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Sticky:[March] Damage Control Tiericide

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Vic Jefferson Stimulus Rote Kapelle 885	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:35:39 - [31] - Quote Um...Errr...So a few questions come to mind. I'm not going to do the math right now, but this means all Gallente ships get a bigger base EHP buff than other ships. I think about solo comet fits, which can sub another magstab for the old DCU, and still have beast EHP care of free resists in conjunction with even more damage, and it was already arguably top of the heap for this sort of thing. It tapers off with bigger ship classes where resists matter much more, but at least with frigates, this is sort of a big deal. Have you considered different classes/sizes of ships having different base hull resistance? Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
Mark Marketson Ravens Of Faith and Light 0	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:36:14 - [32] - Quote I think the freighter EHP buff was needed, ganking was too cheap. LIke this change.
Jin'taan Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 28	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:36:54 - [33] - Quote I'm not saying I called this But I totally called this
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate 1873	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:41:35 - [34] - Quote Gallente Master Race Akrasjel Lanate Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate Executor of Naquatech Syndicate Citizen of Solitude
Hendrink Collie Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation. 85	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:45:42 - [35] - Quote Mai Khumm wrote: Berry Nice wrote: So let me get this straight: Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call. But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit. Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters? edit: let me say this A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Good... Yeah, I'm not seeing the issue here.
X Gallentius Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 2918	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:46:55 - [36] - Quote I think you missed the "Federation Navy Damage Control" in your list. JUSTK is recruiting.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2201	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:47:39 - [37] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, I'm not sure freighters need to be any safer, but at least I am glad you are now on record saying that you "like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking". History has shown that has not been your development stance in the past, but I will now know not to worry too much if another nerf to suicide ganking is announced as a buff will be right around the corner.
Mai Khumm Lonetrek Freeport 780	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:48:51 - [38] - Quote Hendrink Collie wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Berry Nice wrote: So let me get this straight: Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call. But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit. Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters? edit: let me say this A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Good... Yeah, I'm not seeing the issue here. You Should need 4-5 Billion to pop a ship in Highsec that's worth 8-9 Billion. Risk vs. Reward
Tabyll Altol Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two 150	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:51:08 - [39] - Quote So finally the freighters get their buff so they can be safer while autopiloting through eve, because we need more afk work in eve. NOT! But nice thing about the Damgecontrols. -1 to freighterbuff +1 for the damagecontrols
Silver Isu Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:51:26 - [40] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, and after the February Wreck HP change these ships can handle a bit more tank without the "predator and prey" environment being thrown out of whack. So you fixed a completely broken, uncounterable mechanic. This does not justify a massive blanket buff to freighter EHP. Not speaking about all the other gank targets as well. Gankers punish people for stupidity. Untanked people oblivious to their surroundings are prime targets. Now you are seriously nerfing ganking by giving all gank targets a free EHP buff. During the past few years CCP has shown a consistent trend to nerf ganking. Every "buff" has been met with several nerfs, so the predator and prey environment is already out of whack.

Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4956	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:52:15 - [41] - Quote How will this work with Bastion mode on Marauders? Will they have have a base hull resist of 66% when Bastion is activated? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hector Gonzalos Voices in our heads 0	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:54:02 - [42] - Quote Are Bastion modules' bonus res to structure going to be untouched as well? This could lead to some pretty beefy Marauders.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2351	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:54:04 - [43] - Quote Mai Khumm wrote: Hendrink Collie wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Berry Nice wrote: So let me get this straight: Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call. But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit. Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters? edit: let me say this A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Good... Yeah, I'm not seeing the issue here. You Should need 4-5 Billion to pop a ship in Highsec that's worth 8-9 Billion. Risk vs. Reward Freighters are only worth 1.something billion. JFs are less than 7. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 328	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:54:25 - [44] - Quote Does this change the balance or strength between the Reactive hardener and the damage control?
