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Sticky:[Discussion] Entosis Link Tactics and Ship Balance

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 764	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:02:00 - [1141] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: i feel like it still needs to be a ship-mounted module but it definitely needs anti-interceptor properties like the ones mentioned repeatedly in this thread Nope. Interceptors already have counters. How much their ability to avoid gatecamps annoys you is just a bonus. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 764	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:02:54 - [1142] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: After all, your drakes must stay on grid until the hp bar gets to where it reinforces, so you should stay on grid until the sov laser gets the sov laser bar thing to the reinforce point. Exactly! Stay on grid until the timer's run, or don't influence the timer at all. Pretty simple, I think. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6602	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:09:56 - [1143] - Quote It's Structure Shooting Mk2: Structure Lasering Ok, sounds good to me. Let's stick with the module concept. Not that drakes could really troll sov by shooting and scooting, but it's ok since we want frigates in their ones and twos to take sov ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Baali Tekitsu AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 699	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:11:08 - [1144] - Quote Prepare your anuses sov holders of new eden as Im gonna take all your sov in my interceptor and you can do nuffin about it. Rental contract 1b/month for -0.1 system and 100m additional for ice belt or additional sec level. Shoot me a mail so we can sort the details. Goons better prepare FW campaign tho, theyre not getting any systems from me. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:11:33 - [1145] - Quote Veskrashen wrote: Interceptors already have counters nope
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 765	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:13:56 - [1146] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: It's Structure Shooting Mk2: Structure Lasering Ok, sounds good to me. Let's stick with the module concept. Not that drakes could really troll sov by shooting and scooting, but it's ok since we want frigates in their ones and twos to take sov As a FW pilot, this mechanic is very familiar to me. Be on grid for a set amount of time to cap a plex and advance your control of the system. It ain't hard - stay on grid, hold the grid, kill what comes. Only difference is that the capture range for the new sov structures is 250km, it's not deadspace, and there's no cap on ship sizes. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:14:25 - [1147] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Prepare your anuses sov holders of new eden as Im gonna take all your sov in my interceptor and you can do nuffin about it. Rental contract 1b/month for -0.1 system and 100m additional for ice belt or additional sec level. Shoot me a mail so we can sort the details. Goons better prepare FW campaign tho, theyre not getting any systems from me. unfortunately you can't collapse nullsec gates when things go south for you
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 765	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:14:43 - [1148] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Interceptors already have counters nope You are absolutely blind if you think that. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Baali Tekitsu AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 699	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:14:49 - [1149] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Interceptors already have counters nope Thats correct, you better enjoy your anoms until the sov changes because they gonna be mine soon. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Zazad Antollare Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:15:18 - [1150] - Quote No structure shooting XD nothing close to SBUs. The hp doesnGÇÖt really matter if its invulnerable while 2 or more links are active (read contest) and if abandoning the grid destroys it (only should remain alive if the timer is won)
zzrat AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 2	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:15:50 - [1151] - Quote To combat the troll kite fit, the closer you are to the point the more control your ship has over it. As in, Two of the same ship type, one at 250km and one at 10km the one at 10km will win. Or donGÇÖt base it on ship type, the closes ship with a entosis on the point will win the tug of war, in the allotted time. zz
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:16:24 - [1152] - Quote Veskrashen wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Interceptors already have counters nope You are absolutely blind if you think that. i tend not to see unicorns yes this doesn't make me blind, it makes you delusional
