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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
bulabuba
Gallente Klima Galactic
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Posted - 2007.01.31 05:43:00 -
[91]
Edited by: bulabuba on 31/01/2007 05:43:50 Edited by: bulabuba on 31/01/2007 05:42:53 Edited by: bulabuba on 31/01/2007 05:39:57
I for one am glad that this wasn't handled privately. There have been allegations for a long time that devs were actively playing in the game in certain alliances. The response to these allegations has always been along the lines of "Proof or STFU". Regardless of whether this investigation turns up wrong-doing or not, the fact remains that there was a dev playing in an alliance that has been often accused of (and vehemently denied) having devs playing for them. Here's the proof, so I guess nobody has to STFU anymore.
To CCP:
You should not have devs playing this game on the live server. Period, end of story. This is a competitive game, and even if these devs aren't doing anything wrong that would favor the alliances that they play for, it stinks of it, and that is nothing but bad for your reputation as a company, and the reputation of the game.
If devs want to play, they should play on the test server where what they can or can't do doesn't really matter. I would hope that you will take this opportunity to announce that you have established a policy of no devs playing on TQ. Lets keep the reputation of the game above reproach.
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Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No.
-DB Preacher[BoB] |
arkarsk
Provenance.
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Posted - 2007.01.31 05:49:00 -
[92]
Originally by: bulabuba words
Asking devs to stop playing the game they created in the way it was intended to be played is the worst idea i've ever heard. The furthest I would go is to not allow CCP employees into 0.0 alliances, but even that sounds ridiculous. ----------------- http://www.eve-provenance.com |
bulabuba
Gallente Klima Galactic
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Posted - 2007.01.31 05:55:00 -
[93]
Originally by: arkarsk
Originally by: bulabuba words
Asking devs to stop playing the game they created in the way it was intended to be played is the worst idea i've ever heard. The furthest I would go is to not allow CCP employees into 0.0 alliances, but even that sounds ridiculous.
The devs are paid employees who make a living creating the game. That does not entitle them to play it. As I said, if they want to play, there is a test server where they can go "pew pew" each other after work to their heart's content. I'm a software developer myself, but I'm also an adult, and I fully well understand how even the appearance of a conflict of interest could negatively effect my employer.
Now that this cat is out of the bag, establishing a "no devs on TQ" policy is the only way to put it back in. Anything short of that, and you're always going to have the stink of favoritism and conflict of interest, even if there isn't any.
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Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No.
-DB Preacher[BoB] |
Sergio Ling
Standard Operations Building Services Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: bulabuba
Originally by: arkarsk
Originally by: bulabuba words
Asking devs to stop playing the game they created in the way it was intended to be played is the worst idea i've ever heard. The furthest I would go is to not allow CCP employees into 0.0 alliances, but even that sounds ridiculous.
The devs are paid employees who make a living creating the game. That does not entitle them to play it. As I said, if they want to play, there is a test server where they can go "pew pew" each other after work to their heart's content. I'm a software developer myself, but I'm also an adult, and I fully well understand how even the appearance of a conflict of interest could negatively effect my employer.
Now that this cat is out of the bag, establishing a "no devs on TQ" policy is the only way to put it back in. Anything short of that, and you're always going to have the stink of favoritism and conflict of interest, even if there isn't any.
Quite frankly horse****. Where do you think the enthusiasm comes to develop this game? because they love it. Stopping them playing it is ridiculous. _ Your sig is pwn - Eris
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bulabuba
Gallente Klima Galactic
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:17:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Sergio Ling
Originally by: bulabuba
Originally by: arkarsk
Originally by: bulabuba words
Asking devs to stop playing the game they created in the way it was intended to be played is the worst idea i've ever heard. The furthest I would go is to not allow CCP employees into 0.0 alliances, but even that sounds ridiculous.
The devs are paid employees who make a living creating the game. That does not entitle them to play it. As I said, if they want to play, there is a test server where they can go "pew pew" each other after work to their heart's content. I'm a software developer myself, but I'm also an adult, and I fully well understand how even the appearance of a conflict of interest could negatively effect my employer.
Now that this cat is out of the bag, establishing a "no devs on TQ" policy is the only way to put it back in. Anything short of that, and you're always going to have the stink of favoritism and conflict of interest, even if there isn't any.
Quite frankly horse****. Where do you think the enthusiasm comes to develop this game? because they love it. Stopping them playing it is ridiculous.
