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Hitpoint boost and artilleries

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.11.24 22:28:00 - [271] The HP boost went down from yesterday's test build. At least it did on the hurricane.
Theron Gyrow Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:17:00 - [272] Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 27/11/2006 09:17:54 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 21:49:57 Originally by: Crewman Jenkins Looks like theres a 5% increase on the damage mod on test. 7.245 instead of 6.9 now for t2. They also boosted boosted ships, shields and plates with 25-50%, so the extra 5% damage to artillery isnt very impressive. But I think it puts it on par with railguns... A bit above them for RoF/damage bonus ships, actually, and at zero cap cost. As I see it, the Gallente railship/Minmatar artilleryship situation post-patch is (with one damage bonus on rails, with damage/RoF bonus on artilleries): Major advantage, railship: Optimal range Ease of fitting gridwise One "free" ship bonus (too bad this is often wasted on active tanking/MWD, tracking is at least semi-useful also with rails) Minor advantage, railship: Tracking (very minor without ship bonus) Larger magazines Minor disadvantage, railship: Lower damage Lower falloff Only kinetic/thermal damage Higher ammo consumption Low alpha strike Major disadvantage, railship: High, often unsustainable cap use Very high CPU requirements Major advantage, artyship: Zero cap use Ease of fitting CPUwise Minor advantage, artyship: Better DoT Better alpha strike Better falloff Some options to change damage type Lower ammo consumption Minor disadvantage, artyship: Tracking Smaller magazines Major disadvantage, artyship: Shorter optimal range High grid requirements Balanced? Possibly - and if not, it's the rails that are the worse off. I do not think that the 5% damage increase is/was necessary, and I do think that it might be a good idea to change the Controlled Bursts skill to -10% cap use per level, but it's probably time to see how it goes. Did I forget anything? -- NMTZ forum
Gimpslayer	Posted - 2006.11.27 17:43:00 - [273] y'all kiss so much tuxford ass it makes me nauseous.
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.11.28 00:32:00 - [274] So, you don't think the shorter optimal range disadvantage amplifies the tracking disadvantage on arty?
Kamikaze	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:54:00 - [275] I like to see a differnce between ships and there guns, if there all balanced then whats the point? Just use tactics that favor you gunnry and try not to get drawn into a fight that favors another ships gunnry. With that said, i haven't seen it here, if i missed it sorry. Since i stink with numbers as anyone did any numbers for the "Mach" with mim bs 5 galy bs 5 and maxed gunnry for long and short range. how does it compare to the other ships dps.
Qutsemnie Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.03 10:31:00 - [276] Edited by: Qutsemnie on 03/12/2006 10:45:50 "Balanced? Possibly - and if not, it's the rails that are the worse off" You know thats one of those arguments where you can get caught up in the details and maybe go back and forth. But when you read that sentence I think if you have at all fought with both you go "what? theres no way rails are worse off than arty..." BTW I dont think that tracking advantage is as minor as you make it out to be. Of everything im about to say the most annoying thing about the arties is there tracking. And there is alot of situations where that "minor" advantage is the difference between hitting and not hitting at all. The arty have serious issues with cruisers in pve where a railgun would handle the same range and travesle easy. the 1400s stop tracking well on cruisers at relatively far range. The ammo "disadvantage" on rails usually manifest as an advantage in pve in my experience. The variety of damage types in a 1400 is also tied to a range/damage amount. So that you cant just switch you have to switch and go the appropriate range and sacrifice overall dps in alot of context. I called the hybrid damage type advantage because in alot of situations while trying to use arty ammo you look over at hybrid ammo and go damn I wish I could use that...
Melicien Tetro Gallente FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:52:00 - [277] Originally by: Kharo Khann I agree with Testy,.. T2 art is nearly useless with the nerfed Quake ammo. To hit something you have to sit still and shoot, which is rather unnatural for "fast and agile" Minmatar ships. I don't know if slowing down for a huge alpha-strike is so big a disadvantage. I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be damned if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story.
Theron Gyrow Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 09:10:00 - [278] Originally by: Qutsemnie BTW I dont think that tracking advantage is as minor as you make it out to be. Of everything im about to say the most annoying thing about the arties is there tracking. And there is alot of situations where that "minor" advantage is the difference between hitting and not hitting at all. The arty have serious issues with cruisers in pve where a railgun would handle the same range and travesle easy. the 1400s stop tracking well on cruisers at relatively far range. Basic advantage in tracking: 150mm rails vs 280mm artys: 6.1% 250mm rails vs 720mm artys: 4.5% 425mm rails vs 1400mm artys: 6.9% I'd call that pretty minor, to be honest. If you include the Megathron ship bonus (listed under "Major advantage, railship" as the free available bonus), then the tracking difference absolutely matters, and matters a lot. Originally by: Qutsemnie The ammo "disadvantage" on rails usually manifest as an advantage in pve in my experience. The variety of damage types in a 1400 is also tied to a range/damage amount. So that you cant just switch you have to switch and go the appropriate range and sacrifice overall dps in alot of context. I called the hybrid damage type advantage because in alot of situations while trying to use arty ammo you look over at hybrid ammo and go damn I wish I could use that... Heh. I do still believe that being able to go for known resistance holes gives an increase to the effective DoT, but I'm willing to count that as a "grass is greener" (non-)advantage. -- NMTZ forum
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:13:00 - [279] Tux, unstick this if you arent going to reply to it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Almarez	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:47:00 - [280] Originally by: Tuxford Lets start this by taking a look at this image. Artilleries have the advantage of not using cap but imo that is not really that great advantage but an advantage nonetheless. In all other aspects its ranks low, except in alpha damage which usefulness has been somewhat diminished. Tux, Please don't look at the lack of cap usage as a slight advantage, please look at the cap usage on Amarr and Gallente ships (especially Amarr) as a huge disadvantage. Some of us have been discussing. Was it an Amarr pilot that gave you your first pod kill and that is why you hate us so?
