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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Fager
Thunderstruck.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 18:22:00 -
[1411]
Edited by:****er on 05/08/2007 18:24:15
Originally by: IamBen Also, please dont force ships to be close range. Especially speed ships like the malediction and heretic. Nobody is stupid enough to come close with ceptors/interdictors. I dont know which person thought that up, but when you think about it, its REALLY stupid.
well... The sacri doesnt look like its meant for speed tank. Its meant for armor tank closerange.
Think of it as a blasterboat with better tank and lesser dmg?
If you want longrange bonus to it, its gonna be 5% to heavy missile EM dmg, instead of 5% All HAM missile dmg.
would you trade those bonuses? I mean you can fit long range missies on it and shoot therm/kin/expl almost as good as if you decide to give it a long range bonus...
If it got reduced dmg bonus but the bonus given to all Heavy missies you still got the fact that fitting Heavy missiles on this will be very hard anyway, so all youll be really doing is gimping its closerange ability as a blaster-missie-boat and hardly increasing its range capabilities anyway...
Just a thought..
This is ofcourse only about the Sacri. I dont want to say to much about the smaller ships couse frankly i dont have much of a clue about em, i just enjoy flying fast sometimes.
But not everyone and there mother will be fitting NEUTs and NOS wont stop small ships anymore. Not everyone has midslots to fit Webs.. especially ships that want to stick out of webrange or even scram range. And since everyone knows that inties will be outside web they dont fit it to counter it even when they in some extreem cases do have a midslot over... But there are probably still to many webs out there that its still a major worry..
Well since every singel interceptor fears the webrange so much i accept, since i know not better, that it is true and it is 100% riddiculus.
"I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2007.08.05 18:25:00 -
[1412]
Edited by: MirrorGod on 05/08/2007 18:25:25 It's nice on paper but unless Nos is stlill broken on the test server, it's absolutely FUBAR in application. Made of fail and sadness. Make it stop.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected]) |
Zorok
Tactical Precision
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Posted - 2007.08.05 19:07:00 -
[1413]
It would be nice if a CCP rep could at least comment on all these feedback we have given. I would like to know that they realize that this change has concerned a great deal of the Eve community at this point- more so than any other proposed change in the past. At the time of this writing, we're already up to 50 pages of comments. I have one more idea about the NOS- one that will make it a valuable tool throughout a battle. How about instead of the NOS ceasing to function when both ships caps are equal, the NOS goes into a reduced function mode where it can only drain half of the energy it could before until the defender's cap rises above that of the attacker. The beauty of this is that ships like the Curse that get bonuses to this module won't suffer and ships that don't have bonuses won't be able to NOS the opponent to death. But they will still be able to pull cap to at least add some power to their ship. Anyone else like this idea? -Zorok
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Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.05 19:34:00 -
[1414]
could work as well... but then, any idea is better than what CCP has in mind.... _________________________________________________
For more players and action in lowsec
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Zorok
Tactical Precision
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Posted - 2007.08.05 19:38:00 -
[1415]
hahah agreed!
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.05 20:53:00 -
[1416]
Originally by: Zorok It would be nice if a CCP rep could at least comment on all these feedback we have given. I would like to know that they realize that this change has concerned a great deal of the Eve community at this point- more so than any other proposed change in the past. At the time of this writing, we're already up to 50 pages of comments.
They did answer, look posts 970 or so. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Zorok
Tactical Precision
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Posted - 2007.08.05 21:45:00 -
[1417]
Ahh yes thank you. It appears the devs are adamant about forcing these changes on the community. They don't appear swayed by the outcry. I see the one difference in what I believed about how the nos would work under their proposal is that the nos approaches diminishing gains as you and the nosed target approach the same cap % which is worse than I thought. If they want to use diminishing gains then they shouldn't base it on the nosing ships cap. They could make diminishing gains come into effect as you drain them down to 0 cap but make it so that even a battleship with 5 large nos couldn't suck more than 80% of a small ships cap. I'm afraid that the nos won't even work defensively if they implement this idea. The problem is that ships that lack space in their mid slots that relied on the high slots for power will now be at a disadvantage. These changes will only make Minmatar and Caldari the flavor of the day.
