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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
849
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:14:24 -
[331] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time?
You dont leave highsec and have never run anoms in dek. Yet you are calling the people who have figured out how to squeeze the most isk out of every activity a liar?
I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations...
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Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
15
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:14:53 -
[332] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dracvlad wrote:If anyone takes the time to think it through there are multiple ways to interfere with Incursions
List some, liar, or admit that you're blowing smoke.
Anyone who has done them can come up with creative ways of disrupting them sadly you just want to be fleet warped and hit f1 for a killmail so I am not sure your brain could understand the mechanics involved. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12815
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:15:54 -
[333] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dracvlad wrote:If anyone takes the time to think it through there are multiple ways to interfere with Incursions
List some, liar, or admit that you're blowing smoke. Anyone who has done them can come up with creative ways of disrupting them sadly you just want to be fleet warped and hit f1 for a killmail so I am not sure your brain could understand the mechanics involved.
List some.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
849
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:16:44 -
[334] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Because those figures are wrong and another poster already proved just how few people can efficiently run incursions.
Nobody has posted any facts here to back up your argument. Average income from anoms is 60 mil/hr, incursion income of 120 mil/hr is not unrealistic. Dracvlad wrote: But why are you getting so uptight, soon you will have the new structures that will enable you to have mission agants in null sec, that's great news for you guys isn't it?
We have no details yet on this system. Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time? not really an ishtar in null will get around 20mil a tick give or take, 1 tick = 20mins, x 3 = 60mil an hour, with a carrier you can get to around 30+mil an hour = thats 90mil an hour for risking 2.5bil worth of slow a$$ carrier, which get lost quite often in null
I never lost a carrier..., its all a question of risk management!
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
435
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:18:27 -
[335] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time?
You dont leave highsec and have never run anoms in dek. Yet you are calling the people who have figured out how to squeeze the most isk out of every activity a liar? I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations...
so there you have it null escalations vs highsec safety incursions = same isk/hour, clearly not balanced huh, what were you using to make 110mil an hour?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Solecist Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
21928
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:20:30 -
[336] - Quote
Weaklings. (:
List some, if you are so sure. We'll pick them apart, one by one, because you people just talk out of your inexperienced asses anyway. :)
Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine.
The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us.
The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back.
Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15721
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:20:45 -
[337] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations...
No you weren't.
Provide the ship and fit please.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Solecist Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
21928
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:22:47 -
[338] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations...
No you weren't. Provide the ship and fit please. Btw technically he's right about saying he never lost a carrier. When you have none, you can't lose one.
Anyhow I suggest that you stop eating the hatebait.
Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine.
The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us.
The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back.
Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
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Melenos
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:23:07 -
[339] - Quote
I make a lot more with explo. Nef explo plz.
Regarding incursions: The isk/hour isn't that great., Also you loose one shiny ship to the ocasional sucide ganks and you're prett much lost a months income. So, not that troublesome.
Also, i feel like most of the time the people that complaining are those oh-so-hardcore 1-jump-in-lowsec self-declared pirates who simply want more easy gank targets. But guys, the isk you destroy need to be generated somehow, so let the carebears be carebears. |
Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
156
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:23:26 -
[340] - Quote
To be honest, make Incursion more an evolving story line, rather than semi-random spawn events that have no reall storyline within eve.
Like the ever evolving storyline of the human players and empirical bloc's around 0.0, empire should actually have dynamic, unpredicatble conflicts that evolve over time. Not these random things.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Solecist Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
21929
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:26:11 -
[341] - Quote
Melenos wrote: I make a lot more with explo. Nef explo plz.
Regarding incursions: The isk/hour isn't that great., Also you loose one shiny ship to the ocasional sucide ganks and you're prett much lost a months income. So, not that troublesome.
Also, i feel like most of the time the people that complaining are those oh-so-hardcore 1-jump-in-lowsec self-declared pirates who simply want more easy gank targets. But guys, the isk you destroy need to be generated somehow, so let the carebears be carebears.
NPC alt bait, beware.
Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine.
The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us.
The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back.
Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
849
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:26:33 -
[342] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time?
You dont leave highsec and have never run anoms in dek. Yet you are calling the people who have figured out how to squeeze the most isk out of every activity a liar? I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations... so there you have it null escalations vs highsec safety incursions = same isk/hour, clearly not balanced huh, what were you using to make 110mil an hour?
