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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
757
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:42:35 -
[481] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:42:48 -
[482] - Quote
Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Killian Cormac wrote:
Interceptors will be able to do nothing to prevent organized defenders from capturing their own nodes.
except generate so many more timers that the pure chaff makes targeting the actual point of defense impossible Command nodes won't generate additional timers, they are either captured or not. Organized defenders will be able to retain sov with trivial ease against a wave of attacking interceptors, since they will be able to capture nodes and the attackers will have to stay out of sensor-damped lock range or die. you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples |
twit brent
Black Anvil Industries SpaceMonkey's Alliance
27
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:44:06 -
[483] - Quote
I am not worried about evasion ceptors, i am worried about interceptors that will warp off and cloak when you respond. The last thing EVE needs is the meta pushed further into cloaky/nullffied ships. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:44:18 -
[484] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Well who coulda guessed this thread was gonna turn into a CFC blob screaming 'trollceptors' ad nauseam and sticking their fingers in their ears? complaining about posting is usually the first sign that you've lost control of the conversation |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
67
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:44:42 -
[485] - Quote
Corey Lean wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:when you "hell camp" us...we just move... You dont have the luxury of moving. If you ever moved away from CFC lands your leader Gevlon Goblin would pull your funding. So if fact, we are not locked in the north with you, you are locked in here with us Nobody has any illusions about the defense of Deklein, it would be trivial no matter what systems they implement but that doesnt mean a ****** system shouldnt be called out. A year from now half the map would be unclaimed because no one wants to invest in areas that can be conquered by cowards in stinky petes.
Wow what a reversal..... your actually after us now.... cool.... it will save us the 15 jumps each day.
Yeah because x-70, roir, saranen, and taisy ect ect are Soooo far away to base out of to kill CfC /goons
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
316
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:44:44 -
[486] - Quote
Querns wrote:Kaylee Fonza wrote:Arkon Olacar wrote:Jaro Essa wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. You won't have to kill the interceptor. With your own entosis link active on the structure or command node, no progress can be made towards the timer. Though, if you can't kill one interceptor, why should you have sov?. Sure, but no progress in either direction would be made while both links were active. You just reach a stalemate, where your fleet is rendered useless by a single interceptor, burning at 7-8km/s at 100-150km. That's just dumb mechanics. If the interceptor is flying at 100-150km, 1 celestis can make is useless. The interceptor disengages, and uses its superior agility and warp speed to move to another capturable object. The celestis cannot keep up with an interceptor. The ability for an interceptor to be countered while sitting at one beacon was never in question. The interceptor's ability to disengage and travel with impunity is the issue.
Minimum time 2 min for first cykle + 10 min - I think you are underestimating the celestis speed. I'm pretty sure celestis can cover healthy amount of space in ~10 minutes. Unless ofc inty runs into some other guys territory in which case it's no longer the celestis guy problem. Chase it 2-3 jumps and go back to ratting in your home system.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
336
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:44:50 -
[487] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples And this doesn't affect the CFC 1000x more than a group with only one structure to defend? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:45:15 -
[488] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target. combat probes show up on dscan
the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
336
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:45:49 -
[489] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:complaining about posting is usually the first sign that you've lost control of the conversation Conversation? This is like a preschool tantrum! |
Killian Cormac
Cormac Distribution
4
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:45:50 -
[490] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples
Which spawn their own command nodes two days later, which is then undone in 30 minutes by 5 people. |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3208
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:46:28 -
[491] - Quote
When thinking about "evasion fits" and how to counter them, consider how an attacker will use an evasion fit. 1) Warp on grid at 100 km 2) Activate Entosis link, while orbiting you maximum range (may be limited by targeting). 3) D-scan for incoming 4) When someone is incoming, burn off. 5) Keep going until your link finishes its cycle, then warp to the next target. As that is no more than 120 seconds, you only need stay out of range for that time. Unless the defenders have a ship that is 1000 m/sec faster than you, you will get away. If they do have such a ship, then copy it next time.
