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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy
Caldari State
78
   |
Posted - 2015.11.26 17:00:40 -
[1] - Quote
The game has become very risk averse making it dull, boring and predictable. As much as that makes this sound like a rant, it's far from it. The question is what 3 things would you change of eve pvp?
I am PVP orientated so my three things are all aimed at trying to get people out of their comfort zones and away from being risk averse and get people looking for the GF's rather than the safe fights.
1. EWAR - needs a complete rethink, this contributes the biggest factor of risk aversion and is an "I WIN" button.
2. Logi ships - another contribution to the "I WIN" button, they tend to be the decision to go out and roam or not to go out and roam, as well as the decision to engage or not to engage, it always comes down to if your bringing 10 logi ships i am bringing 15.
3. Neutral repping ships in wars; another contribution to the massive risk aversion.
I now wait the forum trolls to try to frame the my 3 points as fail. Before you do I want you to consider what the game used to be like before EWAR and Logi came into the game, that period of the game was the most enjoyable for me and many of the friends I made who unsubbed for the reasons of trying to make content but always competing against the game plays that roll out with the points above. |
Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers
Fidelas Constans
21
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 17:42:34 -
[2] - Quote
You mean to say that, because new elements of gameplay were added to diversify the PvP nature of EVE Online, it has become "risk aversive"?
EWAR and Logistics are meant to make the PvP aspect of EVE about more than "lock on, click, blow up target", and add another element of strategy to the game. The point is to out-think and out-plan your enemy. If you are complaining about stuff like EWAR and Logistics, then it seems like the complaint is about not being able to out-think the enemy. They are not "I WIN" buttons if you are a good enough to be able to coordinate your fleets to neutralize them.
I will ignore the Neutral repping point, because I am not entirely familiar with it.
Point being, you talk about "risk aversion" with EWAR and Logistics, but you also point towards them being "I WIN" buttons which, as I pointed out above, seems to point towards you having been blown out of the sky a number of times by Combat-EWAR/Combat-Logi ship pairs in the past. In other words, you just want your PvP to be "easier", and that seems to be true "risk aversion" - the removal of your target's means to out-match you.
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zelalot
OMB Corp
5
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Posted - 2015.11.26 17:59:25 -
[3] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:The game has become very risk averse making it dull, boring and predictable. As much as that makes this sound like a rant, it's far from it. The question is what 3 things would you change of eve pvp?
I am PVP orientated so my three things are all aimed at trying to get people out of their comfort zones and away from being risk averse and get people looking for the GF's rather than the safe fights.
1. EWAR - needs a complete rethink, this contributes the biggest factor of risk aversion and is an "I WIN" button.
2. Logi ships - another contribution to the "I WIN" button, they tend to be the decision to go out and roam or not to go out and roam, as well as the decision to engage or not to engage, it always comes down to if your bringing 10 logi ships i am bringing 15.
3. Neutral repping ships in wars; another contribution to the massive risk aversion.
I now wait the forum trolls to try to frame the my 3 points as fail. Before you do I want you to consider what the game used to be like before EWAR and Logi came into the game, that period of the game was the most enjoyable for me and many of the friends I made who unsubbed for the reasons of trying to make content but always competing against the game plays that roll out with the points above.
Pryce Caesar wrote:You mean to say that, because new elements of gameplay were added to diversify the PvP nature of EVE Online, it has become "risk aversive"?
EWAR and Logistics are meant to make the PvP aspect of EVE about more than "lock on, click, blow up target", and add another element of strategy to the game. The point is to out-think and out-plan your enemy. If you are complaining about stuff like EWAR and Logistics, then it seems like the complaint is about not being able to out-think the enemy. They are not "I WIN" buttons if you are a good enough to be able to coordinate your fleets to neutralize them.
I will ignore the Neutral repping point, because I am not entirely familiar with it.
