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CCP Phantom C C P C C P Alliance 5789	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:35:43 - [1] - Quote With the Carnyx release on June 2nd we got a set of competely new icons in space and in the overview. Such a large change naturally has raised the attention of many players and we have received a lot of feedback raising questions and pointing to some issues (for example with UI scaling and difficulties differentiating between NPCs and players). Please read the blog Feedback on the new Overview Brackets by CCP Surge to learn more about the design and goals behind those new icons and the road ahead! As always, your constructive feedback is most welcome and helpful. Thank you! CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager

Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar 1525	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:44:50 - [2] - Quote Quote: Improve NPC and player ship distinction We agree with much of the feedback that the subtle interior fill to indicate NPCs is simply not drastic enough, so weGÇÖre looking at other ways to make NPC brackets more clearly identifiable compared to player-controlled ships. This is very, very simple: Fill the NPC icons with the same color as the outline. Solid white/grey for nonhostile, and solid red for hostile. Done. As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken. Edit - first! \o\ Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar Owner, The Golden Masque
Mona Kasenumi Wrong Cyno Brothers of Tangra 2	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:45:07 - [3] - Quote The main issue for me after a couple of days is still npc x players and swarm of drones. Other than that I think that they are great!
Casey Ambraelle EVE University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:50:01 - [4] - Quote Maybe make the NPC's a solid filled icon instead of kinda filled as they currently are to give more distinction between players and NPC's?
Doomchinchilla Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 51	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:50:21 - [5] - Quote Morwen Lagann wrote: [quote] As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken. This is a huge one, sorting by icon is horrible right now. Also drone icons are atrocious, I'm really not sure what to be afraid of as an FC. On top of that wrecks just don't look distinct enough to really be wrecks differentiated from fleet ships.
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 210	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:51:23 - [6] - Quote The VAST VAST majority of your player base is sayimg NO we dont want these icons. Give us optiom to use old til you fix it! Just like the map team! They are smart. Just like the corp title switch people. They are smart. These artists? LoL Give us an option to revert and not use your terrible new icons. From SiSi you had thousands of replies with negative feedback. From Carnage release thread you have thousands more negative icon-hating feedbacks. Im sure this will be the same. Dude just give up and give in? WHY CANT WE HAVE OPTION TO REVERT TEMPORARILY?? JUST TIL YOU FIX THIS STUFF? WHY NOT? WHY?
Hendrink Collie Steel Fleet Gentlemen's.Club 30	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:55:07 - [7] - Quote Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: The VAST VAST majority of your player base is sayimg NO we dont want these icons. Give us optiom to use old til you fix it! I wouldn't say a VAST VAST majority, but at the very least a VERY loud minority. An option to use the old ones similar to maps would be pretty cool though. Personally other than the destroyer icon, which I have confused for the old wreck icon a couple times, the icons are not bad and I'm getting used to them just fine. I would love an option to sort/filter by icon though, that would be super sweet. Thanks for the update!

CCP karkur C C P C C P Alliance 3890	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:55:20 - [8] - Quote Morwen Lagann wrote: As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken. Edit - first! \o\ It first sorts based on the icon's "flag" and backgrounds , so it will sort the list so your -10 contacts are grouped together and the -5 together, etc. And within those groups it will sort based on ship groups and categories. CCP karkur \| Programmer \| Team Pirate Unicorns \|-á@CCP_karkur

Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 7128	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:56:31 - [9] - Quote The vocal few do not always represent the silent mass, Carrie-Anne, polemics aside. That said, there's clearly still work to be done on the brackets, but I do think the set will be an improvement in the long term once that work is done. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Martin Corwin Reasonable People Of Sound Mind 30	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:57:56 - [10] - Quote Love the new icons. Please don't listen too all these fossils complaining and keep them!

Ripblade Falconpunch Centurion Logistics 184	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:57:58 - [11] - Quote Thanks for taking the threadnaught of bad feedback and requests for a "Use old Icons" button into consideration, along with all the complaints about color blindness, etc. Your willingness to listen to your playerbase on the icon issue, the new and massively improved map, and these awesome new fleet warp changes are greatly appreciated, and in no way make your playerbase want to start shooting at statues. With your skyrocketing player numbers, you should definitely continue to carefully consider player feedback as well as you have been doing lately. I'm sure your numbers will only continue to go up.
Blue Harrier 196	Posted - 2015.06.18 17:58:45 - [12] - Quote You still havenGÇÖt answered the question for me, how are you working to update the icons for colour blind users? What does it matter what colour my GÇÿin spaceGÇÖ (not overview) icons are coloured, only I can see them, it matters not if I have bright orange as GÇÿhostileGÇÖ, blue as GÇÿfriendGÇÖ and white as GÇÿI donGÇÖt care what you areGÇÖ. Only I (thatGÇÖs me) can see them, it interferes with no one else, but I canGÇÖt. But these small (as in tiny even at 1080p) icons are so damn small that even in the overview I have difficulty working out what they are and in space well itGÇÖs a no no from the start. Sadly colour blindness is not classed as a disability in the UK (I believe some countries do class it so) so I canGÇÖt wave a sheaf of paper under your noses to get something done. ThatGÇÖs it, I shall say no more on the subject. "You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
Casey Ambraelle EVE University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:03:50 - [13] - Quote CCP karkur wrote: Morwen Lagann wrote: As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken. Edit - first! \o\ It first sorts based on the icon's "flag" and backgrounds , so it will sort the list so your -10 contacts are grouped together and the -5 together, etc. And within those groups it will sort based on ship groups and categories. Change the sort order so that it first sorts on ship size/group then on standings. Hell why is it even sorting based on standings to begin with? With specific overview presets to show only hostiles, hostiles in x ship, etc it seams kinda redundant for it to sort based on standings first before any user selected sorting.
DaReaper Net 7 2221	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:05:56 - [14] - Quote Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: Thanks for taking the threadnaught of bad feedback and requests for a "Use old Icons" button into consideration, along with all the complaints about color blindness, etc. Your willingness to listen to your playerbase on the icon issue, the new and massively improved map, and these awesome new fleet warp changes are greatly appreciated, and in no way make your playerbase want to start shooting at statues. With your skyrocketing player numbers, you should definitely continue to carefully consider player feedback as well as you have been doing lately. I'm sure your numbers will only continue to go up. As i know this is sarcasm, i will point out that PCU count =! subscription numbers. And as ccp has that information and should, in theory, be working accordingly to keep that information going up, or stable, i'll place you in the 'i have no idea what i am talking about' category, because unless you work for ccp, you gasp have no idea what you are talking about a small example why you have no idea what you are talking about. I have 4 accounts, all paid for a year. i use 2 every day, and the other 2 only when needed. they have over a year of skills training, so i have no need to log in. I am sure others are in the same boat, or even on a break while there char still trains. This would in no way effect sub numbers but would effect player counts. A better gage of how healthy eve is will be towards the end of the year, after the sov changes are in and moving (maybe phase 3 will be done too) and hopefully phase 1 of new structures will be in. Then you will see if some of the old stuff being fixed and changed will bring people back. For all i know, there are several thousand accounts waiting for fozzy sov to hit before coming back. but meh we will see. Anyway, you still have no evidence to support your sarcastic claim. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Destoya Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 423	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:06:21 - [15] - Quote Personally, I really like the vast majority of the new icons. You can actually tell ship sizes and classes apart at a glance once you learn the icons, something you could never do with the generic square brackets. There's a few bad ones though, drones being the worst. When every ship launches a set of drones in a fight the brackets add a great deal of clutter and make it hard to distinguish between ship brackets and drone brackets. From reading the blog it seems that you recognize this though which is a good sign.
Judith Baker School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:11:07 - [16] - Quote Just add the ability for us to use custom icon packs.
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 210	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:12:00 - [17] - Quote SiSi the TEST SERVER exists so you guys can TEST STUFF THAT AINT READY Until you fixed all the issues and did all this future work om them KEEP THEM ON THE TEST SERVER DUDE Thats what is exists for. DoNt put unfinshed stuff on TQ
Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar 1527	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:17:57 - [18] - Quote CCP karkur wrote: Morwen Lagann wrote: As far as overview stuff goes... would love it if you guys could get sort-by-icon to work properly. It has never worked before, but with the icons for cruiser/battlecruiser and frigate/destroyer being distinct from one another it's even more obvious that it is broken. Edit - first! \o\ It first sorts based on the icon's "flag" and backgrounds , so it will sort the list so your -10 contacts are grouped together and the -5 together, etc. And within those groups it will sort based on ship groups and categories. This is the sort of thing that falls under "completely not obvious or in any way visible to the player by any sensible means" - I doubt many (if any) players could have said that is how it worked before you posted that just now. That said, if that's how it works, it seems to me that while it might work intentionally in one manner to you guys, it's certainly not working in the manner the players intend or expect it to when we click on the header to sort by icon. Which is why I'm mostly agreed w/ Casey here - we're looking at two different user requirements here, and so a toggle to turn the standings sort on/off within sort-by-icon would be nice. That said, I'd even go so far as to suggest properly splitting the two requirements from each other and add a standings column that could be used to sort in exactly the manner you describe. Don't need it to show anything, just the colortag for the entity. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar Owner, The Golden Masque
Lady Gwendolyn Antollare Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate United Interests 9	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:25:49 - [19] - Quote Casey Ambraelle wrote: Maybe make the NPC's a solid filled icon instead of kinda filled as they currently are to give more distinction between players and NPC's? EDIT: and a bigger clearer cheat sheet we can print or have as a pdf while we relearn all of them, even at expanded size the screen shot in the blog is still hard to actually see the icons. Rix Javix Icon Guide Nerfing Hisec has never fixed Losec or Nullsec
Louanne Barros Hole Violence Whole Squid 72	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:26:55 - [20] - Quote Like I predicted in the other thread, this blog post turns out to blame players for everything. Look at how insulting this section is on its own: CCP wrote: As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGÇª Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. This is what they think of the player-base apparently; easily-confused, bumbling around accidentally shooting the wrong thing. You may have us confused for.. almost any other MMO's player-base, but not EVE's? There's nothing to "adapt" to, CCP; many of us were already extremely familiar with the new icons before they were released on TQ, and are still unhappy with them. Terrible blog post. Also re: blog post grammar, that is not what 'imminent' means. Edit: Can we at least have the 'sort by icon' behavior on the overview sort things by size or some other logical order, not lexically based on the type of the entity?

Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:27:19 - [21] - Quote Quote: We are aware that a sudden and drastic update to some small but very important space symbols may have inherently vaporized several trillions of ISK from the economy. As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGÇª Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present. I loved it so much. GÖÑ Thank you CCP for hearing the community and re-evaluate the NPC and drones issue. I love the new Ship icones and i'm already used to them now, but i still have some bad feelings for some Celestial ones, like the Gate looking like a pizza piece, the Sun kinda cartoonish or the Beacon looking like a Xmas tree. :D All in all good job as always ! Can't wait this customization option ! o/
Katrina Bekers Rim Collection RC Sorry We're In Your Space Eh 245	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:31:09 - [22] - Quote Quote: Mea culpa to those affected. Who are you, and what you did to my CCP? << THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 757	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:09 - [23] - Quote Ok, so basically, CCP is going to continue pushing through the terrible icon set come what may. Fine, no surprise there, noone likes to admit that their work is shite. But i have spacial thanks to the people who did this: "" Catering to several years of feedback telling us the old bracket system, separating ships only by size categories, was not as useful as it could be"" Whoever decided that rocking the boat was good idea, you have my personal thanks from the bottom of my heart, you truly deserve it. Thank you for ruining it for the rest of us. God bless you.
Chessur Mining Industry Exile Foundation Warlords of the Deep 557	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:20 - [24] - Quote CCP all I want is to be able to order ships / ship classes by color. For example- if I could make * All recon ships appear pink * All logi Green * All interceptors red That would help IMMENSELY with my situational awareness. Give me the ability to assign colors, not just depend on this horrible symbology that is overly complicated. I need something that is quick, and intuitive. NOT something that fits inside the 'art vision'.
Cr Turist Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 52	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:23 - [25] - Quote i dont understand why we cant have a choice in reverting to the old overview. some of the new shapes and stuff for buildings and deploy-able units is ok but the ship and my god the drone symbols in space are just so cluttered.
Galmas 13. Enigma Project 202	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:32:50 - [26] - Quote please implement an option to move back to a more general icon set, like icon x for ships, icon y for drone, icon z for whatever else. for me 5-10 different icons would be totally fine and a big improvement over the icon nightmare it has been since the change... I have played quite some hours since the icon change and still i am totally lost once small scale fights kick of with fleet of like 20 vs 20 with 5-6 different classes of ships... i basically have to completely ignore the icons and solely look at the type column of the overview. The extreme granularity is a clear loss of situation awareness to me. Or the other way around my brain got too dumb after 7 or so years of actively playing and small scale fleet fighting in eve. I have red plenty of arguments for the new icon set, the in-game experience backs almost none of them.
Cr Turist Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 52	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:34:28 - [27] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Quote: We are aware that a sudden and drastic update to some small but very important space symbols may have inherently vaporized several trillions of ISK from the economy. As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGÇª Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present. I loved it so much. GÖÑ Thank you CCP for hearing the community and re-evaluate the NPC and drones issue. I love the new Ship icones and i'm already used to them now, but i still have some bad feelings for some Celestial ones, like the Gate looking like a pizza piece, the Sun kinda cartoonish or the Beacon looking like a Xmas tree. :D All in all good job as always ! Can't wait this customization option ! o/ See this guys runs level 4s and if i ran level 4s i would love these changes too but i dont i pvp and in a 500 man fight these changes dont work.
Alhira Katserna Katserna Corporation 400	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:35:31 - [28] - Quote Why not just color the NPCs red again?
Callic Veratar 678	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:36:13 - [29] - Quote I was really confused as to why the 'new' and 'improved' icons looked so blurry. They really don't work for 90%.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 287	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:36:27 - [30] - Quote CCP can you link us new icons chart of something, it would be easier to discuss which icons should be changed. "-What are you doing?" "-Docking."(...) -"It's not possible" -"No, it's necessary."

Pixie Tickle KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 26	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:37:39 - [31] - Quote I stopped at "we wanted to increase situational awareness". Thanks to your lack of logic you killed my situational awareness and I am still incapable of telling things apart. At 90% your icons are literally worthless and I do doubt it changes at 100%, which is not an option for me anyway. Please just think about this for a second, because this is what you did: - I want to increase your situational awareness by completely breaking it. - I understand the thought of improving things to make it easier to recognize symbols, but that is not what you did. You made it harder to recognize symbols, because literally every single brain of the thousands of people had the previous patterns ingrained already. It is extremely insulting to assume that you know better, because you do not. Change, for the sake of Change, is bad when you forget what was before that Change and how used people are to what they had before. Your ignorance is insulting. Whoever is responsible for the latest decision seems to have completely lost his perspective. In recent times you have started insulting players by simply kicking them in the face. You lost common sense. You see good things where there are none. This change, just like the fleet-warp-change, is completely disconnected from the people. Disconnected. You know what this tells me? You don't even play this game and you should be ashamed of yourself for daring to be above all the players. You are not. You are not smarter. You are not wiser. You force these changes onto us and you completely WRECKED the minds of several THOUSANDS of people by removing something we all have been used to. I have lost my respect for you as a company, because you completely removed us older players from considerations. You have lost my respect, because you do not even see the ** you are doing and how you will only hurt yourself while delusionally thinking you are improving something. Your ignorance is insulting. You people need to realise that you can't just over us like this. If you think you'll get away with the fleet-warp-changes like you did with the icons (and why do you even need such a blog?) then you will see that you can't keep treating us like this. I will not read through this blog any further. It reminds me of the insult from CCP Zulu back at Incarna. You can not spin yourself out of this **. You can not. You will not. We are not stupid. Stop insulting us.
Teh Replika Lazerhawks 5	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:41:09 - [32] - Quote Dear CCP. As much as i love what you are doing to keep this game alive but, A: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/ - this was just better, in terms of ship icons. B: Give us the ability to pick icon sets ourselves. C: At least give us ability to merge all drones into single icon. And finally D: please stop enforcing so much stuff. give ability to players to choose from whatever they like. Be it font style, icon set, icon group merge, target window style (the one you showed in original dev blog years ago just looked better than the one you've actually released ( the one where shield/armor/hull were up left and right bars ) ) Or just give us the option to install mods for this things if you don't want to do it yourselves. Thank You. //Rep
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 309	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:41:21 - [33] - Quote so basically CCP has just said they're not adding an opt-out switch, and they also flipped us the bird in that dev blog. wow
GeeBee Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 83	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:44:47 - [34] - Quote I said it on the neocom icons and I'll say it on this. These are small little artwork features that could / should be open for players to change, create, and utilize as they wish. If you're going to make a change on the way things have been for 10 years thats primarily cosmetic then it doesn't need to be shoved down our throats; Options are good, mandates are not.
Pixie Tickle KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 26	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:45:04 - [35] - Quote Quote: Mea culpa to those affected. Your worthless apology only makes it worse.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 757	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:45:25 - [36] - Quote Cr Turist wrote: i dont understand why we cant have a choice in reverting to the old overview. some of the new shapes and stuff for buildings and deploy-able units is ok but the ship and my god the drone symbols in space are just so cluttered. Because then 95% of the playerbase will turn off the new icon set, just like the new map, and with that statistic CCP will have justification to let go the icon design team members - for inability to deliver useful change. or at least there will be negatives in the performance reviews. And i strongly suspect that this whole project was started as a make-work thing just to keep someone busy in the first place. it was not needed, it was not asked for, and they could not even deliver, and now whoever approved it is also in the firing line. SHAME. So of course these guys are fighting tooth and nail for their jobs. Office politics, and to hell with customer satisfaction. Frankly in company where I work at, people have been fired for smaller fiascos. And there is nothing wrong with this. You deliver, or you leave.
Darkblad Hilf Dir selbst in EVE 1009	Posted - 2015.06.18 18:56:08 - [37] - Quote CCP Surge wrote: WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. Finally! Looks like the Iconocalypse was of some use. While not affected myself, the only issue I had with the new Icons was the case of 90% UI Scale EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions (EN & DE)

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 14495	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:04:22 - [38] - Quote You know what you could do... is let us design our own icons, transparent png's that we just put in a folder should be simple enough. And those that don't wish to use yours can simply (within a week or two) have 10th's or more to chose from fitting their exact needs. I'm in the category that feels that going from a handful set of icons to many is simply too overwhelming and tbh all I see are flying canister icons... The only good icon was the corpse one, that actually puts spot on what type of item it is on the overview. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 287	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:12:04 - [39] - Quote CCP Surge wrote: WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. What does it mean exactly? Would we have an option to change icons to previous versions? "-What are you doing?" "-Docking."(...) -"It's not possible" -"No, it's necessary."
Jafit McJafitson Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 493	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:12:08 - [40] - Quote I like thework done so far, and they're fine to read when you get used to them and learn them, however I don't believe they are fulfilling their stated goals as effectively as they could. Some of the stated goals in the devblog are: "Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat." "Catering to several years of feedback telling us the old bracket system, separating ships only by size categories, was not as useful as it could be." The old icons were based on size class... but so are the new ones. They don't indicate tech level or whether its a faction ship. A Sleipnir has the same icon as an Oracle, or a Tengu has the same icon as an Arbitrator. If ships with vastly different capabilities and roles are represented by the same icons, then the icons are failing to fulfill their stated goals. There wasn't much point in changing them from the old system. Here are some suggestions (in keeping with the Space Invaders theme) for how icons could be expanded to represent different tech levels.

Louanne Barros Hole Violence Whole Squid 72	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:24:42 - [41] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: CCP Surge wrote: WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. What does it mean exactly? Would we have an option to change icons to previous versions? Pretty sure they just mean they plan to add the (new) icons to this view: https://puu.sh/itSBu/acb94c0d7b.png
Louanne Barros Hole Violence Whole Squid 72	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:26:23 - [42] - Quote Jafit McJafitson wrote: If ships with vastly different capabilities and roles are represented by the same icons, then the icons are failing to fulfill their stated goals. There wasn't much point in changing them from the old system. I totally agree. It's not like Destroyers -> Interdictors or Battleships -> Black Ops represent significantly different capabilities you might want to know about or anything. The new icons don't, as you say, even meet their (quite modest) stated goals.
Ravcharas Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 414	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:27:44 - [43] - Quote Quote: Mea culpa to those affected. I don't think anyone was confused as to whose culpa this was but thanks I guess Quote: Making the icons at least usable at 90% scaling is one of our top priorities for improvement, along with others outlined below. Yeah so let me ask you a simple question; how is "must work well regardless of client UI settings" not part of the design specification from day one? How is it not in the game breaking must have-column? Instead we see a developer coming in like a perplexed wreckingball in a feedback thread with "I didn't know so many used scaling why are people doing that?" I mean for all that is good and holy how can you guys not have stats on client settings?
Aston Martin DB5 Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 66	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:34:18 - [44] - Quote Love the changes tbh. However what is currently lacking IMO is color schemes for the various new icons. I would like to change and have a custom setup to my liking. Such as changing a Federation Customs ship icon to green in space, in my overview, or both for instance.
Darkblad Hilf Dir selbst in EVE 1009	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:38:09 - [45] - Quote NPC (red and white) w/ solid fill? Looks like this EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions (EN & DE)
SamuraiJack Tritanium Industries and Technology Backseat Promises 114	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:42:38 - [46] - Quote CCPs screwups. 1) Assuming everyone uses nice big monitors and 100% scaling. Shows how out of touch they are. 2) INABILITY to change font size for char names and overview. (The screwup over font changes the FIRST time was the reason many went to 90%. CCP never revisited the font changes) - :edit: added explaination 3) REUSING OLD icons as NEW icons. Leading to confusion (Why am i being shot by mobile depots?) 4) Not publishing the new icon set in advance and in a big enough format to be readable. When your PLAYERS have to fix YOUR screwups... it makes you look like idiots. In short #icongate just proves to me that you are still as bad at handling change as you have always been. I had been hopeful of the new POS and Sov changes. I'm seriously reconsidering in the light of the UI screwup. So i will not hold my breath for those changes. (And to those of you idiots who shouting HTFU, Learn, Adapt. I leave this message... When CCP screw up YOUR section of the game and you rage. Can I have your stuff?) SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1837	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:43:53 - [47] - Quote Along with the obvious needed changes such as : Drone distinction (easy fix, put them at 33% opacity), player vs NPC distinction (plus, why FILL the NPCs instead of the players?), etc... I can't, for the life of me, get used to the wreck icons! Its TOO CONFUSING. Wrecks should NOT be even remotely close to ships shape, the only triangular stuff should be ALIVE SHIPS and NOTHING ELSE. (PS: You need to reconsider your definition of triangular for carriers... But that's another story.) Also, the cyno icon. Now, for the important bit. Icon clutter: Icon clutter occurs when there is a large amount of brackets stacked at the same location. With the new icon iteration, you've increased the "glow background" behind icons, which increases the stacking issue exponentially. Just as there is a way to use small colortags, there should be an option to remove the background and intead color the icon. So, instead of seeing a white triangle on a green background, I'd see a green triangle with a TRANSPARENT background. What happens to NPCs? Well, first, I really don't see the point in making NPC icons that look the same as players, but if a rollback isn't possible, I guess you could fill entierly the NPC background with 100% opacity red if that option is turned on, so that we easily differenciates -10.0 standings with NPCs. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Ereilian Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans 109	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:47:01 - [48] - Quote Why CCP, why can you NOT learn from your mistakes and missteps with excessive violence by the community. Why can you not understand that when you mess around with one of the core parts of the gaming experience for no other reason that you need to find make work for your art team that WE the players are going to get angry. Who in their right mind allowed this to go live, ignoring the masses of feedback from Sisi (oh look anther build on the test server, lets just IGNORE the test feedback.). How long is it going to be until you wake up and smell the roses. The new icons are a mistake, badly implemented (mainly because none of you PLAY the game anymore) and rushed out with the same blatant disregard for your customers that cause the Incarna riots. Is that what we have to do to make this issue real for you? Do we have to go to all the social media and games media and get the issue across a wider audience so that others can see what a **** up CCP is? Is that what you want CCP, do you really want to be at war with your customers and main income stream. BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE HEADING. Please reconsider, personally I do not mind a well thought out and implemented iteration of the previous icon set. It was simple, slimline and easily identifiable. The new set is not, by your own admission. On a totally seperate note, don't admit to psychological profiling of your customers. If anything that deserves a slap for each and everyone of you involved. Most of us are not 13 year old kids, we understand and react as adults. Start treating us as such or all you will be left with are the preteeners.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:50:23 - [49] - Quote Cr Turist wrote: See this guys runs level 4s and if i ran level 4s i would love these changes too but i dont i pvp and in a 500 man fight these changes dont work. You are wrong, i do PvP. This toon is my money-maker toon. I do PvP, and i do love the new icons. I do PvP, and i do have problems with drones icones being too similar with frigates. It's just a matter of habit.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1837	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:53:47 - [50] - Quote About the less important suggestions for the overview: - Inner-border glow for the next gate in the autopilot? - The ability to have multiple overview windows? Would love to have a main overview window 5 lines shorter, with a GTFO overview window always open, right below it, with only 5 lines high. - Different icons between cynos and NPC beacons? - More than five overview tabs? - A better way to change bracket settings than right clic and navigation to countless submenus? (I was thinking something along the line of three "bracket slots" pre-filled by the user. Three small square buttons on the top right corner of the overview window, with one always on. You clic on these buttons to enable the bracket profile assigned to that button instantly. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr

SamuraiJack Tritanium Industries and Technology Backseat Promises 114	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:55:11 - [51] - Quote Its ok. CCP didnt want those players anyway. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Change it to the 6months or 1yr view. Watch that slide of PCU. Even this year we have gone from breaking 40k only to barely breakign 30k on a good weekend. Thats some major slide. SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
Steven Hackett Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 186	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:57:52 - [52] - Quote Great devblog. I am however sad that it doesn't mention the POS module icons. Pre-Iconpocalypse, you could quickly see the difference between an ECM battery and a Neuting battery. Post-Iconpocalypse, they got the same icon. I feel that the decision to give several, very different, POS modules the same icon, where they had different icons before, goes directly against your design goals? How can this be?
Ruub Kers Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 8	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:58:30 - [53] - Quote Ereilian wrote: Why CCP, why can you NOT learn from your mistakes and missteps with excessive violence by the community. Why can you not understand that when you mess around with one of the core parts of the gaming experience for no other reason that you need to find make work for your art team that WE the players are going to get angry. Who in their right mind allowed this to go live, ignoring the masses of feedback from Sisi (oh look anther build on the test server, lets just IGNORE the test feedback.). How long is it going to be until you wake up and smell the roses. The new icons are a mistake, badly implemented (mainly because none of you PLAY the game anymore) and rushed out with the same blatant disregard for your customers that cause the Incarna riots. Not sure what you mean, since I really like the new icons and I think the art team did a good job. I didn't have any problems with the new icons myself and got used to them within a day. Also please keep in mind your opinion doesn't represent everyone.
Krystyn Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found 201	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:59:06 - [54] - Quote Revert to the old Icons. Can't tell squat about stuff with the new ones. I got attacked by a fleet of wrecks the other day. WTF Why did we have to change all of the icons for no good reason? Drone icons look pathetic. Did you play test this at all? Did you bother to listen to the feedback from SISI....oh wait you didn't. Could you have phased things in slowly so people could learn what things were a few at a time at least? No mass change overnight. I go from completely understanding just about everything around me to no idea what is going on. I even get it there is some sort of logical basis to the new icon set. That doesn't mean anything to the people actually playing. My corp is again dying off due to CCP killing their fun. Multiple people are unsubbing. My 6 accounts are down to 2 and will eventually drop to 1 and then maybe none.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.18 19:59:48 - [55] - Quote I can't understand how hatefull you are for a simple change of icon set. Did you lose your brain for you to not be able to adapt and change your habits ? Seriously guys, this is pathetic. I'm sad to be part of such a community that just sit with their fat belly on their static quirks.
Lexiana Del'Amore Nouvelle Rouvenor 130	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:01:03 - [56] - Quote too angry to post right now..
Styphon the Black Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union 27	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:15:09 - [57] - Quote In my opinion the change to the Sun icon was bad. Previously it was very easy to identify the sun in any system on your overview. It was a nice solid icon different from all others. The new icon just blends into all other celestials.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 758	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:24:54 - [58] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: I can't understand how hatefull you are for a simple change of icon set. Did you lose your brain for you to not be able to adapt and change your habits ? Seriously guys, this is pathetic. I'm sad to be part of such a community that just sit on their static quirks. we are hateful because CCP 1) introduces stuff 2) gets plenty of feedback 3) ignores all feedback, publishes stuff to TQ 4) gets even more negative feedback 5) ignores that too 6) flips us all a big proverbial finger we happen to pay for this stuff, and what we get is shite quality product that fails to deliver. And this happens time, after time, after time.
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels 193	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:33:59 - [59] - Quote Feedback on the new icons: When I have a blob of ships, I can tell that the thing squashed triangle is a frigate, and the arrow thing is a battleship. Destroyer/cruiser/battlecruiser however, becomes just a blob of "fat triangle", which is very hard to tell apart at a glance, in the list. When they are in a moving blob in space, telling them apart and counting, is impossible. Drone icons looking similar to player ships, makes everything much worse. Feedback on this blog: This blog is very much giving the middle finger to everyone that dosnt like your new icons. The meme is especially tasteless. I expected better from you.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 35	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:43:21 - [60] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: we are hateful because CCP 1) introduces stuff 2) gets plenty of feedback 3) ignores all feedback, publishes stuff to TQ 4) gets even more negative feedback 5) ignores that too 6) flips us all a big proverbial finger we happen to pay for this stuff, and what we get is shite quality product that fails to deliver. And this happens time, after time, after time. This very DevBlog proves that they are NOT at all ignoring feedbacks. If your feedback is : "I don't like new icones, please change back to old ones, or at least give us an option to turn the old one on". Then i'm glad they don't listen to this.

LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 760	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:44:51 - [61] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: If your feedback is : "I don't like new icones, please change back to old ones, or at least give us an option to turn the old one on". Then i'm glad they don't listen to this. It wasn't. it was a wall of technical analysis 2-3 pages long.
Casey Ambraelle EVE University Ivy League 13	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:48:16 - [62] - Quote Lady Gwendolyn Antollare wrote: Casey Ambraelle wrote: Maybe make the NPC's a solid filled icon instead of kinda filled as they currently are to give more distinction between players and NPC's? EDIT: and a bigger clearer cheat sheet we can print or have as a pdf while we relearn all of them, even at expanded size the screen shot in the blog is still hard to actually see the icons. Rix Javix Icon Guide Yes! Thank You!
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3658	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:52:26 - [63] - Quote So you're listening again? Then I will say again that "yellow" icons are too faint and difficult to tell from "white" icons. In matters of tiny objects, I don't need them to be "huh, a tiny wee bit yellow" but OH MY GOD IT'S FULL OF YELLOW!! 73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2015.06.18 20:58:30 - [64] - Quote Quote: Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present. - CCP Surge -I do not like the new icons and want the option to revert back to the old ones. This quote feels like a half-hearted apology that the dev team didn't test the new icons for the a scaling issues that are happening, nor listen for any player feedback about them. Rather they just pushed out the update without thinking. Now with so much negative feed back on it they issue a half-hearted apology with a big "F. YOU! If you don't like it or agree with us." Tacked on the end of it.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.18 21:02:00 - [65] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: It wasn't. it was a wall of technical analysis 2-3 pages long. Link ? Jessica Serrato wrote: Now with so much negative feed back on it they issue a half-hearted apology with a big "F. YOU! If you don't like it or agree with us." Tacked on the end of it. So much ? We only hear the ones complaining, the ones satisfied won't come to shout out their joy. Sadly.
Freelancer117 so you want to be a Hero 287	Posted - 2015.06.18 21:03:10 - [66] - Quote Quote: Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat. Yeah rigth, If CCP was really fond of this than the distinction between icons would be based on agression state of the ship and it's owner. So an player that has a GCC timer would have a big red cross instead of a white diamand for example, and for npc's other icons based on agression state would be needed. This way only half a dozen new icons should be learned not dozen as is at the moment. You really messed up the UI and also convoluted instead of streamlined the new player experience here, this is a bad call CCP Regards, a Freelancer The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans. http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.18 21:15:11 - [67] - Quote I think that the main issue comes from the fact that icones are now true icones, when they were only squares before. It was easier to tell if one line on Overview was a ship or a celestial / structure. Before = an wide box / square. After = true icone structure-like / celestial-like. To ease the awareness would be to color the white icones to something more visible, like the standings we give to pilots. Like CCP colors the line for autopilot destination for instance, if it's possibly in yellow, it should be possible in any other color. I used to leave neutrals completly blank for my Overview, i must admit that i had to turn "show neutral" for them to appear greyish so i can ease my recognition from celestials /structures. This opens some customisations, like giving players more color option to set their standings.
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.06.18 21:18:37 - [68] - Quote Quote: So much ? We only hear the ones complaining, the ones satisfied won't come to shout out their joy. Sadly . I would be thrilled if they would have come out with the option to set the icons yourself and keep the old as a default, somewhat like overview customization. They don't however, they put out a pile of junk and then tell us to deal with it. I have seen several dev blogs done correctly and given a ton of praise because they are well thought out and well tested, but this junk looks like something that was in the beginning of development, put on the back burner due to lack of interest, then shoved into the expansion at the last minute to say they did something. Poor planning, poor playtesting, and poor development.
Malachir Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.06.18 21:48:25 - [69] - Quote Dear CCP, As a player having a second attempt at playing with EVE, I have to say that the improvement in icons leaves much to be desired. Whilst primarily a miner, I have been making moves to get into a more combat oriented role. However, since the change of icons, this has been put on hold due to identification and clutter issues. I did have a long post in at this point, but I realised it was turning into a bit of a rant, but you already have many of them, so I decided to retry. Whilst I understand that the management want to bring a new look to EVE, surely you want to have one that reflects the scope and awesomeness that this game is capable of, such as the background that surrounds this forum post. Instead, what you have done is to take a smart, futuristic looking user interface and proceeded to remove colour, style and then useabilty from it. Perhaps you could answer the simple question - Does anyone involved in the user interface revamp actually play the game in Tranquility? Perhaps they are too busy trolling the forums to do so. I await a devblog comment that treats the various concerns of many players, be they vocal or a silent majority, with the realisation that they care about this game, and want only the best for it. Yours, Thoughtful of Amarr.
Dino Zavr Shadow Owls 17	Posted - 2015.06.18 21:50:17 - [70] - Quote Dear CCP Developers, The devblog is really insulting and very immature. Whatever big the idea is, yet it absolutely does not work as intended. Hundreds of players had already offered their constructive feedback and offered dozens of suggestions and options for your review. Grown up people might negotiate and find a compromise solution, like enabling the old set of icons while refining the new one, or allow players to load their custom sets. Unfortunately, your devblog does not offer any compromise to ease tension. That's sad. From my humble perception, you have convinced yourself the job is done well and trying to convince us, players that the new GÇ£fancyGÇ¥ icons are great. However that is not much easy, because, unlike you, we do play EVE Online. And we are trying to help you to make game better. The blind denial of all the alternatives normally leads to nowhere. Technically speaking: the size of the overview sprite is to small to accommodate hundred easily distinguishable different glyphs, so it is possible to return to minimalistic concept or increase sprite size (which is not always a good option, because of the laptop 1366x768 fixed screens where even 90% UI scale seems to be too large). Overview strongly needs way more foreground and background colors. The ability to immediately distinguish between neutral player and neutral NPC is crucial. Please, stop behaving like a capricious child. Good or bad, the new icons are still the issue, causing a massive protest. It's time to look for compromise to make players satisfied, instead of trolling like a kids. Thanks.

beakerax Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 161	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:03:58 - [71] - Quote Louanne Barros wrote: This is what they think of the player-base apparently; easily-confused, bumbling around accidentally shooting the wrong thing. Agreed. Implying that icons are causing players to bumble around and shoot the wrong thing is highly insulting to our game-playing abilities. CCP we are perfectly capable of shooting the wrong thing with or without your icons, thank you very much.
Yourmoney Mywallet Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation 458	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:05:40 - [72] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: And i strongly suspect that this whole project was started as a make-work thing just to keep someone busy in the first place. it was not needed, it was not asked for, and they could not even deliver, and now whoever approved it is also in the firing line. SHAME. So of course these guys are fighting tooth and nail for their jobs. Office politics, and to hell with customer satisfaction. This sounds scarily plausible tbh. Edit: post above me gave me a good chuckle!
Raist DB Anglo American Exploration AddictClan 0	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:19:06 - [73] - Quote With many many players not liking the new icons, why do you shove them down their throats? At least give them the option to choose between new and old icons! Apparently CCP likes pissin off the players. In general it may be that people dont like change, but how would you like it if the sky were no longer blue? Personally, I like that the new NPC icons appear brighter, but this also makes them look similar to the rest... on my screen anyway. Maybe they are too bright... or maybe its the fact that they have thinner lines than the older ones. The older ones were simpler which made them more easily distinguishable at a glance. Sometimes CCP tries to fix what is not broken and in doing so breaks it. Focus on the things that are actually broken maybe??? But at the very least, when you mess with the sky... at least give the players the option to keep it blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 540	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:23:55 - [74] - Quote Some refinement is in order - make them more "contrasting", i.e. sharper and more varied angular shapes. Some of them feels very uninformative & blob-like - the industrial section for example. Frigate to Destroyer, and Cruiser through to Battleship difference doesn't appear to be enough, since a single chevron can be lost in the sea of targets. Use hexagons at the very least! I think the limiting factor is the height of the Overview entry line, because they do feel cramped from an artistic & functionality perspective. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Maksmad Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:30:04 - [75] - Quote I do not like new icons, especially npc and pc ships icons... After 9 years in eve.... it is, at least for me, very very hard to adjust. I look at overview and I just do not see info I was used to... very confusing... Few friends of mine left the game (not only because of this, but this was the last drop...). I tried to adjust, but I see myself logging in every few days now... I would say, leave every icon except ships icons as it is now, and return old icons for ships or at least give us an option to switch to the old ships icons. I do not care about structure icons... PVP overview at least 90% of the time has only gates and stations anyhow... I am sure ccp that you noticed drop in playtime and accounts subscribed since icon change. My 4 accounts will cease soon if you do not change this. If you do not care than... /shrug. I could not care less. Best,
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 411	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:46:07 - [76] - Quote It's really simple. Option for old Icons at least until the new ones are workable. 80 pages of feedback in the other thread. Really. Damn. Simple. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Louanne Barros Hole Violence Whole Squid 74	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:47:08 - [77] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: It wasn't. it was a wall of technical analysis 2-3 pages long. Link ? Here is 'v1' of it, there is another summary a few pages later in the thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5795826#post5795826
Natya Mebelle Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 194	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:48:12 - [78] - Quote Edit: I was about to go search for this post of mine that Louanne Barros linked snickers So I just finished reading the devblog, finished reading the new posts in the other topic, and all comments here. I'm thrown completely off balance by the ridiculousness that goes on on the side of CCP, and of some people trying to defend the wrong cause. Dear CCP, I thought you were crossing the t's and dotting the i's ? Nothing what you wrote in this devblog required any amount of effort to pull together. Still it took you more than half a week? Where are the promised explanations that have not yet been heard? I don't read anything new. Where are the promised explanations HOW to fix things? I don't read anything new. Everything in this devblog was known to you since the icons were introduced to the testserver. May I politely ask you, what was your intention to accomplish with this devblog, if it is nothing but regurgitating the known? Now, since I have to go to bed, I only have time to mark out one thing, so it will be: Cleanse Serce wrote: This very DevBlog proves that they are NOT at all ignoring feedbacks. If your feedback is : "I don't like new icones, please change back to old ones, or at least give us an option to turn the old one on". Then i'm glad they don't listen to this. You are reading a different devblog than I do. Then again, I have not see you post a SINGLE time in the other topic. All 90 pages of it. You have clearly missed the detailed feedback objective feedback that was forwarded to CCP. You have also clearly missed the amount of feedback on the sisi topic regarding the icons. You also pretty much ignore the positive things FROM the same people who heavily criticized the new icon set. And you... well. It seems you're not actually understanding a single thing about this entire fiasco? If I knew CCP would be so dense about the feedback on the new icons, I would have spoken up there as constructive as I did in the other topic. But something tells me this would not have changed a thing anyhow. Oh and... can I report CCP Surge for insulting other players? Because that is exactly what he did in that devblog. Sarcasm is one thing. Fueling the fire intentionally and willingly, is another.
John WarpingSlow Aliastra Gallente Federation 81	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:48:50 - [79] - Quote Ereilian wrote: Who in their right mind allowed this to go live, ignoring the masses of feedback from Sisi (oh look anther build on the test server, lets just IGNORE the test feedback.). That responsibility would fall onto the shoulders of CCP Seagull, promoted to the position of Executive Producer in July of 2014. Y'know, looking at her posting history, that begs another question: Why hasn't she posted on these official forums since May 16, 2014?
PAPULA Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 41	Posted - 2015.06.18 22:51:45 - [80] - Quote Your only option is to bring old icons back. Plain and simple.

GankYou Redshield Holding Company 544	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:13:18 - [81] - Quote http://www.fontscape.com/pictures/fontfont/Dingbats2BasicForms.gif One doesn't have to limit oneself to chevrons and upward direction, CCP. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Senarian Tyme Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found 98	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:22:48 - [82] - Quote I was happily surprised to see the devblog be posted today, as I figured CCP would just post it as they ran out the door Fri. ...then I read the devblog. I have since adjusted my recommendation for how to redress the situation If you really want to make amends you need to: 1. Swallow your pride (reinsert after each following step) 2. Formally reprimand CCP Surge for intentionally further antagonizing the player base <- New 3. Admit the idea was well intended but horribly implemented. 4. Admit you were wrong to ignore test server feedback. 5. Admit you were wrong to force a knowingly broken (ie defective) product onto paying customers. 6. Admit you were wrong to ignore feedback after the release. 7. Admit you were wrong to be so slow in any form of response even after you finally realized there was an issue. 8. Admit you are wrong to try to continue to force us down this path with a long and drawn out incremental minor fix and twitch approach. 9. And to prove you are sincere: Refund players for the broken time they got tricked into funding for your failed and knowingly broken beta test (i.e. the # of days from the time accounts were canceled until the accounts finally expired. or at the very least give them that many days back onto their accounts after you eventually fix this issue.) Seriously if this is the best CCP can muster after this long, ...words fail me.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:32:06 - [83] - Quote Natya Mebelle wrote: You are reading a different devblog than I do. Then again, I have not see you post a SINGLE time in the other topic. All 90 pages of it. You have clearly missed the detailed feedback objective feedback that was forwarded to CCP. You have also clearly missed the amount of feedback on the sisi topic regarding the icons. You also pretty much ignore the positive things FROM the same people who heavily criticized the new icon set. And you... well. It seems you're not actually understanding a single thing about this entire fiasco? I've read your feedback post, and i'm agree with some part of it. I was just talking to people that don't want to improve the actual icone set but to come back in time. CCP won't go back, deal with it. New icones are great, they just need improvements. And as somebody suggested to CCP to "Swallow their pride", I suggest you swallow yours. (yours = all of the haters, not just you Natya Mebelle) Some people here are just way too aggressiv and it's not pushing the Devs to do anything to make haters' life better at all. Make suggestions. Be constructive. Stay polite. And if the Devs won't answer, just repeat.
Dangeresque Too Pistols for Pandas 210	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:35:10 - [84] - Quote Thanks for again not admitting failure on your original design or the terribad implementation plan... Quote: This began with the most high-level separations, for which we assigned a basic shape profile: Ships (Triangular) - Can move, are manmade. Structures (Rectangular) - Are immobile, are manmade. Celestial Bodies (Circular) - Are immobile (technically speaking), were birthed in the big bang. Except you didn't really stick to the fundamentals of this concept. There are numerous examples of icons that bridge at least 2 of these shapes at the same time, Cruisers for example, are half triangle, half square. The new stargate is just a slightly rounded square. POCOs are structures but have a diamond shape, carriers also have a diamond shape, as do some arrays too. Quote: Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat. This is not done by making icons more complicated with more information. The definition of a good icon set is simplicity. Quote: A clearer system for identifying different objects in space. To use your very example against you, a Curse is of greater concern than an Osprey, they represent wholly different tactical scenarios, yet both had the same icon under the new system. Now I'm not asking for even more granularity, but if your reason for increasing the number of icons that need to be committed to memory was due to tactical differences, you failed miserably. Again, clearer systems generally evolve around being more simple, not more complex. Keep It Simple. Quote: Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS. And what are the real numbers for ISIS utilization? I personally don't know anyone that has opened it more than once, if at all. Last time I tried to use it I had to close/minimize EVERY other window I had open in game in order to be able to see everything that was remotely close to an edge. You always cite note needing to change stuff because only a minority of the playerbase is affected, how about in this case? Quote: Catering to several years of feedback telling us the old bracket system, separating ships only by size categories, was not as useful as it could be. Instead we now have 5 separate frigate hull icons, 12 different container icons, and how many icons that used to be something else? You still have VERY close ties between a Cruiser and a Dread, the only functional difference being the couple of pixels sticking off the bottom. And what was wrong with the old Stargate icon? It was 100x better than the scrunched/squarish pacman. Actually, pretty much half the icons could be substituted into a handful of old atari games and nobody would know the difference... The new icons can very nearly all be closely matched up with easily recognizable items from pacman, space invaders, and even mario (industrial ships look like mushrooms etc). Hire a real icon designer and not one of your artists who doesn't actively play Eve. You also didn't admit that the implemtation and rollout of the new icons was a bad plan. Disregarding feedback and adding hundreds of new icons into the game (duplicating several but with a new/different function). They should have been changed/released in small iterations to each sub-group of icons over time. Thats like someone taking every single program/shortcut on your PC and renaming them and changing the icon/color, all at the same time, and then expecting you to not suffer any loss of productivity and not need a cheat-sheet. There are still several things that were never answered: 1) Capsule icon, why change it to be a worse looking version than before? 2) Why do we need 5 frigate icons? 3) Why do we need 12 container icons? 4) Why do we need 8 drone icons (which is much better than the first attempt of 27)? Just these couple of items in the old system only had 3 icons to remember, but now they have 25! Since I'm not being paid to do your work and you out right ignored and disregarded ALL of the feedback we gave your for months I'm not doing it anymore, you can figure it out or have to fire more staff when this quarters subscription count drops significantly. You don't listen to players, maybe you will listen to your wallet.
BoodaBooda Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 275	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:41:59 - [85] - Quote Make player ships dashed lines, but keep the same shapes. Just like the old ship brackets. https://twitter.com/MaxAbsorbency
PAPULA Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 43	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:48:14 - [86] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: CCP won't go back, deal with it. Then i will not come back to game anymore, deal with it, and no you can't have my stuff, let it dust in stations.
Dangeresque Too Pistols for Pandas 211	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:55:43 - [87] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Some people here are just way too aggressiv and it's not pushing the Devs to do anything to make haters' life better at all. Make suggestions. Be constructive. Stay polite. And if the Devs won't answer, just repeat. Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong?
Dangeresque Too Pistols for Pandas 213	Posted - 2015.06.18 23:58:25 - [88] - Quote PAPULA wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: CCP won't go back, deal with it. Then i will not come back to game anymore, deal with it, and no you can't have my stuff, let it dust in stations. Yuppers, 3 accounts here that aren't renewing and expire within a month... and I'm keeping my hundreds of billions to make quite a dust bunny farm as well, maybe eventually I'll have dust dragons... Maybe we can coordinate stations so our dust farms can hang out?
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:01:04 - [89] - Quote Dangeresque Too wrote: Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong? Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play. Who are you to even make the statement that your work worth more than theirs ? Seriously. Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are **, you should do this, that and this." They've come with a product of a reflexion and time, and you just think that whatever work you did is better ? What the **. Wake up spoiled kids. Wake the hell up.
Advenat Bedala Facehoof Out of Sight. 2	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:03:10 - [90] - Quote CPP if you want to see me still playing DO NOT FORCE ME TO USE OLD ICONS!!! also to make icons better 1) filled/empty icons is a bad idea to divide players and NPC. This is nearly invisible and stops you from using internal space of icons. 2) internal space of icons can be used for colormarks. This will solve problem with too many drone icons and will allow to mark different classes of ships. And of course this must be customizable. 3) give them ability to use old icons. I want to use their learning disability aganist them.

PAPULA Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 43	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:06:27 - [91] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They do stuff that is not important at all and confuses people. Old icons were perfect and there was no need for new icons, but hey they have to do something because they're payed to do something, even if it means doing stuff that is not important at all just so they can say hey look we did something. But yea new icons look terrible and people don't like it, but still they will ignore all the feedback and say we did something.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 732	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:06:56 - [92] - Quote Advenat Bedala wrote: 2) internal space of icons can be used for colormarks. This will solve problem with too many drone icons and will allow to mark different classes of ships. And of course this must be customizable. Colour in today's EVE UI, ya think? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=393625&p=4 Old Neocom vs New Neocom - http://i.imgur.com/04VVcpJ.png Why? We'll never know. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:12:26 - [93] - Quote PAPULA wrote: They do stuff that is not important at all and confuses people. Old icons were perfect and there was no need for new icons, but hey they have to do something because they're payed to do something, even if it means doing stuff that is not important at all just so they can say hey look we did something. But yea new icons look terrible and people don't like it, but still they will ignore all the feedback and say we did something. The only thing that confuses ME for now is the lack of adaptability of some people. This is truely pathetic. And sad to be honest. Tell me that the new icones are not scaling right, that they are to simlar to one another, that they are small, too big, too thick, i would listen to your argument. Tell me that the new icones are useless, ugly, wierd, not the shape i would want, i wouldn't listen to them, and i would ignore them. See the subtle difference ? Or just like you can't adapt, you can't understand ?
PAPULA Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 45	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:14:34 - [94] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: The only thing that confuses ME for now is the lack of adaptability of some people. Yea, and npc looks almost the same as a player, very adaptable.
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 478	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:15:34 - [95] - Quote CCP Phantom wrote: With the Carnyx release on June 2nd we got a set of competely new icons in space and in the overview. Such a large change naturally has raised the attention of many players and we have received a lot of feedback raising questions and pointing to some issues (for example with UI scaling and difficulties differentiating between NPCs and players). Please read the blog Feedback on the new Overview Brackets by CCP Surge to learn more about the design and goals behind those new icons and the road ahead! As always, your constructive feedback is most welcome and helpful. Thank you! Basically the blog is a big fu to the players. Here, eat our halfassed shitsandwhich and maybe someday we will get around to fixing it. And if you have trouble seeing the icons, differentiating this tiny squiggle from that tiny line, well thats you the player's fault, because you "know" you just cant adapt. Its simply ccp just give us a switch so that those that want the old classic icons can have them. Then we can get back to playing while you can get back to wondering why your subscription numbers and online concurrent users keep dropping. Maybe, just maybe its because you dont listen to player feedback and you keep putting out half finished nonsense where you are more likely to break stuff that worked rather then fix the stuff that was broken. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:17:27 - [96] - Quote PAPULA wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: The only thing that confuses ME for now is the lack of adaptability of some people. Yea, and npc looks almost the same as a player, very adaptable. That is one better argument Sir, congratulation. I'm aggree with this, the inside filled should have more opacity. Anyhow, who the fruck even has NPCs displayed on his Overview ?
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 478	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:24:45 - [97] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Dangeresque Too wrote: Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong? Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play. Who are you to even make the statement that your work worth more than theirs ? Seriously. Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are **, you should do this, that and this." They've come with a product of a reflexion and time, and you just think that whatever work you did is better ? You truely believe that whith all what they came up with, they will just come back and redo the icones ? What the **. Wake up spoiled kids. Wake the hell up. Improving the current icones : yes. Goin back in time, or completly re-do the icones : nope. Im sorry but the current icons cant be improved. Icons by their very nature are supposed to be useful at a glance. Any decent icon system, is simple by design. To avoid information overload, you want a limited number of icons that only convey important information. CCP has decided to slap icons on everything and in their wisdom have decided to make it so that they are tiny and all basically similar to each other. The important information is lost is a sea of clutter. On the other hand, the old icons worked almost perfectly, giving you the exact information you needed to fly well - relative ship size, whether the ship was friend/foe, and npc or player. And get off your fanboi highhorse. CCP screwed the pooch on this one. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Talaris EveningStar The Torchwood Institute 17	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:27:33 - [98] - Quote After reading CCP Surge's devblog on the new UI Icons, you've totally won me over. Oh wait.. No you haven't. Actually, I kinda hate myself for renewing now. While I'm not against changing UI elements, I am against the terrible, half-assed artistic work put into these. If I wanted to play an 8-bit arcade game, I'd go pull out the old Nintendo.. They're still crap, no matter how many excuses you make for them.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 776	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:31:23 - [99] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: PAPULA wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: The only thing that confuses ME for now is the lack of adaptability of some people. Yea, and npc looks almost the same as a player, very adaptable. That is one better argument Sir, congratulation. I'm aggree with this, the inside filled should have more opacity. Anyhow, who the fruck even has NPCs displayed on his Overview ? Everyone, for one reason or another. You dont want to run into a gate with 5 drifters on it. You dont want to gas and miss sleepers spawning. And you, good sir, should stop posting and embarrassing yourself further. Go re-read the linked technical analysis, looks like you havent picked up anything from it.
Dangeresque Too Pistols for Pandas 217	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:31:34 - [100] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: And i strongly suspect that this whole project was started as a make-work thing just to keep someone busy in the first place. it was not needed, it was not asked for, and they could not even deliver, and now whoever approved it is also in the firing line. SHAME. So of course these guys are fighting tooth and nail for their jobs. Office politics, and to hell with customer satisfaction. Frankly in company where I work at, people have been fired for smaller fiascos. And there is nothing wrong with this. You deliver, or you leave. Pretty much this, but it would be nice if CCP came out and said that it wasn't just to keep the artists busy doing something because they couldn't do development work on the many core game issues that have needed so much love for so many years already. Jafit McJafitson wrote: The old icons were based on size class... but so are the new ones. They don't indicate tech level or whether its a faction ship. A Sleipnir has the same icon as an Oracle, or a Tengu has the same icon as an Arbitrator. If ships with vastly different capabilities and roles are represented by the same icons, then the icons are failing to fulfill their stated goals. There wasn't much point in changing them from the old system. Precisely, but don't let that be taken as a suggestion to add even more complexity and variance to the icons, as that is exactly the opposite of what an icon should be. Less is more. Its not that I hate the new icons enough to finally quit, its that CCP's handling of this, and quite a few prior, changes. The straw that broke the camel's back. Every time they 'say' they've learned from disregarding players, they just come out and prove 1 or 2 patches down the line that they really didn't. The guy that posted the hard numbers from dotlan or where ever it was needs to do another pull so all the non-believers who think CCP isn't killing this game can finally understand.

