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Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:04:00 - [781] Originally by: Zrevak Ashek The point is that this is a dubious exloit of a gamemechanic intended for the purpous of punishing players for logging off in the middle of a fight to save their pod or ship. This was NOT the goddamned case with WOTANKINS Titan. Far from it! ..and THERE lies the goddamned exploit! Is it so goddamned hard to understand, you frackin morons? No, thats simply one of the effects. The intended purpose was to make people who have been agressed remain in space for 15minutes. Which is exactly what happens.
Dekiri Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:04:00 - [782] Why do these threads always end in noobs babbling about pew pew while the pew pew is done by other people and the noobs have no clue what they are talking about or are generally talking out of their anus. The best part is that 90% of the people are so focused on thier own faction that they sound like complete lunatics without any objective thought in their hardly existant brains. It would really be refreshing if there was a forum section for people that are halfway smart and who can admire a smart plan even if it was done by the other side. No matter what you say, it was ***** brilliant and it was probably, if you go by the wording in the EULA, an exploit, although not a bannable one, because CCP usually does not ban people for figuring out something new that is not OBVIOUSLY an exploit and this is apparently not. ERGO -> either CCP reimburses it and by that calls it an exploit or CCP legalises this as within game mechanics by not calling it an exploit, all you lunatics are wrong by default, because you believe that there is only one truth! In any case do not expect a single BAN over this, because that would definitly be unfair. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur**
Alexxi Ljung Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:06:00 - [783] All you idiots screaming and whining , OMG BOB HAX CHEATS BOD H0H0h0 makes me puke . Bob used a spy who trigger the titan , he logged off and died . IS IN THE GAME MECHANICS , so they used the GAME MECHANICS to kill d2 beloved titan , they didnt use some kind of hack like you all want to believe , they are just simply better then the rest of you monkeys :) , get over with it :P
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:13:00 - [784] Originally by: Gallente Caliente Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Gallente Caliente Originally by: Edde Bebbi The point is, EVERYTHING BOB did WAS an intended purpose of the game mechanics and therefore the advantage ISNT UNFAIR. Wrong. You're a fool if you think CCP intends for people to die while logged off and having no knowledge that they've been agressed. That's this scenario, what are you talking about now? Damage logs? If he had them turned of its his fault : If a bob inty had done the damage he would have been equally unaware. How do you see a damage log when you've hit the escape button and are about to hit quit? And IN THIS SCENARIO there's no way a bob inty could've done it thanks to the POS he was parked at. As I said before CCP has the final say, however seeing how they have treated other circumstances (wreck shooting), this is obviously an abuse of a game mechanic. How is that BoBs fault?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:14:00 - [785] Originally by: Zrevak Ashek Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Zrevak Ashek The point is that this is a dubious exloit of a gamemechanic intended for the purpous of punishing players for logging off in the middle of a fight to save their pod or ship. This was NOT the goddamned case with WOTANKINS Titan. Far from it! ..and THERE lies the goddamned exploit! Is it so goddamned hard to understand, you frackin morons? No, thats simply one of the effects. The intended purpose was to make people who have been agressed remain in space for 15minutes. Which is exactly what happens. This is only your supposed interpretations of the wording. Nothing more! Being the BOB lover that you are, you will continue to twist anything in order to come out on top in this argument, and I predict Rightous Fury will follow you The exact same argument applies to everyone disagreeing such as you. The difference is what Righteous and I are saying is BACKED UP by what actually happens ingame!
