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Petition: Remove Slaves from the SCC Markets.

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Christine Peeveepeeski Low Sec Concepts 714	Posted - 2015.03.08 08:34:01 - [61] - Quote Signed, i also suggest that any living person should not be on the free maket. Janitors, tourists, exotic dancers and the rest. It should be their choice who they work for NOT some capsuleer who has set an arbitrary price for their services. We should not be involved in their choices in any way beyond offering a wage. It should be up to the individual to accept.
Celestia Via Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 68	Posted - 2015.03.08 09:41:46 - [62] - Quote Thank you. Thank you all! There's no place like space
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4529	Posted - 2015.03.08 10:50:05 - [63] - Quote Signed. Buy or sell the Labour of a person, not the person. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1360	Posted - 2015.03.08 11:27:20 - [64] - Quote It should be noted that this proposal is a call to end the sale of slaves to those who have no divine right to own them. It is not a call to end slavery. If you are signing, what you are advocating for is an end to the liberal business practices that have resulted in the sale of slaves through SCC loopholes to non-Holders. I will ask once again that people please refrain from trying to make this a call for abolition of slavery, because that will only ensure that this measure fails to convince the people it is hoping to convince. This proposal is a call to preserve Amarrian traditions against the evils that have resulted of a foreign-introduced liberal free market. Slaves belong to Amarrian Holders and no others.
Celestia Via Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 68	Posted - 2015.03.08 11:48:21 - [65] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: It should be noted that this proposal is a call to end the sale of slaves to those who have no divine right to own them. It is not a call to end slavery. If you are signing, what you are advocating for is an end to the liberal business practices that have resulted in the sale of slaves through SCC loopholes to non-Holders. I will ask once again that people please refrain from trying to make this a call for abolition of slavery, because that will only ensure that this measure fails to convince the people it is hoping to convince. This proposal is a call to preserve Amarrian traditions against the evils that have resulted of a foreign-introduced liberal free market. Slaves belong to Amarrian Holders and no others. Your own divine leader has moved towards the abolition of slavery! Do you feel it wise to question her? ...Nevermind, this is none of my concern. Even so, it is a small step to the right direction. "We marched for days and nights, under sun, in the rain. Our minds and bodies ached for rest, but in our hearts there was nothing but the fight."
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1362	Posted - 2015.03.08 12:02:18 - [66] - Quote Her Imperial Majesty has only said that the time for chains is ending, but that day is not today. It will happen in a manner and time of God's choosing. Until that time we must work to preserve slavery according to proper tradition and Scripture, and resist attempts to turn it into a secular profiteering venture. Thank you again to those that have supported this.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4529	Posted - 2015.03.08 12:19:57 - [67] - Quote I was referring to the Capsuleer market, of course. What our allies (and enemies) get up to in their sovereign space is a matter for them. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Haria Haritimado EVE University Ivy League 24	Posted - 2015.03.08 12:50:44 - [68] - Quote This petition seems to be a proper answer to some recent proclamations. I support the initiative. Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
Albizu Zateki Cult of the Lash 40	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:32:59 - [69] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: It should be noted that this proposal is a call to end the sale of slaves to those who have no divine right to own them. It is not a call to end slavery. If you are signing, what you are advocating for is an end to the liberal business practices that have resulted in the sale of slaves through SCC loopholes to non-Holders. I will ask once again that people please refrain from trying to make this a call for abolition of slavery, because that will only ensure that this measure fails to convince the people it is hoping to convince. This proposal is a call to preserve Amarrian traditions against the evils that have resulted of a foreign-introduced liberal free market. Slaves belong to Amarrian Holders and no others. Yes, do sign. By signing, that means YOU SUPPORT SLAVERY! Dolts. It means that not only do you support it, you support the Holder system that originated it and you vote to keep the Holders and the institution of slavery going strong in High Sec Amarr. Of course, if you come out to Delve, The Covenant has slaves of all sorts. End slavery in Amarr and it will continue among the Covenant, the Angels, anywhere we roam. And if you find yourself supporting CONCORD or the Sisters (lovely little blood scouts some of them are), you should probably ask yourself why they don't do a thing to "end slavery." It matters not. You can vote and petition all you want. You will change nothing.You might as well throw snowballs at a star and hope to extinguish its light. *"Bloody Omir's coming back. Monsters from the endless black. Wading through a crimson flood, Omir's come to drink your blood."*
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 332	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:37:34 - [70] - Quote I would have the readers of this forum remember that I am a Khanid Commoner and thus a rightful and legal slave-owner. I would also add that like all slave-owners, I have the right to find my slaves guilty and pronounce sentences of death upon them. All that I have done is exercise my legal rights to own lots of slaves and pronounce sentences of death upon all of them.
