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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7463	Posted - 2016.01.20 13:57:52 - [4261] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: SWTOR has instancing. You can go into a raid instance and only you and your group are in the same raid. There might be hundreds of people doing the same raid at the same time, but only you and your friends if you have any are in your instance of that raid. In EVE, that doesn't exist. That DED site you're running? Anyone can probe it down, or even probe you down, and come join you, whether you like it or not. That's true, but for some people there is a need to minimize differences between things (like games). If all games are the same, then it's ok to suggest that one game be made to be like another. I think most people know that EVE delivers a different experience than other games do. The majority of people I know, and fly with, understand EVE and what makes it unique just fine. Kell et al are a vocal minority without a clue that will rant on about how EVE needs to be more like other games and maybe stomp their feet a bit over not getting their way, but until they understand why making EVE like other games is bad for it, they'll never have anything constructive to offer the unique gaming experience that is EVE Online. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13409	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:03:03 - [4262] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE won't be EVE anymore. Brother Rem. That's the point lol. It's something that you can see anywhere. When people don't value a whole thing (warts and all), when they think things would be better if the things they don't like just go away (because they don't understand that things are interconnected), then you get these weird and contradictory opinions and activism from people. It's like how people Grr Goons without understanding how valuable Goons are as a centralized something to hate, Hell, an argument can be made that without Goons the game might not even still be here. Same goes for CODE and types like that. And how much economic activity wouldn't have happened without ganking, how many stories wouldn't have been written without scamming and awoxxing. In game as in real life, niceness and peace are two things that are as boring as hell. While i love EVE it's literally less exciting than it once was because CCP has spent time killing interesting things in a drive to widen the appeal of the game, an attempt that was doomed to failure from the start because an EVE that appeals to everyone wouldn't be an EVE that appeals to you and me and space pirates and Goons and James 3-whatever. Which, again, is the point behind the opinion and activism lol.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7140	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:03:07 - [4263] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: I'm done with you. Good. Remiel Pollard wrote: Your complete lack of understanding of what EVE is, and what makes it unique, make any opinion you have on it irrelevant anyway so I can safely ignore you in the understanding that CCP is ignoring you too. You mean having my own opinion that differs from yours? I can't be sure, but I think someone that launching in a torrent of abuse for two pages of a thread is less likely to get on the required reading list by CCP. Remiel Pollard wrote: Your disagreement with objective, demonstrable fact Except of course it's not. It's your opinion with "THIS IS OBJECTIVE FACT" written on it by you. Remiel Pollard wrote: A freighter gets ganked in high, and a nul sec alliance loses out on vital supplies resulting in lost territory. That lost territory results in someone else controlling the moons there, affecting the prices of T2 goods in Jita, and the list of effects that have real meaning with no instancing goes on. Indeed, and all I'm saying is that should CCP one day decide that instancing is required to get more players on board I'd be happy with that as long as they maintain the notion of a single shard. The fact that you are going on about prices beign affected here tells me that you still don't understand the difference between instanced content and multiple server shards. Instancing wouldn't stop every action effecting the economy. Remiel Pollard wrote: You add instancing, you get themepark, and EVE won't be EVE anymore. Add instancing, and suddenly, that freighter is on a different instance from the gankers, and the gank never happens. Wrong. A game isn't themepark simply because it has instancing, and done right the server would ensure that a mix of players is pushed into the same space or that instances are used sparingly to ensure ganking still does occur. The funny part is that I'm not even suggesting they should add instancing, I'm simply saying it wouldn't be a game-ending change. Yet you're acting like I'm jumping up and down should "we want raids". The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7140	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:08:20 - [4264] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: The majority of people I know, and fly with, understand EVE and what makes it unique just fine. Hold the press. You mean that people you know and fly with share your opinions? Honestly I'm shocked! Who'd have thought that a group of people that play together and get along might have things in common? Remiel Pollard wrote: Kell et al are a vocal minority without a clue that will rant on about how EVE needs to be more like other games and maybe stomp their feet a bit over not getting their way, but until they understand why making EVE like other games is bad for it, they'll never have anything constructive to offer the unique gaming experience that is EVE Online. You can pretend that's true as much as you want, won't make it a reality. I just have the common sense to acknowledge that CCP might need to make compromises going forward if they want to continue growing their community and improving on their game. Just like how everyone used to be against microtransactions yet now are watching them adding the purchase of skillpoints without a raqutting monument shootout. I'm about looking realistically at what balance can be found between maintaining what makes EVE what it is and appealing to a fresh audience. You're seemingly for stamping your feet screaming that EVE should be kept exactly the way you like it regardless of how that affects other players or CCPs bottom line. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7465	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:09:57 - [4265] - Quote See, above me is a post with Kell's name on it, but it's hidden. It has a button to show the post, but i'm not going to click it. I'm assuming it's more worthless drivel that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of objective reasoning, critical thinking, what instancing is and why it's bad for EVE, or EVE Online in general, and I'm going to ignore it. Just like CCP. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17128	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:19:42 - [4266] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: See, above me is a post with Kell's name on it, but it's hidden. It has a button to show the post, but i'm not going to click it. I'm assuming it's more worthless drivel that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of objective reasoning, critical thinking, what instancing is and why it's bad for EVE, or EVE Online in general, and I'm going to ignore it. Just like CCP. There's something to be said with using one of GD's biggest punching bags to pass away the time. Its one of the two reasons I don't block, the other being we cant afford the let the drivel they spout go unchallanged as that leads to things such as the mentioned poor barge balance pass.. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7142	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:19:42 - [4267] - Quote They should totally get rid of ganking. Anyone that has posted in this thread and does not explicitly disagree with this below is registering their support of this change. Ed: you got that proof yet baltec? Oh and dude, we totally posted in the same second. We won the forums. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7465	Posted - 2016.01.20 14:25:22 - [4268] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: See, above me is a post with Kell's name on it, but it's hidden. It has a button to show the post, but i'm not going to click it. I'm assuming it's more worthless drivel that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of objective reasoning, critical thinking, what instancing is and why it's bad for EVE, or EVE Online in general, and I'm going to ignore it. Just like CCP. There's something to be said with using one of GD's biggest punching bags to pass away the time. Its one of the two reasons I don't block, the other being we cant afford the let the drivel they spout go unchallanged as that leads to things such as the mentioned poor barge balance pass.. True, but there's only so much arguing with stupid one can do before one begins to find more appeal in smashing his face against a wall. It's probably much more productive, too. I have a wall that needs some holes in it, because I don't want it there anymore (renovations incoming soon). I'm sure someone else can counter his nonsense if need be. At the end of the day, though, I'm fairly certain CCP can see his intellectual dishonesty clear as day, as well as his failure to grasp the core tenets that they design the game with. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25716	Posted - 2016.01.20 15:19:19 - [4269] - Quote Obligatory popcorn gif Entertaining as this little spat is to watch, is there any possibility of getting this back on topic before the ISD team give up all hope of salvaging the thread and lock it forever? If you two wish to continue verbally punching each other in the face it may be a good idea to do it privately. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7142	Posted - 2016.01.20 15:22:32 - [4270] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Obligatory popcorn gif Entertaining as this little spat is to watch, is there any possibility of getting this back on topic before the ISD team give up all hope of salvaging the thread and lock it forever? If you two wish to continue verbally punching each other in the face it may be a good idea to do it privately. I did try. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 700	Posted - 2016.01.20 15:54:46 - [4271] - Quote Christ this is getting sad, its like watching a pair of one legged men try to have an asskicking contest. Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin you're welcome
King Aires Chicks on Speed Mordus Angels 117	Posted - 2016.01.20 16:19:26 - [4272] - Quote Darek Castigatus wrote: Christ this is getting sad, its like watching a pair of one legged men try to have an asskicking contest. Getting flashbacks of watching Karate Kid back in the day
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 405	Posted - 2016.01.20 16:58:03 - [4273] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: are you fecking joking lucas? instances are the devil and i'm not at all sure you know wtf you're talking about. you really should stop and think before you type. You say everything's the devil mama! Why exactly are instances the devil? Lucas can you read? I can't remember one other post where I said something was the devil, never mind "devil mama" I never said that. Just how reliable is anything you say when you can't even quote me on a full sentence without twisting it within the first 4 words. Go home Lucas, you're drunk!
