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Kher'Aleer
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.03.29 02:05:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Mini Coupe
I have no problem with suicide ganking in high-sec so much as with insurance payouts to suicide gankers.
Why should people blown up committing a crime be rewarded with insurance payouts. If Concord blows up your ship there should be zero insurance payout.
/signed
Also there should be more ways to protect the freighter but to sit there doing nothing while someone shoots it to pieces.
Like say, the ability to fit hull repair system and damage control (but not cargo expanders, yes I know).
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WarMongeer
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Posted - 2007.03.29 02:05:00 -
[152]
To the people saying it shouldn't be safe anywhere to fly anywhere, I have to agree. It shouldn't.
The changes made to freighters recently however are singularly unique compared to any other ship in the game. Because they have no slots for modules, killing one freighter pilot ungrouped can be calculated mathematically without regard to how skilled the pilot is.
This would be like telling a dread pilot 'ok, you're going to do this amount of damage, going to have this amount of resists, and you're never ever going to be able to adjust that. If you don't like it, don't fly this ship." If freighters even had one low slot, this thread wouldn't exist.
There had to be a motivation behind making them drop loot. They've being trying for a while now to implement this feature. What I see wrong with this is the fact that you're making a ship that has so many limitations (can't fit modules, very very slow, can't pick up cans, can't interface with POS (although that one might be fixed, haven't heard), can't drop cans in space) into a giant space carrot for any well organized pirate operation, without compensating the pilots for painting a huge red X on their collective asses. 
How about some counterbalance here, eh? Give some love to the driver, not just the horse so to speak. Give them some slots and/or ability to drop stuff in space and/or POS functionality. Or something.
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.29 02:24:00 -
[153]
I like suicide ganking. I dont do it, but it's a very realistic game dynamic.
Think of it as high-sec terrorism. Someone suicide ganks, they die, simple. Meanwhile someone (an alt somewhere nearby) benefits in some way.
People confuse high sec as being safe. It's not. period. If you're in a noobcorp, you cant be wardecced so thats protection. As a noob, that protects you when you *dont* understand the game, and more importantly, when you dont have anything of worth. When you start to become a target, through one mechanism or another, you have to learn how to protect your assets.
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Ryoma Sakamoto
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Posted - 2007.03.29 03:54:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
I like suicide ganking. I dont do it, but it's a very realistic game dynamic.
Think of it as high-sec terrorism. Someone suicide ganks, they die, simple. Meanwhile someone (an alt somewhere nearby) benefits in some way.
I agree to the analogy here. The problem is, the suicide gankers, who are Eve equivalent of Al-Qaeda, don't face the risks commensurate with their acts.
As you all know, Al-Qaeda became international outlaw after 9/11. So, a suicide gankers should:
a) Become -10 sec rating immediately.
b) Have ALL his insurance annulled without refund (All insurers are exempt from honoring any insurance policy by a suicide bomber IRL).
c) A corp has 24 hours to expel the suicide ganker or have itself and all its members be declared -10 (outlaws).
With the character delete time limits, this will restrict any account to 2 suicide ganks per week, so the ganker's earnings per hour will take a severe hit.
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zoltar
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Posted - 2007.03.29 03:57:00 -
[155]
/signed
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.29 04:02:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Ryoma Sakamoto
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
I like suicide ganking. I dont do it, but it's a very realistic game dynamic.
Think of it as high-sec terrorism. Someone suicide ganks, they die, simple. Meanwhile someone (an alt somewhere nearby) benefits in some way.
I agree to the analogy here. The problem is, the suicide gankers, who are Eve equivalent of Al-Qaeda, don't face the risks commensurate with their acts.
As you all know, Al-Qaeda became international outlaw after 9/11. So, a suicide gankers should:
a) Become -10 sec rating immediately.
b) Have ALL his insurance annulled without refund (All insurers are exempt from honoring any insurance policy by a suicide bomber IRL).
c) A corp has 24 hours to expel the suicide ganker or have itself and all its members be declared -10 (outlaws).
With the character delete time limits, this will restrict any account to 2 suicide ganks per week, so the ganker's earnings per hour will take a severe hit.
