The trade window is terrible, and vulnerable to sleight of hand - and you shouldn't use it for commerce.

What probably happened was they put in 95 million, then zeroed it *and then hit accept*, and you didn't notice them zeroing the value before you hit accept.

Use the contract system instead.

and it's unlikely your petition would result in anything. Chalk it up as an eve lesson and get back at it.

Nope, I'm aware of that tactic. The 95mil was there.



Well this is unacceptable. That ship is worth 1/3 of my savings in the game, and I lost it due to poor game mechanics. I shouldn't be liable for unsatisfactory trade window code.

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

Good luck with that

And I'm so glad you found the money to form your own corp a few minutes ago. Not so broke, huh?

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

Yea but the point still stands, CCP needs to fix dumb **** like this. You may not have the resources of Blizzard but damn, you cant make a properly working trade window? Really? C'mon CCP...

Hm, I wondered how that worked. I had someone offer me a ship for well below cost, a trade window popped up along with the ship. I could not figure out how such a scam would work, but this being eve I closed the trade window.

Lag scam? So they zeroed the amount and hit accept at just the right time so the OP never saw it happen due to lag?

Are you sure you saw 95.000.000.00 and not 95.000.00?

Remember to ALWAYS count the digits and subtract by two (as those last two are "cents").

Yeah... dumb interface deatails thingy. But somehow... I have this nagging suspicion that CCP made it this way on purpose for this exact reason.

I understand that you're upset about losing your ship, but I suggest you just move on. You got scammed, it happens if you're not careful.

You can petition it but can you prove that the trade window said 95 million when you hit the accept button???? Probably not. It will just waste a gm's time to look at it.

It's just the way it is *shrug*. Eve isn't perfect but what else are you gonna play? World of Warcraft?

The fault of the decent into a state of tyranny rests on the shoulders of the apathetic.

GǪexcept that scamming is explicitly and purposefully allowed by the game designers. Its existence has nothing to do with apathy.

... and why the hell would we as a playerbase tolerate that?

... and why the hell would we as a playerbase tolerate that?

The fault of the decent into a state of tyranny rests on the shoulders of the apathetic.

Your Domi fit sucks anyway

There should probably be a final, confirmation window which appears for both parties after accept is clicked. It shows the proposed transaction, which cannot be modified. Both parties need to click accept again, or else reject.

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

The Guristas disagree.

The Guristas are ********.

You combine buffer and active tanks, you use a mag stab on a ship where your DPS comes from drones.... it doesn't take much to make a Domi invincible in L4s, but it takes some intelligence to fit it properly. No wonder you're so broke for such an old player, it takes you ages to do the simplest of L4s, and its mind numbingly boring to do it.

I think that CCP just wants the extra $15 a month.

Oh, wait, scammers make so much ISK that they just plex.

The Guristas disagree.

Another example of how scammers get off without consequences... he'll never leave the station, never have sec status where you could even put a bounty on him (even though that is a totally f'd up mechanic as well)

You think being able to kill rats enables you to judge whether a fit is good or not? That's freaking hilarious coming from someone like you, who's played this game for years. I can hop into an armor drake and do L4's. Just saying. I see ratters rat with the most stupid fits every day.

You'll do good staying in high sec, running missions all day.

You know, you bring up a very good point

People always talk about EVE in terms of

"Risk vs Reward"

Where is the risk for scammer?

Can someone give a legimate reason as to why there is a risk for a scammer selling Carbon to someone who thinks its a Charon? Cause if there is no LEGITIMATE risk, this game activity needs to be put in line with all the other activities of EVE that require risk.

The risk, indeed, should be CCP catching them and banning them.

Sigh... There was some sympathy at the start of the thread. shame you went a ruined it really.... grow up mate, it's a game.

For what?

Do you also propose that CCP should start catching you and banning you for shooting those Guristas?

I'm a high-sec player.

For what? Really? Do I have to spell out that scamming players out of ISK, which is transferable to game time, is the same thing as scamming people out of real money?

Except that it's not. Well, unless you're an ISK sellerGǪ in which case they most certainly should ban you, not the scammer.

Scamming is legitimate gameplay. Why would they ban people for playing the game?

CCP decides what is legitimate and what isn't.

The Guristas are ********.

