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Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:27:00 - [571] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:24:18 Helganstandt, how do you know CCP don't run spot checks, etc? Proof plz. And yes, you want to kill off Eve in the longer run by stopping the devs from playing and disconnecting them from the game, as well as costing CCP staff. We know. //Maya
Nekumi Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:27:00 - [572] Originally by: Dekiri Edited by: Dekiri on 31/01/2007 21:18:45 Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dekiri Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dekiri As long as it is not proven that there was cheating involved and not just some dude trying to do something for someone he got to know in game and who maybe needed a job, it is really unfair to start a witch hunt. Be fair sit back and wait what happens. You have no other choice anyways. And trust me in this one i know for a fact that the upper people at CCP will not tolerate someone destroying their baby. I know how it is to own a company i do have one myself and it is my sweet baby and i would never allow any of my employees ruining my work. Chill people oh my god. Its our money we pay for this game with, we can start a witch-hunt whenever we like. And its not us that dont have a choice. CCP is staring at a major problem here. With the news getting out to the rest of the internet, ** just hit the fan I bet at CCP. And its not about proof. This is the internet. I.e. the 'media'. Media don't give a ** about proof. Perception is everything, and at this point in time, perception is looking terrible for CCP. I already hear from people quitting over this. You can do what you like but you look like a lunatic and a complete idiot doing so. I can understand being concerned, but the way you and a lot of other peopel are acting is completly ridiculous and out of touch with reality. I have complained on this forum before about stuff slightly related to this. I didn't have conclusive proof then. But I happen to know that someone who was mentioned to me today as a Dev in BoB has left BoB or been kicked out (don't know which) today. Some people hear more than others, and not just people in BoB. The official stance of CCP about this is 100% clear. Devs are allowed to play the game as they wish and if they cheat or someoen figures out they are devs they loose their chars and all they worked for. This is what is going to happen now as well. If you don't like it you don't agree with CCP's general stance on this and this is a completly different matter. Oh btw .. i "hear" a lot as well, probably more then many others, ask my CEO =p But that does not mean that it is all true. Please link me to this official stance please because all we've got to go on at the moment is Kieron's post which merely states CCP Employees do play the game. I can't find any rules whatsoever that dictate what a CCP Employee can or cannot do.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:28:00 - [573] If you ask me, the Dev's don't play the game ENOUGH. Dev cheating is obviously a bad thing in a game, and anyone who has been around mmpogs for several years knows it happens in games. Despite the risk that some people can't be trusted with thier own game, having devs play is what makes the game better. You can tell when the devs don't play the game enough, and thats when you get things like TOA for DAOC. If the devs had to rely on what they read on the forums for what they should do in game EvE would have died a early death.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:28:00 - [574] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:23:01 Malachon Draco, okay. Five times recurring bounty for 5 mil on your corpse. Killmails and FRAPS required. Witch hunts4tw and such. Qu'ut Nez, so again you're taking the words of a self-admited hacker as evidence without any material proof whatsoever? You might want to reconsider that. The fact of the matter is that calling people liers in that matter is simply bias. (and please, accuse me of pro-BoB bias. I need a laugh!) j0sephine, it's my understanding that DAOC devs can. Cool. A witch hunt against me. As for the hacker, the reaction from BoB is enough proof its true.