Krystian Caldari No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:15:00 - [786] Dam that sucks. Hope it was insured. I have a feeling this will be but the tip of the iceberg on dirty tactics. Just wow...
preturi	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:17:00 - [787] No , i think there are alot of ppl here hating bob nomatter what . people who think and they want to believe that bob hacks , cheats and use underhand tactics to get where they are now . On the other hand in this incident ther was a SPY ( allowed by CCP ) who used a smartbomb to trigger the pvp timer ( feature implemented by CCP ) on the D2 titan . Is not bob nor CCP fault that the titan pilot didnt checked the logs before he logged out or becose he didnt paid attention at the damage message for the smartbomb . Those are facts so stop blaming CCP, bob and the massons for the incident , your just making yourselfs look like fools , was a legitimate kill and d2 wont get their erebus back from CCP
Alexxi Ljung Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:18:00 - [788] No , i think there are alot of ppl here hating bob nomatter what . people who think and they want to believe that bob hacks , cheats and use underhand tactics to get where they are now . On the other hand in this incident ther was a SPY ( allowed by CCP ) who used a smartbomb to trigger the pvp timer ( feature implemented by CCP ) on the D2 titan . Is not bob nor CCP fault that the titan pilot didnt checked the logs before he logged out or becose he didnt paid attention at the damage message for the smartbomb . Those are facts so stop blaming CCP, bob and the massons for the incident , your just making yourselfs look like fools , was a legitimate kill and d2 wont get their erebus back from CCP
Zylatis AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:18:00 - [789] s'ok, d2 has like 10 more.
Alexxi Ljung Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:19:00 - [790] Yea and i have soo soo many vaga bpos laying on my hangars :)

Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:20:00 - [791] Edited by: Swift Wind on 17/02/2007 09:19:10 Edited by: Swift Wind on 17/02/2007 09:17:38 Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Zrevak Ashek Originally by: Edde Bebbi Originally by: Zrevak Ashek The point is that this is a dubious exloit of a gamemechanic intended for the purpous of punishing players for logging off in the middle of a fight to save their pod or ship. This was NOT the goddamned case with WOTANKINS Titan. Far from it! ..and THERE lies the goddamned exploit! Is it so goddamned hard to understand, you frackin morons? No, thats simply one of the effects. The intended purpose was to make people who have been agressed remain in space for 15minutes. Which is exactly what happens. This is only your supposed interpretations of the wording. Nothing more! Being the BOB lover that you are, you will continue to twist anything in order to come out on top in this argument, and I predict Rightous Fury will follow you The exact same argument applies to everyone disagreeing such as you. The difference is what Righteous and I are saying is BACKED UP by what actually happens ingame! SirMolle ?? Keep thumping your chest, it's working so far.... :) When you absolutly NEED to know...
Goldis	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:22:00 - [792] I think you have lost the point of the game. This is a massive online role playing game. Dying in this game while offline cannot be justified by using role playing terms. Unless, of course, the titan pilot was having a heart attack or something. Things like these inevitably happen in any game, sometimes its lag, sometimes minor bugs or "exploits",sometimes its just stupidity, like going afk. The truth remains, tho, that actively pursuing flaws like these to abuse, reduces the quality of the game. Not much different than jumping up and down screaming "I won!" after your opponent in chess accidentally knocks his king over. Anyway I just started playing 2 weeks ago, feel free to ignore my ramblings.
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:23:00 - [793] Originally by: Krystian Dam that sucks. Hope it was insured. I have a feeling this will be but the tip of the iceberg on dirty tactics. Just wow... Insuring a titan would be difficult, as they dont fit in stations
Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:24:00 - [794] Originally by: Goldis I think you have lost the point of the game. This is a massive online role playing game. Dying in this game while offline cannot be justified by using role playing terms. Exactly, their birth was RP news.. Their death is not... When you absolutly NEED to know...
