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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
![Lee Bian Lee Bian](https://images.evetech.net/characters/804721277/portrait?size=64)
Lee Bian
Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.11 18:43:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lee Bian on 11/06/2007 18:42:46
Originally by: SamuraiJack CCP dont want to. Its an idea to warn ppl not to be idiotic however modding is somewhat hit and miss sometimes. Much like petitions... if consistant rules were followed then maybe it might work.
How would it be a bad thing if it showed the petitions being inconsistant? I mean that would be something to fix, and it would get players to be able to see if they are being treated unfairly. We're all after a good and fair game, and to be able to check if it is as fair as I want it to be would be pretty cool.
Also I want to laugh at the reasons people get banned over.
edit:
Originally by: SamuraiJack and that account sharing thing... was interesting to see who got banned... and who just got a warning...
touche no?
Please elaborate, I didn't read it.
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![SamuraiJack SamuraiJack](https://images.evetech.net/characters/943133314/portrait?size=64)
SamuraiJack
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.06.11 18:55:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lee Bian
How would it be a bad thing if it showed the petitions being inconsistant? I mean that would be something to fix, and it would get players to be able to see if they are being treated unfairly. We're all after a good and fair game, and to be able to check if it is as fair as I want it to be would be pretty cool.
Fair... thats a tough term to be using right now given the trust level round here. Yes it /should/ be. But things are not.
Quote: Also I want to laugh at the reasons people get banned over.
And thats why CCP wont.
Quote:
Originally by: SamuraiJack and that account sharing thing... was interesting to see who got banned... and who just got a warning...
touche no?
Please elaborate, I didn't read it.
hmm... certain ppl got ban/temps for sharing. Others got a warning. Without a breakdown from CCP (no fracking way will they) there is no total proof... but it did seam rather onesided shall we say?
And before the usual swarm arrives and says he's ex-ascn biased etc...
I have no problems with fighting a fair foe. And I've had a number of good fights. Some we won. Some we didnt.
What i have a problem with is a slanted table... which via various things round here are cropping up daily and tainting a damn good game.
I dont envy CCP. They have lost the trust and now have to regain it. Its like trusting a partner you caught in bed with another person. It will take time and some transparancy. As long as IA is given the remit and long arm of the law to enforce things to cut out this rot then EVE will be a good game. When you sit here and wonder if you are being played like a puppet on a string by godlike chars who you can do nothing against... when you should be relaxing and enjoying a game... its no wonder ppl quit.
People say its just a game. Eve is not. Years of work are buried in here. as a quick example ASCN had 13 outposts in feyth. put up wiht long hours of hauling logistics and group work. Now u can do it with a frieghter or two and a group of mates...
oh well... roll on Rev2... (take out the carrier nerf first!) SJ. CLS CEO, Valainloce Executor and Standings Director =-
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![Lee Bian Lee Bian](https://images.evetech.net/characters/804721277/portrait?size=64)
Lee Bian
Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: SamuraiJack hmm... certain ppl got ban/temps for sharing. Others got a warning. Without a breakdown from CCP (no fracking way will they) there is no total proof... but it did seam rather onesided shall we say?
Well, there you go. If that is true it's a good reason to actually have a list or something that makes warnings/bans public. Actually, even if it isn't true it's a good reason to have it, because it would remove doubt about things being unfair.
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![Barwinius Barwinius](https://images.evetech.net/characters/742329267/portrait?size=64)
Barwinius
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:19:00 -
[34]
Thank you for the transparency in an obviously difficult situation. |
![FireFoxx80 FireFoxx80](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1045747895/portrait?size=64)
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:22:00 -
[35]
I think the initial removal of this information, is only due to the rl sensitivity of some of the information held within.