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:05:00 -
[1418]
Wall of text
2-3 paragraphs make it far easier to read.
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Wesley Harding
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:36:00 -
[1419]
Fix the Impel please? More resists or cap bonii, the repair rate ones aren't very good.
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xaja
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Posted - 2007.08.06 01:07:00 -
[1420]
Khanid ships:
I don't mind missile skills, as Amarr, I was forced early on to train everything but Amarr ships to be able to play effectively...
At the very least, CCP, if you change existing ships to where suddenly they use an entirely different weapon system:
do some SQL command that detects laser related rigs, like energy collision rigs etc, remove them from Khanid ships at patch time and place them in people's hangars!
or convert them in the missile equivalent... adapting to changes is one thing... loosing your stuff is another: rigs are too much effort and isk to get, to just have them ripped off.
... _____________________________________ I'm Paper; Rock's fine, nerf Scissors |
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galphi
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Posted - 2007.08.06 01:37:00 -
[1421]
The Heretic is really improved by these changes. The rocket barrage is freaking deadly, and the range and explosion speed boosts are very useful too. At first I thought the lack of the 25% armour resist bonus might hurt it up close, but it actually doesn't need it with all that speed. Nine thumbs up!
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Kamel
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.06 01:59:00 -
[1422]
Been playing eve since retail, my char had been fully trained to use amarr ships and now sudently i will find out what i cant fly half of the amarr ships T2.
I cant realy understand why a race what is focused using lasers can have so much ships swiched to use only misiles. The sacrilege was a such good ship like it was, why now cant have any turret on, what about the ppl who trained the M spec lasers skills at 5?
In my opinion is just because so many eve players have trained to play caldari ships and CCP is giving them a chance to fly a diferent race ships by keeping their misile skills on it.
I would like to see what would happend if a couple of caldari T2 ships would been swiched to full turret spec instead of misile. Prety sure the comunity wouldnt find that changes so lovely.
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YetAnotherTradeAlt
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Posted - 2007.08.06 02:32:00 -
[1423]
I am gonna get flamed for this. . . Which is why I'm alt posting.
Here's an idea, redo the Pilgrim entirely, changing its focus from nos/neut to TDs. leave its T1 bonuses as they are but give it a T2 bonus of the cloak fitting and 25% to TD optimal per level. Up its max lock range etc. of course.
Max skills with Balmers nets you a range of 48*1.25*2.5=135km, plus falloff of 30km. Now, add two T1 ECM range rigs and you've got an optimal of 194.4km T2 ECM rigs, 210.9km. 70% penalty to optimal will really ruin a sniper BS' day, and rigged you're well in range of Megas, Hyperions, Tempests, Maelstroms, Abaddons, Apocs, and Armageddons. Falloff gives you some chance of even getting one of those 250km Rokhs. The 180km snipers go to about 60km and the 250km Rokh to 75, assuming your TD takes.
It loses almost all solo ability, but it becomes equal to the Rook if not surpassing it in a fleet warfare role.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.08.06 03:22:00 -
[1424]
Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 06/08/2007 03:24:17 Alright, I assume people have run the numbers themselves, but no ones posted em here.
Max DPS for the New and Old Sac
Assumes all skills maxed, 1 Damage Mod, and T2 gear. Drones are not included, as they are the same on both.
