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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
760
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:44:51 -
[61] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote: If your feedback is : "I don't like new icones, please change back to old ones, or at least give us an option to turn the old one on". Then i'm glad they don't listen to this.
It wasn't. it was a wall of technical analysis 2-3 pages long. |
Casey Ambraelle
EVE University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:48:16 -
[62] - Quote
Lady Gwendolyn Antollare wrote:Casey Ambraelle wrote:Maybe make the NPC's a solid filled icon instead of kinda filled as they currently are to give more distinction between players and NPC's?
EDIT: and a bigger clearer cheat sheet we can print or have as a pdf while we relearn all of them, even at expanded size the screen shot in the blog is still hard to actually see the icons. Rix Javix Icon Guide
Yes! Thank You! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3658
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:52:26 -
[63] - Quote
So you're listening again? Then I will say again that "yellow" icons are too faint and difficult to tell from "white" icons.
In matters of tiny objects, I don't need them to be "huh, a tiny wee bit yellow" but OH MY GOD IT'S FULL OF YELLOW!!
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Jessica Serrato
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:58:30 -
[64] - Quote
Quote:Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed.
But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present.
- CCP Surge
-I do not like the new icons and want the option to revert back to the old ones. This quote feels like a half-hearted apology that the dev team didn't test the new icons for the a scaling issues that are happening, nor listen for any player feedback about them. Rather they just pushed out the update without thinking. Now with so much negative feed back on it they issue a half-hearted apology with a big "F. YOU! If you don't like it or agree with us." Tacked on the end of it.
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
36
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:It wasn't. it was a wall of technical analysis 2-3 pages long.
Link ?
Jessica Serrato wrote:Now with so much negative feed back on it they issue a half-hearted apology with a big "F. YOU! If you don't like it or agree with us." Tacked on the end of it.
So much ? We only hear the ones complaining, the ones satisfied won't come to shout out their joy. Sadly. |
Freelancer117
so you want to be a Hero
287
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:03:10 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat.
Yeah rigth, If CCP was really fond of this than the distinction between icons would be based on agression state of the ship and it's owner.
So an player that has a GCC timer would have a big red cross instead of a white diamand for example, and for npc's other icons based on agression state would be needed. This way only half a dozen new icons should be learned not dozen as is at the moment.
You really messed up the UI and also convoluted instead of streamlined the new player experience here, this is a bad call CCP
Regards, a Freelancer
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
36
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:15:11 -
[67] - Quote
I think that the main issue comes from the fact that icones are now true icones, when they were only squares before. It was easier to tell if one line on Overview was a ship or a celestial / structure. Before = an wide box / square. After = true icone structure-like / celestial-like.
To ease the awareness would be to color the white icones to something more visible, like the standings we give to pilots. Like CCP colors the line for autopilot destination for instance, if it's possibly in yellow, it should be possible in any other color.
I used to leave neutrals completly blank for my Overview, i must admit that i had to turn "show neutral" for them to appear greyish so i can ease my recognition from celestials /structures.
This opens some customisations, like giving players more color option to set their standings. |
Jessica Serrato
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:18:37 -
[68] - Quote
Quote:So much ? We only hear the ones complaining, the ones satisfied won't come to shout out their joy. Sadly .
I would be thrilled if they would have come out with the option to set the icons yourself and keep the old as a default, somewhat like overview customization. They don't however, they put out a pile of junk and then tell us to deal with it.
I have seen several dev blogs done correctly and given a ton of praise because they are well thought out and well tested, but this junk looks like something that was in the beginning of development, put on the back burner due to lack of interest, then shoved into the expansion at the last minute to say they did something. Poor planning, poor playtesting, and poor development. |
Malachir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:48:25 -
[69] - Quote
Dear CCP,
As a player having a second attempt at playing with EVE, I have to say that the improvement in icons leaves much to be desired.
