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CCP Inc v. SomethingAwful LLC

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KeratinBoy	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Miriyana wtf, since when is CCP getting lawyers out? The relevant part from Arkanon's blog - The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack.
Through Actions CRICE Corporation Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:28:00 - [32] Originally by: KeratinBoy Originally by: Miriyana wtf, since when is CCP getting lawyers out? The relevant part from Arkanon's blog - The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack. That's a long way from saying they are going to sue. But at least that clarifies the situation, CCP is looking at legal action against the accusers. It's an empty threat though, considering CCP would have no case.
Dr Shameless Skull Soft Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:29:00 - [33] Edited by: Dr Shameless on 30/05/2007 18:28:04 it might end up with CCP employees being barred from entering US lol
Broska Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Through Actions Originally by: KeratinBoy Originally by: Miriyana wtf, since when is CCP getting lawyers out? The relevant part from Arkanon's blog - The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack. That's a long way from saying they are going to sue. But at least that clarifies the situation, CCP is looking at legal action against the accusers. It's an empty threat though, considering CCP would have no case. And your expert legal opinion and knowledge on this is? ------------------------------ Originally by: Tovarishch flying a Scorp into a fleet battle is like parking a pink moped in front of a biker bar - you will die... quickly.
Lyn Bunnions	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:32:00 - [35] This is bull**. If it wasn't bull the only court this would likely be fought in would be a US court. In a US jury court CCP would lose and probably be bankrupted by the penalties they were forced to pay. Therefore this is bull**. Nice troll though.
Through Actions CRICE Corporation Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:33:00 - [36] Edited by: Through Actions on 30/05/2007 18:33:35 Originally by: Broska Originally by: Through Actions Originally by: KeratinBoy Originally by: Miriyana wtf, since when is CCP getting lawyers out? The relevant part from Arkanon's blog - The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack. That's a long way from saying they are going to sue. But at least that clarifies the situation, CCP is looking at legal action against the accusers. It's an empty threat though, considering CCP would have no case. And your expert legal opinion and knowledge on this is? Equal to yours. I studied enough business law in college to know the basics of contract law, international law, and defamation lawsuits. In the United States such lawsuits are notoriously difficult to prosecute and usually end up hurting the company doing the suing. CCP may have more success in European courts where governments have less of a problem censoring their people, however in America and internationally it is extremely unlikely that CCP would get anything, including an injunction out of a lawsuit. EDIT: By the way, CCP knows this which is why this is an empty threat. They simply want to scare people away from damaging their brand, and for that I do not blame them.
Jesters Knight Eclipse Enterprises Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:35:00 - [37] Originally by: Lyn Bunnions This is bull**. If it wasn't bull the only court this would likely be fought in would be a US court. In a US jury court CCP would lose and probably be bankrupted by the penalties they were forced to pay. Therefore this is bull*. Nice troll though. not if they could prove it, and the legal system in the US is such that nobody would ever pay anything, it would take 20 years to sort out Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane* http://tinyurl.com/39y3wzSalvage Drone Skill
Through Actions CRICE Corporation Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Jesters Knight Originally by: Lyn Bunnions This is bull**. If it wasn't bull the only court this would likely be fought in would be a US court. In a US jury court CCP would lose and probably be bankrupted by the penalties they were forced to pay. Therefore this is bull**. Nice troll though. not if they could prove it, and the legal system in the US is such that nobody would ever pay anything, it would take 20 years to sort out Unfortunately you're right about that. In the US we don't have a "loser pays" system so you can sue till you're blue in the face on no merit cases and still not owe the other side anything. On the other hand attorney's fees are KILLER, so maintaining a lawsuit is equally challenging.
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:39:00 - [39] Originally by: KeratinBoy Originally by: Miriyana wtf, since when is CCP getting lawyers out? The relevant part from Arkanon's blog - The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack. Memorial Day in the US is a holiday in Iceland? 0.o
Nicorn Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:43:00 - [40] Edited by: Nicorn on 30/05/2007 18:42:17 Quote: CCP may have more success in European courts where governments have less of a problem censoring their people, however in America and internationally it is extremely unlikely that CCP would get anything, including an injunction out of a lawsuit. Witch governments are you referring to? Because it is most certenly not the danish government look at the "cartoon diplomatic crisis" There's a bodybag out there with that scudball's name on it, and I'm doing up the zip. Anyone who gets in my way gets a napalm enema. " - Lister, Polymorph - Red Dwarf

Zin Tal	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:43:00 - [41] Just curious (as I don't really care about BoB or GS) but couldn't the treadnaught that the Goons did be considered a DoS attack? Maybe that's the direction CCP is going? shrugs At any rate, it's probably not going anywhere...
