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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Tiagra May
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:32:24 -
[541] - Quote
This looks pretty good. I hope people work their way through the suggested changes objectively and come to the conclusion that this isnt as terrible at first glance. |
Xandrah Enaka
Talonclaw Foundation
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:32:46 -
[542] - Quote
I think the only thing I disagree with here mostly is the fact newcomers would now be able to have the same skill base as a veteran player.
But we do have a problem, newcomers to eve always turn away because of the steep slope it is to even compete with veterans or well grounded in players, thus they turn away and flee. |
luobote kong
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:33:25 -
[543] - Quote
Querns wrote:luobote kong wrote:I do not like playing Pay2Win games. A key reason I have stuck at Eve is because it is not Pay2Win. CCP think carefully about this. Did you somehow ignore the part where one can convert PLEX, purchased with RL money, into ISK in the secondary markets?
Well I kept on topic certainly, but I am no fan of that either. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1061
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:33:31 -
[544] - Quote
What does "analogous pricing" mean?
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
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drunklies
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
11
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:34:02 -
[545] - Quote
Fool Nalelmir wrote:drunklies wrote:Doing this would be like selling the soul of the game. That CCP can't see that, and have gone so far as to publish a DEV BLOG about it, shows how they as a company have degraded. Last week I was looking forward to Vegas, despite the idiotic idea to not stream the 2 most important talk this entire year, but now... New players are all well and good, but vets have earned their place, and catering to bullsh*t entitlement will drive the valuable players away, without generating any real replacement. Mike Azariah wrote:For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.
m Sure, let me rip all the heritage out of my characters and of eve itself, cause some mewling newbie thinks they deserve to skip past the hoops that everyone else jumped through. I was also looking forward to Vegas before this derp I wasted money again maybe.
I was going to wait until vegas to decide on adding more game time to my accounts. Now I barely think it's worth bothering to watch reddit for the announcements. Eve is being prepped for free to play, pay to win. I just wish it wasn't the only game that has the potential to be ******* interesting. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2705
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:34:09 -
[546] - Quote
Querns wrote: "I suffered, so everyone else has to suffer too, or my suffering has lost meaning."
That's Eve. That harsh universe where your choices matter, where it's an uphill battle every step of the way. THAT sells eve. Want to create your character defined by the choices you and you alone have made. You plan meticulously to use the time that is given to you in the best way possible. You can buy a character that someone else crafted, but if you want a character named and tailored to your exact needs? Only one way to do that - as it should be.
But now? F*ck it. Run some level 4's or incursions and buy some SP for my main. F*ck that noise. |
WaypointExit
Moosearmy Gentlemen's.Parlor
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:34:23 -
[547] - Quote
As a new player, I really like this "idea". After making a mess of the training of my original "main" because I was clueless, I trained some other characters with really focused training plans. The problem is I have joined a corp whose doctrines don't match my brilliant focused training plan. I can fly drone battleships decently, but have 0 missile skills. Well the corp I joined just decided to introduce a missile doctrine. I would love to be able to take some the the proceeds from my industry alt and make this character effective at missiles. I don't necessarily want to buy a character. I like my characters. I see this as an option that let's me keep my sculpted character, yet make myself useful faster. I have the money to buy a character but I didn't like the the thought of using a character I didn't create. It's a bit crazy since it's all pretend, but it just felt strange and not me in some odd way. With this option I can remain my virtual self and be helpful immediately to my new corp. It won't make me a better pilot or give me knowledge about how to fly missile boats, so if I foolishly buy and fly something out of my depth it will just be a donation to a more skilled pilots efficiency rating. I think this proposal is a more flexible variation of buying a character. I could understand better the anger if the option to buy a character did not already exist. All the skill points that are bought in this manner were earned in the same manner as those earned by characters for sell in the character bazaar. This is just more options on how to sell and make use of that investment imo. |
Skilo
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
20
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:34:33 -
[548] - Quote
Querns wrote:luobote kong wrote:I do not like playing Pay2Win games. A key reason I have stuck at Eve is because it is not Pay2Win. CCP think carefully about this. Did you somehow ignore the part where one can convert PLEX, purchased with RL money, into ISK in the secondary markets?
This allows you to get the ships or guns or ammo or whatever you want
But if you don't have the skills to use them ... ups
Now this changes that don't you think?
