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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.31 13:54:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Noluck Ned on 31/05/2007 13:52:59
Forget it.
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Pvt Sammich
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.31 14:32:00 -
[212]
They can win back trust just stop being so shady.
 Quote:
Either CCP employees need to remove all BoB contacts and place them on ignore or CCP should publish the MSN contacts for all members to be able to have a direct line to the developers.
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hUssmann
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.31 14:57:00 -
[213]
Welcome to troll wars.
It's about time CCP enforced the CAOD policy on alt posting to more sections of the forum.
Ginger Magician > You are merely an effective ganker of haulers who runs at the first sign of combat. |
Aleranie
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Posted - 2007.05.31 15:25:00 -
[214]
There might be a lawsuit, there might not.
IF there is is a lawsuit, its going to be for the denial-of-service type attack, and not for defamation.
If they try to so sue for libel or defamation, they have to prove not only that it was intended to harm(thats really easy in this case), but they also have to prove the allegations were false, and that the culprit knew they were false.
All goons would have to do is point towards the t20 incident, and they have a rather good way to argue they had reason to believe the allegations might be true. Not to mention that goons could ask for discovery on all sorts of ccp internal happenings to try and prove the allegations *might* be true.
AS for the ddos type of attack, they'd still have to prove that they actually suffered harm, and the server failed because of the attack, and not them taking it down to avoid the discussion.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.31 15:36:00 -
[215]
Hum no, they don't have to prove that the server "failed" because of it, the sheer mount of post is enough.
And they can use defamation to sue. Whether the perpetrator believe it's right or not has no influence at all. It' not because you believe something you have the right to proclaim it everywhere. The only problem for this would be to find the ringleaders and getting the international law to work, which is probably more hassle than it's worth.
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.31 16:03:00 -
[216]
Well, CCP presumably has the ringleaders' billing information and access to lawyers in said ringleaders' countries of origin.
The libel laws do vary somewhat from country to country. Goon leaders in the UK are, if I remember UK libel law accurately at all, in hot water if CCP goes after them. In the US, it might be a bit harder due to a much higher standard for libel / defamation.
Not sure about that, though.
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Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.05.31 16:40:00 -
[217]
Actually.. that was not a dos attack.
A dos attack is ramping up requests for data.. Usually http, but could be a simple ping. A ddos is the same but from many different client machines. It is constructed to overload the serverĘs capacity to respond. The server starts spawning additional process to cope and eventually runs out of resource and locks.
That never happened actually. I was reading forums when it happened and the server did not show any appreciable impact to the multiple posts at all. The forums were shut down, not crashed but the site never went down for it did not fail. I would classify what happened as spam before a dos.
I think CCP has invested in quite a nice server cluster for it seems quite robust.
I would love to see it. It is a technological wonder in the way it hooks into live game data. Top notch equipment.. Nicely done CCP.
Anyway.. do carry on.. Interesting read this.
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lam0r
The Legion.
Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2007.06.01 13:37:00 -
[218]
I know EVE has had some severe lag issues since the last patch, the excuse for this was running on reduced capacity hardware. Since then I have not experienced any particular performance issues that would come from a DDOS attack. I don't think the two are related as there was some time between that event and those allegations arising... so where was this mysterious DDOS and why did none of us witness the aftermath? 
Verbal Diarrhoea
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lam0r
The Legion.
Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2007.06.01 13:51:00 -
[219]
Edited by: lam0r on 01/06/2007 13:51:33
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Well, CCP presumably has the ringleaders' billing information and access to lawyers in said ringleaders' countries of origin.
The libel laws do vary somewhat from country to country. Goon leaders in the UK are, if I remember UK libel law accurately at all, in hot water if CCP goes after them. In the US, it might be a bit harder due to a much higher standard for libel / defamation.
Not sure about that, though.
As far as I am aware there are very few libel cases that actually go fully through the courts (before a settlement) in the UK. Most will remember newspapers such as The Mirror reporting some false story about the odd celebrity here and there, but it's common place in our media. The noted exception being the BBC (Greg Dyke), but that was about the legitimacy of the war which we all know was a touchy subject!
What I would really like to ask is:
Did the reputation suffer? (Yes only a little though, there has been accusations of similar things in the past)
Did you lose any money? (Not really.. I can't see that thousands have closed accounts over this)
Does it severely affect the future of the company? (I really doubt it, unless CCP start sueing their customers :P)
Verbal Diarrhoea
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Zak Nefein
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:17:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Matroshka
Originally by: Buxaroo
Originally by: Tractormech
Look at it this way.
A man buys groceries from the grocery store. One day he buys a steak. He eats the steak and is fine.