Well, my enthusiasm for going to work each morning comes from supporting my family and whatever else I choose to do with the dollars I earn. I also happen to love to write software and see it work. I think all engineers do. As i've said a couple of times now, there is a test server where they can go play among themselves or with whomever else is logged on there if they want to play.
The software development business is not the mouseketeer fun-house. Adult people make their living at it. When there's a conflict between business and "fun", business has to win. I'm sure the devs are mature enough to see that.
An alternative would be to clearly identify devs in game as devs, similarly to how GMs are distinguishable. That way, at least it's transparent, and everyone knows who they are.
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Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No.
-DB Preacher[BoB] |
Kassandra Wheldon
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:23:00 -
[96]
Here's a bloody sexy idea! let the developers take the jovian race, the Dev race so to speak and start getting them into the world of eve?
Imagine their own group that pretty much understands all - life, the universe and everything. to become co-operative with other alliances that are "good" and fight "evil" alliances or have the devs do their thing with customized ships that makes them still feel special. make the role-players happy and the PvP hardcore people happy aswell.
Then we can also have a storyline come out of it. and we get to shoot them. that way there is'nt any secret CCP/GM alt somewhere to worry about it's just them, playing with us, and we know they're right there!
oh yeah. and can we jus----jus....t Ge.. get along? in the words of michael jackson
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:33:00 -
[97]
I'm not really sure what to think about all of this. If the allegations are true, that's bad. I certainly hope that CCP would allow some transparency for the sake of the community to let us know what the final verdict is.
But what's worse is the lengths that people are going to these days to get ahead in this game.
I mean, the politics are what really drew me to the game after I had played around for a while. But things just seem to be going too far lately...maybe it's been going on all along and I just haven't noticed it. I mean, I don't expect things to be all light and fluffy, but isn't there a line somewhere that shouldn't be crossed? There doesn't seem to be any real agreement on that by the playerbase...and that's what I really don't like.
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Roller
Syn-Packet Security
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:37:00 -
[98]
Looks like it's only getting worse...
More Dev's have been outted on that 3rd party forum. The tinfoil hat joke is going to have new meaning after the leaks are over with I think.
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:41:00 -
[99]
I don't think anybody wants to see CCP employees fired (least those of us that are sane).
But CCP really needs to realize, that no matter how you try to spin it, employees in the game will have a huge conflict of interest the minute they get involved with anything major...whether it be 0.0 politics, or the market.
Yes the employees should be able to play, but only if you can properly monitor them, which you clearly can't. So you should probably just tell them not to play. They can test things out over in Jove space if they have to. Keep them out of the mainland.
Shamis
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Mitchman
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:59:00 -
[100]
If this guy keeps hacking into forums, why don't someone put the law enforcement agencies on him? Systematic hacking like this is illegal and will be investigated in all countries I know of.
New video: All Aboard The Pain Train
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:06:00 -
[101]
Originally by: bulabuba To CCP:
You should not have devs playing this game on the live server. Period, end of story. This is a competitive game, and even if these devs aren't doing anything wrong that would favor the alliances that they play for, it stinks of it, and that is nothing but bad for your reputation as a company, and the reputation of the game.
If devs want to play, they should play on the test server where what they can or can't do doesn't really matter. I would hope that you will take this opportunity to announce that you have established a policy of no devs playing on TQ. Lets keep the reputation of the game above reproach.
QFT. The main reason why devs of other games don't play on the LIVE server but on their own/test server is that if they play among the normal players they are bound to become biased towards the faction they are playing with. It's simple sociological fact, nothing more, nothing less and even if they wanted to they can't help it, it will happen subconsiously. This mixed with EVE's environment equals to a rather nice crapfest of course... --- Mandatory disclaimer: These are my thoughts, not my corps/alliances. ---
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Arched
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:11:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Mitchman If this guy keeps hacking into forums, why don't someone put the law enforcement agencies on him? Systematic hacking like this is illegal and will be investigated in all countries I know of.
That is the problem. What country is he from? Who is he. Just another name. I wonder if his CCP account details are even actually his.
Regardless to that I personally think that GM's and Dev's have every right and to play this game, and play it just like the rest of us.
I honestly dont doubt those were legitimate wins in the bpo lottery. If i was spawning myself bpo's it wouldn't be malediction and ****ty ammo bpo's (Sabre wasn't bad though)
What needs to be done is very simple I think. Ban this Hacker. (His eve-online account) Ban any character that in ANY WAY links someone to his site. not just forum bans, but account bans for weeks if not months. I know it's third party, but it is within your realm to remove all linked people to a site that is maliciously attacking the privacy and information of the people who consume to this game.
