| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 25 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
   |
Posted - 2007.03.29 12:39:00 -
[181]
 Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer
You can also use a second freighter as escort that will immediately get all the loot from the wreck of the first one, further reducing losses.
You mean that freighters can pickup stuff from wrecks?
Of course the best defense is probably a second ship there with a fast lock to destroy the wreck as soon as the freighter dies, thus denying the loot to the attackers.
--------------
In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Dampfschlaghammer
Minmatar
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 12:42:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer
You can also use a second freighter as escort that will immediately get all the loot from the wreck of the first one, further reducing losses.
You mean that freighters can pickup stuff from wrecks?
Of course the best defense is probably a second ship there with a fast lock to destroy the wreck as soon as the freighter dies, thus denying the loot to the attackers.
Ok forgot that. Destroying stuff is the only option then.
|
Pehova Mindtriq
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 13:00:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Creed Richards
Yes, this is a PVP game, but is it PVP to greif people in a place where it's supposedly safe?
Keep real PVP to low sec and 0.0.
It's not safe in high sec and they never said it would be, it's just safer. And it's not griefing just because it is high sec. I think the system right now is good, it is possible to kill someone but you have to put alot of effort into it and risk losing alot. If you sit with 15 bs ready to gank a freighter you already guarateed the loss of those ships for the chance to maybe kill a freighter and maybe loot something from it.
You also get the security hit so it's not like you can do it forever.
Celes/Toxin vs BOB |
heheheh
Singularity.
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 13:16:00 -
[184]
Quote:
I do not think that is a good way to play.
nor me but each to his own,
and also in case you havn't read it one thousand times before,
HIGH SEC IS NOT SAFE, and nor should it be.
|
Random Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 13:17:00 -
[185]
/Signed ( use of alts to suicide gank should be called an exploit )
Use of character in a way not intended to bypass game mechanics
or two things that should be introduced.
1) NO INSURANCE PAYMENTS to people who lose there ships in incidents where concord has engaged them.
2) Concord remote shield/armor hardning repping for illigally attacked ships. They are police after all ( Protect ? and serve )
|
Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 13:20:00 -
[186]
Another vote for no insurance payouts when concorded.
|
Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 13:31:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Random Caldari
/Signed ( use of alts to suicide gank should be called an exploit )
Use of character in a way not intended to bypass game mechanics
By the same token, use of alts to fly the freighter should be called an exploit. Use of alts in any manner should be called an exploit.
Thought much today?
/Ki
Remember, kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Hamfast
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 14:27:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Random Caldari
/Signed ( use of alts to suicide gank should be called an exploit )
Use of character in a way not intended to bypass game mechanics
By the same token, use of alts to fly the freighter should be called an exploit. Use of alts in any manner should be called an exploit.
Thought much today?
/Ki
Got to agree with you there... If the use of alts is bad, all use of alts is bad... same could be said for metagaming as a whole... if some is good, then all should be good... or not...
I still think if you are killed by Concord your insurance should be voided... nothing to do with suicide ganking, just thinking how a real insurance works, if they can get out of paying off, you don't get a red cent.
Noob in training...
|
Random Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 14:29:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Random Caldari
/Signed ( use of alts to suicide gank should be called an exploit )
Use of character in a way not intended to bypass game mechanics
By the same token, use of alts to fly the freighter should be called an exploit. Use of alts in any manner should be called an exploit.
Thought much today?
/Ki
Explanation.
Using a main to suicide results in a security hit.
Enough security hits means the player no longer has access to Empire.
Player has to go ratting etc. to raise there sec status if they want back into empire.
Using an alt to suicide results in a security hit.
Enough security hits means the player no longer has access to Empire.
Alt gets deleted , New alt gets created with clean sec status.
Player has bypassed security status flagging of character = Exploit.
Its not the act of using a alt that makes it an exploit no.
Only when the player is constantly deleting alts and creating new ones
to continue a process of pirating in high sec without having to pay the price of a low sec status.
Can you see the difference between this and flying a freighter on an alt ? or do you need to think a bit more first ?
|
Humpalot
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 14:33:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer
And an even more important point: if you notice that you are getting scouted, or if you have very valuable goods, you can often prevent the gank by having some logistics cruisers as backup boosting the freighter - unless facing really overwhelming forces.