So joe newbie, who accidentally attacks someone he's befriended early, is suddenly restricted to 0.4 or less which are dangerous, non-newbie areas? then has to wait 9 hours before trying again
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Voin
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Posted - 2007.03.29 04:05:00 -
[157]
Well, 6 pages and no one answer from oficial face... I'm not pilot of freighter, but I understood a problem... Let me think about this situation...
Are CONCORD by paying insurance to crime (suicide pilot's) corrupted? - 100 %
Do CCP know that, CONCORD corrupted? - 100%
Do CCP know, what happened with hundred's chinese in China every year, when police got them for corrupt things? I wont scare you guys and I don't know law of China, do you?
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Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.03.29 05:09:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Raivi on 29/03/2007 05:05:59
Originally by: Ryoma Sakamoto
I agree to the analogy here. The problem is, the suicide gankers, who are Eve equivalent of Al-Qaeda, don't face the risks commensurate with their acts.
As you all know, Al-Qaeda became international outlaw after 9/11. So, a suicide gankers should:
a) Become -10 sec rating immediately.
b) Have ALL his insurance annulled without refund (All insurers are exempt from honoring any insurance policy by a suicide bomber IRL).
c) A corp has 24 hours to expel the suicide ganker or have itself and all its members be declared -10 (outlaws).
With the character delete time limits, this will restrict any account to 2 suicide ganks per week, so the ganker's earnings per hour will take a severe hit.
I can't resist.
Your real life analogy works to a point, but if we wanted to be more accurate it would work like this:
a)You suicide gank something
b)Concord attacks you, your corp and any corp you've ever been in.
c)Concord then quickly gives up and starts ignoring you, allowing you to suicide gank to your heart's content.
d)Meanwhile Concord picks a random corporation, declares that they are connected to you and that they have hidden titans, and wipes them off the map.
Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum |
Sem Antix
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:11:00 -
[159]
Stupid questions....
is it possible to remote armor rep/shield boost etc on freighters? (If gankers have to take out a repair squad and repair drones first, it gives Concord more time to clear them - and increases Freighter surviveability)
has anyone considered the insurance of cargo?
are ccp still considering NPC freight services?
how about a freighter only option to destroy cargo when it becomes evident they are going down? (Obviously the destroy option couldn't happen if there is cargo insurance.)
I don't think Freighters should be invulnerable - just considering ways that might make the gankers think twice or adapt.
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:15:00 -
[160]
Not sure if it's fixed, but apparently that was considered an act of aggression and you'd be concorded
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Sverre Haakonson
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:28:00 -
[161]
/signed
Reason:
Suicide ganking has to less risks.
Corp SECUWAY
Alliance SECUWAY
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Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:37:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Sem Antix
Stupid questions....
is it possible to remote armor rep/shield boost etc on freighters? (If gankers have to take out a repair squad and repair drones first, it gives Concord more time to clear them - and increases Freighter surviveability)
has anyone considered the insurance of cargo?
are ccp still considering NPC freight services?
how about a freighter only option to destroy cargo when it becomes evident they are going down? (Obviously the destroy option couldn't happen if there is cargo insurance.)
I don't think Freighters should be invulnerable - just considering ways that might make the gankers think twice or adapt.
It's completely possible to remote rep a freighter, but with the amount of DPS that's needed to kill one before Concord arrives, the remote reps won't really have a chance to do much. SO they can be a bit helpful, but there are better ways to escort a freighter.
NPC freight services (within the constellation) is definitely coming, but it won't replace the need for player freighters to carry stuff outside the constellation.
Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum |
Craminu
Gallente
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:49:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Craminu on 29/03/2007 06:50:35
i fly an freighter my self.
i do like he change that freighter can drop cans. but we have no way of counter it once we get attacked. just sit and hope concord aids you fast.
yes freighters arent suppose to be unbreakable. nothing are. just try to design some freighter modules like reppers or warp scramblers. have the warp speed increased etc. Or make it so you cant warp scramble an freighter except using spesial modules that can only fit in bigger ships, or warp bubbles
and for the insurance payment of pirates. if you get concorded, you shouldent get insurance payed by them.
hopefully ccp will read this long tread, and work on some changes :)
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.03.29 07:28:00 -
[164]
This whole thread is just so lame it's beyond comprehension. There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking in high sec. The reason people lose ships to suicide gankers is 100% due to the players being ganked themselves. They didn't use their brains and take the required precautions to insure their safety.