CCP: Another thing to consider is the Entosis link range. What is the thinking behind 200 km? Maybe the ranges should be 10k for T1, and 20k for T2. Get those interceptors somewhere where they can be sniped before they burn out of range.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
316
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:47:20 -
[492] - Quote
Kaylee Fonza wrote:Querns wrote:Capqu wrote:if the grid is contested inteceptors are actually useless guys, their lockrange is so pathetic that one or two damps means there is no way they can keep their entosis link active
i think the main issue around interceptors is their ability to move 100% safely behind camps and entosis uncontested systems which should be protected by camped choke points This is the core of the issue. As a sov haver of any size, I should be able to use the geography of my holdings in its defense. Being able to deny entry to my holdings should pay dividends in the security of my empire. Interceptors ignore all geography because, while traveling, they cannot be caught. Interceptors also have superlative disengagement ability, which converts the entire process of defending sov from defeating a gang of rabble-rousers to keepign a large group of counter-interceptors in a central location during your primetime, then dispatching them as blips pop up on the Sov Radar of choice. No actual PvP occurs in this scenario, it's just two interceptors weakly applying the sov laser to the same target in an attempt to bore each other into submission. Alternatively, I guess you could park a single supercap on every possible defensive target during your primetime. Thanks to fatigue, this is more viable than you'd think. Unless one of the interceptor brings damps, and wins the sov laser fight
Interceptor needs its mids for sebos to be able lock at "troll" ranges.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Captain H4rlock
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:47:24 -
[493] - Quote
Iski Zuki DaSen wrote:E-Link can be fitted in :
Ceptors frigates destroyers = NO Cruisers = Maybe Battlecruisers = YES YES HELL YES ( brings a reason for peeps to actually use them once again ) Batleships =yes Carriers= maybe Supers= NO NO NO HELL NO
+1 |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:49:20 -
[494] - Quote
Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples Which spawn their own command nodes two days later, which is then undone in 30 minutes by 5 people. so one uncatchable attacker should require five or more people to counter then eh |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2846
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:49:26 -
[495] - Quote
Takeshi Kumamato wrote:A lightweight method to discourage trollceptors:
When the entosis link is active, prevent propulsion mods from cycling. The entosis link can be turned off at any time. The entosis link has a one minute reactivation timer.
This makes it very frustrating to try to use the link unless you've gained control of the field, as you need to turn off the link every time you need to run away, get reps, or warp off. But every time the link turns off, you have to wait a minute before trying again. While this won't completely discourage the use of trollceptors, it doesn't interfere as much as other suggestions with the intended use of the links. Great idea.
Potential Modification: Entosis link can be only be turned off at end of cycle - like a cyno except entosis link does not show up in local. Then there is a decent amount of risk involved, but no risk where nobody is in system. Entosis link module cycles in: 30 sec - somebody shows up in local, entosis dude has decent chance of bailing. 1 min - Somebody in system can pop him if the defender is on the ball. 2 min - Somebody within one jump can pop him if the defender is on the ball. 4 min - Somebody within 3 jumps can pop him. etc...
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:50:09 -
[496] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:complaining about posting is usually the first sign that you've lost control of the conversation Conversation? This is like a preschool tantrum! You and your compatriots only have yourselves to blame. |
Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:50:22 -
[497] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples Which spawn their own command nodes two days later, which is then undone in 30 minutes by 5 people. so one uncatchable attacker should require five or more people to counter then eh
Or one ship to undock and warp to you so you get scared and run away when you see it 14au's away on d-scan...... |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2634
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:50:23 -
[498] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Holy **** you're bad. I could link you a ship that owns interceptors up to 150km, and you'll still moan like a stuck pig. And you know what? I'm gonna do just that. Behold the mighty eagle: Eagle: http://imgur.com/KYZDvc5
Eagle vs. MWD Stiletto: http://imgur.com/v537Sv8
185 DPS at 120km 60 DPS at 150km. Uses thorium if you're wondering (don't be bad by using spike). If, by some miracle, the inty locks at 150km, it's fit is so bad that those 60dps will massacre it. Please. Stop. Being. Bad. ah yes the interceptor that is polite enough to sit inside the eagle's optimal long enough to arrive from 14AU away, decelerate from warp, lock, and fire on it Are you really that bad? Read the graph again. http://imgur.com/v537Sv8
With thorium loaded, against a stiletto moving at speed it does 50 dps at 50km 185 dps at 120km 60 dps at 150km
THIS KILLS YOUR 150 KM LOCKING INTERCEPTOR IN AN ENVELOPE FROM 50KM to 150km. WHILE IT'S MOVING. AT 5KM/S. |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
67
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:51:05 -
[499] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target. combat probes show up on dscan the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers
DO YOU GUYS EVEN PVP?
are you telling me you are incapable of killing ceptors?
you just alpha them off the grid.... lock target.... POP..... ceptor gone....
heck you even know the max range of where they have to be around a given structure...
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Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
315
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:51:06 -
[500] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Ann Markson wrote:While the Trolleceptor thing itself is a useless rage it adresses another issue. Currently the majority of Sov Null systems is worth ****. Alliances hold entire regions to have access to 10% of their systems in which people actually can rat at isk/h rates significantly above highsec levels.
People are mad because noone wants to life or be in the -0.1 or -0.2 systems because it adds a lot of effort while not giving access to anything worth much more in terms of income abilitiy. So People hold large chunks of sov to use a very few parts of it now rage because the parts they dont use would be reinforced constantly, but are effectively not worth using at all, thus have no place in occupancy based Sov.