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Sekket Memorial Day in the US is a holiday in Iceland? 0.o No, but Whit Monday is (the Monday after Pentecost). It is throughout most of Europe as well. _____________________________________________ Free the Oimmo One!
SPACE BEEZ Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Zin Tal Just curious (as I don't really care about BoB or GS) but couldn't the treadnaught that the Goons did be considered a DoS attack? No Your signature is inappropiate for these forums - Put it back again and have your signature locked - Kreul Intentions
Through Actions CRICE Corporation Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:48:00 - [44] Originally by: Nicorn Edited by: Nicorn on 30/05/2007 18:42:17 Quote: CCP may have more success in European courts where governments have less of a problem censoring their people, however in America and internationally it is extremely unlikely that CCP would get anything, including an injunction out of a lawsuit. Witch governments are you referring to? Because it is most certenly not the danish government look at the "cartoon diplomatic crisis" Personally I am aware of French and British laws which can be quite restrictive on freedom of speech if it is defaming of someone else.
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd ... once the people who own the game say "Here are 10 things that don't have much to do with any of your complaints but we're going to call you liars based on them and ignore what you were actually complaining about... So uhm, about those goalposts, did you say you wanted them 14 or 40 au apart now? Don't whine about what you really ment or get someone else to write a coherent open letter. People tried this line about unfair access to devs before and it got shot down because it is BS. Nevermind that any favoratism would still show in logs AND that all players have had equal access to the devs ears if they really wanted to. I'm just amazed at the level of personal hostility towards the people making this game. First people try to work the devs personal "pay" accounts out of the game at any cost and now you want CCP to tell them who they can and cannot communicate with at any time during their employment?! All this drama and so little evidence of anything... Insane is the word that comes to mind. Bring something new please. -- .sig apathy ftw
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:55:00 - [46] Quote: The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. LOL! CCP have induldged in tinfoil hattery. Looks like they squashed maybe 3 of the 5 complaints right out of the water though. SKUNK
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:56:00 - [47] Edited by: WhitePhantom on 30/05/2007 19:05:11 Edited by: WhitePhantom on 30/05/2007 19:02:30 Originally by: Dal Thrax Originally by: Cayloron You're funny. What are the goons going to sue for, they don't own anything. All of the digital assets are owned by CCP, and all real life money invested in game is in violation of the EULA. Since I started playing this game I've been keeping a list just for my own information. RICO (the Racketering Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act) tops the list but there are others (which tbh require a deeper understanding of sports and gambling law then I'm willing to put in without somebody paying me for it). Simply put it could be bad, really bad. Eve does no contain sports nor gambling, so does the RICO apply to Eve exactly? CCP does not offer gambling of any kind, other plays might offer it, but CCP could end that very easily if that was an issue that was brought up. Please provide proof how RICO effects CCP who is in another country. I really hope RICO isn't some screwed up American Act, because I really hate those organizations.... ** Edit I thought RICO was an Organization like RIAA.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:56:00 - [48] "You're funny. What are the goons going to sue for, they don't own anything. All of the digital assets are owned by CCP, and all real life money invested in game is in violation of the EULA." This is not true, since CCP actually encourages the use of buying GTC ( real money ) for trade for in game resources.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Through Actions Equal to yours. I studied enough business law in college to know the basics of contract law, international law, and defamation lawsuits. In the United States such lawsuits are notoriously difficult to prosecute and usually end up hurting the company doing the suing. CCP may have more success in European courts where governments have less of a problem censoring their people, however in America and internationally it is extremely unlikely that CCP would get anything, including an injunction out of a lawsuit. EDIT: By the way, CCP knows this which is why this is an empty threat. They simply want to scare people away from damaging their brand, and for that I do not blame them. Go back and check your law books. Defamation occurs when those committing the act do so: 1) Without a good faith belief in the truth of the statement; or 2) Without reasonable grounds for believing the truth of the statement; or 3) With a motive or willingness to vex, harass, annoy, or injure you; or 4) Is exaggerated or not fully or fairly stated; or 5) The result of a reckless investigation; or 6) Motivated by hatred or ill will towards you. Looks to me like Goons crossed the line several places. A callous disregard for the truth is enough. What's more, and here's the real kicker: - You do not have to prove damages in a defamation case as damages are assumed (so CCP need not figure out how many people left for instance to show a specific damage). - Each repetition of a defamatory remark is a new injury. This means that you can obtain damages for each time the defamatory statement is repeated. That last is a rough one...how many times did Goons post? 4,000? That makes 4,000 individual instances of defamation each considered a separate injury to CCP. As for Goons countersuing? I'd really like to see for what. Even if Devs were sitting in Jita spawning Titans for BOB and insta popping all other alliances' POS there is nothing illegal about that. It's their game. They own it. They can do what they like. It would be stupid of course but not illegal.
