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Exploration and Scan Probing in Kali

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.16 00:41:00 - [151] Originally by: Arilanus Doshenko Scan probes launchers may need a COVOPS ship to get the time down, but Recon Probe Launchers don't. Base cycle time of 120 seconds. Yes, and you can't fit sift (or any other exploration) probes in a recon launcher, so it's entirely useless for the problem at hand.
Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.16 05:18:00 - [152] Has CCP said anything about the new scanning system and the old "2D" plane the old scanner worked on? In other words, will the new probes and scanners work on more than just a 2AU deep donut around the ship doing the probing?
Commander Spectre	Posted - 2006.11.16 07:36:00 - [153] Ok I tried the new probes and scanner and there are some problems with it... 1. NPC ships don't show up at all when you scan for them. This was handy because I could scan a system for faction NPCs and look for them if there were any. I hope they can fix this. 2. The analysis takes 3 times as long I used to scan with the 3au snoop probes in 120 seconds (2 min.), now they take 360 seconds (6 min.) which is accually longer than the probe will last making them usless. There is a new skill however that is supposed to give you 10% faster scanning, but I had allready trained astrometrics which was supposed to do that. Now I gotta train yet another skill Astrometrics now adds one scan group per level. So you have to train it up to level 5 to show everything I guess. Pointless IMO. Just more stuff to waste my valubale training time. Everything should be shown to begin with. 3. The nice little system map is gone which I found very useful for pinpointing locations. Because even tho the probes can find ships it is nice to know where exactly in the system you are in relation to other objects. I suppose alot of people never used it, but I found this quite handy. Maybe they can put another tab on the scanner for the map. I know they removed it so the window could be made smaller which is pretty nice because now you can have the sanner open all the time and not block your view much. 4. This has to do with the test server in general... WAY TO TOO MUCH LAG!. I don't mean small annoying lag bursts...but massive long lag that can last several minutes leaving you sitting in one spot and nothing will work for up to 10 min. And it happens about every 15 min. So you are almost in a constant lag burst. This makes it very hard to test anything. I don't know if this is just cuz they are using some cheap server to test with...but if it's like this on tranquility no one will want to play. And the reload all is not working half the time...hope they can fix that too.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:19:00 - [154] Originally by: Steppa Has CCP said anything about the new scanning system and the old "2D" plane the old scanner worked on? In other words, will the new probes and scanners work on more than just a 2AU deep donut around the ship doing the probing? Yes, they do. Certainly all exploration probes are entirely 3D, and I imagine the ship scanning ones are too. Originally by: Commander Spectre 2. The analysis takes 3 times as long I used to scan with the 3au snoop probes in 120 seconds (2 min.), now they take 360 seconds (6 min.) which is accually longer than the probe will last making them usless. There is a new skill however that is supposed to give you 10% faster scanning, but I had allready trained astrometrics which was supposed to do that. Now I gotta train yet another skill Astrometrics now adds one scan group per level. So you have to train it up to level 5 to show everything I guess. Pointless IMO. Just more stuff to waste my valubale training time. Everything should be shown to begin with. If you're using snoops (ship hunters), use a Recon Probe Launcher. It starts at 120s and can be brought down to 30s with maxed skills.
Harry Bucannon The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:19:00 - [155] From what I can tell of the exploration probes on SiSi; The greater your skill, the better you can use the sift probes (the one that will give you the final location). Isnt this the wrong way round?. Surley a beginer should be able to use sift, and an expert should be able to use the likes of the quest probe?.
