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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Farham
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:30:00 -
[61]
No offense but Motherships are not anywhere near as difficult to build as you think. The main problem is having safe space to do it in.
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Deitre Cibrus
Defile. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:31:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Masta Killa And then in a year bob alliance will have 20 titans, mc will have 10, AAA will have 5 etc.
You'll jump into someone's space to find a fight and the first ship you see drops a cyno and you get DD'ed.
Fleet fights will just be who DD's the other fleet first... Oh no wait, fleet fights are like that ALREADY.
I'm sure by then our devs will have slapped themselves on the forehead and realized that they've ruined Eve.
Titans = SWG's Jedis anyone?
Thankfully pirates of the burning sea has kinda open pvp, maybe they'll even have a joining offer for "eve refugees" when Eve has been sufficiently ruined by everyone having titans.
So true -----------
Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread.
What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre It's missing the goat!- Tirg Cowbell! -Scyd Gold gold, baby -Sahwoolo |
DarkVipper
Minmatar STK Scientific Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:45:00 -
[63]
Capital NOS anyone ? |
Moonlight Express
Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:46:00 -
[64]
So let me get this strait. ItÆs OK to bring 1K+ people to a system and crash the node, but the only weapon that can counter that (titan) is not OK? Or how about deploying 10 L POSes without any risk whatsoever to take over a system without firing a shot is also OK? Maybe if you are going to whine about titans, you should also whine for the pilot that deploys a POS is in danger for as long as the POS is being deployed and fueled like a cyno field. Maybe that would prevent POS spamming and taking space without fighting for it.
So until POS and Blob warfare is changed, the titan counter is needed imo. All the whiners that donÆt like it, well, can I have your stuff?
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William DeMeo
Gallente Serial Killers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:48:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr There is not way anyone can win anything, ever. Even if you add 'no jumping for 10 minutes'.
If any titan is ever in trouble one of the others just jumps in and DD'd whatever is causing the problem. That one misses too? How about the third, fourth, fifth? Oh and its been and hour, the first can DD again.
Even if you made it once per day they would just never use them till they absolutly need it or have your fleet pinned.
DD's are the single most stupid feature ever to make it into Eve. Titans were supposed to be moving stations, not weapons of mass destruction.
CCP you've succesfully broken your game.
can i have ur stuff?????? Yarr |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:49:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Fubarski
Originally by: Dark Shikari A capital ship fleet can easily kill a titan if the titan is rooted for 10, 20, 30 minutes. This will force whoever owns the titan to keep its own capital fleet within a short distance in case a titan gets attacked. This will vastly limit the range and power projection abilities of their titans.
All that does is perpetuate the continuous move to caps and supercaps.
Honestly I don't think non-capital-ships can be expected to take out a titan simply due to the DD.
I do agree that titans should not be able to cloak, however.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: James Lyrus Let me be the first to welcome our new BoB overlords... (wait, didn't I do this in a goony thread the other day...)
Even if BoB built 10 of them, that still doesn't make titans easy or cheap to build. I mean, seriously, the number of components involved, especially if you acutally used haulers to move 'em rather than freighters... that alone's some serious effort.
Motherships and Titans, _are_ difficult, and expensive to build. Cranking them out? Well, I'm impressed. I mean, consider for a moment, what kind of level of income that actually implies?
Titans need a little work still, but they're still not even remotely cost effective.
Considering them exploiting the bugged blood raider complexes for quite some time that income is a non-factor.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:06:00 -
[68]
Personally, I'm curious to see what a Titan vs. Titan duel will look like.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:08:00 -
[69]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 03/05/2007 15:05:28
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: James Lyrus Let me be the first to welcome our new BoB overlords... (wait, didn't I do this in a goony thread the other day...)
Even if BoB built 10 of them, that still doesn't make titans easy or cheap to build. I mean, seriously, the number of components involved, especially if you acutally used haulers to move 'em rather than freighters... that alone's some serious effort.
