Now here's a man with a legitimate argument, one that I appreciate fully except for one consideration. Where does the Empire obtain their umm... 'slaves' as it were..? Is it from within the Empire? And to that extent, where does the Empire's boundaries begin to feather? At what point does it stop being "This is Amarr. The Empire." and the rights and establishments of other sovereign nations who strictly oppose indentured servitude begin to take over?

See, I'm all for cultural diversity. I'm even cool with a bit of slavery, provided it's written into whatever slack-jawed charter or constitution crazy people come up with and it's on their own turf. What I'm not cool with is this sort of hamfisted attempt to exercise that logic as if the Amarr want to go around claiming worlds all nimbly bimbly. You want to own slaves on your own worlds? Fine by me, but when you start to say "This is the Empire" and that feelings, justice, pride, - yadda yadda - don't matter, as if your golden regime overshadows the rest of humanity... Yeah, I might have a problem.

Scripture does come before all other things.

So, my apologies 2nd lieutenant for pointing this out, but there is also a passage in scripture about code of demeanor which states "Be Careful. Be Watchful. Be Respectful". Most obvious question comes to mind, the faithful who are pushing this petition so vigorously are you being careful or watchful or maybe you are being respectful with all of this?

To be very brief:

You have decieved me for the last time mokk! You hear me? The last time!

I think many more economically minded people above me realize it would be a bureaucratic disaster and stifle progress.

A whole lot of utter tripe and arrogance.

How screwed up do you have to be where you start making Nauplius look sensible and MiniLuv seem like a humanitarian organization?

I truly hate that I cannot go on a religious retreat anymore without having to check and see what is happening back home. However, I will say that so far, Samira might as well be posting from my own talking points.
Except the whip not chip slogan. That is not mine. Though, I do feel that all slaves should be treated in such a manner as to reclaim them for God so that one day they, or their descendants will serve God as free subjects of the Empire.

I am neither anti slavery nor anti authority. I believe that slaves should be owned and cared for by holders and duly appointed custodians and not random capsuleers who intend sacrifice them en mass as part of some Sani Sabik ritual.

anti-slavery

I am grateful that I attend a church where slave whipping techniques are still taught to youngsters at religious lessons and mortification of the flesh is considered to be holy still.

I think this is an abolitionist movement, and I will not change my mind until I see something that makes sense to me.

I mean, how do you think taking slaves OUT of the Amarr Empire protects them?

These are matters of sin. It is much worse for a slave to be rescued and sent to battle against us than it is for a Blood Raider to slay them, for then at least they are a martyr to the Lord, innocent of blame.

Now here's a man with a legitimate argument, one that I appreciate fully except for one consideration. Where does the Empire obtain their umm... 'slaves' as it were..? Is it from within the Empire? And to that extent, where does the Empire's boundaries begin to feather? At what point does it stop being "This is Amarr. The Empire." and the rights and establishments of other sovereign nations who strictly oppose indentured servitude begin to take over?

See, I'm all for cultural diversity. I'm even cool with a bit of slavery, provided it's written into whatever slack-jawed charter or constitution crazy people come up with and it's on their own turf. What I'm not cool with is this sort of hamfisted attempt to exercise that logic as if the Amarr want to go around claiming worlds all nimbly bimbly. You want to own slaves on your own worlds? Fine by me, but when you start to say "This is the Empire" and that feelings, justice, pride, - yadda yadda - don't matter, as if your golden regime overshadows the rest of humanity... Yeah, I might have a problem.

In the Ammatar Mandate, it's even more weird. Traditionally, the Mandate slave owners were primarily Minmatar. Over the years, especially after more Amarr Holders began living there, it looks a lot more like the Empire proper. There are still Ammatar (Matari) owners, but they are no longer the majority and they've settled into a quiet working relationship with their Amarr neighbors (if you ever want to start a bar fight in Amarr, drop the words "Ammatar Holder" and watch what happens).

Not screwed up enough to deny the Empress and threaten to kill the faithful for not bending to some nullsec tyrant's will.

As far as I know Heideran VII edict on slaver raids outside of Empire borders is still followed. However, enslaving PoW is still legal and that is often what happens to TLF and the Minmatar military fighting in the warzone.

