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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
5789
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:35:43 -
[1] - Quote
With the Carnyx release on June 2nd we got a set of competely new icons in space and in the overview. Such a large change naturally has raised the attention of many players and we have received a lot of feedback raising questions and pointing to some issues (for example with UI scaling and difficulties differentiating between NPCs and players).
Please read the blog Feedback on the new Overview Brackets by CCP Surge to learn more about the design and goals behind those new icons and the road ahead!
As always, your constructive feedback is most welcome and helpful. Thank you!
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1525
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:44:50 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:Improve NPC and player ship distinction
We agree with much of the feedback that the subtle interior fill to indicate NPCs is simply not drastic enough, so weGÇÖre looking at other ways to make NPC brackets more clearly identifiable compared to player-controlled ships.
This is very, very simple: Fill the NPC icons with the same color as the outline. Solid white/grey for nonhostile, and solid red for hostile. Done.
As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken.
Edit - first! \o\
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Mona Kasenumi
Wrong Cyno Brothers of Tangra
2
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:45:07 -
[3] - Quote
The main issue for me after a couple of days is still npc x players and swarm of drones. Other than that I think that they are great! |
Casey Ambraelle
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:50:01 -
[4] - Quote
Maybe make the NPC's a solid filled icon instead of kinda filled as they currently are to give more distinction between players and NPC's? |
Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
51
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:50:21 -
[5] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:[quote] As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken.
This is a huge one, sorting by icon is horrible right now. Also drone icons are atrocious, I'm really not sure what to be afraid of as an FC. On top of that wrecks just don't look distinct enough to really be wrecks differentiated from fleet ships. |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
210
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:51:23 -
[6] - Quote
The VAST VAST majority of your player base is sayimg NO we dont want these icons. Give us optiom to use old til you fix it!
Just like the map team! They are smart. Just like the corp title switch people. They are smart.
These artists? LoL
Give us an option to revert and not use your terrible new icons.
From SiSi you had thousands of replies with negative feedback. From Carnage release thread you have thousands more negative icon-hating feedbacks. Im sure this will be the same.
Dude just give up and give in?
WHY CANT WE HAVE OPTION TO REVERT TEMPORARILY?? JUST TIL YOU FIX THIS STUFF? WHY NOT? WHY? |
Hendrink Collie
Steel Fleet Gentlemen's.Club
30
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:55:07 -
[7] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:The VAST VAST majority of your player base is sayimg NO we dont want these icons. Give us optiom to use old til you fix it!
I wouldn't say a VAST VAST majority, but at the very least a VERY loud minority. An option to use the old ones similar to maps would be pretty cool though. Personally other than the destroyer icon, which I have confused for the old wreck icon a couple times, the icons are not bad and I'm getting used to them just fine. I would love an option to sort/filter by icon though, that would be super sweet.
Thanks for the update! |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
3890
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:55:20 -
[8] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken.
Edit - first! \o\ It first sorts based on the icon's "flag" and backgrounds , so it will sort the list so your -10 contacts are grouped together and the -5 together, etc. And within those groups it will sort based on ship groups and categories.
CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Pirate Unicorns |-á@CCP_karkur
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7128
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:56:31 -
[9] - Quote
The vocal few do not always represent the silent mass, Carrie-Anne, polemics aside.
That said, there's clearly still work to be done on the brackets, but I do think the set will be an improvement in the long term once that work is done.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Martin Corwin
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
30
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:57:56 -
[10] - Quote
Love the new icons. Please don't listen too all these fossils complaining and keep them! |
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Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
184
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:57:58 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks for taking the threadnaught of bad feedback and requests for a "Use old Icons" button into consideration, along with all the complaints about color blindness, etc.
Your willingness to listen to your playerbase on the icon issue, the new and massively improved map, and these awesome new fleet warp changes are greatly appreciated, and in no way make your playerbase want to start shooting at statues.
With your skyrocketing player numbers, you should definitely continue to carefully consider player feedback as well as you have been doing lately. I'm sure your numbers will only continue to go up. |
Blue Harrier
196
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:58:45 -
[12] - Quote
You still havenGÇÖt answered the question for me, how are you working to update the icons for colour blind users?
What does it matter what colour my GÇÿin spaceGÇÖ (not overview) icons are coloured, only I can see them, it matters not if I have bright orange as GÇÿhostileGÇÖ, blue as GÇÿfriendGÇÖ and white as GÇÿI donGÇÖt care what you areGÇÖ. Only I (thatGÇÖs me) can see them, it interferes with no one else, but I canGÇÖt.