The truth will come out sooner or later.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
![M'buku M'buku](https://images.evetech.net/characters/144574799/portrait?size=64)
M'buku
Minmatar Werda Fookarwii
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:38:00 -
[36]
Greetings. No personal information (real names or otherwise) was released on SHC. Furthermore, all related information posted to us has been removed permanently"
Regards M'buku Global Moderator For SHC
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![Slayton Ford Slayton Ford](https://images.evetech.net/characters/801549428/portrait?size=64)
Slayton Ford
Vindicate and Deliverance ASGARDIAN EMPIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:42:00 -
[37]
There is ample evidence of different (or even no) penalties for various players. For example, a leader of a major alliance posted RL info on Eve-O and was not banned. Others have been suspended or banned for just linking a eve related website in game.
By letting the players know who has been suspended/banned, the player base will then have the capability to evaluate if CCP has been fair in its punishements. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
![Fi T'Zeh Fi T'Zeh](https://images.evetech.net/characters/147692169/portrait?size=64)
Fi T'Zeh
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Slayton Ford There is ample evidence of different (or even no) penalties for various players. For example, a leader of a major alliance posted RL info on Eve-O and was not banned. Others have been suspended or banned for just linking a eve related website in game.
By letting the players know who has been suspended/banned, the player base will then have the capability to evaluate if CCP has been fair in its punishements.
And as all students of history know, mob rule has always led to flawless justice...
Having the information available and having the capability to make a judgement based on that information are two utterly separate things. ....
Playing EVE on easy mode since May 2003. |
![Dal Thrax Dal Thrax](https://images.evetech.net/characters/661105297/portrait?size=64)
Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP kieron This morning, an issue was brought to the attention of CCP staff that a third-party forum was the recipient of information provided by a member of the ISD Program. The volunteer posted a number of screenshots and then provided another player with the text of warnings and actions taken by CCP and Volunteer staff on a number of high-profile EVE community members. The leak then posted chat logs of the chat channel he was in, including his affected shock and outrage at these actions. His final act was to forward a large e-mail dump including private communication between team members, e-mails sent to the forum moderation team from community members, notifications of warnings and bans, and other legally protected and confidential communication. When this was brought to the attention of the Internal Affairs team, they rapidly investigated the situation and swiftly uncovered the leak. A short-time later, the volunteer was stripped of his ISD-related access, expelled from the volunteer program and permanently banned from EVE. Further investigations are ongoing to determine if the volunteer was acting on his own or with the assistance of other players and/or volunteers. Needless to say, the CCP staff involved in the investigation are thoroughly disgusted by the actions taken by this volunteer and dealt with this misconduct in what we feel is the most just and severe manner possible. This is the Volunteer Team's most severe breach of the Terms of Service and Non-Disclosure Agreement to date. Not only was this a betrayal of the volunteer team, but of the EVE community as a whole. Those involved with the management and administration of the volunteer program want the player base to know that any misconduct by a volunteer will be dealt with in the most severe manner possible. Finally, we are investigating a number of policy and information access changes with the intention of preventing further acts of this nature.
Hum need to go find out what got that guy so rilled. While I agree with CCP that such things are unexceptable I see two issues here:
1) The volunteers breach of the NDA and
2) The implications of whatever information was released.
Both need to be dealt with but as I havn't logged on to the appropriate sites to find the leak yet I can't comment on number 2. Hope this is a tempest in a teapot.
Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs:
1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a peaceful objective.
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![Raivi Raivi](https://images.evetech.net/characters/102216341/portrait?size=64)
Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dal Thrax
Originally by: CCP kieron This morning, an issue was brought to the attention of CCP staff that a third-party forum was the recipient of information provided by a member of the ISD Program. The volunteer posted a number of screenshots and then provided another player with the text of warnings and actions taken by CCP and Volunteer staff on a number of high-profile EVE community members. The leak then posted chat logs of the chat channel he was in, including his affected shock and outrage at these actions. His final act was to forward a large e-mail dump including private communication between team members, e-mails sent to the forum moderation team from community members, notifications of warnings and bans, and other legally protected and confidential communication. When this was brought to the attention of the Internal Affairs team, they rapidly investigated the situation and swiftly uncovered the leak. A short-time later, the volunteer was stripped of his ISD-related access, expelled from the volunteer program and permanently banned from EVE. Further investigations are ongoing to determine if the volunteer was acting on his own or with the assistance of other players and/or volunteers. Needless to say, the CCP staff involved in the investigation are thoroughly disgusted by the actions taken by this volunteer and dealt with this misconduct in what we feel is the most just and severe manner possible. This is the Volunteer Team's most severe breach of the Terms of Service and Non-Disclosure Agreement to date. Not only was this a betrayal of the volunteer team, but of the EVE community as a whole. Those involved with the management and administration of the volunteer program want the player base to know that any misconduct by a volunteer will be dealt with in the most severe manner possible. Finally, we are investigating a number of policy and information access changes with the intention of preventing further acts of this nature.
