He does this so much, we should call it the Nevyn Auscent Deflection Syndrome (I just added the S because it makes the acronym "NADS").

The way it works is that you pretend that the numbers of people doing something that is unbalanced is important, and that if not enough people do it, it's not unbalanced. It's basically denying fact by conflating the specific issue with some other 'macro' level concern, in this case, it's the overall economy (of which incursion income is too small to hurt).

Despite having every opportunity to do so, Nevyn Auscent hasn't spent a single second actually testing the situation in game, his entire reason for posting is to defend high sec.

And here we see the Jenn anti highsec Tirade, or JAHT for short, who doesn't bother to actually look at any of these numbers, but tries to compare apples to oranges and then complains it's unfair that a solo risk adverse null pilot who docks whenever a neutral enters system and only uses an ishtar doesn't make as much as a pilot using a multi billion isk ship who is reliant on an entire fleet of similar ships for their income. While ignoring the fact that if the same fleet ran in Null they would be making 42% more than highsec while running.

If you want higher income, you take the risk that comes with it. The solo ishtar docking on neuts is virtually no risk because of your chosen risk management style and you have 100% control on those risks.
The Highsec incursion pilot is at risk from site alpha, gankers, loosing contests and fleet mates failing.
The Null Sec incursion fleet is at risk from all of the above, plus hostiles.

Absolutely, the Null incursion fleet faces significant risks, and if you bothered to read earlier Jenn, I suggested pushing for CCP to continue their experiment with VG's onto all the sites allowing Null to field fleets that are 50% larger than High, to account for the fact that mitigating risks requires less optimal fits such as having points, additional logi, and higher tank to deal with hostiles. But trying to compare an incursion fleet to a solo anom farmer really doesn't hold water.

It's not just null. You have to move up past Class 5 wormholes (the most dangerous space eve has) to start surpassing the isk per hour you can make in high sec incursions protected by CONCORD and dedicated logistics ships. To make the same or more in low or null sec for the average pilot, you need a CARRIER.

Actually I don't test it because I don't live in Null currently, therefore any day trip results to an area of space I'm not currently familiar with the residents & camps in would certainly look bad. But I'm not disputing your figures either. What I am disputing is your use of your figures to claim there is an issue.

You are using apples & oranges.
One activity you are looking at is a solo activity that can be farmed 24/7 in the same system.
The other is a fleet activity where you have to travel to chase them, assuming that there is even one up at the moment.
You even try to claim that the fact null incursions travel is a reason to not look at them in null, yet high incursions travelling is irrelevant. Sure it's less an issue, but still incursions don't occur in the same high sec constellation constantly also.

So yes, I do believe high sec incursions are fine as they stand generally speaking. Because they are a co-operative fleet venture, and fleet ventures should reward good income, and we could use more fleet ventures that reward income across all of EVE, rather than most PVE being solo.

You even try to claim that the fact null incursions travel is a reason to not look at them in null, yet high incursions travelling is irrelevant. Sure it's less an issue, but still incursions don't occur in the same high sec constellation constantly also.

My recommendation to anyone that believes incursions are too profitable is that they start a gank campaign.

My recommendation to anyone that believes incursions are too profitable is that they start a gank campaign.

This is seriously harder than you think it is. Sure, you will generate a few ALODs from dingleberries who go AFK on gates or autopilot through Uedama/Niarja in their incursion boat, but actually ganking people in the sites isn't all that easy.

Now...if the rats didn't shoot people with high Sansha's Nation standings...Oh yes.

I'm not against Hi Sec. I'm for the rest of the game.

Simply put, much of the potential content the rest of the game could host is stifled so long as Hi Sec maintains the monopoly on accessible income. Population density is a zero sum game. If you want space to be filled with things waiting to be happen, you have to make that space worth something. At least for me, it's not a rabid, toxic, hate of highsec that wants to see HS incursions go, but rather a desire to see the rest of the game take shape as a dynamic and vibrant stage.