Old Sac
4x Heavy Pulse II, 2x HAML II, 1 Heat Sink II, using Conflagration M and Rage HAMs
DM for HPII: 3.6(Base)*1.25 (HAC V)*1.25 (M Laser Turret V)*1.15 (Surgical V)*1.1 (Pulse Spec V)*1.1 (Heat Sink II) = 7.827
RoF for HPII: 5.25 * 0.9 (Guns V) * 0.8(Rapid V) * 0.895(HSII) = 3.3831
DPS for all 4 HPIIs: 259.1 DPS, Alpha of 876
HAML II Damage per Rage HAM: 120(Base) * 1.25(HAM V) *1.1 (Warhead Upgrades V) = 165 RoF: 6.4(Base) * 0.9(ML Ops V) * 0.85(Rapid V) *0.9(HAM Spec V) = 4.896
2x HAM DPS: 67.4, Alpha of 330
Total DPS (Old): 326.5 DPS Total Alpha (Old): 1,206
New Sac
5x HAML II, 1x BCU II, Rage HAM
Damage per Rage HAM: 120 * 1.25(HAM V) * 1.1(Warhead Upgrades V) * 1.25 (Cruiser V) * 1.1 (BCU II) = 226.9
RoF 6.4 * 0.9 (ML Ops V) * 0.85 (Rapid V) * 0.895 (BCU II) * 0.9 (HAM Spec V) * 0.75 (HAC V) = 2.958 seconds
DPS from 5 HAM II w/ Rage: 383.5 DPS Alpha: 1134.4
DPS from 5 HAM II w/ Navy HAMs: 367.5 DPS, Alpha: 1087.1
Not bad for a 'nerf' eh? Gains 15% more DPS and damage types switchable on demand, but loses a lot of range. Still, HAMs have better range than cruiser blasters with skills, assuming they aren't using Null.
Now, add 50% its cargohold to allow for more HAM spammage. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales |
Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.08.06 04:03:00 -
[1425]
Edited by: Phaedruss on 06/08/2007 04:07:12
Originally by: galphi Malediction is a great little inty now, tough as nails! Not sure about having to get in webifier range to actually deal damage though. Still, it survives close encounters better than others.
Giving the malediction a missile system focus, or at least moving away from the split system was a good move, but I think you'll find the malediction will be utterly broken with the new changes. The rocket damage is all well and good but you can't damage what you can't hit. It's not just the range issue with it, the lack of a missile velocity bonus is crippling to a ship pretty much limited to rockets.
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2007.08.06 07:33:00 -
[1426]
Originally by: Kamel Been playing eve since retail, my char had been fully trained to use amarr ships and now sudently i will find out what i cant fly half of the amarr ships T2.
I cant realy understand why a race what is focused using lasers can have so much ships swiched to use only misiles. The sacrilege was a such good ship like it was, why now cant have any turret on, what about the ppl who trained the M spec lasers skills at 5?
In my opinion is just because so many eve players have trained to play caldari ships and CCP is giving them a chance to fly a diferent race ships by keeping their misile skills on it.
I would like to see what would happend if a couple of caldari T2 ships would been swiched to full turret spec instead of misile. Prety sure the comunity wouldnt find that changes so lovely.
signed..
And that would never happen as probably CCP are mostly Caldari.. The whole khanid sucks big time.. Just redo the freaking backstory..
->My Vids<- |
DUFFMANX
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.06 07:41:00 -
[1427]
Vengence : Nice change no more needs to be done here, tight fitting wise but good weapon system layout.
Sacrilidge : Again nice changes makes a big difference wit 1 weapon system.
Anathema\Heretic : Anathema didnt really need change but is good anyways\Heretic can acyually do some decent damage now.
Damnation : Tbh as an amarr player i believe this needs to loose 1 low and get an extra missile hardpoint and + 25 cpu. With the current changes its tank is still great but damage sucks compared to eos\claymore and vulture. Adding another missile hardpoint and removing a low will balance between uber gank + tank (limiting bcu slots)
Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.
Originally by: dimensionZ The biggest threat we ever had was xirtam mining plagioclase in aridia ...