Motherships and Titans, _are_ difficult, and expensive to build. Cranking them out? Well, I'm impressed. I mean, consider for a moment, what kind of level of income that actually implies?
Titans need a little work still, but they're still not even remotely cost effective.
Considering them exploiting the bugged blood raider complexes for quite some time that income is a non-factor.
I'm not going to comment on that, since I've no clue. But ... well, I don't think titans are an issue. I mean, serious, they're great for the ego, but you can outfit entire fleets for the same amount of cash.
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Alpine 69
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:10:00 -
[70]
Hmmm what if doomsday devices would be changed to large Energy shockwaves that would Neutralize the cap of everyone on grid and prevent warp for 30 seconds....
There would be a chance of survival but the titan-owning fleet could warp in and take out quite alot of battleships, but it would not be an insta-solo-pwn mobile anymore.....
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:12:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Moonlight Express So let me get this strait. ItÆs OK to bring 1K+ people to a system and crash the node, but the only weapon that can counter that (titan) is not OK? Or how about deploying 10 L POSes without any risk whatsoever to take over a system without firing a shot is also OK? Maybe if you are going to whine about titans, you should also whine for the pilot that deploys a POS is in danger for as long as the POS is being deployed and fueled like a cyno field. Maybe that would prevent POS spamming and taking space without fighting for it.
So until POS and Blob warfare is changed, the titan counter is needed imo. All the whiners that donÆt like it, well, can I have your stuff?
So you think it's okay for one player to have the ability to wipe out those 1000 players with the press of one button? At zero risk?
That sounds like a game I want to play! (as long as I'm the guy with the I-Win button) -------------------------------------
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SwindonBadger
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:20:00 -
[72]
Well like most people I was drooling over the thought of a titan and how cool it would be when they finally came out. That was untill I heard about the DD, great Idear for some movie but little harsh if you compare all the other ships in the game v classes bellow them or even 3 levels below them. Theres always been a good working method for making sure all classes can fight together. When it comes to a super capitol yes I think u need something worthy of the effort, they whole jump drive thing is one great thing on its own but everyone wants a big big gun and large bang, I still think a titian should have that but much more like the second deathstar, some super capitol weapon that can nail something it can track in one volly except super capitols where it would maybe take 1/3 of the super capitols health in one shot. This would enable the grand fleet fights people want and still would meen (rof of super weapon not 340 mins but not 10 seconds either) that the big alliances going after the super capitol rush a big advantage with titan numbers, ie u need 3 to one volly one.
People flamed bob pritty hard for the way the titans have been killed but really ,, logistically how can u kill one atm? if the pilot is even half brained with some guy waiting with a cyno.
either way I have faith that thing will work out, I might not like like alliance life but Id hate it for the people who have waited all game for these things to be in the grasp to suddenly loose out after all the hard work, and at the same time I hope they see or even miss the kind of fights that are possable withought the threat of dds.
o7 though for making them though, anyone who has sour grapes and hasnt spent a day deffending in 0.0 or attacking cant really imagine the effort needed let alone build cost to create such a monster.
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Moonlight Express
Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:21:00 -
[73]
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Moonlight Express So let me get this strait. ItÆs OK to bring 1K+ people to a system and crash the node, but the only weapon that can counter that (titan) is not OK? Or how about deploying 10 L POSes without any risk whatsoever to take over a system without firing a shot is also OK? Maybe if you are going to whine about titans, you should also whine for the pilot that deploys a POS is in danger for as long as the POS is being deployed and fueled like a cyno field. Maybe that would prevent POS spamming and taking space without fighting for it.
So until POS and Blob warfare is changed, the titan counter is needed imo. All the whiners that donÆt like it, well, can I have your stuff?
So you think it's okay for one player to have the ability to wipe out those 1000 players with the press of one button? At zero risk?
That sounds like a game I want to play! (as long as I'm the guy with the I-Win button)
Well, quite frankly, whatÆs stopping you from building yourself that button? It takes time, safe space and a lot of resources, but anyone can do it if they dedicate themselves, including you.
