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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.04 23:50:00 -
[571]
Edited by: keepiru on 04/11/2006 23:50:18 Interesting.
Well, if that's the case, its good in the sense that the guns now draw 25% less cap, but bad in the sense that the ship lost 8% of its dps, which now puts it well under the Hurricane... if the Hurricane still has the listed bonuses, that is. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Lady Loom
Red Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:52:00 -
[572]
Edited by: Lady Loom on 05/11/2006 01:01:09
Originally by: Goumindong This guy[post 5] is saying that the 5% ROF on the Harbinger is gone and replaced by 5% damage.
I thought that one of the isues was that the Harbinger didnt do enough damage[while being subtly worse], not that it did too much?
I prefer DPS over RoF in order to conserve cap
BTW, how does it lose DPS that way? I don't see the difference between hurting 5% more or hurting 5% faster, what changes that makes it lose 8% DPS, total?
[power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat] |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 01:12:00 -
[573]
Its confirmed btw.
And how? because a 25% reduction in RoF gives a 33.3*% increase in DPS.
10*1.25=12.5 10/0.75=13.3* ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 01:34:00 -
[574]
Originally by: keepiru Graphs to come about that...
Or not, since I can't seem to upload.
Suffice to say, there is only 1 case where the Harbinger outdamages the Hurricane, and that is when the Harb is mounting Top-tier guns (HP II) and the Hurricane is mounting bottom-tier (Dual 180mm II).
When that happens the Harbi has a lot of trouble mounting just the guns, mwd, injector and rep. The Hurricane mounts guns, mwd, rep, injector, 1600 plate and nos =/ ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.05 02:19:00 -
[575]
Tux, the damage bonus instead of ROF bonus was supposed to go to the Abaddon [as a compromise for being almost completly useless with lasers] not the Harbinger, you got your threads mixed up.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 02:31:00 -
[576]
Well, to be quite honest with you I prefer the damage bonus, the cap draw was an issue, now its not quite as much of an issue.
Now it really needs a nice cap boost though, so it can at least tank better than the hurricane. And possibly that utility slot moved to a low. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.05 02:41:00 -
[577]
Edited by: Goumindong on 05/11/2006 02:43:04
Originally by: keepiru Well, to be quite honest with you I prefer the damage bonus, the cap draw was an issue, now its not quite as much of an issue.
Now it really needs a nice cap boost though, so it can at least tank better than the hurricane. And possibly that utility slot moved to a low.
Its a hollow bonus without the 8th turret though. The Damage bonus instead of ROF that is.
I would be Happy with more cap/cpu/pg/and a 7/4/7 configuration with damage insatead of ROF though.
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Tonkin
Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.05 02:58:00 -
[578]
all i can say is the drake is fantastic
its a fantastic boat and it doesnt need any changes to it.
for god sake people CALDARI NEEDS A GOOD SHIP
i reading people whining about OOO it does too much damage OOO my ship cant take it out
so what, jam nos damp etc, do i have to say more, like a vaga it will come in cant hit it with torps does nasty damage, bang a nos on ur ship or cruise missiles, you will see him run like hell.
plus our missiles are being nerfed again so calm down deal with the drake, because every ship in eve can go down, depends how you think of your setup or the tactics you use.
if you get pawned right away against the drake, you have 3 things to consider.
your bad at pvp (IE CRAP) your ship setup up was laughable, or the guy was tacticly more better than you are.
ive lost fights against APPARENT weaker ships, comes down to tactics and fittings skills aswell you need to train the right ones. Sig removed, you sig was too ubber to display and ccp had no choice but to nerf it - CCP(NERFBAT)
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Areconus
Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.11.05 03:34:00 -
[579]
Edited by: Areconus on 05/11/2006 03:35:39
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: keepiru Graphs to come about that...
Or not, since I can't seem to upload.
Suffice to say, there is only 1 case where the Harbinger outdamages the Hurricane, and that is when the Harb is mounting Top-tier guns (HP II) and the Hurricane is mounting bottom-tier (Dual 180mm II).
When that happens the Harbi has a lot of trouble mounting just the guns, mwd, injector and rep. The Hurricane mounts guns, mwd, rep, injector, 1600 plate and nos =/
No, it actually can't fit all of that stuff, just tried it on quickfit...and that was with adv wep upg 5.... i used:
220m ac II med dim nos
med electrochem named 10mn mwd
med rep II ...not enuf for a 1600 left.....