You combine buffer and active tanks, you use a mag stab on a ship where your DPS comes from drones.... it doesn't take much to make a Domi invincible in L4s, but it takes some intelligence to fit it properly. No wonder you're so broke for such an old player, it takes you ages to do the simplest of L4s, and its mind numbingly boring to do it.

GǪand they've decided that scamming is legitimate. So you can stop with the Gǣban themGǥ nonsense.

God forbid I'm a high-sec player.

If believe you got hit by a bug file a bug report. If that bug is confirmed (that bug is very very old btw) you refere to it in your petition. Whining about a bug on the forum that was exploited will and always has spawn trolls. It never spawned devs.

scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious

I'm just really surprised that you all feel that way.

I guess this is another issue however, the trade window is the culprit.

If the right DEV happens to read this, the petition is filed, please get back to me.

Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.

the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

+1 eve community.

Derp your fit sucks.

Derp hi-sec player.

Derp you got scammed by someone abusing a broken trade mechanic. I will not acknowledge that this game lacks a secure player to player trade mechanic like every other mmo, but instead I will call you stupid for trying to use it.

the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

the OP is an idiot for getting scammed and crying about it on the forums

Really? Risk/reward is all I hear is driving every part of EVE. CCP blather's it constantly. Sandbox proponents say it is required to hold the box together.

Getting outed? So what? They are not going anywhere anyways - the trade hubs are their safe holes while isk/material is transferred anonymously to alts. Many Pilots are claiming that scamming is the most lucrative career there is - because there is zero downside and all it takes are simple bots to execute adverts and scams.

Scamming is the disease that holds EVE back. If it's going to be a trade and continue to be supported by fail, but fully endorsed CCP mechanics - then it needs a balance before the disease finishes eroding the new player base away.

I will not acknowledge that this game lacks a secure player to player trade mechanic like every other mmo, but instead I will call you stupid for trying to use it.

Scamming is the disease that holds EVE back. If it's going to be a trade and continue to be supported by fail, but fully endorsed CCP mechanics - then it needs a balance before the disease finishes eroding the new player base away.

lol Wasting your time? I dont consider that a risk. If you consider that a risk, apply that to EVERYTHING you do in EVE.

I need to travel 10 jumps to my level 4 mission, that takes time (risk)
I need to mine these minerals, that takes time (risk)
I need to set up my PI colony, that takes time (risk)


Wasting time is not a risk.

It's a part of doing business yes, but its not a risk.

lol Wasting your time? I dont consider that a risk. If you consider that a risk, apply that to EVERYTHING you do in EVE.

I need to travel 10 jumps to my level 4 mission, that takes time (risk)
I need to mine these minerals, that takes time (risk)
I need to set up my PI colony, that takes time (risk)


Wasting time is not a risk.

It's a part of doing business yes, but its not a risk.

I don't really care what you consider a "risk" or not.

If I join a corp, spend 6 months working my way up the ranks and ultimately find that they have nothing worth stealing, despite evidence to the contrary, there goes 6 months of my time. Six months that I could have spent scamming, doing PvE or making ISK through other means. Yes, wasting time is a risk and you're an idiot.

GǪand they've decided that scamming is legitimate. So you can stop with the Gǣban themGǥ nonsense.

So a better statement would be to say that risk is situational, dumbass idiot.

Depends on the scam.

Actually, using macros to spam adverts or create contracts/trades IS bannable. Making scamming bannable would destroy any notion of Eve being a "sandbox." You're an idiot.

And you can't read. I never said they should be bannable. I said there should be consequences, such as sec hit and station ejection.l

Because that's the only situation where wasted time is possible, right?

With margin trading scams, you have the risk that someone with a stockpile of whatever item you're working with will dump into your buy order. With public contract scams, you risk a ton of ISK in fees. Trade window scams are a "grey area" and exploiting lag comes with the risk of a ban, if the GM is inclined to investigate and concludes that taking advantage of lag (which isn't a real game mechanic) was your intent.

Now, when you complain about scamming being risk-free, you're being selective of what you consider a "risk," but of course, ISK or time wasted isn't a risk, right?

For the size of the loss I don't see why all this melodrama...

I don't really care what you consider a "risk" or not.