Point being, you talk about "risk aversion" with EWAR and Logistics, but you also point towards them being "I WIN" buttons which, as I pointed out above, seems to point towards you having been blown out of the sky a number of times by Combat-EWAR/Combat-Logi ship pairs in the past. In other words, you just want your PvP to be "easier", and that seems to be true "risk aversion" - the removal of your target's means to out-match you.
I have to agree with the OP. I think there is too much. too many unknowns and therefore people don't want to engage meaning yes risk aversion. I wouldn't call them I win buttons but I would go as far as saying EWAR and logi are fight spoilers with the team that can bring the most EWAR and logi being the out right winners.
To me my three things are:
1. Ewar and logi should be reworked.
2. more mission related to actual pvp content
3. somehow get the game to be less risk averse. |
Gods Prophet
Rockets Uber Alles
23
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Posted - 2015.11.26 18:03:41 -
[4] - Quote
1. Come up with a new motivation for living and working in Null Sec. "Empire Building" just isn't cutting it anymore.
2. Completely rework the war dec mechanic so Wars are fun for both the decced and the deccer
3. Create a Bounty Hunter system that allows criminals in hi sec to be hunted in a way that is fun for the hunter and the criminal |
ll Kuray ll
The Scope
Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 18:20:53 -
[5] - Quote
1. Improve ways for people to asses the battlefield.
I have to agree:
2. EWAR rethink
3. Logi rethink
Eve isn't a game of skill anymore and I think this has contributed to the downfall of the game. |
HeXxploiT
Big Diggers
Get Off My Lawn
189
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 18:37:50 -
[6] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:The game has become very risk averse...
Perhaps you should stop flying cheap ships and then tell me it's risk averse.
I assure you if you're flying in something bigger and more expensive than an atron with T1 rigs you'll find the game a little more interesting. Try fitting up a couple of blingy cruisers or faction battleships, go do some pvp in low or nul and then come back and tell me how risk averse it is.
Troll... |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9306
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 18:46:33 -
[7] - Quote
It's called a 'comfort zone' for a reason.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
475
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 19:06:10 -
[8] - Quote
I've said this for years, and a thin minority manages to shout it down, though the majority really wants it:
1.) Make piracy a crime against the sovereignty where it occurs.
2.) Make the pirate(s) criminals with that sovereignty in all its systems.
3.) Make the punishment fit the crime; hefty/hurtful fines, banishment from said sovereignty's systems till it's paid.
Make the back story, the underlying characters and events MEANINGFUL by bringing them into the IMMERSION in a real and meaningful way. Discourage penny ante fly by night vandals from trashing the game with pedestrian and tawdry antics. Make racial sovereignty REAL.
PS "Risk averse" is a slogan invented by the minority PvP-ers hoping it will force management to turn EVE (and other games, as well) into a strictly PvP game, even though these people comprise 20% (or so) of video gamers worldwide (www). When you see "risk averse" in a post, remember it's there to obfuscate and confuse, because the people who use it know they can't win by just being honest with their intentions and ambitions. So, they're resorting to a con job.
Paranoia strikes deep....
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Yang Aurilen
TunDraGon
Project.Mayhem.
988
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 19:34:56 -
[9] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:The game has become very risk averse making it dull, boring and predictable. As much as that makes this sound like a rant, it's far from it. The question is what 3 things would you change of eve pvp?
I am PVP orientated so my three things are all aimed at trying to get people out of their comfort zones and away from being risk averse and get people looking for the GF's rather than the safe fights.
1. EWAR - needs a complete rethink, this contributes the biggest factor of risk aversion and is an "I WIN" button.
2. Logi ships - another contribution to the "I WIN" button, they tend to be the decision to go out and roam or not to go out and roam, as well as the decision to engage or not to engage, it always comes down to if your bringing 10 logi ships i am bringing 15.
3. Neutral repping ships in wars; another contribution to the massive risk aversion.
I now wait the forum trolls to try to frame the my 3 points as fail. Before you do I want you to consider what the game used to be like before EWAR and Logi came into the game, that period of the game was the most enjoyable for me and many of the friends I made who unsubbed for the reasons of trying to make content but always competing against the game plays that roll out with the points above.
