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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
ildra	Posted - 2007.06.13 08:48:00 - [241] Originally by: Elder Bob Originally by: Heroldyn 1) which information is an ISD Member able to gather about me, my ingame characters and/or my real life details ? I'm obviously not kieron, but from the information published, CRC (the forum mods) can see: a) Forum warnings and forum sanctions, as applied by other volunteer members b) Ingame warnings and ingame sanctions, as applied by GMs c) Any information contained in emails sent to [email protected] When I email the mods, my real name is included. My phone number and account number are not. However, that is entirely my choice. Originally by: ildra Will the guy who posted the stuff on SHC get banned? how about tyraxx who did a mirror? The guy who posted the stuff on SHC (which means no real life details of anyone) soon realised the error of his actions. He has posted a public apology on SHC, and he aided Morpheus from IA in his investigation, giving him the identity of the moderator in question. I am confident that if the thread had not been removed, he would have removed that content himself. Realising that you made a mistake doing something like that isnt enough, punishment needs doing, im not going to rest until it is done.
NightF0x Gallente principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.13 09:03:00 - [242] Originally by: Moonlight Express Where was your outrage when a well-known hacker stole from multiple alliances thousands of their email and IP addresses? Did you registered to his web site and are reading info that he was able to hack? That does not bother you at all, does it? Because I didn't see you raising a stink about it. Maybe you should stop supporting the criminals before executing the policemen because they could not stop the crime. I don't have a clue as to what you are referring to, so please quit trying to accuse me of something that I haven't done. I was outraged that I found out about this on my alliance's forum before CCP even attempted to send any type of warning (which still hasn't been done). You can stop trying to downplay this whole incident. It is a huge deal that personal info was disclosed and there are several, myself included, that have sent emails to CCP in one form or another over the past year. If you can't get that into your head then stop replying.
Tissa Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 09:20:00 - [243] Originally by: ildra Originally by: Elder Bob Originally by: ildra Will the guy who posted the stuff on SHC get banned? how about tyraxx who did a mirror? The guy who posted the stuff on SHC (which means no real life details of anyone) soon realised the error of his actions. He has posted a public apology on SHC, and he aided Morpheus from IA in his investigation, giving him the identity of the moderator in question. I am confident that if the thread had not been removed, he would have removed that content himself. Realising that you made a mistake doing something like that isnt enough, punishment needs doing, im not going to rest until it is done. If you are going to make statements like that directed at an eve-player could you please have the guts to post with your main rather than cowedly hiding behind an alt? My views do not represent those of my corp or alliance. (Joined UKC 19/09/06)
das licht Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.13 09:54:00 - [244] Great entertainment so far! Sorry for not staying on topic but this is classic.
Elder Bob	Posted - 2007.06.13 10:38:00 - [245] My other point of interest is the source of email archives. Do you know for sure that they were provided by the moderator who went rogue so recently? The major reason I ask is because the email database starts 4 months before said moderator joined CRC, and finishes 3 months before he leaves. I understand, of course, that he could have taken the cache of mails that existed before he joined. However, I don't understand why he would publish all the emails except the most recent, most pertinent three months. If I was looking for the source of that stuff, I'd be looking for someone who left CRC in April.
das licht Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.13 11:20:00 - [246] I always try to help out. All I can say is: wait until the internet doctor comes. He got a big set of instruments and maybe he is able to fix it.
