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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:55:15 -
[511] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Killian Cormac wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:you don't capture command nodes, you go to other systems and generate more initial RF timers while the defenders are busy whacking pimples Which spawn their own command nodes two days later, which is then undone in 30 minutes by 5 people. so one uncatchable attacker should require five or more people to counter then eh Or one ship to undock and warp to you so you get scared and run away when you see it 14au's away on d-scan...... and then proceed to another capture object and start over
And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty? |
captain fovios
November 17th Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:55:56 -
[512] - Quote
Iski Zuki DaSen wrote:E-Link can be fitted in :
Ceptors frigates destroyers = NO Cruisers = Maybe Battlecruisers = YES YES HELL YES ( brings a reason for peeps to actually use them once again ) Batleships =yes Carriers= maybe Supers= NO NO NO HELL NO
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6167
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:56:11 -
[513] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:However, if you continue to pose your arguments as :
We want good fights.
this is where you've lost the thread at no point is goonswarm federation interested in good fights defense of our empire comes first, subjugation of those who would even think of attacking our empire comes second, subjugation of everyone else comes third fights occasionally occur in the process of completing these two objectives but are completely tangential to our desires and goals That was pretty slick. Excellent avoidance of every relevant point in the post. Nice to know some things never change. when i can topple the entire post by refuting its primary fulcrum with a minimum of effort i will usually choose that option Glad to hear it. Not that you did of course... as that was far from it's primary point.
But you knew that already didn't you?
A little secret... so does everyone else.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:56:16 -
[514] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target. combat probes show up on dscan the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers You're stuck for 2 minutes with the module active. More than enough time to land on the structure, probe you, warp to you from within 250km, and kill you. Trollceptors are not invulnerable, and are irrelevant to any entity that is willing to defend their space. They will never cap / RF a single node from anyone who doesn't totally suck. Period. The fact that you're trying to get them nerfed so hard so fast has a lot more to do with how much Gewns have been bawling about Interceptor bubble immunity since it was introduced to the game. It's simply more problematic for you all if it can impact sov as well. I notice that noone is whining about cloaking nullified T3s with even longer lock ranges, more DPS, more EHP, and self rep capability can use these same modules. an interceptor uses the time to burn off grid, and you aren't guaranteed to notice the interceptor immediately when its cycle renews; most often it will have <1m on its timer
covert nullified strat cruisers are much slower than interceptors both in impulse speed and warp speed, and are actually possible to catch; i have fond memories of pulling two DG Invulns off of a covert nullified loki that I decloaked and caught in a gatecamp once (well, back when those were actually worth something) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6576
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:56:26 -
[515] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target. combat probes show up on dscan the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers DO YOU GUYS EVEN PVP? are you telling me you are incapable of killing ceptors? you just alpha them off the grid.... lock target.... POP..... ceptor gone.... heck you even know the max range of where they have to be around a given structure... Sheesh, why worry so much?
You don't even have sov, rather, you get to be the one with the interceptors.
Oh I see, you want things left as is so you get to use the interceptors. Clever use of the discussion
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2634
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:57:03 -
[516] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:
DO YOU GUYS EVEN PVP?
Just ignore promiscuous, the guy's a troll. You can provide them a fit that will kill these "5km/s 150km-locking-trollceptors" in an envelope from 50km to 150km and they'll still go "LOLOLOLOLOL NO INTY INVINCIBLE TROLOLOLOLO." |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:57:23 -
[517] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges. There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU. In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy. Pic 1Pic 2 orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:58:28 -
[518] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Glad to hear it. Not that you did of course... as that was far from it's primary point. But you knew that already didn't you? A little secret... so does everyone else. nah, your post was "you want good fights yet you do all this crap that prevents you from getting them thus you are a hypocrite"
when good fights are not really on our list of desires |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15433
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:58:39 -
[519] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Holy **** you're bad. I could link you a ship that owns interceptors up to 150km, and you'll still moan like a stuck pig. And you know what? I'm gonna do just that. Behold the mighty eagle: Eagle: http://imgur.com/KYZDvc5 Eagle vs. MWD Stiletto: http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 185 DPS at 120km 60 DPS at 150km. Uses thorium if you're wondering (don't be bad by using spike). If, by some miracle, the inty locks at 150km, it's fit is so bad that those 60dps will massacre it. Please. Stop. Being. Bad. ah yes the interceptor that is polite enough to sit inside the eagle's optimal long enough to arrive from 14AU away, decelerate from warp, lock, and fire on it Are you really that bad?Read the graph again. http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 With thorium loaded, against a stiletto moving at speed it does 50 dps at 50km 185 dps at 120km 60 dps at 150km THIS KILLS YOUR 150 KM LOCKING INTERCEPTOR IN AN ENVELOPE FROM 50KM to 150km. WHILE IT'S MOVING. AT 5KM/S.