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:29:00 - [575] Originally by: Dekiri The reason why some older chars have more T2 BPO's and more chance to get T2 BPO's is, that many people run multiple research chars and with those you can get pretty good results in the lottery...As long as it is not proven that there was cheating involved...it is really unfair to start a witch hunt. There is certainly no evidence yet that the dev actually manipulated lottery mechanics, but he does seem to have pretty many T2 BPOs for a single character (no research alts revealed yet). But what bothers me is that no one supposedly knows exactly how the T2 lottery works--eg, are some corps and agents more likely to get BPO offers?--so a dev with this knowledge would be able to do better than us poor *******s, and pass this information on to his alliance buddies. The lottery is screwed up enough as it is, without players with superior knowledge of its mechanics from a dev gaining an edge. And this kind of thing would be difficult to turn up in any investigation conducted by CCP. Same issue applies now to Invention--how the hell it works, where best to find the BPCs and build components, etc.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:29:00 - [576] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:26:22 Malachon Draco, ANY reaction by BoB would convince you "it was true". They had devs. That is true. The bias is simply unproven, and you are trying to weave hearsay from someone who is a self-admitted hacker...well, I wonder precisely what relationship you have with him yourself, since you're taking his word for granted. (Hm...I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time I've put a bounty on your head...) //Maya
Gogela Caldari The Edge Foundation Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:30:00 - [577] Edited by: Gogela on 31/01/2007 21:33:16 Wow. IÆm not a big forum poster, and IÆm not anybody special in the game. Just a random newish capsule floating around the galaxy having a good time and trying not to get podded by the big boys. That said, I think I represent a significant demographic. I started playing this game because it looked like fun and Halo II was at the time full of modders. Fundamentally, modding and devs leveraging up their alliance in EvE seem to have a similar effect on the game from this players perspective. I like EvEà its fun to play when I have an hour or two to kill. àbut remember CCPà a game is only fun to play until itÆs notà or something better comes along. If cheating is par for the course, and if it makes the game not fun anymore, youÆre real life CEO can forget about ôthe next 10 years of EvEö and would do well to start thinking about what your next MMORPG game is going to beà That's all I have to say. Think IÆll go do some ratting now. Hugs and kisses, ~Gogela ------------------------------------ "A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie."
Dekiri Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:30:00 - [578] Originally by: Nekumi Originally by: Dekiri Edited by: Dekiri on 31/01/2007 21:18:45 Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dekiri Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dekiri As long as it is not proven that there was cheating involved and not just some dude trying to do something for someone he got to know in game and who maybe needed a job, it is really unfair to start a witch hunt. Be fair sit back and wait what happens. You have no other choice anyways. And trust me in this one i know for a fact that the upper people at CCP will not tolerate someone destroying their baby. I know how it is to own a company i do have one myself and it is my sweet baby and i would never allow any of my employees ruining my work. Chill people oh my god. Its our money we pay for this game with, we can start a witch-hunt whenever we like. And its not us that dont have a choice. CCP is staring at a major problem here. With the news getting out to the rest of the internet, ** just hit the fan I bet at CCP. And its not about proof. This is the internet. I.e. the 'media'. Media don't give a about proof. Perception is everything, and at this point in time, perception is looking terrible for CCP. I already hear from people quitting over this. You can do what you like but you look like a lunatic and a complete idiot doing so. I can understand being concerned, but the way you and a lot of other peopel are acting is completly ridiculous and out of touch with reality. I have complained on this forum before about stuff slightly related to this. I didn't have conclusive proof then. But I happen to know that someone who was mentioned to me today as a Dev in BoB has left BoB or been kicked out (don't know which) today. Some people hear more than others, and not just people in BoB. The official stance of CCP about this is 100% clear. Devs are allowed to play the game as they wish and if they cheat or someoen figures out they are devs they loose their chars and all they worked for. This is what is going to happen now as well. If you don't like it you don't agree with CCP's general stance on this and this is a completly different matter. Oh btw .. i "hear" a lot as well, probably more then many others, ask my CEO =p But that does not mean that it is all true. Please link me to this official stance please because all we've got to go on at the moment is Kieron's post which merely states CCP Employees do play the game. I can't find any rules whatsoever that dictate what a CCP Employee can or cannot do. The explanations appeared in several topics about this matter and if i remember right it was even mentioned in one of the discussions with the devs on EVE-TV. You will have to use the forum search function or eve-search.com. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur**
Puke Skystalker Minmatar The Mystical Order	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:30:00 - [579] Originally by: Philip Sterling Edited by: Philip Sterling on 31/01/2007 20:30:38 Anyone who's a big enough loser to resort to hacking and such to 'win' a video game just needs to get a life. It's hardly suprising, just the next step on the slippery slope once the line is crossed. Some people have a craving to "win" at any cost and the stakes have become way too high especially with the real cash interests floating about. Back room deals, meta gaming, social engineering, corp / TS infiltration and the other lamer tactics. The gauntlet was thrown down long ago and logically for some the next step was hacking. What appears to have come to light as a consequence of these tactics is even more disturbing than what started this whole **** storm rolling.