1. Whiny people
2. Whiny people who refuse to GIT GUD
3. Whiny people who can't think their way out of a problem even if the solution is in their hands with instruction sheets on how to use the said solution
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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iforumizer Hamabu
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 19:48:53 -
[10] - Quote
1. undocking at 15km.
2. Cleaner UI. EVE is pretty, but the action is often burried behind too many windows
3. WIS |
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Paranoid Loyd
7551
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Posted - 2015.11.26 20:00:37 -
[11] - Quote
1) People who make new threads when all it is the same thing the last thread they opened said but slightly different.
2) People who use the term risk averse and then post with an alt they don't use in game.
3) People who whine about the things they should be figuring out how to use to their advantage instead of whining about them.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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mojogore
Deep Structure.
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 20:13:01 -
[12] - Quote
1) Add split screen for 2 accounts
2) redo battleships
3) Walking in station gambling casino, strip bar, ship spinner speed control. |
ll Kuray ll
The Scope
Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 02:07:57 -
[13] - Quote
HeXxploiT, Yang Aurilen, Paranoid Loyd
You three have to be forum trolls really... no idea why you waste time writing criticism.
Game must be fine - i mean it's one of the lowest active users this evening... yeah thats right game is doing just fine.
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Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
32
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 02:38:01 -
[14] - Quote
1) bounty system
2) salvage drones not stacking things neatly in the hold
3) the idea that mining is not free |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40935
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 03:10:10 -
[15] - Quote
1. Sibyyl is in the wrong Corp. I would move her to The Vendunari
2. LAGL thread was overheating the servers so was closed. Reopen the old one
3. I am a scrub at pvp. Make pvp easier for scrubs like me
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Neph
Operation Meatshield
Plexodus
216
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 03:18:18 -
[16] - Quote
1) Make battleships fearsome
2) Split the screen, let me have my tactical, useful, info-full screen and then a pretty view of my ship while I die horribly. The immersion of zooming in makes fighting a lot more personal and fun, but obviously you die if you're not zoomed out with velocity stats filling the screen
3) Let me wear Jin-Mei clothes when I'm character customizing in a Jin-Mei station!
Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1681
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 04:11:15 -
[17] - Quote
1 Remove lvl 4 and incursions from high sec
2 diminish jump drive/bridge capabilities even further
3 remove off grid boosting |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40937
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 04:25:52 -
[18] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:3 remove off grid boosting
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3ue8fe/off_grid_links_removal_confirmed/
Might still be a bit off as development is concentrating on Citadels and Capitals, but it's coming.
As someone that trained up a max boosting alt, I can't wait for the change. Adapting to a new approach will be fun. I was hoping for a change a bit more creative than just on grid with AOE, but whatever CCP does will be fine.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
FETID
137
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 05:20:16 -
[19] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:
2. Logi ships - another contribution to the "I WIN" button, they tend to be the decision to go out and roam or not to go out and roam, as well as the decision to engage or not to engage, it always comes down to if your bringing 10 logi ships i am bringing 15.
Logi is not OP i have solo engaged a oneros and a gila (in my gila) killed te logi and then killed the gila... 
-áIf people played EVE as much as they posted rubbish on these forums, they might enjoy the game.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40937
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 05:24:33 -
[20] - Quote
Bruce Kemp wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:
2. Logi ships - another contribution to the "I WIN" button, they tend to be the decision to go out and roam or not to go out and roam, as well as the decision to engage or not to engage, it always comes down to if your bringing 10 logi ships i am bringing 15.
Logi is not OP i have solo engaged a oneros and a gila (in my gila) killed te logi and then killed the gila...
Yeah no one really complains about it at the small gang level.
It's more an issue at the block level fleet engagements where the decision about fight or flight comes down to whether there is enough DPS to punch through the opposition logistic reps or not. The side with the best logistics has the upper hand.