GankYou Redshield Holding Company 547	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:32:22 - [101] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Dangeresque Too wrote: Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong? Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play. Who are you to even make the statement that your work worth more than theirs ? Seriously. Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are **, you should do this, that and this." They've come with a product of a reflexion and time, and you just think that whatever work you did is better ? You truely believe that whith all what they came up with, they will just come back and redo the icones ? What the *. Wake up spoiled kids. Wake the hell up. Improving the current icones : yes. Goin back in time, or completly re-do the icones : nope. I'm not quite sure why you're so triggered by this. While insults can never be excused, the amount of feedback that went out during the testing phase, and subsequently ignored plus this blog can & does blow off lids for the right reasons. The premise for the system is logically valid, but what if the chosen concept style is not? ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]*
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:36:15 - [102] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Im sorry but the current icons cant be improved. Icons by their very nature are supposed to be useful at a glance. Any decent icon system, is simple by design. To avoid information overload, you want a limited number of icons that only convey important information. CCP has decided to slap icons on everything and in their wisdom have decided to make it so that they are tiny and all basically similar to each other. The important information is lost is a sea of clutter. On the other hand, the old icons worked almost perfectly, giving you the exact information you needed to fly well - relative ship size, whether the ship was friend/foe, and npc or player. And get off your fanboi highhorse. CCP screwed the pooch on this one. Don't be sorry, i am for you. Explain why the icones are not giving a clear info to you as they do to me ? And actually i have more information than before. I can see AT A GLANCE if i'm dealing with a frig or a dessy, a Cruiser or a BC or a BS. The only issue i see is what they are talkin about in this very DevBlog : - drones / frigates distinction - NPCs / Players distinction - Scaling Improvements could be : - add colors just like Gates or Station with Autopilot. - same as above but to the whole line, not only the icone. - re-place the standing / corp / alliance / etc icones - true RGB picker to set customed standings (condition to color like Autopilot) - separate the shape from the filled interior - and why not add colors to the shape and/or interior - just like the new icone set for UI and the glowing thing, put some on overview to enhance the "Technological" sensation like Altrue mentioned earlier : http://i.gyazo.com/5f3de8af2f98bbf6c6b02af7916943ff.png - The Above could stand as a background option for Overview settings to standing / states etc..etc..etc..
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:37:41 - [103] - Quote GankYou wrote: The premise for the system is logically valid, but what if the chosen concept style is not? Because each and every individual would have his own "valid concept style" ?
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 547	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:43:56 - [104] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: GankYou wrote: The premise for the system is logically valid, but what if the chosen concept style is not? Because each and every individual would have his own "valid concept style" ? That is not the case. There are only so many angles you can have in a geometric shape - how you employ this fact is upto the artist, of course. http://www.fontscape.com/pictures/fontfont/Dingbats2BasicForms.gif - Anything from this three-lined basic set would be ten times more informative than the chevron model. They could have chosed to make frigates & destroyers Upward Triangles, cruisers a rhombus icon and battlecruisers & battleships Downward Triangles. You know, like the public Men & Women bathroom signs. I don't see the eternal Hex-, or Pentagon in there, either. The best approach would have been to first select the best-possible shapes for the spaceships, since we encounter and deal with them more than with anything else, and seeing as our very lives depend on that, and then devise some chevrons for the miscellanea. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Dangeresque Too Pistols for Pandas 218	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:44:59 - [105] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play. Yeah, because spending 3 hours after I get home from work patching sisi, organizing and documenting new icon changes and how they interact with each other. As well as running them through a gambit of use case scenarios and putting those scenarios together for the sole purpose of testing a new feature and providing objective feedback sure sounds and awful lot like playing and having fun to me... esp repeat that a couple times a week and every other weekend. Cleanse Serce wrote: Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are ****, you should do this, that and this." lol, I never did say that, I said they were poorly implemented and needed major improvements based on countless suggestions myself and many others offered through the various iterations of the feedback threads, which were completely ignored. Please stop being a CCP fanboy and start being a positive contributor.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 776	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:46:23 - [106] - Quote Is there a way to mod this shite somehow? Where do they keep the file for icons and in what format? EULA be damned, maybe i can rip the file open and physically change the pixels to normal icons..
Ripblade Falconpunch Centurion Logistics 198	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:50:12 - [107] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Dangeresque Too wrote: Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong? Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play. Who are you to even make the statement that your work worth more than theirs ? Seriously. Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are **, you should do this, that and this." They've come with a product of a reflexion and time, and you just think that whatever work you did is better ? You truely believe that whith all what they came up with, they will just come back and redo the icones ? What the **. Wake up spoiled kids. Wake the hell up. Improving the current icones : yes. Goin back in time, or completly re-do the icones : nope. All I saw was terrible spelling and a whole lot of white stuff - but I can't tell if it's a knight, or just salt. Probably both. And FYI - here in the real world, just because someone gets paid to do something, doesn't mean the end product is fantastic or even palatable. Even at CCP, shockingly - Incarna would like a word with you.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:52:21 - [108] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Everyone, for one reason or another. You dont want to run into a gate with 5 drifters on it. You dont want to gas and miss sleepers spawning. And you, good sir, should stop posting and embarrassing yourself further. Go re-read the linked technical analysis, looks like you havent picked up anything from it. Ok so RED ICONES are not different enough for you to distinguish from an EMPTY SHAPE. Yeah, i should stop embarassing myself, clearly. I thought you were talkin about Concord and Navy icones not Missions or Encounter NPCs, this is even more laughable.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 776	Posted - 2015.06.19 00:55:07 - [109] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Everyone, for one reason or another. You dont want to run into a gate with 5 drifters on it. You dont want to gas and miss sleepers spawning. And you, good sir, should stop posting and embarrassing yourself further. Go re-read the linked technical analysis, looks like you havent picked up anything from it. Ok so RED ICONES are not different enough for you to distinguish from an EMPTY SHAPE. Yeah, i should stop embarassing myself, clearly. I thought you were talkin about Concord and Navy icones not Missions or Encounter NPCs, this is even more laughable. OK, go laugh somewhere else then, preferably while working on your spelling, while the grownups who understand the gravity of the fiasco try to grapple with the consequences.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 552	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:02:14 - [110] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/RYBmrkG.png - Two minutes in Paint. Now you may add chevrons to distinguish between Frigs & Destroyers, and Cruisers & BCs. You can even have so much detail as to denote tech, or even sub-class level like Recon ships. All else is of little relevance, until the issue of combat spaceship icons is resolved. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]

Ripblade Falconpunch Centurion Logistics 204	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:18:22 - [111] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Everyone, for one reason or another. You dont want to run into a gate with 5 drifters on it. You dont want to gas and miss sleepers spawning. And you, good sir, should stop posting and embarrassing yourself further. Go re-read the linked technical analysis, looks like you havent picked up anything from it. Ok so RED ICONES are not different enough for you to distinguish from an EMPTY SHAPE. Yeah, i should stop embarassing myself, clearly. I thought you were talkin about Concord and Navy icones not Missions or Encounter NPCs, this is even more laughable. Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: All I saw was terrible spelling and a whole lot of white stuff - but I can't tell if it's a knight, or just salt. Probably both. And FYI - here in the real world, just because someone gets paid to do something, doesn't mean the end product is fantastic or even palatable. Even at CCP, shockingly - Incarna would like a word with you. I'm sorry i'm not a english born speaker, and my english sometimes can be terrible to read. But thank god this language is not hard to be readable with. You're right, just because someone gets paid doesn't mean his work is fantastic. And i never said it was. And i was waiting for the whole Incarna thing. Every now and then, when you're pissed with a change from CCP, you throw that right on their face. Like some kind of threat. Yep, tipical kid behaviour. Sometimes they need it thrown in their faces - like when they start in with the mass disregard of their players. You can fanboi all you want, and keep telling the rest of us how nice the view is from way up there on your high horse. When you finally put your visor up, you'll see us down here shooting statues.
beakerax Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 162	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:19:50 - [112] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Where do they keep the file for icons and in what format? If you want to take a closer look at the amazing new high-definition PNG icons (maybe to admire them) (and not for any nefarious awful reason like modifying the client) (I can't condone that) you should be able to find the hexadecimal filenames belonging to each icon in the shared cache by searching for "/ui/texture/shared/brackets" in resfileindex.txt .
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 483	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:20:02 - [113] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Im sorry but the current icons cant be improved. Icons by their very nature are supposed to be useful at a glance. Any decent icon system, is simple by design. To avoid information overload, you want a limited number of icons that only convey important information. CCP has decided to slap icons on everything and in their wisdom have decided to make it so that they are tiny and all basically similar to each other. The important information is lost is a sea of clutter. On the other hand, the old icons worked almost perfectly, giving you the exact information you needed to fly well - relative ship size, whether the ship was friend/foe, and npc or player. And get off your fanboi highhorse. CCP screwed the pooch on this one. Don't be sorry, i am for you. Explain why the icones are not giving a clear info to you as they do to me ? And actually i have more information than before. I can see AT A GLANCE if i'm dealing with a frig or a dessy, a Cruiser or a BC or a BS. The only issue i see is what they are talkin about in this very DevBlog : - drones / frigates distinction - NPCs / Players distinction - Scaling Improvements could be : - add colors just like Gates or Station with Autopilot. - same as above but to the whole line, not only the icone. - re-place the standing / corp / alliance / etc icones - true RGB picker to set customed standings (condition to color like Autopilot) - separate the shape from the filled interior - and why not add colors to the shape and/or interior - just like the new icone set for UI and the glowing thing, put some on overview to enhance the "Technological" sensation like Altrue mentioned earlier : http://i.gyazo.com/5f3de8af2f98bbf6c6b02af7916943ff.png - The Above could stand as a background option for Overview settings to standing / states etc..etc..etc.. maybe your eyes are better then mine. maybe you have a dev sized monitor. But before this change I could tell a frig from a dessy at a glance. How you say? Well I have something called the type column. Apparently you couldnt figure out how to use it. Now I got a big blob of color on the screen which everything obscures everything else. Undocking in Jita is awful. Combat is even worse. God forbid drones are used `because then all that is visible is a swirling mass. The new sun icon is a prime example of how screwed up the new icons are. In the old days it was easy to tell what was the sun because it was a bright solid circle. Now its a small vague open circle with rays, but the sun is so small that the rays are barely visible, so the sun basically looks like every other open circle, e.g. the planets. So we lost an easy to see simple icon for the sun in favor of a much fancier icon that looks nice but is substantially less useful. And of course the list goes on. For instance, we got some ships being squashed half circles and others being slightly smaller squashed half circles, how are you supposed to tell them apart at a glance. In short, while the icons may work for you, your clearly in a minority. CCP should just give a switch so those that want to use the icons can and while those who dont can go back to playing the game. Then after the switch you and those one or two other guys can have great fun playing with your new icons and patting ccp on the back for another great improvement. I bet you thought captain quarters and industry teams were just neato cool too. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:22:45 - [114] - Quote Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: You can fanboi all you want, and keep telling the rest of us how nice the view is from way up there on your high horse. When you finally put your visor up, you'll see us down here shooting statues. For icone set ? I strongly doubt it. I'm still waiting haters shooting statues from jump fatigue changes.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 554	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:25:17 - [115] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: I'm still waiting haters shooting statues... No need to be mean in dire times like these. It could approach a situation when there's no one left to do so. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Ripblade Falconpunch Centurion Logistics 204	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:26:16 - [116] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: You can fanboi all you want, and keep telling the rest of us how nice the view is from way up there on your high horse. When you finally put your visor up, you'll see us down here shooting statues. For icone set ? I strongly doubt it. I'm still waiting haters shooting statues from jump fatigue changes. Then you're obviously a bit slow if you think it's still all about the icons at this point.
beakerax Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 163	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:40:06 - [117] - Quote GankYou wrote: No need to be mean in dire times like these. It could approach a situation when there's no one left to do so. First they came for the ship spinners, and I did not shoot the statue because I was not a ship spinnerGÇª
Langbaobao Tr0pa de elite. Pandemic Legion 52	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:53:27 - [118] - Quote TBH I find the new icons annoying and a needless over complication of something that was working ok, however I doubt you will listen to those who are asking for a return to old icons, either directly or via a button that can toggle between old and new icons. However tbh the biggest annoyance for me is the fact that I can't differentiate at a glance between rats on a gate and actual player ships in space. Before it was simple: crosses are NPCs, squares are players, ergo you point them and shoot them. Now I have to fight with the gazillion of different icons which I struggle distinguishing between NPC and players. So far it hasn't brought about a ship loss but one of these days it will for sure. I will not mention drone icons which are also annoying. There are so many different drone icons that it becomes impossible to distinguish them at a glance from ships. This s really annoying. I dunno, maybe reducing icon size for drones would reduce this annoyance, but tbh the simplest solution would be to have only one type of icon for all drones like we had before. Before you knew, x=drone and not some ship. I can judge easily what type of drones are in space by how fast they move (or not move), I don't really need 10 different icons for all the different types of drones. Alltogether I would say the biggest complaint I have is that it's not easy to distinguish between ships (the really important thing) and NPCs+drones at a glance and this is highly frustrating. I know you guys went into this with the best intentions, but unfortunately I have to say that you've brought about an unnecessary complexity in the icon system. I don't blame you, I blame one well known blogger who advocated this change and fueled the hype. He probably infected you with the hype at the last fanfest (I remember seeing him there) and you said, why not? Still, there's no point crying over spoiled milk. Knowing how CCP functions, I doubt we can really go back that easily. This is a big change to the UI and such big changes are difficult to revert. We will probably have to end up living with it but you could at least reduce the complexity of the new system and hopefully we'll adapt with time. Granted, I'd love if there could be a toggle that allowed me to turn back to square brackets for player ships but I am not holding my breath. Would be nice if I was wrong...
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 556	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:56:00 - [119] - Quote beakerax wrote: GankYou wrote: No need to be mean in dire times like these. It could approach a situation when there's no one left to do so. First they came for the ship spinners, and I did not shoot the statue because I was not a ship spinnerGÇª Although, there was no statue-shooting because of Phoebe due to the fact that it needed to happen, as batphone had become the cause for waning player activity numbers by that time, in my opinion. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 782	Posted - 2015.06.19 01:56:13 - [120] - Quote Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: You can fanboi all you want, and keep telling the rest of us how nice the view is from way up there on your high horse. When you finally put your visor up, you'll see us down here shooting statues. For icone set ? I strongly doubt it. I'm still waiting haters shooting statues from jump fatigue changes. Then you're obviously a bit slow if you think it's still all about the icons at this point. Hes not slow, hes just a troll, he gets off this. It was explained to him back on page 3 what this is about. Just ignore him, maybe he will go away into general discussion and sperg there.

Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 02:11:57 - [121] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Hes not slow, hes just a troll, he gets off this. It was explained to him back on page 3 what this is about. Just ignore him, maybe he will go away into general discussion and sperg there. I've read the post you were talking about, and i'm agree with some part of it. Though, i can't be agree with people that wants CCP to go back in time and stop their changes to the game just because people can't adapt, or just because people are "used to" what they had. That's not a valid argument. I can read my overview and in space brackets better than before. Why can I, and why can't you ? I do love new ship icone set, but i still have some issue with some structure and celestial ones, i'll deal with it, and i know i'll get used to them. As long as CCP desn't sell icone sets for each indiviual preferances on New Eden Store, i still can't see the real "gravity of the fiasco" as you call it. And no i won't go somewhere else to laugh. And neither will I go away and stop telling that i do love those icones and that they need improvements. I won't let the minority shouting louder then their number represent.
The Hunter Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2015.06.19 02:27:14 - [122] - Quote At what point will ccp ever allow us to vote on something that they do. This is not talking about nerfing ships, or changing how the sov could be used. This is more about the meat of the game like icons and other stuff. We have csm candidates who can not appeal any of these changes, so were left to some all powerful ccp guys making changes because they want to freshen up the games looks. CCP could be fixing other problems that have been around in eve for a long time. Maybe this is like highschool, we get to vote on our favorite person to be csm, but in the end it does not change anything because the teachers will do what they want. Just put it to a 3 day vote and see how many people like the change. IF the people do not like the change, then all mightly ccp can try and fix the problem that was created for no reason.
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 13	Posted - 2015.06.19 02:28:03 - [123] - Quote Quote: Cleanse Serce wrote: Dangeresque Too wrote: Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong? Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play. Who are you to even make the statement that your work worth more than theirs ? Seriously. Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are **, you should do this, that and this." They've come with a product of a reflexion and time, and you just think that whatever work you did is better ? You truely believe that whith all what they came up with, they will just come back and redo the icones ? What the **. Wake up spoiled kids. Wake the hell up. Improving the current icones : yes. Goin back in time, or completly re-do the icones : nope. Well, number 1 and most importantly is that we are the consumer. If you place a product out that your consumer doesn't like than they are not going to pay for it. They get paid by the money that we pay to play the game....so your whole first part of your argument is invalid. Number 2...I am in aerospace simulation. I repair and modify 30 million dollar full flight motion simulator that are used to train licensed pilot that need to maintain their certifications with FAA, EASA, and a ton of other regulatory aerospace agencies. In doing so the consumer pays a large amount of cash each year to train with us. In this company we take any and all customer feedback very seriously, and not just on the simulator part of training. We listen to every aspect of their visit and adjust ourselves to fit to the consumers desires. It is that level of customer satisfaction that has allowed us to pull in revenue of over 1 billion yearly. I think that CCP really needs to start stepping up their game when it comes to consumer relationship and customer satisfaction. They need to listen to us and come up with a good icon system that is usable, functional, and customizable to a player's preference. Any feedback is good starting point for this. From " I don't like this for XYZ reasons" to the simple "I hate the new UI". This should have been done in the testing phase and they didn't listen. It be like a TV producer making a pilot, then the panel members majority hate it, so he signs the show for a 6 season run....then wondering why no one watches. Not sure why you are fighting so hard to defend something that others don't like, but that is your choice, but it is my choice to disagree and ask for something else. ..we are both paying customers.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 02:41:59 - [124] - Quote Jessica Serrato wrote: Well, number 1 and most importantly is that we are the consumer. If you place a product out that your consumer doesn't like than they are not going to pay for it. They get paid by the money that we pay to play the game....so your whole first part of your argument is invalid. Number 2...I am in aerospace simulation. I repair and modify 30 million dollar full flight motion simulator that are used to train licensed pilot that need to maintain their certifications with FAA, EASA, and a ton of other regulatory aerospace agencies. In doing so the consumer pays a large amount of cash each year to train with us. In this company we take any and all customer feedback very seriously, and not just on the simulator part of training. We listen to every aspect of their visit and adjust ourselves to fit to the consumers desires. It is that level of customer satisfaction that has allowed us to pull in revenue of over 1 billion yearly. I think that CCP really needs to start stepping up their game when it comes to consumer relationship and customer satisfaction. They need to listen to us and come up with a good icon system that is usable, functional, and customizable to a player's preference. Any feedback is good starting point for this. From " I don't like this for XYZ reasons" to the simple "I hate the new UI". This should have been done in the testing phase and they didn't listen. It be like a TV producer making a pilot, then the panel members majority hate it, so he signs the show for a 6 season run....then wondering why no one watches. Not sure why you are fighting so hard to defend something that others don't like, but that is your choice, but it is my choice to disagree and ask for something else. ..we are both paying customers. 1. Do you have any statistics about the pourcentage of satisfied player and un-satisfied players about that change ? No you don't. Neither do I. Invalid. 2. I strongly doubt that you take each and every feedback as a starting point to improve your simulator. You can't possibly compare an Online game which is maint to entertain to a Professional simulator based on real physical laws. One is more subjective than the other. Invalid. __ I'm agree CCP needs to listen to feedback, and they're doin so more than ever before. This very Blog is the proof. I don't feel like i'm fighting at all, i just want to show other players that there are players that do frucking love those new icone set. As I said earlier, the noisiest people are not necessarily more numerous . Until you bring something to prove otherwise anyway.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 785	Posted - 2015.06.19 02:45:24 - [125] - Quote Jessica Serrato wrote: Not sure why you are fighting so hard to defend something that others don't like, but that is your choice, but it is my choice to disagree and ask for something else. ..we are both paying customers. I have a sneaky suspicion hes got skin in the game. No kills, so sits in station since 2012. If scammer then he is simply trolling here for lols, otherwise, a dormant alt of CCP dev, defending himself anonymously? No respect in either case.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 36	Posted - 2015.06.19 02:53:20 - [126] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: I have a sneaky suspicion hes got skin in the game. No kills, so sits in station since 2012. If scammer then he is simply trolling here for lols, otherwise, a dormant alt of CCP dev, defending himself anonymously? No respect in either case. EDIT - eve who says char has been recycled. scammer or ganker, then. recycling for ganks is a bannable offence, btw... Do I need to be "someone" to have any right at all to post my point of view in this DevBlog ? Do you have such poor arguments that you need to attack the human begin behind the screen instead of his ideas ? Keep going, you're getting more and more interesting.
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 487	Posted - 2015.06.19 02:55:15 - [127] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: You can fanboi all you want, and keep telling the rest of us how nice the view is from way up there on your high horse. When you finally put your visor up, you'll see us down here shooting statues. For icone set ? I strongly doubt it. I'm still waiting haters shooting statues from jump fatigue changes. Its prime time US now and only 18k on. IMO people aren't shooting the monuments, they just not logging in anymore. And with CCP putting out blogs that border on being insulting to their customers, its no wonder people are voting with their feet. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Bad Bobby Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust 867	Posted - 2015.06.19 03:02:53 - [128] - Quote Some important items were not covered in this Dev Blog: Why aren't you giving us comprehensive configuration options so that the community can provide the players with the UI they want and need? Why are you releasing unfinished work to the live server even after being clearly informed in your own feedback threads that your work is unfinished? Why, if you absolutely must release unfinished work to the live server, are you not releasing it as beta/optional feature?
Ripblade Falconpunch Centurion Logistics 211	Posted - 2015.06.19 03:04:50 - [129] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: I have a sneaky suspicion hes got skin in the game. No kills, so sits in station since 2012. If scammer then he is simply trolling here for lols, otherwise, a dormant alt of CCP dev, defending himself anonymously? No respect in either case. EDIT - eve who says char has been recycled. scammer or ganker, then. recycling for ganks is a bannable offence, btw... Do I need to be "someone" to have any right at all to post my point of view in this DevBlog ? Do you have such poor arguments that you need to attack the human begin behind the screen instead of his ideas ? Keep going, you're getting more and more interesting. Like you did several times, throwing around names and calling people children? You're not even a good troll. 0/10.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 38	Posted - 2015.06.19 03:07:42 - [130] - Quote Ripblade Falconpunch wrote: Like you did several times, throwing around names and calling people children? You're not even a good troll. 0/10. It was your behaviour that i was attacking not the persons. sigh I'll stop there anyway. That's a lost cause with you both.

