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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10826
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:10:05 -
[451] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.
And it will fail, because it doesn't address the same issue that doomed the anom nerf I linked: It makes more sense for an individual to make isk in safety. YOU actually suggest this, don't change now lol.
A big part of why some don't understand what's going on is misguided anti-null prejudice. It's actually funny, because they people denying the imbalance are the ones getting shafted, null types have adapted to the imbalance by learning how to afk in null on alts while making the good isk elsewhere (including incursions), all while various high sec markets get depressed save for the select few incursion runners ...
Which leads to the most supreme Irony. If CCP fixes the imbalances, everyone one wins. If they maintain the status quo, NULL SEC wins (via null alts in incursions, FW and doing low sec lvl 5s with pre-posistioned carriers, while still being able to rent out null space to nub renters who will, come June, buff our defensive indexes for us....for FREE).
It's sad that some of y'all can't see it, if you did you'd be on the right side. |
Mario Putzo
1302
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:15:01 -
[452] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient. We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.
"We don't know anything concrete, so instead of offering suggestion in F+I to improve the new NS, Im going to whine in a thread opposed to HS Incursions"
If you want better for NS, go post in any number of the threads CCP put up asking for players opinions on how stuff should change going forward, if you think NS needs more PVE related income, go suggest that.
They have already improved production, they have already improved mining, it stands to reason they will be open to discussion on improving PVE aspects as well. Im sure you will have a much easier time convincing them of NS shortfalls than 1% of the EVE population making bank in HS at any given time, being unfair. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15742
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:18:43 -
[453] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:
"We don't know anything concrete, so instead of offering suggestion in F+I to improve the new NS, Im going to whine in a thread opposed to HS Incursions"
Spoke to the devs directly and have been posting what we would need for years now in all areas of relevance.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
443
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:21:34 -
[454] - Quote
i dont know why you would oppose this, you said its not about the isk so removing nullbears from incursions would suit you you more, wait times would decrease significantly and you can run incursions till your little hearts content
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
881
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:26:30 -
[455] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient. We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.
So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works, then yell hysterically see its broken, Incursions give too much ISK, levels 4's are too safe etc. ad nauseum... Dracvlad yawns and hopes that the CCP under its current management sees though the bull put out by one segment of its player base...
Ella's Snack bar
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10826
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:36:01 -
[456] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient. We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there. So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works, then yell hysterically see its broken, Incursions give too much ISK, levels 4's are too safe etc. ad nauseum... Dracvlad yawns and hopes that the CCP under its current management sees though the bull put out by one segment of its player base...
Translation: I am powerless, dear Icelandic God, I hope someone else (CCP) does something about this, because I can't be arsed to go help Provi marshal an actual defense.
his is the only reasons Goons roll over everything now. At least I've been actually fighting them.
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
79
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:41:13 -
[457] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Translation: I am powerless, dear Icelandic God, I hope someone else (CCP) does something about this, because I can't be arsed to go help Provi marshal an actual defense.
his is the only reasons Goons roll over everything now. At least I've been actually fighting them.
This is even touchin my old withered heart
Can I stand back and watch Provi Polandise?
Should I send the fams into the grinder as the Supers close in all around?
Decisions decisions |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
881
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:44:58 -
[458] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient. We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there. So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works, then yell hysterically see its broken, Incursions give too much ISK, levels 4's are too safe etc. ad nauseum... Dracvlad yawns and hopes that the CCP under its current management sees though the bull put out by one segment of its player base... Translation: I am powerless, dear Icelandic God, I hope someone else (CCP) does something about this, because I can't be arsed to go help Provi marshal an actual defense. his is the only reasons Goons roll over everything now. At least I've been actually fighting them.
You fighting the Goons, another one of your fantasies...
Ella's Snack bar
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15744
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Posted - 2015.04.28 21:08:14 -
[459] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi
Any potential burning of provi (one of the most poor areas of null) has literally nothing at all to do with the subject of this thread.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12831
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Posted - 2015.04.28 22:15:06 -
[460] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works
Ha ha, what? Are we talking about the same Provi? The nightmarishly convoluted, pants on head rules enforced solely by CVA's whiny attempts at social pressure?
Provi, and it's hand wringing, limp wristed proponents, is one of the game's biggest jokes.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1073
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Posted - 2015.04.28 23:12:19 -
[461] - Quote
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:^^ok.