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 03:55:00 -
[580]
Read again, twice, the part where I said bottom tier guns (Dual 180mm II). ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
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Areconus
Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.11.05 04:04:00 -
[581]
Edited by: Areconus on 05/11/2006 04:05:37
Originally by: keepiru Read again, twice, the part where I said bottom tier guns (Dual 180mm II).
Ah, there we go, i thought i had put in 180's, guess not..and besides that, it was on adv wep upg 4 not 5....so with:
7x dual 180mm II med dim
med electro named 10mn mwd
med rep II 1600 tungsten
adv wep upg 4....
you have 35pg left, enuf for the web scram, and other lows lol
edit: oh, and btw, stop being an ass
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 04:24:00 -
[582]
Edited by: keepiru on 05/11/2006 04:26:25 Edited by: keepiru on 05/11/2006 04:25:39 Sorry
Btw, with AWU 5 you should have grid for upgrade to Med Nos II, or (better choice) some proj rigs.
Oh and where do I find a quickfit with the Kali ships? ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Areconus
Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.11.05 06:41:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Areconus on 05/11/2006 06:43:29
Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 05/11/2006 04:26:25 Edited by: keepiru on 05/11/2006 04:25:39 Sorry
Btw, with AWU 5 you should have grid for upgrade to Med Nos II, or (better choice) some proj rigs.
Oh and where do I find a quickfit with the Kali ships?
Well, theres not a version out with the kali ships yet that i know of, but you can still produce some of the ships, with a bit of crafty work
Since the rupture has the same bonuses as the hurricane will, you need to add the rupture to your favorites by searching for it in the equipment box. Then, go to the custom tab and change all of the stats on the rupture to match the hurricane, and then simply name it the hurricane
Once you go to select ship, youll see it in a box on the bottom left hand side
Also, you can have a lil fun with this feature
I made an Estamel's modified raven once........
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
Layla Currie
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Posted - 2006.11.05 07:10:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: keepiru If you fit projectiles on a Harbinger a ferox will outdamage you
Whatever, It's not like Harbinger would do insane amounts of damage anyway.
Congrats you're really stupid. If you have decent pvp skills, which i doubt cause you're in freelancer alliance you would realize that the harbinger is the best bc out of the pack. With good skills it absolutely whups any of the other bcs, and if you fit projectiles on it you should just never reproduce because you're clearly the weakest link in the human race.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.05 07:46:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Layla Currie
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: keepiru If you fit projectiles on a Harbinger a ferox will outdamage you
Whatever, It's not like Harbinger would do insane amounts of damage anyway.
Congrats you're really stupid. If you have decent pvp skills, which i doubt cause you're in freelancer alliance you would realize that the harbinger is the best bc out of the pack. With good skills it absolutely whups any of the other bcs, and if you fit projectiles on it you should just never reproduce because you're clearly the weakest link in the human race.
Wait, how does the Harbinger, which is subtly worse in all ways than the Hurricane, "the best bc out of the pack".
Wouldnt common logic dictate, that if the Hurricane were subtly better than it in every way, then it would be "the best bc out of the pack".
So how is the Harbinger so much better than the Hurricane?
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 08:06:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Layla Currie
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: keepiru If you fit projectiles on a Harbinger a ferox will outdamage you
Whatever, It's not like Harbinger would do insane amounts of damage anyway.
Congrats you're really stupid. If you have decent pvp skills, which i doubt cause you're in freelancer alliance you would realize that the harbinger is the best bc out of the pack. With good skills it absolutely whups any of the other bcs, and if you fit projectiles on it you should just never reproduce because you're clearly the weakest link in the human race.
Well that was an interesting argument and you even went personal in your outburst of hatred towards me and my alliance. Would you perhaps want to share one of your clearly superior fits for Harbinger thus proving me wrong or should I just ignore you?
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Soratah
Amarr Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.05 09:35:00 -
[587]
Yeah. Problem is, the other bcs are scary to bigger ships, also. The Myrmidon still needs help (I'd advocate losing 1-2 turrets and boosting drone bay, like most people here).
Agreed with all above. Following the Gallente line of technologies it could either be granted a sixth weapon slot, drone bonus, and a Sensor Dampener bonus (making it less of a drone ship not really hereditary)
It's obvious the Myrmidon is meant to be a droneboat. I had doubts about whether or not they actually need one (especially with the Ishtar and Domi as peak performers.) However this is a definite step in the right for a decent affordable drone ship.