Ban him, Permanently. Ban anything that connects people in anyway to his site. Remove his ability to influence anything in this game. Make a stand. We are seeing a very hostile level of escalation and i can see no other option to resolving the issue.
CCP owns everything here. the forums, EVE, our characters. EXERT THAT POWER.
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Vily
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:12:00 -
[103]
above is me -
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Red Six
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:15:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Mitchman If this guy keeps hacking into forums, why don't someone put the law enforcement agencies on him? Systematic hacking like this is illegal and will be investigated in all countries I know of.
On top of what's been said already unless you can show financial impact most law enforcement agencies can care less about computer crime. In the few dealings I've have with the computer crimes FBI agents, they've stated it takes around $5K at the least to make it worth their time investigating. Sad, I know but that's life.
Originally by: Eridu Fallen
Upon closer inspection, that Caldari BS doesn't even look like it got hit with the ugly stick, it looks like it *is* the ugly stick.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:33:00 -
[105]
For those who are not in the know about why you shouldn't use phpBB:
It's full of security holes. As a moderator for one board based on it I've come across over 30 different ways in which all you need to do is a typo to wrong box (writing a line of SQL to avatar box to break the entire thing was my personal favorite) and you've "hacked" the entire board. As such most of these exploits are so damn dumb that you do them by accident thus it really isn't hacking if you encourter one of them. It of course is morally wrong to do that but since moral doesn't seem to apply to this game I guess that's irrelevant. Going from there, there is a feature in phpBB's administration page that dumps the entire database to local harddisk. I'm not sure since I have never had the need to check but I think it may actually save even the deleted messages, only thing the board software may do is to remove the message links from thread index.
As you may have guessed, allegedly BoB's (and many other alliances') entire forum was based on phpBB. --- Mandatory disclaimer: These are my thoughts, not my corps/alliances. ---
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Evil Thug
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:38:00 -
[106]
Masters of your own game, you say
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Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: kieron CCP is aware there are members of the community concerned over allegations of Dev misconduct coming from a third party message board and those community members are intent upon getting 'their story out to the people'. CCP has investigated, and will continue to investigate allegations of misconduct and take actions accordingly. This instance is no different from past investigations that have resulted in actions ranging from permanent game bans to termination of employment.
Continuing to post information from third party sites, spamming the forums, breaking the forum rules, etc. will not speed along the investigative process.
Post discussion in this thread and please follow the forum rules.
So are the goonswarm members getting banned for the spam? or is it policy for CCP to not ban people that accuse them? |
Kerosene
Caldari Fun Inc Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:59:00 -
[108]
Now you know why my sig says what it does. Not nice to be on the other end of it, is it? Maybe a CCP guy has been naughty, maybe not. I'll reserve judgement until the verdict comes out but the irony is just staggering. __
Originally by: Blacklight on BoB Just to be sure everyone is clear...
We use spies. We listen to your TS. We feed you false intel. We have no qualms about it whatsoever..
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DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:09:00 -
[109]
Originally by: The Mittani I don't where -dbp is going with the line that Rycar is secretly a deranged Frenchman in Jakarta with a penchant for unauthorized access. CCP can confirm that the AnthonyZ accounts and Rycar's are separate very quickly.
I didn't just pick rycar's name out of a hat of goonswarm characters there was a pretty specific reason for it. If you are serious about wanting to know the reason why then drop me a evemail ingame... no bs, no ulterior motives.
I don't care if the eve community believes me or not but I sincerely hope that no-one else gets hacked/attacked by kugutsmen.
Please read what I wrote on page 2 and think about it. Pretend it is a neutral telling you it and if you still think it is rubbish then just do it anyway before he is all over your forums, account and rl stuff.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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bulabuba
Gallente Klima Galactic
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:17:00 -
[110]
Edited by: bulabuba on 31/01/2007 08:16:03
Originally by: Arched
Originally by: Mitchman If this guy keeps hacking into forums, why don't someone put the law enforcement agencies on him? Systematic hacking like this is illegal and will be investigated in all countries I know of.
I honestly dont doubt those were legitimate wins in the bpo lottery. If i was spawning myself bpo's it wouldn't be malediction and ****ty ammo bpo's (Sabre wasn't bad though)
Um... yeah. Well first of all, if he did what I think he did, which was to install spyware on browsers that visited his site and that report back to him other sites that that same browser visited, it's not against the law. It happens all the time, as most folks well know. There is even a whole industry dedicated to making software that removes spyware.