Ctharth M'8'S	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:26:00 - [795] Originally by: Zrevak Ashek This is only your supposed interpretations of the wording. Nothing more! Being the BOB lover that you are, you will continue to twist anything in order to come out on top in this argument, and I predict Rightous Fury will follow you And on the other side all bob haters will do the same. Listen to dekiri he put it much more smoothly than I. But I have to say he also interprets it as an exploit. which is again personal interpratation of how the game should work. What really would be nice was a documented statement!!! (I have seen none of these as of yet(and normally the acusers bear the burden of proof and the accused is innocent until proven guilty but that is offcourse only if you want a fair game :))) None has been seen as of yet. and before itended mechaninchs are documented it is all a question about interpretation. and interpratation of the eula and personal feeling about how it should be are worth b...kiss- It all comes down to: if there indeed is documented statements saying that it is not intended this way- its an exploit. if not. it is not an exploit. It can be made one for sure yeah. but since it hasnt been documented yet this is of now not an exploit and bob/ spy whoever cant be banned or whatever.(and titan wont be reimbursed)personal feelings are not and newer will be a source of documentation! I¦m sure that someone that accidently killed a boy in a car accident wont get put into the great sleep just because the parrents of that boy hates the man and considders it a murder. iF or when this gets clearly defined an exploit ppl doing this will sufffer the consequences. But not before. Until then.. its just part of the game.... oh yeah the game!!! and if you dont like the game just log into RL and grind some xp there.
Mestoth Minmatar Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:49:00 - [796] Ignoring any other part of this thread: Using a SPY to find out where a titan is or where it is being built is LEGIT. Sending a fleet to destroy the POS manufacturing it is LEGIT. Oh and before you whine about LAGSPLOITZ; Most of our fleet spent the time on Loading screens just like you...infact you guys defending had the advantage as the POS shield recharged whilst the server was going screwy! Nuff said. Not going to comment on the D2 loss as i dont know the full story, rumor specucation is stupid.
zwiss StateCorp	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:54:00 - [797] I think this is only about the second time I've ever been compelled to post on the forums in the last three years. If this really is how it went down then it's an obscene abuse of game mechanics. As clever as the plan is, I would feel pretty lame killing anything like this, especially given how Cyvvok's Titan was lost. Is relying on the PvP timer going to become the accepted manner of killing titans? Can we really say that we're okay with the most inspiring constructs within the game being destroyed thanks to people having to go AFK? Fight actual battles, and do so within the spirt of the game. To do anything else is wasting everyone's time.
Erika Hulme 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:55:00 - [798] The kill looks well within the game mechanics, I can't see why we have 20+ pages of useless whining. Any half decent low sec pirate knows that a safespot-ed and logged off freighter traveling with a webbing corpmate to speedup the warp can be easily probed down and killed due to friendly fire aggression time from the web. And this is just a common knowledge example.
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:01:00 - [799] Originally by: Erika Hulme The kill looks well within the game mechanics, I can't see why we have 20+ pages of useless whining. Any half decent low sec pirate knows that a safespot-ed and logged off freighter traveling with a webbing corpmate to speedup the warp can be easily probed down and killed due to friendly fire aggression time from the web. And this is just a common knowledge example. Are smartbombs meant to damage stuff inside a POS bubble? If not it was obviously not a legit kill (if the titan was inside which is a bit of a problem with it's size). Otherwise it's well within the game mechanics, but it's also BoB sinking to a new low. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Ctharth M'8'S	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:02:00 - [800] Originally by: dalman Originally by: Erika Hulme The kill looks well within the game mechanics, I can't see why we have 20+ pages of useless whining. Any half decent low sec pirate knows that a safespot-ed and logged off freighter traveling with a webbing corpmate to speedup the warp can be easily probed down and killed due to friendly fire aggression time from the web. And this is just a common knowledge example. Are smartbombs meant to damage stuff inside a POS bubble? If not it was obviously not a legit kill (if the titan was inside which is a bit of a problem with it's size). Otherwise it's well within the game mechanics, but it's also BoB sinking to a new low. screenshots shows it was outside of the shield

christoforos Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:05:00 - [801] Originally by: Erika Hulme The kill looks well within the game mechanics, I can't see why we have 20+ pages of useless whining. Any half decent low sec pirate knows that a safespot-ed and logged off freighter traveling with a webbing corpmate to speedup the warp can be easily probed down and killed due to friendly fire aggression time from the web. And this is just a common knowledge example. The huge difference is that the freighter pilot would have logged in a safe spot intentionally to save the freighter. The aggresion timer, was created to "punish" those that try to avoid combat by logging off, not to be used as a secret weapon against people who have taken precautions to be not involved in combat for more than 15 minutes, as it this case. Especially since the someone caused deliberately the aggression and it was not an accident. It's a borderline use of game mechanics. I would not be proud of it in any case and I believe it should be reimbursed. At least I hope CCP will implement at last some kind of aggresion indicator.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:07:00 - [802] Edited by: Aramendel on 17/02/2007 10:05:51 Originally by: Edde Bebbi Damage logs? If he had them turned of its his fault : If a bob inty had done the damage he would have been equally unaware. - damage logs (and sounds & effects, which should include the smartbomb animation) are generally turned off for fleet battle situations because the lag they cause. Having them turns on is no realistic option there. If you have any clue what you are talking about you will know this very well - so either you are clueless or trolling. - It's not your job (or right) to call it exploiting or not exploiting but CCPs Originally by: Ctharth screenshots shows it was outside of the shield The only screenshot I have seen with the dread outside the pos is with a cov ops which has a smartbomb on cooldown. I so far do not have seen any picture which shows the smartbomb actually damaging the dread.
Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:11:00 - [803] Edited by: Swift Wind on 17/02/2007 10:10:20 Edited by: Swift Wind on 17/02/2007 10:08:20 Originally by: Erika Hulme The kill looks well within the game mechanics Is ensuring your target is unaware of an aggro timer for the purpose of immobilizing their vessel within the game CONCEPT? Do you really think it was the intent of the timer? What module do you use to prevent this? When you absolutly NEED to know...
Local pusher	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:12:00 - [804] Edited by: Local pusher on 17/02/2007 10:11:28 Originally by: christoforos It's a borderline use of game mechanics. I would not be proud of it in any case and I believe it should be reimbursed. At least I hope CCP will implement at last some kind of aggresion indicator. It's borderline, but very well within game mechanic rules. Which are very well known and bobits just used them in their favour. Is webbing freighters so they can warp away faster, intended? Or should every alliane get all their freighter pilots banzored because they used game mechanics feature/flaw/unintended side effect to their favour? Honestly, I'd be very very proud of such kill. Well tought, well planed and flawless execution.
Matrix Aran Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:16:00 - [805] Originally by: Goldis I think you have lost the point of the game. This is a massive online role playing game. Dying in this game while offline cannot be justified by using role playing terms. Unless, of course, the titan pilot was having a heart attack or something. Things like these inevitably happen in any game, sometimes its lag, sometimes minor bugs or "exploits",sometimes its just stupidity, like going afk. The truth remains, tho, that actively pursuing flaws like these to abuse, reduces the quality of the game. Not much different than jumping up and down screaming "I won!" after your opponent in chess accidentally knocks his king over. Anyway I just started playing 2 weeks ago, feel free to ignore my ramblings. Actualy CCP Started dropping the RP part from MMORP a while back in thier press material. Nowadays it's usualy refered to as an MMO without the Rp implication. CCP still support RP to a degree but i think they realise the fact that its rather sparce. ----
Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:44:00 - [806] Originally by: Matrix Aran Originally by: Goldis I think you have lost the point of the game. This is a massive online role playing game. Dying in this game while offline cannot be justified by using role playing terms. Unless, of course, the titan pilot was having a heart attack or something. Things like these inevitably happen in any game, sometimes its lag, sometimes minor bugs or "exploits",sometimes its just stupidity, like going afk. The truth remains, tho, that actively pursuing flaws like these to abuse, reduces the quality of the game. Not much different than jumping up and down screaming "I won!" after your opponent in chess accidentally knocks his king over. Anyway I just started playing 2 weeks ago, feel free to ignore my ramblings. Actualy CCP Started dropping the RP part from MMORP a while back in thier press material. Nowadays it's usualy refered to as an MMO without the Rp implication. CCP still support RP to a degree but i think they realise the fact that its rather sparce. If that is the case, why are they touting reasons for the White Wolf Merger as such a bonus to the Eve RP community? When you absolutly NEED to know...