60 dps isnt going to kill anything. These cepters are not going to sit there and let you pepper them with bb guns, they will eith be out of range when you land our out of range when you lock them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2634
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:58:52 -
[520] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges. There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU. In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy. Pic 1Pic 2 orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid Remind me, how far does your inty lock? |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6576
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:59:19 -
[521] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Glad to hear it. Not that you did of course... as that was far from it's primary point. But you knew that already didn't you? A little secret... so does everyone else. nah, your post was "you want good fights yet you do all this crap that prevents you from getting them thus you are a hypocrite" when good fights are not really on our list of desires Remember the whole ncdot in fountain, only going where there's action, ie: backto grind their renter space after sovdrop?
Yeahhh
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:59:32 -
[522] - Quote
Acuma wrote:And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty? you leave the system and abuse your best-in-class warp speed to get to another beacon |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:00:32 -
[523] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges. There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU. In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy. Pic 1Pic 2 orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid Remind me, how far does your inty lock? your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range
at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
337
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:01:39 -
[524] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range
at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape At which point the defender's objective of ... defending ...is complete
1-0 defence without even landing on grid. |
Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:01:58 -
[525] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty? you leave the system and abuse your best-in-class warp speed to get to another beacon And if they are also in a inty? Pretty sure they warp just as fast. How far do you think an inty can travel in the 12-40 or so minutes it takes to RF a system? |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
289
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:02:08 -
[526] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Super Noodle wrote:Fozzie, can you please scrap this entire plan you've come up with to rework sov and start over from scratch. It's garbage. No, it's really not. There are some issues, but it's better than what we have now. Of course tunnelling out of Alcatraz with a plastic spoon would be better than what we have now.
Why yes, Fozzie Sov is really garbage at this state. Even pre-Dominion sov with pos control is better than Fozzie Sov, and that should be telling. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2634
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 19:02:31 -
[527] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Holy **** you're bad. I could link you a ship that owns interceptors up to 150km, and you'll still moan like a stuck pig. And you know what? I'm gonna do just that. Behold the mighty eagle: Eagle: http://imgur.com/KYZDvc5 Eagle vs. MWD Stiletto: http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 185 DPS at 120km 60 DPS at 150km. Uses thorium if you're wondering (don't be bad by using spike). If, by some miracle, the inty locks at 150km, it's fit is so bad that those 60dps will massacre it. Please. Stop. Being. Bad. ah yes the interceptor that is polite enough to sit inside the eagle's optimal long enough to arrive from 14AU away, decelerate from warp, lock, and fire on it Are you really that bad?Read the graph again. http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 With thorium loaded, against a stiletto moving at speed it does 50 dps at 50km 185 dps at 120km 60 dps at 150km THIS KILLS YOUR 150 KM LOCKING INTERCEPTOR IN AN ENVELOPE FROM 50KM to 150km. WHILE IT'S MOVING. AT 5KM/S. 60 dps isnt going to kill anything. These cepters are not going to sit there and pepper them with bb guns, they will eith be out of range when you land our out of range when you lock them.
Jesus christ.
An interceptor fit to lock AT 150 FRICKEN KILOMETERS DOES NOT HAVE A TANK. 60DPS will murder **** kill it,
If the inty "only" locks at 90km the eagle will kill it with 170 dps. The Cerberus will kill it with 300-400 RLML dps (90km inty, 137km range missile, do the math).
Baltec, even you aren't this dumb. |
Proton Stars
OREfull
67
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:02:32 -
[528] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:This argument over interceptors completely misses the problem with the proposed Entosis mechanic: The "trollceptor" isn't impossible to catch, it's unworthy to catch. People PvP for 4 reasons:
- Fat killmails. Entosis ships will be cheaper than a Retriever.
