You only furthered the slippery slope and worse, assumed I felt some obligation to participate in every service CCP offers, existing or otherwise.

That considered I hope you'll excuse my not wanting to review your post history for more of the same.

In case you haven't notice CCP seems to be having trouble with "getting it right" these days. And the margin for error with this is microscopic. Are you that confident they can get this right considering their latest track record?

It-¦s your good right to hold prejudices without checking. Please proceed. I-¦m gone soon anyways :) Doesn-¦t matter

Yes, but I don't think you'll be able to completely pay for a sub by forfeiting that sub's SP gains.

Though some (current char bazaar sellers) pay subs or PLEX just to farm SP on an account, most actually PLAY with their subbed accounts (alts included).


If a sub (or PLEX) gives you:

1 month play time

+

1.8M SP (more or less)


Why do you think you should get a full PLEX back by selling just the SP component of a PLEX's worth?

because the only way to accrue SP is to have an active subscription. they are the same thing. one cannot exist without the other.

Not sure what you mean there.

If I play on my main, need ISK but don't need, say, half of my monthly SP, I'll certainly consider selling them for less than half a PLEX (+ whatever the extractor will cost).

Any SP 'farmers' wishing to sell a month's worth of SP at PLEX + extractor + margin will be undercut by any active player that needs ISK more than SP.

Thus, I'm sure 500,000 SP will cost less than 1/4 PLEX + extractor. So, you won't be able to PLEX an account entirely by selling its SP accumulation.

It does not matter if it pays the full sub. It will lower the cost because you sell off the SP you don't need. And yes, I talk about accounts I play with, like this account. I don't need anymore SP because a gank alt has limited SP requirements. So thanks for all the additional free (or almost free) gank accunts/alts I will create if this hits TQ

It does not matter if it pays the full sub. It will lower the cost because you sell off the SP you don't need. And yes, I talk about accounts I play with, like this account. I don't need anymore SP because a gank alt has limited SP requirements. So thanks for all the additional free (or almost free) gank accunts/alts I will create if this hits TQ

yeah if you just want to sell your spare SP for isk because you don't need it but you're not expressly farming isk you can undercut "sp farmers"... but you'll do it by like a couple of isk, not by dropping your price by like 50%

It really depends on the proportion of 'SP farmers' to 'regular dudes selling off excess SP'.

If the former are dominant, sure the price will be higher. If the Jita price of 500,000 SP is 1/4 PLEX only a fool would sell them for 50M ISK. But if the latter are dominant, the price could be much lower indeed.

May I remind you that each and every character ever created since 2003 can sell SP? Do you really think the main SP-sellers will be farmers?

Thus, I'm sure 500,000 SP will cost less than 1/4 PLEX + extractor. So, you won't be able to PLEX an account entirely by selling its SP accumulation.

Vets have the isk to make instant-perfect capital alts

I'm having trouble interpreting this as anything but a claim that I buy PLEX from CCP to avoid having to play certain parts of the game. If you intended it otherwise please do explain.

That wasn't the question persay, but works in lack of an answer I suppose.

So if a character comes along with a name I like, lack of history from being purpose made to sell, or better with standings aligned to my liking or at least not in a way that discourages my use, why does any of that matter? Allocated SP in particular seems horridly irrelevant so long as it has the skills I want/need. There is no longer any penalty for "wasted" SP, so why does this have meaning?

here's the fact - isk farmers are doing it for profit. they simply cannot sell below cost price. people not doing it for profit won't undercut by 50% because... why the **** would you?

Because you didn't spend a PLEX just to farm, you would've spent it anyway to play.

Simple as that.

And the proportion is very meaningful. If you have 1,000 packets for sale in Jita, of which just 100 from farmers, this will happen:

. Farmers won't go lower than their costs

. All the others will have to decide how much 500,000 SP are worth to them, considering they didn't specifically dish out 1/4 PLEX to create them. Supply & demand will do the rest. High demand --> maybe even double the theoretical PLEX cost (1/2 PLEX). Low demand --> who knows? maybe less than half? What are you ever going to do with those mining skills on your PVP char anyway???

1/4 PLEX + extractor + price of waiting traning time
Patience is also valuable thing. All this market of skill traning is exist because some people have no patience like me =) I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained.
So actually it may cost more than 1/4 PLEX + extractor.

So why did you not already buy 10 perfect dread alts from the Character Bazaar already?

If you already did, why would you need more dread alts after this proposed change?

so because you're playing anyway you're going to sell SP f or 150m rather than 299m because you're already playing? no, you wouldn't. you will secure that sale at 299m isk, the same as you would at 150m. you're not going to throw away 149m isk for no reason.

you'd have to be simple to do that. honestly.

yeah 100 farmers won't lower their price to below cost. and 900 packets are then sold below cost. you secure the sale if you're 0.01 isk under "cost price" so they'll be sold for 299m. not 150m.

besides, all the traders will see your 150m sp packets on the market, see a 100% margin, and just buy it to relist it.

other than the initial "gold rush" there's almost basically no way that these packets won't track plex price + extractor costs per unit.

Rinse and repeat, all of which will be done through what, instantly making new pilots?

(Really, what do you really need 10 dread alts for?)

Dave, I don't think I'm capable of accurately predicting the price but you shouldn't think so either!

Come on, what you say is not how markets work! If I go for 299m someone can go for 298m then someone can go for 250m. Supply & demand, as always.

Demand is anyone's guess, so is supply but the fact that every char ever created has SP and every active account accumulates SP makes me think that there's at least a possibility that supply could be pretty damn huge...

Is this "Dave Stark vs the world" here?

and that's any different to just buying 10 titan pilots from the bazaar now?

people have been selling pilots capable of flying titans/supercarriers for quite a while now.

Because there aren't 10,000 titan characters for sale. Doing so as of right now puts people at throats with others wanting it for an actual pilot for their titan. With this change it will only bring people to make fresh-unknown pilots that aren't watch listed as known titan pilots.