I said that was not including the escalations, which I was selling on to people and I made a lot of ISK from that, I was making 110m an hour with a Chimera using fighters and a Shield fit Pulse Oracle just from the anom bounties in Cobalt Edge. At this point you will say doh you are using more than one character and say something about that, but I am comparing what I did as compared to an AFK Ishtar, which is efficient in baltec1's terms in that it allows the Goon do do other things while earning ISK.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12817
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:29:22 -
[343] - Quote
Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10816
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:30:04 -
[344] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:
An imbalance compared to what exactly? As far as I know incursions also exist in Lowsec, and Nullsec. So where exactly is this imbalance?
How many times must it be explained before "you people" admit that you don't care lol?
And ask yourself why low and null incursions go undone while high sec spawned "incursion communites" in which 5 bil+ fit pirate battleships are normal. Hint, it starts with C and ends with ONCORD.
This means low and null incursions are a non-issue. High sec incursions have to be compared to content people actually use (FW missions, lvl 5 missions. Lvl 4 missions in high, low and npc null, null anomalies , wormhoe anomalies and sigs etc).
Ganking is a form of disruption, you're the one talking about disruption.
Quote: (also please don't include me with "you guys" thanks. I have never done a single incursion, and probably never will.)
Well, I've spent months at a time doing incursions and I'm primarily a PVE player (that means I know this stuff).
Why, exactly, would you deem to comment on something you have zero knowledge about again? That's about as smart as me (a guy, don't let the girl avatar fool you) describing for everyone here the experience of child birth to actual women when the entire extent of my knowledge is "I was in the hospital on a different floor when my wife gave birth" lol.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1113
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:30:15 -
[345] - Quote
Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?
Really?
Reaaaaaaaally?
Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft |
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
435
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:31:21 -
[346] - Quote
sorry meant anoms, escalations bring a substantial increase in risk, baltecs numbers are right for a single char, obviously using 2 chars will bring you more isk, add 2 chars to your incursions and boom you've doubled your income, it works both ways
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
849
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:31:49 -
[347] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac.
First of all you incorrectly used the word easy, it takes effort, so people call for the nerfing of incursions as the easy option.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12817
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:32:41 -
[348] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac. First of all you incorrectly used the word easy, it takes effort, so people call for the nerfing of incursions as the easy option.
Don't lie about what you said. You said that if "anyone takes the time" that they are apparent.
List some, then. Or admit that you lied.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
849
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:34:12 -
[349] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:sorry meant anoms, escalations bring a substantial increase in risk, baltecs numbers are right for a single char, obviously using 2 chars will bring you more isk, add 2 chars to your incursions and boom you've doubled your income, it works both ways
Thats where the fun disingenuous and lying comes to the fore, you see Mr Goon has one character spreading Goon joy around Eve while his ratting Ishtar is earning a lower level of ISK then he would get as a player paying full attention, the same attention level that an incursion runner is running.
Thats what he means by super efficient, its not what I mean by super efficient, but if you want to work your numbers based on 60m thats your issue?
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
849
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:35:34 -
[350] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac. First of all you incorrectly used the word easy, it takes effort, so people call for the nerfing of incursions as the easy option. Don't lie about what you said. You said that if "anyone takes the time" that they are apparent. List some, then. Or admit that you lied.
You need to put time and effort into it, its not like rolling up to a retreiver with a Venture, scan it for tank then warp the catalysts in, but then again it shouldn't be like that should it?
Ella's Snack bar
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12817
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:35:39 -
[351] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: Thats where the fun disingenuous and lying comes to the fore
Says the person trying to justify the obscenity that is highsec incursions by lying about how they're vulnerable to your imaginary ways of killing them?
That's so rich, mynnna has to look up to see it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15722
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 12:35:41 -
[352] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?
Really?
Reaaaaaaaally?
Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft
Its a more realistic comparison. If we go for top end income for both then we have 180-200 mil/hr from highsec incursions vs 90 mil/hr from anoms. You can almost get the same income from highsec level 3 missions as anoms...
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12817
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:37:14 -
[353] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: You need to put time and effort into it, its not like rolling up to a retreiver with a Venture, scan it for tank then warp the catalysts in, but then again it shouldn't be like that should it?
You're spinning, and it's obvious to everyone here.
List some. I don't care how much "time" or "effort" you claim it has, list some.
[edit: Oh, and it's really funny to see someone who defends dec dodging with his every breath talk about time or effort, by the way.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1113
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:41:34 -
[354] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:afkalt wrote:Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?
Really?
Reaaaaaaaally?
Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft Its a more realistic comparison. If we go for top end income for both then we have 180-200 mil/hr from highsec incursions vs 90 mil/hr from anoms. You can almost get the same income from highsec level 3 missions as anoms...
Perhaps but there are significantly more variables in the equation than merely "isk/hour".