But these small (as in tiny even at 1080p) icons are so damn small that even in the overview I have difficulty working out what they are and in space well itGÇÖs a no no from the start.
Sadly colour blindness is not classed as a disability in the UK (I believe some countries do class it so) so I canGÇÖt wave a sheaf of paper under your noses to get something done.
ThatGÇÖs it, I shall say no more on the subject.
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
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Casey Ambraelle
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:03:50 -
[13] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken.
Edit - first! \o\ It first sorts based on the icon's "flag" and backgrounds , so it will sort the list so your -10 contacts are grouped together and the -5 together, etc. And within those groups it will sort based on ship groups and categories.
Change the sort order so that it first sorts on ship size/group then on standings. Hell why is it even sorting based on standings to begin with? With specific overview presets to show only hostiles, hostiles in x ship, etc it seams kinda redundant for it to sort based on standings first before any user selected sorting. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2221
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:05:56 -
[14] - Quote
Ripblade Falconpunch wrote:Thanks for taking the threadnaught of bad feedback and requests for a "Use old Icons" button into consideration, along with all the complaints about color blindness, etc.
Your willingness to listen to your playerbase on the icon issue, the new and massively improved map, and these awesome new fleet warp changes are greatly appreciated, and in no way make your playerbase want to start shooting at statues.
With your skyrocketing player numbers, you should definitely continue to carefully consider player feedback as well as you have been doing lately. I'm sure your numbers will only continue to go up.
As i know this is sarcasm, i will point out that PCU count =! subscription numbers. And as ccp has that information and should, in theory, be working accordingly to keep that information going up, or stable, i'll place you in the 'i have no idea what i am talking about' category, because unless you work for ccp, you *gasp* have no idea what you are talking about
a small example why you have no idea what you are talking about. I have 4 accounts, all paid for a year. i use 2 every day, and the other 2 only when needed. they have over a year of skills training, so i have no need to log in. I am sure others are in the same boat, or even on a break while there char still trains. This would in no way effect sub numbers but would effect player counts. A better gage of how healthy eve is will be towards the end of the year, after the sov changes are in and moving (maybe phase 3 will be done too) and hopefully phase 1 of new structures will be in. Then you will see if some of the old stuff being fixed and changed will bring people back. For all i know, there are several thousand accounts waiting for fozzy sov to hit before coming back. but meh we will see. Anyway, you still have no evidence to support your sarcastic claim.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
423
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:06:21 -
[15] - Quote
Personally, I really like the vast majority of the new icons. You can actually tell ship sizes and classes apart at a glance once you learn the icons, something you could never do with the generic square brackets.
There's a few bad ones though, drones being the worst. When every ship launches a set of drones in a fight the brackets add a great deal of clutter and make it hard to distinguish between ship brackets and drone brackets. From reading the blog it seems that you recognize this though which is a good sign. |
Judith Baker
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:11:07 -
[16] - Quote
Just add the ability for us to use custom icon packs. |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
210
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
SiSi the TEST SERVER exists so you guys can TEST STUFF THAT AINT READY
Until you fixed all the issues and did all this future work om them
KEEP THEM ON THE TEST SERVER DUDE
Thats what is exists for.
DoNt put unfinshed stuff on TQ |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1527
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:17:57 -
[18] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken.
Edit - first! \o\ It first sorts based on the icon's "flag" and backgrounds , so it will sort the list so your -10 contacts are grouped together and the -5 together, etc. And within those groups it will sort based on ship groups and categories. This is the sort of thing that falls under "completely not obvious or in any way visible to the player by any sensible means" - I doubt many (if any) players could have said that is how it worked before you posted that just now. That said, if that's how it works, it seems to me that while it might work intentionally in one manner to you guys, it's certainly not working in the manner the players intend or expect it to when we click on the header to sort by icon.
Which is why I'm mostly agreed w/ Casey here - we're looking at two different user requirements here, and so a toggle to turn the standings sort on/off within sort-by-icon would be nice. That said, I'd even go so far as to suggest properly splitting the two requirements from each other and add a standings column that could be used to sort in exactly the manner you describe. Don't need it to show anything, just the colortag for the entity.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Lady Gwendolyn Antollare
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate United Interests
9
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:25:49 -
[19] - Quote
Casey Ambraelle wrote:Maybe make the NPC's a solid filled icon instead of kinda filled as they currently are to give more distinction between players and NPC's?
EDIT: and a bigger clearer cheat sheet we can print or have as a pdf while we relearn all of them, even at expanded size the screen shot in the blog is still hard to actually see the icons.