Lord Kailethre Oruze Cruise 41	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:56:30 - [71] - Quote Nauplius wrote: I would have the readers of this forum remember that I am a Khanid Commoner and thus a rightful and legal slave-owner. I would also add that like all slave-owners, I have the right to find my slaves guilty and pronounce sentences of death upon them. All that I have done is exercise my legal rights to own lots of slaves and pronounce sentences of death upon all of them. Your legality to own slaves is not in question here. Re-read the original post. This is a petition to cease illegal or loopholed slave trading by the SCC markets. If you are able to own slaves you have other ways to acquire them.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1366	Posted - 2015.03.08 15:06:29 - [72] - Quote The Butcher is not a legal slave owner in Amarr, regardless of what practices the Kingdom deals in.
Alizebeth Amalath Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:26:28 - [73] - Quote I'm fairly certain that the Kingdom doesn't let heretics buy slaves by the million and execute them for the 'red god.'
Jennifer Starfall Repracor Industries 107	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:32:43 - [74] - Quote Personally, signed. On behalf of Repracor Industries, signed. Jennifer Starfall Media & Communications Repracor Industries
Shaera Taam Khanid Prime Free Irregulars 173	Posted - 2015.03.08 21:14:30 - [75] - Quote Despite my own opinions on the issue of Abolition, I shall honor Ms Kernher's request for a debate-free petition. /signed Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Slobodan Hawkwood PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3	Posted - 2015.03.08 21:35:49 - [76] - Quote Signed "I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." Paladin's Creed
Eran Mintor Furtherance. 855	Posted - 2015.03.08 21:37:31 - [77] - Quote I like watching Blood Raiders squirm. -Eran
Merdaneth Tzedakah Aegis Militia 351	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:05:31 - [78] - Quote Alizebeth Amalath wrote: Merdaneth wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: The SCC marketplace is an excellent place to trade slaves, even if it does mean that those not worthy of holding slaves can deal in them. Therefore, rather than an outright ban I favour an amendment to the SCC's procedures so that undesirables cannot trade in slaves. My opinion is congruent with that of Admiral Blake on this matter. No blanket bans. Merely introduce proper checks and balances. Trying to change the SCC is a futile gesture that results in nothing but good feelings for having tried. Changing the policy of the Imperial and Khanid institutions that sell slaves on the SCC market is a much more attainable and specific goal. If you or Admiral Blake have a plan that is achievable, measurable and specific, I would love to hear it. If I wanted to change Imperial and Khanid institutions, I would do it in the form of a petition. Petitions reek of Gallente culture: a culture of self-entitlement.
Katerina Tzestu Reikoku Pandemic Legion 10	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:32:45 - [79] - Quote Alizebeth Amalath wrote: I'm fairly certain that the Kingdom doesn't let heretics buy slaves by the million and execute them for the 'red god.' We don't. Signed.