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2035
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:34:43 -
[549] - Quote
luobote kong wrote:Querns wrote:luobote kong wrote:I do not like playing Pay2Win games. A key reason I have stuck at Eve is because it is not Pay2Win. CCP think carefully about this. Did you somehow ignore the part where one can convert PLEX, purchased with RL money, into ISK in the secondary markets? Well I kept on topic certainly, but I am no fan of that either. It's on topic insofar as it is evidence against your point.
Eve has been "P2W" for a very long time. It's fundamental to its existence, really. Goodness knows I wouldn't have stuck around Eve for as long as I have if there wasn't a ready supply of people willing to pay my subscription in exchange for my space shekels.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Vendictus Prime
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:34:44 -
[550] - Quote
The list is so long on things that should have been worked on with the time wasted on this bad idea. |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3511
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:36:07 -
[551] - Quote
Kilian Katar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Kilian Katar wrote: FFS, read the Dev Blog and engage the brain people.
No **** sherlock, but when you extract that SP you can apply it anywhere so its worth is actually far more than when it is hard wired in some characters head. ALSO as an item in game, like plex it could be destroyed so CCP is not only allowing the destruction of money via plex, but also the destruction of skillpoints. (let alone the skill points that vanish into thin air when applied to characters not on the minimum threshhold) When a PLEX is destroyed no money is destroyed. As for the rest, so what? Yes SP packets will be more valuable given they can be applied anywhere. Don't care.
"engage brain please" where does plex come from, it comes from real money purchase, when that item is destroyed rather than used which hundreds have been, the money is effectively destroyed (players get little to no return on the purchase), the only one benefiting is CCP, which will be the case here too.[/quote]
It is no longer money when it is a PLEX.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Daenna Chrysi
Omega Foundry Unit The Ditanian Alliance
115
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:36:35 -
[552] - Quote
No, just no...
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Kilian Katar
Tenth Company
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:36:41 -
[553] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:What does "analogous pricing" mean?
A price proportional to its use, IE say a plex gains you 1m sp in a month, then the item if it was 500k would be worth half a plex (rough numbers nothing confirmed or worked out) |
GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
88
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:37:47 -
[554] - Quote
There's a lot of problems for new players getting into this game, this is not the way.
Many millions of skillpoint in core skills are EVIL, Its much the same as learning skills and is in a way hazing. Long grinds of skills were Meaningful before the majority of the playerbase had these skills. As EVE ages the acceptable amount of skillpoint's for a PVP character slowly rises as multi-doctrines become commonplace. Being able to swap from doctrine to doctrine is very powerful as is the game of rock paper scissors, having a counter fleet is very powerful.
I remember when plex for REMAPS got dumpstered, this goes so far beyond that in a negative way.
The largest problem with this is if it becomes commonplace for new players to buy skillpoint's it sets a very bad precedent for EVE's *bang for buck* compared to other games. Considering this is a pay to play game in the age of free to play or buy to play games becoming commonplace this is a very bad decision.
On top of everything previously stated the amount of skillpoints being transferred seems rather low, the 80mil sp blockade is degrading to someone who has mistrained their character. Should it not be possible to pull a skill from your character you do not want to make unallocated skillpoints to spend on that character? |
NorthCrossroad
EVE University Ivy League
93
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:39:24 -
[555] - Quote
Hi
All the things that you said are bad like the current Bazaar or inability to change some attributes of the character are indeed need some work on. But aren't there others way to do it? Like, more in line with the actual game?
If you want to clear your background and change your name f.e. - either pay PLEX/Auru or do a very specific mission arc, which will get the player to work to make it happen (you do remember that we need a much better version of mission system, right? Good starting project over here).
If you want to allow characters (especially younger) to somewhat fasten their skill progression - create a mission arc that will award some "inhibitor", that will be usable by the character itself. And in these "inhibitors" have the diminishing return as you described, so older players won't get that much benefit.
But for the love of god, stop even thinking about selling SPs for cash.
P.S. I wonder, how did guys in CCP chose whose name will be under the DEV Blog? Did Rise do something very wrong? |
drunklies
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
12
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:39:37 -
[556] - Quote
Xandrah Enaka wrote:I think the only thing I disagree with here mostly is the fact newcomers would now be able to have the same skill base as a veteran player.
But we do have a problem, newcomers to eve always turn away because of the steep slope it is to even compete with veterans or well grounded in players, thus they turn away and flee.
Giving them buckets of sp wouldn't help. The learning barrier of eve isnt sp, it;s player skill and knowledge.
