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Boosting of logoff tactics a miscalculated side effect?

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Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:08:04 From the patch notes: Quote: Logging off inside a warp disrupt bubble (mobile warp disrupt or interdictor bubble) no longer triggers an emergency warp. Now we all know what happens if someone who is not aggressed logs out. His ship disappears within a minute, no matter if he gets aggressed within that one minute. Iirc the cloaking time on a gate is 30 seconds-ish? Now imagine the following situation: 1. Interdictor bubble is up on a gate, hostile jumps in. Hostile does not have aggression timer. 2. Hostile logs off. Before, he would attempt to emergency warp immediately out of the bubble, breaking his cloak. And the people on the gate had one minute to kill him. Now he will remain cloaked for 30 seconds, because no warp will be initiated, even while he is logged off. And you will have only 30 seconds to kill his ship. Now, unless I missed something, jumping into a camp and logging has just become even more attractive than it was before. Discuss. N.F.F. Recruitment
Seana Elria E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:13:00 - [2] Edited by: Seana Elria on 20/03/2007 00:10:31 I thought the logoff timer was 2 minutes, but even if it were simply 1, with 30 seconds of being cloaked, the remaining 30 seconds would be plenty of enough time (considering you can't tank while logged off aside from passive shield tanking) for a determined gatecamp (that has enough dps) to kill most anything. The odd battleship might slip through if it has alot of hp, but anything smaller than that still will die quickly.
Supay Caldari The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:14:00 - [3] Edited by: Supay on 20/03/2007 00:11:10 If in a passively tanked BS, or BC, then it might save them. However, remember that their tank will not be running whatsoever and any smaller ships are going to get murdered. It will still be a pain for people who aren't fitted for speed ganking when faced with large ships as it'll take too long to chew through the hitpoints. But considering the number of frigate->cruiser sized vessels which love to logoff, it's going to be a field day popping those who don't read patch notes and love logoffs. Also, they'll still be there when they log back in. If you're camping that spot, that is their night ruined. Personally, anyone who insists on logging on me still will find me bubbling them for the next few hours, regardless of how boring it is. Only one signature image is permitted on the forums, please pick one -Sahwoolo I'll be eating out of your bins!
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:14:00 - [4] Then within that 30 seconds you shoot him, and he gets agro and stays for 15 mins. What I want to know is, will logging off and logging in with another char in the same account still cause instant ship disappearance despite bubbles, agro or whatever? --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Seana Elria I thought the logoff timer was 2 minutes, but even if it were simply 1, with 30 seconds of being cloaked, the remaining 30 seconds would be plenty of enough time (considering you can't tank while logged off aside from passive shield tanking) for a determined gatecamp (that has enough dps) to kill most anything. Yes, but let's say it's not a gatecamp. Let's say you have a roaming gang of 3-4 people, a raven jumps in and logs. You have for example minmatar recon, and interdictor/points to hold him down, maybe even some sensor dampeners. So you are telling me that encouraging blobbing even further is fine? Don't forget, the time that is cut further also must include getting in range and locking the target. N.F.F. Recruitment
Supay Caldari The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Marquis Dean Then within that 30 seconds you shoot him, and he gets agro and stays for 15 mins. What I want to know is, will logging off and logging in with another char in the same account still cause instant ship disappearance despite bubbles, agro or whatever? If he logged off before you aggroed, he will not get the aggression flag. Which is why people will be logging off while still cloaked after jumping. Only one signature image is permitted on the forums, please pick one -Sahwoolo I'll be eating out of your bins!
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:12:29 Originally by: Marquis Dean Then within that 30 seconds you shoot him, and he gets agro and stays for 15 mins. NO HE DOES NOT. HE DOES NOT... READ IT AGAIN HE DOES NOT. P.S. Capslock is the cruise control for cool ;) N.F.F. Recruitment
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:12:29 Originally by: Marquis Dean Then within that 30 seconds you shoot him, and he gets agro and stays for 15 mins. NO HE DOES NOT. HE DOES NOT... READ IT AGAIN HE DOES NOT. P.S. Capslock is the cruise control for cool ;) Oh. I didn't know that. Well then the nerf only really solved half the problem then. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:21:00 - [9] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:17:26 Yes, and it made the other half, which is the more important one, a LOT worse. This is the reason for the thread. N.F.F. Recruitment
Daenethx Gallente Fallen Angel's Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 00:45:00 - [10] This will stop people logging when being warp scrammed, they have aggro. If the coward wants to log in a bubble then give him a longer aggro timer... Still won't catch frigates that log cloaked when there is no bubble, but it's a step in the right direction =]
B1G DAVE Mining and Research Industrial Organisation Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.03.20 01:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:17:26 Yes, and it made the other half, which is the more important one, a LOT worse. This is the reason for the thread. How did it make it worse? It will go from before, having no chance to kill someone, to now, have a very good chance of killing someone that logs. Its not the end of the world, and I'm just happy that at least something has been changed. Just a pity it wasn't the same for if someone is warp scrambled and they log.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.20 01:02:00 - [12] Originally by: B1G DAVE Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:17:26 Yes, and it made the other half, which is the more important one, a LOT worse. This is the reason for the thread. How did it make it worse? It will go from before, having no chance to kill someone, to now, have a very good chance of killing someone that logs. Its not the end of the world, and I'm just happy that at least something has been changed. Just a pity it wasn't the same for if someone is warp scrambled and they log. Before, if someone logged, you could still scramble them if their ship didn't warp fast enough. Now, they DO NOT WARP OUT, and so do not decloak! --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.20 01:10:00 - [13] How long is the cloak timer at a gate? Isn't it longer than 30 seconds? Like, a minute or two? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.20 01:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Hllaxiu How long is the cloak timer at a gate? Isn't it longer than 30 seconds? Like, a minute or two? 30 seconds is the cloak time, 1 minute is the logoff timer. So you have 30 seconds to kill the ship at the gate. This means that anything but a giant blob is generally screwed with regards to killing larger ships, and even a large blob might have difficulty killing a freighter. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Hllaxiu How long is the cloak timer at a gate? Isn't it longer than 30 seconds? Like, a minute or two? 30 seconds is the cloak time, 1 minute is the logoff timer. So you have 30 seconds to kill the ship at the gate. This means that anything but a giant blob is generally screwed with regards to killing larger ships, and even a large blob might have difficulty killing a freighter. I am not sure when the 30 second timer starts for the player jumping in but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a bit less for them as their screen loads. I know I have heard of people getting ganked coming out of a lagged to hell station before they even knew they were being attacked. That and remember it will take some moments for the pilot to assess the situation and choose to logoff. Granted all these things may add up to no more than seconds but they seem to be important seconds in the attempt to blow up the ship. For instance between load time and sorting out that he wants to logoff there may only be 15-20 seconds left on the timer allowing a bit more time for the camp to nail him. But yeah...a freighter would be hard to drop in under a minute to all but very large camps.
Blind Man Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:03:00 - [16] yep, the real problem is logging off while cloaked after jump in because it hurts low-sec and 0.0, whereas the loggoff out of bubbles was only in 0.0
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: B1G DAVE Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:17:26 Yes, and it made the other half, which is the more important one, a LOT worse. This is the reason for the thread. .... Before, if someone logged, you could still scramble them if their ship didn't warp fast enough. Now, they DO NOT WARP OUT, and so do not decloak! Wrong. Currently as long as they ctrl-Q before the jump-in cloak is over no amount of points will hold them, they will align and warp off. Bumping might work, but I haven't really tried it. This doesn't make things any worse than before, since it wasn't possible to kill someone quick with ctrl-q before and now at least you have 30 secs... This mostly just fixes system defense with bubbles, since now you can't just jump-in, log off, log on, and be out of the bubble.
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:17:00 - [18] Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 20/03/2007 02:23:45 Scenario: Tard encounters gatecamp and logs. Old system: Instawarp (assuming it worked), 60 seconds to probe and kill tard. New system: 30 seconds (min) to kill tard. So if you're an uber probe guy, you'd be doing pretty well to find and warp to someone within 30 seconds. I don't know about you guys but my BS gets into warp pretty damn slowly. So you're looking at around the same time really. Also have you verified that logging in a bubble doesn't instantly de-cloak you?
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Nalar Marnith Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 20/03/2007 02:15:05 Scenario: Tard encounters gatecamp and logs. Old system: Instawarp (assuming it worked), 60 seconds to probe and kill tard. New system: 30 seconds (max) to kill tard. So if you're an uber probe guy, you'd be doing pretty well to find and warp to someone within 30 seconds. I don't know about you guys but my BS gets into warp pretty damn slowly. So you're looking at around the same time really. Also have you verified that logging in a bubble doesn't instantly de-cloak you? I think you are missing it: New System: Tard sees he is in a bubble and logs off. His ship does not warp anywhere and decloaks itself in the bubble. You have 30 seconds (probably a bit more but we'll say 30 seconds) to target lock him and blow him up as he won't go anywhere so neither do you. Most bubble camps should be able to drop anything short of a battleship in that time and might even get some battleships depending on the camp and the battleship's tank.
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:29:00 - [20] Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 20/03/2007 02:29:10 Originally by: Humpalot I think you are missing it: New System: Tard sees he is in a bubble and logs off. His ship does not warp anywhere and decloaks itself in the bubble. You have 30 seconds (probably a bit more but we'll say 30 seconds) to target lock him and blow him up as he won't go anywhere so neither do you. Most bubble camps should be able to drop anything short of a battleship in that time and might even get some battleships depending on the camp and the battleship's tank. No I get it, I just didn't write it very well. That last paragraph was in reference to the old system. I will correct it, but it's recorded for posterity anyway ;)
RaWBLooD	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:36:00 - [21] oh stop whining, they cant log back in until you are done with the gatecamp.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 03:18:00 - [22] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 03:20:25 Originally by: WhiteTiger Wrong. Currently as long as they ctrl-Q before the jump-in cloak is over no amount of points will hold them, they will align and warp off. Bumping might work, but I haven't really tried it. Err... perhaps you should go out and pvp more. If someone logs and you put a point on them, they won't warp off. They will stay there scrambled until their 1 minute (if not aggressed) or 15 minute timer runs out. Quote: This doesn't make things any worse than before, since it wasn't possible to kill someone quick with ctrl-q before and now at least you have 30 secs... Read to what i wrote again, i don't know why you make up ** on the fly. Before, you had 1 minute to kill them, now you would have 30 seconds. Quote: This mostly just fixes system defense with bubbles, since now you can't just jump-in, log off, log on, and be out of the bubble. Yes, it fixes this, but it makes killing any casual person who jumps into your dictor (not neccesserely at your gate camp) exactly two times harder. Originally by:** Nalar Marnith Scenario: Tard encounters gatecamp and logs. New system: 30 seconds (min) to kill tard. It might actually be longer depending on how fast they log. Correct. Quote: Old system: Instawarp (assuming it worked), 60 seconds to probe and kill tard. Wtf is up with your instawarp. Why do you have to PROBE anyone? If they log, put a point on them, VOILA scrambled, now you have 60 seconds to kill them (According to the old system), no probing needed. I don't care about a shuttle logging on me or a frig. Those were the only ones you couldn't scramble fast enough before they left your bubble. But i do care about a battleship/battlecruiser gaining god damn near invincimode. Just think about it. Passivetanked drake is the safest ship for 0.0. If you ever get in trouble just LOG, anything short of a 20-30 man fleet can not touch you. Quote: So if you're an uber probe guy, you'd be doing pretty well to find and warp to someone within 30 seconds. I don't know about you guys but my BS gets into warp pretty damn slowly, so getting the gang to the target eats a chunk of time. So you're looking at around the same time really. No, because probing was not involved in the first place. Quote: Also have you verified that logging in a bubble doesn't instantly de-cloak you? Nope, but I don't see why it would. Originally by: Humpalot New System: Tard sees he is in a bubble and logs off. His ship does not warp anywhere and decloaks itself in the bubble. You have 30 seconds (probably a bit more but we'll say 30 seconds) to target lock him and blow him up as he won't go anywhere so neither do you. Most bubble camps should be able to drop anything short of a battleship in that time and might even get some battleships depending on the camp and the battleship's tank. Have you ever considered the goddamn fact that pvp in eve is more than stupid gatecamps? That if a battleship logs on your 4-5 man mid-sized roaming gang, which has an interdictor, you just might NOT kill him within 30 seconds but you might have been able to kill him within 60 seconds? Originally by: RaWBLooD oh stop whining, they cant log back in until you are done with the gatecamp. Go die, seriously, why do you post this **** here. If you think pvping in eve is just gatecamps, I seriously suggest you go and uninstall. N.F.F. Recruitment
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.20 03:46:00 - [23] Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 20/03/2007 03:42:59 Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 03:20:25Wtf is up with your instawarp. Why do you have to PROBE anyone? If they log, put a point on them, VOILA scrambled, now you have 60 seconds to kill them (According to the old system), no probing needed. I don't care about a shuttle logging on me or a frig. Those were the only ones you couldn't scramble fast enough before they left your bubble. But i do care about a battleship/battlecruiser gaining god damn near invincimode. Alright, so what you wanted was for people to agree with you, not discuss. There's no need to have a go at anyone who may not have a complete understanding of the mechanic. My apologies for misunderstanding the mechanic there. I've never logged off in a bubble, nor had it happen to me so I'm not 100% on the mechanic. Also, you're basing all this on an assumption yourself. It may be possible that your ship will try to warp when in a bubble, but be jammed the same way it would've if you'd had a point.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:12:00 - [24] I remember reading somewhere that shooting a ship in space, while pilot is logged off, will set aggro timer. I think it was either in some dev blog or dev post. If this doesn't work, if shooting a logged off ship at the gate doesn't set aggro timer, then it's clearly a bug. It should be fixed. Aggro timer should be independent of pilot online status. Aggro timer should be tied only to the ship itself, not pilot.
Kuma Korosu	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:19:00 - [25] So now if I warp/jump into a gate camp and I get disconnected, I'm basically dead, right?
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:22:00 - [26] They should make it so logoff drops the after-jump cloak (essentially the logoff initiates emergency warp out which is doing an "action" thus dropping the cloak and then the warp drive goes kaput as it tries to engage and finds itself in a bubble). Problem solved...