As to the OP, incursion income is out of whack in HS, related to other activities. I would increase the risk, and leave income potential at the current levels. Remove Concord response in incursion systems. Let the players dictate the risk levels. then you might as well go to lowsec. honestly most players risk billion isk+ ships to run incursions, but if they don't ever lose them then I guess that isn't much of a risk. but that risk gets hard to quantify as not losing a ship depends on other players doing their role. most of my incursion experience was running VGs at off peak hours, and as far as that goes I'd rather just run lv4 missions. maybe these days the communities are better and you can do HQs/Assaults or whatever you do at more hours so that would be one thing, but also that HQs have a double? payout of VGs. and then there are scouts which got "buffed" but apparently to a state where they are useless. I have yet to ever ask anything be "nerfed", especially incomes. In a way, this would be asking for a "buff" to PvP, by removing the NPC oversight during (sigh) an NPC event. Why not throw in the Drifters/Sleepers, and belt rats too and make it an NPC fest, and we can all sit around and watch the NPC's fight each other. And then fight each other to scoop up the loot drops... Less NPCs all around, it is supposed to be PvP is it not? Or maybe I joined EvE for all the wrong reasons....? Sighs...
one persons buff to pvp is another persons nerf to income. Lowsec incursions get better payouts as a compensation for the additional risk, and well I'm not so sure how often they actually get run. Hell I've seen people complain 0.0 incursions aren't worth doing either.
and just because some people are doing PVE here, doesn't mean there aren't people doing pvp there. as much as some people want pvp everywhere all the time, there are plenty of people who don't, and I'm okay with that.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1074
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Posted - 2015.04.28 23:45:47 -
[462] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient. We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.
that has been my main issue with 0.0 for as long as I've been playing. It never felt like it was worth it to be in null as an individual, Ratting/anoms feel constricting to me. If more than a few people want to be active a system can't support that. Sure when you are part of a blue doughnut empire you can just switch systems. I just don't understand why they haven't added any group PVE for null. I want to play with people! plus if a fight comes along I want to be in some sort of position to take the fight rather than have half a dozen people scattered over a constellation and the best move being safe up.
@ChainsawPlankto
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
222
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:12:12 -
[463] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient. We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there. "We don't know anything concrete, so instead of offering suggestion in F+I to improve the new NS, Im going to whine in a thread opposed to HS Incursions" If you want better for NS, go post in any number of the threads CCP put up asking for players opinions on how stuff should change going forward, if you think NS needs more PVE related income, go suggest that. They have already improved production, they have already improved mining, it stands to reason they will be open to discussion on improving PVE aspects as well. Im sure you will have a much easier time convincing them of NS shortfalls than <1% of the EVE population making bank in HS at any given time, being unfair. It's baltec1. Did you actually expect anything but illogical thoughts to escape his mouth?
Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1737
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:17:28 -
[464] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:[ We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null. You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient. We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there. that has been my main issue with 0.0 for as long as I've been playing. It never felt like it was worth it to be in null as an individual, Ratting/anoms feel constricting to me. If more than a few people want to be active a system can't support that. Sure when you are part of a blue doughnut empire you can just switch systems. I just don't understand why they haven't added any group PVE for null. I want to play with people! plus if a fight comes along I want to be in some sort of position to take the fight rather than have half a dozen people scattered over a constellation and the best move being safe up.
The problem of lack of group content is completely related to the omnipresence of alts. Why would you do something with someone when you can do it by yourself? Your alt is pretty much just as good as anyone at doing most PvE in EVE. Anything you can "team up with friends" to do can be done with alts too and then you keep the whole proceedings instead of just a fraction of it. |
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
71
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:37:34 -
[465] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote: one persons buff to pvp is another persons nerf to income. Lowsec incursions get better payouts as a compensation for the additional risk, and well I'm not so sure how often they actually get run. Hell I've seen people complain 0.0 incursions aren't worth doing either.
and just because some people are doing PVE here, doesn't mean there aren't people doing pvp there. as much as some people want pvp everywhere all the time, there are plenty of people who don't, and I'm okay with that.
Everyone I know in lowsec would rather NOT have incursions there, it just spoils their PvP battles.
One last try at compromise:
My Momma always had a wooden spoon as a weapon. Give the Sansha Momma a Lux Kontos. And somebody done made Momma mad... |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5040
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Posted - 2015.04.29 00:58:51 -
[466] - Quote
/signed, highsec incursion ISK printing is a cancer, and EVE needs some chemotherapy.
The Ishtar was overpowered in starship combat PVP, and it was (correctly) nerfed to bring it into line. Sucks a bit for me as I like flying the Ishtar, but the right decision was made for game balance.
Highsec incursions are considerably more unbalanced in ISK generation PVP than the Ishtar ever was in starship combat PVP.
It is possible to inflict damage on incursion runners with ganks, but the presence of acceleration gates and flaws in the Sansha AI provide a level of protection to incursion grinders that is not commensurate with the income stream.