Harry Bucannon The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:15:00 - [156] Edited by: Harry Bucannon on 16/11/2006 16:31:31 Edited by: Harry Bucannon on 16/11/2006 16:25:39 Just to say now, looks like the faction probes just got a little buff Sift now has a flight time of 500 secs instead of 300 secs However there Scan Range has drop to 0.5! All the faction probes have changed in someway. Type,Flight Time,Scan Range, Faction signal strength Quest, 4000, 4, 250 Pursuit, 2000, 2, 500 Comb, 1000, 1, 1000 Sift, 500, 0.5, 2000 Also, that bug with the new fancy map showing the probe bubble is fix now
Langhorn Gallente BMF Corp	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:31:00 - [157] Edited by: Langhorn on 16/11/2006 16:37:29 All Sensor Strenghts have doubled as well as the above info with 500s fligt time on the sifts, you now only need Signal Acqusition 2 to be able to use them (on what ever ship you like). Although you would only have 5 seconds spare after launching the probe (and waiting 15s) to start a scan.
Harry Bucannon The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:32:00 - [158] Edited by: Harry Bucannon on 16/11/2006 16:37:39 Volume is now 1.25 for these faction probes too
Langhorn Gallente BMF Corp	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:38:00 - [159] Edited by: Langhorn on 16/11/2006 16:38:43 nm
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:11:00 - [160] Well that solves the problem of them being overpowered for ship locating. With 4au max range it won't be an issue anymore. But I must say I was looking forward to the fact that you had to decide if you where to fit a recon launcher for quick ship probing or a scan launcher for accurate.
Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:55:00 - [161] Probe launchers that actually let you fire a probe at a celestial object, such as planets/moons/belts, would be awesome. The probes themselves would have to be very large, though, and I think require battlecruiser and up to use the launcher, which would also be larger. This would negate a player having to warp all over a system, which takes time. Instead, you could fire a spray of probes at different targets and wait for the returns. Yet another role for the command ships? Or possibly a new ship-class altogether? Something that mirrors the AWACS plane of today?
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:03:00 - [162] I really like the increase of the flight time, now you can have two scan runs with a covert ops and one with every other ship. But isnt a range of 4AU for quest probes a weee bit extreme? Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Harry Bucannon The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:27:00 - [163] Yeah, i think it extreme too; Quest range of 32au <-> 16au would be much better.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:32:00 - [164] It needs to be less than 14.5au, if it's more you can launch one outside scanner range of the target and get a 0m accuracy result with little effort. That is a bit overpowered imho. It might be possible to do so now using multiple 20au probes but at least you have to work for it.
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:03:00 - [165] good point Hoshi... They should just double the range again. Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.17 00:20:00 - [166] Have we tried dropping one of the larger probes right next to a cloaked ship yet? Hoshi has said cloaked ships can't be probed yet. What kind of tests were done?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 07:04:00 - [167] Originally by: Aertuun Have we tried dropping one of the larger probes right next to a cloaked ship yet? Hoshi has said cloaked ships can't be probed yet. What kind of tests were done? I tried among other thing using a sift probe of the correct type (pre last boost so a strength of 1000, compared to 20 for the strongest ship probe) about 150.000 km away, gave the expected 232 signal strength when the ship was uncloaked and no result after 5 searches when it was cloaked. I can run more extensive test later if you want but it will have to wait a bit as I am going away over the weekend. This is the last msg for while, will be back to pestering you on sunday evening, have fun probing guys :)
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:17:00 - [168] Just a short notice: exploration is at the moment nearly impossible as the directional scanner doesn¦t show deadspace signatures. I managed to probe a earlier found complex, so they are still around.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:25:00 - [169] Edited by: Aertuun on 17/11/2006 11:34:06 Originally by: Hoshi ...gave the expected 232 signal strength when the ship was uncloaked and no result after 5 searches when it was cloaked... That definitely falls under bugged then That is, unless cloaking reduces signal strength by a factor of more than 232, which would make them impossible to probe anyway. Given that, do we have any idea whether probing for cloaked ships is still planned?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:57:00 - [170] Gah, I go afk for 24 hours and the entire dynamic of fleet combat in Kali changes again... more testing needed I guess :P Originally by: Steppa Probe launchers that actually let you fire a probe at a celestial object, such as planets/moons/belts, would be awesome. Moon probes already function like this