Robert Dobbs Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.13 12:13:00 - [247] The ISD teams are most definately not at fault. The fault lies with CCP for allowing access to this data (which no ISD volunteer would need). --------- <Talon`dor\|Work> Arma - yeah but we call BNC dirty boosterhoes
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.13 12:43:00 - [248] Originally by: Robert Dobbs The ISD teams are most definately not at fault. The fault lies with CCP for allowing access to this data (which no ISD volunteer would need). For the ingame warning/ban data posted on SHC, yes, I agree. For the mailing list posted on Kugutsumen, I think by definition a moderator has to have access to it. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.13 13:02:00 - [249] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Robert Dobbs The ISD teams are most definately not at fault. The fault lies with CCP for allowing access to this data (which no ISD volunteer would need). For the ingame warning/ban data posted on SHC, yes, I agree. For the mailing list posted on Kugutsumen, I think by definition a moderator has to have access to it. They need access to 10 months or more worth of emails? With the addresses etc? I don't see that. Access to the messages, sure. But the rest? System could and IMO should be such that the mail is replied to without the mods ever knowing the emailaddress of the person mailing them. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.13 13:13:00 - [250] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Robert Dobbs The ISD teams are most definately not at fault. The fault lies with CCP for allowing access to this data (which no ISD volunteer would need). For the ingame warning/ban data posted on SHC, yes, I agree. For the mailing list posted on Kugutsumen, I think by definition a moderator has to have access to it. They need access to 10 months or more worth of emails? With the addresses etc? I don't see that. Access to the messages, sure. But the rest? System could and IMO should be such that the mail is replied to without the mods ever knowing the emailaddress of the person mailing them. Well they'd have to change the whole system; I can see why that would be a good idea though. The way it currently works IIRC is that there's a mailing list (ordinary mailing list, nothing high-tech), which allows all the mods to see each others' emails and actions for transparency and the like. I'm also thinking that if the email of a customer isn't shown, they might not be able to identify the customer or know that he is who he says he is. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
John McFly Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 13:35:00 - [251] Why doesnt CCP do like most major boards do and have a "report" button on each post? That would eliminate most of the emails and the custom interface would prevent someone from doing a database dump.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.13 13:56:00 - [252] Originally by: John McFly Why doesnt CCP do like most major boards do and have a "report" button on each post? That would eliminate most of the emails and the custom interface would prevent someone from doing a database dump. Going by the sheer number of obvious bugs in the forum software they've created, they seem incapable of doing anything remotely that sophisticated . Classic example: When you edit a post, it decides what page of the thread to send you back to. So what it does is it divides the number of the post you were editing by 30. This makes sense. But it rounds. So if you're editing post 25, you get sent to page 2, even if the page doesn't exist. This would require a single change in a single line of code to fix. But its existed for over 4 years, long after being reported dozens of times. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.13 14:05:00 - [253] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Robert Dobbs The ISD teams are most definately not at fault. The fault lies with CCP for allowing access to this data (which no ISD volunteer would need). For the ingame warning/ban data posted on SHC, yes, I agree. For the mailing list posted on Kugutsumen, I think by definition a moderator has to have access to it. They need access to 10 months or more worth of emails? With the addresses etc? I don't see that. Access to the messages, sure. But the rest? System could and IMO should be such that the mail is replied to without the mods ever knowing the emailaddress of the person mailing them. Well they'd have to change the whole system; I can see why that would be a good idea though. The way it currently works IIRC is that there's a mailing list (ordinary mailing list, nothing high-tech), which allows all the mods to see each others' emails and actions for transparency and the like. I'm also thinking that if the email of a customer isn't shown, they might not be able to identify the customer or know that he is who he says he is. CCP Mods already don't know who people are under the current system. I had a nice email exchange with one of the moderators/CCP guys about that, because they asked several times if I would provide a charactername and I bluntly told them no and that they shouldn't be asking for it in the first place. Maybe if people use the same mailaccount for their Eve-subscriptions as when they mail mods, the mods might know. But if people use a different account, the mods don't know who people are under the current system either. With hindsight I am happy I never gave them a charactername, because I did notice my emailaddrsss in the dump. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.13 14:22:00 - [254] SHC must be leaker because HippoKing is there.. must be! Oh and while we are at this, CCP if there is any info about me can I get name change, thanks. Oh and those who has that info, check out what I wrote to kieron about CCP stealing my images and never paying about those in FF2005.. because seems like Mr. Kieron never actually answered to me so I just wanted to know if he ever got my emails "to be honest it makes me wonder about the mental state of a person who would join a corp called Space Perverts and Forum warriors"