A fix to the AI issues would bring quite a bit more balance into the equation. A change to make Sansha rats ignore EWAR (including warp scrambling) unless it is aimed at them would make ganking incursion grinders more viable.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
148
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Posted - 2015.04.29 03:02:40 -
[467] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:Please, make others' enterprise less profitable, or at least make mine more so! It's only fair! Though, I don't do anything remotely like these other people, and never go where they are, the very thought that they're there making ISK just bugs me. So, CCP, take your million dollar machine and turn it toward my inclinations and personal preferences. You know the Great Gaming God is on my side!
/Thread |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1076
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Posted - 2015.04.29 05:26:49 -
[468] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:The problem of lack of group content is completely related to the omnipresence of alts. Why would you do something with someone when you can do it by yourself? Your alt is pretty much just as good as anyone at doing most PvE in EVE. Anything you can "team up with friends" to do can be done with alts too and then you keep the whole proceedings instead of just a fraction of it.
I hardly think alts are the problem when you only need 1-2 other accounts for the hardest of 0.0 PVE activities. I think some 10/10s are even soloable these days. IMO it is hard to call anoms anything other than solo activities. I do think it is a good thing to have solo activities as sometimes players have limited time to get on and need something they can quickly jump in and out of, but they should for sure have something better to do as a group when they have the time. When you can ISBox incursions then yes imo there is a problem, but CCP seems to have dealt with that. and AFAIK there isn't any 0.0 content like that that is readily available.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Josef Djugashvilis
2940
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Posted - 2015.04.29 07:56:49 -
[469] - Quote
I have never taken part in an incursion, nor do I wish to, but I am just so jealous that some folk make more isk per hour than me.
CCP please stop folk doing anything that allows them to me make more isk per hour than I do.
Thank you.
This is not a signature.
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Seven Koskanaiken
Positive Failure Black Legion.
1486
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Posted - 2015.04.29 08:09:29 -
[470] - Quote
Pay out in LP only, let the market sort it out.
Dracvlad wrote:Speedkermit Damo wrote:All those thousands of Supercaps, the proliferation of which ruined nullsec.
I'll wager that a larger proportion of those were funded by running incursions. Sorry I think you are wrong, I would wager that the majority of Supers and Titans are owned by people who are in the alliances that directly controlled the Tech during the critical period of its imbalance, and while a significant number of supers may have been funded by Incursions its is totally dwarfed by those funded by moon goo enriched alliances... Its the Technicium imbalance that screwed up Eve, Incursions are the equivalent of peeing in a rain storm...
The drone alloys caused the proliferation of supers. |
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Otso Bakarti
Aliastra Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2015.04.29 08:18:27 -
[471] - Quote
I see the usual suspects are keeping this line of BS live. Really, there's nothing on earth that rates this much bandwidth, not even The Ultimate Question.
42 Right back atcha. (And, yes. Call me a carebear again. It seems to do so much for you.)
We aim to PLEASE!!
I survived Win95
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Dextrome Thorphan
RvB - RED Federation
121
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Posted - 2015.04.29 08:29:31 -
[472] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:Or drastically drop their payouts not the point of killing them but to a more balanced level compared to other highsec activities.
Highsec Incursions payout WAY too much for the risk and time you take.
Many people run incursions to plex accounts log out for the month.
Theres little to no incentive to do anything else in the game once you start running incursions, you wont stop, and you will not do anything else other than your casual pvp on a random alt when the opportunity arises.
I dunno man... I find incursions to be one of the most boring activities... I even find doing nullsec anoms with a passive drone fit less boring, and more profitable (I know this ain't highsec but meh... not much risk involved in running anoms either if you don't go afk). |
Dextrome Thorphan
RvB - RED Federation
121
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Posted - 2015.04.29 08:37:44 -
[473] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:Otso Bakarti wrote:Please, make others' enterprise less profitable, or at least make mine more so! It's only fair! Though, I don't do anything remotely like these other people, and never go where they are, the very thought that they're there making ISK just bugs me. So, CCP, take your million dollar machine and turn it toward my inclinations and personal preferences. You know the Great Gaming God is on my side! I dont what? I run incursions since 2011 when they came out mr. With 2 or 3 accounts, lately only 2 or 1 depends. I know every single thing about incursions and how bad they truly are. (in terms of how much they destroy the real eve) Im only here to expose them because Im tired of this "eve" of today and miss the old one, the one without incursions.