Notice you are getting scouted? Good luck. Passing around many systems there are people camped at the gates with sensor boosters running. They are all over and could be doing it for a variety of reasons. Which one is the one scanning me for a gank? If I docked everytime I saw that I truly would never get anywhere.
Logistics ships won't save the freighter. The gankers pour vast amounts of DPS on the thing. It'd take a fleet of logistic ships to make a difference and even then I am not so sure.
The only viable method I have seen so far for protection is a smartbombing battleship and chances are very good that the escort battleship will get CONCORDED and the pilot probably take a massive sec hit as he kills and pods who knows how many non-flagged ships.
I was talking to people about ECM burst and the opinion is it won't help as drones re-acquire target locks very quickly.
Others have mentioned helping the freighter to fast warp but even with that help I think it is overly generous to assume that will get the freighter to safety and then we have one person who suggested a frig could save the day but is not sharing so who knows?
|
Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 14:52:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Random Caldari
Explanation.
Using a main to suicide results in a security hit.
Enough security hits means the player no longer has access to Empire.
Player has to go ratting etc. to raise there sec status if they want back into empire.
Using an alt to suicide results in a security hit.
Enough security hits means the player no longer has access to Empire.
Alt gets deleted , New alt gets created with clean sec status.
Player has bypassed security status flagging of character = Exploit.
Its not the act of using a alt that makes it an exploit no.
Only when the player is constantly deleting alts and creating new ones
to continue a process of pirating in high sec without having to pay the price of a low sec status.
If you had any proof that this is happening, all you have to do is petition it, as it is classed as a punishable offense. Using this as an argument is therefore moot.
On the other hand, using a noob corp alt to fly a freighter for you SHOULD be classed as an exploit, as it prevents your enemies from stopping the freighter, thus circumventing a game mechanic. Also, if this was introduced, suicide ganking would drop to a new low, as there would be no need for it.
/Ki
Remember, kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 14:54:00 -
[192]
To the OP - Denied!
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Raivi
Explosion Matrix
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 15:06:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Raivi on 29/03/2007 15:03:14
Recycling alts when their sec status gets too low is currently classed as an exploit and it petitionable, however it can be hard to tell from a player's point of view. If you're certain someone is recycling gank alts, then petition it and CCP can look at their character slot logs and confirm it.
I'm apologize to anyone who's been reading this whole thread because I'm going to be repeating a few concepts here:
As for smartbombs and ECM burst, yeah they are tricky, but they can help a lot. Smartbomb the drones, by staying as close as possible to the freighter and maybe using smaller medium smartbombs to minimize collateral. ECM burst the ganking ships, as drones instantly re-aquire. It requires a fairly fast ship, for obvious reasons. However if you can knock 5 or more enemy battleships out of the fight, they'll never get back in it (since they'll be jammed by concord by the time they can relock) and that will make a big difference in a suicide gank.
Frigate + webber + creative use of bookmarks = near instant warp away from the gate, which makes you very very hard to suicide gank. I won't repeat that whole strategy here, if you want to know the details, read through the thread.
The bottom line is that there are plenty of ways to defend your freighter with preparation and planning. I wouldn't mind a slight increase of HP for freighters, but it wouldn't be a good idea to kill off insurance for people who get concorded, if only because of all the people who get accidentally concorded.
Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum |
Brother Funkyshades
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 15:16:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Brother Funkyshades on 29/03/2007 15:16:09
Originally by: Creed Richards
Keep real PVP to low sec and 0.0.
dont regulate eve even more.
let the players deal with it. its more fun this way.
edit;
and i think if you add some remote repping exequrors/ospreys in the equation(that would need to be killed first), the cost to suicide gank anything larger than a frigate climb exponentially, and soon it will be unpayable.
you can even fit the webs on said cruisers for youknowwhat
|
Trubba Maykah
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 15:54:00 -
[195]
There is absolutely no reason to scout to find a freighter target. You only need to scout if you are looking for a specific freighter. Otherwise, you go to anyplace where trading happens and camp the gate. Bump and scan every freighter until you see one you like. Word will get around to some but not others and some will be AFK and miss the message anyway.