If CCP wants occupancy based Sov to work the truesecs either need a rework, or the anomaly system does in a way that makes the majority of Sov systems worth holding, not the minority of them.
One could argue that it doesnt has any place here, but with Sov being a very complex topic we need to adress each part of it simultaneously.
Simple, if the particular system is not worth holding it for the current holder, he does not use it or live in it he should just let it go. Let some poor newbie entity try to set up in there and RF it daily just for lols. Sov has in the past been battle of will, before the supercap blobs turned dials to 11. And it seems it will be so again.
The bottom line is that if CCP is going to make it much easier for sov to be reinforced and for sov upgrade structures to be destroyed then it also needs to significantly buff the value of low end nullsec systems to make them worth the hassle or massively nerf hisec income so that the unbuffed sov null systems become more attractive/worthwhile to occupy. |
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1452
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:51:09 -
[501] - Quote
Just prevent Entosis Links from being fitted on frigates and cruisers or else I may overdose with nullbears tears...
The Tears Must Flow
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6167
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:51:25 -
[502] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:However, if you continue to pose your arguments as :
We want good fights.
this is where you've lost the thread at no point is goonswarm federation interested in good fights defense of our empire comes first, subjugation of those who would even think of attacking our empire comes second, subjugation of everyone else comes third fights occasionally occur in the process of completing these two objectives but are completely tangential to our desires and goals
That was pretty slick. Excellent avoidance of every relevant point in the post.
Nice to know some things never change.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:51:26 -
[503] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples Which spawn their own command nodes two days later, which is then undone in 30 minutes by 5 people. so one uncatchable attacker should require five or more people to counter then eh Or one ship to undock and warp to you so you get scared and run away when you see it 14au's away on d-scan...... and then proceed to another capture object and start over |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
316
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:52:02 -
[504] - Quote
DeadDuck wrote:Harkin Issier wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. This also forces specific metas, in opposition to the view that they should not affect the meta - you have to be able to blap interceptors in your fleet composition.
They also simply allow you to evade committing anything to a fight, and if you're attacking sov at the very least you should be risking a single ship. Kiting trollceptors need LOTS of room to burn around in, putting them in the 100+km range. All you need to do to counter them is fit sensor damps. Congrats, your interceptor is now useless. "Step into my fleet's optimal range", said the Lachesis to the Crow. Hey what about if the troll ceptor comes with 3 or 4 normal ceptors along? What you think will happen to the maulus or whatever ? It's the question of agility also... a ceptor can be in 1 system and 5 minutes after can be at 10 jumps out doing the same thing again... to the same alliance...
So its a problem that 1 ships cant take on 5 ships? By the same token what prevents me from "sov trolling" in falcon with covert cyno and bomber wing in jump range?
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:52:11 -
[505] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:However, if you continue to pose your arguments as :
We want good fights.
this is where you've lost the thread at no point is goonswarm federation interested in good fights defense of our empire comes first, subjugation of those who would even think of attacking our empire comes second, subjugation of everyone else comes third fights occasionally occur in the process of completing these two objectives but are completely tangential to our desires and goals That was pretty slick. Excellent avoidance of every relevant point in the post. Nice to know some things never change. when i can topple the entire post by refuting its primary fulcrum with a minimum of effort i will usually choose that option |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
757
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:52:17 -
[506] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target. combat probes show up on dscan the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers You're stuck for 2 minutes with the module active. More than enough time to land on the structure, probe you, warp to you from within 250km, and kill you.
Trollceptors are not invulnerable, and are irrelevant to any entity that is willing to defend their space. They will never cap / RF a single node from anyone who doesn't totally suck. Period.
The fact that you're trying to get them nerfed so hard so fast has a lot more to do with how much Gewns have been bawling about Interceptor bubble immunity since it was introduced to the game. It's simply more problematic for you all if it can impact sov as well.
I notice that noone is whining about cloaking nullified T3s with even longer lock ranges, more DPS, more EHP, and self rep capability can use these same modules.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
337
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:52:56 -
[507] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Conversation? This is like a preschool tantrum! You and your compatriots only have yourselves to blame. Nuh-uh, you!
/rests my case. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:53:05 -
[508] - Quote
Carniflex wrote: So its a problem that 1 ships cant take on 5 ships? By the same token what prevents me from "sov trolling" in falcon with covert cyno and bomber wing in jump range?
interdictor bubbles |
Killian Cormac
Cormac Distribution
4
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:53:58 -
[509] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples Which spawn their own command nodes two days later, which is then undone in 30 minutes by 5 people. so one uncatchable attacker should require five or more people to counter then eh
Apples/oranges. A trollceptor isn't an 'attacker'. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2634
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:54:22 -
[510] - Quote
As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges.
There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU.
In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy.
Pic 1 Pic 2 |
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