If I join a corp, spend 6 months working my way up the ranks and ultimately find that they have nothing worth stealing, despite evidence to the contrary, there goes 6 months of my time. Six months that I could have spent scamming, doing PvE or making ISK through other means. Yes, wasting time is a risk and you're an idiot.

Yes, considering there was no exchange of money whatsoever according to my transactions journal.

Also, hooray for my first forum like recieved. \o/

I was considering offering you 100m myself (provided your petition went nowhere), but apparently I'm too selfish. Actually, it's more that I'm too generous and would be broke all the time if I gave in to every sad story. No joke, I'm the kind of person who gives $5 to every panhandler and beggar I encounter IRL.

What's important is that you learned a lesson. You were lucky enough that folks chose to help you out in your time of need. You need to get together with people who'll tell you about stuff like this, such as public chat channels for various corporations or alliances (E-UNI is one that's populous and accessible). There are also plenty of lists of EVE scams you can Google.

My God, you're arrogant.

My God, you're arrogant.

Have you come to expect humility from anyone here on the EVE forums?

Let's see, you're a mission runner flying a ship he can't afford to lose, you fell for an elementary scam (regardless of the functionality of the trade window), and you started a thread on the forums to complain about it. If that's not an old classic I've seen dozens of times before, I don't know what is.

A few years ago, I swear people would've eaten you alive. I think this game is going soft.

Even the smallest amount of research or discussion with seasoned pilots would have prevented you from embarking down that path of disaster. I may be arrogant, but hopefully my hurting of your feelings will help you to remember to do your damned research from now on.

I'm just absolutely astounded that you're really taking this much time and effort into deliberately being such a tool after this whole thing has already been taken care of.

I was around 4 years ago, tool. The playerbase was much more conducive to new players back then, not the opposite.

It hasn't been taken care of. You need to get a damned clue about how to survive in this game. The loss or reimbursement of assets is completely beside the point.



Four years ago? Did you actually complete the tutorial?

Stay mad. Get motivated. Then climb in a ship and come shoot me full of humility. I want you to keep playing and to learn the lessons you need to learn along the way.

Considering that that ship was my largest asset

That ship is worth 1/3 of my savings in the game

Zarcan > How about that Dominix? You know, that one that represents 1/2 of my capital in EVE

I had enough intelligence to not allow you to scam me out of 300mil

I was around 4 years ago, tool.

... and why the hell would we as a playerbase tolerate that?

OP, you come across as a whiny so-and-so. Regardless of any particular merits your case may have, I'm just going to go ahead and say that you deserve to be scammed.

I was around 4 years ago, tool..

[quote=Ursula LeGuinn]My God, you're arrogant.

Knowing 1-Up Mushroom, 50m is chump change for him, I think he's just hoping to get you to shut up and move on

Yea it was chump change for me, but it's just nice to help people out every once in a while.

I got scammed out of an officer fit Kronos, and I'm really sad about it and :CCP: and broken game and ban scammers. Please make out all contracts to Mekki Muvila, Kronos would be nice but I prefer cash.

If OP got scammed because of poor coding I also find a GM should step in and revert the transactions.

Hell this game is almost 10 years old, it's about time to end the beta and work on those kind of details.

CCP do you want to entertain your playerbase or **** them? Scamming is a good thing for this game, but it should be subtle and clever, not some kind of stupid exploit any uneducated kids can pull out by messing with a clunky UI.

Yay, my very own thread of tears.

There was no exploit, and there was no bug. Lag wasn't a factor either. There is also no confirmation window that pops up when a trade is changed. I didn't get the domi for free, I paid 95k (though I could have gotten it for free in this case if I wanted it).

Let me break it down very slowly for Zarcan:

1) Zarcan advertises his horribly overpriced failfit Domi in local for 95m
2) I open a trade window
3) I hit "offer isk," enter 95m, hit ok
4) I hit "offer isk" again, backspace off 3 zeroes
5) I wait
6) Zarcan puts in his domi
7) I hit enter twice. The first enter changes the isk offered, the second enter accepts the trade
8) Zarcan immediately accepts the trade

In the time it takes to move his mouse from where he dropped the domi to the accept button, I've already hit enter. That can be done in a fraction of a second; whatever the reaction time is between my eyes registering that something is in the trade window and the signal reaching my right index finger to hit enter. So, from Zarcan's perspective, he saw 95m, dropped his domi and hit enter almost immediately, but still long enough for me to change the price.