Agillious Gallente Inner Circle Helter-Skelter	Posted - 2007.05.30 18:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Through Actions Edited by: Through Actions on 30/05/2007 18:33:35 Originally by: Broska Originally by: Through Actions Originally by: KeratinBoy Originally by: Miriyana wtf, since when is CCP getting lawyers out? The relevant part from Arkanon's blog - The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack. That's a long way from saying they are going to sue. But at least that clarifies the situation, CCP is looking at legal action against the accusers. It's an empty threat though, considering CCP would have no case. And your expert legal opinion and knowledge on this is? Equal to yours. I studied enough business law in college to know the basics of contract law, international law, and defamation lawsuits. In the United States such lawsuits are notoriously difficult to prosecute and usually end up hurting the company doing the suing. CCP may have more success in European courts where governments have less of a problem censoring their people, however in America and internationally it is extremely unlikely that CCP would get anything, including an injunction out of a lawsuit. EDIT: By the way, CCP knows this which is why this is an empty threat. They simply want to scare people away from damaging their brand, and for that I do not blame them. I don't know... my own amateur law opinion seems to see more than a little cause for action. Namely, the fact that reports were sent to 3rd party news sites for one. Now if those news sites posted information without checking with CCP or doing their due diligence, than that may grounds for a Libel suit. It also comes down to whether or not CCP can construe the "threadnaught" as a DoS attack. Contrary to what SPACEBBEZ replied, if intent is proven (a la the post that directed GS members to threadnaught the forums) then there may be legal recourse in that as well. All in all. Arkanon took great care in not naming a entity that may or may not be the target of legal action. Which makes me wonder about all this conclusion jumping, and so-called threats. I mean really. If you read that quoted text from Arkanon, where does it explicitly state that CCP will do anything? No where. That lawsuit carpola was generated by the OP. MORE SHINY, PLEASE!!!

DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:00:00 - [51] Edited by: DubanFP on 30/05/2007 19:00:48 Originally by: Dev Blog Since last Friday, an unnamed corporation posted over 4000 times on EVE's message boards concerning these allegations THAT qualifies as a DoS(Denial of Service) attack. Which IS punishable by international law, and rightly so. This has nothing to do with the Eula, and i don't think it would be charged for slander. But the undeniable fact is it was a deliberate attempt to disrupt the EVE forums & game which qualifies as a DoS attack. Originally by: Dev Blog The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack. Basically nothing has been charged yet, and something awfull wouldn't be the one who was charged since they just host the site GS met at. No real penalty against them. In reality it would probebly be a handful of the perpetrators of this act that would get the Legal Ax. Even so just because they're having their Legal Resources look into what is qualifies as and the damages doesn't mean they are actually filing anything yet. ____________ DubanFP > where ever there is a player that's getting too rich, wherever there's an industrial with too much loot, wherever there is a noob with too much smack we'll be there...
SPACE BEEZ Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:00:00 - [52] Edited by: SPACE BEEZ on 30/05/2007 18:59:11 Originally by: Tractormech Look at it this way. A man buys groceries from the grocery store. One day he buys a steak. He eats the steak and is fine. Near a month later, he and the grocery store owner have a disagreement. The customer immediatley begins feigning sick saying it was the steak that made him life-threateningly ill. He goes on the live television telling all the grocery stores customers that shopping there will make you sick. He then gets 4000 of his buddies to picket outside said grocery store until they are cleared off by police. An investigation by police finds the man made it all up. What would happen? The customer would get his ass sued off by the store. Absolutely no difference in this case. That is the most convoluted and one of the worst analogies I have ever read. Your signature is inappropiate for these forums - Put it back again and have your signature locked - Kreul Intentions
Through Actions CRICE Corporation Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:01:00 - [53] Edited by: Through Actions on 30/05/2007 19:01:30 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Through Actions Equal to yours. I studied enough business law in college to know the basics of contract law, international law, and defamation lawsuits. In the United States such lawsuits are notoriously difficult to prosecute and usually end up hurting the company doing the suing. CCP may have more success in European courts where governments have less of a problem censoring their people, however in America and internationally it is extremely unlikely that CCP would get anything, including an injunction out of a lawsuit. EDIT: By the way, CCP knows this which is why this is an empty threat. They simply want to scare people away from damaging their brand, and for that I do not blame them. Go back and check your law books. Defamation occurs when those committing the act do so: 1) Without a good faith belief in the truth of the statement; or 2) Without reasonable grounds for believing the truth of the statement; or 3) With a motive or willingness to vex, harass, annoy, or