Helganstandt Finis Lumen	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:32:00 - [580] Edited by: Helganstandt on 31/01/2007 21:31:47 Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:24:18 Helganstandt, how do you know CCP don't run spot checks, etc? Proof plz. And yes, you want to kill off Eve in the longer run by stopping the devs from playing and disconnecting them from the game, as well as costing CCP staff. We know. It doesn't make sense, because they don't have enough employees. They can't even get the petition queue down to within a matter of weeks, how are they going to hire enough people to monitor dev's and GM's to make sure they're not exploiting their privileges and info for their characters? I assume that the fact that they have to "investigate" in the first place is pretty good proof that they're not doing it on a regular basis. Edit: So that being said, if they DO have a department that is always looking for misconduct of CCP Staff, they're doing a **** poor job. Either way, they need to fix it to the point where it's not an issue. Otherwise they have to not let the GM's and Devs play.

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:32:00 - [581] Can we rename fountain to salem please Half Assed Rhymage
Dekiri Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:34:00 - [582] Edited by: Dekiri on 31/01/2007 21:31:59 Originally by: Tanis Bastar Originally by: Dekiri The reason why some older chars have more T2 BPO's and more chance to get T2 BPO's is, that many people run multiple research chars and with those you can get pretty good results in the lottery...As long as it is not proven that there was cheating involved...it is really unfair to start a witch hunt. There is certainly no evidence yet that the dev actually manipulated lottery mechanics, but he does seem to have pretty many T2 BPOs for a single character (no research alts revealed yet). But what bothers me is that no one supposedly knows exactly how the T2 lottery works--eg, are some corps and agents more likely to get BPO offers?--so a dev with this knowledge would be able to do better than us poor *****s, and pass this information on to his alliance buddies. The lottery is screwed up enough as it is, without players with superior knowledge of its mechanics from a dev gaining an edge. And this kind of thing would be difficult to turn up in any investigation conducted by CCP. Same issue applies now to Invention--how the hell it works, where best to find the BPCs and build components, etc. Afaik it was once stated on these very forums that it is a simple lottery where you can get tickets for and if one of the items showing as predicted bpo's in your research field in your agent you will participate with all the tickets you have at that agent. I highly doubt that it is any more complicated, because it would also not make sense to make it any different. The reason why things don't get "revealed" with exact statistics is to keep the rumor mill up and also the doubts and the "magic" of the game. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur**
gaaksel The Legion.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:36:00 - [583] You people really have to cool down. There is literally no MMORPG where the devs / gms do not play the game themselves. Want some examples ? In WoW the euro GMs received a prepaid euro account (paid for i think 26 years in advance) upon being hired. These accounts they are allowed to keep after they pass the trial period. Devs / GMs / QA / CS department members all play the game on a multitude of servers in all factions together and against each other. Blizzard still runs a program allowing certain members of the community early access to closed betas on upcoming games and extensions. In AO GMs were partly recruited out of the player base and were supposed to keep playing, after being recruited. Certain members of the community were granted access to the so called Area51 which was roughly a communication board between the devs and selected players out of the community (you guessed right, mostly people that played pretty hardcore and knew alot of the games existing problems especially in the high end content) There are programs similar to those in literally all mmorpgs currently on the market. Why is all this done ? The reason is simple, for a successful GM it is vital that he fully understands game mechanics on all problems that may or may not arise during the time he is on duty, as such it is vastly important he has a good knowledge of the game and you don't get that knowledge by playing a game during your office hours on the side. No matter how hard you try as a developer if you don't see the outcome of your changes and balancing approaches first hand all your excel tables and number crunching will not give you the right impression and then , there is the one factor that you cannot calculate which is : Does it feel right ? The only way for a MMORPG company to keep in touch with their community is to rely on their employees to collect, report and discuss first hand experience. But even then , even if you play the game after you worked on it for 10hours , there are parts that you cannot cover, that is when certain parts of the community are asked for their opinion, community members that stand out with their knowledge, their understanding of the game and their level of commitment into the game. You can however rest assured that all these