For missile range, they rock....sadly the problems with missiles were never about range.

To **** us all over, of course.

To **** us all over, of course.

I would say the following happened again:

We said: "Ishtar still op!"

CCP: "Nerf missiles muahahahahahahaha!!!!!1111eleven"

Actually this seems legit. They nerfed medium hybrids too. Which on some boats was a weapon to counter them somewhat. Yet another case of CCP using what could be called a Change Control Form (CCF) (others may call it other things). Document your change about to make, get it signed off on, execute the change. If something breaks....you have the CCF to go this what we did
to reverse it.

They seem to be really good at this for most everything in game. Except for 1 or 2 things....

HML are really more about volley than raw DPS. I've found the changes to be adequate in a number of scenarios particularly when shooting sleepers or running 3/10s with my cerb. Also it's worth noting that lowsec caracal fleets vs armour doctrines haven't been explored yet where 1 TP fleet painter and 1x MGC per ship could be useful. These modules haven't been considered for large scales yet either.

Take something uncommon like the navy drake. I'll update my pyfa to Aegis and run some hypotheticals then report here.

[Drake Navy Issue, Drake NI HML]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Now make a fleet of them.

As I've said before, a missile fleet will never be a thing unless there are unbelievable changes.

Reasons as follows:

Skirmish links (LOLSIG & LOLSPEED)
Telegraphed damage utterly eliminating the possibility of effective target swapping
Inability to blap small things at poor transversal
Webs and painters help turrets just as much, in fact more because of the ability to blap small things.
Firewalls remain a thing.


Take an eagle vs a cerberus with quick fit flung together.

[Cerberus, HML Fleet]
Damage Control II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II



[Eagle, Fleet]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II




The eagle will do the same damage to the cerberus at 90+ km, it will do MORE at any shorter ranges down to about 20km.

The cerberus needs THREE application mods for this to happen. And it's still crappier.

It also suffers rather badly on the EHP front: 60k vs the eagles 90k

I've used a fully linked sleipnir for boosts here.



So, on that basis, why would I EVER undock a HML cerb for fleet work?

Delayed damage, less of it, destroyable damage, less EHP, more slots dedicated to fitting - all to do less DPS than my turret counterparts, at a high transversal?

You'd have to be high.

As I've said before, a missile fleet will never be a thing unless there are unbelievable changes.

Found one undeniably good use for Missile Computers: hitting faction/deadspace rats that won't let you use target painters on them (Why the F is that anyways???). But I mean, this is so niche that it falls through the crack on Niche's floor.

Right now, the HP buff is more impressive. Damage is more consistent on large rats because of that (nice stealth PVE buff).

How HP buff increase damage? NPC defenders don't work?

As I've said before, a missile fleet will never be a thing unless there are unbelievable changes.

Reasons as follows:

>>> SNIP


So, on that basis, why would I EVER undock a HML cerb for fleet work?

Delayed damage, less of it, destroyable damage, less EHP, more slots dedicated to application - all to do less DPS than my turret counterparts, at a high transversal?

You'd have to be high.

Doesn't the Loki only have a 4 launcher config? It's never going to compete with the turret subs.

Maybe the intent was for a 'like for like' comparison?.

...You're gonna see some running around with these for a while since they are new and people will be trying to figure them out. After a while, though, when people realize their only advantage over a TP is they use less cap, they will get dumped to the side.

Btw. sov-sec could have waited a few days until missiles are sorted.

I totally disagree with you here. Waiting for the new sov system was strangling 0.0. I just hope it's not already dead from so many quitting over the last few months of stagnation.

I am consolidating feedback from this thread and presenting it in some bullet points to CCP. I hope to get as much of this addressed as possible.

Primarily:
-Address fits that relied on application modules before stacking penalties nerfed them
-Make mid slot application modules competitive with TPs and/or application rigs
-Make low slot application modules significant enough that stacking penalties don't wipe out their bonus
-Biggest concerns are for larger missiles that rely on application bonuses
-Range bonuses are generally okay now

Let me know how that sounds at the top level or if I missed something global.

I am consolidating feedback from this thread and presenting it in some bullet points to CCP. I hope to get as much of this addressed as possible.

Primarily:
-Address fits that relied on application modules before stacking penalties nerfed them
-Make mid slot application modules competitive with TPs and/or application rigs
-Make low slot application modules significant enough that stacking penalties don't wipe out their bonus
-Biggest concerns are for larger missiles that rely on application bonuses
-Range bonuses are generally okay now

Let me know how that sounds at the top level or if I missed something global.

Let me know how that sounds at the top level or if I missed something global.

IMO you covert most problems..

Only thing I would add that computers are less useful for caldari ship (funny, they are missile race) since they are shield tank mostly, so it's hard to spare the midslot.. not sure how to solve this though