Get a clue.
One scout, a few BS for escort, and I really don't see any freighter being ganked in high sec. The problem here is that players want to fly along by themselves and don't want to have to do any teamwork or any preperation ahead of time in order to ensure a comfortable level of safety.
So basically what you're telling me is that you're lazy and don't think you should have to work at anything to be successful.
Because I said so...
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.03.29 07:35:00 -
[165]
Ganking in any form is not true PvP.
/signed.
---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.03.29 07:51:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Ling Xiao
Edited by: Ling Xiao on 27/03/2007 18:21:13
Hey, if pirate NPCs can infest high-sec for mission runners, then it's about time human players can get in on the action and defy CONCORD even if it's just for 10 seconds at a time 
Best idea yet IMO.
Hi, we from your friendly insurance company have noted the destruction of your ship by Police Forces after comitting a criminal act. As found in our Service Terms, we can only offer you the basic payout due to this
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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mr bighelmet
EnTech
Pax Familia
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Posted - 2007.03.29 07:56:00 -
[167]
give my freight 5/5/5 slots and i will be more happy with the change.
No other ship (pod/shuttle are not ships) must be fly as it is all other ships can be configure so you have better chance to face the odds as it is i can either decide to drag 10+ BS whenever i undock or be at the mercy of others.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.03.29 08:01:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Raivi on 29/03/2007 07:57:25
Originally by: mr bighelmet
give my freight 5/5/5 slots and i will be more happy with the change.
No other ship (pod/shuttle are not ships) must be fly as it is all other ships can be configure so you have better chance to face the odds as it is i can either decide to drag 10+ BS whenever i undock or be at the mercy of others.
Cut down a freighter cargo hold to the size of a transport or industrial and I'd be fine with it having a 5/5/5 slot layout.
Freighters are intended to be giant hauling behemoths that need to be escorted. If they had defenses of their own than their ability to carry that much through highsec would be overpowered.
Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum |
Anila's Delight
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Posted - 2007.03.29 08:10:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Ki An
but when people use THE SAME METHOD stealing loot from the Privateers, it's perfectly fine, and even funny.
mmmm, Pithi X-type extra large shield booster
Originally by: Altrex
Conclusive proof ladies and gentlemen that WoW kills brain cells.
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Rabb Darktide
Independent Fleet
O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:31:00 -
[170]
Removing the insurance payouts and removing cargo scanners form game should solve this problem... Someone wants to suicide gank a freighter, they may find a ton or loot, or find, after losing a dozen battleships, that it was empty.
----
Rabb Darktide
Fleet Admiral (CEO) / O X I D E High Council
Independent Fleet [INDF]
INDF Recruitment |
Acarion Sphinx
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:39:00 -
[171]
No other ship but the freighter can be suicide ganked using less than half it's market value.
You only need 400 million ISK to efficiently kill off a freighter worth 1 billion ISK.
This is what needs to change.
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Sverre Haakonson
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:42:00 -
[172]
The best protection against suicide ganking is a ReCon-ship with sensor dampeners or ECM fittet. You are able to blind more then 3 gankers at one time. But its relative expensive, while a ganker is flying a cheap ship. Make it more expensive!
Corp SECUWAY
Alliance SECUWAY
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Corbeau Lenoir
Caldari
Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 10:20:00 -
[173]
Everything is fine as it is. Freighters shouldn't fly alone, even in highsec(is it so difficult to find scout in shuttle to accompany you?). If you do this - be prepared for the consequences aka suicide gank squads.
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Sisco Deivas
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:38:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Tressia
Edited by: Tressia on 27/03/2007 19:46:44
Theres a german word that may describe them, "Schadenfreude" meaning "pleasure taken from someone else's misfortune".
It's all I can think judging by the actions and non-action of Devs with Eve.