Second of all, if this dev had T-2 BPOs that he was using to benefit the alliance to which he belonged, legitimately obtained or not, he shouldn't have. Everyone knows what those things mean in this game. A dev in posession of them and using them in game just stinks. You will never convince a goodly percentage of the player population that he didn't pull some strings to get them.
From CCP's end, it's just plain bad business to let this kind of thing go on. Even the possiblity of it creating a big crap storm like this is more than enough reason that that dev should have thrown the damn things back in the hopper and let them go to a paying customer, rather than to someone on the payroll. The fact that he didn't stinks like helping out his alliance was more important to him than fair play, even if that's not the case.
I really hope that CCP steps up and does the right thing here.
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No.
-DB Preacher[BoB] |
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Eponine Astarte
Industrial Holdings Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:19:00 -
[111]
I'm not bothered by there being devs in BoB. There should be devs involved in 0.0 politics, just as there should be devs who are high sec mission runners, low-sec pirates, and Jita industrialsits.
But here is what REALLY bothers me:
How did Dianbolic know that the person who petitioned Inos was an alt? The person who petitioned Inos did so anonymously because he feared that BoB would find out the identity of his main. The fact that a BoB director was able to identify who the alt was is pretty disturbing.
That, more than the mere existence of a BoB GM, shows how they are abusing their positions within CCP and using their jobs to gain an in-game advantage. Dianbolic should never have had any clue whatsoever as to who the petitioner was, yet lo and behold he did.
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Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:26:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Sinlare on 31/01/2007 08:22:39
Originally by: Eponine Astarte I'm not bothered by there being devs in BoB. There should be devs involved in 0.0 politics, just as there should be devs who are high sec mission runners, low-sec pirates, and Jita industrialsits.
But here is what REALLY bothers me:
How did Dianbolic know that the person who petitioned Inos was an alt? The person who petitioned Inos did so anonymously because he feared that BoB would find out the identity of his main. The fact that a BoB director was able to identify who the alt was is pretty disturbing.
That, more than the mere existence of a BoB GM, shows how they are abusing their positions within CCP and using their jobs to gain an in-game advantage. Dianbolic should never have had any clue whatsoever as to who the petitioner was, yet lo and behold he did.
I think that's something you say when you don't know who it is. Forum post exposing something? probably an alt. Spy on TS? probably an alt.. someone petitioned? probably an alt.. Don't tinfoil up so much, i really can't believe people are so easily misleaded. |
Anonymous Coward
Gallente Panopticon Citadel
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:30:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Sinlare I think that's something you say when you don't know who it is. Forum post exposing something? probably an alt. Spy on TS? probably an alt.. someone petitioned? probably an alt.. Don't tinfoil up so much, i really can't believe people are so easily misleaded.
If by "tinfoil" you mean "totally reasonable and justified suspicion at this point".
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Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:37:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Anonymous Coward
Originally by: Sinlare I think that's something you say when you don't know who it is. Forum post exposing something? probably an alt. Spy on TS? probably an alt.. someone petitioned? probably an alt.. Don't tinfoil up so much, i really can't believe people are so easily misleaded.
If by "tinfoil" you mean "totally reasonable and justified suspicion at this point".
No i don't, people should rely more on facts then fiction. Especially when it's no game for the people they accuse, but people on these boards tend to forget that. |
Mar vel
Caldari H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:37:00 -
[115]
Links.
Kind of hard to listen to people whisper i told you so.
I F***ING TOLD YOU SO.
Any connection with a certain guest on the 4th annual PvP Tournament, or was that sheer coincidence also? Mmmk. It does look pretty....complex given the situation at hand.
I really can't resist: lol@u ccp.
Once again into the breech.
Try telling *the community* (all 100,000 of us) that you didn't know that your man was playing in BoB, and I'll have to throw Veldspar at you from short distances. CCP (as a company) is pretty small, the Dev community even more so.
Conceivably it would be no problem for a Dev to manipulate the environment to their own advantages without a lot of red flags being thrown. The fact that the person accused supposedly did this without any knowledge or repurcussions by Devs, is, well, not so good. I don't think you can realistically lock down your Application from people with code-level access, but....well, one would think that there are SOME chacks and balances in place. After all, this ins't Garage Band Beta 2 anymore, now is it?
