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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
VR Highfive
Raptor Industries
Art of War Alliance
61
   |
Posted - 2012.01.10 20:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
Bump, I hope there are more podcasts coming soon. 
I finally got my first solo kill in a BC this week vs a Cane, yay! I have been roaming low sec a bit looking for trouble cause I got inspired by your podcasts and many of the vids posted on these forums. Although these podcasts and the video commentaries kil2 makes are really the most helpful.
Thanks for the inspiration guys,
keep em comming |
Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
R.E.P.O.
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 18:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
Alright, I noticed how you mentioned that alpha wasn't that important if you can't 1-shot or do enough to push past a local tank, so I made a little graph to show how actual DPS is different from EFT or in-game DPS.
Graph of Maelstrom DPS
I rounded the RoF slightly (had 16.49639) or so to 16.5 to make the calculations more simple. But look at the graph. You can see the major of advantages of alpha occuring on the first volley, then the damage actually normalizes to the EFT damage over a long period of time. This is kindof a hidden advantage of high alpha and sniper fleets, IE if you have 2-3 of these maelstroms and say it takes 3 volleys to pop your target, your actual DPS when that 3rd volley hit is close to 1000 than the 686 that EFT shows.
Why is it higher you might ask? Because cycle time doesn't start until AFTER the first volley. |
Kil2
Club Bear
110
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 19:25:00 -
[93] - Quote
Jaigar thanks for that. I've never realized that and it makes a lot of things fit for me that seemed a bit weird.
I still stand by the fact that alpha is a generally misunderstood and overrated idea, especially at a really small scale. But that goes a long way to clarify why its so strong at a larger scale.
Maybe sometime I will get the chance to include this graph/explanation in the podcast, I think a lot of people could benefit from understanding it. |
Akaria Cicero
Coffee 'n' Cigarettes
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 22:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
Episode 3 is mixed too quiet. Anyone else got this? |
Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
R.E.P.O.
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 04:24:00 -
[95] - Quote
Just to clarify that Kil2, those numbers are purely theoretical and only useful to look at in a small range of situations such as hit and runs. IE, sometimes you want to support your fleet on field but the tackle is too quick, so you can only get 1 or 2 volleys off before you are forced to warp away, and sometimes tracking is an issue with 1400s (especially with tornados) if the pilot is not controlling his transversal. The situation could also be that your are anti-Recon support and only show up to remove recons from fields. In reality its more of a check on EFT than anything else and understanding how paper DPS is different from actual.
Personally I think you should do a little segment on explaining the differences between optimal and falloff. I find a lot of players don't understand how damage is effected by falloff and when an extra range might do them more good than another damage module. |
Kil2
Club Bear
110
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 05:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
Yeah most of the stuff that goes with using long range fleets makes sense to me, it was just that critical idea that your dps can change over multiple cycles because of the first volley being "free". I had always imagined the dps working the way it would if the volley came at the end of the cycle.
I do think talking about optimal and falloff would be good, we might do it this week actually, it was on my list of maybes. |
Kovorix
Matari Exodus
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 21:16:00 -
[97] - Quote
While definitely a good point, I think you're forgetting lock time and its function as a kind of first cycle. So in that sense, SeBos are actually dps modules when used in alpha fleets, because your lock time relative to your enemy's lock time matters (ie if you lock faster, your first 'cycle' is faster by that amount, and so your dps is higher). |
Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
R.E.P.O.
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 02:33:00 -
[98] - Quote
Yeah lock time is a factor, but its a factor no matter what weapon system you are using. But that DPS graph is actually more appropriate for a tornado who can lokc quickly and move on and off grid quickly. |
Siiee
Recycled Heroes
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 03:34:00 -
[99] - Quote
Very interesting. I thought that something was really misleading about that graph so I made my own, and I have to say I can't argue with it.
Damage over time
I also included a 4 second "lock time" at the beginning of the sequence, which accounts for why the damage dips below the true average. And for reference I also charted a theoretical weapon with half the alpha and double the firing rate, but no real surprises there. |
Harrigan VonStudly
The Generic Pirate Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 20:13:00 -
[100] - Quote
Listening to the first podcast now. Excellent so far. I'm sure the others are as well. Also subscribed to your You tube channel. Excellent videos. Props for sharing. |
IIFraII
Red Nemesis
31ST Reliables Division
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 08:36:00 -
[101] - Quote
really good stuff and it also perfectly complements the videos.
Keep it up! 
|
Kil2
Club Bear
114
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 03:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
added episode 4
covers a fight with a common but difficult situation
covers turret range
covers morale and how to stay positive when soloing (thanks laktos)
hope you enjoy! |
Hash Arzi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 04:29:00 -
[103] - Quote
Could you index the podcast? (i.e. Morale - 42:30)
Good job so far, I'm really enjoying the podcasts :) Good information except sometimes I already know enough about the topic at hand and wish to skip to he next, having an index would help !