Hum need to go find out what got that guy so rilled. While I agree with CCP that such things are unexceptable I see two issues here:
1) The volunteers breach of the NDA and
2) The implications of whatever information was released.
Both need to be dealt with but as I havn't logged on to the appropriate sites to find the leak yet I can't comment on number 2. Hope this is a tempest in a teapot.
Dal
You won't find the leaks at the appropriate sites because both the information posted at SHC and the information posted at Kug (two different sets of information) were taken down by the respective sites. The fact that the e-mail dump was removed from Kug should give you a hint that it didn't have much 2) in it, it was just a lot of personal information that shouldn't be shared with the world.
Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum |
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![Sasakisan Sasakisan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/389423803/portrait?size=64)
Sasakisan
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:39:00 -
[41]
Now that CCP is in the big leagues, perhaps the volunteer program has outlived its usefulness. |
![Slayton Ford Slayton Ford](https://images.evetech.net/characters/801549428/portrait?size=64)
Slayton Ford
Vindicate and Deliverance ASGARDIAN EMPIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:49:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
And as all students of history know, mob rule has always led to flawless justice...
Having the information available and having the capability to make a judgement based on that information are two utterly separate things.
This wouldn't be mob rule at all but CCP being transparent in its dealings with the players. As it is now, there is no information available to make a proper judgement. So rather then there being facts to review (ie who was banned for what and for how long) all there is is rumor, conjecture and assumptions. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
![Takahashi Arran Takahashi Arran](https://images.evetech.net/characters/958549477/portrait?size=64)
Takahashi Arran
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
And as all students of history know, mob rule has always led to flawless justice...
Having the information available and having the capability to make a judgement based on that information are two utterly separate things.
As a student of history I completly agree. If Mittani held oveur's job we'ed all be screwed. And if there is one thing the logs showed me its that ISD have to put up with an UNBELIEVABLE amount of abuse, crapposting and general idiocy. the number of idiots who play eve is humongous. I can only imagine the GM's get it 10 times worse.
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![Aindrias Aindrias](https://images.evetech.net/characters/760307698/portrait?size=64)
Aindrias
Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2007.06.11 20:59:00 -
[44]
I think in this case the punishment should be at least a little death...
I'm
Just
Kidding...
No really..
See what you can do with Paintbrush? |
![Dave White Dave White](https://images.evetech.net/characters/310754411/portrait?size=64)
Dave White
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.11 21:40:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Dave White on 11/06/2007 21:38:56
Thank you for keeping us up to date.
Will the name of the offender stay hidden due to privacy issues?
CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard |
![Rhaegor Stormborn Rhaegor Stormborn](https://images.evetech.net/characters/971670584/portrait?size=64)
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.11 21:41:00 -
[46]
Hire professionals and quit letting immature volunteers do a half-assed job on yor behalf. This won't be the last time you will see this, especially in a game like Eve. Just wait until your retail box hits the shelf and Eve double or triples in population, it is going to keep getting worse and worse until CCP changes it policies. RISE Recruitment Thread
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![Xtreem Xtreem](https://images.evetech.net/characters/650467549/portrait?size=64)
Xtreem
Gallente Quechua Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 21:42:00 -
[47]
im just glad you found and stopped him, nice job
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![Rustok Rustok](https://images.evetech.net/characters/243852718/portrait?size=64)
Rustok
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2007.06.11 21:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Rustok on 11/06/2007 21:55:21 this is fkn fantasic...mean ive ****ed off alot of people in this game, dno how many times ive heard they are gona kill me in RL and now some ****er just posted alot of information out, wtf is some nutjob decides to come after somebody, CCP gona be held liable?