It could very easily be argued that selling new players sp so that they can compete with older players would result in a flash bubble of idiots investing 100's of dollars before discovering that sp means mostly jack ****, and raging out with bad reviews, killing off all new player retention.
FFS, it's just moving the issue of "I dont have enough SP" to "I dont have the inherent skills", only the second one is far more difficult to pinpoint, and impossible to scapegoat. At least the SP line is demonstrably refutable, the same cant be said for pilot error. |
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
689
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:40:20 -
[557] - Quote
Niraia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:a guy I know asked me, "how's eve?"
Knowing he was possibly interested in joining the game to play it with me, and me being a completely honest person I had to immediately approach the situation with truth.
"it's fun, but I've had this guy subbed for 8 months now and I'm just now getting to the point where I will soon be able to properly fly only a small fraction of available ships with the proper skills."
I can't recommend the game to him and others because I know he wont be able to actually do things with me and be a fair contributor to my goals for almost a year.
I'm egotistical and narcissistic and #thebest and all, but even I can't lie to a friend and try tricking him into joining the game when I know full well that he will be disappointed with the options available to him.
At least now I'll be able to tell him, "join now and we can grind you isk for a month and be able to start buying skills to help you get to where I am and we can both fly around space dominating dudes together". If you aren't having fun now, you probably won't have fun with lots of SP either. It's your attitude that leads to bullshit game design and stupid ideas like this. Thanks.
Incorrect, but nice try.
you're welcome |
Eternal Bob
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:41:11 -
[558] - Quote
LOL @ the tears. Did any of you whingers actually stop and think about this for a moment? It's a sound idea. |
Seraphim Raven
League of Raven
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:41:30 -
[559] - Quote
Reallocating skill points at ~0.8 ratio would be great , but being able to sell them is an absolute pay2win feature and should never appear in EVE.
It would be awesome to be able to pay something like 500m ISK (or a 50% plex price variable ) and 500m SP to get 400M SP back as long as its an instant gain of unallocated skill points which you cant trade by any reason. We don't really need a thousand of "100m sp in first day of gameplay" rich kids. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. I N F A M O U S
510
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:41:52 -
[560] - Quote
This means from now on no matter what decision you make in the game it has no consequence any more? Just buy some more SP to get all the ships you want to fly, without any effort.
Secondly i think this is actually a bad idea for newer players. They will buy those packs with real money, and extra money for expensive items as well, and lose that money rapidly because they haven't learned how to play, and leave the game even faster then they already do.
And yes I know the CB exists, but it is hardly used by newer players, and I think that is a good thing.
Please don't do this CCP. |
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Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group
160
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:41:55 -
[561] - Quote
This change is bad, it will be abused and exploited by the vets and ignored or even drive away newbies. It will have some use to people that are really starting to get in to eve say a year or so in, and it will be great to get rid of things on your characters you don't want cluttering it up. But the bad FAR outweighs the good here.
Listen to your customers, add a rename option that leaves a list of aliases, kinda like our current career history. Give us a way to get rid of skills on our charaters, we don't even need to get anything in return but if we where to get some unassigned skill points for it, it would need to be VERY slow, like 1-2 mill a year.
Querns wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Querns wrote:They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game. Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it.
This isn't the argument you think it is, at all. He says that this takes no virtually devtime, so the idea that he is complaining about wasted dev time is ridiculous. He is saying that the fix for CCP's cash woes is devtime on content, not bandaids on game mechanics.
Read what was said next time, and not what you wanted to hear. |
Castelo Selva
Forcas armadas DARKNESS.
82
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:42:02 -
[562] - Quote
NO! For the first time in my more than a decade of Eve I have to say that, if this happens, I ill cancel all my accounts.
Do not sell Eve core game play. I cannot believe your company are so desperate to get money. I am pretty sure you have more way to help the new players.
Best post ever!
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Tiranius Avetus
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
2
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:42:09 -
[563] - Quote
So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money. ******** idea... |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2035
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:42:18 -
[564] - Quote
NorthCrossroad wrote:Hi
All the things that you said are bad like the current Bazaar or inability to change some attributes of the character are indeed need some work on. But aren't there others way to do it? Like, more in line with the actual game?
If you want to clear your background and change your name f.e. - either pay PLEX/Auru or do a very specific mission arc, which will get the player to work to make it happen (you do remember that we need a much better version of mission system, right? Good starting project over here).