Blue spy Eclipse Navy Brave Collective 33	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:49:57 - [80] - Quote While I understand that this petition could have had a more likable list of opponents, I would like to encourage everybody here to at least attempt to understand exactly what Nauplius and Albizu are attempting to explain. This petition is not a step forward in the abolition of slavery; nor will it result in any meaningful strides made in the welfare of slaves. What this petition will do is codify into law the divine right for Amarrian holders, and only Amarrian holders to engage in the practice of buying and selling slaves. I encourage any Minmatar and abolitionists here to look over this petition again, and ask yourself this question... "Why should we legitimise the Amarrian slave trade?" This petition is not sacrosanct; it's an attempt to corner a market and muscle out external competition. There's no mercy or kindness in it so why humour it by treating this petition as if it is some kind of benevolent gesture above scrutiny?
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1369	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:12:32 - [81] - Quote Blue spy wrote: What this petition will do is codify into law the divine right for Amarrian holders, and only Amarrian holders to engage in the practice of buying and selling slaves. No, it is not codifying a divine right, because that divine right already exists as law in Scripture. It is encouraging the enforcement of that law in SCC transactions. That law is already enforced in local Amarrian economic policies and has been for thousands of years. Holders are and have always been the sole legal owners of slaves in Amarr. We cannot allow foreign free markets to break down our traditions, especially with the kind of heretical consequences that have arisen from that erosion. "Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away." -- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
Evi Polevhia Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 828	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:19:18 - [82] - Quote Blue spy wrote: While I understand that this petition could have had a more likable list of opponents, I would like to encourage everybody here to at least attempt to understand exactly what Nauplius and Albizu are attempting to explain. This petition is not a step forward in the abolition of slavery; nor will it result in any meaningful strides made in the welfare of slaves. What this petition will do is codify into law the divine right for Amarrian holders, and only Amarrian holders to engage in the practice of buying and selling slaves. I encourage any Minmatar and abolitionists here to look over this petition again, and ask yourself this question... "Why should we legitimise the Amarrian slave trade?" This petition is not sacrosanct; it's an attempt to corner a market and muscle out external competition. There's no mercy or kindness in it so why humour it by treating this petition as if it is some kind of benevolent gesture above scrutiny? This petition is not legitimizing the Amarrian slave trade, it's taking the slave trade out of the hands of non-Holder Capsuleers. This will not affect the vast majority of legitimate Holders from acquiring slaves. This petition will prevent the likes of Nauplius, me, and blood bathing crazy 24th IC Militia Members from acquiring easily mass amounts of cheap slaves. This is considered by many to be a good thing. And all things considered, even I will not speak out against it. You say it is not a step forward to abolishing slavery. Well, true. But neither is it a watermelon. Anyone who claims it is something it's not needs to look closer. The swarm of signatures are not coming because of a move to abolish slavery, but rather restrict slaves from falling in to the hands of cruel and uncaring capsuleers. Take your stance in this matter wisely.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 1673	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:20:10 - [83] - Quote A simpler solution would be to rebrand slaves sold on the SCC markets as, "Crew (Indentured)". Less hassle, and I daresay the fact they are listed on SCC databases simply as crew would make their purchase, sale, and potential destruction much less of a contentious issue in the public domain. That aside, sure why not, I'll sign. Human trafficking should be something for the black markets, conducted by shady and dubious people, and not legitimized on the SCC markets where it offends my humanitarian sensibilities while I'm looking to purchase some high explosive ordnance, armaments, and the accoutrements of violence.
Alizebeth Amalath Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:24:54 - [84] - Quote Merdaneth wrote: Alizebeth Amalath wrote: Trying to change the SCC is a futile gesture that results in nothing but good feelings for having tried. Changing the policy of the Imperial and Khanid institutions that sell slaves on the SCC market is a much more attainable and specific goal. If you or Admiral Blake have a plan that is achievable, measurable and specific, I would love to hear it. If I wanted to change Imperial and Khanid institutions, I would do it in the form of a petition. Petitions reek of Gallente culture: a culture of self-entitlement. I could have started by filing suit in Theology Council courts against the Civic Court for violation of Canon Law. That seemed unduly hostile as a first step, though. You, Reverend, could actually come up with a plan that keeps those we have an obligation to out of the hands of lunatics and murders like I asked, instead of an automatic gainsaying. In this thread, there Blood Raiders admitting that they need to buy those slaves to experiment on, torture and murder. There is a Sansha supporter that admits to buying slaves to take to Stain, where they undoubtedly become mindless drones. There are Minmatar that buy slaves to smuggle them across the border. And you quibble and sneer about how a petition is the 'wrong way to do it.' It frankly makes me sick.