Death Godess Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 14	Posted - 2015.06.19 03:15:26 - [131] - Quote Can we get a Printer Friendly version of the new icons key? That blue-grey/white image is terrible for printing......
SamuraiJack Tritanium Industries and Technology Backseat Promises 126	Posted - 2015.06.19 04:24:39 - [132] - Quote Rixx Javix Icon sheet Hint CCP. When players are producing fixes to your screwups... Maybe you should take a better look at your stuff? SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 785	Posted - 2015.06.19 04:28:43 - [133] - Quote SamuraiJack wrote: Rixx Javix Icon sheet Hint CCP. When players are producing fixes to your screwups... Maybe you should take a better look at your stuff? Has that EVER happened?
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 172	Posted - 2015.06.19 04:32:59 - [134] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: 1. Do you have any statistics about the pourcentage of satisfied player and un-satisfied players about that change ? No you don't. Neither do I. Well. You could have had it. If the forum engine wasn't a pile of poo and supported questionnaries. But since the forum engine is a pile of poo, you have to use some outside tools. The story of CCP life, more or less. There is, for example, a questionnary on the eve-ru.com (the de-facto main RU forum on EVE online, because it does not suck. Both feature and moderation wise). There's a link to it in the previous thread. It shows roughly 60% dissatisfied with the new icons, 8% unaligned and the rest positive.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 38	Posted - 2015.06.19 04:57:58 - [135] - Quote Torgeir Hekard wrote: Well. You could have had it. If the forum engine wasn't a pile of poo and supported questionnaries. But since the forum engine is a pile of poo, you have to use some outside tools. The story of CCP life, more or less. There is, for example, a questionnary on the eve-ru.com (the de-facto main RU forum on EVE online, because it does not suck. Both feature and moderation wise). There's a link to it in the previous thread. It shows roughly 60% dissatisfied with the new icons, 8% unaligned and the rest positive. And i'm well aware that this russian forum you call eve-ru.com is representative of 100% of Russian-speaking players in Eve Online. And therefore if 60% of the Russian-speaking people are "disstatisfied" then 60% of the whole Eve Online players are also "dissatisfied". Invalid. Try again.
Blackadder V Class D In Space Weyr Syndicate 1	Posted - 2015.06.19 05:16:19 - [136] - Quote Whoever designed these icons have not only failed in the objectives of making the overview clearer, they have actually succeeded in making the icons irrelevant for purposes of recognition. Thankfully I am not a combat player or these icons would have cost me a number of ships. The original version wasn't perfect and maybe could have done with a tweak but I now have absolutely no understanding of what these icons represent unless I take the time to read the narrative and constant exposure to them is not improving matters. What is needed is a SIMPLE recognition system that will tell you at a glance if you are looking at a combat ship or a care bear ship and it should be of sufficient size and density that you do not need to use a magnifying glass. Items such as asteroids can afford to have a small icon, but containers, tractors, mobile depots and drones need a clear ID for a fast retrieval. Meanwhile, please restore the original since this offering is beyond salvage and needs a professional designer to correct something that largely speaking didn't need fixing. K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid!) and if there is a demand that requires 3 million icons to ID ship functions then use a secondary icon or letter of the alphabet/numeral that's big and clear enough to read.
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 15	Posted - 2015.06.19 05:16:30 - [137] - Quote Quote: 1. Do you have any statistics about the pourcentage of satisfied player and un-satisfied players about that change ? No you don't. Neither do I. Invalid. 2. I strongly doubt that you take each and every feedback as a starting point to improve your simulator. There must have some feedback that are technically impossible to do. You can't possibly compare an Online game which is maint to entertain to a Professional simulator based on real physical laws. One is more subjective than the other. Invalid. __ I'm agree CCP needs to listen to feedback, and they're doin so more than ever before. This very Blog is the proof. I don't feel like i'm fighting at all, i just want to show other players that there are players that do frucking love those new icone set. As I said earlier, the noisiest people are not necessarily more numerous . Until you bring something to prove otherwise anyway. No I don't have the numbers, but I am giving feedback of the majority of the post here, I cannot count the "Silent Masses" that praise the new icon. If they even exist. Yes we do take every feedback about the simulator seriously. However most of the consumers are well aware of the physical limitations, but our services are not just limited to the simulators. We ask about the classroom training, how they were treated by scheduling staff, how the like the hotels that we recommend, the layout and presentation of the training materials, etc. We had a consumer that complained that there was no lemon juice for his tea. Our Center Manager went out and bought packets, we have carried them ever since. If, as you said, there is feedback that we get that is impossible....whether it is technically impossible or due to safety concerns we still address it with the customers. We state the reasons that it is not possible and look to a compromise with the customer. Generally even just the willingness to try shows good faith with the customer. Now as you are trying to make compare our service to this situation, I don't see your viewpoint. CCP is not limited by anything in this situation. They had a working product, they changed it, not everyone is liking the product. CCP opened a feedback forum for the changes, to see how they are being received. Most of the feedback is negative, but even in getting the negative feedback they are getting viable information as to a compromise that will help in remaking the changes more acceptable. Then they make a new dev blog that, in my and several others posting members, have found to not only ignore our request, but tell us in a nice way to "deal with it". You don't have to be a marketing major to come to a reasonable outcome that this type of reply by CCP isn't going to stop the complaints, but make then even more "noisy". As far as me comparing Eve Online game to a real life simulator.....well there are a lot of things to compare, too numerous to list. The bottom line is that this is a Space-Based Sandbox Simulation game. While that statement implies that real world physics cannot always be used, a reasonable amount is. We both want the customer to have an experience that mimics a possible real world environment. A lot of Eve keeps true to that aspect CCP has held true to this experience. PoS and Jump Drives use fuel, Trading/Marketing has taxes, Guns take ammo, Refining Ore loses minerals, RISK=REWARD, etc. However, this is not the basis of my feedback. It has to do more with keeping the customer happy than anything else, which I think CCP would be wise to heed. CCP is striving to increase their new member base. I think at one time they numbers were 1 in 10 or so. Meaning 1 out of every 10 people that played the game after a trial period continued to play. Again I don't have the numbers but tossing out a general example. So if you are only retaining a very small percent of new customers, then go and start increasing the loss ratio of your regular customers, then you are not going to have to worry about development of new content as there won't be any around to play that content to sustain your company. 999 in every 1000 start up companies fail within 1 year. Out of that 1/1000 less then 10 last to see a decade. If you ask those companies that exceed that mark, how they survived where so many failed, the answer, 9/10 times, is going to be along the lines of adapting their business to match the needs/desires of their consumers.
E6o5 Tyler Durden Demolitions 333	Posted - 2015.06.19 05:31:58 - [138] - Quote I don't know where the idea for the need of new icons came from. But lets assume there were some players asking for it (and not some manager who doesn't play the game decided we need something new). It is also obvious with this thread that there are players who want to keep the old icons. So if you really see the need for new icons to satisfy those assumed players asking for it the only valid option would have been to implement a system that supports different set of icon. Any claims that your code base and/or architecture don't support that are lame excuses and need to be addressed by you before breaking a well working feature for large parts of the player base.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 172	Posted - 2015.06.19 05:39:48 - [139] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: And i'm well aware that this russian forum you call eve-ru.com is representative of 100% of Russian-speaking players in Eve Online. Nope. There's no resource that is 100% representative of 100% russian-speaking players. Not even CCP mail surveys, because they are in english. It is, however, the most representative resource among the existing ones (around 750 votes now, which is not bad considering typical sociological population surveys usually get around 1000 votes). And the only one that's actually bothered with a proper survey. One thing is certain, though. It's definitely more representative than guys screaming "I LIKE IT SO EVERYBODY MUST LIKE IT YOU HAVE NO PROOFS!!111!11!"
Ida Aurlien Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor 42	Posted - 2015.06.19 05:40:13 - [140] - Quote wow 95 pages and they give us this crap as a reason....http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback/?_ga=1.183309925.2134134325.1394639977 ahh what part of the customers did you listen to ?? surely you can read and comprehension is better than a 3rd grader ??? what part of we do not like your changes did you not understand ?? just trying to understand why ignorance seams to run your company ???

Sbrodor Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation 123	Posted - 2015.06.19 05:44:40 - [141] - Quote totally ignoring color-blind accessibility to this game. summer 2015 : ccp don't allow color blind people to play a computer game. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=428198
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 38	Posted - 2015.06.19 06:12:40 - [142] - Quote Jessica Serrato wrote: [...] Like in RL, unstatisfied people are more likely to manifest their anger than satified people. As simple as that. The little thing you can do in your job to satified one important consumer as a scale of one per a 1000 when it comes to Eve Online is not working at all. If you have over 40k customers at your job then i'm wrong. Imagine you had even only 1 thousand customers, with every individual having a specific favorit tea flavor, would you satisfied those 1 000 every single different flavours ? Pardon me, but i strongly doubt that. You're explaining that a society should explain if any issues occure that technicly (even though in my argument 'technical' was just an example among many other impossible faisable demands) and i'm agree 100%, that's what CCP had done with this DevBlog, and previous ones. I recommend you to re-watch that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OD2kKIKqm0 Specially for those who are claiming it's been months CCP had not listened to any feedbacks. That's just a lie. In this new DevBlog CCP is not ignoring your feedbacks. On the contrary it expose 4 points they will work on and change. Just think about that they are working on the core of the new set-up and might go further later on, it could impliy many other possibilities that could respond to many of the actual "serious" feedback. Really you just can't compare a Simulator Enterprise that in a certain way is responsible of people's life by the therefore imposed quality of its product teaching people how to ACTUALLY fly with a Video-Game which is VERY far from a Space Ship Simulator. Elite Dangerous for instance is way closer to that than Eve Online, but still far away from a true RL flight simulation. I can admit that a simulation of a "space-life" is occuring in Eve Online, but i can't see the point with Ship icones. :x Ship icone changes won't jeopardise people's life, nore would it endanger CCP wealth as Incarna did at that time. And if the issue of all this is that you feel that CCP is not responding to feedback more than the Icone shape, that's just not true. I admit though, that they might have wait before releasing this whole new set up to really make it 100% viable (that scale thing for instance is unprofessional i admit). I am also as a player frustrated in some way to see changes asked by the community coming months, years after ; while this new realease calendar is supposed to counter that fact. Though, you keep saying that satisfying customers is the key for a company to survive, but no one here except CCP it self knows how many people are satisfied or not with this. And what if those changes would attract more people to the game ? Same thing here, nor me, nor you, nor CCP it self knows that. Once again, i must insist that i'm agree with some feedbacks left here and there, but i won't never understand how, my-self is reading the Overview better now than before, and other people can't. I'm not smarter than any people down here. So where's the issue ? I think there're no real issue, just adaptability skills, or effort, to be less "mean"/"haughty"
Rivr Luzade Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi 1524	Posted - 2015.06.19 06:21:25 - [143] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: I admit though, that they might have wait before releasing this whole new set up to really make it 100% viable (that scale thing for instance is unprofessional i admit). But not at all! What are you saying?! This is CCP's new quality standard for releasing things: Does it work well enough? Yes? Release it as a full feature. (Industry, new map, scanning, icons, ... Sov? (this would be fun. ) No? There is no no. Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 172	Posted - 2015.06.19 06:33:04 - [144] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Man, ... you are comparing a sociological population survey that usually picks RANDOMLY ~1000 people among a whole country inhabitants with a SPECIFIC language forum which has its regular threaders and its own community among the Russian-speaking community, among the Eve Online community.... News at eleven. It's a survey about user experience in EVE online. So you conduct it between EVE online players, not between random street passerbys. Cleanse Serce wrote: It just doesn't work to represent any kind of true unsatisfied number when it comes to the whole Eve Online player base. At all. Well, nobody else even tried to attempt to get at least some numbers. All you guys do is chant the "you are the vocal minority" mantra. Get a more representative survey then. Unfortunately it's not exactly possible unless you are CCP. Since there's no common place where enough EVE players gather.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 38	Posted - 2015.06.19 06:39:25 - [145] - Quote Torgeir Hekard wrote: Well, nobody else even tried to attempt to get at least some numbers. All you guys do is chant the "you are the vocal minority" mantra. Get a more representative survey then. Unfortunately it's not exactly possible unless you are CCP. Since there's no common place where enough EVE players gather. Precisely. Though, as i mentioned earlier like others, people are more likely to call customer support to say they have a trouble than to call for cheering up the company. A banker will always call a client when his account reaches -XX.XX, but never ever when it's positiv.
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 15	Posted - 2015.06.19 06:40:53 - [146] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: [quote=Jessica Serrato][...] Well at least we agree on some things, but I for one am really tired of having to put up with half finished content, same thing happened regardless of the length between patches.... BTW, rough customer count is around 20000 customers from 154 different countries training at 30 different locations, but that includes the mechanics and flight attendances that we train as well. We also provide 10 different selections of tea (honey, milk, lemon juice), 15 different selections of coffee (sugar, 4 different artificial sweeteners), doughnuts, bagels (peanut butter, butter and few jelly flavors), 7 different fruit/energy bars, 3 types of juice, ice cream, fresh fruit (apples, oranges and bananas), Cup O' Noodles and a in house popcorn machine for free....not to mention the standard Coke/Pepsi and vending machines hehe. Customers love our snack bar.....so do I, lol.
Lisa Gentilette The Scope Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2015.06.19 06:53:58 - [147] - Quote Probably said but I'm so disappointed: this was NOT the dev blog I was looking for. You TOTALLY IGNORED the complaints by those with a visual handicap. Being it colour blindness or bad eye sight. And then this is downright condescending and insulting to your loyal customers: CCP wrote: As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGÇª Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. It's good to read that you feel this is all a big fat joke to you. I can only respond to this in one way, 2 accounts down, this one to follow.
SupaSpliff Don't wanna pay Tax 0	Posted - 2015.06.19 06:56:29 - [148] - Quote I hate the blog post more than the new icons. How can you be so condescending to the players who pay your wages? Brought me close to unsub my characters, not quite there yet, but very on the fence atm.
Barsetka Mef Northen Tactical Academy 6	Posted - 2015.06.19 07:01:21 - [149] - Quote I want to ask simple question: why is new starmap still in beta phase (It has been introduced 6 months ago!) and add as alternative stuff, while CCP's incredible flight of imagination with brackets has come on TQ at once?
Marcus Gord Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 81755	Posted - 2015.06.19 07:07:58 - [150] - Quote Pretty sure the only thing I use icons for is to tell if a wreck is empty or not. I have a type column to tell what I'm shooting at. If there was another way to tell an empty wreck from a full one, I'd probably remove icons from overview entirely. In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness. http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png

Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 2240	Posted - 2015.06.19 07:44:07 - [151] - Quote Excellent devblog explanation. I like this change. I do want to see 90% fixed for my laptop, though. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 289	Posted - 2015.06.19 07:45:04 - [152] - Quote Spend some time with new icons. I'm not colorblind so I don't have problem to tell NPC/player. Maybe put a cross inside the NPC icons? Overall: 1) ship icons are great improvement for me, I can finally tell without reading a name which sansha is frig/dessie 2) drones - will take some time to learn which is which, but could be bigger 3) basic structures - big no for new gates icon, can this arrow pierce the circle, it will look less pacman? Also warp gate icon don't need those horizontal dashes, just make those double arrow bigger 4) celestials ok 5) npc sentries - ok , but at first I can't tell if they are different or is it the same icon 6) containers - do we need so many types of containers in space? 7) deployables - ok 8) POS - ok 9) POS batteries - too small imo to tell the difference between them, maybe make them rectangle (verticaly) with larger type effect 10) outpost - ok 11) sovereignty - ok 12) factional warfare - too small, at first looks like container 13) generic - what to add? 14) big fat no to wreck icons, No No No. NO. Wrecks look really bad when they are all over overview. Can we have ships icons turned 90 degree instead? smaller version of them? Beacon looks silly. I can adapt to it but it won't looks less silly that way. "-What are you doing?" "-Docking."(...) -"It's not possible" -"No, it's necessary."
Cpt Buckshot Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.06.19 08:07:13 - [153] - Quote Dear CCP ..l.. Basically CCP sucks on this new expansion they are a bunch of idiots. personally Id of rather pay for expansions with this type of garage, so I do not have to buy or install it, like other companies do. Seems to me that most the people who actually like the New Icons are newbie pilots and ccp employees go figure ! Id of fired the lot of you whose idea this was, terrible planning. Do any of the people whose idea this actually play Eve? Please change the POS shield too its been 3 months and it is time for new one. Maybe you can change the icons that many times ?
Darkblad Hilf Dir selbst in EVE 1009	Posted - 2015.06.19 09:11:44 - [154] - Quote Barsetka Mef wrote: I want to ask simple question: why is new starmap still in beta phase (It has been introduced 6 months ago!) and add as alternative stuff, while CCP's incredible flight of imagination with brackets has come on TQ at once? Pretty obvious: Map: Many features that (still) require polish/bug fixing and such. Brackets: Basically only cosmetic with no code that changed. EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions (EN & DE)
Lexiana Del'Amore Nouvelle Rouvenor 135	Posted - 2015.06.19 09:19:55 - [155] - Quote Wow...first time a dev blog has told me to go Foxtrot Unicorn Charlie Kilo myself...
Dun'Gal Myriad Contractors Inc. 257	Posted - 2015.06.19 09:23:06 - [156] - Quote You know what would be extremely helpful? Adding the old "bracket" outlines around the new ones for player ships - would make them immediately distinguishable from the rest, and would be something everyone is already used to AND allow you to keep your "chevrons, and houses."
Flaming Shadow Dark Fenix Rising 1	Posted - 2015.06.19 09:59:16 - [157] - Quote The idea on the base of the new icon system is good and it does the job but i now have some problem identify "on the fly" combat ships from overview: atm i just get overwhelmed by wall of "little houses", some higher than others... only ones that can still quickly be spotted are frigates/destroyers for all the others i need to look at em for 1-2 sec more... and in combat it's a lot of time! just took a quick pic Overview pic the problem to quickly spot ships type comes between cruiser/bc and BS (at least for me).... i'd suggest to make differentiate icons even using the width: the bigger the ship class the wider the icon is. Even changing the angle of the triangle's pinnacle and increase thickness of icon's trait can help. other little thing for npc the fill should be more consistent my 2 cents
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels 203	Posted - 2015.06.19 10:01:02 - [158] - Quote Jessica Serrato wrote: Quote: Cleanse Serce wrote: Dangeresque Too wrote: Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong? Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play. Who are you to even make the statement that your work worth more than theirs ? Seriously. Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are **, you should do this, that and this." They've come with a product of a reflexion and time, and you just think that whatever work you did is better ? You truely believe that whith all what they came up with, they will just come back and redo the icones ? What the **. Wake up spoiled kids. Wake the hell up. Improving the current icones : yes. Goin back in time, or completly re-do the icones : nope. Well, number 1 and most importantly is that we are the consumer. If you place a product out that your consumer doesn't like than they are not going to pay for it. They get paid by the money that we pay to play the game....so your whole first part of your argument is invalid. Number 2...I am in aerospace simulation. I repair and modify 30 million dollar full flight motion simulator that are used to train licensed pilot that need to maintain their certifications with FAA, EASA, and a ton of other regulatory aerospace agencies. In doing so the consumer pays a large amount of cash each year to train with us. In this company we take any and all customer feedback very seriously, and not just on the simulator part of training. We listen to every aspect of their visit and adjust ourselves to fit to the consumers desires. It is that level of customer satisfaction that has allowed us to pull in revenue of over 1 billion yearly. I think that CCP really needs to start stepping up their game when it comes to consumer relationship and customer satisfaction. They need to listen to us and come up with a good icon system that is usable, functional, and customizable to a player's preference. Any feedback is good starting point for this. From " I don't like this for XYZ reasons" to the simple "I hate the new UI". This should have been done in the testing phase and they didn't listen. It be like a TV producer making a pilot, then the panel members majority hate it, so he signs the show for a 6 season run....then wondering why no one watches. Not sure why you are fighting so hard to defend something that others don't like, but that is your choice, but it is my choice to disagree and ask for something else. ..we are both paying customers. Very good post, and underlines well the reason this blog post makes me so angry. I will adapt to stupid icons, I wont quit over that. I can forgive stupid designs like a monochrome neocom that confuses me to this day, I wont quit over that. CCP ignoring all patch feedback, AND all the test server feedback, pushing this unfinished mess anyway, and then making a blog post like THIS? This blog post essentially gives a big middle finger to anyone that dosnt like their changes? THAT makes me seriously think about quitting, and already has me checking out what CCP's competition is doing. Seriously CCP I expected better from you.
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 2831	Posted - 2015.06.19 10:14:48 - [159] - Quote OK, a couple of things 1) yeah I am still pushing for the colourblind solution to be looked at. (as are other CSMs) b) No, I am not pushing for a button to make it like it was iii) Yes, drones need to look more distinct and less like other things four) yes I am old and squint a lot at the screen, especially when tired. The yellow and white sometimes blur together, the text font always needs to be larger, the damn calculator is almost impossible to read (needs bigger numbers and spacing on each trio of digits so 10 mill is distinctive from 100 mill) damn wandered off topic 00000101) the nice thing about CSM is that you have large fleet FC's small gang folks, high low and null represented. People who shoot PvE and PvP. We have been playing with it as well. We are still giving feedback and some of us are still listening to you. oh one phrase did make me laugh. The idea that the art department or devs might be bored and need to be given 'make work' tasks. honestly, I will be timing the telling of that to when some devs are sipping beers because I am evil and love watching people try to keep ale from coming out of their noses. m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Jeven HouseBenyo Baron and Serpent Productions 152	Posted - 2015.06.19 10:42:58 - [160] - Quote Looks like four accounts of stuff get to collect virtual dust in stations. Finally, some response to a CSM Member, too little too late, where were you on the Sisi Feedback Tread, the General Feedback threadnaught? If you have such amazing computer graphic artists in your stable, CCP, why was our 'Frag off!' crying guy so graphically inept? At least insult your player base in 1080p slick and shiny. Gonna miss a bunch of people that have become buddies over the last year & 2 months. I won't stay to play any game that causes physical pain from a graphic change what also comes with no check box to use old set until new might pass the view test. And I certainly won't toss money into the budget of a company who's customer service and interaction reads like that blog. Fly safe. >Jeven Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times. Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter. It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online! Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it. WTB moar wingy bits!

Steijn Quay Industries 826	Posted - 2015.06.19 10:43:45 - [161] - Quote CCP Phantom wrote: With the Carnyx release on June 2nd we got a set of competely new icons in space and in the overview. Such a large change naturally has raised the attention of many players and we have received a lot of feedback raising questions and pointing to some issues (for example with UI scaling and difficulties differentiating between NPCs and players). Please read the blog Feedback on the new Overview Brackets by CCP Surge to learn more about the design and goals behind those new icons and the road ahead! As always, your constructive feedback is most welcome and helpful. Thank you! Whats the ETA for these changes? I dont mean in exact terms, but are we talking 1 week? 2 weeks? 1 month? 2 months? Xmas?
Steijn Quay Industries 826	Posted - 2015.06.19 10:47:15 - [162] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: oh one phrase did make me laugh. The idea that the art department or devs might be bored and need to be given 'make work' tasks. Plenty of firms 'generate' work for idle hands if they know those hands will be needed in the short term future. Im not saying thats whats happened, but you would be a fool to believe that it doesnt occur in business.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 38	Posted - 2015.06.19 10:54:33 - [163] - Quote Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: Finally, some response to a CSM Member, too little too late, where were you on the Sisi Feedback Tread, the General Feedback threadnaught? If 100 pages of Feedback for Carnyx is a Threadnught, i'm wondering how you would qualify 400 pages long thread for jump fatigue chages ?
Rasta Wullie Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.06.19 11:38:33 - [164] - Quote I hate it , worst idea yet
Lucas Quaan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 95	Posted - 2015.06.19 11:42:59 - [165] - Quote With the other icons becoming more complex too, wrecks and drones are way to cluttered at the moment. Please tone them down and make them easier to separate from ships.
Baali Tekitsu AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 792	Posted - 2015.06.19 11:44:51 - [166] - Quote I havent adapted to it yet and probably never will, Im not sure who you asked that adapted to this change, it certainly was nobody I play with. My biggest complaint is that all brackets have the same size now, from light drone through pod to battleahip, making it incredibly difficult to distinguish ships from drones. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
MaverickScot Unidentified Flying Saucer 65	Posted - 2015.06.19 12:00:28 - [167] - Quote Having read BRACKET ICON MADNESS - FEEDBACK ON THE NEW OVERVIEW BRACKETS" I do not see anything relating to feed back about having an option go roll back. There is plenty about new icons and changes to the future icons to improve them but a lot of feed back I read was negative and related to having the option of old or new. Do you intend to offer feed back to those people too? Even a simple we are not going back would do. I still don't like the new icons. Mav.
Steijn Quay Industries 826	Posted - 2015.06.19 12:04:24 - [168] - Quote MaverickScot wrote: Having read BRACKET ICON MADNESS - FEEDBACK ON THE NEW OVERVIEW BRACKETS" I do not see anything relating to feed back about having an option go roll back. There is plenty about new icons and changes to the future icons to improve them but a lot of feed back I read was negative and related to having the option of old or new. Do you intend to offer feed back to those people too? Even a simple we are not going back would do. I still don't like the new icons. Mav. CCP Claymore wrote: Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure? The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM. i asked in the issues thread and got the above in reply.
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels 204	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:00:27 - [169] - Quote Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: Looks like four accounts of stuff get to collect virtual dust in stations. Finally, some response to a CSM Member, too little too late, where were you on the Sisi Feedback Tread, the General Feedback threadnaught? If you have such amazing computer graphic artists in your stable, CCP, why was our 'Frag off!' crying guy so graphically inept? At least insult your player base in 1080p slick and shiny. Gonna miss a bunch of people that have become buddies over the last year & 2 months. I won't stay to play any game that causes physical pain from a graphic change that also comes with no check box to use old set until new might pass the view test. And I certainly won't toss money into the budget of a company who's customer service and interaction reads like that blog. Fly safe. >Jeven Have seen a lot of people mess this up, dont lose friends just because you quit. Get your ingame friends msn/skype/steam/email or whatever. You will be surprised how many are up for playing other games, if they have already played one with you :)
Sophia Mileghere Agressive Fraction Killers 31	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:25:48 - [170] - Quote Here was a very good idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427590&p=93 Red Deck wrote: Just an idea... CCP, if you are really interested in knowing what people think about the new icons and how strongly they feel about the issue, why don't you create a poll and link it prominently from the launcher? I recall participating in a poll on new features in EVE published by CCP before... Trust me when I say there is a lot more pissed people than you can see in this (already monumental) thread... The poll might be super simple like Choose one from: A) Love the new icons, keep the old ones buried. B) Mixed bag, no strong feelings either way. C) The new icons don't work for me, roll the whole thing back. and as an extra yes/no question: D) Make using the old icons an option. This should provide you with data enough to possibly reconsider your current course of action (or a solid justification to tell all of us in this thread very plainly to shut the ** up because we are clearly just an insignificant, even if vocal minority). So that can be simply ascertained what the customers want, CCP should really put up the idea with the survey. So a survey gets itself relatively fast. If CCP did this, they would save all one amount of time and frustration. Of course they would have to put the survey fairly and neutrally and they should publish the result. Finally, CCP must implement the results only in the game. CCP, a question I would still have. Because CSM does not speak to us: What exactly has said the CSM to the Icons**?

