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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Skinzee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:44:43 -
[571] - Quote
RL MONEY => PLEX => CHARACTER BAZAAR => 100M SP CHARACTER
RL MONEY => AUR => SKILLPOINT BOOST => 100M SP CHARACTER
Difference?
CHARACTERS BIRTH DATE
NO BAD CHARACTER HISTORY FOR SKILLPOINT BOOSTED CHARACTER.
Disagree? Why? |
Vrarrg
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:04 -
[572] - Quote
No this is a horrible idea, if you are really hurting for money then listen to what we have been saying and get those things done. Instead of trying to make the game P2W or even F2P. There have been several good ideas over the past few years you guys pass up or don't even care about. This is a whole new low for CCP to reach. |
Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:14 -
[573] - Quote
I think that saying that this is for newer players is one of two things, 1) a bold faced lie or 2) a complete lack of understanding of EVE by CCP.
Honestly, how can CCP truly believe that this would help new players. If a new player falls for this, then that player now misses out on the whole learning experience. they don't learn why Core Skills are core, they don't spent time in T1 hulls that teach the basics, they don't get to feel like they achieved anything special when they get that T2.
These pilots will also be, right from the start, conditioned that you have to buy PLEX to achieve your goals. Earning it through time and effort will be the poor mans way, and so long as you have money to spare, EVE will offer you anything. Then when these new players get to feeling like they can do it all, after only a week or so, they then get to meet the big bad wolves who have been here for years, and loose it all.
That does nothing to build a new play, but rather makes them think that even with using real money, they have no chance to catch up, when in reality, a 3 day old pilot with a rifter can be a solid pilot in a fleet. We all to often like to make it seem like bigger and better are the only way to win the day, but not that long ago, there where hordes of T1 frigates plowing through this game, owning all they came across.
What truly is key for new players is not skills, nor wallet size, but rather those they meet and choose to fly with. If new player experience is really what is the key point here, then make it so that new players can find groups easier, find mentors, and learn how to play the game within the safety of a team. Be it 5 guys of 5 thousand, it matters little so long as the new pilot gets training from experienced pilots who want to see them grow into long standing Eve players.
If CCP really wants to help new players, finding a way to easily and in some aspect safely find a corp/alliance to join would be a good start, a way that is intrinsic and easy to find, rather than buried under obscurity. |
Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
113
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:26 -
[574] - Quote
Your intention is both inefficient and inelegant.
What I surmise from the whole post is that you want to give newer players the ability to progress faster, and their choice in this is still affected by the knowledge of the game----much like buying a character on the bazaar, increasing the skillpoints on your own character is only as useful as your game experience and knowledge makes it. Ignorant people spending money on characters and skills meet their own hubris.
If you want to place greater adaptability and an ISK value on skillpoints that is more generic and useful than the skillpoints proffered via the character bazaar, make SP accrue over time (similar to DUST, and an idea that has been around for years) as a resource that can be sold in units on the market for ISK. This has it's own negative impacts however, which necessitates mechanics to prevent the abuse, but that's always a part of EVE change.
What I dislike most about the suggested process and the diminishing returns is:
- Making players buy Aurum to buy an item to buy skills (more $ generation for CCP)
- You're rewarding newer players more than presumably loyal players who have spent years playing the game and accruing skillpoints
- It reminds me of boosting in WoW where new players don't like being level 1 and get boosts to quickly get max level to where the real gaming is----EVE is NOT that type of game, and offering loyal players a smaller carrot than a new player is a punishment for being old.
What I cannot shake is that this new item/mechanic was conceptualized to solve [what I and many assume to be] the population problem in EVE. Is CCP worried about new players failing to remain loyal players/are they quitting and not coming back after the first month? Is CCP worried about general population decline?
If you want to justify this change, I ask you to please publish statistics on skill points of current players. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
2037
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:29 -
[575] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:Querns wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Querns wrote:They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game. Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it. This isn't the argument you think it is, at all. He says that this takes no virtually devtime, so the idea that he is complaining about wasted dev time is ridiculous. He is saying that the fix for CCP's cash woes is devtime on content, not bandaids on game mechanics. Read what was said next time, and not what you wanted to hear.