I know this isn't news to most of you guys, but Zarcan seems to need the "Scamming for Dummies" version.

I'm surprised this thread stayed in general discussion so long. Shouldn't this have been moved to C&P? I'm also surprised this is my first thread (that I've seen, anyway), and that of all my station trade scams, this is the one that gets me a thread. There was the one I took 4 plexes from... the rigged rattlesnake... oh, and the 14 year old kid that I took 2 plexes from that he had just paid for with his mom's credit card. He accused me of ruining his life. I would have expected a thread from any of those.

But this? A domi I sold for 65m? Kind of a surprise. I didn't even really get any tears at first. It wasn't until about an hour later did the tears start flowing.

Like I said in private convo, "take the loss like a man, learn from your mistake, and thank whatever God you believe in that I didn't get you for more."

Don't get so offended that somebody bested you at a game. Do you act the same way when somebody beats you in chess?

Yea it was chump change for me, but it's just nice to help people out every once in a while.

Problem is, that's the definition of the trade lag scam, and CCP has said it's an exploit. If it gets petitioned and the logs show something, well..

Problem is, that's the definition of the trade lag scam, and CCP has said it's an exploit. If it gets petitioned and the logs show something, well..

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

What would make this trade window scamming impossible would be a final screen that shows the absolute end of the trade.
Say I am buying a BC for 100 million. The battlecruiser enters the window, I put my money into the window and accept. Then the screen pops up with a final trade of Battlecruiser for 100,000,000. Do you Accept? YES. Then voila, the end result is controlled by the server and everything goes through smoothly.

Pretty easy fix really.

Fix? I'm not convinced anything's broken.

Hey guys.

So, I've been running a rigged mission domi for some time now. After a good amount of missions and trading, I've got just enough so, if I sell my rigged domi at a little below real value with rigs, I'd be able to outfit a Navy Domi.

So, I go to Jita and offer a sale of my domi for 95mil, send out the message a few times. The rigs were 1x Sentry Drone Damage Aug, 1x Large Nanobot, 1x Large Aux Nano Pump

I get a trade offer, the window pops up. I throw my Domi in to see if that's what he's inquiring about, and I see 95mil in green show up, along with his accept checkmark. I accept as well, and it goes through.

But I never got the 95mil.

Character is Marhaba. He proceeds to say in Jita chat "Thanks for the free domi ;)."

Considering that that ship was my largest asset, I'm pretty infuriated. I don't know if this was some bug, scam, or what. Would CCP listen to a petition?

What do I do from here?

All I see are people saying how if you haven't been scammed in Eve then you aren't playing. Meaning everyone in Eve will at some point be scammed. In one way by this trade window thing.

I dunno, I'm just going off what I'm reading in this thread. I have experiencd the trade window though, which is pretty bare bones and something that resembled UO back in 1999. A more secure, and truthworthy trade window is one that has a final acceptance screen that is completely controlled by the server. Server receives the BC, server receives the money, both people agree and a final acceptance appears to the seller and buyer. When both agree, the trade goes through. All in all, pretty easy to do.

Trade window scams have been going on since the hayday of MMO's. Almost the first thing people attempted to try back in UO beta.

[quote=Zarcan].Have fun with your mission running, basically the most boring thing you can do in this game along with mining. This is an MMO sandbox, and then you go and voluntarily grind your ass off doing the most mundane thing, as if you're playing World of Warcraft. Hilarious.

Scamming is a legitimate game mechanic, and I don't think it's CCP's job to prevent scams.

Scamming is a legitimate game mechanic, and I don't think it's CCP's job to prevent scams.

Just curious, why was this not moved to C&P?

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

Fix? I'm not convinced anything's broken.

Exactly, and how do you expect lag to be fixed? It's been a problem ever since Eve first came out and it's been a problem for every multiplayer game that ever exist.

Exactly, and how do you expect lag to be fixed? It's been a problem ever since Eve first came out and it's been a problem for every multiplayer game that ever exist.

Can we also stay on topic and refrain from flaming one another?

I think that CCP just wants the extra $15 a month.

Oh, wait, scammers make so much ISK that they just plex.

Hmmmmm. Obviously a completely equitable situation here.

