There was no difficulty in giving 4.5m sp to battlecruiser pilots.

Yes because adding 4.5 million sp and adding 12 million sp is an equivalent event.

Oh and did they have injectors in game when the 4.5 million sp was added? Man, everyone but you totally missed them.

This is the best case scenario for CCP to keep the SP of the most advanced players from inflating more while keeping total value of the game null.

Admit to the truth, you want free SP for no other reason than CCP has given SP in one circumstance similar in the past. The rest of us are happy that triage pilots are not screwed up the ass with training times.

Stop thinking that you deserve free SP. You don't. You don't deserve a damn thing in this game. Everyone gets the same treatment.

Imagine the tears! (setting it closer to carrier than to dread would make it a nice ISK sink though)

EDIT: After checking my wallet, let's hope it's closer to the dread skillbook price.

Hi Mates,

Any character with Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration, a Carrier and Force Auxiliary skill (of the same race) injected when the citadels expansion launches, will have the racial carrier skillpoints refunded as unallocated skillpoints.

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin

I feel like you haven't yet made the distinction between being able to fly* something and being able to fly something. Sure, anyone with Gallente Battleship I can fly a Megathron, but without a core of engineering, armor, and gunnery skills they can't really fly it.

Same thing for carriers. I have spent two years training a toon from scratch who can do almost everything perfectly in a carrier. Now in order to fulfill the same roles I am almost perfect at I need to drop 2b isk on skillbooks and add another 8+ months of training time to my skill queue, oh, and I can't do it whenever I want because of the shitass attribute system? That's a raw deal and anyone can see it, except you I guess.

may be even worse when it comes to fighters both the new fighter skills are looking like x12

Looks at wallet
Welp...which FAX do I want to pay for....again?
Oh wait, I don't know because I don't have any details.

Yes because adding 4.5 million sp and adding 12 million sp is an equivalent event.

Oh and did they have injectors in game when the 4.5 million sp was added? Man, everyone but you totally missed them.

What happens if a pilot logs in his carrier, and there are no SP in his carrier skill?

I fear this is a concerning step away from how such things have been handled in the past.

As of right now carriers server two roles, that of being a carrier, and that of being a triage carrier. After the FAX releases, part of that ability will be split off into this new ship, behind a new skill which must be bought and trained.

Traditionally the rule has always been, "If you can do it before, you can do it now". This is a shift from that to "We will allow you to choose which of these two you want, but we will give you some time to prepare." which is pretty far from the same thing.

I understand that this issue is somewhat mild in the grand scheme of things, and doesn't really directly effect me, but I believe it sends a very dangerous message. Especially as SP now has a tangible monetary value to CCP beyond subscription reward.

No, the rule has not and never has been that.
The rule was 'If you could fly it before you can fly it after'

There are a number of historical changes where a ship has had it's role significantly changed, such as the mining ships I mentioned earlier, or for the geddon from a laser boat to a neut boat, and other missile/turret boat changes, none of which received any kind of refund.

Why?
I need to pay for every thing.

CCP for very long time uphold rule : If you can fly it now ...
You will find multiple posts from CCP employees stating this, you will find this in dev blogs.

Now CCP changed this while changing at the same time important, time consuming and expensive line of ships.

Problem is that you will be no longer capable of doing the same stuff like before after this changes.
In some cases this is very big change.

So, you can't siphon off 500k SP like the rest of us? Huh, I totally missed that in the patch notes.

You are correct that ships that have been altered have not have refunding, but this is actually splitting off some of the functionality and expecting people to buy it a second time.

This situation doesn't map exactly to anything in the past, and they are free to implement this as is. It isn't terrible, just disappointing.

The troubling bit is that they seem to acknowledge that there is a choice to be made, a choice you didn't have to make before. They opted to side with not allowing magic SP to appear, which is different than past events. All I am saying is I hope that this is not a step towards evaluating SP as a monetizable asset, and thus granting SP as potential loss revenue, as this would impact future decisions as well as this one.