activities are closely monitored, for simple business reasons. Now to the case at hand, yes even a Dev / GM / person is a human, now if there was really someone stepping out of the line and was passing intel , handing out in game items obtained by abusing his privileges or anything else not in the pretty strict NDA documents he undoubtedly signed once he was hired , he will be unemployed pretty soon. And on that note it is also highly unlikely that he will ever find another job in the MMORPG field. So as you can see this is a pretty high border for someone to cross and a pretty high risk attached to it affecting not only your current position but also your future positions in the industry. As such you can possibly imagine that the fraction of people willing to risk such a thing is really small. To conclude, yes every basket can contain a foul apple, however unless you believe the whole of CCP is corrupt and wants to ruin their own game you can rest assured that such a behavior will not be tolerated and dealt with with all consequences. Always remember CCP is after two things, more people to buy and use their product and watching their collective dream to create the best possible and most successful MMORPG come true. Just as anyone else running a business wants his company to succeed and his visions to become reality. Now sit back, follow the boards and wait for a CCP rep to post the results of their investigation.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:37:00 - [584] Originally by: Maya Rkell (Hm...I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time I've put a bounty on your head...) If so, I think it wasn't very effective so far And like I think I told you before, some people have more access to information than others. And what I hear from Kugutsumen is little more than confirmation on stuff I heard several times before from other, rather reliable sources. Though without proof, but Kugutsumen takes care of that reasonably well.
Lenutza GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:40:00 - [585] Speaking for myself, I am absolutely sick of playing on an uneven playing field. CCP has repeatedly proven themselves untrustworthy in this regard. Someone in ISD leaked event info to a corp in Lotka Volterra, allowing them to pre-position assets for a contest turnin that resulted in a Hel mothership. Despite the ISD leak being revealed and the absolutely absurd chance of a corp having several freighter loads worth of random stuff sitting in an NPC station, that Hel is still flying. Someone was using anonymous alts to buy up expanded cargohold bpos and other bpos that would only days/weeks later be converted into T2 variants. It is likely, though not guaranteed, that they were acting on insider knowledge. Someone dumped Cap Recharger II bpos and other bpos that were highly devalued by invention or the t2 lottery in the days or weeks before the release of Kali and the lottery. And now there are BoB players who are devs. Anyone sane expects Devs to play the game, and this is not a problem until it is known that they are devs. It's pretty clear this was the case, with the large numbers of deleted posts and PMs involving @ccp email addresses. This is a huge problem. You cannot run a MMOG this way -- especially in Eve, where the players drive the economy, a level playing field is everything.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:42:00 - [586] Originally by: Dekiri Edited by: Dekiri on 31/01/2007 21:31:59 Originally by: Tanis Bastar Originally by: Dekiri The reason why some older chars have more T2 BPO's and more chance to get T2 BPO's is, that many people run multiple research chars and with those you can get pretty good results in the lottery...As long as it is not proven that there was cheating involved...it is really unfair to start a witch hunt. There is certainly no evidence yet that the dev actually manipulated lottery mechanics, but he does seem to have pretty many T2 BPOs for a single character (no research alts revealed yet). But what bothers me is that no one supposedly knows exactly how the T2 lottery works--eg, are some corps and agents more likely to get BPO offers?--so a dev with this knowledge would be able to do better than us poor *******s, and pass this information on to his alliance buddies. The lottery is screwed up enough as it is, without players with superior knowledge of its mechanics from a dev gaining an edge. And this kind of thing would be difficult to turn up in any investigation conducted by CCP. Same issue applies now to Invention--how the hell it works, where best to find the BPCs and build components, etc. Afaik it was once stated on these very forums that it is a simple lottery where you can get tickets for and if one of the items showing as predicted bpo's in your research field in your agent you will participate with all the tickets you have at that agent. I highly doubt that it is any more complicated, because it would also not make sense to make it any different. The reason why things don't get "revealed" with exact statistics is to keep the rumor mill up and also the doubts and the "magic" of the game. Well, what some people think is that BPOs are first divided between agents, and then a lottery between the people having RP with that agent takes place. If that is the case, a developer giving a definite answer on that would be very helpful if you're the only one who knows thats the mechanic.