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MrLobster
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:23:00 -
[74]
Funny how this thread turned into another "Arent Titans too good".
Titans were made to stop blobing, but now we are getting titan Blobs. Can we have "Deathstars" now to deal with the Titan Blobs __________________________
My sig changes once work gets boring... yes it was a slow day today. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: James Lyrus Let me be the first to welcome our new BoB overlords... (wait, didn't I do this in a goony thread the other day...)
Even if BoB built 10 of them, that still doesn't make titans easy or cheap to build. I mean, seriously, the number of components involved, especially if you acutally used haulers to move 'em rather than freighters... that alone's some serious effort.
Motherships and Titans, _are_ difficult, and expensive to build. Cranking them out? Well, I'm impressed. I mean, consider for a moment, what kind of level of income that actually implies?
Titans need a little work still, but they're still not even remotely cost effective.
Considering them exploiting the bugged blood raider complexes for quite some time that income is a non-factor.
You mean the complexes that I reported as bugged and were removed from the game only a week after the bug was introduced, so that they've gotten zero income from them for weeks now, as compared to RA which is earning 60-100 billion a day from its complexes?
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:27:00 -
[76]
Rollback the hitpoint buff and get rid of the DD. Instead of using the "it kills blobs!" excuse improve the engine or release a new one so the 200 vs 200 (bs + support) fights that everyone really wants are viable.
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OSughhi
Romanian Army of ManiaCS
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:28:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Alpine 69 Hmmm what if doomsday devices would be changed to large Energy shockwaves that would Neutralize the cap of everyone on grid and prevent warp for 30 seconds....
There would be a chance of survival but the titan-owning fleet could warp in and take out quite alot of battleships, but it would not be an insta-solo-pwn mobile anymore.....
Or better. A DD will put offline all your modules. Yawn! No more kills only for titan pilot. Chance for everyone.
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Moonlight Express
Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:31:00 -
[78]
Originally by: welsh wizard Rollback the hitpoint buff and get rid of the DD. Instead of using the "it kills blobs!" excuse improve the engine or release a new one so the 200 vs 200 (bs + support) fights that everyone really wants are viable.
So you are going to limit coalition from bringing more then 200 to a fight? Cool. You are my hero.
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:33:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Moonlight Express Edited by: Moonlight Express on 03/05/2007 15:20:38
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Moonlight Express So let me get this strait. ItÆs OK to bring 1K+ people to a system and crash the node, but the only weapon that can counter that (titan) is not OK? Or how about deploying 10 L POSes without any risk whatsoever to take over a system without firing a shot is also OK? Maybe if you are going to whine about titans, you should also whine for the pilot that deploys a POS is in danger for as long as the POS is being deployed and fueled like a cyno field. Maybe that would prevent POS spamming and taking space without fighting for it.
So until POS and Blob warfare is changed, the titan counter is needed imo. All the whiners that donÆt like it, well, can I have your stuff?
So you think it's okay for one player to have the ability to wipe out those 1000 players with the press of one button? At zero risk?
That sounds like a game I want to play! (as long as I'm the guy with the I-Win button)
Well, quite frankly, whatÆs stopping you from building yourself that button? It takes time, safe space and a lot of resources, but anyone can do it if they dedicate themselves, including you. Unlike the effort of POS spamming that I mentiond above.
Well, number 1 is skill points, the same thing that will keep 95% of the EvE population from being a Titan pilot anytime in the near future. I suppose I could sit in a station for the next year while I train for it and watch the pretty explosions from the distant POS Capship blobs.
But TBH, I would be even more bored if I could fly one. It might be "neat" the first time or two, but sitting around for hours waiting to push a button is probably even more frustrating that sitting around for hours waiting to be hit with it.
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Brothersinarmsunite
Dusk nd Dawn
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:36:00 -
[80]
May I request a proof or shut up?
Bob titans:
shrike orange chowdown
pics or shusht.