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:44:00 - [27] Edited by: Farrellus Cameron on 20/03/2007 04:40:47 NVM. ----------------------------------------------------
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Nalar Marnith Alright, so what you wanted was for people to agree with you, not discuss. There's no need to have a go at anyone who may not have a complete understanding of the mechanic. My apologies for misunderstanding the mechanic there. Incorrect - I was merely slightly annoyed by people posting things that they have made up themselves, instead of offering valid points onto the subject. Quote: I've never logged off in a bubble, nor had it happen to me so I'm not 100% on the mechanic. That's why you test things. Quote: Also, you're basing all this on an assumption yourself. It may be possible that your ship will try to warp when in a bubble, but be jammed the same way it would've if you'd had a point. Why would it? Jump into a bubble then try to press the warp button while cloaked. You will get a message about warp disruption zone bleh bleh, and you won't uncloak. So why would logging off be any different? Originally by: Humpalot They should make it so logoff drops the after-jump cloak (essentially the logoff initiates emergency warp out which is doing an "action" thus dropping the cloak and then the warp drive goes kaput as it tries to engage and finds itself in a bubble). Problem solved... No, they actually should just make it so that if you get aggressed while logged off you get the 15 minute timer, and make it so that if you log within a pos bubble you don't warp away from it. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:48:00 - [29] Quick summary for those who CBA to read: New game mechanic DECREASES rate of survival for following ships if they log off after jumping into a bubble: 1. Frigs. 2. Industrials or other ships with loads of wcs. 3. Shuttles. New game mechanic INCREASES rate of survival for following ships: 1. Cruiser sized and up Hope that makes sense. And imo, killing battleship > killing shuttle. N.F.F. Recruitment
Jenn Atreides	Posted - 2007.03.20 06:59:00 - [30] This will prevent people from logging as soon as they see the jumping notification appear. It works like this, Lets make up a fictional name say uh...Goonieswarm. The Goonieswarm FC tells everyone to get in jump range. Once in jump range he tells them to all jump and as soon as the jumping notification appears he tells them to log off. Then they all log on again and of and on and off and on and off. Then one person is told to log in and make a SS. Then the rest of them log in and that guy invites them as soon as they appear in local they warp to member and then go back to the camp and fight it or they proceed to POS where they open cyno and bring in dreads or whatever, ( just as a side note if they have enough notice the goonieswarm((fictional tm)) can get a thousand people together and do this thusly killing the node. We all know that the people jumping in get preference over the people camping, this too would effectively allow them to destroy the campers) So what this should do is prevent people from doing as above. If you don't emergency warp from inside a bubble then effectively they are inside the bubble as soon as they log during the jumping session change. So this should give the campers a field day in the killing department as all the goonieswarm ships would just decloak and sit there inside the bubble waiting to be shot at. This doesn't address the intentional node crashing event but if CCP actually fixed things rather then succombing to a knew jerk reaction they would build in a simple code that tells the player that they simply cannot log out during a session change. That would have fixed the illness rather then bandaging the wound. Jenn
Xendie Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.20 07:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Marquis Dean Then within that 30 seconds you shoot him, and he gets agro and stays for 15 mins. What I want to know is, will logging off and logging in with another char in the same account still cause instant ship disappearance despite bubbles, agro or whatever? he wont get aggro if he logged off before you shot him. and yes he will dissapear really fast so you will just see more "quick log in the alt" tactics now. Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 07:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Marquis Dean Then within that 30 seconds you shoot him, and he gets agro and stays for 15 mins. What I want to know is, will logging off and logging in with another char in the same account still cause instant ship disappearance despite bubbles, agro or whatever? he wont get aggro if he logged off before you shot him. and yes he will dissapear really fast so you will just see more "quick log in the alt" tactics now. Nah, alt thing got fixed a long while ago afaik. No matter if you just log or login an alt, won't make a difference. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 07:51:00 - [33] Originally by: Jenn Atreides This will prevent people from logging as soon as they see the jumping notification appear. It works like this, Lets make up a fictional name say uh...Goonieswarm. The Goonieswarm FC tells everyone to get in jump range. Once in jump range he tells them to all jump and as soon as the jumping notification appears he tells them to log off. Then they all log on again and of and on and off and on and off. Then one person is told to log in and make a SS. Then the rest of them log in and that guy invites them as soon as they appear in local they warp to member and then go back to the camp and fight it or they proceed to POS where they open cyno and bring in dreads or whatever, ( just as a side note if they have enough notice the goonieswarm((fictional tm)) can get a thousand people together and do this thusly killing the node. We all know that the people jumping in get preference over the people camping, this too would effectively allow them to destroy the campers) So what this should do is prevent people from doing as above. If you don't emergency warp from inside a bubble then effectively they are inside the bubble as soon as they log during the jumping session change. So this should give the campers a field day in the killing department as all the goonieswarm ships would just decloak and sit there inside the bubble waiting to be shot at. This doesn't address the intentional node crashing event but if CCP actually fixed things rather then succombing to a knew jerk reaction they would build in a simple code that tells the player that they simply cannot log out during a session change. That would have fixed the illness rather then bandaging the wound. Jenn I agree, this is a valid point. But remember, not everything is about blob warfare in eve. This just lowered the chance that you can kill any battleship that logs on your small 4 man gang 2 times. N.F.F. Recruitment
Zirth Caldari The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.20 08:34:00 - [34] A single camping ship can do about 500-700 dps no problem. There's usually about 5-15 Normal battleships have about 20.000hp, without hardeners and repping. = A dead battleship. Anything smaller is dead too.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 08:47:00 - [35] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 08:57:36 Originally by: Zirth A single camping ship can do about 500-700 dps no problem. There's usually about 5-15 Normal battleships have about 20.000hp, without hardeners and repping. = A dead battleship. Anything smaller is dead too. AGAIN. EVE IS NOT ONLY ABOUT GATECAMPS. This is the last time I say it. Please read the post(s) before replying and making yourself look like an idiot. Also the only thing that does 500-700 dps right away at 20km is a megapulse II geddon or an uber gank fitted tempest (which doesn't happen often). Possibly a neutron mega with Null too, any other ship has to get in range + you have to lock. 3-4 sec to lock, 5-10 sec to get in range + some seconds for lag etc. So you have about 15 seconds to destroy 20000hp, mind you, armor and shield have resistances. Let's take resists and average them out. Shield: 0/60/40/20, Armor 60/10/35/35 - Average resist = 30% on shield and 35% shield on armor. Let's assume BS has 7k shield, 7k armor, 7k structure, that means it would effectively have 9.1+9.45+7 = 25.55k HP. This is assuming no plates/extenders and no passive tanking mods like EANM II's fitted. Let's say you have a roaming gang, consisting of a dictor, vagabond, arazu and huginn. They'd do optimistically about 100+300+100+250=750 dps. Let's assume they can do that damage for 20 seconds. That would be 15000 damage. Ofcourse these numbers are fairly inaccurate - it all depends on player skill etc, but I believe the error margin is less than 75%. Now if that BS doesn't log, he is webbed, scrambled, dampened and killed, there's nothing he can do about it. If he logs, he is just fine. And if you are going to say "bring bigger blob" well, everything in eve can be countered by bringing more of something. Doesn't make it balanced. Anyhow, I hope, I don't read any other comments about gate camping. Gate camping has nothing to do with this. And ofc there are ways around it, like aggroing the BS on the other side with your scout - but smart people just instantly jump and then instantly log. Gatecamps aren't the problem - if you check the map, you can most likely tell that something is camped, that's why small roaming squads are nice - people don't expect them. As it stands now the change (and anyone who says "bla bla bring blob at gate") promotes blobbing. N.F.F. Recruitment
Aeon Yakati Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:43:00 - [36] Edited by: Aeon Yakati on 20/03/2007 09:50:54 I'm pretty sure the cloaking timer is about a minute, not 30 seconds. Logging timer is 1 minute as well.. Just tested cloaking timer and it's indeed 1 minute currently on TQ.. So in order to not have this logoffski fix backfire entirely, make it so that the jump cloak disappears the second you log off. Update: [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble So you wil always have close to a minute to shoot the logger. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Taiatia Ty for the colours in my sig
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:51:00 - [37] This is going to be a major kick in the nuts for those pilots with implants that are used to logging their pods in dictor bubbles to escape. I love it.
putukas Amarr Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.20 10:21:00 - [38] your points are mostly all right its only solving half problem. But imagine it other way around. If you jump in with 3-4 ppl cruiser gang and there is a raven and dictor other side of the gate and you happen to crash with 3 people. If your ships would uncloak instantly you will be dead before you can log back in and you will wtfpetition it. And this would start to happen more and more and GM's would be spammed with petitions like "i crashed, give my ship back". Anyhow with staying cloaked 30 sec you might have little more time to log back in and start fighting. So the imo the solution you guys pointed out here wont work also.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:06:00 - [39] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/03/2007 11:09:02 Currently a ship dissapears within 2 minutes. Are you saying that this is now changed to 1 minute, and add in 30 seconds of cloak it becomes 30 seconds? I am sure that the ship will remain in the bubble for 1 min 30 seconds after its 30 sec uncloak, but has anyone tested this? Or is this thread a cunning ruse to get people to log in battleships thinking they are safe? -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:10:00 - [40] Well as far as I can see the only one really bennefited are the passive tanked BC and BB wth plates. Not so anoying. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:37:00 - [41] as far as I can tell, this is all hypothetical as no one has tested a damn thing, just gone straight for the shouty ranty stuff and insulting everyone around them. Welcome to Eve -------------------------------------------- Join Now
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:44:00 - [42] Ryysa is wrong (shows how much Privateer knows about PvP). In the old system, you COULD NOT lock a ship while it was being alighed out for emergency warp. And ofcourse, you could not scramble it or damage it ecept by smartbombs. For example, I once had a bubble up with a sabre when a slow industrial jumped in. He logged ofcourse, and it took him like 30 seconds to aligh for emergency warp, but I could not lock him during this time. And since you cant lock and do damage, they dont become agressed and will disappear in 1 minute from space, which means its pretty hard to probe him fast enough (10 seconds to launch probe, 40 seconds to probe and then you only have 10 seconds to warp, approach and scramble). The new system will allow you to do damage and scramble a ship that loggs off, meaning it wont disappear from space, meaning you have unlimited time to kill it as long as you do damage atleast once every 15 minutes. In other words, every single ship will be easier to kill with the new system.
Thmuses	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:49:00 - [43] Geez, I wish I knew about this logout-thing the day before yesterday when I got pod-killed by some campers at a gate. It stinks t be a newbie.
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:51:00 - [44] Even if it would disappear 30 secs after uncloaking... he doesn't warp off... meaning... he can't log in, log off, log in, log off to get away from the gate. When he logs back in he will be right back at the gate.... 1 shot and he has agro for 15 mins at least while still in the bubble. I'll bet ya in the beginning you'll get a lot of ships that log off and log back in immediatly to get these additional 1 au jumps to get away from the gate. Those will be surprised in the beginning
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:00:00 - [45] Originally by: Aeon Yakati [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble That's downright stupid. Extending the disappearance timer (either as a whole or simply starting the count from the moment of uncloaking) makes much more sense, so that CTDers don't get instavaped in fleets. Oh wait, game mechanics with no thought given to fleet combat ? Not news.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:07:00 - [46] Originally by: Ryysa AGAIN. EVE IS NOT ONLY ABOUT GATECAMPS. This is the last time I say it. But the logging-in-bubbles issue is about gatecamps.
Zanarkand Gallente Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:17:00 - [47] Edited by: Zanarkand on 20/03/2007 12:14:27 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Ryysa is wrong (shows how much Privateer knows about PvP). In the old system, you COULD NOT lock a ship while it was being alighed out for emergency warp. And ofcourse, you could not scramble it or damage it ecept by smartbombs. For example, I once had a bubble up with a sabre when a slow industrial jumped in. He logged ofcourse, and it took him like 30 seconds to aligh for emergency warp, but I could not lock him during this time. And since you cant lock and do damage, they dont become agressed and will disappear in 1 minute from space, which means its pretty hard to probe him fast enough (10 seconds to launch probe, 40 seconds to probe and then you only have 10 seconds to warp, approach and scramble). The new system will allow you to do damage and scramble a ship that loggs off, meaning it wont disappear from space, meaning you have unlimited time to kill it as long as you do damage atleast once every 15 minutes. In other words, every single ship will be easier to kill with the new system. Please don't post on forums... ! Some people might actually believe what you say...
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:19:00 - [48] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Ryysa is wrong (shows how much Privateer knows about PvP). In the old system, you COULD NOT lock a ship while it was being alighed out for emergency warp. And ofcourse, you could not scramble it or damage it ecept by smartbombs. For example, I once had a bubble up with a sabre when a slow industrial jumped in. He logged ofcourse, and it took him like 30 seconds to aligh for emergency warp, but I could not lock him during this time. And since you cant lock and do damage, they dont become agressed and will disappear in 1 minute from space, which means its pretty hard to probe him fast enough (10 seconds to launch probe, 40 seconds to probe and then you only have 10 seconds to warp, approach and scramble). The new system will allow you to do damage and scramble a ship that loggs off, meaning it wont disappear from space, meaning you have unlimited time to kill it as long as you do damage atleast once every 15 minutes. In other words, every single ship will be easier to kill with the new system. BS. I have seen ships log out after jumping in and have been able to lock and activate modules on them, only to see them go poof a couple of seconds after. Then i would also like to adress the following quote; "shows how much Privateer knows about PvP" Go die.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Ryysa AGAIN. EVE IS NOT ONLY ABOUT GATECAMPS. This is the last time I say it. But the logging-in-bubbles issue is about gatecamps. Well if you call a roaming gang that is sitting on a gate for a minute waiting for the scout to get scrams on something a camp then yes, otherwise, no.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:22:00 - [50] Originally by: Kuma Korosu So now if I warp/jump into a gate camp and I get disconnected, I'm basically dead, right? As you should be because 99.999999999% of those "i got discornnected" fools actually just close the client to save their ship.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:23:00 - [51] Originally by: Drasked Well if you call a roaming gang that is sitting on a gate for a minute waiting for the scout to get scrams on something a camp then yes, otherwise, no. A roaming gang, a gate and a scrambling scout - where is the dictor bubble?
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:23:00 - [52] Originally by: Drasked Well if you call a roaming gang that is sitting on a gate for a minute waiting for the scout to get scrams on something a camp then yes, otherwise, no. A roaming gang, a gate and a scrambling scout - where is the dictor bubble?
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Drasked Well if you call a roaming gang that is sitting on a gate for a minute waiting for the scout to get scrams on something a camp then yes, otherwise, no. A roaming gang, a gate and a scrambling scout - where is the dictor bubble?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:24:00 - [54] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Drasked Well if you call a roaming gang that is sitting on a gate for a minute waiting for the scout to get scrams on something a camp then yes, otherwise, no. A roaming gang, a gate and a scrambling scout - where is the dictor bubble? When we roam we take alts in dictors?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:24:00 - [55] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Drasked Well if you call a roaming gang that is sitting on a gate for a minute waiting for the scout to get scrams on something a camp then yes, otherwise, no. A roaming gang, a gate and a scrambling scout - where is the dictor bubble? When we roam we take alts in dictors?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Drasked Well if you call a roaming gang that is sitting on a gate for a minute waiting for the scout to get scrams on something a camp then yes, otherwise, no. A roaming gang, a gate and a scrambling scout - where is the dictor bubble? When we roam we take alts in dictors?
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:28:00 - [57] Edited by: James Duar on 20/03/2007 12:24:32
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:28:00 - [58] Edited by: James Duar on 20/03/2007 12:24:32
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:28:00 - [59] Edited by: James Duar on 20/03/2007 12:24:32
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:25:00 - [60] Edited by: Hoshi on 20/03/2007 13:27:40 Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: Aeon Yakati [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble That's downright stupid. Extending the disappearance timer (either as a whole or simply starting the count from the moment of uncloaking) makes much more sense, so that CTDers don't get instavaped in fleets. Oh wait, game mechanics with no thought given to fleet combat ? Not news. It's not so bad as it sound because even if you are uncloaked you can NOT be locked. It's like undocking from a station, they can't lock you for 1 min after doing so unless the target does something. This is exactly what happens (tested with multiple chars on SiSi with a stop watch): Ship jumps the gate. Ship sees the bubble and logff around 10 sec after having jumped. Ship uncloaks but it's not possible to lock the ship. 1 min after he jumped the gate he becomes lockable. 10 sec later (or to be exact the amount of time between jumping the gate and logging off, could be 1 sec, could be 59 sec) the ship disappears. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:25:00 - [61] Edited by: Hoshi on 20/03/2007 13:27:40 Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: Aeon Yakati [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble That's downright stupid. Extending the disappearance timer (either as a whole or simply starting the count from the moment of uncloaking) makes much more sense, so that CTDers don't get instavaped in fleets. Oh wait, game mechanics with no thought given to fleet combat ? Not news. It's not so bad as it sound because even if you are uncloaked you can NOT be locked. It's like undocking from a station, they can't lock you for 1 min after doing so unless the target does something. This is exactly what happens (tested with multiple chars on SiSi with a stop watch): Ship jumps the gate. Ship sees the bubble and logff around 10 sec after having jumped. Ship uncloaks but it's not possible to lock the ship. 1 min after he jumped the gate he becomes lockable. 10 sec later (or to be exact the amount of time between jumping the gate and logging off, could be 1 sec, could be 59 sec) the ship disappears. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
M00dy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:30:00 - [62] Agrees with Ryysa. When I first saw the patch notes, I pumped the fist thinking that logging will no longer save you. But after thinking about it for a while, I don't think it will have the effect that CCP intended. Pew Pew
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:36:00 - [63] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 20/03/2007 13:27:40 Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: Aeon Yakati [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble That's downright stupid. Extending the disappearance timer (either as a whole or simply starting the count from the moment of uncloaking) makes much more sense, so that CTDers don't get instavaped in fleets. Oh wait, game mechanics with no thought given to fleet combat ? Not news. It's not so bad as it sound because even if you are uncloaked you can NOT be locked. It's like undocking from a station, they can't lock you for 1 min after doing so unless the target does something. This is exactly what happens (tested with multiple chars on SiSi with a stop watch): Ship jumps the gate. Ship sees the bubble and logff around 10 sec after having jumped. Ship uncloaks but it's not possible to lock the ship. 1 min after he jumped the gate he becomes lockable. 10 sec later (or to be exact the amount of time between jumping the gate and logging off, could be 1 sec, could be 59 sec) the ship disappears. in other words .. it's still the status quo? ergo logging off safes your ship in 99% of cases __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:46:00 - [64] Originally by: Drasked I have seen ships log out after jumping in and have been able to lock and activate modules on them, only to see them go poof a couple of seconds after. Then i would also like to adress the following quote; "shows how much Privateer knows about PvP" Go die. Funny how pirates always thinks they are uber in PvP, when everyone fighting in and against real alliances knows they are not :) Anyway, everything I said was true, the only time you can lock someone who logs off is if he already had the 15min agression timer. If he isnt agressed, its 100% safe to log (before this patch that is). This is also the reason why it was safe to log off in a bubble previous to this patch. Since you could not lock before emergency warp kicked in, and since emergency warp worked from within a bubble, anyone who logged off in a bubble and didnt have the agression timer was 100% safe. It did not matter how fast the ship was to align for warp. I think the reason CCP designed it like this was so mission runners would not blow up everytime they crashed to desktop, which would put a lot of strain on support (NPCs dont give agression timer).