injure you; or 4) Is exaggerated or not fully or fairly stated; or 5) The result of a reckless investigation; or 6) Motivated by hatred or ill will towards you. Looks to me like Goons crossed the line several places. A callous disregard for the truth is enough. What's more, and here's the real kicker: - You do not have to prove damages in a defamation case as damages are assumed (so CCP need not figure out how many people left for instance to show a specific damage). - Each repetition of a defamatory remark is a new injury. This means that you can obtain damages for each time the defamatory statement is repeated. That last is a rough one...how many times did Goons post? 4,000? That makes 4,000 individual instances of defamation each considered a separate injury to CCP. As for Goons countersuing? I'd really like to see for what. Even if Devs were sitting in Jita spawning Titans for BOB and insta popping all other alliances' POS there is nothing illegal about that. It's their game. They own it. They can do what they like. It would be stupid of course but not illegal. Bingo, "Without a good faith belief in the truth of the statement" how the hell does anyone prove that? Unless CCP can show the statements were false and malicious they have no case. If these laws were as straightforward as that Wal-Mart would be winning cases left and right. A callous disregard for the truth IS NOT ENOUGH. CCP would have to prove that the complainers knew their complaints were untrue, but even that does not matter. There is a little things called the first amendment which protects even the most outragous speech in the US.
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:01:00 - [54] Quote: First people try to work the devs personal "pay" accounts out of the game at any cost and now you want CCP to tell them who they can and cannot communicate with at any time during their employment?! Have you ever heard of a crime called insider trading? Look it up.
Through Actions CRICE Corporation Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:05:00 - [55] Originally by: Sekket Quote: First people try to work the devs personal "pay" accounts out of the game at any cost and now you want CCP to tell them who they can and cannot communicate with at any time during their employment?! Have you ever heard of a crime called insider trading? Look it up. Yes and that's not insider trading. Insider trading has only to do with securities such as stocks, not game assets. http://www.sec.gov/answers/insider.htm
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Tractormech Look at it this way. A man buys groceries from the grocery store. One day he buys a steak. He eats the steak and is fine. Near a month later, he and the grocery store owner have a disagreement. The customer immediatley begins feigning sick saying it was the steak that made him life-threateningly ill. He goes on the live television telling all the grocery stores customers that shopping there will make you sick. He then gets 4000 of his buddies to picket outside said grocery store until they are cleared off by police. An investigation by police finds the man made it all up. What would happen? The customer would get his ass sued off by the store. Absolutely no difference in this case. Best. Analogy. Ever. You sir have just described the whole thing in a nutshell. I was trying to think up something simular but in a political sense, but yours hits it right on the head. "No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai
Veng3ance Illicit Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Tractormech Look at it this way. A man buys groceries from the grocery store. One day he buys a steak. He eats the steak and is fine. Near a month later, he and the grocery store owner have a disagreement. The customer immediatley begins feigning sick saying it was the steak that made him life-threateningly ill. He goes on the live television telling all the grocery stores customers that shopping there will make you sick. He then gets 4000 of his buddies to picket outside said grocery store until they are cleared off by police. An investigation by police finds the man made it all up. What would happen? The customer would get his ass sued off by the store. Absolutely no difference in this case. qft
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:09:00 - [58] Edited by: Sekket on 30/05/2007 19:09:38 Originally by: Through Actions Yes and that's not insider trading. Insider trading has only to do with securities such as stocks, not game assets. http://www.sec.gov/answers/insider.htm Yes, but my point being, companies can and do contractually require their employees not to certain people of certain things. Take for example any NDA agreement. I've not yet seen any legal exemptions for "RL friends" in any NDA I've seen.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:09:00 - [59] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "You're funny. What are the goons going to sue for, they don't own anything. All of the digital assets are owned by CCP, and all real life money invested in game is in violation of the EULA." This is not true, since CCP actually encourages the use of buying GTC ( real money ) for trade for in game resources. What exactly is your point, besides being correct they do support buying GTC from a third party? Once you use the GTC its no longer your property, like Nanobotter Mk2 said, you don't own anything within the game. Every major MMO that has issues with people selling stuff, has given ownership of the objects within the game to themselfs.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.30 19:11:00 - [60] Goonfleet has more lawyers in it than any other real life company tbh. I await the outcome with popcorn ready.



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