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WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:12:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Through Actions
Originally by: Sekket
Quote:
First people try to work the devs personal "pay" accounts out of the game at any cost and now you want CCP to tell them who they can and cannot communicate with at any time during their employment?!
Have you ever heard of a crime called insider trading? Look it up.
Yes and that's not insider trading. Insider trading has only to do with securities such as stocks, not game assets. http://www.sec.gov/answers/insider.htm
I would like to add game assets we don't even know, and I would even call them "assets" since they are just alot of 1's and 0's made and owned by CCP themselfs.
Talk about a weak argument, insider trading, you have to be kidding me.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:12:00 -
[62]
Edited by: WhitePhantom on 30/05/2007 19:15:45
Originally by: Through Actions
Originally by: Sekket
Quote:
First people try to work the devs personal "pay" accounts out of the game at any cost and now you want CCP to tell them who they can and cannot communicate with at any time during their employment?!
Have you ever heard of a crime called insider trading? Look it up.
Yes and that's not insider trading. Insider trading has only to do with securities such as stocks, not game assets. http://www.sec.gov/answers/insider.htm
I would like to add game assets we don't even own, and I would even call them "assets" since they are just alot of 1's and 0's made and owned by CCP themselfs.
Talk about a weak argument, insider trading, you have to be kidding me.
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William Freeman
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:12:00 -
[63]
LMFAO. OMG, you all need to get a life. Maybe you can buy one.  |
DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
D-L
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:14:00 -
[64]
Originally by: William Freeman
LMFAO. OMG, you all need to get a life. Maybe you can buy one.
my offer is 500 million isk for the person with the best offer for this "life" thing i keep hearing about.
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DubanFP > where ever there is a player that's getting too rich, wherever there's an industrial with too much loot, wherever there is a noob with too much smack we'll be there... |
WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:17:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Sekket
Edited by: Sekket on 30/05/2007 19:09:38
Originally by: Through Actions
Yes and that's not insider trading. Insider trading has only to do with securities such as stocks, not game assets. http://www.sec.gov/answers/insider.htm
Yes, but my point being, companies can and do contractually require their employees not to certain people of certain things. Take for example any NDA agreement. I've not yet seen any legal exemptions for "RL friends" in any NDA I've seen.
Show us CCP's contract for their staff, and I will entertain your thought process, otherwise drop it alright?
We don't know is "policy" and "contract points" for the staff members. A policy can easily be changed within a coperation setting. For example they can request nobody smoke in the building. Since the building is owned by the coperation, and the staff members can go outside to smoke, their rights ( which ever rights are applied and granted ) are not being imposed on.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Through Actions
A callous disregard for the truth IS NOT ENOUGH. CCP would have to prove that the complainers knew their complaints were untrue, but even that does not matter. There is a little things called the first amendment which protects even the most outragous speech in the US.
A callous disregard for the truth is enough. Think about it...
If you come to me and say, "CCP XXXX is a thief and a murderer" whether I believe you is beside the point. If I then publish that I would be guilty of defamation because I did not have sufficient basis to accept such a damaging claim and I did nothing further to determine the veracity of that claim.
Free speech is not a blanket defense. The courts have placed many restrictions on it (the famous quote being, "You cannot shout 'fire' in a crowded theater").
And besides, look at my list again. They need only be found guilty of one of the items in the list. I think 3, 4, 5 & 6 would be a good place to start.
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Sekket
Caldari
White-Noise
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:23:00 -
[67]
Originally by: WhitePhantom
Show us CCP's contract for their staff, and I will entertain your thought process, otherwise drop it alright?
Excellent point. What exactly is in CCP's employment agreement regarding contact with the playerbase?
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:27:00 -
[68]
... 
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:30:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sekket
Yes, but my point being, companies can and do contractually require their employees not to certain people of certain things. Take for example any NDA agreement. I've not yet seen any legal exemptions for "RL friends" in any NDA I've seen.