Whilst primarily a miner, I have been making moves to get into a more combat oriented role. However, since the change of icons, this has been put on hold due to identification and clutter issues.
I did have a long post in at this point, but I realised it was turning into a bit of a rant, but you already have many of them, so I decided to retry.
Whilst I understand that the management want to bring a new look to EVE, surely you want to have one that reflects the scope and awesomeness that this game is capable of, such as the background that surrounds this forum post. Instead, what you have done is to take a smart, futuristic looking user interface and proceeded to remove colour, style and then useabilty from it.
Perhaps you could answer the simple question - Does anyone involved in the user interface revamp actually play the game in Tranquility? Perhaps they are too busy trolling the forums to do so.
I await a devblog comment that treats the various concerns of many players, be they vocal or a silent majority, with the realisation that they care about this game, and want only the best for it.
Yours,
Thoughtful of Amarr.
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Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
17
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:50:17 -
[70] - Quote
Dear CCP Developers,
The devblog is really insulting and very immature.
Whatever big the idea is, yet it absolutely does not work as intended. Hundreds of players had already offered their constructive feedback and offered dozens of suggestions and options for your review. Grown up people might negotiate and find a compromise solution, like enabling the old set of icons while refining the new one, or allow players to load their custom sets. Unfortunately, your devblog does not offer any compromise to ease tension. That's sad. From my humble perception, you have convinced yourself the job is done well and trying to convince us, players that the new GÇ£fancyGÇ¥ icons are great. However that is not much easy, because, unlike you, we do play EVE Online. And we are trying to help you to make game better. The blind denial of all the alternatives normally leads to nowhere.
Technically speaking: the size of the overview sprite is to small to accommodate hundred easily distinguishable different glyphs, so it is possible to return to minimalistic concept or increase sprite size (which is not always a good option, because of the laptop 1366x768 fixed screens where even 90% UI scale seems to be too large). Overview strongly needs way more foreground and background colors. The ability to immediately distinguish between neutral player and neutral NPC is crucial.
Please, stop behaving like a capricious child. Good or bad, the new icons are still the issue, causing a massive protest. It's time to look for compromise to make players satisfied, instead of trolling like a kids.
Thanks. |
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beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
161
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:03:58 -
[71] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:This is what they think of the player-base apparently; easily-confused, bumbling around accidentally shooting the wrong thing. Agreed. Implying that icons are causing players to bumble around and shoot the wrong thing is highly insulting to our game-playing abilities.
CCP we are perfectly capable of shooting the wrong thing with or without your icons, thank you very much. |
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
458
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:05:40 -
[72] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:And i strongly suspect that this whole project was started as a make-work thing just to keep someone busy in the first place. it was not needed, it was not asked for, and they could not even deliver, and now whoever approved it is also in the firing line. SHAME.
So of course these guys are fighting tooth and nail for their jobs. Office politics, and to hell with customer satisfaction. This sounds scarily plausible tbh.
Edit: post above me gave me a good chuckle! |
Raist DB
Anglo American Exploration AddictClan
0
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:19:06 -
[73] - Quote
With many many players not liking the new icons, why do you shove them down their throats? At least give them the option to choose between new and old icons!
Apparently CCP likes pissin off the players.
In general it may be that people dont like change, but how would you like it if the sky were no longer blue?
Personally, I like that the new NPC icons appear brighter, but this also makes them look similar to the rest... on my screen anyway. Maybe they are too bright... or maybe its the fact that they have thinner lines than the older ones. The older ones were simpler which made them more easily distinguishable at a glance.
Sometimes CCP tries to fix what is not broken and in doing so breaks it.
Focus on the things that are actually broken maybe???
But at the very least, when you mess with the sky... at least give the players the option to keep it blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
540
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:23:55 -
[74] - Quote
Some refinement is in order - make them more "contrasting", i.e. sharper and more varied angular shapes.
Some of them feels very uninformative & blob-like - the industrial section for example.