Some the upcoming changes will hopefully rebalance the nullsec logistics without changing small gang use too much.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13027
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Posted - 2015.11.27 05:42:28 -
[21] - Quote
I've always thought the way logi works is over the top. I think reps from logi should stack with other logi. The problem with that is that people will just math their way to bigger fleets that can alpha through the maximum amount of repping available. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
760
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 05:47:21 -
[22] - Quote
1. Missiles and guns. Long post, but here was my proposal: Weapon Tiericide V2
2. Damage stacking, to work along side part one. Also posted, but way back in ye old forums: Dymamic fleet pvp
Jenn aSide wrote:I've always thought the way logi works is over the top. I think reps from logi should stack with other logi. The problem with that is that people will just math their way to bigger fleets that can alpha through the maximum amount of repping available.
3. Fix logistics N+1. No post for this because is more recent idea. Take the range bonus off logistic T2 as well as the fitting reduction bonus for the Logi cruisers. This makes logi cruisers medium reps for both. In it's place, they can fit a subcap style logistics module similar to bastion. Enable it, and get the fun RR range and other bonuses for the T2 variants. So massive active tank and the range plus rep bonuses, but unable to take reps. They are still effective in the spider tank, but then without the incredible range, thus limiting N+1.
Active tank means they can function like a triage carrier, take some pounding without the reps, but a limit to it. Suddenly a fleet has some issues, dps, or logi. Logi are high tank, so spend time taking them out, or try to blast way past other ships. Too many logi, and not enough to stop enemy damage. Slow death as logi taken out, then back to the damage dealers.
On top of that, new battleships would be required. T1 logistics battleship following the guide for the T1 frig and cruiser. T2 battleship would be a logistics command ship to fill the gap between cruiser and capital. Following same guide, this still will limit the N+1. With ongrid boosting coming, it also means a heavier command ship as well to fit between the battlecruisers, and the capitals.
B-B-B-Bonus Round!
I made this years ago for the ship design contest. People still ask, and I still want one. With sov space gaining benefits to self reliance, these could be quite useful. It was a lot of work, so not going to let it just fade away! Please CCP???
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium.
530
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 07:05:50 -
[23] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:The game has become very risk averse making it dull, boring and predictable. As much as that makes this sound like a rant, it's far from it. The question is what 3 things would you change of eve pvp?
I am PVP orientated so my three things are all aimed at trying to get people out of their comfort zones and away from being risk averse and get people looking for the GF's rather than the safe fights.
1. EWAR - needs a complete rethink, this contributes the biggest factor of risk aversion and is an "I WIN" button.
2. Logi ships - another contribution to the "I WIN" button, they tend to be the decision to go out and roam or not to go out and roam, as well as the decision to engage or not to engage, it always comes down to if your bringing 10 logi ships i am bringing 15.
3. Neutral repping ships in wars; another contribution to the massive risk aversion.
I now wait the forum trolls to try to frame the my 3 points as fail. Before you do I want you to consider what the game used to be like before EWAR and Logi came into the game, that period of the game was the most enjoyable for me and many of the friends I made who unsubbed for the reasons of trying to make content but always competing against the game plays that roll out with the points above.
1: Ewar is an essential part of PvP..you either use it or you don't. It is NOT a guaranteed win and skills and strategy can circumvent it. I admit, it sucks to be on the recieving end of it..but it's very nice to dish it. It's a matter of planning, cooperation, and fleet strategy to both implement and counter ewar. Ewar can be countered with eccm, training the proper sensor skills, and ewar of your own. Make use of it in any way you can.
2: Logi is another aspect of PvP that is there to make fights last. Logi is essential as well. It saves the game from being boring and a matter of who fits more armor deciding the winner. In order to utilize logi to its potential, you need fleet cooperation and planning. To me it sounds as if you have had trouble organizing proper logi for your fleets or have been "out logi'ed" in fleets. This can be an issue I admit, but that's why Eve is a social game. Some battles you cannot win alone..and logi doesn't determine the winner either..they are extremely vulverable and weak..especially to ewar. Use them both to maximize your advantage.