Elizabeth Norn Nornir Research 812	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:56:03 - [45] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: adding a base 33% hull resistance to ships by default. Will polarized weapons will negate this? WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
Hendrink Collie Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation. 86	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:59:06 - [46] - Quote Silver Isu wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, and after the February Wreck HP change these ships can handle a bit more tank without the "predator and prey" environment being thrown out of whack. So you fixed a completely broken, uncounterable mechanic. This does not justify a massive blanket buff to freighter EHP. Not speaking about all the other gank targets as well. Gankers punish people for stupidity. Untanked people oblivious to their surroundings are prime targets. Now you are seriously nerfing ganking by giving all gank targets a free EHP buff. During the past few years CCP has shown a consistent trend to nerf ganking. Every "buff" has been met with several nerfs, so the predator and prey environment is already out of whack. You hiding behind a freshly made alt account aside, ganking has become a well-oiled machine. They need a new wrench every now and then. Things were getting way too easy for the gank crowd. Guess you will have to adjust accordingly.
Hendrink Collie Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation. 86	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:59:53 - [47] - Quote Elizabeth Norn wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: adding a base 33% hull resistance to ships by default. Will polarized weapons will negate this? It strips out all other built in resist, so I'd assume so, yeah.
Mai Khumm Lonetrek Freeport 780	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:00:18 - [48] - Quote Querns wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Hendrink Collie wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Berry Nice wrote: So let me get this straight: Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call. But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit. Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters? edit: let me say this A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Good... Yeah, I'm not seeing the issue here. You Should need 4-5 Billion to pop a ship in Highsec that's worth 8-9 Billion. Risk vs. Reward Freighters are only worth 1.something billion. JFs are less than 7. Did you ask permission to post in this thread? It's more buttons then "F1"
eiedu Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 16	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:01:11 - [49] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, and after the February Wreck HP change these ships can handle a bit more tank without the "predator and prey" environment being thrown out of whack. I would just like to point out that the correlation between wreck HP and freighter HP is coincidental. Wrecks having more HP does not make it easier to gank freighters. Whereas freighters having more hp actually makes it harder to gank. All you're really doing is throwing the "predator and prey" environment out of whack. So how about you buy us dinner first?
Adam Lyon Incident Command Local Is Primary 15	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:02:35 - [50] - Quote I'd like to see the new IFFAs at the same CPU requirements for the current ones. There are a lot of fits that use IFFAs for fitting rather than vanity over the M3 version and at the end of the day 3 cpu can kill certain niche fits.

Mark Marketson Ravens Of Faith and Light 0	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:03:11 - [51] - Quote Querns wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Hendrink Collie wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Berry Nice wrote: So let me get this straight: Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call. But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit. Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters? edit: let me say this A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Good... Yeah, I'm not seeing the issue here. You Should need 4-5 Billion to pop a ship in Highsec that's worth 8-9 Billion. Risk vs. Reward Freighters are only worth 1.something billion. JFs are less than 7. yep, and how many T1 catalyst you need to pop a freighter in .5 system? About 300 M ISK worth?