Who's more likely to bring new blood into the fray? Someone who logs in his big'ol vindicator once a month and shoots Tama Cerebellum for a few hours, gets his plex, and logs for the month? Or someone who took a chance, lost ships, betrayed someone, got betrayed by someone, made allies, made enemies...etc? I mean they are not mutually exclusive perhaps, but you stand a far greater chance of having interesting things happen when the 'cheese' in the sand box is limited, in a dangerous place, or even better, both.

You have access to all of highsec so all of its incursions. What do you think is going to happen if N3 or PL try to run an incursion in Dek?

If you really believe that and aren't trolling I'm sorry to say but you're bad at the isk game.

Carriers are cheap and class 5s shouldn't be so underestimated in earnings. I do giggle at you calling class 5 wormholes to be the most dangerous space in eve...

Actually I don't test it because I don't live in Null currently, therefore any day trip results to an area of space I'm not currently familiar with the residents & camps in would certainly look bad. But I'm not disputing your figures either. What I am disputing is your use of your figures to claim there is an issue.

You are using apples & oranges.
One activity you are looking at is a solo activity that can be farmed 24/7 in the same system.
The other is a fleet activity where you have to travel to chase them, assuming that there is even one up at the moment.
You even try to claim that the fact null incursions travel is a reason to not look at them in null, yet high incursions travelling is irrelevant. Sure it's less an issue, but still incursions don't occur in the same high sec constellation constantly also.

So yes, I do believe high sec incursions are fine as they stand generally speaking. Because they are a co-operative fleet venture, and fleet ventures should reward good income, and we could use more fleet ventures that reward income across all of EVE, rather than most PVE being solo.

All I have read is "I dont like people doing this part of the game so CCP make it stop."

I like incursion runners. someone has to buy my shinny S**T

Wormhole space is the most dangerous in EVE, it is no one elses fault if you don't understand that.

Carriers. You need CARRIERs, in the single most dangerous par tof EVE space, to match or exceed what can be made in HIGH SEC protected by concord while using su caps.

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Maybe something is being missed here but why the fixation on carriers? Why do they have some sort of increased income expectation to you? By that logic should supercarriers be the ultimate ratting machines? Also I think it was stated somewhere that even C3's could match the isk/hour of incursions without caps, granted with significantly more limited farming potential.

Drop Concord protection in incursion systems.
Leave the income as is.
Need no other changes to the incursion mechanics.
Make your 200+ isk/hr, now you deserve it.

Maybe something is being missed here but why the fixation on carriers? Why do they have some sort of increased income expectation to you?

By that logic should supercarriers be the ultimate ratting machines?

The problem is that you are not getting rewarded for taking on more risk and effort. If CCP wants smaller corps and alliances out in nullsec then they are going to have to make it worth moving out there.

They used to be but CCP nerfed them several years ago.

highsec rage

Besides, if you want to do something about HS incursions and their risk factor then do it. Mechanics exist in this game that allow you to create risk for them.

Sounds like my knowledge is outdated then.

Easy to say but near impossible to do. You cannot gank these fleets and hope to make anything but a massive loss. They sport hefty tanks, roll with six and up t2 logi ships and pack a lot of firepower. They will rip apart a gank fleet like a knife through butter.

Very. Nobody has ratted with supers since the tracking titan nerf.

They are changing null sov mechanics and we have as a result abandoned several regions.



Easy to say but near impossible to do. You cannot gank these fleets and hope to make anything but a massive loss. They sport hefty tanks, roll with six and up t2 logi ships and pack a lot of firepower. They will rip apart a gank fleet like a knife through butter.

LOL the ironing is delicious.

"Hey guys HS Incursions aren't Risky enough"

Then go do something about it.

"Nah man too much risk"

what a ******* joke.

Honest question, most incursions sit with the mom exposed for days, leaving a clear course to end the isk making potential while avoiding any more risk of loss than the incursion runners themselves face. Why is this not utilized more often? Also why is ganking usually considered the first thought for a player based solution rather than this.