The basis of humour is that you laugh at someone elses misfortune.... funny that isn't it? :P |
Motorcycle Emptiness
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:43:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Ryoma Sakamoto
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
I like suicide ganking. I dont do it, but it's a very realistic game dynamic.
Think of it as high-sec terrorism. Someone suicide ganks, they die, simple. Meanwhile someone (an alt somewhere nearby) benefits in some way.
I agree to the analogy here. The problem is, the suicide gankers, who are Eve equivalent of Al-Qaeda, don't face the risks commensurate with their acts.
As you all know, Al-Qaeda became international outlaw after 9/11. So, a suicide gankers should:
a) Become -10 sec rating immediately.
b) Have ALL his insurance annulled without refund (All insurers are exempt from honoring any insurance policy by a suicide bomber IRL).
c) A corp has 24 hours to expel the suicide ganker or have itself and all its members be declared -10 (outlaws).
With the character delete time limits, this will restrict any account to 2 suicide ganks per week, so the ganker's earnings per hour will take a severe hit.
and so every one who accidentally incurs the wrath of concord (lots of players do this) gets effectively kicked from the game with a -10 sec rating and are also chucked out of their corp? oooookay.
Personally I think simply nullifying insurance would cover this area.
Flashing White Box (rank 1) |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:10:00 -
[176]
Originally by: murder one
This whole thread is just so lame it's beyond comprehension. There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking in high sec. The reason people lose ships to suicide gankers is 100% due to the players being ganked themselves. They didn't use their brains and take the required precautions to insure their safety.
Get a clue.
One scout, a few BS for escort, and I really don't see any freighter being ganked in high sec. The problem here is that players want to fly along by themselves and don't want to have to do any teamwork or any preperation ahead of time in order to ensure a comfortable level of safety.
So basically what you're telling me is that you're lazy and don't think you should have to work at anything to be successful.
Umm, the freighter dies in something like 15-20 seconds. What kind of escort do you suggest to reduce the gankers firepower sufficiently within that timespan to prevent the death of the freighter?
Freighters have no defense. IMO they should change freighters to have 5 mid and 5 lowslots and enough cap/CPU and grid to fit capital reppers. If CCP makes freighters the biggest prize target in Eve, they deserve a chance to defend themselves.
--------------
In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Gorverius Lioncourt
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:13:00 -
[177]
Yes to suicide gankers!!!!!!!!!!
People putting their hauler alts in npc corps to avoid getting ganked in war is lame, suicide ganking is the way to balance that exploit!
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Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:13:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Umm, the freighter dies in something like 15-20 seconds. What kind of escort do you suggest to reduce the gankers firepower sufficiently within that timespan to prevent the death of the freighter?
It's already been discussed in this thread, but for instance a smartbombing or ECM bursting ship that you have insured and don't mind losing to concord in the likely event that you hit a neutral. That should do the trick just fine.
Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum |
w0rmy
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:14:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Creed Richards
Is high security (.5-1.0) space supposed to be safe or not?
No it is not.
Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg |
Dampfschlaghammer
Minmatar
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:24:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Dampfschlaghammer on 29/03/2007 12:35:46
/not signed
Risk vs Reward is not really violated, as suicide ganking of freighters requires much more effort than simply the gank itself. It requires carefully spying, coordination of dozens of battleships, sec status fixing and finally being lucky enough that the majority of the goods does not get destroyed.
And an even more important point: if you notice that you are getting scouted, or if you have very valuable goods, you can often prevent the gank by having some logistics cruisers as backup boosting the freighter - unless facing really overwhelming forces.
This means the gankers usually run the risk of losing lots of money without getting something, and with the enemy only dedicating a much smaller force to achieve this.
You can also use a second freighter as escort that will immediately get all the loot from the wreck of the first one, further reducing losses.
The only thing that changes is that hauling in empire is no longer an effortless, boring and 100% secure task, something that did not comply with EVE's philosophy in the first place.
With warp to zero, freighters have received a huge logistical advantage. With suicide ganking, they now also have the trade off that comes with putting all your eggs in one basket. Sounds good to me.
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