Nekumi Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:42:00 - [587] Originally by: Dekiri Originally by: Nekumi Originally by: Dekiri The official stance of CCP about this is 100% clear. Devs are allowed to play the game as they wish and if they cheat or someoen figures out they are devs they loose their chars and all they worked for. This is what is going to happen now as well. If you don't like it you don't agree with CCP's general stance on this and this is a completly different matter. Oh btw .. i "hear" a lot as well, probably more then many others, ask my CEO =p But that does not mean that it is all true. Please link me to this official stance please because all we've got to go on at the moment is Kieron's post which merely states CCP Employees do play the game. I can't find any rules whatsoever that dictate what a CCP Employee can or cannot do. The explanations appeared in several topics about this matter and if i remember right it was even mentioned in one of the discussions with the devs on EVE-TV. You will have to use the forum search function or eve-search.com. I have found no such thing using Eve-Search or by looking through the dev blogs. I am willing to accept the fact that I'm not good enough to find this information so if anyone else on here can be so kind as to help me out I would be very appreciative. Until then Dekiri, I'm going to have to see your post as pure hearsay. The fact that such information is so difficult to find is telling.
Helganstandt Finis Lumen	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:42:00 - [588] Originally by: gaaksel some good stuff I do agree with what you said, and it is pretty essential that the staff be able to play the game. But CCP needs to realize that they have to hire a dedicated group of people to monitor the in-game activities of the devs and GM's to make sure they aren't using their info or their powers to their advantage. This investigation is a step in the right direction, but it should be happening all the time. That's what the other MMO's do.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:45:00 - [589] Helganstandt, so you're working off hearsay. Although the work would be less for a smaller team. You really need to rethink that one. And y'know, it might just be that this crap is unfounded and they HAVE been doing their jobs. But you've allready evidently made your mind up. I have not. And yes, you hate Eve. Alright already. Malachon Draco... so...you're admitting a connection to a hacker. There is no excuse whatsoever for dealing with him, afaik. I've done responding to you. You and your hacker buddies have fun now. //Maya
Dekiri Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:45:00 - [590] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dekiri Edited by: Dekiri on 31/01/2007 21:31:59 Originally by: Tanis Bastar Originally by: Dekiri The reason why some older chars have more T2 BPO's and more chance to get T2 BPO's is, that many people run multiple research chars and with those you can get pretty good results in the lottery...As long as it is not proven that there was cheating involved...it is really unfair to start a witch hunt. There is certainly no evidence yet that the dev actually manipulated lottery mechanics, but he does seem to have pretty many T2 BPOs for a single character (no research alts revealed yet). But what bothers me is that no one supposedly knows exactly how the T2 lottery works--eg, are some corps and agents more likely to get BPO offers?--so a dev with this knowledge would be able to do better than us poor *****s, and pass this information on to his alliance buddies. The lottery is screwed up enough as it is, without players with superior knowledge of its mechanics from a dev gaining an edge. And this kind of thing would be difficult to turn up in any investigation conducted by CCP. Same issue applies now to Invention--how the hell it works, where best to find the BPCs and build components, etc. Afaik it was once stated on these very forums that it is a simple lottery where you can get tickets for and if one of the items showing as predicted bpo's in your research field in your agent you will participate with all the tickets you have at that agent. I highly doubt that it is any more complicated, because it would also not make sense to make it any different. The reason why things don't get "revealed" with exact statistics is to keep the rumor mill up and also the doubts and the "magic" of the game. Well, what some people think is that BPOs are first divided between agents, and then a lottery between the people having RP with that agent takes place. If that is the case, a developer giving a definite answer on that would be very helpful if you're the only one who knows thats the mechanic. It is code my friend and code is kept as simple as possible. Not to mention that the mathematical chances don't change if you divide them randomly by agents first. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur**

j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:46:00 - [591] "As for the hacker, the reaction from BoB is enough proof its true." hacker: "BoB are cheaters and dev alts" BoB: "zOMG, lies" random audience: "they are denying it, it's enough proof it is true!" isn't it what it boils down to? ^^