If you want to allow characters (especially younger) to somewhat fasten their skill progression - create a mission arc that will award some "inhibitor", that will be usable by the character itself. And in these "inhibitors" have the diminishing return as you described, so older players won't get that much benefit.
But for the love of god, stop even thinking about selling SPs for cash.
P.S. I wonder, how did guys in CCP chose whose name will be under the DEV Blog? Did Rise do something very wrong? Name changes and history wipes are nice in theory, but the preponderance of third party sites that track and cache this information would make it a fool's game to use and in fact would be a greater red flag than the unwanted corp history in the first place.
Even with a name change, the character's internal character_id wouldn't change. This allows one to plug it into a database like evewho's and get the real scoop on the character.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Fool Nalelmir
LEX University Limited Expectations
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:42:25 -
[565] - Quote
You know I just had a thought.
So a new player is gonna be like I can just buy SP and then he is going to get into some ship and do all the things he can do with it in about a week. Then because he isn't the type to wait and work towards something long term will then be like well eve sucks and then move on to something else telling his buddies meh eve sucks I beat it in two weeks lol.
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Alexis Nightwish
333
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:43:01 -
[566] - Quote
CCP did you you not read the stickied megathread on F&I? Did you not already see the overwhelming opposition to this? Didn't the CSM saying it's a bad idea give you pause?
This is pay to win, pure and simple. Anyone with lots of RL money or even someone who is space rich can buy power with this scheme. If you think that cost is going to be a barrier you need to take a look at your game's history. Start with supercapitals and go from there.
Some may argue that the character bazaar was just p2w and this is no different, but that's incorrect. With the bazaar you had to buy the whole character with all the implications of doing so:
Takes one of your few character slots The account it's on (if separate from your main) needs to be active to be able to actually use the character If you want to train the character you have to purchase PLEX or stop training the account's other character(s) Only one character per account can be logged in at a time so any other characters are locked out while this one is in use The character may have irrelevant or redundant skills you don't need/want The character may have a negative history (corp thief, etc.) or bad standings The character may have a look or name you don't like
With your new scheme (and it is a scheme), none of those counter weights to the p2w nature of the character bazaar will apply, and there will be a mass exodus of paying customers.
Ironically, the greedier you get, the less money you make.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Kilian Katar
Tenth Company
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:43:04 -
[567] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Kilian Katar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: FFS, read the Dev Blog and engage the brain people.
No **** sherlock, but when you extract that SP you can apply it anywhere so its worth is actually far more than when it is hard wired in some characters head. ALSO as an item in game, like plex it could be destroyed so CCP is not only allowing the destruction of money via plex, but also the destruction of skillpoints. (let alone the skill points that vanish into thin air when applied to characters not on the minimum threshhold) When a PLEX is destroyed no money is destroyed. As for the rest, so what? Yes SP packets will be more valuable given they can be applied anywhere. Don't care.
"engage brain please" where does plex come from, it comes from real money purchase, when that item is destroyed rather than used which hundreds have been, the money is effectively destroyed (players get little to no return on the purchase), the only one benefiting is CCP, which will be the case here too.[/quote]
It is no longer money when it is a PLEX. [/quote]
It may not be technically money, but it still holds real money value, its worth being 30 days of game time, and based on how much ccp sells plex for. Every plex in game bar those given at the alliance tournament is purchased by someone for real world currency, if it is destroyed, and not used it only benefits CCP, much as with these items, If destroyed or used on a character of higher SP because they are made as you also said, from SP of other players, will be SP destroyed from the game. Something CCP recently removed when they removed the clone upgrades and now only happens when you lose a T3 cruiser. |
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
36
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:43:47 -
[568] - Quote
I usually don-Št complain on the forum, but this is a very bad idea. Do not want. |
Josef Kennet
Zima Corp Infinity Space.
16
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:43:48 -
[569] - Quote
NO
Any SP trade between characters is P2W: - Create ___ (insert number) accounts - Train then for ___ (insert time frame) - Sell SP to your Main Its basically direct plex to sp convertation with some time delay...
Ideas: - Ingame\web char bazar with filters etc - When you buy character you enter new name for it and corp history consist only from 1 NPC corp - Increase fee for character transfer About SP: - SP Remapping may work only within character |
Eternal Bob
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:44:14 -
[570] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:This means from now on no matter what decision you make in the game it has no consequence any more? Just buy some more SP to get all the ships you want to fly, without any effort.
Tell me all about the effort needed to gain skill points currently. |
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