Push it's drone bay up to 200m3 or give a tertiary bonii of +15m3 drone space/level similar to the Ishkur bonus.
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 11:13:00 -
[588]
Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 04/11/2006 16:00:56
Originally by: Ithildin * Ferox, +2 turret hardpoints, +300MW
Maybe - a few tf, and remove 2 launcher hardpoints.
It's got more terra flops than the Brutix, and railguns require less terra flops than blasters. With what I proposed, the Ferox would still have 50 (iirc, base) CPU more than the Brutix to support a shield tank over a armour tank. If the Brutix is "fine" for CPU, the Ferox should be, too.
Quote:
Originally by: Ithildin * Brutix, +250MW, +25TF
Sounds about right.
Originally by: Ithildin * Myrmidon, -1 turret hardpoint, +200m¦ drone bay
I'd go so far as to say -2. And possibly shave a little grid off as well - don't want to see this thing fitting 6x Med Nos II, regardless of the low range they have.
Good point. I'm still hoping nosferatus will be reduced well enough, though. The problem with the Myrmidon is that it hasn't got enough bonuses left to support the hybrid turret damage bonus it'd need to promote hybrid turrets - nor are there any sufficiently good drone modules to merit losing the dps from projectiles or cap-heavy lasers (I'd go as far as say the current drone modules are a joke).
Quote:
Originally by: Ithildin Something to debate is how well the Prophecy function, as well. I get the feeling the Prophecy might need another hardpoint in light of recent additions.
I dunno. It still tanks really hard with that bonus and a 1600 plate.
Makes a durable and cheap gang mod platform that's still more than able to defend itself in a gang.
Holds up under fire much better than a harbinger, and because its tier-1 people are less likely to shoot at it, and will probably focus on the flashy and bangy tier-2s zooming around on MWD.
Maybe a little more cap to allay the fact it only has 3 mids, but the Harbinger is the solo ship, so possibly that's not needed.
I think that once the new-toy-noia has settled, people will stop thinking about BCs as two tiers and see them as the same size rectangle.
What you say is the truth, though, and highlights just how ****-poor a repair amount bonus is in practice compared to a resistance bonus. - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 12:28:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Ithildin It's got more terra flops than the Brutix, and railguns require less terra flops than blasters. With what I proposed, the Ferox would still have 50 (iirc, base) CPU more than the Brutix to support a shield tank over a armour tank. If the Brutix is "fine" for CPU, the Ferox should be, too.
Good point. The grid saved from not running launchers should balance out in the end.
Originally by: Ithildin Good point. I'm still hoping nosferatus will be reduced well enough, though. The problem with the Myrmidon is that it hasn't got enough bonuses left to support the hybrid turret damage bonus it'd need to promote hybrid turrets - nor are there any sufficiently good drone modules to merit losing the dps from projectiles or cap-heavy lasers (I'd go as far as say the current drone modules are a joke).
Yup. That's the problem with balancing drone ships really, T2 drones are like T2 weapons with 2-3 T2 damage mods applied.
Originally by: Ithildin I think that once the new-toy-noia has settled, people will stop thinking about BCs as two tiers and see them as the same size rectangle.
You might be right. Guess we'll have to wait and see how it pans out on TQ, as usual.
Originally by: Ithildin What you say is the truth, though, and highlights just how ****-poor a repair amount bonus is in practice compared to a resistance bonus.
They're OK-ish on TQ now, but with the 50% HP boost they really go down the drain. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Talostan Gurt
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.05 12:54:00 -
[590]
Well what can I say. The Amarr T3 bs sucks so hard i dont know why i am amarr. The cap useage is pants and most ppl are fitting auto cannons on for godsake. Amarr are energy weapons not poxy AC's.
Very very very disapointed. Soon to take out my fleet fitted geddon to see how teh T3 bs (and i mean bs as in B*******) can handle it.
Poor show CCP hope something drastic happens b4 the mighty Kali is released........................
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 12:58:00 -
[591]
wrong thread m8... ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Reto
The Last Resort
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Posted - 2006.11.05 13:51:00 -
[592]
guys browsing tru forums i saw a load of "drake is overpowered" threads. can someone sumerize some stats here and make a lil comparison with the other tier 2 bc. all i read so far is that drake can have a passive tank of about 22k shields and awsome passive recharge and 7 heavies hitting for insane amouts of dmg. since i cannot play eve here due to r/l business i keep in touch with it via reading this (even if i am actually supposed to work here ).
Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 13:59:00 -
[593]
That's it. 6-slot shield tank setups are utterly worthless in pvp with a 15km weapon, but *shrug* apparently everyone will be flying them.
/me wonders how anyone is going to kill anyone else with no speed mod, scram, web... ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.05 14:19:00 -
[594]
maybe harbringer close range "bonus" will be good against them... while the hurricane will have to go toe to toe... see it's not that useless :P
but i'm not that sure tha HAM setup will be so popular, "standard" missiles are still effective, have not low range and allow a better fitting
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Peppy LePew
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Posted - 2006.11.05 14:21:00 -
[595]
Originally by: keepiru That's it. 6-slot shield tank setups are utterly worthless in pvp with a 15km weapon, but *shrug* apparently everyone will be flying them.
/me wonders how anyone is going to kill anyone else with no speed mod, scram, web...
Don't forget the sig radius of a small planet.
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.05 14:37:00 -
[596]
Originally by: keepiru That's it. 6-slot shield tank setups are utterly worthless in pvp with a 15km weapon, but *shrug* apparently everyone will be flying them.
/me wonders how anyone is going to kill anyone else with no speed mod, scram, web...
Javelin Hams. I think 100km total distance as on test. Even if they reduce it by 50% it will still have 50km total range.
And tackling isnt as much of an issue as long as you have a few inties and/or a couple of dictors.
Nyxus
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö
Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them.
Gee, wonder why..
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 14:38:00 -
[597]
Edited by: keepiru on 05/11/2006 14:47:32
Originally by: Ath Amon maybe it will be a problem maybe if it will turn to be a very effective and very cheap anti BS ship
Nah, it deals less damage than the others by a fair chunk and has the sig radius of a megathron when in full passive-tank mode.
It could be fairly effective with Rage HAMs, but Rages have 12km range, so I don't see how a 6-slot-tank drake is going to get in range with them and no speed mod.
Originally by: Nyxus Javelin Hams. I think 100km total distance as on test. Even if they reduce it by 50% it will still have 50km total range.
And tackling isnt as much of an issue as long as you have a few inties and/or a couple of dictors.
Javelin HAMs are stupidly overpowered against cruisers, no doubt there.
1) They do too much damage, should be nerfed to 85 base to bring them inline with Jav torps. 2) They have far too much range. They need to be nerfed so they only have 25% more range than normal HAMs, again just like Jav Torps to Torps.
They're near useless against frigs though, so once those 2 are fixed, they're all good. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
2SecondsTilMidnight
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Posted - 2006.11.05 17:13:00 -
[598]
Originally by: keepiru That's it. 6-slot shield tank setups are utterly worthless in pvp with a 15km weapon, but *shrug* apparently everyone will be flying them.
/me wonders how anyone is going to kill anyone else with no speed mod, scram, web...
You make it sound like everyone will be using HAMs
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 17:33:00 -
[599]
That's because HM Drakes don't really concern me.
1-on1, if they want to hold me I can kill them, if they tank to the point where I can't, they can't hold me and I run.
Good fire support in gangs, to be sure, but no more no less than a Hurricane w. 720s or a Harbinger w. Heavy Beams, if setup right. Tactically different because of divergences in weapon/tank use/position - less damage closer up more further away, can tank more with damage mods but cant help scramble and has poor lock times if it does, not very mobile so slows gangs down a little - but not particularly better or worse. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Brazero
Amarr Noble House
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Posted - 2006.11.05 18:40:00 -
[600]
Originally by: keepiru That's because HM Drakes don't really concern me.
1-on1, if they want to hold me I can kill them, if they tank to the point where I can't, they can't hold me and I run.
Good fire support in gangs, to be sure, but no more no less than a Hurricane w. 720s or a Harbinger w. Heavy Beams, if setup right. Tactically different because of divergences in weapon/tank use/position - less damage closer up more further away, can tank more with damage mods but cant help scramble and has poor lock times if it does, not very mobile so slows gangs down a little - but not particularly better or worse.
Well, you can't have heavy beams on a Harbinger. And that's the only negative thing I have found with the ship. A little more grid and all is fine.
Quote: <tuxford> Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums.
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