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:36:00 - [171] I have now new data about probing of exploration sites. For my tests I used sift probes, which have a sensor strength of 2000 in the correct racial sensor type and 400 in the other three types. So a magnetometric sift probe has a sensor strenght of 2000 magnetometric and 400 ladar, radar and gravitometric. In the first test I scanned a small mining site in Fountain, which contains several Bistot-roids and spawns small rogue drones. In system view the site is called "Medium Bistot". I was sitting about 300km away from the deadspace signature, so we can ignore the range. The data: Magnetometric Sift Probe: 0.4 signal strength Ladar Sift Probe: 0.4 signal strength Radar Sift Probe: 0.4 signal strength Gravitometric Sift Probe: 2.0 signal strength So this exploration seems to have only a gravimetric sensor strength, which is normally typical for caldari ships. So the scan vulnerability (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength) of this deadspace signature is 0.1 (for gravimetric). As second object I scanned an "Cosmic Agent Site Signature" in Fountain space, which leads to the main agent site of the COSMOS-constellation in Fountain. Results: Magnetometric Sift Probe: 100 signal strength Ladar Sift Probe: 100 signal strength Radar Sift Probe: 100 signal strength Gravitometric Sift Probe: 100 signal strength I would interpret this data, that this special site has all 4 types of sensor strength. The scan vulnerability with this assumption would be 5. Using a snoop probe we should get a signal strength of 1.0 (will check this as soon as I can login again). I will continue these tests as soon as I can use the directional scanner again for finding new signatures.
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:03:00 - [172] I think the COSMOS stuff has nothing to do with new exploration features and therefore have stats that don't seem to "fit". I also think that the new hidden exploration sites should not be visible on the directional scanner. Is that a bug or did I miss something? Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2006.11.18 01:01:00 - [173] Originally by: Amira Silvermist I think the COSMOS stuff has nothing to do with new exploration features and therefore have stats that don't seem to "fit". I also think that the new hidden exploration sites should not be visible on the directional scanner. Is that a bug or did I miss something? The new 0.0 COSMOS stuff is nearly only exploration stuff. The agent site itselfis special and I think it should be possible to scan it with "normal" scan probes (like the Snoop). Directional scanner + deadspace signatures: At the moment it¦s nearly impossible to find exploration sites if you don¦t see the signatures on directional scanner. The quest probes have a scan radius of 4 AU and the probability of finding a signature like the medium bistot site at 3 AU distance would be 14% with the correct probe type (gravimetric) and 3% with a wrong probe. So with a Gravimetric Quest Probe only one of 7 scans would give a result, with any other quest probe one of 33 scans. At the moment i can¦t tell exactly how far most deadspace signatures are away from planets, but the ones which I scanned for were between 2 and 4 AU. The cosmic agent site was about 4.5 AU from the next stellar object (either scannable with snoop probes from the planet or with faction probes, with using midwarp-BM¦s (was in this case quiet easy). But don¦t forget that midwarp-BM¦s are only a alternative, if you really know, where you want to probe for something.
Feynt Rovigo Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.18 02:56:00 - [174] Originally by: Aertuun TomB: Now there's something I forgot to mention; 1. Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person With the old system I could refine my search and get closer and closer to my target by launching tighter probes within the 'spheres' of the old ones. Now I cannot? If I have to wait out the life of each probe to launch a new one with a tighter focus, that will dramatically increase my overall scan time and it'll leave me just sitting around twiddling my thumbs often, waiting for probes to expire, no? I have been logging in to Singularity to test the scanning changes, but I keep getting disconnected before I get my scan results back... I'm going to try again tomorrow, but thought I should ask here as well.
Harry Bucannon The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.11.18 08:37:00 - [175] Originally by: Feynt Rovigo Originally by: Aertuun TomB: Now there's something I forgot to mention; 1. Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person With the old system I could refine my search and get closer and closer to my target by launching tighter probes within the 'spheres' of the old ones. Now I cannot? If I have to wait out the life of each probe to launch a new one with a tighter focus, that will dramatically increase my overall scan time and it'll leave me just sitting around twiddling my thumbs often, waiting for probes to expire, no? I have been logging in to Singularity to test the scanning changes, but I keep getting disconnected before I get my scan results back... I'm going to try again tomorrow, but thought I should ask here as well. You can destroy probes once you have finished with them, right click on them in the window and destroy. Then your free to lay another one in its area.