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 405	Posted - 2016.01.20 17:02:00 - [4274] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Obligatory popcorn gif Entertaining as this little spat is to watch, is there any possibility of getting this back on topic before the ISD team give up all hope of salvaging the thread and lock it forever? If you two wish to continue verbally punching each other in the face it may be a good idea to do it privately. The sooner they lock this nonsense the better
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7142	Posted - 2016.01.20 17:06:33 - [4275] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: are you fecking joking lucas? instances are the devil and i'm not at all sure you know wtf you're talking about. you really should stop and think before you type. You say everything's the devil mama! Why exactly are instances the devil? Lucas can you read? I can't remember one other post where I said something was the devil, never mind "devil mama" I never said that. Just how reliable is anything you say when you can't even quote me on a full sentence without twisting it within the first 4 words. Go home Lucas, you're drunk! I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic here, so if you are, good show! The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 405	Posted - 2016.01.20 17:18:15 - [4276] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: are you fecking joking lucas? instances are the devil and i'm not at all sure you know wtf you're talking about. you really should stop and think before you type. You say everything's the devil mama! Why exactly are instances the devil? Lucas can you read? I can't remember one other post where I said something was the devil, never mind "devil mama" I never said that. Just how reliable is anything you say when you can't even quote me on a full sentence without twisting it within the first 4 words. Go home Lucas, you're drunk! I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic here, so if you are, good show! please,,,,,,,,, and did you just call for all ganking to be removed from the game?
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7142	Posted - 2016.01.20 17:23:07 - [4277] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: please,,,,,,,,, Nope, still can;t tell. Let's be clear, it was a badly paraphrased movie reference. xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: and did you just call for all ganking to be removed from the game? Yes. Now it's your job to figure out if it's a legitimate suggestion (I'll give you a hint, it's not). The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Varathius Space-Brewery-Association 195	Posted - 2016.01.20 17:29:24 - [4278] - Quote Mir Jana wrote: I was wondering about something... January 2014 - average was 41k online June 2014 - average was 32k online December 2014 - average was 27k online May 2015 - average was 21k online August 2015 - average is 16k online today I logged in at 14793 online..... What can CCP do to re-build its populace cause obviously something is rotten in the state of Iceland...? Looks like someone failed or hasn't taken a statistics class.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 406	Posted - 2016.01.20 18:13:12 - [4279] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: please,,,,,,,,, Nope, still can;t tell. Let's be clear, it was a badly paraphrased movie reference. xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: and did you just call for all ganking to be removed from the game? Yes. Now it's your job to figure out if it's a legitimate suggestion (I'll give you a hint, it's not). No i think you'll find it's not my job, infact i think you'll find it's not a job at all. but going on some peoples posting history you'd think it was it's really up to you to be clear on what you are trying to say. all i can do is read what anyone has to say, if it's said badly then it's hardly any fault of mine or anyone else. can you put in less than 50 words what exactly you want from EVE? Protip: type it out in word, read it back to yourself at least 3 times and if you are happy with it then hit post. my job hahahaha you're crazy Lucas or stoned out of your noggin.