It is a bit unclear on the side of the Khanid Kingdom, which has until recently been in a cold war state with the Empire and never followed that edict... Especially considering the shortage of slaves they had constantly to face. However, I am not sure to what extents the Kingdom can legally pursue slave raids outside of its territory with all the current Yulai regulations in place.

I would be interested to know more!

Thank you sir for your...kind words.

And some valid questions.

To be very brief:

The Majority of slaves within the Empire are Minmatar. Most are born into the position. The Empire does make new slaves from prisoners of war and slavery is used as a punishment for criminals. Some Holders buy and sell on the open (SCC) markets. The profession of "Slaver," a person authorized by the Empire to acquire, buy and sell "Controlled Personnel" has waned since the inception of the CONCORD treaties. They still exist and you can still hire them on SCC markets, but mostly these days new Controlled Personnel are taken by the Nobility, high-ranking military figures or high-ranking clergy.

In the interests of your cultural diversity, legal slavery within the Kingdom of Khanid has a few notable differences. First is that we don't border Minmatar space. So we haven't had near as much opportunity to get new stock from the Republic. So, we've had to adapt. That meant taking Controlled Personnel from everywhere else. This has left the Kingdom with a much more diverse slave stock than the Empire. We made many more from prisoners of war or criminals. We use slavers more often and raid into NullSec to acquire new stock.

As in the Empire, Holders are the primary legal owners of slaves. However, the Kingdom is somewhat more liberal with slave ownership, openly allowing non-nobles to own slaves should they be capable of affording them. The SCC treaties helped make this possible. It's rare. Capsuleer ownership is rare too, but gaining popularity.

At what point do the rights of other nations who oppose slavery take over? At the border. CONCORD and local border patrols make sure to levy fines on ships who try to transport Controlled Personnel out of the Empire or in from NullSec.

In the Ammatar Mandate, it's even more weird. Traditionally, the Mandate slave owners were primarily Minmatar. Over the years, especially after more Amarr Holders began living there, it looks a lot more like the Empire proper. There are still Ammatar (Matari) owners, but they are no longer the majority and they've settled into a quiet working relationship with their Amarr neighbors (if you ever want to start a bar fight in Amarr, drop the words "Ammatar Holder" and watch what happens).

Your last point is a can of worms. Amarr Conservatives will tell you exactly that all must be reclaimed. This makes our friends in the State nervous, so they don't usually say it much in mixed company. In that light, the Light of God, Amarr does overshadow the rest of humanity.

The point of it all is that my associates among the Amarr conservatives, those who have argued here the loudest about this petition and how it should be only Holders owning slaves, are correct in their quotations of Scripture, but blind to the realities of the galaxy we live in. Our governments, Amarr and Khanid, signed willingly our treaties with CONCORD, the SCC and the other four (now three) main governments. Traditionally, as much as we follow our Faith and our Scriptures, we should not be questioning the words of our leaders. Especially in public. If they want to go against the Will of the Empire, that's on them. Me? I'll follow my King and my God and the Laws of my People.

You want to enslave your own people, be my guest, but let's just say that if I catch you or yours in Molden Heath trying to pull that number on our worlds... that pod won't save you from what I'll do.

1,022,541 Slaves. Purchased not from Imperial markets, but from the vast slave markets of the Angel Cartel.

I do not need Imperial slave markets to glorify God in the destruction of slaves. And these slaves will glorify God in their destruction. Amen. Amarr Victor.

The people wanted a Sarum on the throne more than anyone else, and there are very specific reasons for that.

You clearly do not understand us and until you convert, you will never understand the Amarr people. Be he farmer or soldier, the Amarr people understand War and they understand Vengeance. The Empress speaks to the heart of the people because God is there in them and God is with her.

You're right I have flown in only a few fleets but I look forward to the day when I have enough experience to meet scum like you in glorious combat.

Be careful what you wish for...

Not signed.

As much as I respect my Amarr allies and their faith. Nothing should stand in the way of free enterprise and commercial activity. Those who have worked hard to establish their business on the selling and buying of slaves have a right to keep that business and not have it be cut out from under them. Think of how many families are fed, housed, and clothed because of this business. We must not allow those people to end up suffering because of some moral or religious stance.