Lunas Feelgood Maza Nostra	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:46:00 - [592] All you peeps really need to take a deep breath, unplug and watch handball WM instead or something.. As I allrdy have stated CCP is aware there are members of the community concerned over allegations of Dev misconduct coming from a third party message board and those community members are intent upon getting 'their story out to the people'. CCP has investigated, and will continue to investigate allegations of misconduct and take actions accordingly. This instance is no different from past investigations that have resulted in actions ranging from permanent game bans to termination of employment. **** posted with my alt
Vishnej Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:46:00 - [593] Edited by: Vishnej on 31/01/2007 21:43:22 Originally by: Chi Prime Jeez, what a lynch mob. It is when this type of dynamic happens in RL that ppl get hanged without due process... Please calm down and let CCP investigate it. A better parallel: This is why police departments feel it necessary to spend gobs of money on internal affairs divisions to spy on themselves.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:47:00 - [594] Originally by: Maya Rkell Helganstandt, so you're working off hearsay. Although the work would be less for a smaller team. You really need to rethink that one. And y'know, it might just be that this crap is unfounded and they HAVE been doing their jobs. But you've allready evidently made your mind up. I have not. And yes, you hate Eve. Alright already. Malachon Draco... so...you're admitting a connection to a hacker. There is no excuse whatsoever for dealing with him, afaik. I've done responding to you. You and your hacker buddies have fun now. No, I did not admit to having connections to a hacker. I have no clue about Kugutsumen. There are other sources than hackers you know...as BoB can undoubtedly tell you
Dekiri Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:47:00 - [595] Originally by: Nekumi Originally by: Dekiri Originally by: Nekumi Originally by: Dekiri The official stance of CCP about this is 100% clear. Devs are allowed to play the game as they wish and if they cheat or someoen figures out they are devs they loose their chars and all they worked for. This is what is going to happen now as well. If you don't like it you don't agree with CCP's general stance on this and this is a completly different matter. Oh btw .. i "hear" a lot as well, probably more then many others, ask my CEO =p But that does not mean that it is all true. Please link me to this official stance please because all we've got to go on at the moment is Kieron's post which merely states CCP Employees do play the game. I can't find any rules whatsoever that dictate what a CCP Employee can or cannot do. The explanations appeared in several topics about this matter and if i remember right it was even mentioned in one of the discussions with the devs on EVE-TV. You will have to use the forum search function or eve-search.com. I have found no such thing using Eve-Search or by looking through the dev blogs. I am willing to accept the fact that I'm not good enough to find this information so if anyone else on here can be so kind as to help me out I would be very appreciative. Until then Dekiri, I'm going to have to see your post as pure hearsay. The fact that such information is so difficult to find is telling. Might want to try harder =) Maybe if i am back from where i am at the moment i might send you an eve-mail if it really interests you. The post is somewhere here on the forums though =) --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
Qu'ut Nez Minmatar Norges Sildesalgslag	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:47:00 - [596] Originally by: j0sephine [i]"What is good enough proof for you? A confession?" A hard evidence recorded in the server logs. In this particular case --given the accusations-- it would be either logs of the dev character spawning extra BPO's and passing them to their character (easy to track since tech.2 BPOs are supposed to be out there in limited amounts) ... or traces of tampering with the code that resulted in obtaining the BPOs (also easy to verify) Spawning T2 BPOs is a blind accusation invented in this thread. If we want to play the "ill-gotten gains" game, you could just as well get isk from conveniently announced Serpentis events, then buy the BPOs on the open market. But that's pure speculation. And the hard evidence might never have existed in the server logs if the real infractions were made in the BoB forum. I repeat myself, but I'm not faulting BoB for using shared accounts and ebaying, every major alliance does this, but I'm definately faulting a dev for being actively involved with it. ------ [SILD]