August Personage Caldari Clarf Inc	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:45:00 - [807] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 17/02/2007 10:05:51 Originally by: Ctharth screenshots shows it was outside of the shield The only screenshot I have seen with the dread outside the pos is with a cov ops which has a smartbomb on cooldown. I so far do not have seen any picture which shows the smartbomb actually damaging the dread. perhaps he had damage logs turned off, they're generally turned off for fleet ops ye know :P if you can see the titan outside the shield, and D2 claim it was shot through the shields using an exploit to start the aggro timer. combine the two and even if that SB didn't damage it; by d2s claims, something did (i have seen a log of the SB damaging the titan, but i don't expect you to believe me). congrats bob on yet another titan kill, using an extremely devious method :). for people to start saying that cyvoks loss was down to anything but his stupidity is forgetting the multitude of different reasons he gave for his not being online "i logged off" "i crashed" "i relogged briefly" "there was a powercut", d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo. does goonfleet get this much flaming for abusing the ctrl-q in bubbles? no. hence would bob have been flamed regardless of how they got this kill (just because they're bob)? yes. just accept it, they're better than you at this game. fear of your own inadequacy masked as anger is bad mmkay?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:56:00 - [808] Originally by: Ctharth Originally by: Zrevak Ashek This is only your supposed interpretations of the wording. Nothing more! Being the BOB lover that you are, you will continue to twist anything in order to come out on top in this argument, and I predict Rightous Fury will follow you And on the other side all bob haters will do the same. Listen to dekiri he put it much more smoothly than I. But I have to say he also interprets it as an exploit. which is again personal interpratation of how the game should work. What really would be nice was a documented statement!!! (I have seen none of these as of yet(and normally the acusers bear the burden of proof and the accused is innocent until proven guilty but that is offcourse only if you want a fair game :))) None has been seen as of yet. and before itended mechaninchs are documented it is all a question about interpretation. and interpratation of the eula and personal feeling about how it should be are worth b...kiss- It all comes down to: if there indeed is documented statements saying that it is not intended this way- its an exploit. if not. it is not an exploit. It can be made one for sure yeah. but since it hasnt been documented yet this is of now not an exploit and bob/ spy whoever cant be banned or whatever.(and titan wont be reimbursed)personal feelings are not and newer will be a source of documentation! I¦m sure that someone that accidently killed a boy in a car accident wont get put into the great sleep just because the parrents of that boy hates the man and considders it a murder. iF or when this gets clearly defined an exploit ppl doing this will sufffer the consequences. But not before. Until then.. its just part of the game.... oh yeah the game!!! and if you dont like the game just log into RL and grind some xp there. I'd say 75% of this game hasn't been documented. Your interpretation of the situation is flawed. The steps that BoB took to assassinate the Titan is not in question. They deserve every bit of credit for the work they put into geting things 'into place.' Its no different than the GHSC event that shook EVE in the scale and depth it took. However, what is in question is how the final blow was struck. Every ounce of infiltration that leads up to this kill is, in my oppinion, made null and void by an exploitation in a game mechanic. Should the kill stand? Probably. Should it be the foundation of aggression warning for normal application exiting? Absolutely! If you can't kill someone that wants to exit the game legitimately within 2 minutes then you don't deserve the kill. One of your Sigs contained inappropriate material for the eve-o forums, please email [email protected] for a explination. - hutch Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Minuz1 Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:58:00 - [809] Thank you for the details...feeling sorry for the pilot...not a situation I'd like personally. The Tech 2 Lottery is rigged, In my favor!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:01:00 - [810] Originally by: Kaylana Syi If you can't kill someone that wants to exit the game legitimately within 2 minutes then you don't deserve the kill. addendum: When that players has is not logging for the sake of avoiding PvP when they have legitimatly been aggressed by non-friendly forces. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"



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