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![Namingway Namingway](https://images.evetech.net/characters/863010680/portrait?size=64)
Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:00:00 -
[49]
Since it was a mod, I say off with his hands.![Evil or Very Mad](/images/icon_evil.gif)
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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![beor oranes beor oranes](https://images.evetech.net/characters/795647733/portrait?size=64)
beor oranes
Caldari Furious Angels Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sasakisan Now that CCP is in the big leagues, perhaps the volunteer program has outlived its usefulness.
That would be sad, as I think that on the whole they do a marvelous job.
If the actions of one leads to its downfall because of mistrust...that person should feel very ashamed of themselves for bringing down such a service.
------------------------------------------------ Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all! |
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![Venkul Mul Venkul Mul](https://images.evetech.net/characters/640524843/portrait?size=64)
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:24:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 11/06/2007 22:27:42
Originally by: Lee Bian Edited by: Lee Bian on 11/06/2007 18:42:46
Originally by: SamuraiJack CCP dont want to. Its an idea to warn ppl not to be idiotic however modding is somewhat hit and miss sometimes. Much like petitions... if consistant rules were followed then maybe it might work.
How would it be a bad thing if it showed the petitions being inconsistant? I mean that would be something to fix, and it would get players to be able to see if they are being treated unfairly. We're all after a good and fair game, and to be able to check if it is as fair as I want it to be would be pretty cool.
Also I want to laugh at the reasons people get banned over.
edit:
Originally by: SamuraiJack and that account sharing thing... was interesting to see who got banned... and who just got a warning...
touche no?
Please elaborate, I didn't read it.
Because if you don't put all the facts, the ruling will mostly seem inconsistents, while if you put all the fact you will be giving away useful informations.
Let's say CCP put out "player X was temporanly banned for use of throw away alts in suicide ganking". How much people that had his ship suicide ganked will put a contract against him and his corporation?
"Character T was banned for trolling in forum" - Waith trolling in that thread was characte Q, so Q is an alt of T.
And so on.
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![Wiggy69 Wiggy69](https://images.evetech.net/characters/289207160/portrait?size=64)
Wiggy69
5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:43:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Hire professionals and quit letting immature volunteers do a half-assed job on yor behalf. This won't be the last time you will see this, especially in a game like Eve. Just wait until your retail box hits the shelf and Eve double or triples in population, it is going to keep getting worse and worse until CCP changes it policies.
Personally, I'm glad to see CCP have taken such a public stand on this one. It's the community input (i.e. ISD - the volunteers) that add that link between the 'paid professionals' (CCP) and the players (us). Every system is open to abuse, and in this case yes, it was taken full advantage of - but the situation now appears to have been handled in a positive, forthright manner. At least by letting us know like this, we know things are being done by the Devs, unlike what used to happen when these sort of things came out. -----
Wiggy's Bad Spelling and Grammar Complaints Department |
![Jinx Barker Jinx Barker](https://images.evetech.net/characters/381848405/portrait?size=64)
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2007.06.11 22:49:00 -
[53]
Would you recommend password changes to users? Is there any chance, however slight, that passwords might have been divulged by the above mentioned action? Is it a reasonable precaution? Account names have been revealed I presume?
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![Ohmi Sohaawny Ohmi Sohaawny](https://images.evetech.net/characters/443854115/portrait?size=64)
Ohmi Sohaawny
Love You Long Time
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:25:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Edited by: Jinx Barker on 11/06/2007 23:05:45 Would you recommend password changes to users? Is there any chance, however slight, that passwords might have been divulged by the above mentioned action? Is it a reasonable precaution? *Account names/E-Mail associations have been revealed I presume?
*Edit.
It's a good idea to do this on a regular basis anyway. You may as well do so, even if there is no such possibility.