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.11.18 10:33:00 - [176] Originally by: Helison The new 0.0 COSMOS stuff is nearly only exploration stuff. The agent site itselfis special and I think it should be possible to scan it with "normal" scan probes (like the Snoop). Hmm, what race did get the new COSMOS regions? Originally by: Helison Directional scanner + deadspace signatures: At the moment it¦s nearly impossible to find exploration sites if you don¦t see the signatures on directional scanner. The quest probes have a scan radius of 4 AU and the probability of finding a signature like the medium bistot site at 3 AU distance would be 14% with the correct probe type (gravimetric) and 3% with a wrong probe. So with a Gravimetric Quest Probe only one of 7 scans would give a result, with any other quest probe one of 33 scans. Thats also my beef with the current probes... What use is the new system if everybody can find the new signatures (but cant warp to them)? I was under the impression that one has to start with the largest probe to check if something interesting is in the system and narrow it down from there. Now that we have quest probes with 4AU I wonder... Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%
Harry Bucannon The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.11.18 17:21:00 - [177] Edited by: Harry Bucannon on 18/11/2006 17:23:20 Just some info here, managed to scan down this with Grav racial probes ... Coral thingy + drones Is this mission related or some of the new content thats been added?
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2006.11.18 21:28:00 - [178] Originally by: Harry Bucannon Edited by: Harry Bucannon on 18/11/2006 17:23:20 Just some info here, managed to scan down this with Grav racial probes ... Coral thingy + drones Is this mission related or some of the new content thats been added? Hehe, this screenshot looks VERY familiar to me. The exploration site "medium Bistot" looks like this one. So check if there are any roids between the corals!
Donna Darko	Posted - 2006.11.19 14:00:00 - [179] Edited by: Donna Darko on 19/11/2006 14:03:29 Edited by: Donna Darko on 19/11/2006 14:02:21 OK, I tested the moon probes, for kicks, they seem to be working, but the system I scanned had no interesting minerals (it was high security, I didn't have time to test it in low security. I might some other day.) Regarding the Observator probe, I scanned 30 times for ships in space and found the Rokh I knew of 13 times, a Stilleto 3 times and various Ibis, Velators and Caldari shuttles 1 time (found 1 ship of each type out of the 15 or so KNOWN ones existing in space). It seems to me that CCP does not want deep safe spots found even now, seeing that (in my experience at least) people fly and abandon smaller ships more often. I used the Recon Probe Launcher, since it's faster, but I don't think the launcher influences the results (my 1-2 tests with the Scan Probe Launcher gave similarly few results). A suggestion: to speed up scanning, get yourselves a "Signal Focusing Kit" and "Gravity Capacitor Upgrade" rig (you can build them, both blueprints and materials are on the market and we have the skills required). Signal Focusing Kit's description is somewhat vague, the description implies the targeting is faster, but the attributes indicate a 15% scan speed bonus. I jumped in a non-rigged ship and noticed the scan speed bonus applies, nothing happens to the scan resolution. Gravity Capacitor Upgrade gives 10% less to scan time. EDIT my next test will involve scanning 100 times for all types of ships I can fly and eject in space (hope to find someone else in Lonetrek who's willing to help me). Stories.
Zallazaer Caldari Shinra Cosa Nostra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.19 14:00:00 - [180] Originally by: Feynt Rovigo With the old system I could refine my search and get closer and closer to my target by launching tighter probes within the 'spheres' of the old ones. Now I cannot? If I have to wait out the life of each probe to launch a new one with a tighter focus, that will dramatically increase my overall scan time and it'll leave me just sitting around twiddling my thumbs often, waiting for probes to expire, no? Right click on the deployed probe in the scanner overview. Destroy probe. Wait 10s for the lag. Then fire an new probe.

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