Frigate to Destroyer, and Cruiser through to Battleship difference doesn't appear to be enough, since a single chevron can be lost in the sea of targets.
Use hexagons at the very least!
I think the limiting factor is the height of the Overview entry line, because they do feel cramped from an artistic & functionality perspective.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Maksmad
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:30:04 -
[75] - Quote
I do not like new icons, especially npc and pc ships icons... After 9 years in eve.... it is, at least for me, very very hard to adjust. I look at overview and I just do not see info I was used to... very confusing...
Few friends of mine left the game (not only because of this, but this was the last drop...). I tried to adjust, but I see myself logging in every few days now...
I would say, leave every icon except ships icons as it is now, and return old icons for ships or at least give us an option to switch to the old ships icons. I do not care about structure icons... PVP overview at least 90% of the time has only gates and stations anyhow...
I am sure ccp that you noticed drop in playtime and accounts subscribed since icon change. My 4 accounts will cease soon if you do not change this. If you do not care than... /shrug. I could not care less.
Best,
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
411
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:46:07 -
[76] - Quote
It's really simple. Option for old Icons at least until the new ones are workable. 80 pages of feedback in the other thread. Really. Damn. Simple.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
74
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:47:08 -
[77] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:It wasn't. it was a wall of technical analysis 2-3 pages long. Link ?
Here is 'v1' of it, there is another summary a few pages later in the thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5795826#post5795826 |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
194
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:48:12 -
[78] - Quote
Edit: I was about to go search for this post of mine that Louanne Barros linked *snickers*
So I just finished reading the devblog, finished reading the new posts in the other topic, and all comments here. I'm thrown completely off balance by the ridiculousness that goes on on the side of CCP, and of some people trying to defend the wrong cause.
Dear CCP, I thought you were crossing the t's and dotting the i's ? Nothing what you wrote in this devblog required any amount of effort to pull together. Still it took you more than half a week? Where are the promised explanations that have not yet been heard? I don't read anything new. Where are the promised explanations HOW to fix things? I don't read anything new. Everything in this devblog was known to you since the icons were introduced to the testserver.
May I politely ask you, what was your intention to accomplish with this devblog, if it is nothing but regurgitating the known?
Now, since I have to go to bed, I only have time to mark out one thing, so it will be:
Cleanse Serce wrote:This very DevBlog proves that they are NOT at all ignoring feedbacks. If your feedback is : "I don't like new icones, please change back to old ones, or at least give us an option to turn the old one on". Then i'm glad they don't listen to this. You are reading a different devblog than I do. Then again, I have not see you post a SINGLE time in the other topic. All 90 pages of it. You have clearly missed the detailed feedback objective feedback that was forwarded to CCP. You have also clearly missed the amount of feedback on the sisi topic regarding the icons. You also pretty much ignore the positive things FROM the same people who heavily criticized the new icon set. And you... well. It seems you're not actually understanding a single thing about this entire fiasco?
If I knew CCP would be so dense about the feedback on the new icons, I would have spoken up there as constructive as I did in the other topic. But something tells me this would not have changed a thing anyhow. Oh and... can I report CCP Surge for insulting other players? Because that is exactly what he did in that devblog. Sarcasm is one thing. Fueling the fire intentionally and willingly, is another. |
John WarpingSlow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:48:50 -
[79] - Quote
Ereilian wrote:Who in their right mind allowed this to go live, ignoring the masses of feedback from Sisi (oh look anther build on the test server, lets just IGNORE the test feedback.).
That responsibility would fall onto the shoulders of CCP Seagull, promoted to the position of Executive Producer in July of 2014.
Y'know, looking at her posting history, that begs another question: Why hasn't she posted on these official forums since May 16, 2014?
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PAPULA
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
41
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:51:45 -
[80] - Quote
Your only option is to bring old icons back. Plain and simple. |
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
544
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 23:13:18 -
[81] - Quote
http://www.fontscape.com/pictures/fontfont/Dingbats2BasicForms.gif
One doesn't have to limit oneself to chevrons and upward direction, CCP.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found
98
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:22:48 -
[82] - Quote
I was happily surprised to see the devblog be posted today, as I figured CCP would just post it as they ran out the door Fri.
