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CCP Inc v. SomethingAwful LLC

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Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft Mech Ops Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:53:00 - [121] I lol at this topic.. WTS: T2 Tinfoil hats. for those that didn't get the hint, consulting your legal advisors has nothing to do with actually filing a lawsuit against them, it merely means they call their legal advisors and go "Look, we got problem A, we like to solve it using sollution B, but ofc we can't nuke them all.. give us the 'proper' sollution D (since C always fails.))". If you, especially if you're a large company, want to respond to things like the beemobile, you better make sure you double-checked every step with your legal team, before you start breaking your own rules and policies (f.ex: what would have happened if ark didn't censor certain names in those images? ), or worse, you start breaking laws. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook [Datacore - Mechanical Engineering] x 125
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:06:00 - [122] So where is the actual thing about a suing b? cause i cant find it. Originally by: Marquis Dean Yeah I know. But I was in the shower.
Wardog 1 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:08:00 - [123] Eve and the forums where so much more fun back in 2004/5 and before
JoCool Caldari MASS	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:09:00 - [124] Omg. Some kid screamed on the streets _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:23:00 - [125] Wilst I don't want to get caught up in the ifs and buts of this incident, I do trust CCP, I do believe they have been honest and open with their customers, but thats besides the point. All these people saying things won't stand up in a US court of law, you do realise that Iceland isn't in the US right? When you sign up to play Eve you sign a contract under Icelandic law, I don't know if it would stand up or even if CCP intend to sue for libel or slander or DOS or anything like that. Legal action was mentioned however. My limited knowledge of internet law (which really needs beefing up fast IMO) is that you would be looking at a law suit where the crime was commited, either Iceland as thats (potentially) where there might be a breach of contract, and CCP operates under Icelandic law. Or perhaps British law because I believe (correct me if I am wrong) thats where the servers are held, as such "where the crime was commited".... I may be wrong, but all your protests about US law, and freedom of speech etc really don't stand up. Anyway I was just passing though, I can't wait for all this crap to blow over.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:30:00 - [126] Originally by: Mogrin You need to add in the part where some of the stuff is actually true. You can pretend it didn't happen on message forums but you can't do that in court. It happened for real. All of the other suspicions might be real too, CCP would have to prove they weren't, in court. So you see its not so simple as saying "WRONG!" in big red bold uppercase in a courtroom. Uhmm...no. It is not incumbent upon CCP to prove what they did not do. Indeed you cannot prove a negative. It is up to Goons to prove that they had reasonable cause to believe the allegations were true. It is ok if the allegations turn out to be false as long as due diligence was taken in coming to the conclusion that what they claimed was true. It is obvious they did no such thing.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:33:00 - [127] Originally by: Imperius Blackheart All these people saying things won't stand up in a US court of law, you do realise that Iceland isn't in the US right? When you sign up to play Eve you sign a contract under Icelandic law, I don't know if it would stand up or even if CCP intend to sue for libel or slander or DOS or anything like that. Legal action was mentioned however. Pretty sure if CCP wanted to sue US citizens they would have to do so in the US. Even if they could sue in Iceland they cannot compel the attendance of the defendants and even if they won they would have no way to enforce the ruling (unless one of these people moved to Iceland). I believe the EULA bit about making Iceland the venue for a legal dispute is if you want to sue them.
NoghriViR	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:38:00 - [128] I would more then welcome a lawsuit from CCP against us. We would be able to use the courts to request the server logs and do you really think CCP would want that to happen?