Miniemoo Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:26:50 - [171] - Quote It seems that the people that are happy with the changes are the players that it does not effect. I Dont hate the changes just feel they need to be significantly improved, lost a few ships because i though they was Wrecks. Becoming even more significant in larger fighter. when people call ship types to blap. ( constantly ripping through overview tabs during big fights, still as buggy as hell )
DexterShark The Night Watchmen The Bastion 76	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:27:57 - [172] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: oh one phrase did make me laugh. The idea that the art department or devs might be bored and need to be given 'make work' tasks. honestly, I will be timing the telling of that to when some devs are sipping beers because I am evil and love watching people try to keep ale from coming out of their noses. m Nice to see a CSM finally say something about these icons. The point you are missing in your rush to make your dev-chummy reply, is that there absolutely are so many things that need work on design and UI in Eve - the industry UI was wonderful, for example, and great work is being done, for sure. But this icon overhaul was a feature no one asked for. It solved a dev-perceived problem that no actual players had. The implementation is well below the high standards that we have come to expect from CCP recently, and needless work is now continuing to be put into iterating a design that has made this core part of the game worse than it was before. Hence the feeling (which I agree with) that "they are just doing needless work for the sake of it" on this feature. It is just not a good design, it hasn't worked and the UI design team need to acknowledge that, revert it, and move on to other pressing projects that do need their attention.
Dino Zavr Shadow Owls 24	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:31:45 - [173] - Quote Dear CCP, Please, stop antagonizing your players. This is highly immature. The criticism that your stated goals to unify icons and make them more convenient to use were not reached is objective and constructive. Players do not wain for no reason. If your favorites shop all of a sudden start selling low quality items you would find another one, if your ISP get laggy and faulty you would search fore replacement, if any service you have got used to goes bad you would, most likely, look for an alternative. So it is no surprise there are many desperate voices to unsubscribe now. I guess you have analyzed the current situation and pretty much ready to sacrifice like ~10% or more of your active subscribers. Well, what for? Whatever the big plans are to make it impossible to recognize player and NPC ships (like players joining Amarr Fleet against drifters), do you think you have taken a wise desicion? Offending your fair players just for a bunch of pixels. That's lame. Replacing sprites does not require rewriting of code. Please, make choosing between both (old and new icon sets) an option. It is not that complex. Also, I'd like to see jump animation optional (just like a camera shake) and return of a jukebox. Please, start a massive poll about new overview icons to begin to listen to our suggestions and to estimate the scale of this issue, restore the old set as an option and then refining the new 'beta' set will be smooth as it was to be from the very start. I still hope to see the mature reaction from the prominent company rather than insulting advise to accept the changes of a controversial quality or just leave. This issue can be fixed without escalating the conflict, only patience and wisdom required. Thanks.
Merior Class D In Space Weyr Syndicate 4	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:39:56 - [174] - Quote CCP Claymore wrote: Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure? The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM. i asked in the issues thread and got the above in reply.[/quote] Giving myself time to get used to the new "brackets" is all very well but how can you be expected to memorise images when it is virtually impossible to distinguish between them even on a decent 23 inch screen? If you insist on sticking with this set of brackets then at least give us the option of using a clearer simplified set that doesn't provide us with an overload of information when we are in stress mode. My accounts are due for renewal soon. I hope that you have solved these issues by then.
Freelancer117 so you want to be a Hero 288	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:45:54 - [175] - Quote PAPULA wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: CCP won't go back, deal with it. Then i will not come back to game anymore, deal with it, and no you can't have my stuff, let it dust in stations. Agreed, lately CCP made a change in it's behaviour towards it's paying customers, and this is big set back. IF CCP would tell us the whole truth and say that this is needed to fight botting and perhaps rmt then it would be understandable, to "fix" something that is totally not broken. However with the lack of any information about banning accounts plus how quietly they handled the iwantisk situation I have to concluded this is just some stupid anti consumer idea again from the upper echelon management. The interbusship identification system needs more Pssssssshhh so let's redo the icons in the same way, reading between the lines here: Quote: Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS. This one was aimed primarily at newer players who are familiar with the Interbus Ship Identification System (ISIS) for learning the vast number of ships it is possible to fly and encounter. Thus having the in-space brackets of the ships they encounter match the ISIS tree was an important connection to make. Initially our plan was to migrate the old ISIS icons into the brackets, but our testing and feedback showed us they were simply not designed to be usable at the small bracket scale. So we made a completely new set that could be used at both scales and simply ported it over to ISIS. The new player experience should be left to those that understand new bro's...... gamers and /or the CSM Regards, a Freelancer PS: see previous post about new player experience source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5830022#post5830022 The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans. http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 560	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:49:58 - [176] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: I havent adapted to it yet and probably never will, Im not sure who you asked that adapted to this change, it certainly was nobody I play with. My biggest complaint is that all brackets have the same size now, from light drone through pod to battleahip, making it incredibly difficult to distinguish ships from drones. I feels you. This puts a lid on returning to PvP for me - the combat situation awareness is horrendous with those chevrons flying around. Remember, two minutes in Paint - http://i.imgur.com/RYBmrkG.png EVE has so much information overload, even though it is a relatively low Actions Per Minute game - some things need to more than straightforward, and overview is one of them. Sophia Mileghere wrote: Here was a very good idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427590&p=93 Red Deck wrote: Just an idea... CCP, if you are really interested in knowing what people think about the new icons and how strongly they feel about the issue, why don't you create a poll and link it prominently from the launcher? I recall participating in a poll on new features in EVE published by CCP before... Trust me when I say there is a lot more pissed people than you can see in this (already monumental) thread... The poll might be super simple like Choose one from: A) Love the new icons, keep the old ones buried. B) Mixed bag, no strong feelings either way. C) The new icons don't work for me, roll the whole thing back. and as an extra yes/no question: D) Make using the old icons an option. This should provide you with data enough to possibly reconsider your current course of action (or a solid justification to tell all of us in this thread very plainly to shut the ** up because we are clearly just an insignificant, even if vocal minority). So that can be simply ascertained what the customers want, CCP should really put up the idea with the survey. So a survey gets itself relatively fast. If CCP did this, they would save all one amount of time and frustration. Of course they would have to put the survey fairly and neutrally and they should publish the result. Finally, CCP must implement the results only in the game. CCP, a question I would still have. Because CSM does not speak to us: What exactly has said the CSM to the Icons*? This is one of the best ideas, in like forever. Poll data would still stay internal. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]*
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 18	Posted - 2015.06.19 13:50:08 - [177] - Quote Well, 2 account cancelled.....wonder if they going to get the point. I cited the development blog and CCP Surge as the reason. I might come back if changes are made and CCP Surge offers an apology for that post, maybe.
Builder AlphaOne United Conflict Space Command Gentlemen's.Club 5	Posted - 2015.06.19 14:17:56 - [178] - Quote far too many icons are all the same color [white] and, with their thin wire frames and small size, too difficult to distinguish from each other. overview hasn't enough tabs to really help with this ... can't always afford to dedicate a tab entirely to drones [for example] and yet killing those opponent sentry drones is a critical task. -- can't have multiple overview tabs open at once [handy as that would be even if it would make the check box in the dscanner a problem] -- and there's just not enough room on the screen even if you could have two open at once.
Leah Agenon Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.06.19 14:26:49 - [179] - Quote to me that new bracket is good progress, however what about giving the ability to chose a color to in the overview for a specific class of entities? I think that the key missing element to really met the objective of improved situational awareness. The simple ability to click on an entity and choose from the color palette. I could make all drones yellow or cruisers orange, could be higher level too, like all ships green and structures blue. this in addition the to tags and background currently. Food for thought, sorry if some posted this approach didn't do an exhaustive search on the forums before posting. cheers guys.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 560	Posted - 2015.06.19 14:30:55 - [180] - Quote Colour-coding for everything on the overview would be best, but that further emphasizes the issue of the likeness of all of the chevron icons. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]

Orm Magnustat Red Serpent Industries 37	Posted - 2015.06.19 14:34:14 - [181] - Quote CCP Surge, I gave myself some time to digest this piece of a dev blog - it didnt really help much though A lot of people gave a lot of very personal, detailed, constructive and (initially) friendly feedback in the Carnyx thread (as i learned a lot of similar feedback was available even earlier after the Singularity testing). The kind of empty fluff you produce in your dev-blog is just an insult to all those people... I feel really bad for those that expected something from CCP in this matter. Though you allow yourself to acknowledge, that there are "issues" and that you "could have done better", at the same time you dont feel the need to actually adress the sore points and deny them all the possible short term solutions. Instead i read a lot of narcisstic rambling about how even better everything will become (sometime). Your icon overhaul broke the core functionality of the icons for many players - the was a ONE_GLANCE tactical overview, through the absolutely CLEAR DISTINCTION of player-ships, npc-ships, drones and celestials. As long as your new system cant offer this (and it falls horribly short on that) you should take peoples complains dead serious. But (and here my jaw really dropped) you seem to have a totally different view of your job as a dev: Quote: ................................. Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present. - CCP Surge Eve indeed is a tough and merciless game - because it's one of the few/last pvp full-loot games where your fuckups really matter and may cost you dearly. But when you feel its your job as a dev to screw with players perceptions, take funtionality from them and "saw confusion" to make it a bit harder for them then I can only hope for CCP that this misconception of yours will be set straight as fast as possible. Selling your blunder and sub par work as a "feature" is beyond stupid and just adds insult to injury for those suffering from your expansion.
croakroach Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum 7	Posted - 2015.06.19 14:35:21 - [182] - Quote Quote: A clearer system for identifying different objects in space. Intended for veterans and newbies alike to be able to better read situations and assess threat levels. This statement is a little off; however my complaint is not with the icons, but the application of the background color of the icons for different standings and war/militia targets. See before and after here: http://puu.sh/iuOqB/fd9fa57179.jpg To be fair, I do have a form of color blindness in which I am unable to distinguish red from green (and purple from blue, etc). In the image on the right hand side, trying to find the red highlighted target is impossible; to me it is now invisible. My complaint is that before the changes, I could easily pick out a red target in a sea of neutrals, which is especially important when trying to chase a target as I can see in space which direction they warp. Immediately after these changes this too became impossible for me unless I select their ship first. This means, for me, "a clearer system for identifying different objects in space" is a more convoluted system for identifying objects in space as it has become much more challenging to find them in space. Can something be done to make this clearer again? Removing neutrals is unfortunately not an option because neutrals can often be a threat (bumping Machariel, neutral logistic, neutral scout, etc).
croakroach Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum 7	Posted - 2015.06.19 14:59:57 - [183] - Quote GankYou wrote: Colour-coding for everything on the overview would be best, but that further emphasizes the issue of the likeness of all of the chevron icons. http://puu.sh/iuRgo/f1f1b54817.jpg That could be interesting; it would help the color blind folks too as we can pick colors we can see.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 40	Posted - 2015.06.19 15:08:59 - [184] - Quote Ok i made some personnal studyn and here what i came up with : http://i.imgur.com/cqbE3T0.png?1 I must sadly admit that there're some huge un logic tiny details, that could, if modified, change the whole set-up...
Lisa Gentilette The Scope Gallente Federation 114	Posted - 2015.06.19 15:15:04 - [185] - Quote 23 hours later, 1 developer making one comment, 1 CSM member responding he, not the CSM, is pushing for better improvements and this dev blog is already pushed of the front page. Talk about digging in your heels.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 561	Posted - 2015.06.19 15:21:28 - [186] - Quote croakroach wrote: GankYou wrote: Colour-coding for everything on the overview would be best, but that further emphasizes the issue of the likeness of all of the chevron icons. http://puu.sh/iuRgo/f1f1b54817.jpg That could be interesting; it would help the color blind folks too as we can pick colors we can see. Indeed, the more systematic the "coding" is - the better. Our brains are wired to very efficiently recognise coherent patterns - colour is one of them. Size + colour + shape would be the bestest, however even proper overview icon sizing alone made this game function for more than 12 years, and right now we have none of the aforementioned things. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Xola Zuni The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 4	Posted - 2015.06.19 16:05:56 - [187] - Quote This devblog feels like a slap to the face. CCP Surge's found a way of being a kind of self-critical, but then patronizing and effectively ignoring the feedback from the community. I especially feel for those who gave constructive feedback to CCP and now are treated like this. This must hurt. TLDR sum up: Pretty pragmatic solution for the icons: Do it like the new starmap, have both options available. Let the (paying!) customer decide what he prefers. Changes can be good, but if there is no need for it (=not broken), new features should be optional and only activated on demand by the player himself. Quote: Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat From my experience what reduces reaction time is NOT having MORE information, it is about having LESS information. And (real) situational awareness is only gained after one knows the exact ship type (ignoring fits as one cannot tell from the icons anyways). Icons do not tell if it is a incurus or a merlin or a daredevil or a hawk. Therefore almost no situational awareness comes from icons. The way this was handled before suited my playstyle (low-sec solo pirate) a lot more: I knew if the ship was S, M , L or XL by checking the icon. Based upon this I could easily prioritize. I want to fight small stuff? There are only medium ships on field? Warpoff. I only had to differ between a few icons to set my initial STRATEGY (avoid, engage, check for more details, etc). Only when I decided to stay (or was forced to), I proceeded to the next layer of thinking: TACTICS (range, ammo type, EWAR, etc). Then I could check for in-detail ship types etc. This does not work with the current icons any longer. I have to differ between 17! icons (only counting ships) instead of four. I have to process over four times more data than before. Data might be more accurate but definitely takes more time for an initial reaction. And I still need to check wheter it is a Incursus, Comet, Enyo, Taranis or else. As mentioned above, situational awareness only starts now. ********** The new icons might work out in situations where a) (initial) reaction time does NOT matter as you have more time to process information (maybe big fleets?) b) situational awareness is already (partially) given (f.e PVE -> you know what you fight) Even though I do not participate often in such actions like a + b, I think this is a good addition for people who do. But then, there is no reason at all to screw with all the other individuals, who where happy with how it was before; and to slap them in their face.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 41	Posted - 2015.06.19 16:08:54 - [188] - Quote Added glowing effect of the icones suggested by croakroach to help colorblindness (this is if ever CCP give player a color customization option, since they take it away from us since the UI option possibilities, i'm afraid they won't.) http://i.imgur.com/QHvv3CK.png?1
Danmal Proioxis Assault Force Exodus. 5	Posted - 2015.06.19 16:18:10 - [189] - Quote What annoys me about the original dev post is the underlying arrogance with which it is written. Much of the feedback revolved around the fact that changes could have been implemented with a much gentler touch and w/o ruining the uniqueness of player and NPC craft as classes of icons. I maintain that in order to make ship classes different from each other, you increased the similarity of player ship icons to many other icons in the game, which can prevent the fast identification of ships altogether. This could actually be tested empirically. In my opinion: Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat - FAIL A clearer system for identifying different objects in space. - FAIL Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS. - DOES ANYONE CARE, BUT YOU? Catering to several years of feedback telling us the old bracket system, separating ships only by size categories, was not as useful as it could be - TRUE, BUT MAKING IT WORSE HAS NEVER BEEN A GOOD SOLUTION Apart from the mess that identifying player craft has become, the icons are also visually unappealing. The person who has designed these icons should take a lesson from the simple elegance with which the originals were designed, or better yet, just revert the whole system until you come up with something that is actually better than the original.
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 20	Posted - 2015.06.19 18:01:16 - [190] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Ok i made some personnal studyn and here what i came up with : http://i.imgur.com/ymH9r6M.png?1 I must sadly admit that there're some huge un logic tiny details, that could, if modified, change the whole set-up... Added suggested layer re-positioning http://i.imgur.com/QHvv3CK.png?1 Who do you think you are telling a Dev how to do his job? It's what he us paid for. ROFL... I couldn't help it, welcome to the complaining side.

Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 41	Posted - 2015.06.19 18:15:21 - [191] - Quote Jessica Serrato wrote: Who do you think you are telling a Dev how to do his job? It's what he us paid for. ROFL... I couldn't help it, welcome to the complaining side. Well yeah, i knew someone would do it. At least i'm trying to contribute to something. :D I have to repeat something though, i never said CCP did an awsome job and that it was good as it was. I was just responding to the non-constructive feedbacks syaing : "go back to old system, i have my habits, screw you CCP"..
Bernard Dupont C0NATUS Echoes of Nowhere 16	Posted - 2015.06.19 18:46:02 - [192] - Quote Please ccp stop that. Having big red points or icones in space is really ugly. Lite boxes were really better to regonized in space what ship is without using overview. I'm playing a 3D game spaceship to have 3D ships on my screen an not ugly icones. Just take an eye of what eve will look like in few months https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SqdfzQeT7s Thanks u for killing the game ! Were there not other priorities than destruct an old good and smarter concept ? Bookmarks management for example... Why didn't cpp make an option for players to play with old UI ? CPP developpers are not good enough to make that or is ccp afraid of most people will not use it ? Why ccp impose it ? Jeez, I hope one day mod ll for this game... Have u notice that numbers of players online have decrease since u begin to make deep changes on the game (more than one year now) ?
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 565	Posted - 2015.06.19 18:49:36 - [193] - Quote Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_overload Cleanse Serce wrote: I was just responding to the non-constructive feedbacks syaing : "go back to old system, i have my habits, screw you CCP".. It is not about the habits, but rather about the cohesion of the concept in question. One could make a bicycle with a hexa-, or a heptagon wheel, though why would one do that? ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Ereilian Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans 120	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:13:52 - [194] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: OK, a couple of things 1) yeah I am still pushing for the colourblind solution to be looked at. (as are other CSMs) b) No, I am not pushing for a button to make it like it was iii) Yes, drones need to look more distinct and less like other things four) yes I am old and squint a lot at the screen, especially when tired. The yellow and white sometimes blur together, the text font always needs to be larger, the damn calculator is almost impossible to read (needs bigger numbers and spacing on each trio of digits so 10 mill is distinctive from 100 mill) damn wandered off topic 00000101) the nice thing about CSM is that you have large fleet FC's small gang folks, high low and null represented. People who shoot PvE and PvP. We have been playing with it as well. We are still giving feedback and some of us are still listening to you. oh one phrase did make me laugh. The idea that the art department or devs might be bored and need to be given 'make work' tasks. honestly, I will be timing the telling of that to when some devs are sipping beers because I am evil and love watching people try to keep ale from coming out of their noses. m Mike, your record is pretty clear when it comes to representing the wider playerbase, you don't. Your position on the CSM is wholly reliant on the fact that most of the community realizes that the CSM is just another wing of the CCP marketing dept. It has not been relevant since CCP neutered it post Incarna. I am sure your besties will get a good laugh out of it, thank you for confirming that you are basically an unpaid CCP employee.
SamuraiJack Tritanium Industries and Technology Backseat Promises 129	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:14:26 - [195] - Quote Did you break other crap in game with the overview too CCP? Turning off brackets used to remove objects icons NOT on your overview from space. It now no longer does this. I've tried with show all icons both on and off. Same result. You cant see a fracking THING in niarja atm with all the goon ganking. Concord everywhere. SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
Louanne Barros Hole Violence Whole Squid 85	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:18:53 - [196] - Quote I wonder if CCP has considered occasionally improving the game, instead of just changing it.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 565	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:24:49 - [197] - Quote SamuraiJack wrote: You cant see a fracking THING in niarja atm with all the goon ganking. Concord everywhere. http://i.imgur.com/1JyOZCP.jpg I don't see myself returning to PvP in EVE until the issue of the triangles w/ chevrons is resolved. The only icons that work are the Shuttles & the Rookie ships - that's it. Disclosure: I play on a 17'' notebook at 1920x1080 resolution and 100% UI scaling. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
SamuraiJack Tritanium Industries and Technology Backseat Promises 130	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:29:22 - [198] - Quote GankYou wrote: SamuraiJack wrote: You cant see a fracking THING in niarja atm with all the goon ganking. Concord everywhere. http://i.imgur.com/TYXoYah.jpg I don't see myself returning to PvP in EVE until the issue of the triangles w/ chevrons is resolved. The only icons that work are the Shuttles & the Rookie ships - that's it. Disclosure: I play on a 17'' notebook at 1920x1080 resolution and 100% UI scaling. So in short. Yes they did break it. SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 565	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:32:30 - [199] - Quote SamuraiJack wrote: GankYou wrote: SamuraiJack wrote: You cant see a fracking THING in niarja atm with all the goon ganking. Concord everywhere. http://i.imgur.com/TYXoYah.jpg I don't see myself returning to PvP in EVE until the issue of the triangles w/ chevrons is resolved. The only icons that work are the Shuttles & the Rookie ships - that's it. Disclosure: I play on a 17'' notebook at 1920x1080 resolution and 100% UI scaling. So in short. Yes they did break it. The whole underlying problem is that they went to do all ze icons at the same time - should've started with player spaceships before touching anything else. I also have no idea why icons for objects like the planets, moons, the sun, containers and wrecks were changed in the first place. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
MaverickScot Unidentified Flying Saucer 67	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:36:15 - [200] - Quote Steijn wrote: MaverickScot wrote: Having read BRACKET ICON MADNESS - FEEDBACK ON THE NEW OVERVIEW BRACKETS" I do not see anything relating to feed back about having an option go roll back. There is plenty about new icons and changes to the future icons to improve them but a lot of feed back I read was negative and related to having the option of old or new. Do you intend to offer feed back to those people too? Even a simple we are not going back would do. I still don't like the new icons. Mav. CCP Claymore wrote: Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure? The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM. i asked in the issues thread and got the above in reply. Cheers.

Ida Aurlien Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor 46	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:42:52 - [201] - Quote LOL .You can really see the ccp "Decoy's" on the boards now... they are the ones trying to change the smell of them...
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 566	Posted - 2015.06.19 19:47:32 - [202] - Quote Another major issue is no differentiation by weapons systems - the old varying in size icons gave hints straight away what you'd be dealing with. This would also function in the same manner http://i.imgur.com/RYBmrkG.png / http://i.imgur.com/0XNw6FC.png Can't confuse a small turret/LM frigates with cruisers here, and of course cruisers can sport RLMLs, so a down triangle can spell both an easy kill & trouble for frigates. The rhombus = Large turrets/missiles plus Heavy neuts of course. In an engagement, the information is best read from the left to right - Icon, followed by type & velocity, unless of course the enemy sports a uniform fleet that you have the intel on in advance. The underlying feature is CONTRAST. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Alexis Nightwish 250	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:05:00 - [203] - Quote Dev Blog wrote: Add icons to overview customization WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. This will also double as an in-client legend and visual guide to learning the new icons faster. Can you please elaborate on this? CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Orm Magnustat Red Serpent Industries 45	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:11:21 - [204] - Quote GankYou wrote: .................................. The whole underlying problem is that they went to do all ze icons at the same time - should've started with player spaceships before touching anything else. I also have no idea why icons for objects like the planets, moons, the sun, containers and wrecks were changed in the first place. ........................ Thats actually the core of this whole debacle...... If there was a need for it (that i personally never felt or heard of) the old iconset could have been easily polished to give the desired "additonal information" without loosing any of its grown functionality. But ofc its much cooler (and personally more satisfying) to reinvent the wheel ..... ok, in this case it doesnt roll anymore for some of the vehicles, but anyways the job is much more profound! Imagine your boss asks you what you have done for the past 6 weeks: A. " I completed a whole new icon set of 200+ icons, held endless focus groups for it and tons of meetings with the art department! It took us around 300 man hours!" B. " I added a very little dot in the middle of the otherwise unchanged frigate icon to distinguish destroyers. Took us 15 minutes, including the testing." Case A gets the coolness points and the promotion for activism. Case B gets a working solution without any friction with the existing system and playerbase, but no coolness points.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 567	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:15:29 - [205] - Quote This is a very bad situation indeed, and overview is not the Neocom, which can be ignored most of the time. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Louanne Barros Hole Violence Whole Squid 88	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:27:04 - [206] - Quote Can we have more than five overview tabs now? Please? I maintain my own overview pack, and I'm not scared of geometric shapes.
Mara Kell Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore 66	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:44:29 - [207] - Quote I have kept myself out of the 90 page feedback thread for the icons because i allready learned in the UI discussion that constructive feedback is totally useless when something is planned and set for introduction. However i feel personally insulted by this devblog. Do you REALLY think that by better explaining the icons to us they will get more usefull? We (at least my and my corpmates) are not stupid little kids that can be dazzeled by some nice words... And regarding your finishing sentence: Quote: But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present. Is it possible that you are mixing the development of your game client and your game content here? The sandbox is not the development of the game client but the game itself... Or do you consider the contact with us, your paying customers some kind of game? After all that would explain some developments in the younger past. In all seriousness regarding the icon change: If you dont plan on actually involving us players on feature development then please DONT pretend to do so by posting nice devblogs in the test server forum... ok?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3662	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:53:28 - [208] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: (...) four) yes I am old and squint a lot at the screen, especially when tired. The yellow and white sometimes blur together, the text font always needs to be larger, the damn calculator is almost impossible to read (needs bigger numbers and spacing on each trio of digits so 10 mill is distinctive from 100 mill) (...) I'm not old but my eyes are a wreck. I already had issues telling faint yellow from faint gray, and now those isues are same or a bit worst since they've become tiny faint yellow vs tiny faint white. Certainly there is no improvement for me in the new UI, but so far It also hasn't hit my gameplay since asteroids are mostly harmless. Overall I feel that the new icons are a solution without a problem, whereas the real issues are not fixed and some new have abound. "Change" is obvious, "improvement" is moot. 73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
Shuckstar Tax Haters Evaders Corp 303	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:57:24 - [209] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: I can't understand how hatefull you are for a simple change of icon set. Did you lose your brain for you to not be able to adapt and change your habits ? Seriously guys, this is pathetic. I'm sad to be part of such a community that just sit on their static quirks. Dev alt spotted CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 42	Posted - 2015.06.19 22:09:01 - [210] - Quote Shuckstar wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: I can't understand how hatefull you are for a simple change of icon set. Did you lose your brain for you to not be able to adapt and change your habits ? Seriously guys, this is pathetic. I'm sad to be part of such a community that just sit on their static quirks. Dev alt spotted I wish i were.