Whatever agreements CCP Employees sign in no way gives an outsider legal recourse if an employee breaks that agreement. The agreement is between CCP and its employees...no one else. Generally the agreement spells out conditions that will get the employee sacked in a heartbeat if they break it. In no way does that grant an outsider grounds to sue CCP.
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prsr
Gallente
JuBa Corp
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:32:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Sekket
Have you ever heard of a crime called insider trading? Look it up.
What i know about insider trading is that it happens all the time and practically nobody gets caught because there are no decent records kept and jailing influential rich people is bad for business.
What i know about eve is that they have logs of everything that anyone does and Arkanon heading up the IA department. He seems to be on top of things even if people are out to ruin his long weekend.
--
.sig apathy ftw |
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prsr
Gallente
JuBa Corp
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:38:00 -
[71]
Edited by: prsr on 30/05/2007 19:37:39
Originally by: Sekket
Yes, but my point being, companies can and do contractually require their employees not to certain people of certain things. Take for example any NDA agreement. I've not yet seen any legal exemptions for "RL friends" in any NDA I've seen.
Well then, I suppose you got your work cut out for you then. CCP has al their employees and volunteers sign nda's.
Instead of trying to score points "accusing" devs of having chats (ohnoes) with some of the playerbase, you need to show ***WHAT*** it was they talked about and how that adversely affected the rest of the playerbase.
Good luck.
--
.sig apathy ftw |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:41:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sekket
Have you ever heard of a crime called insider trading? Look it up.
Is CCP a publically traded company? I don't see them listed on the NASDAQ, AMEX, NYSE or OTCBB exchanges but I may be searching on the wrong name.
If they are not publically traded then there is no such thing as insider trading.
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annoing
Amarr
MisFunk Inc.
Frontline.
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:43:00 -
[73]
Edited by: annoing on 30/05/2007 19:42:14
Damn i'm running out cheese extra quick for all the whine in this thread. Damn damn damn, I need to give myself cheese for whining about the whining 
hoisted by my own petard!
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:47:00 -
[74]
I personally love it when people threaten legal action against someone over the internet. It is one of those age old things that has been around forums and BBCs since the net started. Almost as bad as the "My brother did it" line.
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CaosSpinner
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:49:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Buxaroo
Originally by: Tractormech
Look at it this way.
A man buys groceries from the grocery store. One day he buys a steak. He eats the steak and is fine.
Near a month later, he and the grocery store owner have a disagreement. The customer immediatley begins feigning sick saying it was the steak that made him life-threateningly ill. He goes on the live television telling all the grocery stores customers that shopping there will make you sick. He then gets 4000 of his buddies to picket outside said grocery store until they are cleared off by police. An investigation by police finds the man made it all up.
What would happen? The customer would get his ass sued off by the store.
Absolutely no difference in this case.
Best.
Analogy.
Ever.
You sir have just described the whole thing in a nutshell.
I was trying to think up something simular but in a political sense, but yours hits it right on the head.
Actually no, the scenario described in not the case and does not come close to resembling the case.
First off a lot of the posters obviously do not know the history of the game. One poster did post one incident where a GM dropped a T2 BPO after being destroyed (why was he carrying a BPO?) but their have been lots of other incidents where Devs/GM gave items to ôfriendsö and no this was from 2003 to 2005 so the latest ôknownö incidents are just SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for Dev/GM involvement in EVE (not to mention the ISDN/Volunteers incidents)
So a corrected scenario would be
A guy goes to a butcher and buys a package of steaks, while there he sees another guy come in and that guy orders a package of steaks. The butcher puts 4 T-bones in wax paper and charges the guy $14. As he walks out he notices that the butcher not only gives the second guy 4 t-bones (he also mentions that these are the fresh ones) but adds 10 pounds of baby back ribs. Well this goes on for over four years and the second guy is always getting a bonus package for the same $14 has the first guy. So finally the first guy asks, ôHey what do I do to get a bones package like the other guy?ö To which the butcher replies ôI like him and if you donÆt stop questioning me I will sue you in any case if you donÆt like it donÆt come backö
As far as what the OP posted, the real question is does CCP really want the player base to actually know of everything that has happened because when things start to come out the amount will be.... Well as some one else has said I am getting my big gulp and popcorn as this will be the best drama on.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.30 19:57:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
I personally love it when people threaten legal action against someone over the internet. It is one of those age old things that has been around forums and BBCs since the net started. Almost as bad as the "My brother did it" line.