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:39:00 - [129] Edited by: Imperius Blackheart on 30/05/2007 22:38:33 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Imperius Blackheart All these people saying things won't stand up in a US court of law, you do realise that Iceland isn't in the US right? When you sign up to play Eve you sign a contract under Icelandic law, I don't know if it would stand up or even if CCP intend to sue for libel or slander or DOS or anything like that. Legal action was mentioned however. Pretty sure if CCP wanted to sue US citizens they would have to do so in the US. Even if they could sue in Iceland they cannot compel the attendance of the defendants and even if they won they would have no way to enforce the ruling (unless one of these people moved to Iceland). I believe the EULA bit about making Iceland the venue for a legal dispute is if you want to sue them. If you commit a crime in a country I believe you are usually tried and held accountable in that country and as such liable for turning up in that country. And it would depend if it is criminal or civil law as to how serious the host nation would take it. I am pretty sure as a British citizen if I commited a DOS attack on a US based business website I would be in court like a shot.
Mogrin Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:43:00 - [130] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h It is up to Goons to prove that they had reasonable cause to believe the allegations were true. Well then, thats easy enough. And CCP can thank themselves for that. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:48:00 - [131] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 30/05/2007 22:48:47 Originally by: Imperius Blackheart I am pretty sure as a British citizen if I commited a DOS attack on a US based business website I would be in court like a shot. Currently going through the courts - google "Gary McKinnon" NoghriViR, the evidence for the DoS attack? Well yes, the forum access IP logs would be provided. Your point? (And they'd take action against individuals, Goonswarm is not even a legal fiction). //Maya
This Pilot posts for honor	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:54:00 - [132] Originally by: Tractormech Look at it this way. A man buys groceries from the grocery store. One day he buys a steak. He eats the steak and is fine. Near a month later, he and the grocery store owner have a disagreement. The customer immediatley begins feigning sick saying it was the steak that made him life-threateningly ill. He goes on the live television telling all the grocery stores customers that shopping there will make you sick. He then gets 4000 of his buddies to picket outside said grocery store until they are cleared off by police. An investigation by police finds the man made it all up. What would happen? The customer would get his ass sued off by the store. Absolutely no difference in this case. If goonfleet was made entirely of black people they would win the case against the store hands down.
Anille Kole Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:57:00 - [133] I honestly find it hilarious that people will value the opinion of a group known to come from literally the troll center of the internet, and who have openly lied, exploited, cheated, propaganda-spammed, and just been goons cough in general, over the game company who actually has something at stake when something like this comes up. Always kept the faith, CCP! Although it probably helps that I've been anti-Goon in the past... oh, and the whole "common sense" thing. Still, I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish. Honestly, all I've ever seen from them are attempts to swarm something, and upon failure, swarm the next best thing. Likely, they failed gloriously to kill off BoB, so they attacked CCP and BoB quasi-out-of-game to try to make up for that. Hopefully the last few bastions of stupid will die out over the weekend, and the ocean of tinfoil hats will stop blinding everyone.
This Pilot posts for honor	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:02:00 - [134] Originally by: Anille Kole I honestly find it hilarious that people will value the opinion of a group known to come from literally the troll center of the internet, and who have openly lied, exploited, cheated, propaganda-spammed, and just been goons cough in general, over the game company who actually has something at stake when something like this comes up. Always kept the faith, CCP! Although it probably helps that I've been anti-Goon in the past... oh, and the whole "common sense" thing. Still, I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish. Honestly, all I've ever seen from them are attempts to swarm something, and upon failure, swarm the next best thing. Likely, they failed gloriously to kill off BoB, so they attacked CCP and BoB quasi-out-of-game to try to make up for that. Hopefully the last few bastions of stupid will die out over the weekend, and the ocean of tinfoil hats will stop blinding everyone. The first accusations were dismissed and silenced until the raging horde of goons and others made it impossible to cover up. The subsequent investigation showed that yes indeed a CCP employee was in fact cheating, by his own admission. So, when a new accusation was dismissed and silenced involving some of the same entities from the first accusation, who would you believe? Logic dictates you assume the action was repeated.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:04:00 - [135] Cliff notes?