...then I read the devblog.
I have since adjusted my recommendation for how to redress the situation
If you really want to make amends you need to: 1. Swallow your pride (reinsert after each following step) 2. Formally reprimand CCP Surge for intentionally further antagonizing the player base <- New 3. Admit the idea was well intended but horribly implemented. 4. Admit you were wrong to ignore test server feedback. 5. Admit you were wrong to force a knowingly broken (ie defective) product onto paying customers. 6. Admit you were wrong to ignore feedback after the release. 7. Admit you were wrong to be so slow in any form of response even after you finally realized there was an issue. 8. Admit you are wrong to try to continue to force us down this path with a long and drawn out incremental minor fix and twitch approach. 9. And to prove you are sincere: Refund players for the broken time they got tricked into funding for your failed and knowingly broken beta test (i.e. the # of days from the time accounts were canceled until the accounts finally expired. or at the very least give them that many days back onto their accounts after you eventually fix this issue.)
Seriously if this is the best CCP can muster after this long, ...words fail me. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
36
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:32:06 -
[83] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:You are reading a different devblog than I do. Then again, I have not see you post a SINGLE time in the other topic. All 90 pages of it. You have clearly missed the detailed feedback objective feedback that was forwarded to CCP. You have also clearly missed the amount of feedback on the sisi topic regarding the icons. You also pretty much ignore the positive things FROM the same people who heavily criticized the new icon set. And you... well. It seems you're not actually understanding a single thing about this entire fiasco?
I've read your feedback post, and i'm agree with some part of it. I was just talking to people that don't want to improve the actual icone set but to come back in time.
CCP won't go back, deal with it. New icones are great, they just need improvements.
And as somebody suggested to CCP to "Swallow their pride", I suggest you swallow yours. (yours = all of the haters, not just you Natya Mebelle)
Some people here are just way too aggressiv and it's not pushing the Devs to do anything to make haters' life better at all.
Make suggestions. Be constructive. Stay polite.
And if the Devs won't answer, just repeat. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
210
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:35:10 -
[84] - Quote
Thanks for again not admitting failure on your original design or the terribad implementation plan...
Quote: This began with the most high-level separations, for which we assigned a basic shape profile: Ships (Triangular) - Can move, are manmade. Structures (Rectangular) - Are immobile, are manmade. Celestial Bodies (Circular) - Are immobile (technically speaking), were birthed in the big bang. Except you didn't really stick to the fundamentals of this concept. There are numerous examples of icons that bridge at least 2 of these shapes at the same time, Cruisers for example, are half triangle, half square. The new stargate is just a slightly rounded square. POCOs are structures but have a diamond shape, carriers also have a diamond shape, as do some arrays too.
Quote:Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat. This is not done by making icons more complicated with more information. The definition of a good icon set is simplicity.
Quote:A clearer system for identifying different objects in space. To use your very example against you, a Curse is of greater concern than an Osprey, they represent wholly different tactical scenarios, yet both had the same icon under the new system. Now I'm not asking for even more granularity, but if your reason for increasing the number of icons that need to be committed to memory was due to tactical differences, you failed miserably. Again, clearer systems generally evolve around being more simple, not more complex. Keep It Simple.
Quote:Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS. And what are the real numbers for ISIS utilization? I personally don't know anyone that has opened it more than once, if at all. Last time I tried to use it I had to close/minimize EVERY other window I had open in game in order to be able to see everything that was remotely close to an edge. You always cite note needing to change stuff because only a minority of the playerbase is affected, how about in this case?