as pointed out CCP has only said that they are looking into what legal recourse may be available to them. What Goons did was sufficient that there may indeed be cause for them to worry about that. Of course the decision to persue legal remedies is a complex one. Even if there is a good case to be made there can be many reasons to not bother. That said I'd wager my Abaddon that internally CCP is justifiably miffed about this and prepared to go to some extra lengths with a lawsuit if the law and other considerations are sufficiently in their favor.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:02:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CaosSpinner
Actually no, the scenario described in not the case and does not come close to resembling the case.
Actually the scenario you quoted is much better than yours and closer to the case at hand.
And realize that the butcher is not committing any crime or breach of contract to give someone else steaks for free. Sure it might make other customers unhappy but the butcher is free to do that. When the upset customers come back and make false claims regarding the butcher and his store it is they who are in trouble.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:07:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Goonfleet has more lawyers in it than any other real life company tbh. I await the outcome with popcorn ready.
And people wonder why lawyers are generally disliked.
//Maya |
Kyozoku
Mutiny.
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:12:00 -
[79]
so uh did i win?
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:16:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Goonfleet has more lawyers in it than any other real life company tbh. I await the outcome with popcorn ready.
Not very smart ones, apparently.
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Rex Dangerstein
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:16:00 -
[81]
You guys do realize that CCP can't really do anything to SA right?
Here are some raisins:
1.) CCp is in the frozen north, not based in America so they would have to bring up feloy charges(which won't happen, because Iceland's cybercrime laws only allow for fines) just to get a case in court.
2.) Since Iceland has no seperation of church and state any case they would make againist an American institution or persons can be instantly thrown out of court by claiming the first amendment.
Law is fun
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Leonard Darwin
Rosewood Productions
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
as pointed out CCP has only said that they are looking into what legal recourse may be available to them. What Goons did was sufficient that there may indeed be cause for them to worry about that.
But who are they going to go after? For the forum thing, Goons, but I doubt that'd hold up or be even worth the court costs. As for the news media and reputation, who gets the blame? The Goons may have submitted the story, but they are not the ones who published it on slashdot, ign, etc. They can't go after just everyone that dugg it to get it to the top of digg.com - I can guarantee many, many non-goonies dug it.
If they do pull the lawyer card, like you said, it's going to be a very complex decision. Maybe the lawyers in the crowd can answer this, but isn't the media held liable in the account of unfounded allegations for picking up the story in the first place?
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Pvt Sammich
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:21:00 -
[83]
The big problem that you are going to run into is that GoonFleet isn't part of Somethingawful LLC. The user base of somethingawful forums decided to branch off and play a game they took the name "Goon" with them since they would only allow forums users to join corp.
Good luck with any legal action on that.
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Rex Dangerstein
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:22:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Rex Dangerstein on 30/05/2007 20:21:50
Originally by: Pvt Sammich
The big problem that you are going to run into is that GoonFleet isn't part of Somethingawful LLC. The user base of somethingawful forums decided to branch off and play a game they took the name "Goon" with them since they would only allow forums users to join corp.
Good luck with any legal action on that.
Pvt Sammich please sue....