Actually, it's perfectly applicable. He's arguing that Feature X was released and that it is an outrage because Feature Y should have been released instead. That falls foul of the "developer time is perfectly fungible and CCP has no ability to multitask" trap, even with the admission that Feature X was "easy" to do.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
164
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:34 -
[576] - Quote
Ok, so I will take this suggestion seriously for a second and try and offer some constructive feedback.
First of all you do realise this will flood the market with SP as there are so many people with SP spent on skills that are useless to them.
So basically what this will be is an instant level up to 80mil SP; 80mil of unallocated SP. So your making the same mistake that Blizzard made when it effectively removed a good chunk of the starter experience and progressed everyone straight to level 80.
SP currently has a value which is determined by the amount of time it takes to accumulate, this is valued highly as the method by which it accrues can not be modified by play time or grinding and is relatively unchangeable across all characters, and is only marginally modified by implants. So by allowing SP to be traded on the market you will obviously massively reduce the value of SP.
This has many consequences, there are too many for me to detail here, but to put it simply in one fell swoop will destroy what has been a fundamental part of the game for the last 12 years. You will also ruin all of the hard work and good progress CCP have been putting in over the last couple of years to drive eve to be at the cutting edge of MMORPGs.
Why do you want to ruin the starter experience for new players by allowing them to skip through it anyway? The hard fix is to implement a more enjoyable starting experience which I can see you are struggling with and is a difficult task, but this quick fix solution which you suggest is definitely not the way forward. Unfortunately the only way is to carry on with what you have been doing so excellently in the last few years and put in the hard work to make eve a fundamentally better game.
So in essence this idea is one of the worse I've ever seen grace a devblog. I'd even be more inclined towards allowing people to completely wipe their characters name and history when doing a character transfer (with a good chunk of SP lost in the process). This would more elegantly solve the problems you list in the devblog, and most importantly would not devalue SP.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Aram Kachaturian
Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
186
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:42 -
[577] - Quote
Free to play by 2017
Ruler of the Monocle Clubhouse - Skymarshal on a Cosmic Level & Owner of the Wisdom of Kings : The French Prince.
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drunklies
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
13
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:59 -
[578] - Quote
WaypointExit wrote:As a new player, I really like this "idea". After making a mess of the training of my original "main" because I was clueless, I trained some other characters with really focused training plans. The problem is I have joined a corp whose doctrines don't match my brilliant focused training plan. I can fly drone battleships decently, but have 0 missile skills. Well the corp I joined just decided to introduce a missile doctrine. I would love to be able to take some the the proceeds from my industry alt and make this character effective at missiles. I don't necessarily want to buy a character. I like my characters. I see this as an option that let's me keep my sculpted character, yet make myself useful faster. I have the money to buy a character but I didn't like the the thought of using a character I didn't create. It's a bit crazy since it's all pretend, but it just felt strange and not me in some odd way. With this option I can remain my virtual self and be helpful immediately to my new corp. It won't make me a better pilot or give me knowledge about how to fly missile boats, so if I foolishly buy and fly something out of my depth it will just be a donation to a more skilled pilots efficiency rating. I think this proposal is a more flexible variation of buying a character. I could understand better the anger if the option to buy a character did not already exist. All the skill points that are bought in this manner were earned in the same manner as those earned by characters for sell in the character bazaar. This is just more options on how to sell and make use of that investment imo.
Welcome to Eve, your choices have meaning.
Every damn player has a borked to hell first toon with crap all over the place.
Doesn't mean you should be able to crush 6 characters worth of sp and force feed it into the one. |
Aker Krane
OMEGADYNE LABS
Rising Darkness
21
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:46:15 -
[579] - Quote
FANTASTIC IDEA CCP!
Please implement as soon as practical!
This is just awesome!
An elegant solution to tons of crappy alts -- especially those of us with millions of now unnecessary skill points in science
Aker |
Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON.
RAZOR Alliance
151
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:46:26 -
[580] - Quote
Skinzee wrote:Monasucks wrote:
200Gé¼ for 145 SP, which are 6 years and several billion isk - so let's say ~ 1500Gé¼ in subscription alone + at least 10.000Gé¼ in ISK (if done the math converted back over PLEX price to RL money )
So spend ~12000Gé¼ not 100.
Thats a big difference because EVE is build by patiences and time and the social structure that develops in your corp and alliances etc.
You SIR are still in an n00b corp. Guess if you have tomorrow that 145m SP ? I and many other I know would not except you in that corps, for the next few years.