Quote:Catering to several years of feedback telling us the old bracket system, separating ships only by size categories, was not as useful as it could be. Instead we now have 5 separate frigate hull icons, 12 different container icons, and how many icons that used to be something else? You still have VERY close ties between a Cruiser and a Dread, the only functional difference being the couple of pixels sticking off the bottom.
And what was wrong with the old Stargate icon? It was 100x better than the scrunched/squarish pacman. Actually, pretty much half the icons could be substituted into a handful of old atari games and nobody would know the difference... The new icons can very nearly all be closely matched up with easily recognizable items from pacman, space invaders, and even mario (industrial ships look like mushrooms etc). Hire a real icon designer and not one of your artists who doesn't actively play Eve.
You also didn't admit that the implemtation and rollout of the new icons was a bad plan. Disregarding feedback and adding hundreds of new icons into the game (duplicating several but with a new/different function). They should have been changed/released in small iterations to each sub-group of icons over time. Thats like someone taking every single program/shortcut on your PC and renaming them and changing the icon/color, all at the same time, and then expecting you to not suffer any loss of productivity and not need a cheat-sheet.
There are still several things that were never answered: 1) Capsule icon, why change it to be a worse looking version than before? 2) Why do we need 5 frigate icons? 3) Why do we need 12 container icons? 4) Why do we need 8 drone icons (which is much better than the first attempt of 27)?
Just these couple of items in the old system only had 3 icons to remember, but now they have 25!
Since I'm not being paid to do your work and you out right ignored and disregarded ALL of the feedback we gave your for months I'm not doing it anymore, you can figure it out or have to fire more staff when this quarters subscription count drops significantly. You don't listen to players, maybe you will listen to your wallet. |
BoodaBooda
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion.
275
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:41:59 -
[85] - Quote
Make player ships dashed lines, but keep the same shapes. Just like the old ship brackets.
https://twitter.com/MaxAbsorbency
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PAPULA
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
43
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 23:48:14 -
[86] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote: CCP won't go back, deal with it.
Then i will not come back to game anymore, deal with it, and no you can't have my stuff, let it dust in stations. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
211
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:55:43 -
[87] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Some people here are just way too aggressiv and it's not pushing the Devs to do anything to make haters' life better at all.
Make suggestions. Be constructive. Stay polite.
And if the Devs won't answer, just repeat. Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong?
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
213
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:58:25 -
[88] - Quote
PAPULA wrote:Cleanse Serce wrote: CCP won't go back, deal with it.
Then i will not come back to game anymore, deal with it, and no you can't have my stuff, let it dust in stations. Yuppers, 3 accounts here that aren't renewing and expire within a month... and I'm keeping my hundreds of billions to make quite a dust bunny farm as well, maybe eventually I'll have dust dragons... Maybe we can coordinate stations so our dust farms can hang out? |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
36
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Posted - 2015.06.19 00:01:04 -
[89] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:Ok, so before you said that, did you spend countless hours and evenings testing and providing objective feedback or developing improved alternatives over the last several months? And after you spent those many many hours doing CCP's work to have them utterly ignore it and release with full abandon only to say you were wrong?
Those guys are developpers this is their job. They are paid for doing what they do. They work while you play.
Who are you to even make the statement that your work worth more than theirs ? Seriously. Who the hell are you to just say "Nope, your icones are ****, you should do this, that and this."
They've come with a product of a reflexion and time, and you just think that whatever work you did is better ? What the ****. Wake up spoiled kids. Wake the hell up. |
Advenat Bedala
Facehoof Out of Sight.
2
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Posted - 2015.06.19 00:03:10 -
[90] - Quote
CPP if you want to see me still playing DO NOT FORCE ME TO USE OLD ICONS!!!
also to make icons better 1) filled/empty icons is a bad idea to divide players and NPC. This is nearly invisible and stops you from using internal space of icons. 2) internal space of icons can be used for colormarks. This will solve problem with too many drone icons and will allow to mark different classes of ships. And of course this must be customizable. 3) give them ability to use old icons. I want to use their learning disability aganist them. |
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