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2351	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:04:09 - [52] - Quote Mai Khumm wrote: Querns wrote: Freighters are only worth 1.something billion. JFs are less than 7. Did you ask permission to post in this thread? It's more buttons then "F1" I have a special posting dispensation -- I no longer have to post form 1488-GBS to be allowed permission to post in a thread. I will, however, take your inability to form a coherent argument as an admission of defeat. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Anthar Thebess 1452	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:05:34 - [53] - Quote This is bit extreme change for all type of ships, people will abuse it. Armagedons, moros , revelation - and all similar ships will be bulkhead tanked by default. This will limit small guys ganking, as you will need big group of gankers - so this kind of ganks will be limited for sure. People will stop hauling 1 bil in bulkhead freighters, because it is safe they will pack more. Super, do they deserve so huge buff? You want to change freighter ganking? Give them bonus to resistances connected to race. This way there will be no more 1 gank ship for all ganks. Do it only for freighter not to all ships. Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Light Combat Drone Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S 1	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:06:19 - [54] - Quote Berry Nice wrote: A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Nice fake, exagerated math there! With a 33% increase to hull would mean a fully-bulkheaded, all Vs Anshar which costs 7.5B isk and sacrificed cargo for EHP and can only carry 121k m3 of it, would require 17 pilots in Taloses (costing 2.4B isk) to kill it in 0.5 if they set up the gank right and prime Concord.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2352	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:07:50 - [55] - Quote Mark Marketson wrote: yep, and how many T1 catalyst you need to pop a freighter in .5 system? About 300 M ISK worth? A lot less than you'd need to pop the same freighter that actually fit for running through the known highsec chokepoints in the game. If you're unwilling to use the tools the game provides you to safeguard yourself, CCP shouldn't have to hold your hand. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Agent Known Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 53	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:07:52 - [56] - Quote Querns wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Hendrink Collie wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Berry Nice wrote: So let me get this straight: Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call. But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit. Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters? edit: let me say this A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Good... Yeah, I'm not seeing the issue here. You Should need 4-5 Billion to pop a ship in Highsec that's worth 8-9 Billion. Risk vs. Reward Freighters are only worth 1.something billion. JFs are less than 7. You're forgetting that many ganked freighters have a bunch of loot which is the whole point of the gank to begin with (unless you're bored and gank an empty JF). Yes, more manpower will be required and it will increase the floor of when it's profitable to gank based on cargo contents (so, more than 1b in a freighter to maybe 1.5b before profitability? Not sure how many extra ships). Suicide ganking is a zero-risk exercise, so there should be more of a cost to essentially get billions in loot that's still quite an amount even if split between more people.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu Bunnyhopping days 290	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:09:41 - [57] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, I'm not sure freighters need to be any safer, but at least I am glad you are now on record saying that you "like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking". History has shown that has not been your development stance in the past, but I will now know not to worry too much if another nerf to suicide ganking is announced as a buff will be right around the corner. I'm sure that they are aware how skewed things are towards gankers. While not the ultimate solution, this change at least shows that the guys in development are aware of the need to balance the field somewhat, so I'm looking forward to future changes of looting (and maybe even bumping) mechanics. Also, very interesting change overall.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 1985	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:11:57 - [58] - Quote Good job, nice execution. Still though, the real issue with suicide ganking isn't so much the kill part, it's the endless bumping beforehand... EHPs don't actually matter that much when you put them in comparison with other parts of a suicide gank. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Mai Khumm Lonetrek Freeport 780	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:12:44 - [59] - Quote Querns wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Querns wrote: Freighters are only worth 1.something billion. JFs are less than 7. Did you ask permission to post in this thread? It's more buttons then "F1" I have a special posting dispensation -- I no longer have to post form 1488-GBS to be allowed permission to post in a thread. I will, however, take your inability to form a coherent argument as an admission of defeat. The original OP that I quoted really didn't need a reply to defeat. As Fozzie already killed that off in a previous post. So if you wish that I was "defeated" then...whatever. Believe whatever you're told to believe... Now shoo....
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2352	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:14:06 - [60] - Quote Agent Known wrote: You're forgetting that many ganked freighters have a bunch of loot which is the whole point of the gank to begin with (unless you're bored and gank an empty JF). Yes, more manpower will be required and it will increase the floor of when it's profitable to gank based on cargo contents (so, more than 1b in a freighter to maybe 1.5b before profitability? Not sure how many extra ships). Suicide ganking is a zero-risk exercise, so there should be more of a cost to essentially get billions in loot that's still quite an amount even if split between more people. Far be it for you to exercise a modicum of restraint in your cargo value when transiting known dangerous areas, or gasp not transiting them at all. Limiting your loot value not only reduces the likelihood that you'll be targeted, but it also reduces the potential payout to the gankers. You can also use the humble Jump Freighter's built-in jump drive to transit past the choke points to reduce your risk further. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.



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