...my heart
In other news, this topic is stupid.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
D-L
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:23:00 -
[85]
Edited by: DubanFP on 30/05/2007 20:23:00
people who claim "first amendment" are idiots. The first amendment only protects against the Government. It has no meaning when saying stuff to a non- US government entity. That and if charges were filed it would be for DoS attack since it interrupted the forums, not for what they said.
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DubanFP > where ever there is a player that's getting too rich, wherever there's an industrial with too much loot, wherever there is a noob with too much smack we'll be there... |
Rex Dangerstein
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:26:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Rex Dangerstein on 30/05/2007 20:25:33
Originally by: DubanFP
people who claim "first amendment" are idiots. The first amendment only protects against the Government.
Actually, in legal-lawyering doubleplus goodspeak, If the country bringing you to trial has no seperation, you can claim it againist your beliefs and call the case biased againist you.
Unless the entity is in fact based in Iceland.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari
The Short Bus Squad
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:28:00 -
[87]
Originally by: CCP Arkanon
The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack.
CCP - think that one over a minute.
That does nothing but embolden people, and make more rise up against you.
Take a hint: let it die.
Calling your lawyers then TELLING your customers that your calling your lawyers on them is just going to insight them against you.
Not to mention you have virtually no case.
TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:37:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Loyal Servant
CCP - think that one over a minute.
That does nothing but embolden people, and make more rise up against you.
Take a hint: let it die.
Calling your lawyers then TELLING your customers that your calling your lawyers on them is just going to insight them against you.
Not to mention you have virtually no case.
Eh? I'm ready to start a CCP Legal Aid Fund for them. I hope they do find sufficient reason to go after these people. It is getting tiresome where people are emboldened by internet anonymity and feel their actions have no repercussions or consequence. Not even counting their reputations a lot of people work for CCP. Apparently it does not concern these people that they are messing with other people's livelihoods and doing so in a callous and craven manner.
If they are so convinced of CCP bad intetions and despise company so much then they are free to cancel their accounts.
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Erik Pathfinder
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Loyal Servant
CCP - think that one over a minute.
That does nothing but embolden people, and make more rise up against you.
Take a hint: let it die.
Calling your lawyers then TELLING your customers that your calling your lawyers on them is just going to insight them against you.
Not to mention you have virtually no case.
Eh? I'm ready to start a CCP Legal Aid Fund for them. I hope they do find sufficient reason to go after these people. It is getting tiresome where people are emboldened by internet anonymity and feel their actions have no repercussions or consequence. Not even counting their reputations a lot of people work for CCP. Apparently it does not concern these people that they are messing with other people's livelihoods and doing so in a callous and craven manner.
If they are so convinced of CCP bad intetions and despise company so much then they are free to cancel their accounts.
QFT
Not to mention messing with other player's fun, ie the game we play.
Stop trying to kill EVE, just go away if you don't like it, or hell, make a better game and I will play that instead!
---------------
"Run free little vermin, the city is yours!" - Quimby
Creator of The Correct Dread(tm) sig |
Loyal Servant
Caldari
The Short Bus Squad
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.05.30 20:40:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Loyal Servant
CCP - think that one over a minute.
That does nothing but embolden people, and make more rise up against you.
Take a hint: let it die.
Calling your lawyers then TELLING your customers that your calling your lawyers on them is just going to insight them against you.
Not to mention you have virtually no case.
Eh? I'm ready to start a CCP Legal Aid Fund for them. I hope they do find sufficient reason to go after these people. It is getting tiresome where people are emboldened by internet anonymity and feel their actions have no repercussions or consequence. Not even counting their reputations a lot of people work for CCP. Apparently it does not concern these people that they are messing with other people's livelihoods and doing so in a callous and craven manner.
If they are so convinced of CCP bad intetions and despise company so much then they are free to cancel their accounts.
Your right - but this is a slippery slope.
What good is a legal fund and they DO pursue legal actions, if they have no customers left?
It generates too much negative publicity for them and it would be a poor business decision.
Headlines: Company sues customers
Not good...
TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
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