A scan defense like ECM defense may be an appropriate balancing tool.
|
Humpalot
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 16:23:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Ki An
On the other hand, using a noob corp alt to fly a freighter for you SHOULD be classed as an exploit, as it prevents your enemies from stopping the freighter, thus circumventing a game mechanic. Also, if this was introduced, suicide ganking would drop to a new low, as there would be no need for it.
/Ki
So the likes of Privateers who war dec the universe can bring a halt to all hauling? Good idea 
|
Humpalot
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 16:29:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Raivi
ECM burst the ganking ships, as drones instantly re-aquire. It requires a fairly fast ship, for obvious reasons. However if you can knock 5 or more enemy battleships out of the fight, they'll never get back in it (since they'll be jammed by concord by the time they can relock) and that will make a big difference in a suicide gank.
Frigate + webber + creative use of bookmarks = near instant warp away from the gate, which makes you very very hard to suicide gank.
ECM burst has a range of what...5km? With 20 enemies spread all over you are not going to get many unlocked and their drones continue the damage despite losing the lock. Maybe a Scorp with bonuses to get that range up but still...probably not going to do much as the drones keep going.
As for the webbing frig you are back into having me bookmark the Universe so I can deal with a gank wherever it may be. I'll do it but frankly sucks to contemplate (not to mention I doubt CCP would be thrilled at the return of so many BMs and the server load they cause).
|
Random Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 18:10:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Ki An
If you had any proof that this is happening, all you have to do is petition it, as it is classed as a punishable offense. Using this as an argument is therefore moot.
On the other hand, using a noob corp alt to fly a freighter for you SHOULD be classed as an exploit, as it prevents your enemies from stopping the freighter, thus circumventing a game mechanic. Also, if this was introduced, suicide ganking would drop to a new low, as there would be no need for it.
/Ki
Anything you can do legitemattely with a main you can do legitemattely with an alt. ccp does not recognise the difference between main and alt players those are just terms we use.
A corp can legitimattely use a third party to transport there goods if they wish, whether this is another non corp player or an alt is completelly irrelevant.
Declaring war against a corp gives you the right to shoot at there ships when located , it does not give you the right to shoot at any player who does business with that corp and may or may not be carrying goods belonging to them.
The post I made originally that you attempted to flame was calling for the use of disposable gank alts to be called an exploit. ( apologies if I did not make it clear what I was refering to ).
No player can ever provide proof that this is going on, to do so you would need to obtain the opposing players I.P. address, a banable offense to even try , so your arguement that we should petition it is rather moot.
What ccp should do is look for and suspend/ban them.
or better still
What should happen is that toons should get flagged in the db if they commit agression in high sec.
These toons should be non-deletable/non-transferable until they have worked up to a positive sec status.
Maybe allow once per year per account to allow for mistakes.
This wont affect genuine pirate players as the owner wont want to delete the char anyway.
|
Melisa Zeal
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 18:18:00 -
[199]
This sounds like somone owned you and now your whining about it :/
|
Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 18:46:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Random Caldari
stuff
Sigh...
My point was that there is no way to "legitimately" take down a freighter in high sec. Why? Because they're all run by NPC corp members. Thus, we have to resort to suicide ganking. Now you want to take that away.
My point it, if suicide ganking is made impossible/unviable, then we need to get rid of the ability for freighter pilots to stay in NPC corps. Otherwise freighters might as well be immune to damage in high sec.
About the proof part, my point is that it is ALREADY an exploit to do as you described. Recycled alts with negative sec rating is a no-no, so there's no point whining for it. It's already there.
/Ki
Remember, kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 19:08:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Ki An
My point was that there is no way to "legitimately" take down a freighter in high sec. Why? Because they're all run by NPC corp members. Thus, we have to resort to suicide ganking.
That's simply untrue.
Although, if you can somehow guarantee that this "tactic" will only be used against noob-corp piloted freighters, I would withdraw much of my objection. (But, of course, you can't.)
As it stands, this way leads to all future moves being done by the forthcoming NPC freighting. So congrats, we'll have completely killed player freighting in Empire. How does that do anyone any good?