Baali Tekitsu AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 700	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:16:41 - [1153] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: Baali Tekitsu wrote: Prepare your anuses sov holders of new eden as Im gonna take all your sov in my interceptor and you can do nuffin about it. Rental contract 1b/month for -0.1 system and 100m additional for ice belt or additional sec level. Shoot me a mail so we can sort the details. Goons better prepare FW campaign tho, theyre not getting any systems from me. unfortunately you can't collapse nullsec gates when things go south for you They cant go south (at least for me) because Im gonna be flying a uncounterable imterceptor. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:18:20 - [1154] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Baali Tekitsu wrote: Prepare your anuses sov holders of new eden as Im gonna take all your sov in my interceptor and you can do nuffin about it. Rental contract 1b/month for -0.1 system and 100m additional for ice belt or additional sec level. Shoot me a mail so we can sort the details. Goons better prepare FW campaign tho, theyre not getting any systems from me. unfortunately you can't collapse nullsec gates when things go south for you They cant go south (at least for me) because Im gonna be flying a uncounterable imterceptor. so you post that they are uncounterable and your alt says they aren't
Baali Tekitsu AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 700	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:20:28 - [1155] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: Baali Tekitsu wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Baali Tekitsu wrote: Prepare your anuses sov holders of new eden as Im gonna take all your sov in my interceptor and you can do nuffin about it. Rental contract 1b/month for -0.1 system and 100m additional for ice belt or additional sec level. Shoot me a mail so we can sort the details. Goons better prepare FW campaign tho, theyre not getting any systems from me. unfortunately you can't collapse nullsec gates when things go south for you They cant go south (at least for me) because Im gonna be flying a uncounterable imterceptor. so you post that they are uncounterable and your alt says they aren't You say that and I share your opinion. I dont have alts. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 765	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:24:31 - [1156] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Interceptors already have counters nope You are absolutely blind if you think that. i tend not to see unicorns yes this doesn't make me blind, it makes you delusional Riiiiiight. For those who can't remember the counters, here's a synopsis: 1. Defenders will always be faster than you, ceteris paribus, because they'll be able to bring links and you won't. 2. If they have probes, they'll land within engagement range of you everytime. And then you die, because you have no tank and can't leave. 3. If you bugger off like the risk averse pansy nullbear you are, they hold grid and can quickly undo your work. 4. If you bugger off to another objective in their space, they can do it again. 5. If there's 50 of you in their space, the reasonable response is to park tanky AFK alts on any structure they care about, and you make zero progress. 6. There are quite frankly bazillions of counters to fast interceptors - assuming you're not so married to gate camping that you can't see any other solution. So long as you're willing to concede that building a huge wall of bubbles on the chokepoints to your precious sov doesn't protect you, a multitude of solutions unfold before you. The single objection Gewns have raised is that Inties can insta-warp and are interdiction nullified, and therefore can't be gatecamped out of their widdle Fortress Deklein. They have no problem at all with cloakies, nullified T3s, or wicked fast T3 destroyers like the Svipul and Confessor. The one and only thing that bothers them is things that can avoid a bubble camp with instalocking overwatch. To someone with any tinfoil tendencies, that would suggest that at least one preliminary defensive strategy was to bubblecamp the snot out of chokepoints into their territory, and keep a sharp eye out for new wormhole signatures. Interceptors would render that preventative strategy pointless. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Zazad Antollare Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:29:06 - [1157] - Quote You people really dont get it, the best way to deal with this is not changing how interceptors work or how the link interacts with the ship, its making that the link works in a way that is equal to all ships so that no ship class is favored in the sov war.
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 766	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:32:47 - [1158] - Quote Zazad Antollare wrote: You people really dont get it, the best way to deal with this is not changing how interceptors work or how the link interacts with the ship, its making that the link works in a way that is equal to all ships so that no ship class is favored in the sov war. Exactly. Right now it does. No need to make special cases for those with high warp speeds or interdiction nullification properties. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6602	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:33:10 - [1159] - Quote Doesn't matter anymore. In the past, it was ships with DPS and ideally not having to reload Now it's just you need to be able to run about, and ideally not be catchable by bubbles ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:34:59 - [1160] - Quote Veskrashen wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Interceptors already have counters nope You are absolutely blind if you think that. i tend not to see unicorns yes this doesn't make me blind, it makes you delusional Riiiiiight. For those who can't remember the counters, here's a synopsis: 1. Defenders will always be faster than you, ceteris paribus, because they'll be able to bring links and you won't. 2. If they have probes, they'll land within engagement range of you everytime. And then you die, because you have no tank and can't leave. 3. If you bugger off like the risk averse pansy nullbear you are, they hold grid and can quickly undo your work. 4. If you bugger off to another objective in their space, they can do it again. 5. If there's 50 of you in their space, the reasonable response is to park tanky AFK alts on any structure they care about, and you make zero progress. 6. There are quite frankly bazillions of counters to fast interceptors - assuming you're not so married to gate camping that you can't see any other solution. So long as you're willing to concede that building a huge wall of bubbles on the chokepoints to your precious sov doesn't protect you, a multitude of solutions unfold before you. The single objection Gewns have raised is that Inties can insta-warp and are interdiction nullified, and therefore can't be gatecamped out of their widdle Fortress Deklein. They have no problem at all with cloakies, nullified T3s, or wicked fast T3 destroyers like the Svipul and Confessor. The one and only thing that bothers them is things that can avoid a bubble camp with instalocking overwatch. To someone with any tinfoil tendencies, that would suggest that at least one preliminary defensive strategy was to bubblecamp the snot out of chokepoints into their territory, and keep a sharp eye out for new wormhole signatures. Interceptors would render that preventative strategy pointless. interceptors are faster than any defender (hint: 8 AU/s warp speed), probes show up on dscan allowing you to disengage, after disengaging you go to work on another structure, and a single viable counter to an interceptor has yet to be posted covert bridging also allows you to bypass bubble camps so feel free to drop that sophistry whenever you feel like it ships need to be realistically catchable for any defense to be worthwhile i don't like to assign 0.0 experience by alliance alone but damned if you all aren't doing a fine job betraying your lack of experience with your words
Zazad Antollare Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:36:09 - [1161] - Quote Veskrashen wrote: Zazad Antollare wrote: You people really dont get it, the best way to deal with this is not changing how interceptors work or how the link interacts with the ship, its making that the link works in a way that is equal to all ships so that no ship class is favored in the sov war. Exactly. Right now it does. No need to make special cases for those with high warp speeds or interdiction nullification properties. Right now its doesnt, you stick it in a BS you have a tanky link, you stick it in a interceptor you have a fast and manuveral link, that doesnt seem the same (plus you have ilimited uses on the link).
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 85	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:41:06 - [1162] - Quote In regards to the Entosis Link using fuel: I think this is a good idea. Using one Strontium every time you turn the module on would do a few good things. As Mike pointed out earlier along with the original people I'm sure; it would mean there is some form of logistics taking place to contest these systems. Especially when it comes to the outer lying systems. Smaller ships, such as interceptors hint hint, will have to be somewhat selective on what systems to contest and how many times they are willing to try to contest it. If they find themselves dealing with actual defenders active in the system and negating their Entosis Link with their own, they will have wasted time and will need to move on. Even if super zippy, untouchable (allegedly... ) ships do their thing, they can only do it so long before they run out of fuel. The defenders have the luxary of nearby stations and POS's that are common for alliances that own sov to resupply their Entosis Links. Overdrive Injectors, which is used to gain fast speed, have a penalty to cargo space. Food for thought. If players do not like the idea of having to resupply so often with small fast ships, they can use larger ships with bigger cargo bays. These larger ships tend to be much, much slower than tiny fast frigates. Getting the picture now? What the over all effect is it still means abandoned systems can still be captured just as easy as this new sov system wants, without having to subject itself to the mythical Trollceptors that terrorize the dreams of certain groups. What are your thoughts?
Anya Solette GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:41:11 - [1163] - Quote Raptors warp at 12 au/s though :pwn:
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 766	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:42:24 - [1164] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: interceptors are faster than any defender (hint: 8 AU/s warp speed), probes show up on dscan allowing you to disengage, after disengaging you go to work on another structure, and a single viable counter to an interceptor has yet to be posted covert bridging also allows you to bypass bubble camps so feel free to drop that sophistry whenever you feel like it ships need to be realistically catchable for any defense to be worthwhile i don't like to assign 0.0 experience by alliance alone but damned if you all aren't doing a fine job betraying your lack of experience with your words 1. You're stuck on grid until the module finishes its cycle. You cannot disengage at will. 2. Buggering off to another structure only works if you can have 2+ minutes unmolested at the new structure to make progress. If someone arrives before then and you're forced to bugger off again, you make no progress and therefore waste their time. 3. I would buy the "covert cynos" bit if cloaky ships or cloaky nullified T3s were an issue in your eyes, but they're not. Which is totally reasonable - they're a lot easier to catch. But since those aren't an issue, it's the ability to avoid gatecamps that has your panties in a knot. If you perused my corp history, you'd realize I do actually have quite a bit of nullsec experience. But we're not really talking about experience with nullsec dynamics currently, we're dealing with a distributed objective grid limited timer based capture mechanic. Which, if you understand Faction Warfare at all, is exactly what I've been dealing with for over a year and a half. And just like stabbed plexing alts are not a problem at all in Faction Warfare for folks who are willing to actively defend their space, Trollceptors are not a problem for any semi-active nullsec alliance with half a brain and reasonable activity levels. But hey, keep emptyposting and doing the "yer a pubbie!" ad hominem BS attacks. Really makes your point for you. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:42:45 - [1165] - Quote Anya Solette wrote: Raptors warp at 12 au/s though :pwn: nah it's 8: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=11178 if you rig them for warp speed then yeah you get the 12 but the trollceptor fit requires you to use small ionics instead to get enough distance to be effective
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 766	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:44:16 - [1166] - Quote Zazad Antollare wrote: Veskrashen wrote: Zazad Antollare wrote: You people really dont get it, the best way to deal with this is not changing how interceptors work or how the link interacts with the ship, its making that the link works in a way that is equal to all ships so that no ship class is favored in the sov war. Exactly. Right now it does. No need to make special cases for those with high warp speeds or interdiction nullification properties. Right now its doesnt, you stick it in a BS you have a tanky link, you stick it in a interceptor you have a fast and manuveral link, that doesnt seem the same (plus you have ilimited uses on the link). the only thing it should change from ship to ship is how you deploy it (cloaky or brute force,etc) and how can you hold it, not the link itself Actually, it works exactly the same regardless of the platform you're using - activate link, wait out the first cycle, timer ticks down at the same rate after that. The fact that your choice of Link platform defines the problem for the defender to solve doesn't negate the fact that the Link module and capture mechanic remain exactly the same. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:45:51 - [1167] - Quote Veskrashen wrote: 1. You're stuck on grid until the module finishes its cycle. You cannot disengage at will. 2. Buggering off to another structure only works if you can have 2+ minutes unmolested at the new structure to make progress. If someone arrives before then and you're forced to bugger off again, you make no progress and therefore waste their time. 3. I would buy the "covert cynos" bit if cloaky ships or cloaky nullified T3s were an issue in your eyes, but they're not. Which is totally reasonable - they're a lot easier to catch. But since those aren't an issue, it's the ability to avoid gatecamps that has your panties in a knot. you're not stuck on grid, you go very fast which allows you to evade anyone attacking you, burn off grid, then disengage at will also i am curious why you seem so miffed about the gatecamp GÇö-áif people want to put in some effort to keeping people out of their space, i feel like that is worthwhile you can also break gatecamps with sufficient pvp force so again i have to wonder why you hold them in such contempt
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 766	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:48:19 - [1168] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: you're not stuck on grid, you go very fast which allows you to evade anyone attacking you, burn off grid, then disengage at will As noted before, there are a multitude of counters that are faster, can catch it, and kill it. Oh, and combat probes mean you land on grid with the target. Hi. Quote: also i am curious why you seem so miffed about the gatecamp GÇö-áif people want to put in some effort to keeping people out of their space, i feel like that is worthwhile you can also break gatecamps with sufficient pvp force so again i have to wonder why you hold them in such contempt I don't hold them in contempt. I simply note that the only thing - literally the only thing - that makes "Trollceptors" such a problem in your eyes is their ability to evade bubbled gatecamps. If it wasn't such an issue for you I wouldn't make such a big deal about it. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12098	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:48:52 - [1169] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: you can also break gatecamps with sufficient pvp force so again i have to wonder why you hold them in such contempt Because they don't want to have "military superiority on grid". That's the origination of all of their arguments. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veskrashen Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 766	Posted - 2015.03.10 03:54:25 - [1170] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: you can also break gatecamps with sufficient pvp force so again i have to wonder why you hold them in such contempt Because they don't want to have "military superiority on grid". That's the origination of all of their arguments. Actually, the "military superiority on grid" is no problem at all. See, we feel we can achieve that even in the face of interceptors going 7km/sec. We don't think that Trollceptors are invincible boogiemen that can't be killed and can't be countered. Other folks with well-endowed toons seem to have an issue seeing beyond gatecamps as the only security measure that works. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

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