- Tears of the enemy. Entosis ships are sent out to die, no one will cry over them.
- "Kudos" for being good. An Entosis ship is a lone (very fast) sitting ducks orbiting a structure with a warning sign over it. It'll likely be AFK.
- To win. You'll never win. You can save/take the timer today, but as the enemy suffered no losses, he'll be back. Or someone else, like a drunken highsec miner in a 1 day old alt and takes your Sov if you let down your guard just once.
So a player has zero reason to hunt them. The alliance has, so people will be red pen CTA-d/paplinked into Entosis fleets and will hate it. Living in Sov will be a forever grind of mandatory Entosis-frig hunting. While there were crying over the boredom of structure grind, you could at least hope for an escalation. No one will escalate a tackled frigate. In structure grind, you were at least in a fleet, half-AFK, chatting. In Entosis duty, you'll be all alone, orbiting a structure. If it will be introduced, everyone who considers EVE a game will leave nullsec. The obsessive-compulsive will orbit the structures with 32 accounts (likely with bots).
so much sense. cant handle. wow |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:03:03 -
[529] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range
at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape At which point the defender's objective of ... defending ...is complete 1-0 defence without even landing on grid. agreed, they have managed to defend that one objective in significantly less agile ships
now the interceptor is RFing something else, better waddle out at 3 AU/s to the next beacon or bring a logarithmically increasing number of defenders to stop one person |
Iudicium Vastus
Incognito Holdings and Savings
320
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:03:08 -
[530] - Quote
Wow, people are too lazy to undock a maulus or two to damp out any 'trollceptor' into tighter engagement range and rather claim sky is falling. Or a griffin is fine too.
[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just..
-Fit more points
-Fit faction points
-Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2634
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 19:03:29 -
[531] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges. There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU. In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy. Pic 1Pic 2 orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid Remind me, how far does your inty lock? your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape So what you're saying is:
Anyone that can be assed to defend their space will succeed. WELL DONE, FULL MARKS SHERLOCK. |
Princess Cherista
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 19:03:57 -
[532] - Quote
Let only battleships and above have enough power grid for an entosis link. Wheres the risk and reward if you can fit a sov laser to a frigate?
At least battleships would be used for something again. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:04:08 -
[533] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty? you leave the system and abuse your best-in-class warp speed to get to another beacon And if they are also in a inty? Pretty sure they warp just as fast. How far do you think an inty can travel in the 12-40 or so minutes it takes to RF a system? have you ever tried to keep up with another interceptor if you don't know where it is going and they have a head start |
Jaiimez Skor
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
121
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:04:43 -
[534] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:While brawling doctrines would be far from optimal I think the HIC will see a fair bit of use as an Entosis platform from smaller groups.
Bubble up to hopefully catch reinforcements you're not getting reps anyway.
TBH I think you're more likely to see brick tanked Damnations and Proteus' with 600k+ EHP (even after the HP nerf for T3's a proteus will get 600/700k ehp if brick tanked).
As far as ways of fixing the concern of snaked out "trollceptors" then maybe as well as remote reps have a reduction to the effectiveness of propulsion mods, I disagree with disabling propulsion mods, but say a 60% reduction in the efficiency of propulsion module speed boosts should be plenty, so instead of doing 7km/s it'll only do about 4/4.5 which is easily cachable. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 19:04:55 -
[535] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:As mentioned, the Eagle and the Cerb both annihilate Intys at extreme ranges. There were, however, some questions from the slower parts of the class on how a cerb would hit an inty moving at, say, 137km from a TCU. In order to help with that, I drew a picture. 2 Pictures, in fact. Enjoy. Pic 1Pic 2 orbiting a target would be extremely stupid in a trollceptor, you want to sit at a point far away from any celestials and burn at an angle off grid Remind me, how far does your inty lock? your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape So what you're saying is: Anyone that can be assed to defend their space will succeed. WELL DONE, FULL MARKS SHERLOCK. i hear that successfully defending one objective counts as defending the whole of your space when you have more than one system |
Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:05:08 -
[536] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:And if there's even one person in system you just play a game of jumping from gate to gate......if there's not even one person in system, why have sovereignty? you leave the system and abuse your best-in-class warp speed to get to another beacon And if they are also in a inty? Pretty sure they warp just as fast. How far do you think an inty can travel in the 12-40 or so minutes it takes to RF a system? have you ever tried to keep up with another interceptor if you don't know where it is going and they have a head start
Answering with a question? How far do you think an inty can travel in the 12-40 or so minutes it takes to RF a system? Cause they will know when you start to RF it........