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.06.13 14:58:00 - [255] What assurances can CCP give that such a large leak will not happen in the future? If none can be given, I will regrettably not send anymore mails to assist the mods. It's not worth the risk of accidentally sending a mail that contains an auto-sig with more than just my name and email. Sales: Capital Ships \| Covetors Delivered - Bulk/Package/BYOM
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.13 15:13:00 - [256] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2007 15:12:28 Originally by: Erfnam What assurances can CCP give that such a large leak will not happen in the future? If none can be given, I will regrettably not send anymore mails to assist the mods. It's not worth the risk of accidentally sending a mail that contains an auto-sig with more than just my name and email. Just use a separate email. A lot of people I know who were "exposed" had emails such as the following: email: [email protected] name: SampleName Thus revealing nothing at all. Its much more secure than using a real personal email. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Sidious Cruz Amarr Stormrage Exiles	Posted - 2007.06.13 15:21:00 - [257] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2007 15:12:28 Originally by: Erfnam What assurances can CCP give that such a large leak will not happen in the future? If none can be given, I will regrettably not send anymore mails to assist the mods. It's not worth the risk of accidentally sending a mail that contains an auto-sig with more than just my name and email. Just use a separate email. A lot of people I know who were "exposed" had emails such as the following: email: [email protected] name: SampleName Thus revealing nothing at all. Its much more secure than using a real personal email. Or optionally, CCP can nail the system down, make sure the proper audit controls are in place and then it shouldnt matter what email you use. Which I am sure they are doing of course. The solution you are offering is "use a more secure, generic email account - just in case?" - thats not really a an acceptable solution. :-s Sorry if I have misunderstood what you are saying there DS.....
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.13 15:59:00 - [258] Originally by: Sidious Cruz Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2007 15:12:28 Originally by: Erfnam What assurances can CCP give that such a large leak will not happen in the future? If none can be given, I will regrettably not send anymore mails to assist the mods. It's not worth the risk of accidentally sending a mail that contains an auto-sig with more than just my name and email. Just use a separate email. A lot of people I know who were "exposed" had emails such as the following: email: [email protected] name: SampleName Thus revealing nothing at all. Its much more secure than using a real personal email. Or optionally, CCP can nail the system down, make sure the proper audit controls are in place and then it shouldnt matter what email you use. Which I am sure they are doing of course. The solution you are offering is "use a more secure, generic email account - just in case?" - thats not really a an acceptable solution. :-s Sorry if I have misunderstood what you are saying there DS..... I was saying that its a good personal security policy on any site. I'm not saying its a replacement for a proper security policy at CCP. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.06.13 16:24:00 - [259] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2007 15:12:28 Originally by: Erfnam What assurances can CCP give that such a large leak will not happen in the future? If none can be given, I will regrettably not send anymore mails to assist the mods. It's not worth the risk of accidentally sending a mail that contains an auto-sig with more than just my name and email. Just use a separate email. A lot of people I know who were "exposed" had emails such as the following: email: [email protected] name: SampleName Thus revealing nothing at all. Its much more secure than using a real personal email. I already have a special eve email address. Since I use only 1 client, there have been instances where I forget to select the eve email instead of a personal one. I do have the option of not using the same email client, but if that is the required option to remove human error, than I will take the easier (and most secure) route of not sending a message. Sales: Capital Ships \| Covetors Delivered - Bulk/Package/BYOM
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.06.13 16:55:00 - [260] I would have edited, but CCP has still yet to fix the forums. This is no longer an issue. About 10 minutes worth of coding resulted in a html form that will send a mail to the mods. I honestly don't understand why CCP hasn't done something similar with their forums. A link to report a thread would significantly cut down on their workload. Click the button, it redirects to a form with a confirmation button and optional comment field. Many users would be more inclined to police the forums and it would all be collected in a database that can be queried in a meaningful way by the mods. Sales: Capital Ships \| Covetors Delivered - Bulk/Package/BYOM
Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:23:00 - [261] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Robert Dobbs The ISD teams are most definately not at fault. The fault lies with CCP for allowing access to this data (which no ISD volunteer would need). For the ingame warning/ban data posted on SHC, yes, I agree. For the mailing list posted on Kugutsumen, I think by definition a moderator has to have access to it. They need access to 10 months or more worth of emails? With the addresses etc? I don't see that. Access to the messages, sure. But the rest? System could and IMO should be such that the mail is replied to without the mods ever knowing the emailaddress of the person mailing them. Well they'd have to change the whole system; I can see why that would be a good idea though. The way it currently works IIRC is that there's a mailing list (ordinary mailing list, nothing high-tech), which allows all the mods to see each others' emails and actions for transparency and the like. I'm also thinking that if the email of a customer isn't shown, they might not be able to identify the customer or know that he is who he says he is. CCP Mods already don't know who people are under the current system. I had a nice email exchange with one of the moderators/CCP guys about that, because they asked several times if I would provide a charactername and I bluntly told them no and that they shouldn't be asking for it in the first place. Maybe if people use the same mailaccount for their Eve-subscriptions as when they mail mods, the mods might know. But if people use a different account, the mods don't know who people are under the current system either. With hindsight I am happy I never gave them a charactername, because I did notice my emailaddrsss in the dump. I recently had a goaround with them on that point and when I told them my char name they used his past history of posts to tell me why What I had asked of them wouldnt happen. I cant put anything here Im A troublemaker
Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:27:00 - [262] Originally by: Sidious Cruz Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2007 15:12:28 Originally by: Erfnam What assurances can CCP give that such a large leak will not happen in the future? If none can be given, I will regrettably not send anymore mails to assist the mods. It's not worth the risk of accidentally sending a mail that contains an auto-sig with more than just my name and email. Just use a separate email. A lot of people I know who were "exposed" had emails such as the following: email: [email protected] name: SampleName Thus revealing nothing at all. Its much more secure than using a real personal email. Or optionally, CCP can nail the system down, make sure the proper audit controls are in place and then it shouldnt matter what email you use. Which I am sure they are doing of course. The solution you are offering is "use a more secure, generic email account - just in case?" - thats not really a an acceptable solution. :-s Sorry if I have misunderstood what you are saying there DS..... As long as the volunteer system stands as it is, they are NOT doing anything to "nail down" the system the NDAs are apparently not enough to control these people. I cant put anything here Im A troublemaker
Kramer Verone Amarr TeamMX	Posted - 2007.06.13 18:33:00 - [263] I'm sure continuing to whitewash investigations, threating players with legal recourse and banning accounts will solve all of CCP's problems, including lag. I wonder if CCP realizes they turned Kungs into a martyr by banning him. A lot more people are following in his footsteps now, including ISD's, GM's, and maybe even a jaded DEV... True to eve, these sleeper spies won't be caught until the it's too late for Eve.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.13 18:41:00 - [264] Originally by: Kramer Verone I'm sure continuing to whitewash investigations, threating players with legal recourse and banning accounts will solve all of CCP's problems, including lag. Because allowing free discussion in threads dozens of pages long is clearly whitewashing and stopping discussion. Originally by: Kramer Verone I wonder if CCP realizes they turned Kungs into a martyr by banning him. A lot more people are following in his footsteps now, including ISD's, GM's, and maybe even a jaded DEV... True to eve, these sleeper spies won't be caught until the it's too late for Eve. Kugutsumen deleted the post with the logs. Even he thought it was over the top and wrong. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.06.13 18:43:00 - [265] Originally by: Kramer Verone I'm sure continuing to whitewash investigations, threating players with legal recourse and banning accounts will solve all of CCP's problems, including lag. I wonder if CCP realizes they turned Kungs into a martyr by banning him. A lot more people are following in his footsteps now, including ISD's, GM's, and maybe even a jaded DEV... True to eve, these sleeper spies won't be caught until the it's too late for Eve. Childish threats will not get you anywhere. Welcome to the real world, where you will be held accountable for something that you in your childish world think is for the lulz. In the world of grownups you go to jail for it.
Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:50:00 - [266] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kramer Verone I'm sure continuing to whitewash investigations, threating players with legal recourse and banning accounts will solve all of CCP's problems, including lag. I wonder if CCP realizes they turned Kungs into a martyr by banning him. A lot more people are following in his footsteps now, including ISD's, GM's, and maybe even a jaded DEV... True to eve, these sleeper spies won't be caught until the it's too late for Eve. Childish threats will not get you anywhere. Welcome to the real world, where you will be held accountable for something that you in your childish world think is for the lulz. In the world of grownups you go to jail for it. The world of grownups is internet spaceships! lol I cant put anything here Im A troublemaker
Sylfamas Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.13 20:07:00 - [267] It seems CCP can not have any sort of control over what their volunteers/employees do. That adds to the "i don't trust CCP" thing. And i am beginning to think that i don't trust CCP either. I am paying to play a game here, but all i hear is "A guy from dev banned another because he was annoyed", " A guy from dev used his dev-powers to help his alliance ", " a guy from volunteer did that and this..."... now really... if CCP doesn't do something about this many players will just stop playing. I getting fed up with it as well. Although i appreciate that this incident had a quick response from CCP. Good Work on that. But bad work on controlling your staff. You look helpless. So let's review the problems ... of the game and ccp : 1) A ton of incidents with ccp staff 2) Full-LAG-Featured systems... 3) Many problems with the client ( bugs and all sort of things) So you should make a BIG MEETING with all of CCP staff (employees/volunteers) and make some clear lines there. Who can do what and if he does more than he's allowed he gets what( termination of employment, etc). As we , the clients are worried about what are we paying. A professionist corporation that allows fun for a fee. Or a non-professional corporation that allows fun for a fee, and you get 0 fun. Decide what you want to do, tell the players very clearly what you want to do and what WILL YOU DO, how long it's going to take to get everything fixed, etc etc. We are looking for a big response from CCP. Thank You p.s. sorry if it's confused or anything, i am a lil' tired, i came home, found the lagged fitting system, and nervously found this as well...so....anyway I only have one rule: Everyone fights, no one quits.
DoctorBautz	Posted - 2007.06.13 21:12:00 - [268] first thanks for telling, since i am not scouting all forums for all info everyday. someguys seem to have serious issues here: -this game is for fun. -this game should make teamplay and coordination the key for succes -and even if you loose mayor engagements or space or whatever, learn from it and try to be better next time. i didnt like any type of cheating at all and when personal info is comming up it is even worse. and to that isd guy who passed over the info: why did you become an isd? i think when you started you liked the game and wanted to help makin it better. but the behavior you showed is so childish. i think every player of eve-online wants a nice fair and fungame to play. there are great fansites, movies, the features and ideas forums allways got some cool ideas within which are worth to think about. and in the end there are allways some yerks who just dont get it. t20 incident: dont know what that guy had in his mind when he done it. (not good for bob nor ccp nor himself) goon letter: they felt mistreated and to a certain point i can understand their anger. isd idiot: felt mistreated needed a hug? come on..... this game is fun for me and i enjoy it - i wont be the uber rich or uber powerfull guy but i can live with that. all the stuff happening in the past only prooves that some players arent worth to play eve or be an isd or be a dev. to bad that there are allways some bullys around who just couldnt leave without a big bang.
Astarte Nosferatu MBN Holding Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.13 21:45:00 - [269] Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 13/06/2007 21:44:09 For the record, I personally notified the person who'se phone number/work related e-mailadresses were comprimised in the leaked moderator logs, and necessary precautions to prevent abuse have been taken. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.06.13 23:13:00 - [270] Originally by: Kramer Verone I'm sure continuing to whitewash investigations, threating players with legal recourse and banning accounts will solve all of CCP's problems, including lag. I wonder if CCP realizes they turned Kungs into a martyr by banning him. A lot more people are following in his footsteps now, including ISD's, GM's, and maybe even a jaded DEV... True to eve, these sleeper spies won't be caught until the it's too late for Eve. Kugu is only a 'martyr' because all his followers like to ignore that his 'whistle blowing' was the result of failed attempts at extortion/blackmail. Maybe if CCP were to take legal action against people like this, and publicize the results, people would be less inclined to risk everything on stupid acts. However I'm sure there'd be plenty of people to cry foul over CCP doing some legal-pwnage against people who attatemp to damage them. Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.

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