Minmatar too beaucoup! |
![Jinx Barker Jinx Barker](https://images.evetech.net/characters/381848405/portrait?size=64)
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ohmi Sohaawny
Originally by: Jinx Barker Edited by: Jinx Barker on 11/06/2007 23:05:45 Would you recommend password changes to users? Is there any chance, however slight, that passwords might have been divulged by the above mentioned action? Is it a reasonable precaution? *Account names/E-Mail associations have been revealed I presume?
*Edit.
It's a good idea to do this on a regular basis anyway. You may as well do so, even if there is no such possibility.
I usually do anyway, true. But, this whole thing is rather unexpected. Oh well, just changed the password on my account to be safe. Just worried that people have USER NAMES - as such can hookup some sort of a random password generator to guess the passwords.
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![Nekumi Nekumi](https://images.evetech.net/characters/742453969/portrait?size=64)
Nekumi
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:39:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Ohmi Sohaawny
Originally by: Jinx Barker Edited by: Jinx Barker on 11/06/2007 23:05:45 Would you recommend password changes to users? Is there any chance, however slight, that passwords might have been divulged by the above mentioned action? Is it a reasonable precaution? *Account names/E-Mail associations have been revealed I presume?
*Edit.
It's a good idea to do this on a regular basis anyway. You may as well do so, even if there is no such possibility.
I usually do anyway, true. But, this whole thing is rather unexpected. Oh well, just changed the password on my account to be safe. Just worried that people have USER NAMES - as such can hookup some sort of a random password generator to guess the passwords.
There is no reason to ever send your password to a member of CCP so you should never do it. They should be able to retrieve that sort of information internally.
If you feel that your password isn't strong enough to pass a simple guessing test then that password is obviously not the one you should be using. Alphanumerics with differing cases offer you the best chance of protection even if they are a pain in the butt to remember.
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![Moonlight Express Moonlight Express](https://images.evetech.net/characters/787483624/portrait?size=64)
Moonlight Express
Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.12 00:36:00 -
[57]
So from which alliance was the character in question that revealed this info? Because quite frankly, they should be lynched for benefiting from this guy all along while he was a volunteer. I, mean, he obviously revealed many alt's names and other sensitive info to his alliance mates and they are all now benefiting from it, so they need to be held accountable like others have been in the past when privileged info or items were unfairly obtained.
Who was it? Or is there a double standard by the community that if it was no a member of BoB, itÆs OK? Because that would not be right. WhereÆs the outrage? I for one want to know which alliance had inside info and know my alts names.
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![Waterfowl Democracy Waterfowl Democracy](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1255737282/portrait?size=64)
Waterfowl Democracy
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.12 01:31:00 -
[58]
You know if my personal details were in that email log I'd seriously be considering action against CCP for allowing this to happen. But luckily I'm not constantly emailing them to ask that people be banned for signing their posts or being in Goonfleet.
-dpb
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![Astarte Nosferatu Astarte Nosferatu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/590573318/portrait?size=64)
Astarte Nosferatu
MBN Holding Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.12 02:12:00 -
[59]
Having read said logs (July '06-April '07) which I downloaded from SHC before it was removed, I can say there's a ton of information in there. Real life names, e-mailadresses (both private and work), even phonenumbers and accountnames.
A few moderators were dumb enough to reply to mails with their private e-mailadress instead of their ISD e-mail. It's possible to find out who has mod alts etc...
I even found out who has been petitioning me which resulted in forum warnings.
And no, I will *not* be sharing the logs with anyone *nor* will I be giving out information from the logs, as that would be a bannable offence.
Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
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![Ionia Ionia](https://images.evetech.net/characters/901187537/portrait?size=64)
Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
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Posted - 2007.06.12 02:55:00 -
[60]
I just got a convo from someone warning me about this. He pasted my name and email address and said "is this you?"
Not a nice thing to find out about. I have nothing in these logs that would disgrace me in any way, just normal communication, but knowing that my information was exposed for the world to see isn't nice at all.
I hope CCP take action against the people who facilitated the link. And by action I dont merely mean a ban from the game.
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