Originally by: Ki An
Recycled alts with negative sec rating is a no-no, so there's no point whining for it. It's already there.
How exactly can someone else tell if you are recycling alts?
|
Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 19:18:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Although, if you can somehow guarantee that this "tactic" will only be used against noob-corp piloted freighters, I would withdraw much of my objection. (But, of course, you can't.)
As it stands, this way leads to all future moves being done by the forthcoming NPC freighting. So congrats, we'll have completely killed player freighting in Empire. How does that do anyone any good?
No, of course I can't guarantee it, but I can use common sense and say that suiciding a player corps freighter is pretty stupid, and that I would never do it. Why? Why spend 600 million in destroyed ships when you can spend 2 million and declare war, and then kill em all with impunity?
On the other hand, I'd partake in suiciding of NPC corp freighters any day, if only to **** the pilot off.
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
How exactly can someone else tell if you are recycling alts?
I dunno. It's CCP's rules, and I suppose they are able to enforce them. Otherwise it would be legal, as it is with loggofski.
/Ki
Remember, kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
The Slayer
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
Fatal Persuasion
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 19:18:00 -
[203]
If you have two buddies go with you - one to scout, one to web the freighter so it enters warp quicker - then you are gonna be fine 99% of the time anyway!
|
Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 19:23:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Ki An
Why spend 600 million in destroyed ships when you can spend 2 million and declare war, and then kill em all with impunity?
Because this is a target of opportunity thing. Sit at the gate, scan the freighters. When one is fat with loot, gank it.
OTOH, wardec someone and see how likely they are to trundle valuable cargo around in a freighter...
|
Aindrias
Amarr
Fomus-Amarr Industrial
Novus Ordos Seclorum
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 19:39:00 -
[205]
Quote:
No, of course I can't guarantee it, but I can use common sense and say that suiciding a player corps freighter is pretty stupid, and that I would never do it. Why? Why spend 600 million in destroyed ships when you can spend 2 million and declare war, and then kill em all with impunity?
One word
INSURANCE
Two diff mindsets are forming.
1. Those that want to work within what is considered a "normal" set of rules, common sensical.
2. People that say "If I can do it and get away with it, then it's not against the rules"
Freighters can be killed in high-sec, I don't think... for like the 10th time... anyone is arguing about that.
You could probably hire a corp to loot it. Ok.. fine.
But using expendable alts of the same people that did the ganking is where the line should be drawn. Also minimizing risk by basically paying the gankers insurance for PURPOSELY getting CONCORD'd is an EXPLOIT. I don't know any other word to describe it. It's not an ADAPT or DIE situation.
Man, you could fit RAT LOOT onto your BS's and do the job, so basically you're doing this for nearly nothing even if you don't get any loot from the Freighter.
The "oh no, the police will stop me if I atl/exploit/gank a Freighter" arguement is every bit the whining and lamer-tude as anyone else.
Aind
|
Awox
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 20:53:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Tunajuice
Another vote for no insurance payouts when concorded.
This is reasonable!
-
BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
chazthegreat
|
Posted - 2007.03.29 21:03:00 -
[207]
ok i got the idea guys ,
i'll hust charge to my customers...( the gankers ) more for my goods yeah thats the ticket.... to all who do this go to a lower sector where you can get ganked has well
you shut down haulers you shut down the game... and you will have to build all your stuff yourselves . at least let the " carebears" shoot back ... i fear that the gankers will stop if you do 
|
Hakar Kerarmor
Gallente
Arctic Productions
|
Posted - 2007.03.30 05:27:00 -
[208]
Why not fly around with another 10 identical freighters? Then laugh as the gankers try to figure out which one has the loot in it.
|
WarMongeer
|
Posted - 2007.03.31 02:07:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Tunajuice
Another vote for no insurance payouts when concorded.
I'd vote for that as well, either that or give those freighters a lowslot.
|
Mogrin
|
Posted - 2007.03.31 03:44:00 -
[210]
How about a huge device in each high security system that instantly scrambles the atoms of an offender? (BOOM HEADSHOT)
_______________
Rokh vs. Hyperion |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 25 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |