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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.22 15:12:00 -
[421]
SUBLIMINAL
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Zachstar
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Posted - 2007.09.22 15:25:00 -
[422]
Hell no!
M1 Abrams for the FAST WIN!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2007.09.22 15:27:00 -
[423]
Edited by: Zachstar on 22/09/2007 15:28:28
Edited by: Zachstar on 22/09/2007 15:27:23
Well we atleast know why you support no changes so much Sendraks.
Glad I don't have bias. (I do not trade and dont have a freighter that takes so long to align to anything) I do not get affected by ganking but I can still see how it effects things for everyone quickly.
Concord needs to concord the loot!
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Nito Musashi
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Posted - 2007.09.22 16:02:00 -
[424]
MAke scanning flag for kill rights if not ganged or in a corp together then these scanning alts could not sit around (insert trade hub here) risk free looking for juicy targets all day to call his gank buddies.
Ganking in hi sec should be allowed, ganking in hi sec for sheer profit needs risk right now there is none.
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Ilya Murametz
Caldari
Cruororis Consors Conlegium
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.09.22 16:24:00 -
[425]
Edited by: Ilya Murametz on 22/09/2007 16:25:45
I see your E-Stupidity is strong in you!
First of all , I don't even know if I was referring to you. Second of all, are you for real? From the way you wrote your post I sense you have great issues regarding you intelligence capacity.
You try to mask your insecurity with posts like this: dressing it nice,gramar check,punctucation, page and to top it alt,age,how smart? jokes.
To make it simpler for you, beeing that Concord is made belive , it's not defined by society and it's needs, it's defined by CCP and the gameplay needs.
From a Eve perspective, Concord is only a punitive force, it punishes those who are violent unprovoked ...
CCP wants it this way, as a balance, you can kill in empire but you will loose your ship. It's easy ,nobody wants empire to be a afk auto-pilot part of the game.
For the record the e-brain of my e-peen is bigger then your e-brain. Try to look smart in front of smart people,not on forums. But if you were really smart you would of know that.
Still hiding behind the Alt there sunshine 
I see you really did not follow the advice in my last paragraph there .. it's highly recommended I assure you. I mean, it might be true that you have nothing to fear since you're hiding behind the mighty alt.. but still, you silly 
Ok let me get down to your level and reply to your last paragraph: My daddy is bigger than your daddy 
Now that we are done with that, would you please point out me to where in my post this one or any other post for that matter I say: "Empire should be 100% safe" or "We should be able to afk it in our pink robes and only stop to hug each other" I do believe the simple point of my DISCUSSION was that "losing" a ship to concord and getting fully reimbursed for it, well it's not really a loss now is it.
Now, what exactly could possibly be my insecurity, lol .. uhmm its a forum fellow, a forum about a game in fact, chill maybe?
To wrap it up, I also never claimed to be e-smart I believe, well in fact, English is not even my first language, and on the forums, I am, because, bored at work, I is... Yoda lol
So if you claiming to be uber e-smart, and have bigger e-brain At least use a spell and grammar check before you make such claims
E-stupidy, passing back on to you, I am.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
EP0CH
Black Sun Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.22 16:33:00 -
[426]
 Quote:
Even a five man escort cannot save a freighter from a gank squad, also each person you bring cuts into your already slim profit margin. Beyond 2 escorts you may as well run missions.
A two man escort is more than sufficient running in ships that are using remote shield and armour repairer modules and drones. We've identified that the criminal act can only happen on the jump-in side of the gate provided the pilot doesn't do something stupid like AFK hauling, and given that the freighter warps so slowly it is simple enough for the escort to get ahead of the freighter. Every time it decloaks, the escort puts it's remote repairing capabilities on the freighter and you'll spoil many a suicide attacker's day, as they generally have the act calculated down to the last hitpoint - a single rep cycle would be enough to foil them.
You see? That didn't take a an Einstein or a Maxwell to figure out, it's completely within the mechanics and solves the issue entirely. Given that most sensible freighter pilots will use a web ship anyway to reduce their travel time significantly, they are effectively flying with an escort anyway - now that escort just has to use remote repairing capabilities.
Someone above posted that freighters should be given slots - whilst I don't agree with the numbers they suggested, I do feel it would be prudent to give them something. I would suggest a single low slot, allowing the greedy to fit a cargo expander and the sage to fit a damage control.
Hardpoint Rigs |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.22 16:54:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Quote:
Even a five man escort cannot save a freighter from a gank squad, also each person you bring cuts into your already slim profit margin. Beyond 2 escorts you may as well run missions.
A two man escort is more than sufficient running in ships that are using remote shield and armour repairer modules and drones. We've identified that the criminal act can only happen on the jump-in side of the gate provided the pilot doesn't do something stupid like AFK hauling, and given that the freighter warps so slowly it is simple enough for the escort to get ahead of the freighter. Every time it decloaks, the escort puts it's remote repairing capabilities on the freighter and you'll spoil many a suicide attacker's day, as they generally have the act calculated down to the last hitpoint - a single rep cycle would be enough to foil them.
You see? That didn't take a an Einstein or a Maxwell to figure out, it's completely within the mechanics and solves the issue entirely. Given that most sensible freighter pilots will use a web ship anyway to reduce their travel time significantly, they are effectively flying with an escort anyway - now that escort just has to use remote repairing capabilities.
Someone above posted that freighters should be given slots - whilst I don't agree with the numbers they suggested, I do feel it would be prudent to give them something. I would suggest a single low slot, allowing the greedy to fit a cargo expander and the sage to fit a damage control.
I've seen freighters being repped by a logistics ship and 4 BS go down to gankers. I didn't pull the 5 man number out of my ass, I've seen it happen. All you require are a few more Dominix, you can afford to throw 30 Domi's at it per billions worth of cargo you expect to retrieve if your doing it for the lulz and just want to break even, 20 per billion if you want to make reasonable profit depending on how much traffic there is in the trade hub your targeting.
Also webbing to improve time to warp was fixed. Not to mention if you have a two man escort you must ensure 90mill/h on your route to ensure the three of you make equal money to mission running. That excludes the possibility of losing a ship... ever, or of having another pilot arrive ahead of you and fill the order, or of having the market shift after delivery, or of... well you get the idea. It's possible to retain a two man escort, but it's pointless, risky, and expensive.
In summary; a single rep cycle isn't going to mean squat against a well prepared gank team and pilots tend not to make the 250mill/h that would be needed to cover a respectable escort or losses and retain a profit.
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Ginelle
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Posted - 2007.09.22 18:19:00 -
[428]
Long thread, looking at some of the comments on various threads reveals its all much of a muchness, so heres my thoughts on it as if it actually matters. Anyway, one of my chars got ganked a few weeks ago, semi afk hauling in blockade runner. Maybe 500/600 mil isk of stuff blown up by two harbringers. Totally and utterly my own fault for not taking steps appropriate
Despite losing a significant amount of stuff to it, I totally do not sign this frankly ridiculous attempt to try and remove suicide ganking from the game and stand behind the system as it is now. Even the neuts and anti-drone changes to Concord were too pretty lame and just a kneejerk reaction to the utterly reprehensible attitude that enough whinging and posting rubbish on these forums will influence game design.
the scary thing is sometimes it seems to and the heart of the game will slowly but surely be snipped away until we're playing in happy fun land and that isn't eve.
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Megadon
Caldari
Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.22 18:20:00 -
[429]
The ganks must continue and with more enthusiasm than ever.
It is only when people see the futility of anything but destruction in this game that real change can come about.
It is only when all things lay in waste that building anew can begin.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
EP0CH
Black Sun Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.22 18:57:00 -
[430]
Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 22/09/2007 19:02:07
Quote:
Also webbing to improve time to warp was fixed.
Funny, it worked just fine for us last night...
Quote:
In summary; a single rep cycle isn't going to mean squat against a well prepared gank team and pilots tend not to make the 250mill/h that would be needed to cover a respectable escort or losses and retain a profit.
I think you're full of unmentionable. The phrase "proof or STFU" would seem to be appropriate here...
Hardpoint Rigs |
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Ackaroth
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.22 20:12:00 -
[431]
Pilots who go afk shouldn't still be able to make money (i.e. their profit, which is in their cargohold, moving from A to B without them doing any real work.) Thus, there is a risk involved, and some casualties. If you are going to make money while your away from your keyboard, I should be able to make money while your away too.
Autopilot for afk haulers is just a legal macro imho. Should you be defending macro miners now? They go afk and make money...
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Gaia Thorn
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.22 20:20:00 -
[432]
Ever think about using a cmd ship pilot with cmdmods on it ?
Higher resist can do alot for the freighter.
And if the remove high sec ganking they can just run on hello kitty mode on the server cause then we truely have become it.
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.22 21:28:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Zachstar
If you take such issue why not get into "Gank-4-lolpwned" and deal damage to the lazys?
Because it's stupid. Like you.
Whine whine whine whine cry.
ps. not an exploit
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2007.09.22 22:59:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Ilvan
Originally by: Zachstar
If you take such issue why not get into "Gank-4-lolpwned" and deal damage to the lazys?
Because it's stupid. Like you.
Whine whine whine whine cry.
ps. not an exploit
Wow... Worried that I might actually be causing change? Afraid of the power of patience and diligence in getting something changed for the better? Or am I threatening your massive gank profits? Which is it?
Directly and Indirectly "Gank-4-bank" in hisec is 100 percent, grade A exploit. The methods of removing "Gank-4-bank" and encouraging "Gank-4-lolpwned" are simple.
Concord removes or blows up loot from victims of criminals it blows up. To "Discourage criminal activity" as they will say when they do it.
Insurance null and void when you are destroyed by concord.
Could even leave the insurance alone if you dont want a complete nerf. Just have the loot removed/blown and the problem is solved.
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Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.22 23:08:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Red Desire
From a Eve perspective, Concord is only a punitive force, it punishes those who are violent unprovoked ...
CCP wants it this way, as a balance, you can kill in empire but you will loose your ship.
Be punished means lose ISK not gain ISK. Gankers are not punished if they have more and more ISK in the wallet after each hauler gank.
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Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.22 23:13:00 -
[436]
Originally by: SisterBliss
Originally by: Ridley Scot
Edited by: Ridley Scot on 22/09/2007 05:03:36
Edited by: Ridley Scot on 22/09/2007 05:02:56
Originally by: Araya Meiteselle
Why in the bloody name of god would you not invite a fleet of remote repping Domi's to escort you ?
I must say this is the best one yet, even better then "avoid certain high sec gates". I could almost see it, haulers flying all over high sec with fleets of Domis following for protection  Is that what we should do as protection from ore thiefs as well?
What is you problem with the sound advice of avoiding get which you have said know get camped. Your journey may now take 3 or 4 jumps more to avoid the trouble spots, its hardy the end of the world.
If you too lazy to take any defensive action then you deserved to get ganked.
There are certain gates and systems that are camped by the high sec gankers, that you just cant avoid unless you are ready to take adittional 30 or jumps and even then you have to go thru some other gates that are camped as well as the one you are trying to not go thru.High sec gankers know that and thats why they camp them.
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Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.22 23:19:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Sendraks
Edited by: Sendraks on 22/09/2007 12:20:04
Problem 1)
People in crappy tech 1 haulers with expensive cargo losing their ships to hi-sec gankers. The ganking team usually consists of an expendable dps vessel and a hauler to take the loot away. Tech 1 haulers are easily destroyed by these vessels, not to mention feathers and a mild breeze.
Solutions to 1)
Fly a tech 2 hauler. They are easy to train for and not very expensive. Fitted properly they can tank an assault long enough for Concord to arrive or evade enemy fire completely. If you are unsure how to do this look at the other forums.
Don't fly afk
If attacked, don''t warp to the next gate/station en route, warp to an object that requires least alignement.
Have an escort.
Have a scout.
Problem 2)
Freighters getting ganked in hi-sec. These are big slow vessels and require a lot of dps to take down. Freighters cannot be tanked.
Solution to 2).
Get an escort consisting of both combat and logistics ships. The former kill the attackers, the latter repair the freighter. ALso see other solutions to problem 1.
Conclusion: No method is fool proof, but then Eve is a game where 100% safety is never guaranteed anywhere.
There are no counter-arguments to the above which I have seen, as everything amounts to players who "can't be bothered" to break out of their solo mentality and accept that Eve is a game where teamwork is required.
Asking CCP to fix this is laziness. The solutions are above. They are not hard. This IS the simple solution.
The purpose of Concord is prevent protracted assaults on players in empire, especially new players, by PvPers. Concord does this. Concord serves no other purpose. Don't ask for one.
*Clarification* I do not pirate. Never have. I don't hide behind alts. I am potentially as much a victim to hi-sec gankers as anyone else. However, I choose not to be a victim. I take steps to protect myself. I don't expect CCP to do it for me.
What a bunch of bs. It just proves that you are actually talking about something you dont have a clue. Industrial or Transport, tech 1 or tech 2, it really makes no difference when it comes to ganking one, other then a number of ships used. Look at the S******dly killboard, you will see they gank Industrial with 1 Myrmidon and they kill Transport with 2. How does that increase the chance for the hauler to survive with his stuff or increase the risk for gankers?
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Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.22 23:22:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
CONCORD is there to punish, not protect.
The moment carebears realize the difference is the moment these whine threads end.
Jesus. I don't suicide gank. I've never suicide ganked. I'm not a pirate. Yet, for whatever reason, I was able to figure out that this is a PVP game, and that being able to be attacked in high sec space meant that, eventually, I WOULD BE ATTACKED IN HIGH SEC SPACE.
Yet another whine thread. Please go away.
You dont get punished when you suicide your ship, you get to loot with your alt and in fact you get rewarded for doing this so stop repeating that Concord is actually punishing a ganker, its just not true.
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Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.22 23:26:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: Bo Bojangles
Have Concord immediately confiscate the surviving loot for pickup by the wronged party at the nearest station.
What police organization wouldn't?
I like it, no official war, no official looting rights.
War declaration is supposed to be the mechanic that makes Hi-sec PvP area, insurance is not. As it stands you can do a lot more harm to a corp without a wardec than you can with one... somehow that strikes me as mildly dumb.
I agree that insurance shouldn't be paid out either but I doubt that changing insurance would actually fix the problem. The freighter pilot with 3 bill in cargo may only be making 50-100mil profit/h for his (carefully planned and market dependent) run but the people who gank him are getting around 2 bill to share between them after covering uninsured losses with no risk and no real planning (I sawd it in jita or I herd it on teh forums doesn't count as clever planning).
Sorry to say it but there is no place in Eve that is not about pvp. This is a competitive game built around risk vs reward. It has always been that way and I sure hope it will always be that way. What are you guys trying to do? Turn this into a second WoW ? Today it will be nerfing ganking in "secure" (lol) space. Who knows what people will whine about tomorrow. Maybe they will want insurance for POSes or something? The game was designed to be a dark, cold and damp place. People started to play it because it was unforgiving and your own success is dependend on your play style (cleverness etc).
About concord: Concord is out to punish you AFTER you have done a bad deed. Live with it. Concord is not the police but a contracted mercenary force to punish. Understand that there is simply no protection even in >0.5 space.
About insurance: Keep insurance the way it is. If the insurance company does not pay for criminal activities in faction space, why should they do it in lawless 0.0 / lowsec? The insurances in eve do not care about good or bad or morals. They are only out to profit like everyone else from the stupidity of others. Stop trying to draw parallels to our world.
As long as you consider ganking haulers a PVP. Is there anything more lame then high sec hauler ganking really?
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Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.22 23:32:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Ginelle
Long thread, looking at some of the comments on various threads reveals its all much of a muchness, so heres my thoughts on it as if it actually matters. Anyway, one of my chars got ganked a few weeks ago, semi afk hauling in blockade runner. Maybe 500/600 mil isk of stuff blown up by two harbringers. Totally and utterly my own fault for not taking steps appropriate
Despite losing a significant amount of stuff to it, I totally do not sign this frankly ridiculous attempt to try and remove suicide ganking from the game and stand behind the system as it is now. Even the neuts and anti-drone changes to Concord were too pretty lame and just a kneejerk reaction to the utterly reprehensible attitude that enough whinging and posting rubbish on these forums will influence game design.
the scary thing is sometimes it seems to and the heart of the game will slowly but surely be snipped away until we're playing in happy fun land and that isn't eve.
You sir are a liar.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
EP0CH
Black Sun Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.22 23:53:00 -
[441]
Quote:
Directly and Indirectly "Gank-4-bank" in hisec is 100 percent, grade A exploit. The methods of removing "Gank-4-bank" and encouraging "Gank-4-lolpwned" are simple.
If it's an exploit, petition it. Otherwise (and I hate saying this) STFU! You keep dipping back into this thread, presumably to bump it, and declare that suicide attacks are an exploit when they are not. and when you have been shown countless times that they are not.
I, and I'm sure many others, are sick of seeing you post the same tired argument and same flawed ideas that you did earlier in this thread. Bring something fresh, or leave it well alone. Your arguments and suggestions have been refuted time and time again.
Hardpoint Rigs |
Zachstar
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Posted - 2007.09.23 00:43:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
If it's an exploit, petition it. Otherwise (and I hate saying this) STFU! You keep dipping back into this thread, presumably to bump it, and declare that suicide attacks are an exploit when they are not. and when you have been shown countless times that they are not.
If you are going to get rude and desperate to keep this in place (Likely because you are making outrageous amounts of money doing it. Am I wrong? AM I?) Then you need not visit this topic. No need to get your blood pressure up and act foolish.
Leave the crap out and keep civil please. Desperation and rudeness will not win this round.
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
I, and I'm sure many others, are sick of seeing you post the same tired argument and same flawed ideas that you did earlier in this thread. Bring something fresh, or leave it well alone. Your arguments and suggestions have been refuted time and time again.
No no and no no no. I care not what you are sick of. I believe in my point of view and others do as well. Got a problem? Too bad!
And no my arguments have not been refuted in the least bit. Mainly insulted by those desperate to keep the "Gank-4-bank" system that fills their wallets with exploit wealth and riches.
Do you realize by doing what you just did you only empower my views and feed the views towards you and the other gankers? You were doing a bit better earlier.
Keep civil and take the crap elseware. Don't like it? Then can I have your stuffz? (I loved that line used on another topic)
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.23 00:44:00 -
[443]
ok now no one else post, he can only bump it once a day or they will lock it
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Zachstar
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Posted - 2007.09.23 00:54:00 -
[444]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
ok now no one else post, he can only bump it once a day or they will lock it
Do you realize that you have just attempted to gag this topic because a viewpoint that isn't matching yours has been shown?
Doing such is outrageous and just shows how desperate things are getting! Trying to influence the forum in order to try to get the points hidden away and locked is grounds for a ban if you ask me.
I do NOT BUMP this topic. I explain my points clearly and keep away from the insults and crap. However it seems I got QUITE a few people scared silly and wanting this topic silenced before something happens that will affect them I guess.