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.06 08:16:00 -
[1428]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Not bad for a 'nerf' eh? Gains 15% more DPS and damage types switchable on demand, but loses a lot of range. Still, HAMs have better range than cruiser blasters with skills, assuming they aren't using Null.
You gain range actually.
With conflag you'll have an optimal of 11.25 which is about the same as the max rage HAM range (although you are there in the end better off using navy ammo, the cap recharge penality is not worth the extra dps), with scorch you'll have an 33.75k optimal while jav HAMs reach till 60k.
Also, you do not need any cap to do this dps and get on top of that a cap recharge bonus from the ship. Rage HAMs reduce this, but even with those you'll still have with the capuse bonus 85% of the current caprecharge. And I doubt that 4 HP2 will use only 15% of that.
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Julius Romanus
Free Space Development Cartel
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Posted - 2007.08.06 08:21:00 -
[1429]
Originally by: DUFFMANX Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.
Just a question, but what non close range weapons has the Malediction ever fit?
I'm still stoked about the Malediction 2.0, even after a week to mull it over. I cant even force myself to play on TQ, even with my skills being a month behind I prefer my SiSi setup.
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DUFFMANX
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.06 08:35:00 -
[1430]
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: DUFFMANX Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.
Just a question, but what non close range weapons has the Malediction ever fit?
I'm still stoked about the Malediction 2.0, even after a week to mull it over. I cant even force myself to play on TQ, even with my skills being a month behind I prefer my SiSi setup.
Personally i used to fly around using speed setup wit dual light beams and 1 point for range for tackle. Thats the most u could honestly get from it now with the upcoming changes u can either go with the bonus and fit rockets or u can fit standard launchers.
If u use standards obviously u dont get the 5% bonus to rockets but u get a nice long range missile spamming ceptor almost comparable to the crow. On the other hand if u use rockets u get awesoime close range dps but at close range 1 web and ur pretty much toast.
The idea of removing the utility highslot and adding a low means u can still vary between close or long range weaponary. But if u decide on sticking on cose range for the added bonus the low slots will give u a bit more o play with in terms or more armor or wotever u pref on that slot.
Example : 3 rl2, mwd2, web, scram, small rep, 200mm plate, adaptive nano plating, 2 overdrives or 1 od and 1 nano
Originally by: dimensionZ The biggest threat we ever had was xirtam mining plagioclase in aridia ...
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Julius Romanus
Free Space Development Cartel
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Posted - 2007.08.06 08:59:00 -
[1431]
Originally by: DUFFMANX
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: DUFFMANX Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.
Just a question, but what non close range weapons has the Malediction ever fit?
I'm still stoked about the Malediction 2.0, even after a week to mull it over. I cant even force myself to play on TQ, even with my skills being a month behind I prefer my SiSi setup.
Personally i used to fly around using speed setup wit dual light beams and 1 point for range for tackle. Thats the most u could honestly get from it now with the upcoming changes u can either go with the bonus and fit rockets or u can fit standard launchers.
If u use standards obviously u dont get the 5% bonus to rockets but u get a nice long range missile spamming ceptor almost comparable to the crow. On the other hand if u use rockets u get awesoime close range dps but at close range 1 web and ur pretty much toast.
The idea of removing the utility highslot and adding a low means u can still vary between close or long range weaponary. But if u decide on sticking on cose range for the added bonus the low slots will give u a bit more o play with in terms or more armor or wotever u pref on that slot.
Example : 3 rl2, mwd2, web, scram, small rep, 200mm plate, adaptive nano plating, 2 overdrives or 1 od and 1 nano
Reasonable, I definitely wouldnt argue against a 4th lowslot. I was just curious about the range comment because the 'sader has always had that niche' pretty much locked down. With the resist bonus and the rocket focus I'm not really afraid of web range like most people seem to be.