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Ione Hunt
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:39:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Moonlight Express
Originally by: welsh wizard Rollback the hitpoint buff and get rid of the DD. Instead of using the "it kills blobs!" excuse improve the engine or release a new one so the 200 vs 200 (bs + support) fights that everyone really wants are viable.
So you are going to limit coalition from bringing more then 200 to a fight? Cool. You are my hero.
You have strong opinions about alliance warfare for someone who's not in an alliance
*Ione start throwing rotten tomatos at alts... _______________
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Pezzle
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:46:00 -
[82]
Someone has struck on part of the underlying problem. The Nodes (current technology) cannot handle several hundred players fighting it out. The game (mechanics/balance) cannot handle Titans, and by extension cap ship proliferation.
Since it is unfair and unrealistic to limit the number of players who can be in a location another solution must be found. Something that might work (would be wildly unpopular at first and cause some very strange game issues). Different servers.
Single server is fun, it gives you depth of numbers and all the things that go with it. It also leads to mega groups who run wild. The game is not ready for 1000 man fights, the game was not really ready for cap ships. Different servers splits up your population, the blobs are smaller. I bet there would be a number of people willing to start up on a server that was old tech. I bet a number of players would also be willing to transfer. *shrug*
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Ovale
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:48:00 -
[83]
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Moonlight Express So let me get this strait. ItÆs OK to bring 1K+ people to a system and crash the node, but the only weapon that can counter that (titan) is not OK? Or how about deploying 10 L POSes without any risk whatsoever to take over a system without firing a shot is also OK? Maybe if you are going to whine about titans, you should also whine for the pilot that deploys a POS is in danger for as long as the POS is being deployed and fueled like a cyno field. Maybe that would prevent POS spamming and taking space without fighting for it.
So until POS and Blob warfare is changed, the titan counter is needed imo. All the whiners that donÆt like it, well, can I have your stuff?
So you think it's okay for one player to have the ability to wipe out those 1000 players with the press of one button? At zero risk?
That sounds like a game I want to play! (as long as I'm the guy with the I-Win button)
Yep, perfectly fine. It's one game mechanic that counters another. There is no more merit to using node killing blob numbers than there is to using a Titan to counter that game tactic. This is perfectly legitimate in my eyes. If you want to do that, you can. Start mining and training.
Titans are high end game content. They are there to give multi-year players something to shoot for. They rarely have any significance outside of the operations of large alliances. In my mind, they don't add anything more than the addition of carriers did. It forces changes of strategy and adds ulcers to the game experience of many pilots. That is a good thing.
The only mainstream use of a Titan I have heard of is Thug using his to gank in HED. That's a good thing because one of these days we will hear about that when we are in the mood for some sport. Thus the "little guys" have a chance at some fun with them.
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Freejax
Caldari Blue Zenith Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:48:00 -
[84]
I admit, I don't take part in Alliance warfare, but I remember reading a Dev Blog about being able to target specific ship parts (equipment) in the future.
With this in mind and thinking of Startrek; Cruisers and bigger ships could become dangerous to even a Titan (all target the Jump Drive).
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Fubarski
Caldari Centauri Project
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:52:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Honestly I don't think non-capital-ships can be expected to take out a titan simply due to the DD.
I do agree that titans should not be able to cloak, however.
While this is a great idea on paper, it only really "works" in Real time strategy games that last at most, a few hours.
It is demonstrably fatal for an MMO producer to introduce a mechanism by which advancement is halted to such an extent that it renders a player incapable of overcoming the obstacle.
That is what Titans, and to a large part, supercaps are. A new character in Eve who gravitates towards such a ship faces:
Two months learning training. Four Months Support Skill Training. 8-10 Months Direct-Ship Training.
1.2+ BILLION ISK for books alone.
And that leaves precisely nothing along the way, save Battleship 5 for actual ship flying.
I'm not denying that Titans aren't an accomplishment, nor am I stating that they need to get relegated to the role of "showpiece".