Who taught you maths? Its terrible... 6years = 72months x -ú9.99 = -ú719.28... NOT 10.000Gé¼ Ingame ISK is irrelevant as you cannot sell ISK with character transfer/character bazaar. I would of thought you would of known that considering your in a 'big' alliance... It would be a shame I wouldnt be accepted into your corp :'( The feels... The feels are deep :(
I'm not bad at math - don't forget you need to buy all those skills... imps etc. thats probably the value in Gé¼ you have to spend
Can I haz you're stuff?
[i][b]A good worker is a live worker. Free to live - and work! A bad worker is a dead worker; and vice versa. Don't be a bad worker; bad workers are slaves, and dead. Payday for good workers has been postponed indefinitely. Pa
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
2037
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:46:52 -
[581] - Quote
Tiranius Avetus wrote:So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea...
Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Devin Wallace
Kavashikari
5
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:47:29 -
[582] - Quote
Skinzee wrote:RL MONEY => PLEX => CHARACTER BAZAAR => 100M SP CHARACTER
RL MONEY => AUR => SKILLPOINT BOOST => 100M SP CHARACTER
Difference?
CHARACTERS BIRTH DATE
NO BAD CHARACTER HISTORY FOR SKILLPOINT BOOSTED CHARACTER.
Disagree? Why?
as I said earlier, creating a 100 mil SP character from scratch will either consist of two realities:
1. it will cost $20,000
or
2. it will be impossible because of a limitation of available packets
I hope I don't meet the worm that creates the holes, -ámust be immortal.
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Veishe
Rubbish
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:47:32 -
[583] - Quote
Not Joke? Disgusting idea.
One of learned skill has one history. CCP bros really don't understand what makes EVE char unique. |
Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:47:54 -
[584] - Quote
Skinzee wrote:RL MONEY => PLEX => CHARACTER BAZAAR => 100M SP CHARACTER
RL MONEY => AUR => SKILLPOINT BOOST => 100M SP CHARACTER
Difference?
CHARACTERS BIRTH DATE
NO BAD CHARACTER HISTORY FOR SKILLPOINT BOOSTED CHARACTER.
Disagree? Why?
The difference is that most new players have no clue the Bazaar exists, which means they have to play for a while, learn the basics and either find a group or stumble on it over time. Which means that they have a bit more skill than a first day pilot, with a fat wallet and no clue. |
Cifelli
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:48:06 -
[585] - Quote
Nergart wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.
m what new players? also this does kind of prove my point about the individuals being part of the CSM for their own gains
100% agree
The thing that made eve fun and unique is that it was a very unforgiving game and had the famed steepest learning curve but once you survive it and learn the game and how things work etc it is incredibly fun. Look at every other MMO and u wont find one that has people who have played for literally decades.
I get why you want to make this game more appealing to new people as the older the game gets the more intimidating it is for new people but most have went through it and you enjoy eve thats why you have so many veteran players, CCP has ignored the past year or so the community telling it that it doesnt like potential changes and the attitude has been "we know best so its happening" Active players are dropping, the community is telling you that the game is destroying its self and still you continue to move towards Pay to win to get a quick buck from new people to the game who will pay 30 quid and then get bored and leave.
What would you rather have quick 30 dollars from someone who will get bored and leave or retain your player base who have played for years (and payed and will continue to pay)?
people are leaving in record numbers and there will come a point where ships skins etc wont be enough to hide an income loss for ccp when there is no oneplaying...
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Morphisat
Millard Innovation Inc
The 20 Minuters
58
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:51:19 -
[586] - Quote
Cifelli wrote:
What would you rather have quick 30 dollars from someone who will get bored and leave or retain your player base who have played for years (and payed and will continue to pay)?
people are leaving in record numbers and there will come a point where ships skins etc wont be enough to hide an income loss for ccp when there is no oneplaying...
My guess at the moment is that they rather want the quick 30 quid. A lot of old players use isk to pay for their sub. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
1699
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:51:35 -
[587] - Quote
Just imagine what EVE will look like to new players who are already used to P2W games:
"Oh, it takes me 1 week to train for this ship or I can pay 200$ to buy the SP to do this right away???!!! WTFWORSTP2WEVERBYE!!!"
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Aker Krane
OMEGADYNE LABS
Rising Darkness
21
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:52:36 -
[588] - Quote
Tiranius Avetus wrote:So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea...
