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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Corey Lean
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
73
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:43:17 -
[361] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:so come out and fight...it will be YOUR choice to defend YOUR space or not..... maybe you will have to PvP instead of ratting 24/7 Haha what, people try to fight you all day long but you run away..in your interceptors and stealth bombers. At least you finally came clean about wanting sov though |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
330
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:43:26 -
[362] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: Because they can be countered by a T1 ewar frig that's even cheaper - so long as there's someone awake in local anyways.
edit: Anyone noticed that goons have to blob the forums to try and win their arguments?
you counter an interceptor at one capture node / sov structure and it just shrugs and goes to another one nothing warps faster than an interceptor so enjoy spewing logarithmically increasing numbers of evemannen to bore out a single interceptor I think you mean "Nothing warps faster than an interceptor using an entosis link that can't even start its warp for 2 minutes..."
And the fallacy is revealed...because pretty much everything other than a freighter can do that. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
289
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:43:29 -
[363] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:yeah actually i do find it pretty tiring to have to slog through two hours of crap in order to unearth the nuggets of information i need to actually be able to play the game because there is some fear or impotence in the arena of even echoing the information on the official communications mechanisms Nothing that interesting was really said except 'Trollceptors can easily get nerf-batted if they get out of hand' There ya go, saved you 2 hours and about 150 pages of Goon forum posts.
With that he also misses the ridiculousness of people who comment on sov null individual income with no prior null experience. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
721
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:43:44 -
[364] - Quote
Killian Cormac wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:the whole point is we're willing to fight Doesn't sound like it. See:
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:So.... your area of control shrinks to something manageable and the downside is that you get lots more good fights close to home with people you've likely never seen before?
For other folks they get the chance to make a stake and experience 0.0. Even if they can't hold their sov, they have fun and perhaps find an area where they DO manage to hang on and grow?
I'm not really seeing a downside here... for anyone. interceptors don't generate fights, they run away why would you contest sov with anything but the cheapest, most maneuverable ships in the new system
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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1Robert McNamara1
The Graduates Forged of Fire
69
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:43:48 -
[365] - Quote
Just make it burn fuel.
The Entosis link should require say heavy water or some PI-goo, spent at the start of the cycle. This would make it so only serious people could or would use them. Interceptors and other kiting ships would have to gimp their fits to bring enough fuel to actually reinforce something. Sov holders will likely have gobs of heavy water laying around because it's only used in Roquals and fuel blocks. |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
632
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:44:14 -
[366] - Quote
Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:interceptors don't generate fights Interceptors destabilize sov, and the threat of losing sov DOES generate fights, with plenty of advance notice. no it doesn't, because the point of the interceptor is to bore your enemy to death not give him fights |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
599
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:44:21 -
[367] - Quote
Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:interceptors don't generate fights Interceptors destabilize sov, and the threat of losing sov DOES generate fights, with plenty of advance notice. no it doesn't
you just bring interceptors to contest the capture node pimples too
why would you ever risk anything when you don't have to, the job gets done either way |
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
135
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:44:29 -
[368] - Quote
afkalt wrote:DeadDuck wrote:The danger is not in the single guy that comes along in a fast ship to mess with your sov.
The abuse will be in a group of 5-10 fast ships protecting the "troll ceptor(s)" that can pretty much mess up the sov of a solid alliance without much effort or risk. That's it...
Bring 2 troll ceptors, 1 of grid booster, 3-5 ortrus/cynabals/Ishtars + 1 or 2 keres + 1 Logistic and you have a winner, to turn sov a nightmare to keep to 99,99% of the alliances in game.
This WILL happen unless there is a penalty to ship velocity of some kind even if It would make so much more sense to restrict the enthosis link to cap ships. So roaming gangs get a fight? The HORROR! The abject HORROR! If you live in your space and you cant handle this crap in your own, designated prime time....you deserve to lose it. Good lord, you'd think these things are going to come crawling out from under your beds whilst you sleep.
Sorry but I dont have afraid of fights ... is what I do 100% (one hundred percent) of the time I'm logged in...
The problem is that Providence is visited by dozens of roams every day. Sometimes there are hundreds of hostiles around in diferent gangs to get fights. Most of them ends dead but it takes time to deal with it...