This really is a terrible situation.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.23 00:57:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Zachstar
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
ok now no one else post, he can only bump it once a day or they will lock it
Do you realize that you have just attempted to gag this topic because a viewpoint that isn't matching yours has been shown?
This really is a terrible situation.
actually thats putting words in my mouth, im attempting to gag the topic because you are a hair brained troll with very little intelligent or productive commentary to speak of
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Zachstar
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Posted - 2007.09.23 01:04:00 -
[446]
Edited by: Zachstar on 23/09/2007 01:05:25
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Originally by: Zachstar
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
ok now no one else post, he can only bump it once a day or they will lock it
Do you realize that you have just attempted to gag this topic because a viewpoint that isn't matching yours has been shown?
This really is a terrible situation.
actually thats putting words in my mouth, im attempting to gag the topic because you are a hair brained troll with very little intelligent or productive commentary to speak of
Wow! So if I express my viewpoint without stooping to the level of insults and desperation that makes me a troll?
Suggesting concord blow up the victims loot to prevent alts from getting it without having to deal with the consequences as they approach makes me a mindless troll?
Yall are acting very rude and desperate and I suggest you stop this mess and get back to the civil debate. This isn't working very well for yall.
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.23 01:18:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Zachstar
Wow... Worried that I might actually be causing change? Afraid of the power of patience and diligence in getting something changed for the better? Or am I threatening your massive gank profits? Which is it?
I'd be worried if I actually suicide ganked.
Quote:
Directly and Indirectly "Gank-4-bank" in hisec is 100 percent, grade A exploit. The methods of removing "Gank-4-bank" and encouraging "Gank-4-lolpwned" are simple.
No it isn't, you mewling pusbag. It's 100% allowed and within the rules. The only 'exploit' is if someone somehow avoids being killed by CONCORD after provoking a response.
"Gank-4-lolpwned" is stupid, and you know it.
Quote:
Concord removes or blows up loot from victims of criminals it blows up. To "Discourage criminal activity" as they will say when they do it.
Insurance null and void when you are destroyed by concord.
I can agree on the no insurance on CONCORD death; not that it matters to people like you, because the minute that gets implemented you'll be whining about something else.
Quote:
Could even leave the insurance alone if you dont want a complete nerf. Just have the loot removed/blown and the problem is solved.
Do that and you might as well just have guns disabled in high-sec unless you're locking a war target or an NPC.
But wait, that's what you want, isn't it?
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2007.09.23 01:18:00 -
[448]
I find all fifteen pages of this topic rather amusing, honestly. It might be legal with current game mechanics, it might be allowed (because anything you can get away with in Eve is legal), but only a fool or someone profiting from the current situation would argue that it's working as intended.
I would suggest you take a random survey of 100 people off the street but it'd take too damn long to explain it to them.
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2007.09.23 01:24:00 -
[449]
Again let me state that when you let the insults and the crap fly I will not waste my time to debate. (Time better spent in EVE) Get civil and turn this into a debate again and I will spend the time to debate with you. If my suggestion is so terrible wont CCP notice that and not implement it? Why have the insults and crap? Unless you think there is a shot they will believe me and change it which will remove the loot and ruin everything for yall I guess. Why not debate civil?
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.23 01:34:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Zachstar
Again let me state that when you let the insults and the crap fly I will not waste my time to debate. (Time better spent in EVE) Get civil and turn this into a debate again and I will spend the time to debate with you. If my suggestion is so terrible wont CCP notice that and not implement it? Why have the insults and crap? Unless you think there is a shot they will believe me and change it which will remove the loot and ruin everything for yall I guess. Why not debate civil?
How's this for civil: GTFO and DIAF
You don't want debate, you want empire space to be a huggy fluffy bunny garden where bad things never happen unless you click a little box allowing them to happen. You want WoW PVE server in space. You want Feelings Online. You want everything this game is not.
In closing, I hate you.
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