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:49:00 - [65] Originally by: Hoshi It's not so bad as it sound because even if you are uncloaked you can NOT be locked. It's like undocking from a station, they can't lock you for 1 min after doing so unless the target does something. This is exactly what happens (tested with multiple chars on SiSi with a stop watch): Ship jumps the gate. Ship sees the bubble and logff around 10 sec after having jumped. Ship uncloaks but it's not possible to lock the ship. 1 min after he jumped the gate he becomes lockable. 10 sec later (or to be exact the amount of time between jumping the gate and logging off, could be 1 sec, could be 59 sec) the ship disappears. This is not true. A ship that jumps, and sits and wait until it is decloaked (after 30 seconds) can be locked right away once it is visible even if it doesn't do anything. Have had it happen to me several times. ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:01:00 - [66] Hmm, interesting thread but I don't understand one or two things. Maybe you people can enlighten me but before that I will tell you that I had a POS in 0.0 before it became unprofitable. And since we are only a very small corp and had no carrier service we had to fly in the fuel with industrials. Yes, and there were often camps, sometimes bubbles. We always used a scout (shuttle) and if the other side of the gate was without bubble and at max only 2 people there we jumped through. If there was a camp and/or bubble we looked for some other route, sometimes we even went back to empire. So what is this all with logging in bubbles? Don't people use scouts to avoid bubbles/camps? Why do they take these big risks of ending up in a bubble instead of using any precautions?
End Yourself Core Domination Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:09:00 - [68] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Hoshi It's not so bad as it sound because even if you are uncloaked you can NOT be locked. It's like undocking from a station, they can't lock you for 1 min after doing so unless the target does something. This is exactly what happens (tested with multiple chars on SiSi with a stop watch): Ship jumps the gate. Ship sees the bubble and logff around 10 sec after having jumped. Ship uncloaks but it's not possible to lock the ship. 1 min after he jumped the gate he becomes lockable. 10 sec later (or to be exact the amount of time between jumping the gate and logging off, could be 1 sec, could be 59 sec) the ship disappears. This is not true. A ship that jumps, and sits and wait until it is decloaked (after 30 seconds) can be locked right away once it is visible even if it doesn't do anything. Have had it happen to me several times. Have you tested this on SiSi with the latest changes mentioned in the patch notes? Because I have and what I wrote above is exactly what happens. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:09:00 - [69] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Hoshi It's not so bad as it sound because even if you are uncloaked you can NOT be locked. It's like undocking from a station, they can't lock you for 1 min after doing so unless the target does something. This is exactly what happens (tested with multiple chars on SiSi with a stop watch): Ship jumps the gate. Ship sees the bubble and logff around 10 sec after having jumped. Ship uncloaks but it's not possible to lock the ship. 1 min after he jumped the gate he becomes lockable. 10 sec later (or to be exact the amount of time between jumping the gate and logging off, could be 1 sec, could be 59 sec) the ship disappears. This is not true. A ship that jumps, and sits and wait until it is decloaked (after 30 seconds) can be locked right away once it is visible even if it doesn't do anything. Have had it happen to me several times. Have you tested this on SiSi with the latest changes mentioned in the patch notes? Because I have and what I wrote above is exactly what happens. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Hoshi It's not so bad as it sound because even if you are uncloaked you can NOT be locked. It's like undocking from a station, they can't lock you for 1 min after doing so unless the target does something. This is exactly what happens (tested with multiple chars on SiSi with a stop watch): Ship jumps the gate. Ship sees the bubble and logff around 10 sec after having jumped. Ship uncloaks but it's not possible to lock the ship. 1 min after he jumped the gate he becomes lockable. 10 sec later (or to be exact the amount of time between jumping the gate and logging off, could be 1 sec, could be 59 sec) the ship disappears. This is not true. A ship that jumps, and sits and wait until it is decloaked (after 30 seconds) can be locked right away once it is visible even if it doesn't do anything. Have had it happen to me several times. Have you tested this on SiSi with the latest changes mentioned in the patch notes? Because I have and what I wrote above is exactly what happens. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:10:00 - [71] Originally by: Ryysa Nah, alt thing got fixed a long while ago afaik. No matter if you just log or login an alt, won't make a difference. Its not, we had a namtz carrier go poof on us 2 days ago when it got bumped off the station while undocking. The pilot himself confirmed logging into an alt to make his ship dissapear.
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:10:00 - [72] Originally by: Ryysa Nah, alt thing got fixed a long while ago afaik. No matter if you just log or login an alt, won't make a difference. Its not, we had a namtz carrier go poof on us 2 days ago when it got bumped off the station while undocking. The pilot himself confirmed logging into an alt to make his ship dissapear.
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:10:00 - [73] Originally by: Ryysa Nah, alt thing got fixed a long while ago afaik. No matter if you just log or login an alt, won't make a difference. Its not, we had a namtz carrier go poof on us 2 days ago when it got bumped off the station while undocking. The pilot himself confirmed logging into an alt to make his ship dissapear.
Something Random Gallente F.S.O.	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:13:00 - [74] Edited by: Something Random on 20/03/2007 15:14:54 Originally by: Kuma Korosu So now if I warp/jump into a gate camp and I get disconnected, I'm basically dead, right? Just as though you hadnt disco.... erm crashed in the first place. Yes. Anyone that ever did it and loses connection in a bubble is gonna kick themselves after this.
Something Random Gallente F.S.O.	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:13:00 - [75] Edited by: Something Random on 20/03/2007 15:14:54 Originally by: Kuma Korosu So now if I warp/jump into a gate camp and I get disconnected, I'm basically dead, right? Just as though you hadnt disco.... erm crashed in the first place. Yes. Anyone that ever did it and loses connection in a bubble is gonna kick themselves after this.
Something Random Gallente F.S.O.	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:13:00 - [76] Edited by: Something Random on 20/03/2007 15:14:54 Originally by: Kuma Korosu So now if I warp/jump into a gate camp and I get disconnected, I'm basically dead, right? Just as though you hadnt disco.... erm crashed in the first place. Yes. Anyone that ever did it and loses connection in a bubble is gonna kick themselves after this.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:17:00 - [77] Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:17:00 - [78] Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:17:00 - [79] Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:18:00 - [80] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. and do you have idea how many kills Ryysa has? If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:18:00 - [81] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. and do you have idea how many kills Ryysa has? If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:18:00 - [82] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. and do you have idea how many kills Ryysa has? If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Harm Gently Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:20:00 - [83] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. and do you have idea how many kills Ryysa has? Apparently he does not.
Harm Gently Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:20:00 - [84] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. and do you have idea how many kills Ryysa has? Apparently he does not.
Harm Gently Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:20:00 - [85] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. and do you have idea how many kills Ryysa has? Apparently he does not.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:22:00 - [86] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Funny how pirates always thinks they are uber in PvP, when everyone fighting in and against real alliances knows they are not :) Anyway, everything I said was true, the only time you can lock someone who logs off is if he already had the 15min agression timer. If he isnt agressed, its 100% safe to log (before this patch that is). This is also the reason why it was safe to log off in a bubble previous to this patch. Since you could not lock before emergency warp kicked in, and since emergency warp worked from within a bubble, anyone who logged off in a bubble and didnt have the agression timer was 100% safe. It did not matter how fast the ship was to align for warp. I think the reason CCP designed it like this was so mission runners would not blow up everytime they crashed to desktop, which would put a lot of strain on support (NPCs dont give agression timer). Its funny how you assume that im a pirate and that i think im uber at pvp, also the part about fighting real allainces is just hilarious considering i have fought against LV and their friends / foes before. About the logging part, i have on multiple occations (100~) seen for example, a raven jump into my gang and log out before uncloaking, and then depending on the firepower in my gang us either killing that raven or the raven go poof. And have on zero (0) occations seen a ship uncloak after it logged out and had me not being able to lock it (unless it was something fast ofc).
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:22:00 - [87] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Funny how pirates always thinks they are uber in PvP, when everyone fighting in and against real alliances knows they are not :) Anyway, everything I said was true, the only time you can lock someone who logs off is if he already had the 15min agression timer. If he isnt agressed, its 100% safe to log (before this patch that is). This is also the reason why it was safe to log off in a bubble previous to this patch. Since you could not lock before emergency warp kicked in, and since emergency warp worked from within a bubble, anyone who logged off in a bubble and didnt have the agression timer was 100% safe. It did not matter how fast the ship was to align for warp. I think the reason CCP designed it like this was so mission runners would not blow up everytime they crashed to desktop, which would put a lot of strain on support (NPCs dont give agression timer). Its funny how you assume that im a pirate and that i think im uber at pvp, also the part about fighting real allainces is just hilarious considering i have fought against LV and their friends / foes before. About the logging part, i have on multiple occations (100~) seen for example, a raven jump into my gang and log out before uncloaking, and then depending on the firepower in my gang us either killing that raven or the raven go poof. And have on zero (0) occations seen a ship uncloak after it logged out and had me not being able to lock it (unless it was something fast ofc).
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:22:00 - [88] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Funny how pirates always thinks they are uber in PvP, when everyone fighting in and against real alliances knows they are not :) Anyway, everything I said was true, the only time you can lock someone who logs off is if he already had the 15min agression timer. If he isnt agressed, its 100% safe to log (before this patch that is). This is also the reason why it was safe to log off in a bubble previous to this patch. Since you could not lock before emergency warp kicked in, and since emergency warp worked from within a bubble, anyone who logged off in a bubble and didnt have the agression timer was 100% safe. It did not matter how fast the ship was to align for warp. I think the reason CCP designed it like this was so mission runners would not blow up everytime they crashed to desktop, which would put a lot of strain on support (NPCs dont give agression timer). Its funny how you assume that im a pirate and that i think im uber at pvp, also the part about fighting real allainces is just hilarious considering i have fought against LV and their friends / foes before. About the logging part, i have on multiple occations (100~) seen for example, a raven jump into my gang and log out before uncloaking, and then depending on the firepower in my gang us either killing that raven or the raven go poof. And have on zero (0) occations seen a ship uncloak after it logged out and had me not being able to lock it (unless it was something fast ofc).
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:27:00 - [89] Lets wait for the server to come up and test how it works in reality with the changes -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:27:00 - [90] Lets wait for the server to come up and test how it works in reality with the changes -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:27:00 - [91] Lets wait for the server to come up and test how it works in reality with the changes -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:28:00 - [92] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:37:09 Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:31:09 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. If you want to chestbeat, I am fairly sure I have killed about 10-20 times more ** than you have in this game, but that's beside the point. 1000 kills is what I make in two months tops. And before you whine about empire, take a look here and realize that majority of my kills are in 0.0 while being outnumbered by retarded alliances. As for your quote regarding privateer alliance, I would say something nasty, but due to you throwing RANDOM insults while saying made up crap and chestbeating making you look like a 13 year old kiddo, I will skip the insults, since the majority of the people are already laughing at you. Also, if you are looking for the CAOD forum, this is not the one. Here your alliance ticker does not matter. I am sure I could come up with some random flame like "LOL LV NO STATIONS LOLZ". At anything you post. Same goes for pretty much anyone. Anyhow, to summarize it - My nor your alliance ticker or pvp prowess has nothing to do with this. You are wrong, plain and simple, regardless on your pvp experience and your alliance ticker, and I am right. Now for the thread. Originally by:** Aeon Yakati I'm pretty sure the cloaking timer is about a minute, not 30 seconds. Logging timer is 1 minute as well.. Just tested cloaking timer and it's indeed 1 minute currently on TQ.. So in order to not have this logoffski fix backfire entirely, make it so that the jump cloak disappears the second you log off. Update: [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble I assume it decloaks as soon as you log right? If so, this solves everything. It is fairly illogical - and I had not tested this before starting the thread. Thus, this thread is based on a false concept, and is irrelevant. This change by CCP will not increase or decrease logoff tactics, ships disappearing while logged off after being fired at is a completely separate problem. And I believe that it getting fixed is the next step towards addressing problems. However if my interpretation is incorrect, since if cloak time is 1 minute, and disappear time is 2 minutes(?). Then before you had 2 minutes to kill target(?). And now you have 1 minute to kill target(?). (It still appears after you log, just it has stayed in cloak for 1 minute already(?) What really needs testing is, does the ship decloak immediately after logoff or after the cloaking timer expires. Until that is tested 100%, any discussion on this matter is rather pointless =/ N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:28:00 - [93] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:37:09 Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:31:09 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. If you want to chestbeat, I am fairly sure I have killed about 10-20 times more ** than you have in this game, but that's beside the point. 1000 kills is what I make in two months tops. And before you whine about empire, take a look here and realize that majority of my kills are in 0.0 while being outnumbered by retarded alliances. As for your quote regarding privateer alliance, I would say something nasty, but due to you throwing RANDOM insults while saying made up crap and chestbeating making you look like a 13 year old kiddo, I will skip the insults, since the majority of the people are already laughing at you. Also, if you are looking for the CAOD forum, this is not the one. Here your alliance ticker does not matter. I am sure I could come up with some random flame like "LOL LV NO STATIONS LOLZ". At anything you post. Same goes for pretty much anyone. Anyhow, to summarize it - My nor your alliance ticker or pvp prowess has nothing to do with this. You are wrong, plain and simple, regardless on your pvp experience and your alliance ticker, and I am right. Now for the thread. Originally by:** Aeon Yakati I'm pretty sure the cloaking timer is about a minute, not 30 seconds. Logging timer is 1 minute as well.. Just tested cloaking timer and it's indeed 1 minute currently on TQ.. So in order to not have this logoffski fix backfire entirely, make it so that the jump cloak disappears the second you log off. Update: [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble I assume it decloaks as soon as you log right? If so, this solves everything. It is fairly illogical - and I had not tested this before starting the thread. Thus, this thread is based on a false concept, and is irrelevant. This change by CCP will not increase or decrease logoff tactics, ships disappearing while logged off after being fired at is a completely separate problem. And I believe that it getting fixed is the next step towards addressing problems. However if my interpretation is incorrect, since if cloak time is 1 minute, and disappear time is 2 minutes(?). Then before you had 2 minutes to kill target(?). And now you have 1 minute to kill target(?). (It still appears after you log, just it has stayed in cloak for 1 minute already(?) What really needs testing is, does the ship decloak immediately after logoff or after the cloaking timer expires. Until that is tested 100%, any discussion on this matter is rather pointless =/ N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:28:00 - [94] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:37:09 Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:31:09 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle falsehood Why can't peeps just keep their mouth shut if they don't know what they are talking about instead of making themselves look like retards?!? I have several hundred solokills in a sabre, and thousands of kills alltogether. I have fought with and against BoB, D2, Five, MC and many others. I dont mean to brag, but I do know what I am talking about. Besides, if I was not correct, then emergency warp from inside a bubble would not be a problem, and it would not be fixed in this patch. First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. If you want to chestbeat, I am fairly sure I have killed about 10-20 times more ** than you have in this game, but that's beside the point. 1000 kills is what I make in two months tops. And before you whine about empire, take a look here and realize that majority of my kills are in 0.0 while being outnumbered by retarded alliances. As for your quote regarding privateer alliance, I would say something nasty, but due to you throwing RANDOM insults while saying made up crap and chestbeating making you look like a 13 year old kiddo, I will skip the insults, since the majority of the people are already laughing at you. Also, if you are looking for the CAOD forum, this is not the one. Here your alliance ticker does not matter. I am sure I could come up with some random flame like "LOL LV NO STATIONS LOLZ". At anything you post. Same goes for pretty much anyone. Anyhow, to summarize it - My nor your alliance ticker or pvp prowess has nothing to do with this. You are wrong, plain and simple, regardless on your pvp experience and your alliance ticker, and I am right. Now for the thread. Originally by:** Aeon Yakati I'm pretty sure the cloaking timer is about a minute, not 30 seconds. Logging timer is 1 minute as well.. Just tested cloaking timer and it's indeed 1 minute currently on TQ.. So in order to not have this logoffski fix backfire entirely, make it so that the jump cloak disappears the second you log off. Update: [10:49] <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble I assume it decloaks as soon as you log right? If so, this solves everything. It is fairly illogical - and I had not tested this before starting the thread. Thus, this thread is based on a false concept, and is irrelevant. This change by CCP will not increase or decrease logoff tactics, ships disappearing while logged off after being fired at is a completely separate problem. And I believe that it getting fixed is the next step towards addressing problems. However if my interpretation is incorrect, since if cloak time is 1 minute, and disappear time is 2 minutes(?). Then before you had 2 minutes to kill target(?). And now you have 1 minute to kill target(?). (It still appears after you log, just it has stayed in cloak for 1 minute already(?) What really needs testing is, does the ship decloak immediately after logoff or after the cloaking timer expires. Until that is tested 100%, any discussion on this matter is rather pointless =/ N.F.F. Recruitment
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:37:00 - [95] Originally by: Ryysa First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. No, it happens 100% of the cases, IF the person isnt agressed and logs off before decloaking and being locked. But I think someone has explained this to you already, hence why you want the thread locked.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:37:00 - [96] Originally by: Ryysa First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. No, it happens 100% of the cases, IF the person isnt agressed and logs off before decloaking and being locked. But I think someone has explained this to you already, hence why you want the thread locked.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:37:00 - [97] Originally by: Ryysa First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. No, it happens 100% of the cases, IF the person isnt agressed and logs off before decloaking and being locked. But I think someone has explained this to you already, hence why you want the thread locked.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:43:00 - [98] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:42:24 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: Ryysa First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. No, it happens 100% of the cases, IF the person isnt agressed and logs off before decloaking and being locked. But I think someone has explained this to you already, hence why you want the thread locked. Nope, wrong. It does not happen 100% of the time, this is a very rare bug. If someone who is not aggressed jumps into you and logs, he will start emergency warp, while he is aligning for warp you can LOCK him and SCRAMBLE him except in a RARE case where you have a bug where it says "failed to target because target is already in warp" (or similar). If you get enough points on him, he will be scrambled and you will have 1-2 minutes to kill him, before his ship simply vanishes. Now please don't argue about this. And stop your retarded assumptions. If you keep saying that this is not true - I would like to ask some more people to post here and prove this guy wrong. Your entire assumption that it is true is based on ONE encounter with your ship, now ONE encounter is hardly enough evidence is it? People said you are dead wrong, respectable people, how about you stfu about it already, you were wrong, admit it. Also, the reason i wanted the thread locked is - if logging off causes the cloak to drop instantly, then the issue which was brought up in the first post is irrelevant. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:43:00 - [99] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:42:24 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: Ryysa First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. No, it happens 100% of the cases, IF the person isnt agressed and logs off before decloaking and being locked. But I think someone has explained this to you already, hence why you want the thread locked. Nope, wrong. It does not happen 100% of the time, this is a very rare bug. If someone who is not aggressed jumps into you and logs, he will start emergency warp, while he is aligning for warp you can LOCK him and SCRAMBLE him except in a RARE case where you have a bug where it says "failed to target because target is already in warp" (or similar). If you get enough points on him, he will be scrambled and you will have 1-2 minutes to kill him, before his ship simply vanishes. Now please don't argue about this. And stop your retarded assumptions. If you keep saying that this is not true - I would like to ask some more people to post here and prove this guy wrong. Your entire assumption that it is true is based on ONE encounter with your ship, now ONE encounter is hardly enough evidence is it? People said you are dead wrong, respectable people, how about you stfu about it already, you were wrong, admit it. Also, the reason i wanted the thread locked is - if logging off causes the cloak to drop instantly, then the issue which was brought up in the first post is irrelevant. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:43:00 - [100] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 15:42:24 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: Ryysa First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. No, it happens 100% of the cases, IF the person isnt agressed and logs off before decloaking and being locked. But I think someone has explained this to you already, hence why you want the thread locked. Nope, wrong. It does not happen 100% of the time, this is a very rare bug. If someone who is not aggressed jumps into you and logs, he will start emergency warp, while he is aligning for warp you can LOCK him and SCRAMBLE him except in a RARE case where you have a bug where it says "failed to target because target is already in warp" (or similar). If you get enough points on him, he will be scrambled and you will have 1-2 minutes to kill him, before his ship simply vanishes. Now please don't argue about this. And stop your retarded assumptions. If you keep saying that this is not true - I would like to ask some more people to post here and prove this guy wrong. Your entire assumption that it is true is based on ONE encounter with your ship, now ONE encounter is hardly enough evidence is it? People said you are dead wrong, respectable people, how about you stfu about it already, you were wrong, admit it. Also, the reason i wanted the thread locked is - if logging off causes the cloak to drop instantly, then the issue which was brought up in the first post is irrelevant. N.F.F. Recruitment
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:01:00 - [101] Originally by: Ryysa [10:49 <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble I assume it decloaks as soon as you log right? If so, this solves everything. It is fairly illogical - and I had not tested this before starting the thread. Thus, this thread is based on a false concept, and is irrelevant. This change by CCP will not increase or decrease logoff tactics, ships disappearing while logged off after being fired at is a completely separate problem. And I believe that it getting fixed is the next step towards addressing problems. However if my interpretation is incorrect, since if cloak time is 1 minute, and disappear time is 2 minutes(?). Then before you had 2 minutes to kill target(?). And now you have 1 minute to kill target(?). (It still appears after you log, just it has stayed in cloak for 1 minute already(?) What really needs testing is, does the ship decloak immediately after logoff or after the cloaking timer expires. Until that is tested 100%, any discussion on this matter is rather pointless =/ I'll point you to my post above, that tells you exactly what happens as tested on SiSi 2 days ago. It decloak you when you log off BUT you are not lockable until 1 min after jumping the gate (like when you undock from a station, says the target is invulnerable) and then the ship pops 1 min after logging. So it will only be vulnerable for 10-20sec at most. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:01:00 - [102] Originally by: Ryysa [10:49 <Oneiromancer> Your ship decloaks after you logged out and stays in the bubble I assume it decloaks as soon as you log right? If so, this solves everything. It is fairly illogical - and I had not tested this before starting the thread. Thus, this thread is based on a false concept, and is irrelevant. This change by CCP will not increase or decrease logoff tactics, ships disappearing while logged off after being fired at is a completely separate problem. And I believe that it getting fixed is the next step towards addressing problems. However if my interpretation is incorrect, since if cloak time is 1 minute, and disappear time is 2 minutes(?). Then before you had 2 minutes to kill target(?). And now you have 1 minute to kill target(?). (It still appears after you log, just it has stayed in cloak for 1 minute already(?) What really needs testing is, does the ship decloak immediately after logoff or after the cloaking timer expires. Until that is tested 100%, any discussion on this matter is rather pointless =/ I'll point you to my post above, that tells you exactly what happens as tested on SiSi 2 days ago. It decloak you when you log off BUT you are not lockable until 1 min after jumping the gate (like when you undock from a station, says the target is invulnerable) and then the ship pops 1 min after logging. So it will only be vulnerable for 10-20sec at most. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Trev Kachanov STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:16:00 - [103] is this the leet pwnz0r thread? am i late? FFS people I find your lack of faith disturbing
Trev Kachanov STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:16:00 - [104] is this the leet pwnz0r thread? am i late? FFS people I find your lack of faith disturbing
Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:33:00 - [105] hey hey just for some clarification please correct if wrong. logofski timeframe 00:00 Jump through the gate 00:10 *****s campzorr. this for a lark im offski 00:30 decloaks 00:31 primary, lock lock lock get agro timer, ** ! cant get lock :/ 01:00 ships start locking 01:03 i got lock, pew pew pew 01:10 ship vanishes. gate timer log timer could someone explain/place where the confusion is taking place with agro timers and emergency warp etc. Many thanks Mikal Drey
Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:33:00 - [106] hey hey just for some clarification please correct if wrong. logofski timeframe 00:00 Jump through the gate 00:10 *****s campzorr. this for a lark im offski 00:30 decloaks 00:31 primary, lock lock lock get agro timer, ** ! cant get lock :/ 01:00 ships start locking 01:03 i got lock, pew pew pew 01:10 ship vanishes. gate timer log timer could someone explain/place where the confusion is taking place with agro timers and emergency warp etc. Many thanks Mikal Drey
0raven0 Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:38:00 - [107] What would really suck is if you can log another character in on the same account fast enough within that 30 second cloak window so that your ship disappears before it ever decloaks. ------
0raven0 Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:38:00 - [108] What would really suck is if you can log another character in on the same account fast enough within that 30 second cloak window so that your ship disappears before it ever decloaks. ------
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:47:00 - [109] Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey just for some clarification please correct if wrong. logofski timeframe 00:00 Jump through the gate 00:10 *****s campzorr. this for a lark im offski 00:30 decloaks 00:31 primary, lock lock lock get agro timer, ** ! cant get lock :/ 01:00 ships start locking 01:03 i got lock, pew pew pew 01:10 ship vanishes. gate timer log timer could someone explain/place where the confusion is taking place with agro timers and emergency warp etc. Many thanks Mikal Drey This is how it will work now provided there are active bubbles, as far as I have understood. Possibly you will uncloak when you log. Before this patch, you would have an emergency warp (still not lockable) at time 0:10 in your example. I dont know how Ryysa could argue about this though, I was pretty sure the invulnerability when logging off was common knowledge. Maybe lots of pilots try to run away and logs after they are agressed, in which case they obviously dont emergency warp
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:50:00 - [110] Ok, enough of your bull****. I will post fraps in 10-15 minutes from my alt logging off and my main locking him when he is logged off so you STFU. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:53:00 - [111] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 20/03/2007 17:49:16 We are talking about something that we have yet to test. I reserve judgement until I can actually see players being able to logoff with success. Until then I applaude CCP for their effort in fixing this problem. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:54:00 - [112] Log off is one think, but how about when you jump thru gate and get cliend desync and disconect. This maybe fix 1st problem, but make 2nd one worse.
D'Jannek Amarr StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:56:00 - [113] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: Ryysa First of all, what you described is a bug. Plain and simple, it happens in about 5% of the cases. I had it happen to me also. However in the other 95% of the cases you can lock a logged off target just fine. No, it happens 100% of the cases, IF the person isnt agressed and logs off before decloaking and being locked. But I think someone has explained this to you already, hence why you want the thread locked. Not 100% of the time - there have been numerous occasions where I've been in a roaming gang, and something's jumped into us, logged, then we got points on it and it either died (hooray) or just disappeared after one minute. But this is kind of besides the point. What we can, I'm sure, agree on is that aggression after logging should trigger the 15 minute aggro timer as normal. Otherwise it's not going to make a whole lot of difference.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:58:00 - [114] Originally by: Ryysa Ok, enough of your bull****. I will post fraps in 10-15 minutes from my alt logging off and my main locking him when he is logged off so you STFU. You can lock someone who is logged off, no question about that. But you can NOT lock someone who is logged off before he emergency warps, unless he already is agressed. I have seen this personally many times when soloing in my sabre. Industrial jumps through gate into bubble, he loggs (disappears from local), his ship starts to align for emergency warp but its not possible to lock him even though it takes a long time for him to warp away. I am sure others in your corp/alliance has discovered this a long time ago, so you might want to check with them before posting any video (besides, you dont always see agression so a video would not prove anything).
Chequrself Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:03:00 - [115] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 00:08:04 From the patch notes: Quote: Logging off inside a warp disrupt bubble (mobile warp disrupt or interdictor bubble) no longer triggers an emergency warp. Now we all know what happens if someone who is not aggressed logs out. His ship disappears within a minute, no matter if he gets aggressed within that one minute. Iirc the cloaking time on a gate is 30 seconds-ish? Now imagine the following situation: 1. Interdictor bubble is up on a gate, hostile jumps in. Hostile does not have aggression timer. 2. Hostile logs off. Before, he would attempt to emergency warp immediately out of the bubble, breaking his cloak. And the people on the gate had one minute to kill him. Now he will remain cloaked for 30 seconds, because no warp will be initiated, even while he is logged off. And you will have only 30 seconds to kill his ship. Now, unless I missed something, jumping into a camp and logging has just become even more attractive than it was before. Discuss. Had it happen to me last night 5 mins before dt a neut raven jumps into a 0.0 system logs before he breaks cloak, he appears I get him scrambled and am happily shooting away when all of a sudden he just vanishes .... /me scratches head wtf just happened. Needless to say I was none too happy since I had him in half armour when he dissappeared. Bet ya he was faction fitted ... dammit /me unluckiest player in eve -----------------------------------------------------------------
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:03:00 - [116] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 18:00:57 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: Ryysa Ok, enough of your bull**. I will post fraps in 10-15 minutes from my alt logging off and my main locking him when he is logged off so you STFU. You can lock someone who is logged off, no question about that. But you can NOT lock someone who is logged off before he emergency warps, unless he already is agressed. I have seen this personally many times when soloing in my sabre. Industrial jumps through gate into bubble, he loggs (disappears from local), his ship starts to align for emergency warp but its not possible to lock him even though it takes a long time for him to warp away. I am sure others in your corp/alliance has discovered this a long time ago, so you might want to check with them before posting any video (besides, you dont always see agression so a video would not prove anything). Wrong, and this is exactly what i will prove you with fraps. Alt is waiting in sisi queue, #59 atm, as soon as he logs on, i will jump his dominix into my vagabond while he has NO aggression timer and show you EXACTLY what happens with fraps. Until then, please stop posting total bull**, i am tired of it. N.F.F. Recruitment
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:04:00 - [117] Originally by: D'Jannek Not 100% of the time - there have been numerous occasions where I've been in a roaming gang, and something's jumped into us, logged, then we got points on it and it either died (hooray) or just disappeared after one minute. But this is kind of besides the point. What we can, I'm sure, agree on is that aggression after logging should trigger the 15 minute aggro timer as normal. Otherwise it's not going to make a whole lot of difference. In my experience with an interdictor bubble they always become invulnerable and impossible to lock. Maybe it works differently without bubbles (I am used to 0.0 and almost always have a bubble of some kind). That would explain why Ryysa and I cant seem to agree on this.
Gaius Spectre Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:06:00 - [118] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 03:20:25 But i do care about a battleship/battlecruiser gaining god damn near invincimode. Didnt you fly a 10-12k Nanophoon/nightmare presumably until today?
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:07:00 - [119] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: D'Jannek Not 100% of the time - there have been numerous occasions where I've been in a roaming gang, and something's jumped into us, logged, then we got points on it and it either died (hooray) or just disappeared after one minute. But this is kind of besides the point. What we can, I'm sure, agree on is that aggression after logging should trigger the 15 minute aggro timer as normal. Otherwise it's not going to make a whole lot of difference. In my experience with an interdictor bubble they always become invulnerable and impossible to lock. Maybe it works differently without bubbles (I am used to 0.0 and almost always have a bubble of some kind). That would explain why Ryysa and I cant seem to agree on this. No, it works exactly the same with bubbles and without (well before the patch that forced you in it now). Just fyi i was FC of -V-/LV/KOS/CHIMP coalition, so stfu with lame hints of hinting at 0.0/empire crap. You are just wrong, period. You experienced a bug once or twice, and assume it's supposed to be that way - no it's not. I can't do it with interdictor now, since it obviously now prevents warp, but i will do it without interdictor in 0.0. Jezus are you retarded. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:08:00 - [120] Originally by: Gaius Spectre Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 03:20:25 But i do care about a battleship/battlecruiser gaining god damn near invincimode. Didnt you fly a 10-12k Nanophoon/nightmare presumably until today? What does have to do with anything? Jealous that i pwned your alliance much? How does it belong in this thread? stop flaming. N.F.F. Recruitment
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:09:00 - [121] Originally by: Gaius Spectre Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 03:20:25 But i do care about a battleship/battlecruiser gaining god damn near invincimode. Didnt you fly a 10-12k Nanophoon/nightmare presumably until today? Yes, but thats far from invincimode, unless ofcourse you consider the course of actions that pure took against us benchmark.. i can only laugh..
D'Jannek Amarr StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:10:00 - [122] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: D'Jannek Not 100% of the time - there have been numerous occasions where I've been in a roaming gang, and something's jumped into us, logged, then we got points on it and it either died (hooray) or just disappeared after one minute. But this is kind of besides the point. What we can, I'm sure, agree on is that aggression after logging should trigger the 15 minute aggro timer as normal. Otherwise it's not going to make a whole lot of difference. In my experience with an interdictor bubble they always become invulnerable and impossible to lock. Maybe it works differently without bubbles (I am used to 0.0 and almost always have a bubble of some kind). That would explain why Ryysa and I cant seem to agree on this. I'm fairly certain I recall it happening both with and without dictors; although my memory is far from perfect. I would suggest lag, but I guess that's pretty unlikely seeing as you're solo roaming. Regardless, it really is quite infuriating.
Gaius Spectre Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:11:00 - [123] Edited by: Gaius Spectre on 20/03/2007 18:09:17 J/K ryssa Good point though, gonna actually be alot tougher catching peeps. even with small ships like an AF where you may catch with an inty on a regualr log off, gonna be hard pressed to lay out the damage in time. Hope fully people sit there Pi$$ing themselves a little too long, thinkin, "can I make it?" before logging, gaining that few extra seconds.
Eamz Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:39:00 - [124] AT PRESENT (pre patch) 1. If you log off without being agressed by a player you stay in space for 1 minute. 2. If you log off with player agression you stay in space for 15 minutes. I believe this may be 2 minutes if you have been agressed by NPC's. 3. If you log and are agressed after you have logged you will disappear after 1 minute regardless. During this minute you can be scrambled and shot at and will not warp until the minute is up at which point you disappear. Thats just to clear things up for some people. To the OP - Im not sure, i think devspeak for "no longer triggers an emergency warp" may actually mean they will not attempt to warp away and will therefore not disappear from space. If this ISNT the case, and what you are suggesting is true, logging inside a bubble within a few seconds of noticing it on jump in will mean that you will almost certainly survive. The decloak period is 1 minute, the disappear timer is 1 minute. Locks and activation take at least even 5 seconds on a small ship, since the "decloaking" process takes a few seconds. If it is as you says, it is rediculous, but if ships remain in space if they in bubble then we are going in the right direction.
Eamz Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:39:00 - [125] AT PRESENT (pre patch) 1. If you log off without being agressed by a player you stay in space for 1 minute. 2. If you log off with player agression you stay in space for 15 minutes. I believe this may be 2 minutes if you have been agressed by NPC's. 3. If you log and are agressed after you have logged you will disappear after 1 minute regardless. During this minute you can be scrambled and shot at and will not warp until the minute is up at which point you disappear. Thats just to clear things up for some people. To the OP - Im not sure, i think devspeak for "no longer triggers an emergency warp" may actually mean they will not attempt to warp away and will therefore not disappear from space. If this ISNT the case, and what you are suggesting is true, logging inside a bubble within a few seconds of noticing it on jump in will mean that you will almost certainly survive. The decloak period is 1 minute, the disappear timer is 1 minute. Locks and activation take at least even 5 seconds on a small ship, since the "decloaking" process takes a few seconds. If it is as you says, it is rediculous, but if ships remain in space if they in bubble then we are going in the right direction.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:44:00 - [126] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 18:41:57 This post is directed to that Magnus guy. Ok, here is the proof. Now, please post some of your own, or kindly get out from my thread. Everything is exactly how I said, and you can clearly see it from that video. I wonder what excuse you will come up with next? Unless you got proof to back it up, please don't even bother. Nublet. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:44:00 - [127] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 18:41:57 This post is directed to that Magnus guy. Ok, here is the proof. Now, please post some of your own, or kindly get out from my thread. Everything is exactly how I said, and you can clearly see it from that video. I wonder what excuse you will come up with next? Unless you got proof to back it up, please don't even bother. Nublet. N.F.F. Recruitment
M00dy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:52:00 - [128] OMGWTFPWNED! Pew Pew
M00dy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:52:00 - [129] OMGWTFPWNED! Pew Pew
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:32:00 - [130] Lol, you make a video for a feature thats supposed to be fixed, and your video indeed shows that it is fixed. I am sure CCP will like that video, but it hardly proves anything about EVE pre-patch, does it? I know for a fact that you could not lock and agress people who jumped into a bubble and logged, because it has happened to me (and lots of others) many times. I have even cough logged off with a faction fitted raven to do the same, and that was inside a bubble with frigs all around. But I guess the 1000 scan resolution frigs somehow failed to lock my non-nano fitted raven in time for some other mysterious reason. And if you Ryysa did ask around, I am 100% sure that others has experienced the same as I have (some in this thread has also experienced this). Anyway, I am tired of this pointless debate. Its nice that CCP has fixed the problem, lets leave it at that.
Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:37:00 - [131] logofski timer from ryysa's video 00:06 jump in 00:18 logofski 00:20 decloak 00:25 lock 01:18 ninja vanish I still have a few unanswered questions. 1) is there a difference between 0.0 and empire for the agro timer etc. 2) decloak - was it movement triggered or automatic 3) 1 min from logofski to vanish. is this always the case 4) did the ship stay in space somewhere else or was it totally logged 5) from the alt perspective did he get agro timer ? 6) when he logs back in where does he appear. 7) i thought this was all about logging in a bubble ? but there was no bubble on the video. does this make a difference ? Ryysa considering you managed to get him into armor before the vanishing trick a gang/camp would have almost certainly popped him. did your alt make no actions before logging and if so would that have made a difference ?
Doctor Octagon Amarr Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:43:00 - [132] Its ben a long time since i saw such trolling in other peoples threads. Discuss the matter that Ryysa has taken up. I would very much like to have confirmed that what concerns Ryysa is actually the truth. I could care less about you extreme ability as the l33t skills with a sabre. Not too mention if pirates are generally the worst pvpers in the game. If Ryysa is right there is still a major logging issue in 0,0. I guess its better than it was, but the problem still remains and will be exploited to the limit.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:52:00 - [133] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Hllaxiu How long is the cloak timer at a gate? Isn't it longer than 30 seconds? Like, a minute or two? 30 seconds is the cloak time, 1 minute is the logoff timer. So you have 30 seconds to kill the ship at the gate. This means that anything but a giant blob is generally screwed with regards to killing larger ships, and even a large blob might have difficulty killing a freighter. I see you are all conveniently forgetting that most ofthen than not the target will require those 30 seconds to load the system after jumping in, so you have a good chanche to aggro him even before he logoff.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:10:00 - [134] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Nalar Marnith Alright, so what you wanted was for people to agree with you, not discuss. There's no need to have a go at anyone who may not have a complete understanding of the mechanic. My apologies for misunderstanding the mechanic there. Incorrect - I was merely slightly annoyed by people posting things that they have made up themselves, instead of offering valid points onto the subject. Quote: I've never logged off in a bubble, nor had it happen to me so I'm not 100% on the mechanic. That's why you test things. Quote: Also, you're basing all this on an assumption yourself. It may be possible that your ship will try to warp when in a bubble, but be jammed the same way it would've if you'd had a point. Why would it? Jump into a bubble then try to press the warp button while cloaked. You will get a message about warp disruption zone bleh bleh, and you won't uncloak. So why would logging off be any different? Originally by: Humpalot They should make it so logoff drops the after-jump cloak (essentially the logoff initiates emergency warp out which is doing an "action" thus dropping the cloak and then the warp drive goes kaput as it tries to engage and finds itself in a bubble). Problem solved... No, they actually should just make it so that if you get aggressed while logged off you get the 15 minute timer, and make it so that if you log within a pos bubble you don't warp away from it. Curious, I have seen tons of threads lamenting that people do emergency warp indipendently from the number of points they have gotten, then you now say you can't warp if scrambled. Something has changed here in the last week? Your last point about aggroing logged off people: very nice, so we can at least stop getting peole lamenting aggro by shooting wreck and start lamenting aggro by shothing them after logging off, a clear improvement. At that poin we can delete all the therad lamenting the titan kills using "lame" tactics, as they will easily killed using this tactic.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:52:00 - [135] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 20:50:19 Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Lol, you make a video for a feature thats supposed to be fixed, and your video indeed shows that it is fixed. I am sure CCP will like that video, but it hardly proves anything about EVE pre-patch, does it? It was fixed over 1 year ago. Quote: I know for a fact that you could not lock and agress people who jumped into a bubble and logged, because it has happened to me (and lots of others) many times. I have even cough logged off with a faction fitted raven to do the same, and that was inside a bubble with frigs all around. But I guess the 1000 scan resolution frigs somehow failed to lock my non-nano fitted raven in time for some other mysterious reason. No, you retard, your raven just tanked the frigs until it disappeared. As shown in my video. You don't know anything for a fact, you are talking about a bug that got "fixed" over a year ago (still occurs in about 5% of cases). There is no FACTS at all in your ignorant dumb speech. The facts are in my video, plain and simple. You are just talking ** with no proof, and as BoB put it. PROOF OR STFU. Quote: And if you Ryysa did ask around, I am 100% sure that others has experienced the same as I have (some in this thread has also experienced this). I have experienced it, in about 5% of the cases. Quote:** Anyway, I am tired of this pointless debate. Its nice that CCP has fixed the problem, lets leave it at that. Sigh. Summary: 1. You bring up something completely wrong. 2. I show you a video of exactly how it is wrong. 3. You claim that what you said is a fact, even though the video clearly depicts otherwise. 4. You offer no proof. Also, in the entire process you depict me as "noob empire camper" even though I led members of your alliance in fleets. You boast about killboard stats, which are dwarfed by mine. My conclusion from this is simple. Sir, you are retarded. Have a nice day =) P.S. You also admitted to logging off to save your ship. Nice - I am sure this depicts your corporation in good light N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:58:00 - [136] Edited by: Ryysa on 20/03/2007 20:56:26 Originally by: Mikal Drey logofski timer from ryysa's video 00:06 jump in 00:18 logofski 00:20 decloak 00:25 lock 01:18 ninja vanish I still have a few unanswered questions. 1) is there a difference between 0.0 and empire for the agro timer etc. No. Quote: 2) decloak - was it movement triggered or automatic The ship was not in bubble - didn't have interdictor alt to test with - he decloaked auto because of initiating emergency warp after logging. Quote: 3) 1 min from logofski to vanish. is this always the case If target does not currently have pvp timer - yes. Quote: 4) did the ship stay in space somewhere else or was it totally logged Totally logged. Quote: 5) from the alt perspective did he get agro timer ? Nope. Quote: 6) when he logs back in where does he appear. Hard one. But i can solve it by logging in and telling you if you like. Quote: 7) i thought this was all about logging in a bubble ? but there was no bubble on the video. does this make a difference ? Yes, the video was shown to prove a retarded troll wrong who kept trolling my post. Quote: Ryysa considering you managed to get him into armor before the vanishing trick a gang/camp would have almost certainly popped him. did your alt make no actions before logging and if so would that have made a difference ? You can't do any actions before logging, you can't activate anything when you are cloaked. Dominix setup was like this: 2x heavy nos, 4x med nos injector, scram, web, 2x dampener 2x lar II, eanm II, 3x active hardener II (offline), dcu II Now if i had a plate and 2x eanm II, i'd have more there. Btw, dominixes shieldtank, so the fact that i had him slightly into armor when he disappeared doesn't mean anything. My vaga was also fitted for gank, it was doing about 350 dps at 0km. Since he has resists on armor, i probably got away like 20% of his hitpoint tops, so you'd need 1.5k+ dps to take him down. Also, please re-read some posts, I don't give a f... about gate camps. Imagine that dominix jumped into my roaming gang with dictor, couple ceptors, couple fast hacs. Outcome is just the same. And if you are telling me "but bring more people" then you need a head check. N.F.F. Recruitment
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 - [137] Nice but it has nothing to do with the change to bubbles, here is one taken on SiSi a min ago showing what happens when someone logs inside a bubble. Bubble Sorry about the bad image quality. So can people start believing what I say now? :) ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Eamz Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:57:00 - [138] in supporting ryysa i have never known a ship that is logged to have warped off if i have it scrambled. NEVER. and just in the last month must have had a dozen people log off on jump in.
Sacul Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:17:00 - [139] Dont let the trolls get u Ryysa! excellent explanation and well from the top of my head i dunno if u are right, still very well explained. I learned stuff DrunkZ with GunZ 4-ever!
Snapp Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:25:00 - [140] Originally by: Ryysa The ship was not in bubble uhmm so like what was the result of the ship being caught in the bubble at the gate and logging off? cuase I realy do mean to sound like a *****, WHEN TEH F! is a privateer gonna be using Warp Disruption Bubbles and or Dctor Sphere's? Noob I so came to party! Founding member of the "Gonna Gank a CareBear Alliance"
Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:41:00 - [141] Originally by: Hoshi Nice but it has nothing to do with the change to bubbles, here is one taken on SiSi a min ago showing what happens when someone logs inside a bubble. Bubble Sorry about the bad image quality. So can people start believing what I say now? :) now im seeing 2 different things :/ is SISI different to tq behaviour (they are both currently rnning the same version) and did the bubble make the difference to being totally invulnerable ? either way my brain is slowly getting squished
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 06:16:00 - [142] Just experienced my first logoffski post-patch. Enemy Assault Frigate jumped out of system as I did. I reapproached gate quickly and dropped an interdiction probe. About five seconds later he logged off and immediately appeared in space, about 5km within the sphere of interdiction. Then for another twenty to thirty seconds, I was unable to get a target lock counter on him. I was then able to lock 1 or 2s lock time with Sig Analysis V on the Eris. The time that elapsed from the when I locked until the time he completely vanished from space was only 7 seconds. This means that counting lock time, he was viable in space for only 10s or so. Given the resists of Assault Frigates, it would take a rather large fleet with extremely fast locking time to kill one before it can disappear now. And no, it did not warp, it vanished into thin air completely off of scanners. Looks like loggers got a bonus in this patch.
Jenn Atreides	Posted - 2007.03.21 06:49:00 - [143] I have tested this in the past with my accounts. I was told when in war that BoB keeps another version of the client up and at the log in character screen. With alt choosen and that they will simply log in other alt and the main will promptly dissappear. We heard lots of BoBsploit things during the war. All as it turns out were unfounded, but anyway I took 2 of my accounts to the same spot in space and tried this. I set up the second account and had the select character screen up I then logged out the main and promptly logged in the alt. The I went to my other account and locked my ship that was logged out and I held it in warp scram for 15 minutes while I did some empire trading with the alt of that account logged in. I thenm logged out the alt and logged back in the main and guess what. Yeah I was still sitting there warp scrambled by my other account. I then tried to see if I could do this from a cloaked perspective so I fitted my ship with a cloak, and activated the cloak and logged out and logged in the alt. Then as soon as my ship started to align for emergency warp it uncloaked. So I locked it and held it in place for a period of time. So here is the deal, it is all about gate camps, people don't very often dc while jumping, that is an intentional manuver promoted by some fleet commanders and alliances. Again the point is to by pass the gate camp on the other side of the gate or to crash the node. So if this works as I envision it it will simply be that the ship or ships jump through the gate and then log while jumping. The ship then should pop out on the other side of the gate and sit in the bubble. It will (should) immediately uncloak as it should immediately start to align for emergency warp. Then the AI should notice that it is in a bubble and cancel the emergency warp thus allowing the snipers to simply shoot at it as it should be stuck there for as long as the bubble holds it in place. I will be testing this as soon as I get off work and get home. But thats how I see it happening. If this has been tested and the findings posted then excuse me. I just got bored with reading all the BS over the first 3 pages to continue to the end. Jenn
Jenn Atreides	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:01:00 - [144] Originally by: Eamz in supporting ryysa i have never known a ship that is logged to have warped off if i have it scrambled. NEVER. and just in the last month must have had a dozen people log off on jump in. You guys just are not listening. Rysaa I respect what your saying but these people that have been exploiting the log off mechanism are not doing it after the the new system screen loads they do it right after the jumping text appears in the previous system. And yes if it is done that way you cannot not lock them before they warp off because they are already in emergency warp. Then they log in after a few minutes and log out and in and out and then they are past your camp. This would (should) still work in empire. CCP needs to fix this by disallowing log off during session changes. As I said statistically speaking almost never is there a DC during jumps. The dc's happen after jumps or as you are arriving to a gate. But almost never during a jump so 99 percent of all the anticipated petitions would just be whinners wanting their ships back cause their exploit failed them. I have seen it dozens of times with the goons and RA jumping around. It is the prefered way to amass hundreds of kids into a system avoiding gate camps. Try it out. If the gate is not bubbled ie: (in empire) it makes no difference but if it is bubbled (0.0) it should prevent them from going into emergency warp thus making them targetable. Jenn
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:40:00 - [145] Edited by: Ryysa on 21/03/2007 07:40:29 Originally by: Snapp Originally by: Ryysa The ship was not in bubble uhmm so like what was the result of the ship being caught in the bubble at the gate and logging off? cuase I realy do mean to sound like a *****, WHEN TEH F! is a privateer gonna be using Warp Disruption Bubbles and or Dctor Sphere's? Noob Dude, you are not worth my time. Read the thread, read why the video is there. You just made yourself look like a complete moron. Btw, this is you having 74 kills in the last 8 months. And this is me having 1123 kills in the last 2.5 months. Who is the noob now? Go back to your sandbox angry little kid. Now on topic. Thanks for the current situation Hoshi. Well, i'd like to say then the logoff is completely broken. The cloak drops, but you can't lock. So that's the same as the cloak staying up. Before, if they logged out of a bubble you could at least lock them as they initiated emergency warp. Ok, so... With a bubble, as someone else did it here before, I'll do an example of how it currently is, this is not exactly from hoshi's video, but just to give people an idea how it is right now. [00:00] Character 1 Jumps in. [00:02] Character 2 Launches Interdictor Sphere [00:05] Character 1 Logs off and decloaks. [01:00] Character 1 Becomes Lockable by Character 2. [01:05] Character 1 Disappears. Character 1 has 5 seconds to kill Character 2. And this is how it was before patch: [00:00] Character 1 Jumps in. [00:02] Character 2 Launches Interdictor Sphere [00:05] Character 1 Logs off and decloaks, starts to attempt emergency warp. [00:05] Character 1 Becomes Lockable by Character 2. [01:05] Character 1 Disappears. Character 1 has 1 minute to kill Character 2. Ok, so basically, now it is completely pointless to use dictor bubbles in 0.0. Because anyone who jumps into your dictor and is not aggressed can just log, and he will be safe 95% of the time if he logs really fast. This is a horrible exploit, I hope CCP come up with a fix /soon/. N.F.F. Recruitment
Captain Stephanie	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:53:00 - [146] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 21/03/2007 07:40:29 Originally by: Snapp Originally by: Ryysa The ship was not in bubble uhmm so like what was the result of the ship being caught in the bubble at the gate and logging off? cuase I realy do mean to sound like a *****, WHEN TEH F! is a privateer gonna be using Warp Disruption Bubbles and or Dctor Sphere's? Noob Dude, you are not worth my time. Read the thread, read why the video is there. You just made yourself look like a complete moron. Btw, this is you having 74 kills in the last 8 months. And this is me having 1123 kills in the last 2.5 months. Who is the noob now? Go back to your sandbox angry little kid. Now on topic. Thanks for the current situation Hoshi. Well, i'd like to say then the logoff is completely broken. The cloak drops, but you can't lock. So that's the same as the cloak staying up. Before, if they logged out of a bubble you could at least lock them as they initiated emergency warp. Ok, so... With a bubble, as someone else did it here before, I'll do an example of how it currently is, this is not exactly from hoshi's video, but just to give people an idea how it is right now. [00:00] Character 1 Jumps in. [00:02] Character 2 Launches Interdictor Sphere [00:05] Character 1 Logs off and decloaks. [01:00] Character 1 Becomes Lockable by Character 2. [01:05] Character 1 Disappears. Character 1 has 5 seconds to kill Character 2. And this is how it was before patch: [00:00] Character 1 Jumps in. [00:02] Character 2 Launches Interdictor Sphere [00:05] Character 1 Logs off and decloaks, starts to attempt emergency warp. [00:05] Character 1 Becomes Lockable by Character 2. [01:05] Character 1 Disappears. Character 1 has 1 minute to kill Character 2. Ok, so basically, now it is completely pointless to use dictor bubbles in 0.0. Because anyone who jumps into your dictor and is not aggressed can just log, and he will be safe 95% of the time if he logs really fast. This is a horrible exploit, I hope CCP come up with a fix /soon/. Rysaa mate, Did you not read what Jenn Atriedes wrote, They are not logging off after they jump in but before they actually load in system, therefore they cannot not be held by the dictor bubble because dictor bubbles do not effect anyone who initiates warp before the bubble is put up. They log out in system a after pressing the jump button to go to system b. But before they actually jump out of system a. So when they7 log back in they are in system b. Try it with a anchored bubble and see how it works. I bet Jenn is right. Stepanie
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:56:00 - [147] Edited by: Ryysa on 21/03/2007 07:55:55 You don't understand, look at Hoshi's video. Stop posting random stuff, just look at the video. It doesn't matter when you log, if the bubble is up, you won't emergency warp anymore, and you won't be lockable. Doesn't matter when you log. My video has nothing to do with the current situation, it was just to prove someone wrong. It doesn't matter when they log, and because of lags and delays, dictor bubble will always be up because dictor will see gate activation, so when server actually registers logout, it will be in bubble. Unless your dictor's reflexes are completely ridiculous. Here is the video you should look at before posting, please do. N.F.F. Recruitment
putukas Amarr Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.21 08:35:00 - [148] So as i understand from this thread they actually improved logoffski tactics. LOL Is CCP even testing the features they are implementing? Watching that bubble video it seems its even safer to logoff and avoiding 100% shiploss then before.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.21 08:44:00 - [149] Originally by: putukas So as i understand from this thread they actually improved logoffski tactics. LOL Is CCP even testing the features they are implementing? Watching that bubble video it seems its even safer to logoff and avoiding 100% shiploss then before. They made bubbles help the victim instead of the agressor.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:09:00 - [150] Originally by: Selnix Just experienced my first logoffski post-patch. Enemy Assault Frigate jumped out of system as I did. I reapproached gate quickly and dropped an interdiction probe. About five seconds later he logged off and immediately appeared in space, about 5km within the sphere of interdiction. Then for another twenty to thirty seconds, I was unable to get a target lock counter on him. I was then able to lock 1 or 2s lock time with Sig Analysis V on the Eris. The time that elapsed from the when I locked until the time he completely vanished from space was only 7 seconds. This means that counting lock time, he was viable in space for only 10s or so. Given the resists of Assault Frigates, it would take a rather large fleet with extremely fast locking time to kill one before it can disappear now. And no, it did not warp, it vanished into thin air completely off of scanners. Looks like loggers got a bonus in this patch. This sounds pretty much like before, except before you emergency warped. So I guess CCP fixed exactly what they said they would fix (the emergency warp), but logging off is still pretty safe. And Ryysa, stop with the name calling and smack. Have it ever occured to you that maybe you are wrong and others are correct?
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:17:00 - [151] Edited by: Ryysa on 21/03/2007 11:21:36 ? I have been correct on every accord so far. Also, before the patch when target emergency warped, target was lockable. Even when emergency warping from bubble. There have been at least 4-5 people stating that in this thread. And if this was not the case, it was not the case in maybe 5% of the cases where it was bugged. If you don't have the brain capacity to realize that, I feel sorry for you. Also, about smack, the FIRST thing you did when coming to this thread is smack me for my alliance ticker, while you had no idea that I was actually FCing for members of your alliance a while back. Pretty sad. Stfu already, I don't want you posting your crap in my thread. I want people to discuss this issue. Do I really have to e-mail mods and ask them to clean the thread because of your desperate need for attention? Seriously I can't be arsed with you anymore, stop trolling my thread, go seek attention somewhere else. Or if you like we can do a 1v1 on tranquility, and settle this ingame. Pick non-capital shiptype. Either way, stop posting crap here, it's getting really old. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:27:00 - [152] I'm pretty sure your jump in cloak is a minute long, and that the session change is ~30 seconds. As well as the above, the standard timers are: 1) No aggro timer, disappear after 1 minute. 2) NPC aggro timer, disappear after 2 minutes. 3) PVP aggro timer, diappear after 15 minutes. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Chewan Mesa Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:28:00 - [153] So lemme see, I hope I got it right, if not, dont spank me Ryysa :) For CCP to now 'properly' finish their fix for logoffski, they would have to either make ships that log off in a bubble lockable right from the second they logoff and decloak, to avoid someone logging, being visible but not lockable, and vanishing shortly after being locked. Or, 2nd option would be to keep the invulni/cloaking time after logging off, however increasing the time until someone disappears by maybe another minute, so someone who jumps in and logs off is still invulnerable for about 30 seconds, however he doesnt disappear right way then but stays in space for another minute so he is killable. This also means that someone CTDing has a chance to get back online within 30secs and fight.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:30:00 - [154] As far as I can see, everyone that cried on the forums about log off tactics got what they wanted. NO EMERGENCY WARP FROM WARP BUBBLES. Your not going to get 'free' kills, too many people dont want to lose their ships and clones for this to happen. Sorry... Now you got what you wanted...now you want more? Tell ya what....You have my premission to make up as many 'kill mails' you feel you need to compensate for this unjustice CCP has given you. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:41:00 - [155] Edited by: Ryysa on 21/03/2007 11:50:25 Originally by: Hoshi Maybe it's a subtle boost to smartbombs, they now want every camp to include a smartbomb ship to kill all those logging frigates etc :) I thought about it recently :) And Chewan, I believe you got it right. The only fix that is really needed right now, is that if you get aggressed while logged off and you are not currently on your 15 minute timer, you get a 15 minute timer, but that opens a whole new can of worms. Anyhow. Proposed changes from my perspective. 1. Make ship instantly decloak and become lockable if it logs after jumping into bubble. 2. Make ship which is currently not on a PvP aggro timer, receive a 15 minute timer if he is aggressed while he is already logged off. 3. Make ship without aggro timer disappear from space within 20 seconds. 4. Make ship which logs out in POS forcefield not leave it after logging, just like with an interdictor bubble. Discuss. N.F.F. Recruitment
IVAN X	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:50:00 - [156] Originally by: Kuma Korosu So now if I warp/jump into a gate camp and I get disconnected, I'm basically dead, right? **** Happens :)
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:55:00 - [157] Originally by: IVAN X Originally by: Kuma Korosu So now if I warp/jump into a gate camp and I get disconnected, I'm basically dead, right? **** Happens :) Hardly. It's quite the opposite, if you jump into a gate camp and get disconnected you will almost 100% survive. N.F.F. Recruitment
M00dy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.03.21 13:44:00 - [158] Most likely CCP intended for the logging ships to be lockable the whole time. Hopefully they'll fix this. Pew Pew
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 13:48:00 - [159] yup, guess so. N.F.F. Recruitment
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.21 14:03:00 - [160] There is at least one huge improvement and that is what happens if you still got the bubble up when he logs back in. You used to be able by repeated login/logout get completely free of the bubble can continue on, that is no longer possible. And it won't be possible to login and check if they are gone because you will get aggro long before you see if they are there or not. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.03.21 14:09:00 - [161] Just a point TO the ones critcising Ryysa juts because its a privateers. I crossed with her/him9 really don't know) several times, and ALL of them were in 0.0. Even had a farily long chat while I was running megacitye in a rifter while being accidentaly pursued by her nanophoon for 11 jumps in direction of the new regions. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.03.21 14:11:00 - [162] But doesn't this recreate the problem with login traps? Logout in your own bubble > leave cov ops or something > mass login when a hostile arrives, appearing in the same place you logged out in... ? -------------------------------------------- Join Now
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 14:13:00 - [163] Originally by: M00dy Most likely CCP intended for the logging ships to be lockable the whole time. Hopefully they'll fix this. Dont hold your breath....In the players guide, the original one. It says "If you find your self, above your head, simply log off." Logging off to save a ship or clone has always been part of the game. Sure all these wet threads here have changed that tactic, to make it harder to survive a log off. But they (CCP) wont make it easy for you to get a free kill on a non-pvp player. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.21 14:18:00 - [164] Originally by: Hoshi There is at least one huge improvement and that is what happens if you still got the bubble up when he logs back in. You used to be able by repeated login/logout get completely free of the bubble can continue on, that is no longer possible. And it won't be possible to login and check if they are gone because you will get aggro long before you see if they are there or not. Well i wouldn't call it an improvement, since you can just use an alt to see if your logged off main is still being camped.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:51:00 - [165] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Just a point TO the ones critcising Ryysa juts because its a privateers. I crossed with her/him9 really don't know) several times, and ALL of them were in 0.0. Even had a farily long chat while I was running megacitye in a rifter while being accidentaly pursued by her nanophoon for 11 jumps in direction of the new regions. haha, damn that rifter had megacyte, actually i was just heading to the closest blob on the map to kill people, and you were heading the same way for a while :) Originally by: Hoshi There is at least one huge improvement and that is what happens if you still got the bubble up when he logs back in. You used to be able by repeated login/logout get completely free of the bubble can continue on, that is no longer possible. Wrong, when he logs in he appears 1mil km from where he logged, at least that's what happened to my alt when i tested it a bit ago... It could use some more testing though, I just did one attempt. Originally by: Sable Schroedinger But doesn't this recreate the problem with login traps? Logout in your own bubble > leave cov ops or something > mass login when a hostile arrives, appearing in the same place you logged out in... ? You log back in 1mil km from the bubble where you disappeared afaik. Also, as far as i know, when you log in you always appear 1mil km from the place you logged out at. I remember camping someone who logged off at the spot where they disappeared in space as we were shooting them. When they logged back in, they were on a slightly different spot, within 1mil km (on scanner). Originally by: Roshan longshot Dont hold your breath....In the players guide, the original one. It says "If you find your self, above your head, simply log off." I can't believe you are spinning a marketing sentence so badly, to justify yourself using borderline exploits. Quote: Logging off to save a ship or clone has always been part of the game. Sure all these wet threads here have changed that tactic, to make it harder to survive a log off. But they (CCP) wont make it easy for you to get a free kill on a non-pvp player. It has nothing to do with that. If you screwed up you deserve to die. And you know what? The people who log actually know something about pvp, since they know how the pvp timer works. The reason CCP doesn't want to change this that much is because of people getting legitimate disconnects getting shafted. Legitimate disconnects are an exception rather the norm these days though. Sorry, I just have to say it. Maybe you would like to go play WoW and drift away in carebearland? Or just stay in hisec? If you are not a pvp player, just use a scout and don't be "pvped" when you don't want to. 0.0 is based on pvp, I wonder how you are going to cry when some pvp entity blows up your POS. "Help i'm being pvped, i can't deal with it, how do i log off my pos?". Please don't bother discussing the ethics of logoff tactics, I am quite sure the majority of the eve player base agrees that logoff tactics are a borderline exploit and generally not a decent thing to do. Also it has been discussed to death. Stay on topic please. N.F.F. Recruitment
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:52:00 - [166] oh hi there mr.thread --- [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy
RaWBLooD	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:34:00 - [167] how will the people that ACTUALLY lose connection be helped by your proposal? since there is no way of proving it, they get screwed over. So in the end, not everyone is gonna buy a new comp and a better connection just to reduce chances of disconnecting.
Snapp Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.21 19:18:00 - [168] Edited by: Snapp on 21/03/2007 19:17:39 Originally by: Ryysa Dude, you are not worth my time. Read the thread, read why the video is there. You just made yourself look like a complete moron. Btw, this is you having 74 kills in the last 8 months. And this is me having 1123 kills in the last 2.5 months. Who is the noob now? Go back to your sandbox angry little kid. first lets start with, I didn't come here to play who's got more kills etc. I was pointing out that what was being questioned was the use of uhmm, bubbles. wich you repeatedly have said you were not using. (cant watch any video @ work, wich is where i have to access these fora due to security issues at my own residence) however seeing as we want to play the who's the l33test killer. your killboards are very shiny, and show many shuttle and pods as being "kils" although i wont hesitate to shoot one, I do tend to shoot at things that shoot back. npcr's and empire nubs trying to run hardly factor into that, I also like to post all of my losses. now it is very important to actualy chose the proper killboards when doing such things i would suggest this as a more acurate depiction of my activities. seems in my very part time (maybe 2 hours or so a week when i am active I managed to kill 144 objects 39 of wich are voided as non kills for a total of 103 for the loss of a Vagabond and a BS of somekind? according to your all powerfull self your kills are aprox 480 for a loss of 2 how many were actual combat? I wonder how high I could get my own kills if i quit my job, and only shot at npcr's and haulers? oh and unmanned shuttles and uhmm I am going to assume auto piloting pods. subjectivity is a neeto thing. I so came to party! Founding member of the "Gonna Gank a CareBear Alliance"
Jenn Atreides	Posted - 2007.03.21 19:56:00 - [169] After some extensive testing today my conclusions are: Logging in system a after activating the jum p gate will not put you into system b ( that is a change ) Logging at a gate with a bubble doews not emergency warp you. if you have no agression timer you simply vanish but you are lockable for a few ( 5-6) seconds. relogging in will turn you on right where you logged out (in the middle of the bubble) Logging out at a gate in a bubble while agressed leaves you at the gate for the duration of the agro timer, there is no invunerablilty, you face your doom, Logging back in after logging out if not agressed but you get shot after log out but before you blink off will give you agression timer and you will not leave for the duration of the agrro timer. Draw your own conclusions
Chewan Mesa Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.21 20:12:00 - [170] Originally by: RaWBLooD how will the people that ACTUALLY lose connection be helped by your proposal? since there is no way of proving it, they get screwed over. So in the end, not everyone is gonna buy a new comp and a better connection just to reduce chances of disconnecting. If you disconnect on jump-in you stay cloaked/invulnerable for about 30 seconds right now. Should it 'only' be a CTD, you can log back in in time to mwd or fight. What needs to take longer is the time you vanish, since it cant be right taht you disappear only seconds after you are lockable.
Prophet Jurah Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.21 20:58:00 - [171] Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: M00dy Most likely CCP intended for the logging ships to be lockable the whole time. Hopefully they'll fix this. Dont hold your breath....In the players guide, the original one. It says "If you find your self, above your head, simply log off." Logging off to save a ship or clone has always been part of the game. Sure all these wet threads here have changed that tactic, to make it harder to survive a log off. But they (CCP) wont make it easy for you to get a free kill on a non-pvp player. I don't have my manual anymore, but i don't remember it saying that. I won't believe it untill you provide a scan.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:50:00 - [172] Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 02:51:19 Originally by: RaWBLooD how will the people that ACTUALLY lose connection be helped by your proposal? since there is no way of proving it, they get screwed over. So in the end, not everyone is gonna buy a new comp and a better connection just to reduce chances of disconnecting. Look at it this way, disconnecting when jumping into a bubble happens very rarely. I'd say it happens maybe 1 out of 100 times. You can always try to petition it... The rest of the time it's someone ctrl+q-ing their client. If you disconnect, tough luck, in most games you die, in eve dying just hurts more. All I can say, it's your own fault for having crap connection/crap computer/crap whatever. Even if you can't do anything about it - it's still the fault of the client, not of CCP and not the fault of other players. Dunno if you understand what I mean... Imo EvE service is fairly stable, and the number of random disconnects is very low. If it's going down, the entire server goes down. I haven't had a random crash or CTD for ages now. Originally by: Snapp Rambling 1. Learn to write coherent sentences within coherent paragraphs. 2. Nice of you to assume I am subjective while saying "you only gank shuttles and pods". Well ofcourse I kill pods, when I kill a ship, what comes out of it? Thin air? Idiot. 3. Go troll somewhere else, I don't need your useless trolling here. With every post you make yourself look more like a desperate retard carving for attention. 4. Out of my 2 years playing eve I have pvped 1.8 years in 0.0, I have led fleets of 100 people in 0.0, and regular gangs. Just GTFO ok ? You don't know anything. 5. Expect some of our gangs in tribute as soon as you lose to BoB. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:53:00 - [173] Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 02:54:20 Originally by: Chewan Mesa If you disconnect on jump-in you stay cloaked/invulnerable for about 30 seconds right now. Should it 'only' be a CTD, you can log back in in time to mwd or fight. What needs to take longer is the time you vanish, since it cant be right taht you disappear only seconds after you are lockable. 1. You stay cloaked for 1 minute, you disappear also after 1 minute. 2. The problem with the disappearance is the simple fact that if you make the timer too long, then people logging out in space or at POS legitimately will be probed down and ganked when they don't have aggro timer. Originally by: Jenn Atreides After some extensive testing today my conclusions are: Logging in system a after activating the jum p gate will not put you into system b ( that is a change ) Aha, you still emergency warp in system A though, correct? You don't just disappear midjump? Quote: Logging at a gate with a bubble doews not emergency warp you. if you have no agression timer you simply vanish but you are lockable for a few ( 5-6) seconds. reloggig in will turn you on right where you logged out (in the middle of the bubble) Are you 100% sure on this? I need to do more tries with this, got dictor alt avail again, so will try tonight. Quote: Logging out at a gate in a bubble while agressed leaves you at the gate for the duration of the agro timer, there is no invunerablilty, you face your doom Yep, that's known :) Quote: Logging back in after logging out if not agressed but you get shot after log out but before you blink off will give you agression timer and you will not leave for the duration of the agrro timer. Not sure what "blink" means, i suppose disappearing from local? Yes that is logical then. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ryoma Sakamoto	Posted - 2007.03.22 03:31:00 - [174] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 02:56:48 All I can say, it's your own fault for having crap connection/crap computer/crap whatever. Even if you can't do anything about it - it's still the fault of the client, not of CCP and not the fault of other players. Are you seriously saying that it's the client's fault that he was born in a COUNTRY with bad internet connections?? Don't forget that many players from SE Asia had their connectivity blasted to the Stone Age a few month back because of the Taiwan earthquake. You're saying THAT's clients' fault too. Sorry, I can't buy that.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 04:45:00 - [175] Originally by: Ryoma Sakamoto Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 02:56:48 All I can say, it's your own fault for having crap connection/crap computer/crap whatever. Even if you can't do anything about it - it's still the fault of the client, not of CCP and not the fault of other players. Are you seriously saying that it's the client's fault that he was born in a COUNTRY with bad internet connections?? Don't forget that many players from SE Asia had their connectivity blasted to the Stone Age a few month back because of the Taiwan earthquake. You're saying THAT's clients' fault too. Sorry, I can't buy that. I'll clarify. I was not talking "client" as in the person who is in country xxx. I was talking about the client as seen in client-server applications. Unless it's the server's fault of going down, it is the client's fault of losing connection/crashing/whatever. Now I didn't say that CCP's clientside software was perfect, but still, if only one person crashes out of 20 000, then it's that client's fault, not the fault of the server or any of the other 19 999 players. Unless there is a rare serverside bug. So what I am trying to say, is unless it is a serverside bug, the responsibility of staying connected or losing that connection lies with the client. Now if asia has bad internet connections, then they suffer, because it's the connection of the client that is bad to the server, and that's what matters. You see - in a world of client-server applications, you never trust the client, and you assume that the client can do any number of random stuff. Also, if a client loses connectivity, unless your server's entire connection went down, it's still up to the client to stay connected - so yes it's his fault. Note how I added "Don't know if you understand". Don't take everything too literally or show me examples of starving children. My own connection used to be rather bad a while ago, but I didn't say that the server should accomodate me. It's still my fault I had a bad connection - I coul always move to UK and live 1km from the data centre where the servers are hosted, and get a direct routing to them. So even if theoretically and speaking in non-computer terminology "it's not the client's fault because he can not do anything about it" then in practice, it is, and you should not trust a client to provide data. After all, if the server-client relationship would be unimportant, why not make eve peer to peer? The answer is simple, there must be a central server that enforces certain rules and mechanics. If you remove this approach and make it peer to peer for example, then in every instance your gun might do different damage, since every client could be edited. I hope you see my point now. N.F.F. Recruitment
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 04:54:00 - [176] Originally by: Hoshi Maybe it's a subtle boost to smartbombs, they now want every camp to include a smartbomb ship to kill all those logging frigates etc :) Assuming my dictor had the cap to run more than a couple of small smartbombs, and that I wanted to completely ruin the fitting on it, and that I could get within range for that quickly enough to do enough dps.... yeah... good luck with that. Please make these ships lockable as they should be CCP... and fix the inability of the probes to halt a previously initiated warp when launched while you are at it. Kind of sad to watch people land at 0 just because they hit warp 1/2 second before your module activated.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 04:58:00 - [177] Originally by: Selnix Originally by: Hoshi Maybe it's a subtle boost to smartbombs, they now want every camp to include a smartbomb ship to kill all those logging frigates etc :) Assuming my dictor had the cap to run more than a couple of small smartbombs, and that I wanted to completely ruin the fitting on it, and that I could get within range for that quickly enough to do enough dps.... yeah... good luck with that. You do realize that he was being more than slightly sarcastic, right? :) Quote: Please make these ships lockable as they should be CCP... and fix the inability of the probes to halt a previously initiated warp when launched while you are at it. Kind of sad to watch people land at 0 just because they hit warp 1/2 second before your module activated. Completely agree! N.F.F. Recruitment
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 05:11:00 - [178] I'm sure CCP is aware of this new logoff exploit and they want to fix it. I only hope that they realize the seriousness of the situation and not force the community to wait another 2 months for next Revalations patch. This issue needs to be hotfixed as soon as possible. Quote: Please make these ships lockable as they should be CCP... and fix the inability of the probes to halt a previously initiated warp when launched while you are at it. Kind of sad to watch people land at 0 just because they hit warp 1/2 second before your module activated. This is a whole new subject that would need a lot of discussion, in a different thread. Don't derail the main topic.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:00:00 - [179] I say. To prevent both exploit and frustrated people form real crashes... Make when you disconnect you do not warp .. for lets say 5 minutes. But you cannot be targeted. If you reconnect.. as soon as you give any command to the ship you become targeteable again. Fair to both sides. If you don't reconect after these 5 minutes you stay still there for like 3-4 more minutes, posssibly under fire. IF you are alive after that time... you warp. That means if you log out to avoid the camp you will die. But if you had a CTD you will be able to log in and die as a man! fighting. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Andreya	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:23:00 - [180] I love you Ryysa! Please fix my dictor bubbles CCP!!!!, i temporarily stopped playing untill you fix my ship that a trained for and enjoy. go ahead and check my log ins... poor product testing is making this game too frusterating for me. yarrrr! well, thanx for fixing nano BS's tho woot to no more BS's outrunning Intys
Dzajic Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:24:00 - [181] What if my ISP connection breaks every couple of hours. And what if my only other internet choice is 28.8 modem conection (yay for Pulse Code Modulation) that disscons every 5 minutes. So i should just not play EVE or any other MMO, right?
Kitiara Armitage Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:54:00 - [182] honestly I've always wanted to see a safety field added to gates so you can't activate weapons within or on anything in a 20km radius of it :P Gate camping is a lame tactic in and of itself, so when the campers complain about lame tactics being used against them, it's just amusing :P __________________________________
xHomicide Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 12:41:00 - [183] Edited by: xHomicide on 22/03/2007 12:38:11 Mechanic should be: Player clicks log out 1 minute counter displays on screen, the player remains ingane, watching his character. During this log out period if the player does anything or gets attacked the 1 minute counter is canceled. After 1 minute the ship disappears from space. When a player is agressed a 15 minute global timer is set. During this 15 minute period the player's ship will remain in space even if the player has logged out. If a player attempts to start the 1 minute logout process while they have a 15 minute agro timer a confirm/cancel dialog should inform them that their ship will remain in space for another 15 minutes. If a player attempted to log out at a gate: 1) They should start the 1 minute logout process 2) They should be attacked, canceling the logout process and giving them a 15 minute global timer Players would be fully aware of their 15 minute log out timer. They would be fully aware when their ship would and wouldn't disappear as they log out. If a player losses connection it would be treated as if they had logged out. A 1 minute logout process would be set. If they get attacked during this period a 15 minute agro timer is set. After 1 minute the 15 minute global timer would seize to update, leaving the ship in space for 15 more minutes, then disapear. Really a rather simple solution and the solution most MMOs use to logout/lagout. --- Razor CEI
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:12:00 - [184] Originally by: Kitiara Armitage honestly I've always wanted to see a safety field added to gates so you can't activate weapons within or on anything in a 20km radius of it :P Gate camping is a lame tactic in and of itself, so when the campers complain about lame tactics being used against them, it's just amusing :P Gate camp is only way to have combat in game. Its not lame. If it was not intended feature.. why would be bubbles? If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
BluOrange Gallente Militis Fortuna	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:21:00 - [185] How's this for a fix? "Entering a warp bubble (by jumping, warping, or just flying in) counts as player aggression, and therefore starts a 15 minute aggression timer"
Gaius BaItar	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:37:00 - [186] To log or not to log off, that is the questionà I wonder how come CCP canÆt separate logging off from disconnects on a software level. How hard is to recognize a æquitÆ command and make the distinction between quitting and loosing connection. When you quit the game, you know you get a timer before your ship disappears, so you prepare this event. Having a warning timer on your screen would be even better. When you disconnect, itÆs out of your hands. There is no æquitÆ command, so the software æshouldÆ detect this and behave appropriately. IÆve never disconnected myself to save a ship and IÆll never do. I like Eve to be as close to reality as possible. Saving a ship by logging off is not a tactic you could use if you were in space æin real lifeÆ. But not everyone is like me. On the other hand, sometimes my client disconnects itself out of the blue. I have a fairly good internet provider, no problems with other games, but Eve is different and decides to eject me every now and then. Luckily it didnÆt happen during a fight. I hope this issue is under evaluation right now and weÆll get an answer soon.
