two-faced game and it won't be the last if there is no one to stop them.
And about our betters, remember what happened in YC117.05.29 and ask yourself why should we honor treaties that were built on deceit and with such entity? Our betters already lead us by example we just have to follow in their footsteps.
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Aeon Amadii
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 17:44:05 -
[294] - Quote
I wonder what the IGS would debate about if slavery were not... a thing...
On the one hand you have the practicioners of a maladjusticed sense of social justice and on the other you have these abnormal Amarrians who apparently find great value in not having to mop their own floors. It's an endless debate really and of course I have no weight on either side but I am greatly amused at the thought of what could replace the infinite topic generator that is indentured servitude...
Who knows, maybe we'd actually get some real world problems ironed out.
(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)
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Sinjin Mokk
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
501
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 18:29:39 -
[295] - Quote
My associate, Ms. Vailatti and I have tried to be respectful of the positions and friendships we share with those who have posted in this thread.
So let me speak in a plainer tone.
This is not the decadent Federation where all are alleged to be equal. This is not the corrupt Republic where your status as an elder means you're somehow more wise than someone who is younger. This is not Curse where "right" is measured by "force." This is not even the State where you are judged on your merits.
This is Amarr. The Empire. For good or ill, the Empire has made certain laws and treaties with CONCORD. So too, has the Kingdom of Khanid. Your opinions do not matter. Your petitions do not matter. Your interpretation of Scripture does not matter. Your feelings do not matter. Fairness does not matter. Justice does not matter. Pride does not matter.
The only thing that matters is your obedience.
The MIO has stated emphatically the Empire's position on slavery. I see no sign of a change in that position.
I have previously pointed out the legal differences between the Kingdom and the Empire and made mention of how slavery is done in the lawless reaches of NullSec. There is no indication that these systems will change either.
Challenge the rot that is CONCORD all you want.
Obey Amarr.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2208
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 18:37:49 -
[296] - Quote
I will repeat, this is not an interpretation of Scripture. Scripture very clearly defines the rights of Holders, which includes the sole ownership of slaves.
I obey Amarr. I obey God. Amarr's law, and God's law, is dictated in Scripture, and Scripture comes before all other things.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2402
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 18:44:00 -
[297] - Quote
A voice for the voiceless, a champion for serf; A chain for the chainless, arbiter of worth; A sin for the sinless, disruption of birth; A heart for the heartless at heaven and hearth.
In standing, kneel; Unyielding, feel; In flying, bind; Uncaring, kind.
Your answer and mine are mostly the same, They're kindred in spirit but differ in name. |
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
203
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 19:23:09 -
[298] - Quote
Scripture does come before all other things.
So, my apologies 2nd lieutenant for pointing this out, but there is also a passage in scripture about code of demeanor which states "Be Careful. Be Watchful. Be Respectful". Most obvious question comes to mind, the faithful who are pushing this petition so vigorously are you being careful or watchful or maybe you are being respectful with all of this?
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Aeon Amadii
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:04:25 -
[299] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:My associate, Ms. Vailatti and I have tried to be respectful of the positions and friendships we share with those who have posted in this thread.
So let me speak in a plainer tone.
This is not the decadent Federation where all are alleged to be equal. This is not the corrupt Republic where your status as an elder means you're somehow more wise than someone who is younger. This is not Curse where "right" is measured by "force." This is not even the State where you are judged on your merits.
This is Amarr. The Empire. For good or ill, the Empire has made certain laws and treaties with CONCORD. So too, has the Kingdom of Khanid. Your opinions do not matter. Your petitions do not matter. Your interpretation of Scripture does not matter. Your feelings do not matter. Fairness does not matter. Justice does not matter. Pride does not matter.
The only thing that matters is your obedience.
The MIO has stated emphatically the Empire's position on slavery. I see no sign of a change in that position.
I have previously pointed out the legal differences between the Kingdom and the Empire and made mention of how slavery is done in the lawless reaches of NullSec. There is no indication that these systems will change either.
Challenge the rot that is CONCORD all you want.
Obey Amarr.
Now here's a man with a legitimate argument, one that I appreciate fully except for one consideration. Where does the Empire obtain their umm... 'slaves' as it were..? Is it from within the Empire? And to that extent, where does the Empire's boundaries begin to feather? At what point does it stop being "This is Amarr. The Empire." and the rights and establishments of other sovereign nations who strictly oppose indentured servitude begin to take over?
See, I'm all for cultural diversity. I'm even cool with a bit of slavery, provided it's written into whatever slack-jawed charter or constitution crazy people come up with and it's on their own turf. What I'm not cool with is this sort of hamfisted attempt to exercise that logic as if the Amarr want to go around claiming worlds all nimbly bimbly. You want to own slaves on your own worlds? Fine by me, but when you start to say "This is the Empire" and that feelings, justice, pride, - yadda yadda - don't matter, as if your golden regime overshadows the rest of humanity... Yeah, I might have a problem.
(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1021
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Posted - 2015.08.16 01:02:51 -
[300] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Scripture does come before all other things.
So, my apologies 2nd lieutenant for pointing this out, but there is also a passage in scripture about code of demeanor which states "Be Careful. Be Watchful. Be Respectful". Most obvious question comes to mind, the faithful who are pushing this petition so vigorously are you being careful or watchful or maybe you are being respectful with all of this?
You know, it's a lot more honest to just say 'I can't argue on the merits so JUST SHUT UP'.
Wastes less time reading, too. |
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