Teacher Oumis Hedion University Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.06.19 22:09:41 - [211] - Quote Having taken time with the new icons, I still have to stand on the side of the people that would like a legacy option for the old icons or perhaps a customizable overview. I used to be able to tell out the corner of my eye if another ship landed on grid without even looking directly at the overview. There's no hope of that now. And God forbid you have a ship warp in when there's npc wrecks on overview or even on the main screen. They just disappear into a sea of triangles. I have to be honest and say I wasn't happy with the new map, especially while scanning, but I had an option to disable that so it was fine. The new icons there's no such option, so I'm finding myself enjoying the game less and logging in less. To echo some of the other user replies, I did also find the tone of the dev-blog mildly condescending. The usability of your interface is another kettle of fish entirely and shouldn't be drawn into the harsh-space reality of your sandbox.
Rat Scout Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2015.06.20 07:35:35 - [212] - Quote I am not sure why some of the icons are what they are. I get it, people want to work and update pixels, fine. But I wish there was some better logic to ship progression. It would have been really helpful to allow us to use colors to fill in the icons in the overview, not the background, but the actual icons only. I don't want to nit pick on icons that are irrelevant to combat, but I would like to see the ship icons improve a bit. The ISIS sample that was featured a long time ago in a dev blog had much better icon progression, the bigger the ship, the more complex the icon. And to be even more constructive, I even spent a few minutes in illustrator to draw something up that I would find easy to work with. The current simple carrier icon is almost the same as the POCO icon, on small screens with low graphics this could be difficult to work with/ get used to. http://imgur.com/lMAkjjX The solution that I would like to see the most is to allow us to use custom colors on each icon that represents a ship type. If that was available, I could care less what shape the icon is, my color coded overview would tell me what I need to know. (ps: sorting by color should also be implemented to make it even more awesome)
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 43	Posted - 2015.06.20 08:31:33 - [213] - Quote Rat Scout wrote: http://imgur.com/lMAkjjX The solution that I would like to see the most is to allow us to use custom colors on each icon that represents a ship type. If that was available, I could care less what shape the icon is, my color coded overview would tell me what I need to know. (ps: sorting by color should also be implemented to make it even more awesome) http://i.imgur.com/Ljd4GAM.png I'm afraid with color it's even worst. If they but color options, it's got to be very carefully studied cause it could completly make the ship icones useless
Rat Scout Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2015.06.20 08:54:53 - [214] - Quote @Cleanse Your idea of color coding ships is not what I was talking about. Frigs would be ...- pink ..... Destroyers - orange Cruisers - navy etc corp/alliance/fleet I do not need to see in my overview, everything else is something I can shoot at. If I am logi, I don't need to see the enemy in overview.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 43	Posted - 2015.06.20 09:16:45 - [215] - Quote Rat Scout wrote: @Cleanse Your idea of color coding ships is not what I was talking about. Frigs would be ...- pink ..... Destroyers - orange Cruisers - navy etc corp/alliance/fleet I do not need to see in my overview, everything else is something I can shoot at. If I am logi, I don't need to see the enemy in overview. wether its for alliance/corp or ship class, it is still colors that we're talkin about right ?
Mag's the united 19627	Posted - 2015.06.20 09:20:31 - [216] - Quote CCP never seem to learn from the past. Same mistake, different situation. I long ago gave up bothering, as pride always seems to get in the way of great change. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Rat Scout Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2015.06.20 09:36:33 - [217] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Rat Scout wrote: @Cleanse Your idea of color coding ships is not what I was talking about. Frigs would be ...- pink ..... Destroyers - orange Cruisers - navy etc corp/alliance/fleet I do not need to see in my overview, everything else is something I can shoot at. If I am logi, I don't need to see the enemy in overview. wether its for alliance/corp or ship class, it is still colors that we're talkin about right ? Or potatoes, maybe call me? As if it matters what you and me are talking about.
Drammie Askold Phoibe Enterprises 6	Posted - 2015.06.20 10:19:59 - [218] - Quote May I suggest that ccp update the icon for 'capsuleers in local' on the local window to the new icon, to avoid confusion.
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels 209	Posted - 2015.06.20 14:08:26 - [219] - Quote Mag's wrote: CCP never seem to learn from the past. Same mistake, different situation. I long ago gave up bothering, as pride always seems to get in the way of great change. I think the New lead game designer last year, and the new lead art director, a few days ago, explains this. New leads, want to put their mark on the game. Didnt learn from Incarna because it was not THEIR asses on the line that time. Now the new people think.. "hmm, where should I make my mark... hey, some UI elements haven't been changed much in the last ten years, Lets plant that down as my personal flag" That in my opnion also explains CCP's stubbornness with this, and their attitute to the feedback. It's not about improvements, it's just about pride..
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 576	Posted - 2015.06.20 14:38:13 - [220] - Quote Rat Scout wrote: http://imgur.com/lMAkjjX Even this example has too much information & similarity for combat between 4 classes of ships that all use different-sized weapons systems. The carrier one I like, if it gets differentiated by size like the old icons, but it might as well could be a rhombus or a pentagon. Not quite sure why people stop counting at three angles. The chosen concept is at fault here - wrecks competing with PvP spaceships for the best icon concepts. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]

Tara Eves Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2015.06.20 16:41:25 - [221] - Quote Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: The VAST VAST majority of your player base is sayimg NO we dont want these icons....Give us an option to revert and not use your terrible new icons.... This ^^ Your new Icons are a terrible, awful, train-wreck of an idea. Either roll it back or give us the toggle option so those who want it can select it - just mucking about with what you've described in this dev blog is like attempting to polish a turd.
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 24	Posted - 2015.06.20 21:34:45 - [222] - Quote All Those In Favor of a Roll Back....Reply "Roll Back!" ROLL BACK!
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 435	Posted - 2015.06.20 23:16:07 - [223] - Quote Roll Back! Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Mackenzie Hawkwood Event Horizon Expeditionaries Apocalypse Now. 34	Posted - 2015.06.21 02:22:54 - [224] - Quote This dev blog's hubris is up there with incarna's $1000 jeans, the 'the users don't know what they need, we do' for derpified inventry's X-tree gold port or the 'It would be a Cop out' response to the calls for an off switch for the jump animation. Not much point to feedback if it is only going to be ignored as it doesn't toe the company line of all dev's are infallible. Icons are suppose to make identification of objects simple, a fact that seems to be forgotten or lost in the mission creep of the original idea. Do we really need 12 icons for cans? As an example I support the calls for a Roll Back or failing that, the ability to switch to the old icon set. The same way we are able to switch between the working old map or the fail new map or the ablity to switch off notificiations, compass, transparency and window blur, sensor overlay and opportunities (thats an other issue in and of itself). Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that. - Kina Ayami
Bad Bobby Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust 883	Posted - 2015.06.21 03:51:48 - [225] - Quote The community outnumber the developers by thousands to one, have more time, more knowledge and charge nothing for their services. Give us the ability to fully customize the UI, including the icons and brackets. Make the customization shareable and then leave it to us. Shipping us a centrally mandated UI does not work, because one size does not fit all. With a customizable UI, those that want to play with a classic skin can, those that want to play with a Caynyx skin can and those like me that think both are terrible are would really like to see a decent UI in EVE for once can make their own or download the efforts of more talented members of the community. Stop messing around.
Louanne Barros Hole Violence Whole Squid 95	Posted - 2015.06.21 04:10:11 - [226] - Quote Bad Bobby wrote: Give us the ability to fully customize the UI, including the icons and brackets. Make the customization shareable and then leave it to us. This please. Heck, I can even do this in Team Fortress 2.
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 177	Posted - 2015.06.21 06:08:03 - [227] - Quote Rat Scout wrote: And to be even more constructive, I even spent a few minutes in illustrator to draw something up that I would find easy to work with. http://imgur.com/lMAkjjX This wouldn't be easy to work with. The key to easy identification in the old icons was the difference in size. If we work from that, icons of bigger ship classes should feel bigger. Now, in old overview that was working petty well with NPC icons because the size was easily conveyed by the line thickness. PC brackets - not so much, since when looking at a sole bracket in space (not in the overview) there was no point of reference for the size comparsion. Your example makes the same mistakes as the new CCP icons - at a quick glance all of that stuff are just similar triangles. IMHO, to be able to serve as a good ship size indicator, an icon has to have 1) A constant and simple point of reference shared among all the relevant (read: ship) icons. 2) A pronounced HORISONTAL size difference of the main icon element. Why horisontal? Apparently studies show that horizontal and vertical size perception mechanics significantly differ from each other, and a) horizontal perception is more consistent and b) vertical perception is inertial over short periods of time. That is, a vertical size perception of an object is affected by a previously observed object. 3) Only 3 size classes are relevant - per navigation and weapon size. Destroyer and bc icons can be modifications of frig and cruiser icons, but done carefully. That is, the modification must not affect perceived size of an icon. That's where your and CCP icons fail - an auxiliary indicator blends with the icon. 4) Capitals are a different beast altogether and honestly could use a distinct shape of icons. 5) NPC and PC ships need completely different icon sets. The simplest (but not the best) example of such a system is a set of triangles with an equal height (a common point of reference) but different base (for differentiating size). Better yet, hollow base arrows with different line thickness. For finer class distinction auxiliary tags in the icon top left corner could be used (opposite to bottom right used for colortags. Also in case of arrows the distance to the main part of the icon would be enough to prevent blending). As for NPCs, just leave the crosses and mark dessies and BCs by filling the cross' top left corner.
Rat Scout Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2015.06.21 06:39:20 - [228] - Quote @Torgeir I agree with your assessment, I merely tried to bring up the issue with the icons that I have, which is inconsistency. I believe that even if they didn't follow your basic rundown on how to create good icons for a large number of "stuff", if they at least made the same categories to use a base shape ( as I tried to use the triangle in all my ship icons ) and have something that is easy to differentiate between them, then people would not be so irritated with this change. Change is inevitable but it should be progressive in the positive direction overall. If some of the POS icons were confusing, or we had the pacman gates while the ship icons made perfect sense, people wouldn't be so upset, and I am willing to bet Avrue's Token on this.
John Lawyer Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2015.06.21 07:00:41 - [229] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Ok i made some personnal studyn and here what i came up with : http://i.imgur.com/ymH9r6M.png?1 I must sadly admit that there're some huge un logic tiny details, that could, if modified, change the whole set-up... Added suggested layer re-positioning http://i.imgur.com/QHvv3CK.png?1 Wow, man! Thats the constructive feedback! Very accurate and intuitive conception. Be good if people like you worked with CCP.
Mr Mac Dark Goliath 69	Posted - 2015.06.21 07:33:37 - [230] - Quote I can live with new icons But I want old capsule icon

Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 45	Posted - 2015.06.21 08:06:19 - [231] - Quote John Lawyer wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: Ok i made some personnal studyn and here what i came up with : http://i.imgur.com/ymH9r6M.png?1 I must sadly admit that there're some huge un logic tiny details, that could, if modified, change the whole set-up... Added suggested layer re-positioning http://i.imgur.com/QHvv3CK.png?1 Wow, man! Thats the constructive feedback! Very accurate and intuitive conception. Be good if people like you worked with CCP. Thank you ! :) But yeah it might not be seen by CCP. Even if i did something ok, i forgot some principle like : - Spreading the Targetting Box to the whole line won't work for the InSpace Brackets, which is a simple square. It would overcharge the in space informations. If technically faisable though : in overview = line / in space = square, could be awsome in an aesthetic way. - Using the icone background is already used actually, and i noticed that it's a redudanced information, for instance, in space you can see your fleet-mates with a purple background AND the fleet icone on the bottom right corner, same with corp mates, etc. Very dependent to the vhoices the player did to his overview settings. - The DevBlog and focus of CCP right now, is the readability of the icones and not the overall Overview / Brackets, which is a bad way to do this whole revamp. Even though i'm ok with them, i've noticed that some points could've be enhanced by a great amount while keeping the new shapes. There are good points though : - Repositioning the layers if tecnically faisable could give players way more informations. Like a second additional square on the top right or top left corner. - Harmonizing the UI spirit months ago with the new icone set : add some glowish effects ! It also gives 'furturistic' mood. The MAIN issue with those icones is not the icones themselvs, it's the fact that people were used to [not icones = player ship] opposed to [icones = in game objects]. Now that player ships get icones, it's disturbing, that's why it could be helpfull (even though i sure it's just a matter of habit) to add a square around the PLAYER SHIP icones like here : http://i.imgur.com/Ljd4GAM.png - Organize the information. Tell which thing tell what, and avoid repeated ones. If you state [background = relationship state] DO NOT allow to say the same info by another way. If you state [bottom right cornoer icone = standing] then DO NOT allow the background to tell this same information. Line background = tell which information about the icone ? Square bacj ground = tell which info on the icone ? Bottom right icone = ? Glowing = tell what ? Blinking = tell what ? etc...
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3671	Posted - 2015.06.21 08:18:09 - [232] - Quote Bad Bobby wrote: The community outnumber the developers by thousands to one, have more time, more knowledge and charge nothing for their services. Give us the ability to fully customize the UI, including the icons and brackets. Make the customization shareable and then leave it to us. Shipping us a centrally mandated UI does not work, because one size does not fit all. With a customizable UI, those that want to play with a classic skin can, those that want to play with a Caynyx skin can and those like me that think both are terrible are would really like to see a decent UI in EVE for once can make their own or download the efforts of more talented members of the community. Stop messing around. That's something worth noting. In most MMOS, the UI is a client based function: your client gets information ("this is a frigate") and then translates it into a visible element ("display sprite x"). This means that the client can have a custom UI because the server never knows nor cares on what is being displayed by the client. It's simple, sleek, and allows the palyer to do what better suits his needs. Now, this is CCP. They have very weird ways to do things, like constanlty reinventing the wheel as a irregular polygon. It wouldn't be far fetched that the server managed the sprite as a part of its internal transactions ("this is object X, a bundle of a tag and a client sprite") and thus it was effectively impossible to use different UI sprites since that would mean that the server should be able to interact with all those hybrid objects: server side, "Frigate whose sprite is a cross" would be different than "frigate whose sprite is a triangle". That would make things horribly complicated; client customization would be impossible and coexistence of both interfaces too. It would be very, very !!CCP!! to reinvent the UI wheel like that... ...and my bets are that this is why the CSM and everybody in the knows says that it's impossible to return to the old brackets. My hopes are that "more visible yellow brackets" are not a threat to the existence of TQ and eventually they may become a reality. It grows very tiresome when every single simple thing (as: "players must be able to see the GUI") becomes a struggle between the Reality (aka The Players) and CCP. (CCP developers) "See, we had 50 reasons to make the GUI as it is now, but we may modify a couple pixels if you ask it enough" (Reality aka The Players) "We can't bloody see the GUI, isn't that enough reason to make it more visible?" (CCP developers) "But, but... we can see it perfectly, and we had these additional 200 reasons to make it as it is now!" (CSM to Reality aka The Players) "Seriously guys... CCP is doing their best" (CSM to CCP developers) "Seriously guys... they can't even see the GUI!" (Old grizzled CCP veteran) "Don't worry, chaps... the players are always wrong, it's a custom" (CSM) facepalm (Reality aka The Players) facepalm (CCP developers) onto new project 73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
Panterata BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm 211	Posted - 2015.06.21 12:42:05 - [233] - Quote Roll back
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 800	Posted - 2015.06.21 14:19:24 - [234] - Quote roll back
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 45	Posted - 2015.06.21 15:22:34 - [235] - Quote FOR WARD.
Sophia Mileghere Agressive Fraction Killers 34	Posted - 2015.06.21 15:25:58 - [236] - Quote @CCP Can you tell us, what you are want to do after the 12 pages here and the 95 pages here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427590&p=96 The Dev Blog was not taken up(accepted) well, so what happens now? Since the Dev Blog you have written nothing more. Want you to sit out the problems and annoy the customers or do you come on the persistent criticism?
MaverickScot Unidentified Flying Saucer 68	Posted - 2015.06.21 15:50:13 - [237] - Quote Sophia Mileghere wrote: @CCP Can you tell us, what you are want to do after the 12 pages here and the 95 pages here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427590&p=96 The Dev Blog was not taken up(accepted) well, so what happens now? Since the Dev Blog you have written nothing more. Want you to sit out the problems and annoy the customers or do you come on the persistent criticism? This
Ahed Sten 32	Posted - 2015.06.21 16:05:05 - [238] - Quote This is still a big "**** you" to anyone who dislikes the new icons. "Okay people, the Eve playerbase hates the new icons. We have to appease them somehow." "I know, lets write a dev blog about why we made these terrible decisions in the first place. At least we can make it look like our art team has two braincells to rub together. We'll put a gimmicky Eve quote in there to justify our unwillingness to listen to the players, and by the time we're done it won't even matter that we don't change a damn thing." "I LIKE it. You're promoted, Surge." This must have been how that conference went...
Lexiana Del'Amore Nouvelle Rouvenor 147	Posted - 2015.06.21 16:35:26 - [239] - Quote Roll Back
Micky Forcet Corus Industries Fortuna Alliance 3	Posted - 2015.06.21 23:11:02 - [240] - Quote Roll Back

John Lawyer Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 40	Posted - 2015.06.21 23:51:57 - [241] - Quote Idea: If there is urgent need for icon's change - make UI as much customizable as possible [blinks]. This is pure win-win solution, 'cause you will cover everyone's needs! For now, I am sadly noticing decreasing interess to play EVE (being in FW long time). Now I am mostly docked - restarting inventions and reading forums.
Elmis The ill-advised Hermit Collective 5	Posted - 2015.06.22 00:59:45 - [242] - Quote I run EVE at 100% on a 28" 4K Monitor. I personally don't mind the new icons, although admit I find the flood of additional information on the screen can get confusing. I would prefer there be more contrast in the colour between NPC and Player objects. I wouldn't mind the option to turn off some or all of the detail. When running sites or missions you often just don't need that much information. My main concern might just relate to the resolution I run my client in, but I can now find it difficult to see in the overview what is locked and what isn't.
PAPULA Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 58	Posted - 2015.06.22 03:56:04 - [243] - Quote wow number of active players dropping drastically http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Soon we'll hit 5k players..
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3680	Posted - 2015.06.22 06:36:31 - [244] - Quote PAPULA wrote: wow number of active players dropping drastically http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Soon we'll hit 5k players.. That's a different thread, literally. EVE's health is not in a place where those who love it can rejoice. 73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
Cpt Dawg Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.22 08:06:35 - [245] - Quote Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present. - CCP Surge I wish I had a business that is able to tell its cust base to go funk yourself. TO SURGE -----------> I'm cancelling 2 of my 3 accounts all thanks to you .... I wonder who much money CCP will lose over this, hopefully its a lot and you will loss your job. I was floored to read your POS response. WTF does "managed" mean you SOB. FU and your business philosophy. Oh it means Newbie pilots that did not use the old system much? Yes I have bought new games and Eve is no longer 1st choice. I can Thank you for braking my addiction to this game and making it unplayable now specially with jump fatigue also. CSM ? what a joke you all are in this matter .... CSM should be disband it serves no purpose or at least those on it do nothing of consequence. ..l.. FU CCP
John Lawyer Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2015.06.22 08:41:49 - [246] - Quote Btw, someone spoke about that people who dont like new icons are few, but here is the poll from russian eve-forum about new patch which tells different (http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=113538) In short (from top to bottom): 1&2 lines - pro (~23% combined) 3 line - neutral (~8%) 3&4 lines - contra (~69%) To completely prevent any speculations, it is need to make a poll here, of course.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 61	Posted - 2015.06.22 09:07:00 - [247] - Quote John Lawyer wrote: Btw, someone spoke about that people who dont like new icons are few, but here is the poll from russian eve-forum about new patch which tells different (http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=113538) In short (from top to bottom): 1&2 lines - pro (~23% combined) 3 line - neutral (~8%) 3&4 lines - contra (~69%) To completely prevent any speculations, it is need to make a poll here, of course. No one said that unsatisfied players were a few. I said, since this is me you are talking about, that this particular poll, in a particular forum, in which a particular amount of this forum subscribers participated, among the whole russian-speaking community, among the whole Eve Online community is NOT representativ of the whole Eve Online player base AT ALL. That is only 739 people in a particular community. In a correct "survey" which is generally made among 1 000 people you would've ask people whith different profile. French, Russians, Aussies, Germans, Americans, PvEers, PvPers, WHers, Industrials, Traders, Mission runners, Old, youg, Veterans, New players, forum readers, not forum readers, etc, etc, etc, etc... to have a really more accurate result. Even if you make a poll here, you couldn't tell the whole Eve Online player feelings, because only a little number of Eve players read those forums. Make it in-game, you might have a chance and a better accurate number to deal with.
Orm Magnustat Red Serpent Industries 77	Posted - 2015.06.22 10:18:05 - [248] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: No one said that unsatisfied players were a few. ....blabla......... NOT representativ of the whole Eve Online player base AT ALL. That is only 739 people in a particular community. In a correct "survey" which is generally made among 1 000 people you would've ask people whith different .....blabla.......... you couldn't tell the whole Eve Online player feelings ....blabla..... just shut up or take some statistics classes 1. you dont always need "representative" polls to get first ideas for current trends .... if actually someplace 700 people of a niche game like Eve raise their voices only a complete moron wouldnt take that as a strong hint for a trend. 2. unlike of what you claim, surveys are NOT "generally made among 1000 people" - the numbers depend on the population you want to talk about and the questions you want to look into. If you take a look at common market research you-¦ll find studies that claim to be representative that consist of 1000 - 2000 people that draw conclusions about a population of several tens of millions. If some research institute or company could have answers from 700 people from a population less than 200.000 they would actually lick their fingers for such data. 3. a concept like " whole Eve Online player feelings" doesnt exist in reality (but it's best troll tradition to ask for something non-existant lol) - at best you can find trends for certain subgroups in a diverse game like this. And if suddenly a "subgroup" of 700 voices pops up in your little niche game, while at the same time you loose another 10% of your gametraffic ........ well, how braindead can a company become before it goes **** up?
Obidiah Kane Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 26	Posted - 2015.06.22 10:24:15 - [249] - Quote Can't imagine going back to a bunch of ambiguously sized brackets - bar a few minor quibbles I actually can't find any logical reason to prefer the previous option over this, the amount of data gleaned on a less than a second glance at the overview has increased ten fold...for instance; landing in a NPC gatecamp - instant assessment, jump or no jump. Rather having to remember what class based on name or thickness of cross. They are brilliant, logical with a solid set of principles - keep looking to improve but consider it a win.
Eli Strange Viziam Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2015.06.22 10:58:26 - [250] - Quote I love the icons. Thank you.