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:06:00 - [136] This Pilot, it would behove you to read the actual sequence of events. //Maya
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:06:00 - [137] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Cliff notes? "Blah Blah Blah Internet Spaceship Blah Blah" ^ That about covers it. Oh and theres about 50ish people acting like wikipedia trained lawyers. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Admiral Feelgood Aionios Diadochi The Makhai	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:07:00 - [138] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Cliff notes? "Blah Blah Blah Internet Spaceship Blah Blah" ^ That about covers it. Oh and theres about 50ish people acting like wikipedia trained lawyers. I don't think wikipedia would admit to having some of these guys read the site.
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:08:00 - [139] Edited by: Farham on 30/05/2007 23:08:33 Legal action exposes people to Discovery. Somehow I don't think anyone on either side wants discovery. This is a non-issue and it was just stupid for Kerion to mention "legal resources". Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot
Red Crown Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:10:00 - [140] In a nutshell, correct me if I'm wrong... 1. CCP is sueing SomethingAwful in retaliation for the threadnought 2. lawyerswarm haven't brakes 3. So, do we have a c/d on this from CCP? - "The Mains Created the alts They rebelled They look...and feel...human Some are programmed to think they are human There are many alts. And they have a plan." - Forumstar Galactica
This Pilot posts for honor	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:13:00 - [141] Originally by: Maya Rkell This Pilot, it would behove you to read the actual sequence of events. You mean the sequence that goes: 1. T20 cheated 2. CCP finds out, keeps silent in house investigation out of the public eye. 3. People outside of CCP find out, discover items T20 spawned are still in possesion of in-game alliance. 4. People outside of CCP try to break the story, story gets summarily deleted. 5. Larger group of people break the story repeatedly until CCP is forced to acknowledge it. 6. CCP admits guilt on their employees part, employee issues apology, items spawned are removed from the game. 7. People outside of CCP find out another story, try to break the story, story gets summarily deleted. 8. Larger group of people break the story repeatedly until CCP is forced to acknowledge it. Sense a pattern here? Now, using your brain, what would you expect the outcome to be? CCP is all wine and roses?
Nevada Tan	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:17:00 - [142] Originally by: Farham Edited by: Farham on 30/05/2007 23:08:33 Legal action exposes people to Discovery. Somehow I don't think anyone on either side wants discovery. This is a non-issue and it was just stupid for Kerion to mention "legal resources". Yeah, exactly "We're suing you!" "Fine. Our lawyers say that we'll need copies of all your forums server logs, game server logs, meeting minutes, petition database, etc, etc. from the last X years. In triplicate. Any part or parts of that information may or may not be made available to the public as part of the court records"
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:19:00 - [143] Edited by: General Windypops on 30/05/2007 23:21:18 Interesting that Goonswarm seem to be glossing over the image spamming they were doing this morning. In just 5 minutes or so I saw posts abusing black people, images mocking the deceased in the 9/11 attacks and abusive posts about jewish people. I took screenshots, as I'm sure many others did. I think our little Bee friends forgot that in this game their forum names are linked to real world details like credit card numbers. In the UK at least, such images are considered illegal under racial hatred laws. I also have a screenshot of the new supposed 'CEO' of GS laughing it off as 'freedom of speech'. I would expect CCP, as a responsible company, to have forwarded this information to the relevant authorities as a matter of course.
Admiral Feelgood Aionios Diadochi The Makhai	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:22:00 - [144] Edited by: Admiral Feelgood on 30/05/2007 23:21:15 Originally by: General Windypops In just 5 minutes or so I saw posts abusing black people, images mocking the deceased in the 9/11 attacks and abusive posts about jewish people. I took screenshots, as I'm sure many others did. I forgot to take screenies that was a pretty funny .gif could you repost? tia Quote: In the UK at least, such images are considered illegal under racial hatred laws. Yeah that'll be pretty easy to get goons on, making inappropriate jokes on the internet I'm sure the british government is filling for extradition as I type this.