If every single one of them start bringing enthosis links to get fights, well you can pretty much see what will hapen in no time... |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
599
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:45:23 -
[369] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: Because they can be countered by a T1 ewar frig that's even cheaper - so long as there's someone awake in local anyways.
edit: Anyone noticed that goons have to blob the forums to try and win their arguments?
you counter an interceptor at one capture node / sov structure and it just shrugs and goes to another one nothing warps faster than an interceptor so enjoy spewing logarithmically increasing numbers of evemannen to bore out a single interceptor I think you mean "Nothing warps faster than an interceptor using an entosis link that can't even start its warp for 2 minutes..." And the fallacy is revealed...because pretty much everything other than a freighter can do that. ah yes the situation where you use PSYCHIC POWERS to determine which system the interceptor plans on hitting before its entosis module cycles and allows it to exit system |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
311
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:46:06 -
[370] - Quote
xttz wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:This argument over interceptors completely misses the problem with the proposed Entosis mechanic: The "trollceptor" isn't impossible to catch, it's unworthy to catch. People PvP for 4 reasons:
- Fat killmails. Entosis ships will be cheaper than a Retriever.
- Tears of the enemy. Entosis ships are sent out to die, no one will cry over them.
- "Kudos" for being good. An Entosis ship is a lone (very fast) sitting ducks orbiting a structure with a warning sign over it. It'll likely be AFK.
- To win. You'll never win. You can save/take the timer today, but as the enemy suffered no losses, he'll be back. Or someone else, like a drunken highsec miner in a 1 day old alt and takes your Sov if you let down your guard just once.
So a player has zero reason to hunt them. The alliance has, so people will be red pen CTA-d/paplinked into Entosis fleets and will hate it. Living in Sov will be a forever grind of mandatory Entosis-frig hunting. While there were crying over the boredom of structure grind, you could at least hope for an escalation. No one will escalate a tackled frigate. In structure grind, you were at least in a fleet, half-AFK, chatting. In Entosis duty, you'll be all alone, orbiting a structure. If it will be introduced, everyone who considers EVE a game will leave nullsec. The obsessive-compulsive will orbit the structures with 32 accounts (likely with bots). Who are you and why are you making good posts with Gevlon's character
It really has been kinda scary, hasn't it? |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2630
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:47:16 -
[371] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Why should a solo interceptor be the deciding factor for control of an entire system? Or any factor at all?
Why should anyone keep control of a system they don't defend? What entitles them to control of that system if they won't fight for it?
The only time the "solo interceptor" is a sov threat is if it is allowed to capture a sov structure, 11 times. First to reinforce the TCU, and then in ten of the subsequent sovereignty nodes.
I'm sorry, if you can't be assed to defend against one ceptor doing THAT, you don't deserve to hold that particular system.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yep. Interceptors, and whatever counter they can devise against interceptors. Probably more interceptors.
... That their only counter is themselves?
Well that and:
Cormorants, Svipuls, Confessors, Caracals, Cerberii, Cynabals, Instalocking Lokis, Instalocking Gnosis, Vagabonds, Navy Omens, Exequror Navy Issues, Insta Canes, Faction fit Huggins, Faction Fit Rapier, and if they're at long range: Rail Tengus, Rail Eagles, Rail Proteus, Arty Lokis, Cerberii (again), Nagas, Beam Legions, Beam Zealots, Arty Munnin, Faction fit Huggins (again), Faction Fit Rapier (again).
But no, let's just say interceptors are the only thing that can kill an interceptor forced to stay on grid.
Get rekt. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10145
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:48:02 -
[372] - Quote
Gorski Car wrote:There are so many things you can do to counter trollceptors I cant help but think that this is a vocal minority overreacting and creating doomsday scenarios.
This kind of incautious thinking is what causes imbalances in the 1st place. You should be thinking "what if they are right, that would be bad, better to prevent that from happening in the 1st place".
It appears that the csm and ccp wouldn't know prudence if it bit them in the warp engines, which is why all these ideas end up being crap when they are implemented. The only reason people like goons get all these tools to run completely over everything is because of this.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
194
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:48:10 -
[373] - Quote
Leeloo Fee wrote: . remove 'Truesec'
Agreed. Adding treusec killed nullsec income for your line memebers - this is why so many of them have incursion and mission alts in highsec. It's the fastest way for them to make money, and it scales infinitely.