Rix Javix Icon Guide
Nerfing Hisec has never fixed Losec or Nullsec
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Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
72
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:26:55 -
[20] - Quote
Like I predicted in the other thread, this blog post turns out to blame players for everything. Look at how insulting this section is on its own:
CCP wrote: As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGǪ Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed.
This is what they think of the player-base apparently; easily-confused, bumbling around accidentally shooting the wrong thing. You may have us confused for.. almost any other MMO's player-base, but not EVE's?
There's nothing to "adapt" to, CCP; many of us were already extremely familiar with the new icons before they were released on TQ, and are still unhappy with them. Terrible blog post.
Also re: blog post grammar, that is not what 'imminent' means.
Edit: Can we at least have the 'sort by icon' behavior on the overview sort things by size or some other logical order, not lexically based on the type of the entity? |
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
34
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:27:19 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:We are aware that a sudden and drastic update to some small but very important space symbols may have inherently vaporized several trillions of ISK from the economy. As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGǪ Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed.
But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present.
I loved it so much. GÖÑ
Thank you CCP for hearing the community and re-evaluate the NPC and drones issue.
I love the new Ship icones and i'm already used to them now, but i still have some bad feelings for some Celestial ones, like the Gate looking like a pizza piece, the Sun kinda cartoonish or the Beacon looking like a Xmas tree. :D
All in all good job as always ! Can't wait this customization option !
o/ |
Katrina Bekers
Rim Collection RC Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
245
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:31:09 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:Mea culpa to those affected. Who are you, and what you did to my CCP?
<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
757
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:09 -
[23] - Quote
Ok, so basically, CCP is going to continue pushing through the terrible icon set come what may. Fine, no surprise there, noone likes to admit that their work is shite.
But i have spacial thanks to the people who did this: "" Catering to several years of feedback telling us the old bracket system, separating ships only by size categories, was not as useful as it could be""
Whoever decided that rocking the boat was good idea, you have my personal thanks from the bottom of my heart, you truly deserve it. Thank you for ruining it for the rest of us. God bless you. |
Chessur
Mining Industry Exile Foundation Warlords of the Deep
557
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:20 -
[24] - Quote
CCP all I want is to be able to order ships / ship classes by color.
For example- if I could make
* All recon ships appear pink * All logi Green * All interceptors red
That would help IMMENSELY with my situational awareness. Give me the ability to assign colors, not just depend on this horrible symbology that is overly complicated. I need something that is quick, and intuitive. NOT something that fits inside the 'art vision'. |
Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
52
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:23 -
[25] - Quote
i dont understand why we cant have a choice in reverting to the old overview. some of the new shapes and stuff for buildings and deploy-able units is ok but the ship and my god the drone symbols in space are just so cluttered. |
Galmas
13. Enigma Project
202
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:50 -
[26] - Quote
please implement an option to move back to a more general icon set, like icon x for ships, icon y for drone, icon z for whatever else. for me 5-10 different icons would be totally fine and a big improvement over the icon nightmare it has been since the change...
I have played quite some hours since the icon change and still i am totally lost once small scale fights kick of with fleet of like 20 vs 20 with 5-6 different classes of ships... i basically have to completely ignore the icons and solely look at the type column of the overview.
The extreme granularity is a clear loss of situation awareness to me. Or the other way around my brain got too dumb after 7 or so years of actively playing and small scale fleet fighting in eve.
I have red plenty of arguments for the new icon set, the in-game experience backs almost none of them. |
Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
52
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:34:28 -
[27] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Quote:We are aware that a sudden and drastic update to some small but very important space symbols may have inherently vaporized several trillions of ISK from the economy. As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGǪ Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed.
But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present. I loved it so much. GÖÑ Thank you CCP for hearing the community and re-evaluate the NPC and drones issue. I love the new Ship icones and i'm already used to them now, but i still have some bad feelings for some Celestial ones, like the Gate looking like a pizza piece, the Sun kinda cartoonish or the Beacon looking like a Xmas tree. :D All in all good job as always ! Can't wait this customization option ! o/
See this guys runs level 4s and if i ran level 4s i would love these changes too but i dont i pvp and in a 500 man fight these changes dont work. |
Alhira Katserna
Katserna Corporation
400
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:35:31 -
[28] - Quote
Why not just color the NPCs red again? |
Callic Veratar
678
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:36:13 -
[29] - Quote
I was really confused as to why the 'new' and 'improved' icons looked so blurry. They really don't work for 90%. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
287
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:36:27 -
[30] - Quote
CCP can you link us new icons chart of something, it would be easier to discuss which icons should be changed.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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