Ammoina University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:24:00 - [145] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 30/05/2007 23:19:20 Interesting that Goonswarm seem to be glossing over the image spamming they were doing this morning. In just 5 minutes or so I saw posts abusing black people, images mocking the deceased in the 9/11 attacks and abusive posts about jewish people. I took screenshots, as I'm sure many others did. I think our little Bee friends forgot that in this game their forum names are linked to real world details like credit card numbers. In the UK at least, such images are considered illegal under racial hatred laws. I also have a screenshot of the new supposed 'CEO' of GS laughing it off as 'freedom of speech'. Thankfully such images aren't illegal in the States. Like living in your fascist police state do you?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:30:00 - [146] I'm suing the goons for littering bob space with their wrecks
Anille Kole Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:38:00 - [147] Originally by: This Pilot Originally by: Anille Kole ... The first accusations were dismissed and silenced until the raging horde of goons and others made it impossible to cover up. The subsequent investigation showed that yes indeed a CCP employee was in fact cheating, by his own admission. So, when a new accusation was dismissed and silenced involving some of the same entities from the first accusation, who would you believe? Logic dictates you assume the action was repeated. Actually, I probably would've guessed it was one of two different scenarios: A) The dev did it to cheat. This would mean that he either had the support of half of CCP in doing so(to maintain the locks and petition control), or that he did it all by himself somehow. Not plausible, considering the scope of both scenarios, and that IA(and uncorrupted CCP members) would notice and try to root out the corruption in both cases. B) He didn't do it to cheat. This would mean that a petition asking about it would probably be deleted because 1) it's sorta silly to try to accuse a dev of joining a corporation for 15 minutes to cheat, when they have access to the same sort of information just because they're devs, and 2) they probably figured that the corp members who petitioned it would've explained it. Now, if this starts flooding the forums, obviously it's going to get locked down, especially considering that CCP(and the dev) would've had no idea that there was anything wrong with the scenario, since as far as they knew, it was resolved. I imagine there'd be a similar response if you started a bunch of threads seriously accusing TomB of raping your cat. You're welcome to try it, though. Also, judging by your borderline racism, and clear propaganda repetition of the same point, I'm assuming you're a Goon alt for now. Oh, and the post history of supporting GoonSwarm is pretty important too.
Ammoina University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:47:00 - [148] Edited by: Ammoina on 30/05/2007 23:45:41 Originally by: Anille Kole B) He didn't do it to cheat. This would mean that a petition asking about it would probably be deleted because 1) it's sorta silly to try to accuse a dev of joining a corporation for 15 minutes to cheat, when they have access to the same sort of information just because they're devs, and 2) they probably figured that the corp members who petitioned it would've explained it. Now, if this starts flooding the forums, obviously it's going to get locked down, especially considering that CCP(and the dev) would've had no idea that there was anything wrong with the scenario, since as far as they knew, it was resolved. I imagine there'd be a similar response if you started a bunch of threads seriously accusing TomB of raping your cat. You're welcome to try it, though. Yeah because when the CEO of a corp sends a petition asking 'um why was a DEV in my corp?' its clearly an accusation of the DEV cheating.
Anille Kole Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:53:00 - [149] If you have a transcript of the petition, that'd be nice. However, as far as I know, there is none, so the wording is entirely up for question. If I knew one way or the other, I'd post to match, but I feel as though my wording was appropriate based on the general feel of the first wave of posting.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.30 23:58:00 - [150] Originally by: Nevada Tan Originally by: Farham Edited by: Farham on 30/05/2007 23:08:33 Legal action exposes people to Discovery. Somehow I don't think anyone on either side wants discovery. This is a non-issue and it was just stupid for Kerion to mention "legal resources". Yeah, exactly "We're suing you!" "Fine. Our lawyers say that we'll need copies of all your forums server logs, game server logs, meeting minutes, petition database, etc, etc. from the last X years. In triplicate. Any part or parts of that information may or may not be made available to the public as part of the court records" "Judge, the plaintif is going on a fishing expedition unrelated to the matter at hand, is not providing the proper..." See: SCO vs lots of people (http://www.groklaw.net/) You can't do that. Plus, they'd not be relevant to a DoS case. //Maya

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