3: Neutral logi..now this one is touchy. Neutral logi is what sepparates hs warefare from null and low. In null and low..anyone in local who isn't blue is an enemy. In hs, you don't know who the enemy is. Sure, the wts flash..but their scouts, logi, and links don't. This adds a whole new level to fighting. You have to weigh your chances and choose your fights wisely rather than dropping in on a target and being an f1 monkey. Also, neutral logi is not invulnerable. Once they rep, they go suspect making them a target not only for the wts..but everyone in system. This is a chance a neutral logi pilot must accept and take. To assume a neutral logi is somehow untouchable is incorrect..in fact, they are more vulnerable than a logi that is in the wt corp.
There's my 2 cents 
ll Kuray ll wrote:HeXxploiT, Yang Aurilen, Paranoid Loyd
You three have to be forum trolls really... no idea why you waste time writing criticism.
Game must be fine - i mean it's one of the lowest active users this evening... yeah thats right game is doing just fine.
That's because today is a major US holiday..just fyi 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1029
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 07:19:12 -
[24] - Quote
- No chat/only invite to local.
- I can walk where i want
- No high sec. But with concord all around space. If you **** some one and some one see it you get your balls burn but if not your kill is golden |
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
653
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 08:46:05 -
[25] - Quote
1. Make Uedama new Mega trading hub.
2. Remove T1 logi cruisers.
3. After pilot been podded make it 12 hrs freeze period for any activity. So basically re-podding would actually became time consume factor. No SP's are trained during this 12 hrs. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1681
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 09:35:23 -
[26] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I've always thought the way logi works is over the top. I think reps from logi should stack with other logi. The problem with that is that people will just math their way to bigger fleets that can alpha through the maximum amount of repping available.
There's a very easy solution to this which will also have a massive impact on current doctrines etc (which is good). A logi doesn't actually repair but by activating his module on another ship it augments that ship's own repper where it reps a whole lot more. First of all it doesn't help if you stack it because only the single biggest bonus from any activated module applies. It also removes the lol EHP fits and you'll actually have to choose: run EHP fleet or have logis which also require the rest of your pilots to adapt and pay attention. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
760
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 19:21:41 -
[27] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I've always thought the way logi works is over the top. I think reps from logi should stack with other logi. The problem with that is that people will just math their way to bigger fleets that can alpha through the maximum amount of repping available. There's a very easy solution to this which will also have a massive impact on current doctrines etc (which is good). A logi doesn't actually repair but by activating his module on another ship it augments that ship's own repper where it reps a whole lot more. First of all it doesn't help if you stack it because only the single biggest bonus from any activated module applies. It also removes the lol EHP fits and you'll actually have to choose: run EHP fleet or have logis which also require the rest of your pilots to adapt and pay attention.
Wow! Intruiging concept. Definitely worth possibly more discussion. I can think some bits that kinda would take away from active logi, most notably would be tag along logi alts. Would detract from a playstyle that otherwise favors the soloplay
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
1318
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 19:26:23 -
[28] - Quote
Something something something wardecs.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Jon Essler
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.11.27 19:29:06 -
[29] - Quote
1) Delete the Goons
2) Introduce a new playable race: the Nai T'Elph
3) Selfie cam for CQ. |
Valacus
Streets of Fire
54
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Posted - 2015.11.27 19:37:07 -
[30] - Quote
1) Remove off grid boosting. They put command ships in the game with massive tanks, then allow us to use them off grid, so everyone uses them off grid. Every fleet has to have one, but no fleet has to risk one. What is so wrong with requiring people to put their boosters on the field?
2) Rebalance ECM. I think the mechanic itself needs to change, not just tinkering with the RNG. Being unable to lock anything is just way more potent than any other form of EWAR.
3) Find a solution for AFK cloaking. |
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