Almarez	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:54:00 - [281] Originally by: Old Geeza OMG HE POSTED ABOUT MINMATAR INSTEAD OF AMARR DISPITE HIM ALREADY SAYING HE'S LOOKING AT AMARR. TUXFORD FOR THE LOOOOOSEEEE!!!! Grow up and wait. Quote: Fair enough Old, I guess we would also like to see some ideas of what he is planning to help us enjoy this game again. As much as I like DOW - Dark Crusade, I miss getting on Eve but I'm just not enjoying this game any more.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.18 11:29:00 - [282] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Tuxford Lets start this by taking a look at this image. Artilleries have the advantage of not using cap but imo that is not really that great advantage but an advantage nonetheless. In all other aspects its ranks low, except in alpha damage which usefulness has been somewhat diminished. Tux, Please don't look at the lack of cap usage as a slight advantage, please look at the cap usage on Amarr and Gallente ships (especially Amarr) as a huge disadvantage. Some of us have been discussing. Was it an Amarr pilot that gave you your first pod kill and that is why you hate us so? take the equivalent to arties that is rails.. and you will see that cap usage is of minimal significance. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Almarez	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:29:00 - [283] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Tuxford Lets start this by taking a look at this image. Artilleries have the advantage of not using cap but imo that is not really that great advantage but an advantage nonetheless. In all other aspects its ranks low, except in alpha damage which usefulness has been somewhat diminished. Tux, Please don't look at the lack of cap usage as a slight advantage, please look at the cap usage on Amarr and Gallente ships (especially Amarr) as a huge disadvantage. Some of us have been discussing. Was it an Amarr pilot that gave you your first pod kill and that is why you hate us so? take the equivalent to arties that is rails.. and you will see that cap usage is of minimal significance. Not sure what you mean. Can you explain differently?
Atha'an	Posted - 2006.12.19 02:40:00 - [284] Basic advantage in tracking: 150mm rails vs 280mm artys: 6.1% 250mm rails vs 720mm artys: 4.5% 425mm rails vs 1400mm artys: 6.9% I'd call that pretty minor, to be honest. I dont think this is completely relevant: if you can hit with rails and you cant with arties, then even this 'minor difference' means the rails are better. Plus a difference of 10% is all you get with tracking enhancers, and if 6.9% is 'minor' why even EVER fit a tracking enhancher or even CPU? (granted CPU's do really make the difference larger, but thats not the point)
Omega Bloodstone Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:46:00 - [285] Boost the arty's \0/. Cap has no real play when using arty's anyway so the advantage is when using autocannons. And about the no cap usage being a large advantage, most of our shield tank vessels have..uhmm...way less slots for tanking. Wait, did we forget that one??? The Vaga for example...shield tanker on a passive note...why? Not enough slots for the ladder!!! Just saying, arties need that Alpha strike back...it's an artillery cannon for sakes!!! Even with uber gunnery skills 1400 II's can be tanked due to slower rate of fire even with ROF bonus, that bonus is not an advantage, it's neccesary. It all plays out, they need a boost. And yes Amarr folks, Amarr need love to, I'm not saying they dont...I think they use a little to much cap assuming there role is to be the best tankers...because that it one of their primary roles. Take a Curse for example, a passive shield tank on a curse destroys an armor tanked curse. Of course destroying the e-war advantage...again...just saying.
Nadec Ascand British Legion The Core Collective	Posted - 2006.12.26 10:28:00 - [286] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Tuxford Lets start this by taking a look at this image. Artilleries have the advantage of not using cap but imo that is not really that great advantage but an advantage nonetheless. In all other aspects its ranks low, except in alpha damage which usefulness has been somewhat diminished. Tux, Please don't look at the lack of cap usage as a slight advantage, please look at the cap usage on Amarr and Gallente ships (especially Amarr) as a huge disadvantage. Some of us have been discussing. Was it an Amarr pilot that gave you your first pod kill and that is why you hate us so? take the equivalent to arties that is rails.. and you will see that cap usage is of minimal significance. So use a Tron with 425 T2 and close range ammo... 30 cap basis with 25% malus from ammo => 37,5cap per shot but u have like i controlled burst 5 so => 28 cap usage / shot I use 3 dmg mod and have evry single gunery skill to 5 so rof is round 3sec cap per sec per gun => 9.3 7 gun => 65.3 cap/s Heavy nos T2 = 10cap/sec so 6,5 heavy nos ... Of course it dont help...

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