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:48:00 - [597] Originally by: j0sephine "As for the hacker, the reaction from BoB is enough proof its true." hacker: "BoB are cheaters and dev alts" BoB: "zOMG, lies" random audience: "they are denying it, it's enough proof it is true!" isn't it what it boils down to? ^^ No its more like this: hacker: "BoB are cheaters and dev alts" BoB:"ZOMG, you hacked my forum" random audience:"Hmmmm...."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:49:00 - [598] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:46:44 Originally by: Lenutza Someone was using anonymous alts to buy up expanded cargohold bpos and other bpos that would only days/weeks later be converted into T2 variants. It is likely, though not guaranteed, that they were acting on insider knowledge. I know who did this. You're flailing in the wind, they're not devs (American TZ). You simply lost out because of someone took a commercial gamble. It was relatively minor for him as well. Originally by: Lenutza Someone dumped Cap Recharger II bpos and other bpos that were highly devalued by invention or the t2 lottery in the days or weeks before the release of Kali and the lottery. Invention was announced WELL before. Of course people dumped assets which were about to be devalued. This dosn't take insider info, it takes common sense. In the Eve economy, you snooze, you lose. This isn't the same as insider info. It just means you're not very good at manipulating it. Malachon Draco, "And what I hear from Kugutsumen" Right. Spin again. //Maya
Helganstandt Finis Lumen	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:51:00 - [599] Originally by: Maya Rkell Helganstandt, so you're working off hearsay. Although the work would be less for a smaller team. You really need to rethink that one. And y'know, it might just be that this crap is unfounded and they HAVE been doing their jobs. But you've allready evidently made your mind up. I have not. And yes, you hate Eve. Alright already. Wait, what? Where did I say I hate eve? Seriously, you have to get over yourself, you're not a beacon of truth either. People asked how other MMO's are different, I answered. Your skepticism is fine, but you offer no other counter points other than "this may just be unfounded crap". Yeah, it may be. And it may all be true and we could be looking at a huge corruption scandel. So all in all, you've said nothing. All I can see is "it may be true, it may not be, I don't think it's true". Yay, good for you, thanks for the opinion. Now why don't you give me some reasons as to why I need to "rethink" my idea of hiring a small team to monitor Dev and GM activity. Can you think of some good reasons not to?
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:51:00 - [600] Originally by: Dekiri Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dekiri Edited by: Dekiri on 31/01/2007 21:31:59 Originally by: Tanis Bastar Originally by: Dekiri The reason why some older chars have more T2 BPO's and more chance to get T2 BPO's is, that many people run multiple research chars and with those you can get pretty good results in the lottery...As long as it is not proven that there was cheating involved...it is really unfair to start a witch hunt. There is certainly no evidence yet that the dev actually manipulated lottery mechanics, but he does seem to have pretty many T2 BPOs for a single character (no research alts revealed yet). But what bothers me is that no one supposedly knows exactly how the T2 lottery works--eg, are some corps and agents more likely to get BPO offers?--so a dev with this knowledge would be able to do better than us poor *******s, and pass this information on to his alliance buddies. The lottery is screwed up enough as it is, without players with superior knowledge of its mechanics from a dev gaining an edge. And this kind of thing would be difficult to turn up in any investigation conducted by CCP. Same issue applies now to Invention--how the hell it works, where best to find the BPCs and build components, etc. Afaik it was once stated on these very forums that it is a simple lottery where you can get tickets for and if one of the items showing as predicted bpo's in your research field in your agent you will participate with all the tickets you have at that agent. I highly doubt that it is any more complicated, because it would also not make sense to make it any different. The reason why things don't get "revealed" with exact statistics is to keep the rumor mill up and also the doubts and the "magic" of the game. Well, what some people think is that BPOs are first divided between agents, and then a lottery between the people having RP with that agent takes place. If that is the case, a developer giving a definite answer on that would be very helpful if you're the only one who knows thats the mechanic. It is code my friend and code is kept as simple as possible. Not to mention that the mathematical chances don't change if you divide them randomly by agents first. I can do the math for you, but if you do the math yourself you will see that there is a difference if one party knows beforehand how it works, and the rest assumes a different method. Asymmetry of information actually changes the situation here. You would be right that if noone knows about it, then it doesnt matter.



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