I do, however feel that they completely mitigate the PvP capability of younger players, while morphing the standard "blob" into... the same blob, but now all cap-ships.
There has to be a way out of it. I prefer the elegant solutions that kill two, three, and four birds with one stone.
Because continuing to move the end-game farther out of new players is going to drive off the recurring new blood an MMO needs to survive.
Fubar
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Mariko San
Saints Surrounded
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:53:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Mariko San on 03/05/2007 15:49:14
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: James Lyrus Let me be the first to welcome our new BoB overlords... (wait, didn't I do this in a goony thread the other day...)
Even if BoB built 10 of them, that still doesn't make titans easy or cheap to build. I mean, seriously, the number of components involved, especially if you acutally used haulers to move 'em rather than freighters... that alone's some serious effort.
Motherships and Titans, _are_ difficult, and expensive to build. Cranking them out? Well, I'm impressed. I mean, consider for a moment, what kind of level of income that actually implies?
Titans need a little work still, but they're still not even remotely cost effective.
Considering them exploiting the bugged blood raider complexes for quite some time that income is a non-factor.
You mean the complexes that I reported as bugged and were removed from the game only a week after the bug was introduced, so that they've gotten zero income from them for weeks now, as compared to RA which is earning 60-100 billion a day from its complexes?
Curious to know how many tens of billions of isk were made in the meantime or did you hand it all back as you knew they were bugged?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Pezzle Since it is unfair and unrealistic to limit the number of players who can be in a location...
But there is already a limit. 700 people at max in a system, not a single more. That was first visible when the coalition attacked the bob capital shipyard. Afterwards the alliance pointed to a remote dev blog where such a limit was mentioned once.
Obviously the limit is installed and working. So if you defend with 450 people you have almost already won. Because the other side can bring only 250 people then to that system, no matter what.
And I wouldn't know why such a limit should work for one system and one moment only and not for everyone else also. So, yes... we have that cap already.
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Pezzle
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:59:00 -
[88]
and I said that was unfair and unrealistic. You should not win encounters because of artificial limits (and the cap number of 700 still makes slideshow fights) I think my point stands.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.03 16:00:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Moonlight Express So let me get this strait. ItÆs OK to bring 1K+ people to a system and crash the node, but the only weapon that can counter that (titan) is not OK?
People aren't questioning the use of Titans as an anti-blob weapon. They are questioning the maximum-profit/zero-risk use of them, combined with the ability to field more than one on the battlefield.
I, for one, welcome our new AoE weapons. Blobs and the instant gankage they bring, are a pain in the arse.
But whatever happens, CCP aren't going to get over the old "peace through superior firepower" concept. We're already seeing people bring more and more capital ships to the party, what's to stop 100v100 capital battles in the future?
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.05.03 16:03:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Pezzle Someone has struck on part of the underlying problem. The Nodes (current technology) cannot handle several hundred players fighting it out. The game (mechanics/balance) cannot handle Titans, and by extension cap ship proliferation.
Since it is unfair and unrealistic to limit the number of players who can be in a location another solution must be found. Something that might work (would be wildly unpopular at first and cause some very strange game issues). Different servers.
Single server is fun, it gives you depth of numbers and all the things that go with it. It also leads to mega groups who run wild. The game is not ready for 1000 man fights, the game was not really ready for cap ships. Different servers splits up your population, the blobs are smaller. I bet there would be a number of people willing to start up on a server that was old tech. I bet a number of players would also be willing to transfer. *shrug*
Won't make one ounce of difference. The current technical limitation of EVE is that 1 solar system cannot span multiple processors. Until that limitation is overcome, or the code is made to run efficiently enough to handle everything we can throw at it on 1 node, it won't get any better.
The only way to improve it in the meantime, is to reduce load, and the only way to accomplish that is to reduce the number of objects in the solar system, primarily drones, rats, POS guns, and other AI-driven objects, in order to make room for more real players. -------------------------------------
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