Quote: . remove jump fatigue
**** no. It's nice being able to run around in a gang of six cruisers without worrying about the PL super gang 15 light years away hot dropping you because they're bored.
They do - they constantly upgrade the hardware. And if any of your suggestions would actually work, don't you think they would have done them by now? Please stop spewing nonsense.
Quote: . Interceptor Bubble Immunity
I have to admit, I really don't think ceptors should have been given bubble immunity.
FFS man up and either ignore the cloaky or kill it when it suddenly ninjas. Cloaky campers are not the effing boogey man, and they're not impossible to kill - people kill them fairly frequently in my experience.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
601
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:48:46 -
[374] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:[quote=Kaarous Aldurald] Cormorants, Svipuls, Confessors, Caracals, Cerberii, Cynabals, Instalocking Lokis, Instalocking Gnosis, Vagabonds, Navy Omens, Exequror Navy Issues, Insta Canes, Faction fit Huggins, Faction Fit Rapier, and if they're at long range: Rail Tengus, Rail Eagles, Rail Proteus, Arty Lokis, Cerberii (again), Nagas, Beam Legions, Beam Zealots, Arty Munnin, Faction fit Huggins (again), Faction Fit Rapier (again).
But no, let's just say interceptors are the only thing that can kill an interceptor forced to stay on grid.
Get rekt. would like to see some eft fits/graphs of any of those tracking an interceptor at long range (150km or so) |
1Robert McNamara1
The Graduates Forged of Fire
69
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:49:15 -
[375] - Quote
Not sure if this is the right place for more suggestions but here goes:
- iHub needs 2 timers. It's by far the most valuable thing in the game that causes the most logistical headache. Give it two timers.
- Make it so iHub upgrades can push through the true-sec ceiling so lvl 5 upgrades actually have value in every system irrespective of true-sec. True-sec is still useful for belt-rats and maybe determining top end sites, but the number of sites in total should be decided by the iHub
- The 'Industry' index needs to be mining, salvaging, and PI output at the very least. You need more things contributing to the index that involve industry.
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MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
63
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:50:01 -
[376] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:You and what army is going to force the 5 of us who actually log in with our 6000 accounts each into what constellation? What army do we need? I thought absolutely any single player can just jump in an interceptor and roam about Deklein for a lark...we don't need an army/blob remember? the point is our numbers allow us to defend our sov, but the fact that you need goonswarm federation caliber supernumeracy to hold space is a bit of a problem for anyone else
Well it gets us 1 step closer than the current mechanics....
NOW we cant hold anything since you need a cap blob to grind a bazillion EHP structures..
FUTURE.... at least we can deny YOU (CFC/GOONS) all/most of your sov... save a few systems that you can 24/7 monitor (and even then we will offline your station services cause we can) and or cloaky camp you and strike when you move your "entosis guards"
so .... all and all... its a WIN....
will we take some SOV...yes.... will we lose it.... YES .... will we kill you and have lots of PvP doing it...oHHH YESS
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Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
357
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:51:00 -
[377] - Quote
- Perhaps the Entosis Link should have the same mechanic like a Cyno?
You can warp to it from everywhere in the system and the user is immobile for a certain amount of time. So the user needs backup (--> Grid control) or takes a large risk to lose his ship.
- Exclude ships with the "Interdiction Nullfied" ability from using Entosis Links. Interceptors are just too hard to catch if you are not in a very specialized gang.
- Also, let large ships like Battleships use the Entosis Link significantly faster than smaller ones (not sure about caps here...). Would make up a bit for their lower warpspeed, at least in Sov space. And encourage players to use bigger ships than frigates. |
Borachon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:51:03 -
[378] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:
Its ok..... you can stage out of X-70 and become"NPC trash" as well :)
Be careful what you wish for.
If this happens, basically every ihub iun the game will die within a month, and no one will put up new ones. Anomaly ratting will, as a result, die. If I was GSF leadership (thankfully I'm not), I would keep sov in one consteallation of station systems for industry bonuses and move all combat pilots to NPC nullsec. 5zxx, X-70, and N5y are about to get very full, while almost all of sov 0.0 would be completely empty.
And you think this is better? |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
643
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:52:17 -
[379] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:
Well it gets us 1 step closer than the current mechanics....
NOW we cant hold anything since you need a cap blob to grind a bazillion EHP structures..
FUTURE.... at least we can deny YOU (CFC/GOONS) all/most of your sov... save a few systems that you can 24/7 monitor (and even then we will offline your station services cause we can) and or cloaky camp you and strike when you move your "entosis guards"
so .... all and all... its a WIN....
will we take some SOV...yes.... will we lose it.... YES .... will we kill you and have lots of PvP doing it...oHHH YESS
You underestimate the lengths an alliance will go to in order to monitor things if it has to. It's serious business after all.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
635
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:52:29 -
[380] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote: FUTURE.... at least we can deny YOU (CFC/GOONS) all/most of your sov... save a few systems that you can 24/7 monitor (and even then we will offline your station services cause we can) and or cloaky camp you and strike when you move your "entosis guards"
only so long as you can do it at zero risk, considering how quick you run away anytime you get punched in the nose
hence your zeal for trollceptors, because you know you're going to get murderized if you use any ship that can't flee instantly |
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Princess Cherista
State War Academy Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:52:40 -
[381] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:would like to see some eft fits/graphs of any of those tracking an interceptor at long range (150km or so) They would have to lock it first before it warps off.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
601
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:52:44 -
[382] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:will we kill you and have lots of PvP doing it...oHHH YESS
nah you will grind out sov in interceptors like everyone else
these do not generate pvp |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
63
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:53:06 -
[383] - Quote
Corey Lean wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:so come out and fight...it will be YOUR choice to defend YOUR space or not..... maybe you will have to PvP instead of ratting 24/7 Haha what, people try to fight you all day long but you run away..in your interceptors and stealth bombers. At least you finally came clean about wanting sov though
ohh by fight you mean..... blob 4 various fleets onto our 1 fleet with 5:1 plus ratios?, and then dogpile on all the CFC alliances as well...and then a few caps and dreads to boot.. :)
ohh that kind of fighting....
see we are a Guerrilla force... we strike and move....strike and move... we dont bash our heads into your 30,000 man alliance head on.... why would we?
more goon tears please ....
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
601
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:53:32 -
[384] - Quote
Princess Cherista wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:would like to see some eft fits/graphs of any of those tracking an interceptor at long range (150km or so) They would have to lock it first before it warps off. please do not interject reality into the argument |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
194
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:53:44 -
[385] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:afkalt wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. This also forces specific metas, in opposition to the view that they should not affect the meta - you have to be able to blap interceptors in your fleet composition.
They also simply allow you to evade committing anything to a fight, and if you're attacking sov at the very least you should be risking a single ship. A 100m isk, 2k EHP ship with a billion isk pod? I'm sure they'll be ten-a-penny We toss around supercaps and titans like subcaps. Cost is in no way a barrier.
That's the problem, you know. CCP continues to think it is.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2630
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:53:46 -
[386] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:[quote=Kaarous Aldurald] Cormorants, Svipuls, Confessors, Caracals, Cerberii, Cynabals, Instalocking Lokis, Instalocking Gnosis, Vagabonds, Navy Omens, Exequror Navy Issues, Insta Canes, Faction fit Huggins, Faction Fit Rapier, and if they're at long range: Rail Tengus, Rail Eagles, Rail Proteus, Arty Lokis, Cerberii (again), Nagas, Beam Legions, Beam Zealots, Arty Munnin, Faction fit Huggins (again), Faction Fit Rapier (again).
But no, let's just say interceptors are the only thing that can kill an interceptor forced to stay on grid.
Get rekt. would like to see some eft fits/graphs of any of those tracking an interceptor at long range (150km or so) I'm at work right now, but plug in an Arty Loki into EFT and it wrecks an intty going at 5k at 120km.
Rail Gus will annihialate an inty at 150 going at any speed.