ISD Fractal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 792	Posted - 2016.01.20 18:53:04 - [4280] - Quote Doing some tidying in this thread, please stand by. ISD Fractal Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Captain Tardbar Interstellar Incorporated 1140	Posted - 2016.01.22 19:26:22 - [4281] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: You said Elite was more fun. Is that why you have more posts in this thread than you do on the entire Elite forum? To be honest, there's not a lot to write about on the Elite forums. Their forums don't allow "forum PvP" and the meta element is minuscule in there at best. Game itself made it harder to post on the forums, ED is a game you actually have to play, you don't get those tasty 20 minutes while waiting for a mining ship to fill up, nor those 5 minutes waiting for the freighter to warp through a system, nor that long time you get while waiting for somebody to pass through a gate you camp or when stealthed in a renter system. Only reason to ever look at ED forums is to post about bugs and look if the server crashed. To be fair, I would not model EVE's economics model on ED's. ED is based on Communism and prevents players from trading at anything but an state approved NPC store. Technically ED has over a million players though. If one thing that EVE has right, is it's markets. Though contracts could use some work. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Arsine Mayhem Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 398	Posted - 2016.01.23 06:20:49 - [4282] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: People like this amaze me. Somehow the same Goons I've been killing (across multiple games in fact) for the last 7 years are so terrible that they literally make this poster not play a game he pays for. ... And yet those same Goons are so pathetic that this superior human being (that does not play because of them) sees THEM as the 'crybabies'. The human ego is the most incredible invention in all the universe as far as I'm concerned. Awwww, isn't that cute. You ASSume I'm paying for this for a training queue. I cashed in my isk for plex when they were going for 450k. Once in a while I'll sub for a month, log in 3 or 4 times and let it expire again for 3, 4, 12 months. There was one month I subbed and logged in, wondered why I subbed and didn't play at all. Last plex I'll bio, unless I do it before then. So no I haven't paid for anything for at least 4 years.
Arsine Mayhem Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 398	Posted - 2016.01.23 06:27:33 - [4283] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Arsine Mayhem wrote: Crybabies backed into a corner, surrounded by NIP's, and still cry. And yet here you are, crying about them, and calling them the reason you 'don't play' despite having to be subscribed to access the forums. Your doublethink is amazing. Hmm, doublethink, is that hik talk? I'm not crying, just stating the facts. So much lame in this game. You ASSume I care enough to cry. Poor baby, go dry your tears.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17394	Posted - 2016.01.23 10:04:44 - [4284] - Quote We're all secretly very impressed by how much you don't care about a game you spend so much time posting about. No, really. You're basically the Fonz of EVE. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 4528	Posted - 2016.01.23 11:22:35 - [4285] - Quote Now that the thread has been suspended, reanimated, cleaned and groomed, let's keep discussing fun stuff with the PCU! Admittedly I don't have much new to say until the February peak is gone, so I will just drop a question that's been buzzing around my head for a while. What happened to PCU in June 2015? Right after May 31, PCU began dropping like a rock, to the point that 2015 was split into "above year's average" till May and "below year's average" starting June till December. Here's the year snapshot And a detail on how it began dropping after May 31 (the last higher peak). So, what happened? My initial guess was that it was related to Aegisov, but that wasn't implemented until July. Then I thought that maybe it was related to the expiry of 6-month subscriptions not being renewed over the input relaying changes, but, seriously? From 39k online to 34k online? Why did those guys keep loggin in? So here's the thing. So far remains a little mistery... can anyone come up with theories on what happened in June 2015 so PCU lost 5,000 players in 4 weeks? CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now". 62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?" CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17396	Posted - 2016.01.23 11:46:36 - [4286] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Now that the thread has been suspended, reanimated, cleaned and groomed, let's keep discussing fun stuff with the PCU! Admittedly I don't have much new to say until the February peak is gone, so I will just drop a question that's been buzzing around my head for a while. What happened to PCU in June 2015? Right after May 31, PCU began dropping like a rock, to the point that 2015 was split into "above year's average" till May and "below year's average" starting June till December. Here's the year snapshot And a detail on how it began dropping after May 31 (the last higher peak). So, what happened? My initial guess was that it was related to Aegisov, but that wasn't implemented until July. Then I thought that maybe it was related to the expiry of 6-month subscriptions not being renewed over the input relaying changes, but, seriously? From 39k online to 34k online? Why did those guys keep loggin in? So here's the thing. So far remains a little mistery... can anyone come up with theories on what happened in June 2015 so PCU lost 5,000 players in 4 weeks? Since you'll just ignore or recast anything anyone says to suit your pre-conceptions, why not stop pretending you're interested in our opinions and tell us yours. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Caitlyn DeSalle The Flying Dutchmen ORPHANS OF EVE 1	Posted - 2016.01.23 12:53:28 - [4287] - Quote So, what do we know of the people that left? Did CCP share their motivations with the rest of the community? I believe there is a post mortem survey done on your way out? So far all I see is the opinions of those left behind and let's face it, the assholery is strong with some of them. I much rather know why new players turn their back on Eve. You can't fix if you don't know what is broken.