Blue spy Eclipse Navy Brave Collective 33	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:28:22 - [85] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: Blue spy wrote: What this petition will do is codify into law the divine right for Amarrian holders, and only Amarrian holders to engage in the practice of buying and selling slaves. No, it is not codifying a divine right, because that divine right already exists as law in Scripture. It is encouraging the enforcement of that law in SCC transactions. That law is already enforced in local Amarrian economic policies and has been for thousands of years. Holders are and have always been the sole legal owners of slaves in Amarr. We cannot allow foreign free markets to break down our traditions, especially with the kind of heretical consequences that have arisen from that erosion. I was not aware that divine law factored into the day-to-day operations of the SCC. But while we are on the topic of Amarrian imperialism, what other steps can the cluster make to better accommodate to, and pander to the Amarr? My arguement isn't about abolition. Whether you sign this petition or not; will make no difference to the wellbeing of the average slave. It won't save them from Nauplius he has the means, and resources to simply bypass the SCC entirely. Instead you're just guaranteeing and pandering to the belief of Amarrians that they have some god given right right to keep and own slaves. You're merely signing off to offer your support to that notion. I would have thought thay any Minmatar worth his salt would rather chop his or her own hand off than bend the knee to the notion that Amarrians have the right to own slaves.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1370	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:30:40 - [86] - Quote Merdaneth wrote: If I wanted to change Imperial and Khanid institutions, I would do it in the form of a petition. Petitions reek of Gallente culture: a culture of self-entitlement. With all due respect, milord... While I understand that there was much chaos in the early years of this decade that were of much graver concern than this, it is something that needs to be changed. I do not normally approve of this kind of petition, but if getting on our hands and knees and begging en masse is the only way to see this evil ended then it would be irresponsible of us to not do it. I will take whatever punishment is due to me for overstepping my place if it would see this horrid practice changed. If you know of a better way to go about this, then please tell me and I will do it. As a commoner I have little other power than my pleas, and can only beg my betters to take these matters to our heirs on my behalf. "Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away." -- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
Alizebeth Amalath Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:31:37 - [87] - Quote Blue spy wrote: I was not aware that divine law factored into the day-to-day operations of the SCC. But while we are on the topic of Amarrian imperialism, what other steps can the cluster make to better accommodate to, and pander to the Amarr? This is not directed at the SCC. This is directed to the Civic Court, Khanid Transport and the Ammatar Consulate. These are three Imperial/Kingdom agencies operating in sovereign Imperial/Kingdom space. This is a purely internal affair and has no bearing on the wider SCC markets or operations.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1370	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:34:59 - [88] - Quote Blue spy wrote: I was not aware that divine law factored into the day-to-day operations of the SCC. It should factor into all dealings by and with faithful citizens of Amarr, as it has in our economic policies for thousands of years and as was upheld in our previous trading agreements with the other empires. We are not asking the cluster. We are not asking CONCORD or the SCC to change their policies. We are asking our lords to enforce God's law on our people. "Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away." -- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
Blue spy Eclipse Navy Brave Collective 33	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:42:33 - [89] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: Blue spy wrote: I was not aware that divine law factored into the day-to-day operations of the SCC. It should factor into all dealings by and with faithful citizens of Amarr, as it has in our economic policies for thousands of years and as was upheld in our previous trading agreements with the other empires. We are not asking the cluster. We are not asking CONCORD or the SCC to change their policies. We are asking our lords to enforce God's law on our people. I apologise for reaching my conclusion rather rashly then. Any attempts by the Amarrians to limit their own market activities can count on my wholehearted support.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1370	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:48:31 - [90] - Quote Thank you, sir. "Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away." -- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur

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