They already do.
PLEX |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1747
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:53:07 -
[589] - Quote
For all the reasons put forward in all the threads over the few years I've played about buying ISK I say a huge no.
So now we have 'EvE has consequences...except you can buy your way out of them'? No thanks.
Of Course CCP will do this anyway no matter the opinion of the majority of existing players so at least give us some way to have some benefit from being a long term non-tampered character.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
DARKNESS.
2706
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:53:12 -
[590] - Quote
Querns wrote:Tiranius Avetus wrote:So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea... Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live?
This argument is also disingenuous,
There is a fixed number of character slots per account, and managing an increasing number of accounts becomes increasingly annoying/problematic.
Practically speaking, If I want to fly Sleipnirs TODAY on my main, buying an extra character wouldn't be my solution. But with this system? Let's run some incursions for that dank sp! |
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
338
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:53:33 -
[591] - Quote
Tiranius Avetus wrote:So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea...
Nope, they will sell past time already invested in game by others, to people new into the game.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Juliette Asanari
Saeder-Krupp Trading Division
71
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:53:42 -
[592] - Quote
Hm, I don't like this idea.
Reason a) Right now, the amount of SP a character has some measure of accomplishment. This character right now sits at about 61m SP, which took about 3 years. Now, not to make an "I had to suffer, you shall suffer too"-argument, but should this idea come to pass, a lot of "lower-SP" (airquotes, since i won't consider 20m-30m low...) might become meaningless (Just grind more ISK/PLEX and boost till diminishing returns hit)
b) Right now, I can look at a characters age and get a rough ballpark estimate about the amount of SP said character has. Should this come to pass, that link is broken. A week old character might have "all the things" at V because the player is dumping a metric ton of RL-Cash into the game. Not ideal.
m2c |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Fidelas Constans
453
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:53:55 -
[593] - Quote
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL IS EVE ONLINE!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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Fool Nalelmir
LEX University
Limited Expectations
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:54:48 -
[594] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:Tiranius Avetus wrote:So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea... Nope, they will sell past time already invested in game by others, to people new into the game.
Exactly
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Skinzee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:55:43 -
[595] - Quote
Vrarrg wrote:No this is a horrible idea, if you are really hurting for money then listen to what we have been saying and get those things done. Instead of trying to make the game P2W or even F2P. There have been several good ideas over the past few years you guys pass up or don't even care about. This is a whole new low for CCP to reach.
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THIS CHANGE WOULD MAKE IT PAY TO WIN? |
minni mitti
Demezes Enterprise
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:56:12 -
[596] - Quote
bb eve lol, cup if you don't know how make game better just don't touch it |
Boom Danslesdents
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:56:24 -
[597] - Quote
Just canceled 4 accounts paid with real money.
I think you get my point : Get rid of this whole buying/selling ISK idea. |
Demolishar
United Aggression
1058
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:56:54 -
[598] - Quote
Well this is interesting.
One PLEX gets me 2M skill points or so on a noob alt.
That makes 4 skill packets which get me 200k on my main.
To train all skills is about 500 million SP and I have about 150 million SP (fairly typical situation) so I need 350 million SP.
That's 1750 PLEX or in other words 2 trillion or in other words $26,000.
I wonder how many people will do this. |
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
Circle-Of-Two
123
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:57:14 -
[599] - Quote
To all you Yay Sayers ...coming from a bitter vet the answer is NO. You want to know why it is NO. Because we said so. The only people carrying eve are the old bitter vets..and you know what if we say NO its means Fucken..NO
Do you idiots really for one minute think after this thread that CCP would implement this hmmm ?
I will pull all 5 active acounts with out blinking an eye if this crap hits TQ..now **** off and go and earn your way into Eve.
At the same token CCP if your scrapped for cash just let us know in a honest way and we will support you as far as we can..... |
Skinzee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:57:25 -
[600] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:Tiranius Avetus wrote:So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea... Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live? This argument is also disingenuous, There is a fixed number of character slots per account, and managing an increasing number of accounts becomes increasingly annoying/problematic. Practically speaking, If I want to fly Sleipnirs TODAY on my main, buying an extra character wouldn't be my solution. But with this system? Let's run some incursions for that dank sp!
And what difference would you flying a Sleipnir today rathar than 2 months from now have on me?
Nothing. |
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