Except it does.
The mining ship changes split off mining from all the racial frigates and introduced a new skill for ore frigates. And people were not awarded the ore frigate skill based on their racial frigates.
Certainly the SP involved was a much smaller number, but the principle was exactly the same.

That said, I'm not against CCP changing their policy, but they are not being inconsistent with their policy nor is this a totally new and unprecedented situation.

convenient they changed their stance now that they sell extractors

Because otherwise those pilots lost access to existing hulls that they could use.

This change to carriers is more akin to the mining frigates & cruisers losing all their bonuses to mining and the new mining frigate being introduced. Where CCP did not award skill points because the hulls still existed and could still be flown.

And I sure don't remember lots of experienced people screaming that it wasn't fair that they didn't get given the new mining frigate at V. As I said before I am neutral, but historical precedent of this sort of change actually is that people have to train the new hull.

I really like that argument, but I am afraid I don't think it quite applies either. The mining frigates were new ships designed to fill a roll that was not being filled by the T1s, and freed up those hulls to be used for something else entirely. The difference is there is no specific skill to fly the racial T1s, and so the number of people who would feel "cheated" by this, as opposed to being happy to train the new skill, would be very very low.

I still see this as being far closer to the destroyer and BC split.

So going by historical example CCP is actually being more generous than in the past already by allowing people to respec to the new skill (or to something else entirely even).
Sure the SP involved is more, but a larger SP number does not change the principle, it just changes it from newbies being affected to vets being affected. And suddenly we see lots of screaming this time.

I really can't agree with that.
There was a T1 frigate bonused with mining. And people did use them
There were T1 cruisers bonused with mining.
The skill split removed all that ability from that 'skill' and put it into a totally new skill with a totally new ship.

This is exactly the situation that is happening with the Carriers.
The two differences are the Sp involved is a lot more, and the split is 50/50 while the T1 racial skills kept most of their 'attributes' as there was more than one hull the skill gave access to to begin with.
But the actual situation is the same, just a difference in details.

So going by historical example CCP is actually being more generous than in the past already by allowing people to respec to the new skill (or to something else entirely even).
Sure the SP involved is more, but a larger SP number does not change the principle, it just changes it from newbies being affected to vets being affected. And suddenly we see lots of screaming this time.

you can reallocate your refunded skillpoints right back into your racial carrier skill so you can fly both ships

I really can't agree with that.
There was a T1 frigate bonused with mining. And people did use them
There were T1 cruisers bonused with mining.
The skill split removed all that ability from that 'skill' and put it into a totally new skill with a totally new ship.

This is exactly the situation that is happening with the Carriers.
The two differences are the Sp involved is a lot more, and the split is 50/50 while the T1 racial skills kept most of their 'attributes' as there was more than one hull the skill gave access to to begin with.
But the actual situation is the same, just a difference in details.

So going by historical example CCP is actually being more generous than in the past already by allowing people to respec to the new skill (or to something else entirely even).
Sure the SP involved is more, but a larger SP number does not change the principle, it just changes it from newbies being affected to vets being affected. And suddenly we see lots of screaming this time.

There was no difficulty in giving 4.5m sp to battlecruiser pilots.

Skills that need refunding.

Racial Carriers
Fighters
Fighter Bombers
Capital Energy Transfers
Capital Remove Armor Repair
Capital Remote Shield Repair
Capital Remote Energy Transfer
Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration

TBH, with such a shake up of capitals, id also suggest that;

Advances Spaceship Command
Capital Ships
Racial Dreadnoughts
Capital Armor Repair
Capital Shield Repair
Capital Weapon Systems (multiple)
Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration

...should be refunded too.

Allow people to make the choice where they want to land in the new meta. Its lame enough that you are taking a role that many of us can currently perform and making us train another 40 days at the cost of 500m. Without also binding us on decisions we made on an out of date meta.