Fanjita	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:52:00 - [187] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 05:26:44 From the patch notes: Quote: Logging off inside a warp disrupt bubble (mobile warp disrupt or interdictor bubble) no longer triggers an emergency warp. Now we all know what happens if someone who is not aggressed logs out. His ship disappears within a minute, no matter if he gets aggressed within that one minute. Cloaking time is 1 minute, logoff timer when not aggro is 1 minute. Even though you can see the character after he logs off, he is not really decloaked (you can't lock). EDIT: Ok, so... Currently it is like this: [00:00] Character 1 Jumps in. [00:02] Character 2 Launches Interdictor Sphere [00:05] Character 1 Logs off and decloaks. [01:00] Character 1 Becomes Lockable by Character 2. [01:05] Character 1 Disappears. Character 2 has 5 seconds to kill Character 1. Here is a video kindly provided by Hoshi that shows what is meant. And this is how it was before the patch: [00:00] Character 1 Jumps in. [00:02] Character 2 Launches Interdictor Sphere [00:05] Character 1 Logs off and decloaks, starts to attempt emergency warp. [00:05] Character 1 Becomes Lockable by Character 2. [01:05] Character 1 Disappears. Character 2 has 1 minute to kill Character 1. Ok, so basically, now it is completely pointless to use dictor bubbles in 0.0. Because anyone who jumps into your dictor and is not aggressed can just log, and he will be safe 95% of the time if he logs really fast. This is a horrible exploit, I hope CCP come up with a fix /soon/. EDIT2: I just checked what happens when you log back in after you disappear in a bubble at a gate, you appear 1 million km away from the spot you disappeared at. So this entire patch makes the logging problem worse, and if you think about the LV incident with nodecrashes/logging etc, this will just make these tactics even more effective. - This paragraph is currently disputed, will need to conduct more tests. So in fact, even though CCP wanted to nerf logoff tactics, they boosted them in every possible aspect. The only situation in which this patch would help is if a heavily stabbed up ship which already has pvp timer jumps into your gatecamp. But the patch breaks ten times more than it fixes. EDIT3: Proposed Changes: 1. Make ship instantly decloak and become lockable if it logs after jumping into bubble. 2. Make ship which is currently not on a PvP aggro timer, receive a 15 minute timer if he is aggressed while he is already logged off. 3. Make ship without aggro timer disappear from space within 20 seconds. 4. Make ship which logs out in POS forcefield not leave it after logging, just like with an interdictor bubble. Discuss, but please watch the video (it was made after patch) before you post. We managed to hijack someones large bubble in pf the other night :) now a falcon jumped in and immediately logged off we all saw him no one could lock him when we finally got lock poof he vanished :( well thats a load of crap we thought the old logoffski is better now than before. we carried on camping got a few kills half an hour later the falcon logged back in and appeared in exactly the same place he logged needless to say hes off getting a new falcon and clone so if you hang around you can get them but not always a feasible option out in 0.0
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:56:00 - [188] Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 13:53:00 Originally by: Gaius BaItar To log or not to log off, that is the question… I wonder how come CCP can’t separate logging off from disconnects on a software level. How hard is to recognize a ‘quit’ command and make the distinction between quitting and loosing connection. Yeah right, then people will just hit a button in their firewall or plug the cord. Quote: When you quit the game, you know you get a timer before your ship disappears, so you prepare this event. Having a warning timer on your screen would be even better. When you disconnect, it’s out of your hands. There is no ‘quit’ command, so the software ‘should’ detect this and behave appropriately. What i wrote above. Originally by: Kitiara Armitage honestly I've always wanted to see a safety field added to gates so you can't activate weapons within or on anything in a 20km radius of it :P Gate camping is a lame tactic in and of itself, so when the campers complain about lame tactics being used against them, it's just amusing :P Ok, just a tiny fact for you. Most of eve pvp happens at gates, since they are natural chokepoints. Define gatecamping? Let's say you are moving with a 4 man roaming squad, 1 scout ahead. Scout jumps through, says HEY GUYS there's a raven on other side. Ok, so raven jumps into the squad, squad puts bubble, raven logs, he is invincible. Is that gatecamping? Honestly, stop derailing my thread, it has nothing to do with gatecamping. You are actually trying to justify exploiting, because you are bad at the game, maybe get better at the game using legitimate means (HI SCOUT???) instead of trying to exploit and cheat your way through it? I think I am going to go mental if I see one more "zomg camping is lame" comment here. This has nothing to do with camping. I started this thread and I really hate gatecamping, I think it's the most skillless way to pvp in eve, but it doesn't have to do anything with the fact that you are invulnerable in 0.0 if your enemy has an interdictor and you jump into it. If you want to discuss the "lameness" of pvp tactics in this game, then please start your own goddamn thread and whine there. N.F.F. Recruitment
Awox Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:02:00 - [189] Gatecamping greifers are lame. They should be bannished to Counter Strike.
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:05:00 - [190] A Guy in a raven ctrl q'ed on me and some buddies today. We killed him anyway. Guess if your camp is that overpowered they will log, you may as well not use a bubble and just scram them instead. Or bubble the out gate. Or both gates... -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:11:00 - [191] Originally by: jamesw A Guy in a raven ctrl q'ed on me and some buddies today. We killed him anyway. Guess if your camp is that overpowered they will log, you may as well not use a bubble and just scram them instead. Or bubble the out gate. Or both gates... Well that means that either the raven took forever to realize that he should log. Or you didn't have a bubble up. Pick one :o N.F.F. Recruitment
Idunyken Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:26:00 - [192] Edited by: Idunyken on 22/03/2007 14:23:27 A simple solution (not that I think it's likely to be taken into consideration while the devs are trying to solve this startup problem ): Currently ships that log get an automatic command to warp to a random location 1 million km away. I propose that the ship is given an extra command to increase to max speed JUST BEFORE being given the command to warp. This will have no affect on the warp speed if the commands come only a split second apart and will trigger a decloak if the ship had just jumped thru a gate. (edit for typo)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:38:00 - [193] It decloaks already. That is not the problem. The problem is that the decloaked ship is not lockable for 1 minute, just like when you undock.
Idunyken Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:49:00 - [194] Originally by: Aramendel It decloaks already. That is not the problem. The problem is that the decloaked ship is not lockable for 1 minute, just like when you undock. It's 30 seconds, not a minute When you undock you become lockable the moment you do something like lock someone or try to move, whether it's been 30 seconds or not. My idea still stands.
Gaius BaItar	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:53:00 - [195] Edited by: Gaius BaItar on 22/03/2007 14:51:44 Originally by: Ryysa Yeah right, then people will just hit a button in their firewall or plug the cord. Of course they would. A dedicated logoffski guy would do anything to save his ship. Right now itÆs too easy. Simply close the window or press ctrl-q to escape a ætightÆ situation. ItÆs done in 1 sec. Why not make it harder? When you pull the plug, itÆs not only you who gets out of the game, but your alts too, if they share the connection. Any way to discourage this log off behavior is good, imo. IÆd say 1 minute timer before vanishing is a good compromise (a passive tanked ship could survive, though). All they have to do is start the timer when the ship becomes visible and can be targeted.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:24:00 - [196] Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 15:20:58 I don't know about you. But I can block eve from using internet with 1 mouse click. Maybe you live in stone age? That without harming any other applications. N.F.F. Recruitment
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:28:00 - [197] sometimes you wonder if the features are tested before being implemented ------ Relaxed corp recruiting
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:35:00 - [198] Originally by: Splagada sometimes you wonder if the features are tested before being implemented Hehe QFT :P N.F.F. Recruitment
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:11:00 - [199] I honestly have a hard time feeling sorry for the griefers when they cant kill enough miners and mission runners. If anything, high sec in empire should be made more safe, not less. And I dont speak for my own sake (I live in 0.0), but for the new players and corps who often dont even know what it means to be wardecced. The situation with bubbles and logging is different. Anyone who lives in 0.0 knows the risks, but chooses to live there anyway. If you jump or warp into a bubble, there should be no way to get out except manually flying away or fighting it out.
Gaius BaItar	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:26:00 - [200] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 15:20:58 Maybe you live in stone age? Hmmà thanks for making me aware of that. BTW, is fire invented yet? 'Cause I have this idea about hitting two stonesà I agree with you, log off is easy to do, no matter how you do it. No need to shoot me for an idea, though.
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:31:00 - [201] Ryysa's logic is difficult to refute here. It reminds me of something that happened at work today. I.T. worked on one of our machines to "clean it up" and improve performance. Afterwards, the computer was slower than ever before. Two thumbs up CCP
Fenderson OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:16:00 - [202] i dont understand CCPs desire to obfuscate logoff/agression timers. Why not just SHOW PEOPLE THEIR DAMN TIMERS!!! that way you could be a little more liberal with it, and do things like making logging in a bubble give agro timer, because people would be able to know when they are aggrod and when they can log off. so give anyone who logs in a bubble an agro timer, and LET THEM KNOW THEY HAVE IT! sigs are for the weak
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:25:00 - [203] Originally by: Idunyken It's 30 seconds, not a minute When you undock you become lockable the moment you do something like lock someone or try to move, whether it's been 30 seconds or not. My idea still stands. You still miss the point. Yes, I know it's 30 secs when undocking. When loggin in a bubble however, it's not. But the priciple, "you see me but cannot lock me" is the same. Let me repeat: It decloaks already. That is not the problem. Got it this time? Not unlcoaking is not the problem. Not uncloaking is not the problem. Not uncloaking is not the problem. The problem is that you cannot be locked without being cloaked for 1 minute after you jump in if you log in the bubble. It's been described several times in this thread already. Read it up.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:52:00 - [204] I get the feeling the devs want to confuse us so nobody really knows how the timers work and not being able to fully exploit them. Ship lovers click here
Idunyken Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.03.22 20:41:00 - [205] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Idunyken It's 30 seconds, not a minute When you undock you become lockable the moment you do something like lock someone or try to move, whether it's been 30 seconds or not. My idea still stands. You still miss the point. Yes, I know it's 30 secs when undocking. When loggin in a bubble however, it's not. But the priciple, "you see me but cannot lock me" is the same. Let me repeat: It decloaks already. That is not the problem. Got it this time? Not unlcoaking is not the problem. Not uncloaking is not the problem. Not uncloaking is not the problem. The problem is that you cannot be locked without being cloaked for 1 minute after you jump in if you log in the bubble. It's been described several times in this thread already. Read it up. No, I do get that...let me try and get the wording right... From what I gather the reason that you are invulnerable when logging in a bubble after jumping a gate is because the ship has not been given any commands, the 'warp off' one you normally get is invalid cos of the bubble. Therefore the invulerable timer is still in effect. I know you still appear, I watched the video . If a command that is valid (such as 'increase speed') is given then the invulerable timer would be cancelled and the ship would be lockable. That any better?
Eksist	Posted - 2007.03.22 20:49:00 - [206] I've quickly read the pages in this thread so I may have missed it so get your knives ready... I'm interested in the situation where the attackers have managed to successfully aggro a player before they log off. Is it still possible to ctrl-q and log on an alt to make your main char disappear long before the 15-minute aggro timer is up? I'm very new and while I understand the frustration at people going poof in front of attackers before aggro, I'm actually more concerned about the escape mechanisms that exist if the attackers do manage to do everything right and successfully engage a target before they logoff (from a stealthed position for example). Does the get-out-of-jail-free alt relog still exist?
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.22 20:52:00 - [207] an untanked ship, even a BS doesnt take long to kill in a cruiser, its very easy to do so before they disappear...unless ofc their passive tanked :) ------------
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.22 21:25:00 - [208] I got the best solution. remove the abilty to place bubbles on gates, and then people won't be pansies and spawn camp gates. Problem solved.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.22 21:27:00 - [209] Originally by: sakana an untanked ship, even a BS doesnt take long to kill in a cruiser, its very easy to do so before they disappear...unless ofc their passive tanked :) You do know that as it is currently you have around 5 to 10 sec to kill the ship. And that includes the time to lock it. Unless you have enough ships there to pop it in 1 volley it will survive. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.22 21:29:00 - [210] Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 22/03/2007 21:29:30 "Gate camp is only way to have combat in game. Its not lame. If it was not intended feature.. why would be bubbles? " Total BS. There are plenty ways for combat in this game that doesn mandate camping gates. It is just that it takes effort and you have to actively play instead of sit on your arse listening to mp3's while you do homework. Look people are playing this game, PVP them where ever they are playing. If they are running missions try to hunt them down, if they are mining hunt them down, if they are traveling run them down, if they are ratting pvp them there complexes? get them there... If that isnt enough then whine to CCP to provide more places for pvp encounters to occur beyond zone lines ( which is all a gate is ). Really it is comical to hear people tell of their PVP in eve. "this falcon logs off on us while we are camping and a few hours later he logs into our same bubble camp that we been sitting at for hours and we kill and pod him RAWR!" Egad PVP is eve is truly pathetic.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.23 02:41:00 - [211] Edited by: Ryysa on 23/03/2007 02:37:50 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Total BS. There are plenty ways for combat in this game that doesn mandate camping gates. It is just that it takes effort and you have to actively play instead of sit on your arse listening to mp3's while you do homework. Look people are playing this game, PVP them where ever they are playing. If they are running missions try to hunt them down, if they are mining hunt them down, if they are traveling run them down, if they are ratting pvp them there complexes? get them there... If that isnt enough then whine to CCP to provide more places for pvp encounters to occur beyond zone lines ( which is all a gate is ). Really it is comical to hear people tell of their PVP in eve. "this falcon logs off on us while we are camping and a few hours later he logs into our same bubble camp that we been sitting at for hours and we kill and pod him RAWR!" Egad PVP is eve is truly pathetic. Anyway, what does this have to do with the thread? This affects anyone, gatecampers or roaming pvp squads. Stop derailing thread =/ Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle flaming You sir, are getting petitioned for harrassment, right now. N.F.F. Recruitment
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.03.23 17:08:00 - [212] "Anyway, what does this have to do with the thread? This affects anyone, gatecampers or roaming pvp squads. Stop derailing thread =/" Really? You might want to think that through before you post it. This seems to only affect people who spawn camp. I mean that is the only time I am cloaked, if you drop a bubble on me while I am ratting I am toast etc....
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.03.23 17:14:00 - [213] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 22/03/2007 21:29:30 "Gate camp is only way to have combat in game. Its not lame. If it was not intended feature.. why would be bubbles? " Total BS. There are plenty ways for combat in this game that doesn mandate camping gates. It is just that it takes effort and you have to actively play instead of sit on your arse listening to mp3's while you do homework. Look people are playing this game, PVP them where ever they are playing. If they are running missions try to hunt them down, if they are mining hunt them down, if they are traveling run them down, if they are ratting pvp them there complexes? get them there... If that isnt enough then whine to CCP to provide more places for pvp encounters to occur beyond zone lines ( which is all a gate is ). Really it is comical to hear people tell of their PVP in eve. "this falcon logs off on us while we are camping and a few hours later he logs into our same bubble camp that we been sitting at for hours and we kill and pod him RAWR!" Egad PVP is eve is truly pathetic. You fail sir. Completely. Your version of PvP encompasses such a teeny tiny part of the game and is usually referred to as pirating. It is nearly impossible to probe someone down if they know you are looking for them. Gates provide the only places in space where you're guarenteed to cross paths with someone else. Please go back to low sec and continue to blow up mission runners and leave intelligent discussion to someone else. -Wylker
M00dy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.03.23 17:22:00 - [214] Don't forget to submit a bug report. Mine is sent. :) Pew Pew

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