It is an interesting debate, I'm not sure what side I sit on tbh since I'd not fly what the incursion runners do in high sec. Ironically, I would in a WH... |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12817
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:44:12 -
[355] - Quote
Can anyone else picture Dracvlad behind his keyboard, scrambling through Battleclinic, trying to find something plausible to claim as a way to kill incursion players?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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2Sonas1Cup
96
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:44:24 -
[356] - Quote
Guys I'd like to remind those of you arguing about interfering with incursions fleet that incursions are 5 years old, there is nothing new to discover about them or "new ways to interfere with them if you think about it", like someone said in this thread, many have tried and failed, even goons, and yes goons are the best.
But that's NOT the point of why incursions are bad, they are bad because they provide all the isks you can possibly need in this game easily and in the safety of highsec, while there's many other highsec activities and they don't even come close to making the same amount of isks.
Also all other people in null and wormholes living the risk and logistics and a whole lot of crap and still highsec c incursions provide a MUCH better and consistent income ANYTIME you want. Only people in c5 and c6 can make more isks with capitals but it is NOT consistent . And hell in don't even wanna mention how much work and effort you need to do it compared to highsec incursions that even a stupid 100 mil isk megathron 6 jumps from on jita is accepted in some group fleets, and can make more than people in capitals.
Highsec Incursions ARE broken.
Reduce payout, make them them a temporary thing (4 weeks on, 12 off), or just end them completely.
My Payouts suggestion for highsec:
VGs: 8 mil per site Assaults: 15 mil per site Hqs: 25 mil per site
LPs stay the same.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15722
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:51:11 -
[357] - Quote
u3pog wrote:Station traders make billion of ISK with 0% risk
This is a myth. Station trading is a pvp activity and as has been shown many times people will take massive losses in this playing that game.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15722
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:55:17 -
[358] - Quote
Infrequent wrote:This entire thread is a joke, yes let's nerf something that's constantly generating ample content for a large part of the eve player base while actually requiring more organization and coordination than a decent amount of the other content avenues in Eve. Have you actually looked into the organization required to make incursions run smoothly?
Yes and it is far less than is required for a bog standard fleet like harpy fleet or domi fleet.
Infrequent wrote: Have you compared them to the early days when they first came around? Do you know of the risks, the requirements, the time investment required to get a good return? Do you know how easy it is to be alpha'd of the field in the sites that are actually worth the effort?
I did incursions the other week in a sheild fitted nano mega and our fleet had a bog standard zealot, the risk of being alpha'ed doesn't exist.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10817
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:55:25 -
[359] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?
Really?
Reaaaaaaaally?
Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft
We're comparing the income of people using ships in unprotected (except by human effort) space to the higher income of people using ships in npc protected space (with the additional protection of a dedicated squad of tech2 logistics ships.
We're comparing the higher personal/individual income in NPC protected space that is 'free' for everyone to the lower or barley equal incomes in space you have to WORK for (null), space that is more dangerous (low) and space that is the MOST dangerous (WHs)
If you actually read the thread, you will see my own direct comparison.. Machariel Hull flown by me, 2 bil isk fit, flying with The Valhalla Project and making almost twice the isk per hour as the same ship in null sec with exclusive (no one else in system) access to the best anomalies (forsaken hubs, havens and sanctums). I'll let wormhole and low sec guys make their own comparisons.
The ONLY think more broken than high sec incursions are Faction Warfare Missions (which I also do, hell, the FW corp I'm in actually has the word FARMING in it's name lol) where being able to pilot a Stealth Bomber (purifier in my case, it's best against the amarr rats) means you can make more isk in an hour than you can in incursions and anomalies combined...
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
849
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:58:27 -
[360] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Can anyone else picture Dracvlad behind his keyboard, scrambling through Battleclinic, trying to find something plausible to claim as a way to kill incursion players?
At this moment I am looking at one of the fits for the Confessor which still works and I can get a T2 Expanded Probe launcher on it now with the same damage as I had before, yikes, but the 10mn Afterburner fit has been nuked which is a good thing...
Battleclinic, never use it...
Its very evident to me what you can do to attack Incursion runners, but it is not easy, it require effort and patience, its a major step up from ganking a retriever. A lot of the methods have been detailed in this thread, the main issue is that the target is limited in numbers and within tightly controlled groups, war dec's don't really work, unless your target has a brain fart, or the FC has one too, so its ganks, which need to be very well done or getting people into the incursion with logi and letting them die. Because the communities are tight knit it takes effort to infiltrate and its a busted flush after one use.
It is difficult but doable if you have the skill, will and the resources to do it, baltec1 talked about it and they found it too risky in terms of failure and that it was difficult to set up, so they decided to do other things.
And here is the issue, because it takes too much effort for you people you call for a nerf instead.
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