Ahed Sten 38	Posted - 2015.06.22 11:24:05 - [251] - Quote Obidiah Kane wrote: For instance; landing in a NPC gatecamp - instant assessment, jump or no jump. Rather having to remember what class based on name or thickness of cross. Any decent PVP'er can recognize ship class and type based on name alone. We don't need differen't visual icons to know simple stuff like a Harbinger is a BC and an Apocalypse is a BS. Maybe if the icons distinguished between T1/T2/T3 then we'd be getting somewhere, but since there is visibly no difference between say, a Myrmidon and Eos, The whole system is pointless and brings nothing new to the table. From the perspective of a PVP'er, [At best] the new icons add no value whatsoever and [At worst] they're an ugly cluttered mess. The only lives that have been improved by this patch were the PVE'ers. Yes, it's nice to be able to distinguish mission frigs and dessies but that's as far it goes for the functionality of these icons, and it could easily have been done with the old icon system. I've said it before and I know it will never happen, but I'd be happy if CCP simplified things even more than they were before the patch. Example: Keep the square brackets for all ships Upside down triangle for wrecks A simple small dot for drones Etc... Less is more.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 620	Posted - 2015.06.22 11:43:55 - [252] - Quote John Lawyer wrote: Btw, someone spoke about that people who dont like new icons are few, but here is the poll from russian eve-forum about new patch which tells different (http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=113538) In short (from top to bottom): 1&2 lines - pro (~23% combined) 3 line - neutral (~8%) 4&5 lines - contra (~69%) To completely prevent any speculations, it is need to make a poll here, of course. I can read Russian, and those reported poll numbers are accurate. The [48.31%] choice has a wishful thinking request to bring the old overview icons back as a valid option, it is also the most strongly-worded, roughly translated as "Didn't like it at all", while the one above is "Didn't like it". Fifty six pages already in that thread alone, mind you. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
PAPULA Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 58	Posted - 2015.06.22 12:26:21 - [253] - Quote GankYou wrote: It was 33k this Sunday and 28k on Friday. That's very low, normally it was at least 54k during friday or sunday.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 621	Posted - 2015.06.22 12:28:23 - [254] - Quote The new normal is 40k. We hit 40k on May 2nd after a major patch on the 28th of April, but I see your point. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 61	Posted - 2015.06.22 13:39:59 - [255] - Quote Orm Magnustat wrote: omg, please just shut up or take some statistics classes 1. you dont always need "representative" polls to get first ideas for current trends .... if actually someplace 700 people of a niche game like Eve raise their voices only a complete moron wouldnt take that as a strong hint for a trend. 2. unlike of what you claim, surveys are NOT "generally made among 1000 people" - the numbers depend on the population you want to talk about and the questions you want to look into. If you take a look at common market research you-¦ll find studies that claim to be representative that consist of 1000 - 2000 people that draw conclusions about a population of several tens of millions. If some research institute or company could have answers from 700 people from a population less than 200.000 they would actually lick their fingers for such data. 3. a concept like " whole Eve Online player feelings" doesnt exist in reality (but it's best troll tradition to ask for something non-existant lol) - at best you can find trends for certain subgroups in a diverse game like this. And if suddenly a "subgroup" of 700 voices pops up in your little niche game, while at the same time you loose another 10% of your gametraffic ........ well, how braindead can a company become before it goes **** up? I will shut up on that for now on, cause you seem to not understand what i'm saying. If you really think that those 700 players in a specific forum among a given community, among another given community is representativ, i can't argue more. What is the question of this poll ?
Obidiah Kane Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 27	Posted - 2015.06.22 14:00:19 - [256] - Quote Ahed Sten wrote: Obidiah Kane wrote: For instance; landing in a NPC gatecamp - instant assessment, jump or no jump. Rather having to remember what class based on name or thickness of cross. Any decent PVP'er can recognize ship class and type based on name alone. We don't need differen't visual icons to know simple stuff like a Harbinger is a BC and an Apocalypse is a BS. Maybe if the icons distinguished between T1/T2/T3 then we'd be getting somewhere, but since there is visibly no difference between say, a Myrmidon and Eos, The whole system is pointless and brings nothing new to the table. From the perspective of a PVP'er, [At best] the new icons add no value whatsoever and [At worst] they're an ugly cluttered mess. The only lives that have been improved by this patch were those of the PVE'ers. Yes, it's nice to be able to distinguish between mission frigs and dessies now but that's as far it goes for the functionality of these icons, and it could easily have been achieved with the old icon system. ... I've said it before and I know it will never happen, but I'd be happy if CCP simplified things even more than they were before the patch. Keep the square brackets for all ships Upside down triangle for wrecks A simple small dot for drones Etc... Less is more. All I do is PVP, occasionally shooting suitable gate rats while roaming. I am not going to claim to be a decent PVP'er, indecent maybe - I am a pirate after all...or actually all that technically decent, truth be told; I solo in frigs, in losec (the big fleet stuff looks dull and attrition-al to me) - but I've been playing on and off since 08 and if you are telling me you can tell a tech 1/2 difference in the spacing of the old school brackets, within the same class of ship, at a glance...well, I have to say I am amazed! Thats some next level processing right there! I was sorting by the 'type' column back then (which is untouched), for those types of details - exactly as I am now - and its still taking the same amount of time. My 'at-a-glance' understanding/ identifying of what is on grid has sped up no end though.
Ahed Sten 40	Posted - 2015.06.22 15:15:07 - [257] - Quote Obidiah Kane wrote: Ahed Sten wrote: Obidiah Kane wrote: For instance; landing in a NPC gatecamp - instant assessment, jump or no jump. Rather having to remember what class based on name or thickness of cross. Any decent PVP'er can recognize ship class and type based on name alone. We don't need differen't visual icons to know simple stuff like a Harbinger is a BC and an Apocalypse is a BS. Maybe if the icons distinguished between T1/T2/T3 then we'd be getting somewhere, but since there is visibly no difference between say, a Myrmidon and Eos, The whole system is pointless and brings nothing new to the table. From the perspective of a PVP'er, [At best] the new icons add no value whatsoever and [At worst] they're an ugly cluttered mess. The only lives that have been improved by this patch were those of the PVE'ers. Yes, it's nice to be able to distinguish between mission frigs and dessies now but that's as far it goes for the functionality of these icons, and it could easily have been achieved with the old icon system. ... I've said it before and I know it will never happen, but I'd be happy if CCP simplified things even more than they were before the patch. Keep the square brackets for all ships Upside down triangle for wrecks A simple small dot for drones Etc... Less is more. All I do is PVP, occasionally shooting suitable gate rats while roaming. I am not going to claim to be a decent PVP'er, indecent maybe - I am a pirate after all...or actually all that technically decent, truth be told; I solo in frigs, in losec (the big fleet stuff looks dull and attrition-al to me) - but I've been playing on and off since 08 and if you are telling me you can tell a tech 1/2 difference in the spacing of the old school brackets, within the same class of ship, at a glance...well, I have to say I am amazed! Thats some next level processing right there! I was sorting by the 'type' column back then (which is untouched), for those types of details - exactly as I am now - and its still taking the same amount of time. My 'at-a-glance' understanding/ identifying of what is on grid has sped up no end though. If the new set works better for you then that's great, I won't argue as your preferences are your own. However, they do not work better for me and many, many others I have spoken to. To answer your question, yes I can usually, within the span of a second or two, (and even that's considered slow,) look at the name of a ship and tell you what class and tech level it is. This is really easy in LS with the frigate heavy meta where you end up seeing the same things over and over again. The new overview has not sped up the recognition process for me at all, and if anything has only slowed it down with what I consider to be annoying clutter. Situation 1 [Old set of icons] You see a small box with the name "Vengeance" Thought process: "Hurr durr a Destroyer or Frigate named 'Vengeance'. I wonder which one. Situation 2 [New set of icons] You see a frigate icon with the name 'Vengeance'. Thought process: It's obviously a frigate but I already knew that because that's easy. If your KB is an accurate indication of your actual pvp experience, then with respect, my earlier comment saying "Anyone who is decently experienced only needs the name" still stands. I might also suggest creating some cue cards with the name of the ship in one column and the ship class in the other, and reviewing them during DT between roams, because establishing the ship class really is the easiest part of the entire thing...
SamuraiJack Tritanium Industries and Technology 153	Posted - 2015.06.22 15:55:08 - [258] - Quote PAPULA wrote: GankYou wrote: It was 33k this Sunday and 28k on Friday. That's very low, normally it was at least 54k during friday or sunday. It hasnt been 50k since 2014. Its at most 30k most weekends since about april this year and thats only for a few hours. SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 580	Posted - 2015.06.22 18:05:32 - [259] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: PAPULA wrote: wow number of active players dropping drastically http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Soon we'll hit 5k players.. That's a different thread, literally. EVE's health is not in a place where those who love it can rejoice. If you believe those charts (and I do), eve continuously increased in numbers until about 2011. Since 2011, its been a slow burn with players bleeding away. There was a spike of interest in 2013 or so, but since then the loss in players appear to be accelerating, with our numbers down to about 2008 levels. It has to be asked, since 2011, what is it that has caused the players to leave. IMO, its plain that CCP lost its way and have been steadily chipping away at what made eve great and/or unique, by trying to make the game more new user friendly and casual. Unfortunately "quality of life improvements" have frequently hurt more then they have helped. The icons are a prime example. While maybe well intentioned, the icons are just another straw on the camels back, pushing folk to leave the game. Maybe there is no great exodus, but all the dribs and drabs have added up with CCP seemingly unable to come to grips with how to stop the tide. Having invested a fair amount of time in the game, its kind sad seeing it bleed from all the cuts. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 580	Posted - 2015.06.22 18:11:23 - [260] - Quote SamuraiJack wrote: PAPULA wrote: GankYou wrote: It was 33k this Sunday and 28k on Friday. That's very low, normally it was at least 54k during friday or sunday. It hasnt been 50k since 2014. Its at most 30k most weekends since about april this year and thats only for a few hours. For me when I log in (USA prime time), this whole last week has been 18-19k with one day (Sat) spike into the low 20s. Didnt used to be like that. Yet more and more, I talk to folk and if its not jump fat that's keeping them logged out, its icons or something else that CCP recently boloxed up. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Dersen Lowery Defy. 1656	Posted - 2015.06.22 19:36:57 - [261] - Quote This is the most troubling part of the blog for me: CCP Surge wrote: EVE UI has always been designed with pixel-perfect accuracy at its core. And when we decided to introduce a UI scaling option for accessibility reasons, we did it for the sake of giving people options to customize their UI, yet with the known tradeoff of knowing the texture scaling would create less than ideal-looking experiences in certain situations. It was by sheer luck that up until now most of the other issues created at 90% happened to be manageable, but the new bracket icons were so gameplay-critical that it made for a step back in usability for those playing at 90% scale. Emphasis is mine. Accessibility isn't a checkbox feature, it's an approach to design. You don't implement features for accessibility reasons, you design for accessibility, top to bottom, soup to nuts, bumper to bumper, etc. You didn't, and now it's blowing up in your face. (Your other mistake, by the way, was putting a feature in game--90% scaling--and then assuming that nobody would use it. In the absence of hard data, you should always assume that people are relying on anything you offer as an option.) The proper takeaway from this, coming from someone who likes the new icons (and who has good enough vision, full color fidelity, a large monitor, and who runs the UI at 100%), is that you need to go back and run them through a design process that takes UI scaling and other accessibility issues into account. Either change the icons or change the scaling algorithm, or both if necessary. I know you guys have a policy that you release things into the wild a bit early and then refine them through iteration, but accessibility doesn't work that way. If you take a step backward on accessibility you deprive some of your players of the ability to play the game for no good reason until you get around to iterating. This isn't like kicking the Ishtar around. Mistakes here are costly and embarrassing, and it hurts me to see you making them. Please do it right. Please design everything and test everything for accessibility. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. I voted in CSM X!
Jared Tobin Bloodstone Industries B.S.I. 234	Posted - 2015.06.22 21:16:37 - [262] - Quote Phew.... OK, I've spent several weeks now, and I've assembled enough notes to hopefully give SOME constructive feedback for the moment. Due to the length (or response limitation that seems to be buggy), this may be a 2-parter. If so, I can split it into "immediate first/lasting impressions and POS/Ships issues". The second part would be "objects, identification/recog and possibly help CCP's solvency of the Overview/Icon issues": First: There is an apparent inconsistency with the POS "arrays" and labs, which, since the POS changes last year, have taken on a similarity in function yet: - The Reprocessing Array looks like and upsidedown Freighter (or a couch) - The Compression Array looks more reasonably like it's compressing something BUT it has no conenction to visually associating anything to do with minerals/rocks/ice when you compare it to the Reprocessing Array (see above) - The Assembly Array looks like an unfinised (not a solid object) icon (or a jellyfish) - Then there's the Moon Mining Array (octopus?) which lacks any connection to the other arrays that seem to hold som similarity (method of madness): Shield/Shield Maint Arrays and Jump Portal Array, though that bares odd similarity to a Jump Portal Array - The Mobile Labs, however, "look" like solid objects in space, but it looks different from the rest of the "mostly" square-ish POS icons of non-weapon significance (or, oddly, I seriously "see" an open frog's mouth) - Then there are the "Hangars" (personal and Corp) which are solid objects that seem like some kind of logic connection to the iconography of hangars in stations (in the Neocom), BUT if these are to follow the idea that all "solid" enclosures that can hold "stuff" in them, then there is a major disconnect with icons that are not fully "closed". Much like the strange Assembly Array (jellyfish), you also have Silos and Coupling "arrays" which are technically solid objects able to also hold things (like the hangars and mobile labs do) but lack a closed border. In fact, the similarity of Silos and coupling arrays seem reminiscient of wide-based laboratory beakers, which ironically appears to BE the ACTUAL icon for "Mobile Reactors"... am I the only one seeing a disconnect" and yet my brain "wants to connect" the symbology of those objects? The Dev responses and the somewhat curt "Dev Blog" seem to insist on an idea of connection and understanding, yet I (like many other players I have discussed this with in-game) agree there is a "lack of symbolic cohesion". The biggest example are SHIP icons: IF the logic is intended that ALL solid objects that are SHIPS (that carry pilots) are supposed to be object outlines (whether shaded or not), then why are these exceptions: - Rookie Ships" are shaped like a military "Private" rank symbol, not a shape. - YET: Titans "look" like a military "Corporal" rank symbol, BUT it has physicality that outlines both "up-pointing lines". - Shuttles also fall oddly under the "Private" rank symbol, slightly, with no outlined "mass" to them, and yet a simple capsule actually has an outline of shape. Aside from that, all ships appear to have "mass" through the use of "outlined shapes", but then why does a dreadnaught actually look like a spaceship (it has wings in its symbol) while all other ships look like upside down police badges of some sort? Any why do mining/industrial ships look like an evolution from a candy bar to a school bus to a monorail (Freighter/Capital Industrial)? Then there's the unexplainable RE-USE of the "(now) old" Mobile Depot now used for Frigates and Destroyers? Honestly, I believe that some of the "problems" us users are having with "recgonition" vs "adaptation" is akin to telling us to learn and use a completely new alphabet which all the "letters" look unlike anything we've seen... EXCEPT one or two that are identical from the old alphabet. This example applies to common confusions I've been witnessing from other players: The "is that the old Mobile Depot or a Frigate?" and the "is it an old wreck or a Destroyer near me?" If you are going to completely re-design ALL icons, then for a successfully complete change for intended adaptation, one would require a very basic graphic design rule: NEVER re-use any old (or similar) symbols if you're going to grpahically redo an entire "graphic symbology set". An additional aside of "similarity at a glance" are, oddly, the "why do I see Station symbols "tilted" as symbols for Carriers?"... I oddly didn't expect that response from some fellow players, but then I had a look at the graphic set layout and thought: Hmm... they do have a point. And the point is second-guessing when literally "seconds count" in quick decision making. (OK, that was part 1 of 2)...
Jared Tobin Bloodstone Industries B.S.I. 234	Posted - 2015.06.22 21:17:47 - [263] - Quote Part 2 of 2: Then there is the issue of all these shapes thrown in with way too many drones with different shapes that are, technically, similar to the wash of new ship icons, but have no real "connected" distinction between "SHIP" or "DRONE" determinations. Drones are a wide spectrum of similarities: Logistics looks similar to Industrial Command shape. Fighter/Fighter Bomber have upside down Frigate/Destroyer similarities, which also are basing off ove the old wrecks and old Mobile Depot shapes. Sentry, E-Warfare and Salvage drones have no similarities to the rest of the drones' symbology set, and that also introduces more comfusion for "at quick glance" Overview interpretation. I'm also baffled by the not-so-perfectly circular shapes used for Stargates and yet the symbol to click on to "Warp To And Jump" is a perfect circle with an arrow: two completely disconnected symbols. Ironically, stargates in the overview are also (unlike their "Warp To And Jump" counterpart sybol, are fully shaded outlines. According to your "new icon logic" in previous descriptions, the idea of shaded outlines was for solid objects or structures which they are not because (compared to planets, moons, rocks, ice, stations, ships and custom offices, to name a few) they are actually things you can "fly through". (Some aren't even fully connected pieces in certain regions.) I can think of many other issues to mention, but those were some of the big "realms of discussion" to consider while trying to go back to the drawing board to "adjust" your new icon set to help resolve some confusion. (And apparently it did need to take up 2 posts.. Sorry, but you want responsive feedback, here ya go.) I also connot stress enough the need for color and/or "thickness". One BIG example I'm way to confused about, even after several weeks is simply: Who are actual players versus CONCORD versus "Navy Command" vessels (which are just NPC Police....?). Yeah, this overview still needs alot of attention. If I could even have the ability to color code those ships myself, I'd be able to focus on the real ships near me, regardless of their odd shape differences. Actually, pragmatically: Colorization for personal identification would also come in handy for the Red/Green AND Violet-Blind "partial color-blindness" playerbase. THICKNESS of iconography would also help even the rarer set of "total color blind" players without loss of them as customers (and it'd help us spectrum receptive players to identify NPCs and drones from actual player ships in space). I hope this helps serve as a productive set of feedback, instead of just skimming over me as another "I don't like the new icons, give me back the old". Don't get me wrong, I'd really like that option for mission and quick battle scenarios, but in the spirit of change, I'm hoping these points may help understand the "overview needs" that some of us more in-depth players need/want for what we pay for. Thank you for your attention.
Tara Eves Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2015.06.22 22:39:31 - [264] - Quote Jared Tobin wrote: ....stuff.... Thank you for your attention. JT tl;dr
The Hunter Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2015.06.23 00:08:49 - [265] - Quote good old ccp, washing their hands of the situation and not caring about what most people say. Maybe if they ignore the problem it will go away
Joia Crenca Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 172	Posted - 2015.06.23 00:35:18 - [266] - Quote Tara Eves wrote: Jared Tobin wrote: ....stuff.... Thank you for your attention. JT tl;dr I'd say it was very worth reading. Hopefully for CCP, but unfortunately, its an example of the really well put together analyses that haven't been well considered by them. But Jared Tobin, this kind of writing example would serve you well in any forum, gaming, professional or otherwise. Thanks again!
Jared Tobin Bloodstone Industries B.S.I. 244	Posted - 2015.06.23 06:30:47 - [267] - Quote Joia Crenca wrote: Tara Eves wrote: Jared Tobin wrote: ....stuff.... Thank you for your attention. JT tl;dr I'd say it was very worth reading. Hopefully for CCP, but unfortunately, its an example of the really well put together analyses that haven't been well considered by them. But Jared Tobin, this kind of writing example would serve you well in any forum, gaming, professional or otherwise. Thanks again! Thank you, Joia Crenca. Indeed, I seriously don't mind (though don't understand) people simply "replying" as if to me to let me know what I wrote was "too long" that they "didn't read". It wasn't at all intended, nor necessary, for anyone to read, except the CCP Employees, Devs/Programmers and the CCP Employers themselves. That's what "feedback" is for, and I certainly want to tell them all I could after "giving it some time" instead of broken up chunks amounting to 20+ reactionary "posts" of immediacy across hundreds of pages. But after 7+ years of iterations since "Trinity", I've witness and played through both brilliantly implemented advents forward, and equally disappointing setbacks and mistakes. I'm beginning to find it more difficult to keep pushing forward with the ever-changing business model paths which CCP's EVE has been moving, even in this decade alone. This game's iconography cannot remain in the current state it is in... It's hard to function on many industrial and flight oriented levels, and I haven't even fully delved into other realms that seem affected as well. I just hope someone at CCP reads my feedback and passes it along. Thank you, though, for the encouraging words to not give up constructive examination and scrutiny for the sake of cohesive feedback for the betterment of EVE as a whole. Your move, CCP.
Blue Harrier 201	Posted - 2015.06.23 07:44:59 - [268] - Quote Something I thought of regarding the new icons and the amount of GÇÿclutterGÇÖ when in space due to the amount of icons now visible when undocked. At the moment just about every icon for every item on grid (and in some cases beyond) is displayed when in space. This is fine as we can right click an icon and GÇÿadd to overviewGÇÖ so they are displayed in the overview. So, how about if we had a tick box to reverse this and only displayed icons that are selected in the current overview tab? Then we could have a sort of GÇÿdisplay everythingGÇÖ or GÇÿdisplay only overview iconsGÇÖ when in space. This could also be enhanced further by adding a GÇÿshiftGÇÖ tick box to allow shifting from one set of 5 tabs to a second set. Would anything like this help or am I just shooting rainbows? "You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
Orm Magnustat Red Serpent Industries 86	Posted - 2015.06.23 08:26:19 - [269] - Quote Blue Harrier wrote: Something I thought of regarding the new icons and the amount of GÇÿclutterGÇÖ when in space due to the amount of icons now visible when undocked. At the moment just about every icon for every item on grid (and in some cases beyond) is displayed when in space. This is fine as we can right click an icon and GÇÿadd to overviewGÇÖ so they are displayed in the overview. So, how about if we had a tick box to reverse this and only displayed icons that are selected in the current overview tab? Then we could have a sort of GÇÿdisplay everythingGÇÖ or GÇÿdisplay only overview iconsGÇÖ when in space. This could also be enhanced further by adding a GÇÿshiftGÇÖ tick box to allow shifting from one set of 5 tabs to a second set. Would anything like this help or am I just shooting rainbows? Thats definitly something to think about - when i look out of my ships windowpane I too feel that "empty space" became horribly cluttered these past years. And those new ship icons make it a lot worse, as they have a much more penetrant and attention grabbing design than before. (in worst cases you get the feel of playing some old 80s 2D arcade - asteroids, anyone?)
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 61	Posted - 2015.06.23 09:47:55 - [270] - Quote Blue Harrier wrote: Something I thought of regarding the new icons and the amount of GÇÿclutterGÇÖ when in space due to the amount of icons now visible when undocked. At the moment just about every icon for every item on grid (and in some cases beyond) is displayed when in space. This is fine as we can right click an icon and GÇÿadd to overviewGÇÖ so they are displayed in the overview. So, how about if we had a tick box to reverse this and only displayed icons that are selected in the current overview tab? Then we could have a sort of GÇÿdisplay everythingGÇÖ or GÇÿdisplay only overview iconsGÇÖ when in space. This could also be enhanced further by adding a GÇÿshiftGÇÖ tick box to allow shifting from one set of 5 tabs to a second set. Would anything like this help or am I just shooting rainbows? This is already possible. If you configured your Overview correctly with a bunch of presets, you can simple chose to show brackets of your preset. For instance if you made a "ennemy drones only" preset and you right click -> load preset to Brackets, it will only show the ennely drones bracket in space, no station brackets, no gate brackets, nothing except what you chose to show in your Overview. So you can have 2series of "presets" one serie for the overview itself, and another one specific for brackets.

Blue Harrier 202	Posted - 2015.06.23 10:21:06 - [271] - Quote Thank you, I thought it was possible but damned if I could remember how, I knew you had a key combo to turn all brackets on/off but forgot about the GÇÿLoad bracketsGÇÖ in the overview. Perhaps they should change it to GÇÿDisplay IconsGÇÖ now lol. Thanks again I will have a play on SiSi and see if it helps with my colour blind problems and not seeing the incoming hostiles. "You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 62	Posted - 2015.06.23 11:34:11 - [272] - Quote Blue Harrier wrote: Thank you, I thought it was possible but damned if I could remember how, I knew you had a key combo to turn all brackets on/off but forgot about the GÇÿLoad bracketsGÇÖ in the overview. Perhaps they should change it to GÇÿDisplay IconsGÇÖ now lol. Thanks again I will have a play on SiSi and see if it helps with my colour blind problems and not seeing the incoming hostiles. Do not take that personally, but i think that your post is an example of "un-taught" capacity of the Overview, that leads to "un-adaptability" and hate towerds those changes. I'm not saying ALL haters can't set their Overview properly, i think that for some people it might be the issue, not the icones them-selves. Let us know when you've done your tests if it changed anything about your sight problems.
Cholly Chi Acme Entropy 4	Posted - 2015.06.26 17:26:13 - [273] - Quote I'm all for the idea, but would make one suggestion (which is probably too late now, alas...): switch the BC symbol with the BS symbol. Battle Cruisers are slighter and faster, and I think the chevron better implies this symbolically, whereas the blockier, square-backed symbol implies the stolid presence of a Battleship. As well, some little added marker to distinguish non-t1 hulls would be sweet! And a pony...
Orm Magnustat Red Serpent Industries 107	Posted - 2015.06.27 22:05:50 - [274] - Quote Cholly Chi wrote: I'm all for the idea, but would make one suggestion (which is probably too late now, alas...): switch the BC symbol with the BS symbol. Battle Cruisers are slighter and faster, and I think the chevron better implies this symbolically, whereas the blockier, square-backed symbol implies the stolid presence of a Battleship. ......... Sounds reasonable when Cholly explains it that way. But most of all it highlights how subjective and random the new icons actually are - such an argumentation was not even possible within the old system.^^ Talking about intuitive design ..... I support though the call for ponies - but please make it a full range of horsies, from fluffy Shetland ponies to heavy cart horses.
The Hunter Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2015.06.29 03:13:19 - [275] - Quote maybe you might want to change back your icons on the overview, server down to 18k people and dropping. Times ticking and people are leaving... change overview back and make people happy or lose more customers- and just think of all the other mmo's out there that have learned from your mistakes
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 31973	Posted - 2015.06.29 09:34:02 - [276] - Quote A big problem with icons is they don't change size with distance. We can swivel the camera, sure, but icons are a full-time orthographic projection. Why? When depth information is lost, the viewport becomes a minimap. Don't you think it's a problem we can't properly perceive a cluster of icons unless we swivel the camera? I'm not saying it would solve all problems, but it would be an improvement in awareness. If icons made use of depth we would begin to perceive clouds of icons, not just walls. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
Dersen Lowery Scanners Live in Vain 1678	Posted - 2015.06.30 14:27:45 - [277] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: A big problem with icons is they don't change size with distance. We can swivel the camera, sure, but icons are a full-time orthographic projection. Why? When depth information is lost, the viewport becomes a minimap. Don't you think it's a problem we can't properly perceive a cluster of icons unless we swivel the camera? They're small to begin with, so at the ranges EVE deals with they would retreat into "my aging eyes can't see that" pretty quickly. You could scale the scaling, but then you'd risk hitting the "my aging eyes can't see the difference," or running headlong into blurriness or aliasing issues. Then, you still have one of the more unfortunate side effects of the icons, that you don't see all of those pretty models unless they're close enough that they have no hope of tracking you. I'm wondering if what EVE actually needs is several different UIs to cope with different scenarios, like a "battle overview" UI for FCs. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. I voted in CSM X!
Orm Magnustat Red Serpent Industries 113	Posted - 2015.06.30 15:32:17 - [278] - Quote Dersen Lowery wrote: ................................................ I'm wondering if what EVE actually needs is several different UIs to cope with different scenarios, like a "battle overview" UI for FCs. Did anybody ever wonder about that question, before this useless (and unasked for) update?
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 31986	Posted - 2015.06.30 15:49:59 - [279] - Quote The best thing would be mods, player-made. That would never happen with EVE, but a realistic way to incorporate that type of creative freedom is CCP-made mods. Skyrim is still beautiful due to mods, to the point that it doesn't need an official remaster. Three years after the last update, Skyrim is still this... living, breathing, organic thing. With a subscription game like EVE, that type of longevity should be its bread and butter. EVE would evolve at an amazing pace if CCP was willing to run development this way, as keepers of the mods. Players would be happy if they had the freedom to enable different mods. Even though I'd like to, I can't and don't know how to mod EVE... I'd have to learn how it works and I hear the underpinnings of EVE are not in great shape. But CCP knows how to do these things. A selection of mods would be well worth the price of playing. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
D'Lest De'Kranken State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.30 16:48:24 - [280] - Quote My one acct and one PLEX'd training alt expires in 6 hous due to this change. Can't see and don't like being kicked in the teeth, and laughed at by a Dev, because of it. The arrogance of this whole situation beggars belief. Respect for those who stick it out to see if it changes. I understand your love of the game because I love what I can do here...even if it's just piddling around getting new ships and skills. But I'll be GD'd if I pay a company to laugh at me and tell me f... off. Respects all..see you again in a heartbeat if they fix this.

Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 72	Posted - 2015.06.30 16:52:36 - [281] - Quote [I'm an old player considering whether to start actively playing again] I haven't read through every page yet. However, just looking at the feedback devblog: "we wanted to increase the skill ceiling of reading the grid at a glance, so that players who learned the expanded set of icons had a distinct battlefield advantage." Really? One of the goals is to deliberately make the overview harder to understand?! Surely the point of the overview is to make it easier to understand. "Ships (Triangular) Structures (Rectangular) Celestial Bodies (circular)" Ok, I could understand that. Except not all ships are triangular! The example just below in the devblog shows a diamond carrier and a (basically) diamond customs office. What do I want the overview to tell me about the surroundings? Is something shooting at me? If so, is it small big or huge? If not, I have time to look more thoroughly.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 31990	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:12:26 - [282] - Quote I'm staying subbed because that's the leveling mechanic. My hope is to wake up to an awesome, popular EVE one day. I still have five years to go before my characters hit 200 million SP, so. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
Bad Bobby Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust 913	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:38:40 - [283] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I'm staying subbed because that's the leveling mechanic. My hope is to wake up to an awesome, popular EVE one day. I too, am banking on this.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 31992	Posted - 2015.06.30 18:00:57 - [284] - Quote A Bad Bobby like made my day and it's not even noon Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
Vila eNorvic 59	Posted - 2015.06.30 20:09:29 - [285] - Quote Axl Borlara wrote: Except not all ships are triangular! And not all triangles are ships (e.g. beacons).
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2015.07.01 03:25:28 - [286] - Quote Jessica Serrato wrote: Well, 2 account cancelled.....wonder if they going to get the point. I cited the development blog and CCP Surge as the reason. I might come back if changes are made and CCP Surge offers an apology for that post, maybe. I cited the icons in all three of mine, CCP will never apologize for a mistake, never have and never will.
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2015.07.01 03:39:34 - [287] - Quote Dangeresque Too wrote: PAPULA wrote: Cleanse Serce wrote: CCP won't go back, deal with it. Then i will not come back to game anymore, deal with it, and no you can't have my stuff, let it dust in stations. Yuppers, 3 accounts here that aren't renewing and expire within a month... and I'm keeping my hundreds of billions to make quite a dust bunny farm as well, maybe eventually I'll have dust dragons... Maybe we can coordinate stations so our dust farms can hang out? Two of mine are already gone, this one has a few more days and I'll probably never re-sub any of my accounts again, CCP has pretty much killed my play style with some of the changes over the past year and the icon changes pushed me over the top so may as well quit. I'm not far from 100 bill in ISK between all my accounts not counting 2 supers and a titan on holding toons that have not been subbed in years. Also ROLL BACK.!
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2015.07.01 03:41:26 - [288] - Quote Lisa Gentilette wrote: Probably said but I'm so disappointed: this was NOT the dev blog I was looking for. You TOTALLY IGNORED the complaints by those with a visual handicap. Being it colour blindness or bad eye sight. And then this is downright condescending and insulting to your loyal customers: CCP wrote: As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGÇª Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed. It's good to read that you feel this is all a big fat joke to you. I can only respond to this in one way, 2 accounts down, this one to follow. I'm with ya man, three of mine will be gone in a few days as well.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 31998	Posted - 2015.07.01 06:45:02 - [289] - Quote About the mods, and the overview. It might bother some people that a mod gives them a different experience from others who don't use one, etc. The information in the overview in particular is ripe, begging, for something to be done with it. It's raw telemetry that is vomited out onto a table... raw. If the client is openly displaying that information, what's the problem with integrating it into a mod that is more expressive. Shouldn't that happen with raw data anyway? Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 2865	Posted - 2015.07.01 08:07:29 - [290] - Quote I would ask for the 'stuff' of the folks leaving forever but I figure they are mad and don't wish to donate to Operation Magic School Bus which is made to help the new players coming in at the moment others are storming out the door. Rollback is probably not going to happen. Simplification and logic for the new icons and refinement will. That is what sort of feedback I can take to them. But good on you for citing why you quit when you quit. It does help those of us who stubbornly stay behind, believe it or not. Icons is not over, not yet. Not in my books. But if you absolutely positively are LEAVING, I am not asking for your stuff for my own profit but for helping the new players. m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯

Ahed Sten 52	Posted - 2015.07.01 08:14:04 - [291] - Quote Quote: Simplification and logic for the new icons and refinement will. Maybe it's because it's 5am and I've been awake all night, or maybe I'm not the only one that finds this statement vague. Elaborate please.
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 2865	Posted - 2015.07.01 08:43:46 - [292] - Quote Ahed Sten wrote: Quote: Simplification and logic for the new icons and refinement will. Maybe it's because it's 5am and I've been awake all night, or maybe I'm not the only one that finds this statement vague. Elaborate please. Nah, It is late here as well so likely I was less than clear. If there is an overlap that makes it counter intuitive or breaks the patterns then it needs to be fixed. Say a beacon that looks like a ship or drones not instantly identifiable as such, that sort of thing. That breaks the logic and is easily argued convincingly. m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Ahed Sten 52	Posted - 2015.07.01 16:15:48 - [293] - Quote Quote: Say a beacon that looks like a ship or drones not instantly identifiable as such, that sort of thing. That breaks the logic and is easily argued convincingly. Ok. I don't think that the issue here is determining whether or not there are inconsistencies in the icons. Many posters before me have shown that not all the icons follow the strict formula of [Triangles for ships, rectangles for structures and circles for celestials.] How does a diamond look like a triangle? Unfortunately what it all comes down to is subjective opinion. You may agree that the icons are fine while I may not. If CCP was willing to make changes to the problem icons, how do they begin to go about gathering the information necessary to make said changes? What icons do they change? What do they change them to? Do they speak to their CSM members? Do they take a forum poll? If there were to be any changes made, I would assume that the decision to act would be decided on how much of the Eve playerbase actually wants a change. Neither of the two options listed above would provide accurate statistics, as in either case, they'd be canvassing opinions from a very small majority of the community; those that despise the new icons, and have gone out of their way to make their opinions heard, either by posting here on the forums or by bringing it to your attention. Nothing short of an in-game poll would provide the "Yay/Nay" feedback required to make this happen, and that's only to determine who actually likes or dislikes the icons. The process of conceptualizing a better set of icons and implementing it into the game would require yet more work. So aside from posting about how dissatisfied we are on the forums, aside from asking for rollbacks or the ability to customize our own Overview, (which would solve everyone's problems for the next decade,) how do you propose we proceed? I'm all for due process, but if we actually knew what that due process was it might make it easier to go about this in a constructive manner. Presently we're all just doing the only thing we know how to do, which is the only thing that CCP has enabled us to do: Whine on the forums. To be completely clear, despite my asking for it I don't expect a rollback. This issue seems to have generated a fraction of the tears that the jump changes did and nobody got anywhere back then, either. It's a shame, really. CCP is a business that can rightfully [legally] make their own business decisions, but they should be accountable to their playerbase. Whether or not these changes are wanted by the majority of the playerbase is not something I can comment on, but I don't realistically see them making an effort to get this information. I'm hoping that they'll surprise me.
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 475	Posted - 2015.07.01 19:22:48 - [294] - Quote Ahed Sten wrote: To be completely clear, despite my asking for it I don't expect a rollback. This issue seems to have generated a fraction of the tears that the jump changes did and nobody got anywhere back then, either. It's a shame, really. They are slightly different ways of making people not want to play the game. Jump changes took away a type of game play, where people could find another theoretically. The UI changes remove the ability to play the game at all for some people. Regardless of where you stand on the jump changes, its still a better rationale to try and edit one play style to try and make another one viable, i.e you cant play your way, rather than just essentially blanket disabling the UI for people with less than perfect sight, and saying you cant play at all. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Diablo Vertias Fenrir's Dogs of War 0	Posted - 2015.07.02 00:03:30 - [295] - Quote The icons on the overview , now are alot more confusing but , can adopt to em , but what i can't adopt to is the icons for the ship wreacks , as i can't see the damned diffrence between a empthy ship wreack , or a full one . the icons are simply way way to small . in that area of all the icon's the old one's there where a helleva lot better then the new one's are , those 2 icons are the only one's i whould like to have changed back to old , as iv got to sit whit my face frikking 1 cm away from screen to see the diffrence between em , and whit the old , one that wasen't a problem . the other icons ill prolly learn to adopt to sooner or later . thats all iv got to say , so Good old CCP be as kind as to atleast change the ship wreack icon's bk . to the old , i dont wanna go blind , or get some other odd eye condition . due to haveing to sit whit my face in the screen. thx.
Ahed Sten 52	Posted - 2015.07.02 02:11:37 - [296] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: Ahed Sten wrote: To be completely clear, despite my asking for it I don't expect a rollback. This issue seems to have generated a fraction of the tears that the jump changes did and nobody got anywhere back then, either. It's a shame, really. They are slightly different ways of making people not want to play the game. Jump changes took away a type of game play, where people could find another theoretically. The UI changes remove the ability to play the game at all for some people. Regardless of where you stand on the jump changes, its still a better rationale to try and edit one play style to try and make another one viable, i.e you cant play your way, rather than just essentially blanket disabling the UI for people with less than perfect sight, and saying you cant play at all. I agree with you. Maybe I used a bad example to illustrate my point, but what I meant was that there have been compelling reasons to make changes or rollbacks many times in the past, either over game mechanics or UI changes, and CCP just sat there twiddling their thumbs giving us the same old "Eve is a harsh, unforgiving place" bullshit line that they periodically throw out there in place of a "**** you."
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 122	Posted - 2015.07.02 04:01:56 - [297] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: I would ask for the 'stuff' of the folks leaving forever but I figure they are mad and don't wish to donate to Operation Magic School Bus which is made to help the new players coming in at the moment others are storming out the door. Rollback is probably not going to happen. Simplification and logic for the new icons and refinement will. That is what sort of feedback I can take to them. But good on you for citing why you quit when you quit. It does help those of us who stubbornly stay behind, believe it or not. Icons is not over, not yet. Not in my books. But if you absolutely positively are LEAVING, I am not asking for your stuff for my own profit but for helping the new players. m I am 99% sure I'm gone for good, my play style has been wrecked by CCP as I mainly enjoy cap/super/titan pvp and since I can't move my ships to other locations as needed they have been setting collecting space dust from frustration. There have been other changes that hurt my play style as well but I held on hoping things would get better for players like myself but to date they have only gotten worse, the icon changes that taunt people like myself that have bad eyesight was the deal breaker (yes I gave feedback on sisi about how bad they are but all feedback was ignored), I haven't really played Eve much since CCP broke my play style anyway so I'll put my 45 bux a month towards other games. New players could not set in most of my ships so I'm not giving them to anybody who has to train for years to pilot them correctly, I have already given away billions to good friends that I have made in this game (you know who you are!), as well as all of my carriers and PLEX, I'm holding onto all of my collectors ships/stuff and my BPO collection as I may give my son an account or two when he gets old enough to understand the game (if Eve lasts that long and if he really wants to play). I've decided to keep the two 200+ mill SP toons and the three super/titan holding toons to give to my boy on spread out special occasions that has yet to be determined, I'm hoping he will enjoy Eve as much as I used too. I have loved playing Eve for over 12 years now and I know I'll miss it for sure but since there is no way I can play with those horrid icons I have no choice but leave.
Katana Seiko Made in Germany 8	Posted - 2015.07.02 10:29:27 - [298] - Quote Wait wait wait.. Did I just see that right? http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67311/1/cheatsheet.jpg NPC Titan!?
Orm Magnustat Red Serpent Industries 122	Posted - 2015.07.03 06:54:45 - [299] - Quote Alea wrote: ............................................ I have loved playing Eve for over 12 years now and I know I'll miss it for sure but since there is no way I can play with those horrid icons I have no choice but leave. It really pains me to read posts like this and look at CCP how they play with themselves, promoting change for changes sake and actually have no plan or path for a good portion of their players that actually carried the game for such a long time...
Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 45	Posted - 2015.07.03 17:55:53 - [300] - Quote Well one account is over in 3 days, the other is going to take another 54 Days......but I won't be renewing unless something major happens to fix this..... As far as the "This is still being tweaked" arguement.....2 things 1. You don't release something like this on the regular server if it still needs to be tweaked...helpful hint in tweaking....no one wants to try to decipher an icon from 100+ possiblities 2. Current state....its a turd.....and you can polish a turd all you want.....it still a turd

Freelancer117 So you want to be a Hero 293	Posted - 2015.07.03 22:20:08 - [301] - Quote Quote: Discussion about icons has been hot and heavy and and a new iteration is available on Sisi. Drones have been changed back to x's. There is now more differentiation between hostile NPC and friendly NPCs. For one, 'friendly' (neutral?) NPCs are now blue. Also NPCs are colored in while players are hollow. The colors have also been run through color blind filters. Give feedback. I took some shots from the test server. Source: http://www.lowseclifestyle.com/2015/06/csmx-post-16.html https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5830022#post5830022 Thank you Sugar Kyle, we are lucky to have you as The CSM X permanent member PS: to CCPgames try not to make bad game designs anymore beforehand, fully including the CSM X fully in the game design process is a must to prevent these dumb patches, and also iterate further on UI Scaling. The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans. http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Jack Mancetti Rennfeuer V.e.G.A. 62	Posted - 2015.07.04 13:52:35 - [302] - Quote "But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present." So i'll change my alt pilot to to unsubscribe the game and the main will follow if this icon crap going on , it's called merciless
Eke Patang Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 92	Posted - 2015.07.05 00:06:27 - [303] - Quote Just got a mail from ccp saying could the last one out please turn off the lights
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 724	Posted - 2015.07.06 11:49:12 - [304] - Quote http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-aegis Quote: All overview and bracket icons have now thicker line strokes. Friendly NPCs now have a blue tint The amount of drone icon groups have been simplified from 8 to 4. The overview and bracket icon for the Mobile Depot has been changed. The overview and bracket icon for Wrecks has been changed. Should be a good change. ...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤ [WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Freighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Sbrodor Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation 153	Posted - 2015.07.06 15:43:25 - [305] - Quote /ignore and humiliate color blind people. your are doing it correctly.
CaCi-A 001Me State War Academy Caldari State 35	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:48:34 - [306] - Quote Quote: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback/ Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat. [...] we wanted to increase the skill ceiling of reading the grid at a glance [...] A clearer system for identifying different objects in space. Intended for veterans and newbies alike to be able to better read situations and assess threat levels. [...] http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-aegis The amount of drone icon groups have been simplified from 8 to 4. makes sense i don't play real life, the balancing sucks!
Ahed Sten 56	Posted - 2015.07.06 19:15:51 - [307] - Quote Quote: All overview and bracket icons have now thicker line strokes. Friendly NPCs now have a blue tint The amount of drone icon groups have been simplified from 8 to 4. The overview and bracket icon for the Mobile Depot has been changed. The overview and bracket icon for Wrecks has been changed. It's a start
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 643	Posted - 2015.07.06 19:37:14 - [308] - Quote Only real solution is a kill switch. They have a kill switch for Captain's Quarters, they have a kill switch for the map, why no kill switch for the icons as they are by far worse then CQ and the map combined. Let folk opt in/out as they feel fit - everybody is happy - or at least everybody except the dev(s) who was stuck working on another un-requested, unloved, deadend project. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Joe Gormley Nemo Modicus Group 24	Posted - 2015.07.06 23:55:21 - [309] - Quote The difference between a hostile NPC and Player with bad standings is still minimal.... So much for the aid to 'at a glance' situational awareness........
John Lawyer Legio X Latro Villore Accords 70	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:10:43 - [310] - Quote Oh, these new wrecks icons :((( Why to do different types of them? Now player's wreck looks like its empy wreck. Maybe graphical artists should play EVE a little bit to feel some 'immersion'.

Jessica Serrato Caldari Provisions Caldari State 48	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:56:46 - [311] - Quote John Lawyer wrote: Oh, these new wrecks icons :((( Why to do different types of them? Now player's wreck looks like its empy wreck. Maybe graphical artists should play EVE a little bit to feel some 'immersion'. Why?? Cause they need to make there mark on the game. Whatever they do they cannot admit that a bunch of ppl playing the game can tell them in 10 minutes that there last 6-10 b-weekly paychecks were a waste of resources. They cannot admit that in one forum post, they have gotten more and better ideas then a room full of people with degrees in game design, programming, and graphic arts. Lastly, they get to justify the next 6-12 months of paychecks fixing the issues cause by their own changes. Called job security.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 740	Posted - 2015.07.07 10:14:35 - [312] - Quote New Drone icons - http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/2aNo6BkceEqIA8kk6CcGss/122813e0ba08d4c5235cd7e9cb454f50/NewOverviewBrackets_Legend2.png ...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤ [WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Freighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Panterata BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm 338	Posted - 2015.07.07 10:23:16 - [313] - Quote As I see they didn't fix anything !!! all NPC/PVP icons are still different for all ships classes. Pathetic At least I hope to include customization for every icon
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 221	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:38:35 - [314] - Quote One more iteration and still awful. CCP please, kill that awful designer.
Red Deck The Tebo Corp 70	Posted - 2015.07.09 12:23:29 - [315] - Quote So... the drone icons have been adjusted in a reasonable way, I'd say ('cause they've been made very similar to what they used to look like ). I am afraid teal-tinting NPCs does not work too well for me... it's better than nothing, I suppose, but the problem is that the tint (as opposed to the lack of tint) draws my attention to the NPCs rather than to player ships (while it should be the other way round). Player ships sharing the (lack of) tint with structures, billboards, deployables, celestials, and whatnot is a pretty poor design. It should IMO be the other way round. Stuff that you do not need to care about beyond just knowing that "something" is there (and can e.g. decloak you) should have no tint. Player ships should have some kind of a tint (not teal, though, as that one looks "too friendly") so that their overview entries stand out immediately. The new wreck icons... oh, man... and I thought the "old new" wreck icons were bad... can't we have the old downward pointing triangle back? I don't think it would be philosophically conflicting with other icons (ship icons are generally upward pointing triangles or triangular shapes).
Panterata BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm 345	Posted - 2015.07.09 17:16:33 - [316] - Quote Copy - Paste (for 10 times) CCP Claymore So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 5000 ppl waiting more then a 4 weeks
Mira Stargazer Epic Warfare 59	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:42:41 - [317] - Quote CCP, the "at a glance" will maybe work for very active players once they learn, but not for the more casual players because they will probably never learn enough to reach "at a glance awareness". The answer? Less is more!! Maybe not all the way back to the old overview brackets, but I think you have to take one step back. I have feelings, I can smile - and murder while!
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 484	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:59:11 - [318] - Quote So a few lines got slightly more contrast, and a bunch of drone icons were essentially rolled back but with new art. Still terrible. I can now tell a drone from a ship (sometimes), which is an improvement from before, but we are still no where near as good as the old icons were. Player ships and NPC ships should NEVER be just a color or shade away from each other. They are totally and discretely different things as the game is now. When is full customization going to be a thing? I will give a hearty laugh of vindication when many players revert them to the old way. There was literally nothing wrong with the old icon scheme - it was brilliant. At the very least we are one icon closer to the old way, so thanks for that at least. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai 3795	Posted - 2015.07.09 22:24:06 - [319] - Quote I am still having issues with "yellow" brackets at the overview. They are too faint to be told easily from the "white" brackets. I find kinda strange that now I can't miss every last NPC entity I come across, whereas wrecks I should not touch and gates I want to jump through are just barely visible. Maybe my priorities don't match that of the UI design, but seriously, I wish my selected jump gates were as visible as CONCORD. 73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
Tavin Aikisen Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 358	Posted - 2015.07.10 10:31:13 - [320] - Quote So tired of change for the sake of change with this game. Stop trying to re-invent EVE online all the time and give me back the original overview icons! I didn't ask for these new ones! These overview icon changes are not good... "Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home." -Cold Wind

Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 320	Posted - 2015.07.10 23:13:34 - [321] - Quote Just let me use the old square brackets for players, those looked more professional than chevrons houses and triangles.
Trix Hathorr Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.07.11 01:55:37 - [322] - Quote Being a developer myself for another MMO, I will give a tip of advice; Do not run over your older playerbase for the sake of doing so. Been there, done that. They are the ones who got you where you are today.
Rio Bravo Volition Cult The Volition Cult 69	Posted - 2015.07.11 06:51:47 - [323] - Quote Well, I am back to say 'Meh'... I still like the new Icons, the redone new wreck Icon still looks good, but second place to the first Wreck Icon re-do. I guess it helps our blind players feel their way across the screen better... You think people would appreciate it but they don't. They still rage about the new icons even after CCP changed it for the frothier players that might do themselves in if CCP didn't listen to them. I still like the icons. The new blue color shading on station NPC's will be a big help to those of us in Kindergarten, that still need assistance understanding the world around us. The wreck icon second prize is still better than the old...nothing wrong with the silver medal I suppose. +1 CCP GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Panterata BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm 347	Posted - 2015.07.14 14:36:52 - [324] - Quote Rio Bravo wrote: Well, I am back to say 'Meh'... I still like the new Icons, the redone new wreck Icon still looks good, but second place to the first Wreck Icon re-do. I guess it helps our blind players feel their way across the screen better... You think people would appreciate it but they don't. They still rage about the new icons even after CCP changed it for the frothier players that might do themselves in if CCP didn't listen to them. I still like the icons. The new blue color shading on station NPC's will be a big help to those of us in Kindergarten, that still need assistance understanding the world around us. The wreck icon second prize is still better than the old...nothing wrong with the silver medal I suppose. +1 CCP (facepalm)
Dan Seavey Allier Seavy Acquisitions 28	Posted - 2015.07.14 21:03:35 - [325] - Quote Panterata wrote: Rio Bravo wrote: Well, I am back to say 'Meh'... I still like the new Icons, the redone new wreck Icon still looks good, but second place to the first Wreck Icon re-do. I guess it helps our blind players feel their way across the screen better... You think people would appreciate it but they don't. They still rage about the new icons even after CCP changed it for the frothier players that might do themselves in if CCP didn't listen to them. I still like the icons. The new blue color shading on station NPC's will be a big help to those of us in Kindergarten, that still need assistance understanding the world around us. The wreck icon second prize is still better than the old...nothing wrong with the silver medal I suppose. +1 CCP (facepalm) I thought you were rage quitting over Icon gate. Glad to see you still involved Panties! I'm glad CCP took the time to color certain icons that were giving those with vision issues a negative experience playing EVE. I'm also glad so many "Frothies" who were determined to bail on EVE are deciding to stick around and adapt to change and progress. Many thanks guys. Dan Honey Never Sleeps.
Sky Marshal Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two 83	Posted - 2015.07.14 23:13:07 - [326] - Quote When you break stuff who worked fine, it is not called "progress" but "regression". Still, the NPC are now in soft blue and it is a good step in the right direction. The new drones icons are also good as they are close of their previous state. It will make a battlefield less messy. Still, it is not enough. The wreck icon is still a failure. Seriously, restore the old one... And of course, I prefer squares for the ships. I guess I have to adapt... by forgetting the visual aspect of the game and rely more than before on the FC. At least I will think less while playing, I guess it is why it is called "progress".
Dangeresque Too Pistols for Pandas 249	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:01:10 - [327] - Quote Joe Gormley wrote: The difference between a hostile NPC and Player with bad standings is still minimal.... So much for the aid to 'at a glance' situational awareness........ But I thought the best way to increase situational awareness "at a glance" was to implement a form of "information overload"? Because making more types of icons and even having icons that bridge themselves between several different themes (square, round, triangle) makes everything quicker/easier and most importantly simpler to discern differences with.
Vivien Meally Des-Meisters-Lakaien Phoenix Company Alliance 73	Posted - 2015.07.17 11:01:46 - [328] - Quote After more that one month i found that new Overview Icons are really ... ****. Why do CPP do that? Will CCP freeze out alle Players from EVE?
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 32065	Posted - 2015.07.17 15:02:00 - [329] - Quote Icons are somewhat pleasant now, mostly due to the color backgrounds becoming semitransparent. What's still missing is distance information from size, due to the orthographic projection thing. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
Bradstone Caldari Advanced War Technologies 6	Posted - 2015.07.27 21:45:01 - [330] - Quote Been having an Eve break since coming back from Fanfest and come back to these tiny little red splodges on my overview. I don't have the best eye sight in the world and running eve on a screen higher then 1080p is really not working for me. I'm having to be inches from the screen just to see what icon is what. I miss the old system as I could just glance and know a cruiser from a battleship now I have to trust the tiny picture by clicking each NPC. Seriously CCP you have made eve unplayable for those of us who don't have the best eye sight on 1440p and above screens. I switched to my 1080p laptop and even on 120% UI I had to hold the laptop to my face at one point! -90/10 for the icons. Game unplayable. played for 15 min and had to give up.



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