Near a month later, he and the grocery store owner have a disagreement. The customer immediatley begins feigning sick saying it was the steak that made him life-threateningly ill. He goes on the live television telling all the grocery stores customers that shopping there will make you sick. He then gets 4000 of his buddies to picket outside said grocery store until they are cleared off by police. An investigation by police finds the man made it all up.
What would happen? The customer would get his ass sued off by the store.
Absolutely no difference in this case.
Best.
Analogy.
Ever.
You sir have just described the whole thing in a nutshell.
I was trying to think up something simular but in a political sense, but yours hits it right on the head.
The analogy only makes sense if the "police" are actually employees of the grocery store.
Indeed.
Instead of :-
An investigation by police finds the man made it all up.
You have :-
An investigation by the grocery store found no evidence of bad steak.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.01 15:36:00 -
[221]
nobody is suing anybody.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.06.01 15:38:00 -
[222]
Originally by: ry ry
nobody is suing anybody.
Goonfleet is suing something awful last I heard. 
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
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Posted - 2007.06.01 15:40:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Ediz Daxx on 01/06/2007 15:40:09
double post
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Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
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Posted - 2007.06.01 15:41:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: ry ry
nobody is suing anybody.
Goonfleet is suing something awful last I heard.
Really?
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Troubadour
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.07.10 22:01:00 -
[225]
I would not be surprised if CCP did end up taking some sort of legal action. What the goons did was malicious, premeditated, and targeted. It was aimed at trying to erase the credibility of CCP, a company whose business depends on it's customers trusting them to maintain their virtual world and remain unbiased in all in game political events. It would be one thing if these allegations were factual, or even real evidence of any bias or malicious behavior on the part of CCP employees, but they weren't. Looking at that long-winded "open-letter", there is nothing more then some implied bias and a sob story from some guy who got booted off ISD for what he thinks was a BoB guy being buddy buddy with a dev. The letter was designed not to show any truth, but just to make CCP look as bad as possible.
Why? Perhaps frustration from in game losses. Resentment over losing to BoB and the perceived game-abusing relationship between them and developers. It's funny that now, with the new post-patch sov mechanics and making offensive sov wars much harder for BoB and GS having some success holding them off, goons are not as quick to jump on the "OMG CCP AND BOB HAX US!!11" bandwagon. Anyway, there was plenty of motivation for this kind of attack, and forum raids and disinformation campaigns are something goons are familiar with. It doesn't matter if the allegations are true or not, damage was done. For many people in the gaming community, this story may of been the first time they heard of CCP and EVE-Online. A developer cheating or showing bias in it's MMO to one group over another is a big deal and made many gaming, computer, and even mainstream news outlets. I had a RL friend (who plays eq2, yick)call me up a few days after this "open letter" went out asking me, "Hey don't you play eve? What's up I heard the company that runs it is cheating or something." Forever will CCP and EVE be tainted in the minds of a lot of these people. It's much easier for people to buy into and keep believing outrageous lies then boring truths.
Anyway it turns out that all of the allegations of misconduct on the part of CCP were not true and the former-ISD had already been in question for previous events prior to his bumping incident. In the official GOON response to CCP's debunking of their claims, they have this:
Quote:
What is disliked about the game is the perceived bias in the game. Even if no bias is present the actions of your developers and of various community members creates the perception of bias and it is this perception that you need to correct.
No, they really don't. Cooking up disinformation campaigns and imagery and then turning around and then going "Everyone thinks you are biased CCP, what are you going to do about it?" is exactly what was done. As all of the allegations were false and aimed to harm CCP's public image, which it did in a very demonstrative way, it fits the legal definition of slander as well.
I think that in the future, goons should be more careful about their actions.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2007.07.10 22:12:00 -
[226]
???... Necro much? Why now?..
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2007.07.10 22:21:00 -
[227]
I'll see your gravedigging and raise you a t20.
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Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.10 22:23:00 -
[228]
wao necro, bad troubie 
Anyway Id be plenty happy if CCP sued SA as those ******* *******s **** me the hell off, anyone who knows anything about the internet knows this isnt the first time SA boardmonkeys have tried to take a **** on someone to mark their territory, or whatever. But unless Kyanka or someone else who works for the company that owns SA.com was actively involved in the libel, which I highly doubt, they dont really have any sort of viable case against anyone except the individual ******s who perpetrated it and if SA LLC were sued theyd just claim they have no control over what their members say (a perfectly valid arguement if you ask me). And suing the individuals would accomplish the same thing that RIAA's continual suits against 20 year old music pirates has, which is absolutely nothing.
The best solution here is for everyone to realize what Goonfleet really is and ignore them. If they dont get their lulz theyll leave, its that simple.
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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