The only thing that intys have going in the current meta is their abillity to bravely run away. Take that away from them, force them to stay on grid, and it's "Lol Inty go Squish". |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
635
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:53:49 -
[387] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote: see we are a Guerrilla force... we strike and move....strike and move... we dont bash our heads into your 30,000 man alliance head on.... why would we?
"we don't do pvp, because we always lose" |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
333
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:53:54 -
[388] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: Because they can be countered by a T1 ewar frig that's even cheaper - so long as there's someone awake in local anyways.
edit: Anyone noticed that goons have to blob the forums to try and win their arguments?
you counter an interceptor at one capture node / sov structure and it just shrugs and goes to another one nothing warps faster than an interceptor so enjoy spewing logarithmically increasing numbers of evemannen to bore out a single interceptor I think you mean "Nothing warps faster than an interceptor using an entosis link that can't even start its warp for 2 minutes..." And the fallacy is revealed...because pretty much everything other than a freighter can do that. ah yes the situation where you use PSYCHIC POWERS to determine which system the interceptor plans on hitting before its entosis module cycles and allows it to exit system This is where living in your space helps. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
4236
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:53:55 -
[389] - Quote
I think there is a lot of unqualified whining in this thread that makes me sad.
CCP Rise, as demonstrated through his recent interview, seems to have a firm grasp of our fears. He also has pretty decent goals, and I, for one, appreciate the work he's put in.
Frankly, I'm not concerned about a troll ceptor, as that can be countered.
I have two main concerns:
1.) I fear the effort involved in RF'ing a structure is much less than the effort needed to secure it post-RF, even when it's uncontested. I feel the effort for the initial RF'ing needs to be comparable to the effort required to re-secure it. Perhaps double the time required to initially RF a structure.
2.) I feel the prime-time window is too small, especially for unused systems. I'm ok with a heavily utilized system having a small vulnerability window, but an unused system should not be isolated from off-time zone attacks. Ideally, you'd have the vulnerability start at 12 hours of vulnerability, and shrink to 4 hours with increased Sov usage indexes.
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John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force The Kadeshi
170
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:54:07 -
[390] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Corey Lean wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:The whole point is to end the sprawling wasteland of empty SOV space.... and this should do it. If a 30,000 man alliance cant have a few people with entosis ships on the standby to stop SOV attacks on thier structures then they dont deserve that space No the point is about fights. Mr. Fozzie the the design goals and end-state of all these changes is to generate fights by controlling the grid through force of arms, not slippery petes or interceptors. So that should exclude the usual suspects from this conversation about sovereignty. so come out and fight...it will be YOUR choice to defend YOUR space or not..... maybe you will have to PvP instead of ratting 24/7? or perhaps you will be forced into 1-5 systems instead of who knows how many you guys "own" And i use the word "own" loosely as they are empty anyway. Forget the past...this is the new future....and it seems to be burning BRIGHT :) What CCP needs to do..is tie POS/moon goo to SOV as well.... so it breaks your ISK control over the game :)
This is a misconception of the issue sov holders have with the proposed changes. My Alliance holds 51 systems of which half (26) have either a Station or an Outpost in them. These systems are held for a variety of reasons, be it jump bridges, moons, good ratting space or strategically important locations for potential wars. AU time zone is the quietest in Eve for the most part so let's say, for example, we have 80 people online during it. Late night Americans, a couple of good AU tz corps.
Under the proposed changes, each structure - TCU, iHUB or Station - can be hacked using the new module. Because a single Interceptor can contest our sov, we need 26 people to cover the Outposts, 51 people on the TCUs and 51 people on the iHubs. That's a total of 128 people needed online to secure our sovereignty. We're 48 men short on being able to protect it.
It isn't about choice. It isn't about whether we want to fight or hide in the station giving you blueballs, it's that under the proposed system, most alliances simply lack the man power available to protect their system. Because of the vulnerability window, this assumes the 80 people we have online are willing to do nothing in Eve ever but camp one of three structures night after night. How long before people bugger off and do something other than null sec? So the alliance ends up with no AU time zone so picks the next quietest one, for example, U.S. time zone. But 128 people in the U.S. time zone don't want to sit there night after night camping one of three structures so they all leave as well. And so on and so forth.
The proposal is ultimately self defeating. |
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