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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Sanders Schmittlaub
New Jovian Exploration Department
A Band Apart.
9
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:41:49 -
[31] - Quote
I am torn on this.
On the one hand, I would love to be able to reallocate skillpoints that I have 'wasted' but at the same time, I feel that the decisions that players make should be something we have to live with. Being able to pay to fix the issues seems like an easy out.
The other issue I have is that the scaling of effectiveness will seriously unbalance the market with these items. The people who can afford to buy large numbers of skill packets (80+m SP) get the least out of them, but they can afford to buy them ten at a time to get the same effectiveness as a new player, which will in turn make it essentially impossible for new players (who will get the most out of them) to ever afford one.
With these being an AURUM item, the cost to buy one will need to be balanced with the profits that can be made off of them. PLEX is already absurdly expensive, so placing an item with good profits will only further make PLEX an unaffordable item. This would therefore force the costs of every other AURUM item up, and (while I don't use them) I know a lot of people are madly in love with ship SKINS. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Northern Coalition.
1828
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:42:20 -
[32] - Quote
xttz wrote:Point of note that some posting here seem to have missed:
You're not buying skills for real money. Someone has to extract those skillpoints from another character first, then the fee allows the transfer. Kinda like we currently do to transfer whole characters already.
to be honest, that's exactly what it is.
i have an account that only holds characters that require no further skilling for their purpose. i would start selling every single SP trained on this account on the day this goes live. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1989
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:42:33 -
[33] - Quote
Honestly, I'm pretty surprised to the negative reaction here.
People posting about this (both here and from without) are quick to call this "ISK for SP;" did you all deliberately ignore the part where you have to liquidate an existing pilot's skill points to fuel the skill packets?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Niraia
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
346
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:42:47 -
[34] - Quote
WTF are you doing to your game?
Niraia
EVE Online Hold'Em
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Laufey Sif Tetseldottir
Blue Lagoon Appreciation Society
19
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:42:48 -
[35] - Quote
-NO- |
big miker
Rifterlings
Zero.Four Ops
351
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
No
Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / maruaders
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Paka-Tegat Birshiri
Paragon Material Extraction and Processing
5
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Wow. I guess this is the end, CCP. So long and thanks for all the fish, but even the thought of "floating this idea for comment" makes me no longer want to support your game.
This is, literally, Pay2Win.
Sure someone has to train those skillpoints and extract them. But that doesn't change the fact that any player, any character, can now spend real life money for skillpoints, the one bastion of sanity remaining. In a world where you could already amass ISK easier by RMTing it... oops, sorry, buying PLEX and then selling those PLEX for ISK, totally not RMT... skill points remained one of the defining factors. You can fund as many expensive ships as you wanted, but you still had to put in the time and planning to be good at it, both in terms of character skills and player skill.
Thanks for all the memories, EVE. 4 accounts spanning almost 10 years will be hard to let go of, but it's time.
No, you can't have my stuff. |
h4kun4
Heeresversuchsanstalt
The Bastion
34
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:45:13 -
[38] - Quote
im sorry, but i think this is the most terrible idea ive read since fozziesov |
BlitZ Kotare
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
135
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:45:51 -
[39] - Quote
My gut reaction to this is that it's a bad idea.
If you want to discuss pulling out complete skills for sale that would be more reasonable.
Example: when I was a newbie I trained Mining V and I don't want it anymore. Instead of removing SP that is injected as unallocated I instead consume some item and can pull out (and then sell on the market) the skillbook+sp for Mining V as a complete item. Any other player that doesn't have Mining V trained can then consume that item after buying it from me and enjoy their new mining skill. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
3058
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:45:57 -
[40] - Quote
I am also against this. I could go into details but . . . this feels wrong to me. Against what I thought the game to be.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Scott Ormands
The Desolate Order
Brave Collective
56
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:46:07 -
[41] - Quote
On one hand im excited to get back the 3m sp wasted in mining on a carrier toon, on the other what is to stop me from trainging a command ship and then extracting all the boosting skills, so to speak. in that way i could still fly the command ship but would have gotten my boosting skills transfered into some other skill or sold for isk. its a way to beat the prereq system for almost anything. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
398
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:46:36 -
[42] - Quote
No, CCP just no.
:facepalm: |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Northern Coalition.
1829
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:46:47 -
[43] - Quote
Quote:0 GÇô 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 GÇô 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 GÇô 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added
i have a feeling that this is waaaay overpowered in the 5-50m sp range. without wasted skillpoints, you don't need more than that to pay for a pretty much perfect character for pretty much any purpose |
D'Kmal
Variables Unlimited
Void..
10
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:46:47 -
[44] - Quote
What if removing skillpoints was only possible if it killed/biomassed the character they were taken from? That way you would still essentially be buying a character (i.e. taking all their SP), just now you could start a new character with the name and looks that you wanted, and apply the whole of the first character's SP to them.
I'm in two minds: on one hand, seems like a pretty useful idea.
On the other hand, destroys everything that was fantastic about EVE in living with the consequences of your actions - but I suppose that saying that "SP was the one resource that couldn't be bought" was stupid, as you could just buy a character.
I'm dubiously in support of this. |
The Slayer
Hole Violence
Whole Squid
279
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:47:04 -
[45] - Quote
:tardiscloisterbell.mp3:
Its been a good ride gents. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
1504
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:47:16 -
[46] - Quote
Dear god no... |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
2022
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:47:27 -
[47] - Quote
Querns wrote:They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character.
They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Create Alliance
712
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:47:30 -
[48] - Quote
Considering how cheap SP is on the Character Bazaar, do you feel that it's okay to charge so much for it through this system? Not that I like the system either.
WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs
WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
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The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
8299
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:47:39 -
[49] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:i look forward to buying the characters of our enemies and turning them into skillgoop
salt the earth~
~hi~
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Obsidian Crowe
Repercussus
Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:48:20 -
[50] - Quote
Please god no.
You will make EVE play to win
There will be no time investment in the game.
IT WILL BE THE END OF WORLDS |
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Izmaragd Dawnstar
EVE University
Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:49:10 -
[51] - Quote
By all that is holy, please don't do this.
I think you severely underestimate the min-maxing a lot of people will go through twelve hoops to purchase more and more SP.
Yes, it may be terribly inefficient at high spellpower levels, but running 5 or 10 accounts to fuel one is not unheard of and a lot of people have mountains of isk on their hands.
If you want to deal with SP brickwalls and requirements, there are numerous other ways to do it. |
Lquid Drisseg
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:49:23 -
[52] - Quote
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1989
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:49:36 -
[53] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Querns wrote:They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game.
Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Drakthon
3
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:49:40 -
[54] - Quote
It seems like a good plan on the surface, but underneath this is a bad idea.
Skill points are essential to what makes an Eve pilot an Eve pilot. Take that away or undermine it, and you undermine the game. I was open to at least exploring the idea until you mentioned selling these packets for Aurum. After that, the entire idea is awash in money making, and while I understand that corporations need to make money...this is too far.
Are you going to sell ships for Aurum, a la Star Citizen? Or equipment of any kind? Why are skill points, the most essential element in Eve and the thing that literally everything revolves around any different? Avoid this slippery slope, CCP. It's a bad road to go down. Let the character Bazaar change, improve and adapt for the current time. It is indeed a fantastic idea to avoid 3rd party transfers, PLEX is an excellent idea to avoid 3rd party money issues. But this? There's no 3rd party involved with skill points, and scamming on the Bazaar is against ToS (and easily caught, I would imagine). Selling skill points is not the way to go. The young pilots need to invest the same time that the rest of us have. It's the only reason we're still here, and arguably the only way they will stay. When I purchase anything in a game, if it gets me ahead...appreciation for the game depreciates exponentially. I haven't earned it, why would I care about it? You could draw the same conclusion about the Bazaar, but even that uses PLEX. Not Aurum.
Truly, I appreciate CCP coming to the player base first. Good show. Don't forget to listen, as well. |
Ripard Teg
Snuff Box
Snuffed Out
1091
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
OK, I've calmed down slightly. Let's give you guys some specific feedback so that you understand what a ******* terrible idea this is.
I have an alt I bought on the bazaar years ago. He has 82 million SP. Much of it is focused on mining and reprocessing, skills I haven't used in years. As long as I'm a whale...
Step 1: Pump a ton of Aurum into CCP to buy 84 Transneural Skill Extractors.
Step 2: Use them to create 84 Transneural Skill Packets for a total of 42 million SP.
Step 3: Consume 25 of them myself to bring myself to 50 million SP, dumping my useless SP and focusing this alt on incursion-running.
Step 4: Sell 59 Transneural Skill Packets on the market, making it more or less unnecessary for me to actually run incursions for a while since 59 of these are going to be worth a ton of ISK.
And that doesn't even get into the matter of using those 84 Packets to more or less instantly jump a new character from 0 to 40 million SP. Character ages and birth dates will become completely meaningless.
Again, I can do these things as long as I'm a whale and pump a ton of money into CCP for the 84 Transneural Skill Extractors.
Am I missing anything here? Who in God's name thought this was a good idea? Can we sell them to Riot?
aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
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Anthar Thebess
1327
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:51:08 -
[56] - Quote
This is joke?
Sorry but NO!
BIG NO!
People already have a character bazar , and ONLY thing that is missing is ability to rename bought character.
again ............ N O!
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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virm pasuul
FRISKY BUSINESS.
No Handlebars.
319
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:51:19 -
[57] - Quote
My gut reaction is negative, but in my attempt to express logical reasons I can only come up with two things I like about it:
1 It is an skill point sink, it will remove skill points from the game.
The best conversion rate is 1:1 where no skill points are lost. In all other cases more skill points are consumed than released and so skill points are removed. I like the concept of this.
As skill points are removed, the existing skill points will have slightly more value, in theory anyway.
2 It will make the construction of fresh spying alts easier, especially if there is no record of it's use in the API. I like the meta possibilities that may arise from it. For those paying attention it would be fairly easy to spot - skill points versus character age.
3 Encourages muppetry. This was going to be a negative until I realised, no wait that's a positive. If players can bling their characters for RL cash the way they bling their ships then that just means more clueless idiots flying around, who don't have the knowledge of how to play the game properly. I am all for this, more juicy targets for shiney loot and killmails.
against :
It does tilt towards pay to win, but no more than already exists. What's the difference between what's proposed here and buying PLEX to turn into ISK to buy a character. It's just a different way to achieve the same ends. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1989
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 15:51:53 -
[58] - Quote
Izmaragd Dawnstar wrote:By all that is holy, please don't do this.
I think you severely underestimate the min-maxing a lot of people will go through twelve hoops to purchase more and more SP.
Yes, it may be terribly inefficient at high spellpower levels, but running 5 or 10 accounts to fuel one is not unheard of and a lot of people have mountains of isk on their hands.
If you want to deal with SP brickwalls and requirements, there are numerous other ways to do it.
This is highly inefficient compared to simply buying skill packets from the open market. The diminishing returns on skill packets obviates the need to run a personal bastard farm for one character.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Myynti Mies
Solice Technologies
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:52:10 -
[59] - Quote
Please do not do this.
The ability to buy skillpoints is a terrible idea.
We know it's a terrible idea and we know you know it's a terrible idea.
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Cynthia Aishai
Perkone
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:52:41 -
[60] - Quote
worst idea ever
even worse than jump fatigue and the fleet warp change |
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