A VERY important topic that I believe you should cover is what to do when running into a gate camp. Different situations/ships=different actions. |
Jezs
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 06:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
A note about falloff, at optimal + falloff you actually do less than half damage (was about 37% last time I tested it) due to the fact that it lowers the hit quality (light hit, etc) as well as doing no damage half the time. This seems to be accurately reflected in eft graphs now although they used to have it at 50% in older versions |
Kovorix
Matari Exodus
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 14:11:00 -
[105] - Quote
Jezs wrote:A note about falloff, at optimal + falloff you actually do less than half damage (was about 37% last time I tested it) due to the fact that it lowers the hit quality (light hit, etc) as well as doing no damage half the time. This seems to be accurately reflected in eft graphs now although they used to have it at 50% in older versions
Ah nice. That explains why I found (as I said in the podcast) that the cane is doing 50% damage at 28km when the falloff is 30k... was confused about that  thanks |
Viribus
Lynch Squad
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 18:18:00 -
[106] - Quote
Soloing drives me to drink  |
Penelope Star
Club Bear
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 19:35:00 -
[107] - Quote
Really enjoying these
You're both clearly enjoying the process of producing new episodes and so its a lot of fun to listen to.
This episode got me thinking a lot about setting goals. Mine have always been quite vague but now I'm inspired to make them more specific.
I know your type: -á tall, dark and dead |
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
135
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 03:16:00 -
[108] - Quote
This episode really highlights the biggest frustration I have about EVE. That is, basically, that I was ruined by other MMOs before I got here. Most other MMOs take you by the hand and define success FOR you. You know exactly how good a raider or PVPer you are, because the game has predefined the metrics of success (usually with points or gear drops or something).
EVE doesn't bother with this, but if you've cut your teeth on lesser MMOs then it can be a bit bewildering. I've been playing for a couple of years and I still get lost a lot because I keep expecting EVE to tell me what I'm supposed to be doing. Which, of course, is silly.
I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
50
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 08:10:00 -
[109] - Quote
Great stuff in the podcast. One suggestion - since the OP of this thread is serving as a kind of index, it might be worth including little summaries of the topics covered in each issue alongside the links to download them. |
Laktos
Gunpoint Diplomacy
75
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 14:26:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ep 4 was great. Probably my favourite so far (has nothing to do with the fact you dropped my name and talked about my suggestion... honest! :P ).
As usual, eagerly awaiting the next instalment!
I found kovorix's comments about why he loves soloing compared to flying with gangmates really interesting as it's pretty much exactly how I feel too.
I absolutely love my corp and the guys in it. And I get a blast from flying with them and chatting to them. But solo offers a form of freedom you can never get in a gang. To just do what you want to do, with nobody to disagree, or tell you why something is stupid or wrong. Plus it's just a lot more relaxing and easier to make decisions by yourself and for yourself, rather than having to communicate and decide on something with other people.
I tend to fly maybe 50-60% solo over the course of a few months on average. And the rest in small gangs with my corp mates. I miss them sometimes, but I find myself flying solo more and more as once you start to get a feel for it and start to truly enjoy it, the pure freedom can take on a certain addictive quality. At least that is my experience.
Latest PVP Video: Laktos Intolerance 2
Sard Caid does not endorse this message. |
Alexg567
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 14:27:00 -
[111] - Quote
Loving the podcast. One thing I would highlight is one of you(kovorix i think) has an echo around halfway through. |
Lady Killjoy
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 14:47:00 -
[112] - Quote
I just wanted to say that this podcast is amazing, and i'm gonna go out to pvp because of this.
Thank you for making these! |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
219
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 16:50:00 -
[113] - Quote
IMO this is the best podcast out now. Thanks for doing this. I am learning.
I was thinking about doing something like this becaus there is a need. But I won't be able to.
A few topics you may want to discuss:
1) the 2 typse of speed tanking. Tracking versus range speed tanking and how you fit ships differently for each.
2)the importance of knowing scram web and disruptor ranges and what they are with overheat.
3)As well as knowing how much damage your ships does *at the ranges you want to be at.* in other words using the dps graph.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Duncan Tanner
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
125
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 23:09:00 -
[114] - Quote
@ 0:59:00 I'd like to clarify this part because I think you misunderstood my meaning.
Also, I don't think I said anything about reaching a point where you never make mistakes or never die because I think that's impossible (I've died almost 500 times lol). That sort of thing sounds like the domain of people who camp stations with carrier support to scoop their ships while aggressed or those who do the same thing with orcas on lowsec gates into hisec (back when these things were possible).
Anyway, I was refering specifically to roaming solo in frigates when I said that if you've died it's because you've made a mistake.
When learning to pvp I did not like that soloing in larger ships could sometimes result in situations I couldn't control and therefore couldn't really learn from. It's why I chose to do it in frigates (interceptors/t1) because their mobility gives them the ability to completely control when and how you decide to engage. So dying unintentionally (i.e. apart from suiciding for a kill) is because you made a mistake somehow and from that I felt you could learn something from every death. It's true that they are very unforgiving ships but I just saw that as more opportunity to learn from mistakes. I think this control that they give you is part of why the people that fly them solo like them so much.
If I had to make the same type of comment in more general terms, I'd say:
Trying to analyze how you could've handled a situation differently is more constructive than blaming your death on factors outside your control and then dismissing it. There are certainly situations you can get into where there wasn't anything you could've done but in the majority of situations there is usually is something you could've done differently. I don't think this can ever lead to perfection and never losing ships but I think it will make you better at pvp. I think that never making mistakes and never losing ships is impossible unless you don't ever undock. However, you can always improve by learning from your mistakes.
Keep up the good work btw. |
Viribus
Lynch Squad
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 00:14:00 -
[115] - Quote
I wish I could afford to lose enough ships to get good at eve. |
Hayley Enaka
Battle With Halibut Swords
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 01:31:00 -
[116] - Quote
Great podcast so far, just finished episode two and there's alot of good info and tips in there. Loving the PVP commentaries on the youtube channel as well.
Forgive me if this has been covered in Ep 3 or 4, but when you were talking about finding fights in episode two, I don't believe there was any talking about determining if a ship or gang is "engagable". When I was starting out, this was something I had a fair bit of difficulty with, that is, does my "x" beat the enemies "y". I understand that this is very situational, but even some general tips would be useful for newer pilots, such as being careful about engaging ships with neuts or drone boats, or what types of ships to avoid based on what size/class of ship you're flying. Perhaps identiy what kinds of ships can be large threats and why, such as recons or fast tackle.
Overall, very good podcasts, can't wait till I get home from work to listen to episodes 3 and 4, and any after that. Keep it up. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
95
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 02:43:00 -
[117] - Quote
Hayley Enaka wrote:
Forgive me if this has been covered in Ep 3 or 4, but when you were talking about finding fights in episode two, I don't believe there was any talking about determining if a ship or gang is "engagable". When I was starting out, this was something I had a fair bit of difficulty with, that is, does my "x" beat the enemies "y"
'Engagable' has nothing to do with 'beats'. Do you really believe all the moviemakers start their fights being sure they'll win? 
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
Kil2
Club Bear
120
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 02:52:00 -
[118] - Quote
Hayley I like that question a lot. I'm not sure if its something that can be pinned down in a very neat way, but I really like the idea of giving some kind of process by which a newer player can maybe make a conclusion about the prospect of engaging a certain group over another. Even if the exact outcome was unknown (which it usually is), doing some work towards establishing what groups might be good to engage and which might not would probably be useful for a lot of folks.
I'll keep it in mind and see if we can work it in somehow, even if just to outline how the decision was made about engaging or not engaging in the first section of the podcast where we talk about a particular fight.
Thanks everyone else as always for feedback.
And thanks Duncan for the write up, I didn't mean to misrepresent you even though I did exaggerate a bit for effect =) |
Hayley Enaka
Battle With Halibut Swords
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 03:40:00 -
[119] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Hayley Enaka wrote:
Forgive me if this has been covered in Ep 3 or 4, but when you were talking about finding fights in episode two, I don't believe there was any talking about determining if a ship or gang is "engagable". When I was starting out, this was something I had a fair bit of difficulty with, that is, does my "x" beat the enemies "y"
'Engagable' has nothing to do with 'beats'. Do you really believe all the moviemakers start their fights being sure they'll win?
Haha thats true, the challenge of having the odds against you is part of the fun. These podcasts are making me want to go roaming again, been sitting in one place too long |
Akbhar
Purging Maelstrom
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 04:05:00 -
[120] - Quote
I am trying to get myself into small scale and solo PvP and this Podcast helps a lot. I really enjoy it and I learn a lot. Flying active Ferox now and I must say it's actually an amazing ship in small engagements and a lot of fun to fly.
I really like the idea of frapsing every fight and likely will do it in the future. It sure gives you a different perspective on losses and you have the option of reviewing your engagement and identify stuff to improve on.
As Hayley Enaka suggested I would find it very helpful to know how you guys decide if you should engage a specific gang or not. I think this is where you can loose the fight first (as in not getting, or in not winning).
I'd also like to hear about options how to dodge fights that I decided I don't want to take. I know you can't always dodge fights but techniques to try to could be a topic.
I find it absolutely amazing that you both spend so much time and effort on my (and others) education as an eve player. I really appreciate it.
Shout out to all Movie-makers, you guys are amazing. |
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