3x rocket II's - and if i can find the fitting for it a small nos mwd/web/scram DCII(or ENAM2 depending on skills)/ODII(or nano if not using polycarbons)/200mm RT(Credit to Cmdr Sy) 2x Polycarbon rigs(optional)
Super cheap sans rigs. Goes 4.7km/s without them, 6.3 with. Which is plenty fast for tackling, and even for catching non faction/snake ints(which we have the sader for).
If I suddenly got an extra low, sweet. Regardless, and I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with my spec, I think the new 'diction is concentrated win painted green.
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LvxOccvlta
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Posted - 2007.08.06 09:40:00 -
[1432]
Edited by: LvxOccvlta on 06/08/2007 09:41:52 I've got an idea on fixing the curse...and the pilgrim...
If this proposed Nos nerf goes online, you should give the curse and pilgrim a NEGATIVE cap-usage bonus for Energy Neutralizers, which would replenish their caps instead of drawing cap away.
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ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.08.06 11:27:00 -
[1433]
The Nosferatu didnt need to be changed at all. The balance worked on the whole. This change could remove the balance to far away from nosferatu. www.eve-players.com |
Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.08.06 12:13:00 -
[1434]
Originally by: ViolenTUK The Nosferatu didnt need to be changed at all. The balance worked on the whole. This change could remove the balance to far away from nosferatu.
Exactly. NOS was not overpowered. U was needed to offer firepower for nos and thats good so. The problem was drone boats. that was needed to fix, and they need still a fix.
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Sasaki Dita
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Posted - 2007.08.06 14:35:00 -
[1435]
Edited by: Sasaki Dita on 06/08/2007 14:36:34 This patch will amplify the gap between amarr and the other races even more. Amarr is, will be, by far the worst race to play with. Just compare the Heretic with Sabre, the Heretic is useless... I expected some nice new features for this race, but instead is a nerf. Disapointed.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2007.08.06 15:12:00 -
[1436]
instead of a dump nos nerf, they should make something up to counter makros and farmers.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.08.06 15:12:00 -
[1437]
Edited by: Bentula on 06/08/2007 15:12:57 Training for the malediction atm(and vengeance ofc), finally a ceptor i like. Yes its true, if you get into webrange you might get into trouble. But you dont HAVE to fly in webrange, in 90% of non solo situations it would suffice to get a point on a target. I just like to have the option to get a web on people, like when i see the hostile hasnt locked me yet.
Vengeance i basicly want to fly because it will be my first frigate sized ship that can run disruptor, weapons, mwd AND some sort of tank/gank setup.
Also rockets, even without a velocity bonus, will spell certain death to any ceptor that gets into MY webrange(malediction now, dotn really expect ceptors being dense enough to get close to a vengeance ).
Malediction is a do or die kind of ship now, i like it .
P.S. The khanid ships all have improved shields and weaker armor compared to normal amarr ships. Now that they are clearly armortankers can we get some more armor hp and less shield hp?
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Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.08.06 17:22:00 -
[1438]
Originally by: ViolenTUK The Nosferatu didnt need to be changed at all. The balance worked on the whole. This change could remove the balance to far away from nosferatu.
/signed. Nosferatu weren't overpowered, they were just a must-have module with practically no downsides and select ships using a full rack of them were pretty much invincible 1v1. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.08.06 18:35:00 -
[1439]
Both look awesome,especially the khanid one,bravo \o/. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Borasao
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Posted - 2007.08.06 19:46:00 -
[1440]
Originally by: Sasaki Dita Edited by: Sasaki Dita on 06/08/2007 14:36:34 This patch will amplify the gap between amarr and the other races even more. Amarr is, will be, by far the worst race to play with. Just compare the Heretic with Sabre, the Heretic is useless... I expected some nice new features for this race, but instead is a nerf. Disapointed.
Funny... because a few posts back there's a poster that was very pleased with the changes saying they were much more for the better. Also, the Sacrilege changes seem to be really nice, unless, of course, you either have no missile skills, are too hardheaded to train missile skills, or both.
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