So basically, you earned a shitload off of incursions and now you're sick of them and are doing them less and less... so now is the time to start complaining? So other people can't earn that much now that you aren't doing them full-time anymore? Give me a break :p
I agree about the risk vs reward thing, but it just seems kind of lame how first you exploit it for years and then start complaining about it. |
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
449
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Posted - 2015.04.29 08:44:06 -
[474] - Quote
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:2Sonas1Cup wrote:Otso Bakarti wrote:Please, make others' enterprise less profitable, or at least make mine more so! It's only fair! Though, I don't do anything remotely like these other people, and never go where they are, the very thought that they're there making ISK just bugs me. So, CCP, take your million dollar machine and turn it toward my inclinations and personal preferences. You know the Great Gaming God is on my side! I dont what? I run incursions since 2011 when they came out mr. With 2 or 3 accounts, lately only 2 or 1 depends. I know every single thing about incursions and how bad they truly are. (in terms of how much they destroy the real eve) Im only here to expose them because Im tired of this "eve" of today and miss the old one, the one without incursions. So basically, you earned a shitload off of incursions and now you're sick of them and are doing them less and less... so now is the time to start complaining? So other people can't earn that much now that you aren't doing them full-time anymore? Give me a break :p I agree about the risk vs reward thing, but it just seems kind of lame how first you exploit it for years and then start complaining about it.
its not the first time this discussion has been brought up and i doubt it will be the last
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Nulli Secunda
254
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Posted - 2015.04.29 10:18:58 -
[475] - Quote
Do they pay out too much isk for the risk... obviously
Am I going to jump on the nerf incursions bandwagon.. nope
Why?
Because I don't do them and they don't affect the way I play.
And before you start. Im not interested in your 400 pages of financial asshattery "proving" that incursions are killing eve, cos I look out of my window and see shedloads of people playing the game still.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2093
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Posted - 2015.04.29 11:14:29 -
[476] - Quote
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
So basically, you earned a shitload off of incursions and now you're sick of them and are doing them less and less... so now is the time to start complaining? So other people can't earn that much now that you aren't doing them full-time anymore? Give me a break :p
I agree about the risk vs reward thing, but it just seems kind of lame how first you exploit it for years and then start complaining about it.
It's even better, Incursions have already been Nerfed since 2011 once anyway. What they are complaining about is the formation of resilient adaptable communities that have learnt to deal with all the things gankers do. They travel fit their ships when moving, they move the super valuable modules in blockade runners or other cloaky ships that enter warp fast, they overheat tank when targeted or even if gankers simply appear on grid, logi know to pre lock when gankers are around on certain priority targets and pre overheat reps, yet apparently.... the formation of such a community of aware involved people is bad...... Apparently you can't succeed at EVE unless you play the Gankers way, otherwise they will demand it be nerfed or EVE will die.... or something like that. |
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
454
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Posted - 2015.04.29 11:22:58 -
[477] - Quote
you make it sound like you put effort into defending when really you just have to wait like 15secs then concord deals with everything then you can go back to the highest paid safest activity in eve, its not really about ganking its about risk and reward compared to the likes of nullsec which doesnt earn as much as highsec incursions.
if someone earns more than the guy risking more then obviously there is an imbalance and highsec incursions are not balanced with the rest of the activities in eve
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Solecist Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
22196
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Posted - 2015.04.29 11:27:35 -
[478] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:Do they pay out too much isk for the risk... obviously
Am I going to jump on the nerf incursions bandwagon.. nope
Why?
Because I don't do them and they don't affect the way I play.
And before you start. Im not interested in your 400 pages of financial asshattery "proving" that incursions are killing eve, cos I look out of my window and see shedloads of people playing the game still. Nit caring about the greater good is pretty common nowadays.
As long as they only detain everyone else it's all fine. No need to raise your voice about it. When they come for you, there will be no one left to raise his voice.
Selfish prick.
I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror.
Have everything you posess taken away from you.
Most importantly ... yourself.
Corpses4Drifters
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1740
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Posted - 2015.04.29 11:57:50 -
[479] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Mithandra wrote:Do they pay out too much isk for the risk... obviously
Am I going to jump on the nerf incursions bandwagon.. nope
Why?
Because I don't do them and they don't affect the way I play.
And before you start. Im not interested in your 400 pages of financial asshattery "proving" that incursions are killing eve, cos I look out of my window and see shedloads of people playing the game still. Nit caring about the greater good is pretty common nowadays. As long as they only detain everyone else it's all fine. No need to raise your voice about it. When they come for you, there will be no one left to raise his voice. Selfish prick.
Making a big deal out of everything is just as common.
When something really big comes, people are tired of the bullshitting you already generated over banalities and will let you to protest alone. |
Solecist Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
22206
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Posted - 2015.04.29 12:05:45 -
[480] - Quote
Yeah that's actually common practise nowadays. It's a great way to influence the masses. ^_^
I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror.
Have everything you posess taken away from you.
Most importantly ... yourself.
Corpses4Drifters
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