I think everyone here encourages CCP Devs to play in-game; it's necessary and helpful -but that comes with a pretty big responsibility. We know you guys love this game - so do we; the danger is that you get involved in role-playing your character, and then it's no big deal to let slip information, or in the worst cases, goods and materials or tactical/strategic information.
This really, really does a lot to undermine people's confidence in the game - there's nothing that irritates people more than KNOWING that they're just feeding the grist mill, and that they will NEVER get ahead - much less experience some of the content that is reserved only for Alliance-level play (Titans, Motherships, etc.). T2 BPO's are probably THE ONLY chance that the masses can count on to "hit it big" - many of the BPO's are like printing free isk in bulk. Even if one person committed the fault - think of how many "XX" T2 items have been built and sold, how many have been built and used - giving the bearers and the users vast tactical advantages. Now apply this tactical advantage at the alliance level. Madness. It completely unbalances every win -every instance where there was a decisive victory can be attributed to the cumulative effects of the original infraction(s).
There are already SO many issues plaguing this game in terms of scalability, features, content, balancing, bugs, etc. - why would you (CCP) want to risk creating the straw that broke the Camel's back?
Take a page from some of the other CCP Devs who posted in the past(on behalf of the company)to just plain admit a mistake had been made - and that a positive resolution was forthcoming. Do not keep us in *partial truths*.
We can respect that.
I, for one, will be watching this with a lot of interest - and continued suspicion, regardless of the outcome. CCP, you've earned that disresepct because you openly lied about not having Devs in BoB.
Now we'll wait and see how you handle the issue, which has all the makings of a major political drama - both in-game and out of game.
Mar vel
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Bon Ali
Bon's Ecological Recycling
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:39:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: Anonymous Coward
Originally by: Sinlare I think that's something you say when you don't know who it is. Forum post exposing something? probably an alt. Spy on TS? probably an alt.. someone petitioned? probably an alt.. Don't tinfoil up so much, i really can't believe people are so easily misleaded.
If by "tinfoil" you mean "totally reasonable and justified suspicion at this point".
No i don't, people should rely more on facts then fiction. Especially when it's no game for the people they accuse, but people on these boards tend to forget that.
Try heading over to the board where this information originated and tell me there isnt good IP evidence.
Also: Users posting from this IP address Lord Stone [ 84 Posts ] Al Haquis [ 68 Posts ] Ishos Rerajan [ 31 Posts ] Morbius Drake [ 1 Post ] Khaldorn Murino [ 1 Post ]
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La Tortura
Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:42:00 -
[117]
I would say EVE managers should take these issues _very_ serious. Othervise soon all positive replies about EVE on all gaming forums of the world will end up with "unfortunatelly there are a lot of proven cases of corruption and favouritism amongst CCP staff lately". That would be quite bad PR. -- ignorance is bliss |
Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:47:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Bon Ali
Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: Anonymous Coward
Originally by: Sinlare I think that's something you say when you don't know who it is. Forum post exposing something? probably an alt. Spy on TS? probably an alt.. someone petitioned? probably an alt.. Don't tinfoil up so much, i really can't believe people are so easily misleaded.
If by "tinfoil" you mean "totally reasonable and justified suspicion at this point".
No i don't, people should rely more on facts then fiction. Especially when it's no game for the people they accuse, but people on these boards tend to forget that.
Try heading over to the board where this information originated and tell me there isnt good IP evidence.
Also: Users posting from this IP address Lord Stone [ 84 Posts ] Al Haquis [ 68 Posts ] Ishos Rerajan [ 31 Posts ] Morbius Drake [ 1 Post ] Khaldorn Murino [ 1 Post ]
What's wrong with ccp playing eve? You will probably find much more of that in any given alliance. 'Mar vel' above shows how twisted some people have become, not to mention paranoid. It's a sad display of human psychology, it cannot comprehend anything but the best for itself. |
maarud
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:48:00 -
[119]
I'd like to know why this hacker isn't in jail yet, sounds like he's been breaking a few laws?
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Eponine Astarte
Industrial Holdings Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:51:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Sinlare
I think that's something you say when you don't know who it is. Forum post exposing something? probably an alt. Spy on TS? probably an alt.. someone petitioned? probably an alt.. Don't tinfoil up so much, i really can't believe people are so easily misleaded.
haha, go read Dianbolic's private message on the issue. It's very clear to anyone with an understanding of the English language (just saying because there are many ESL's playing Eve) that he knew the petitioner was in fact an alt. Not "alt" used as a stand-in for anonymous person, but alt as in a character created for a specific purpose to avoid main character attribution.
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