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
316
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:05:22 -
[537] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:Arkon Olacar wrote:Hero owns 98 systems in Catch, and 38 stations. We now need 136 mauluses to spend 4 hours a night sitting on an ihub/station. Except of course if these trollceptors have any kind of weapons, it can kill the maulus, so we partner them with a RLML caracal to prevent that from happening. There, we've kept one of the most densely populated regions in the game save from trollceptors, and it only costs us 1088 man hours per night! I think you're missing the point. (Not just you, but you stated your (major Sov holder's) point eloquently enough.) If it's a bother to defend your sovereignty, then 1) maybe you should question the amount you possess and 2) if you're not willing to put forth the effort to defend it, then perhaps it should be lost. I'm not speaking specifically to the trollceptor "ruckus" per se; it's more addressing the complaints that defending sovereignty will be too difficult. Sovereignty shouldn't so easy to defend that you can do it with a corp full of dis-interested recruits. If you want to keep sov, then it should be something that you and your corp want to defend. As it is, CCP is giving Sov holders the ability to lock out people from reinforcing their structures until a time set by the owner. If the owner can't find it in them to defend their home in a nice four hour block of their choosing, then it sounds more like the sov holder should reassess their priorities. Bolded the important part. You've hit the nail on the head here. These mechanics cause too much grief for the defender to be worth the benefits of holding sov. The end result will be people moving out of sov null, with sov holders largely staging and living out of nearby NPC nullsec or lowsec, holding regions as a form of content generation rather than actually living there. These mechanics as currently proposed would kill off nullsec, not revitalise it.
If you cant hold sov then someone else who can will. NPC null is not probably the heaven you are looking for as it's in essence a low sec with bubbles and without the recent low sec boosts (special spawns, etc).
However, living in there will make you good (better?) at pvp quite likely. At least compared to pressing F1 and orbiting anchor like in current "traditional" sov meta.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Princess Cherista
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2015.03.09 19:05:32 -
[538] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Anyone that can be assed to defend their space will succeed. WELL DONE, FULL MARKS SHERLOCK. But who wants to chase interceptors around for 4 hours a night or whatever the primetime is for no fight and no kills. Do you??
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
337
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 19:05:48 -
[539] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:your assumption is that i would want to stay on grid to try to capture the objective when an obvious anti-interceptor ship waddles into dscan range
at that point the objective is already lost and the primary objective is to escape At which point the defender's objective of ... defending ...is complete 1-0 defence without even landing on grid. agreed, they have managed to defend that one objective in significantly less agile ships now the interceptor is RFing something else, better waddle out at 3 AU/s to the next beacon or bring a logarithmically increasing number of defenders to stop one person Nope, just go back to ratting, let the local defenders in the new location deal with this minor pest.
It's like a wasp at a picnic, do you have one guy running around flapping at it shooing it away from all the diners or does each diner look after their own personal space and periodically raise a lazy hand to waft it away to its next place of rest? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
603
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 19:06:03 -
[540] - Quote
Jaiimez Skor wrote:Ilaister wrote:While brawling doctrines would be far from optimal I think the HIC will see a fair bit of use as an Entosis platform from smaller groups.
Bubble up to hopefully catch reinforcements you're not getting reps anyway. TBH I think you're more likely to see brick tanked Damnations and Proteus' with 600k+ EHP (even after the HP nerf for T3's a proteus will get 600/700k ehp if brick tanked). As far as ways of fixing the concern of snaked out "trollceptors" then maybe as well as remote reps have a reduction to the effectiveness of propulsion mods, I disagree with disabling propulsion mods, but say a 60% reduction in the efficiency of propulsion module speed boosts should be plenty, so instead of doing 7km/s it'll only do about 4/4.5 which is easily cachable. this is one of many options that would discourage the use of interceptors as the primary vehicle for contesting sov
however since ccp refuses to commit to any one of these, we are forced to assume that they aren't coming |
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