King Aires Chicks on Speed Mordus Angels 136	Posted - 2016.01.23 13:39:18 - [4288] - Quote Caitlyn DeSalle wrote: So, what do we know of the people that left? Did CCP share their motivations with the rest of the community? I believe there is a post mortem survey done on your way out? So far all I see is the opinions of those left behind and let's face it, the assholery is strong with some of them. I much rather know why new players turn their back on Eve. You can't fix if you don't know what is broken. The survey when you unsub is rather pointless to actual suggestions of the game. It includes things like "I have real life issues" "I just want to cancel" "I need to think over options for billing" So we they can't use that as much as the comment section, but face it, humans are lazy creatures and won't fill out much. The actual post-mortem survey they email out is a whole different animal, but still rather pointless and probably ignored by many. Steam reviews are generally a horrible place to get reviews of a game this old and sophisticated but the general negative remarks are about the lack of effort based skill systems, high monthly subscription, horrible community attitude and lack of direction or purpose. Now that all being said. Most likely CCP has a pretty good idea of who our recent lost player numbers are, probably why they left too. However they are in the middle of a community culture that thinks its cool to pump up their chests and scream "WE DIDN'T WANT THOSE PLAYERS ANYWAYS" So there's that.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25718	Posted - 2016.01.23 14:07:06 - [4289] - Quote King Aires wrote: Steam reviews are generally a horrible place to get reviews of a game this old and sophisticated but the general negative remarks are about the lack of effort based skill systems, That merely means that some people don't understand the difference between a time based skill system and a grind based skill system Quote: high monthly subscription, Which is on a par with other subscription MMO's and doesn't gouge you for new content? Quote: horrible community attitude A community that is often praised for its maturity and generosity, despite how ruthless the gameplay is. Quote: and lack of direction or purpose. It's a sandbox, Eve doesn't spoon feed you direction, purpose or content, it uses the spoon to beat you mercilessly until you find your own. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17403	Posted - 2016.01.23 14:14:12 - [4290] - Quote I'm increasingly coming round to the view that the big drop wasn't because EVE has too much ganking or too little W-space or hasn't got WiS or anything as simple as that. I think the problem is that EVE is heavily populated with players who have played it for a very long time. As such the existing playerbase is largely simultaneously kind of bored because they've throroughly mastered the aspects of the game they're interested in while at the same time vulnerable to change fatigue because they're so heaviliy invested in that mastery. So everyone agrees that this or that part of the game needs a "radical improvement" (even if they're not at all in agreement about how). But it's the magnitude of the change that's dangerous, because with a big enough change, there will be a large fraction of the players who - even if they were the ones calling for the change - will simply balk at the effort required to relearn "their" part of EVE and peace out. One really good recent example of this is off-grid boosting. Until recently, it was near impossible to find anyone who had a good word to say about it. And from a game design perspective, there isn't much good to say about it. It exists purely because it's really difficult to remove it for technical reasons. Then one fine day in the month of January In The Year Of Our Lord 2016, CCP casually let drop that they're pretty close to solving those technical difficulties, and OGB is going away Real Soon Now. In a shocking surprise twist turn of events, it seems that a lot of the players who used to use OGB as a stick to beat CCP with ("Why won't you fix your stupid game CCP? Well FINE I will use OGB since everyone else is using it too! Hate the game, not the player!") err... actually didn't want to lose THEIR OGB at all. They were pretty much OK with goons/blobbers/russians/no-true-soloists losing their SS Lokis... but "Oh god no, not mine!!! We NEED that to fit goons/blobbers/russians/FOTM!!!" "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"

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