Lying and stealing someone elses property is not a legitimate mechanic. There is a different between a gullible person falling for a trap and an actual game-creating bug/mechanic that causes the ability to scam. If someone accepts a contracted mission and goes out to the spot to pick up the item and then gets killed, that is a legitimate game mechanic. That is someone setting a legitimate trap, someone falling into it, and getting killed in the process. Thats legitimate.

Yea it was chump change for me, but it's just nice to help people out every once in a while.

... and why the hell would we as a playerbase tolerate that?

Good luck with that

And I'm so glad you found the money to form your own corp a few minutes ago. Not so broke, huh?

You are receiving a ship through this trade session. Keep in mind that even though you may have been told otherwise, this ship does not necessarily contain any modules or rigs.

If you want to be safe you should accept the ship through an Item Exchange contract instead.

Are you sure you want to continue?

What about the trade scams in Jita? They are lies that end up with somebody stealing anothers' property.

Is that supposed to be a point?

I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.

Usually people complain about it, the devs fix the exploit or scamming method and everyone moves along. In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right? The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?

That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.

I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.

Marhaba > 0/
Zarcan > So I'm gonna go ahead and humbly request that you give me what's mine.
Marhaba > what, like a wardec? Gladly
Zarcan > How about that Dominix? You know, that one that represents 1/2 of my capital in EVE
Marhaba > i've already sold it. [Contract for 65mil]
Zarcan > Well then surely you've got the money to reinburse me.

...

Perhaps I shouldn't endorse you as I'm not too popular in this thread haha, but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.

From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.

Perhaps I shouldn't endorse you as I'm not too popular in this thread haha, but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.

From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.

Well thats easy. Do not make the process lag dependant.

Make it where the trade has to be finalized and accepted on both ends, with no chance at alteration before the trade can actually be completed.

A simple final acceptance screen with the final trade showcased would be something that took a week of coding, probably alot less depending on the amount of people and would completely eliminate any chance of trade window scamming.

You see a screen pop up after both parties agree on the initial trade. The server scans the final trade and pops a message on both screens " You are about to initiate a trade with *player *. *Player* Offers XXXX Item. * You * Offer XXXX ISK/Item in return. Do you Accept?

When both parties hit the accept button, then the trade is finished. Not until then.

Very easy actually.

I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.

In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right?

The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?

That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.

I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.

It's called " a contract" and to get there you click the contracts window or you can right click the item(s) and say, "create contract."

Is that supposed to be a point?

I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.

Usually people complain about it, the devs fix the exploit or scamming method and everyone moves along. In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right? The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?

That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.

I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.

Perhaps I shouldn't endorse you as I'm not too popular in this thread haha, but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.

From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

You think being able to kill rats enables you to judge whether a fit is good or not? That's freaking hilarious coming from someone like you, who's played this game for years. I can hop into an armor drake and do L4's. Just saying. I see ratters rat with the most stupid fits every day.

You'll do good staying in high sec for the rest of your life. Have fun with your mission running, basically the most boring thing you can do in this game along with mining. This is an MMO sandbox, and then you go and voluntarily grind your ass off doing the most mundane thing, as if you're playing World of Warcraft. Hilarious.

Then why have a trade window?

Then why have a trade window?

If there is a better alternative to something, usually the other alternative that is both buggy and prone to problems gets eliminated. Odd.

Is this a serious request?

+1 eve community.

Derp your fit sucks.

Derp hi-sec player.

Derp you got scammed by someone abusing a broken trade mechanic. I will not acknowledge that this game lacks a secure player to player trade mechanic like every other mmo, but instead I will call you stupid for trying to use it.

I never said that scamming should be risk free - please link to where I said that.

And no, time wasting is not a risk...YOU are the one making a blanket statement on this. Not me. Hell, if you want to say its relative to the person doing it, fine. But in and of itself, time wasting is not a risk.

Margin Trading - Risking Isk
Public Contracts -Risking Isk

These are fine becasue you are risking isk, but we are not talking about that, we're talking about wasting time and if time is a risk or not.

I'm just really surprised that you all feel that way.

I guess this is another issue however, the trade window is the culprit.

If the right DEV happens to read this, the petition is filed, please get back to me.

Perhaps some thought should be put into making scamming and scammer more visible not unlike an honor system or an ebay rating. I might not make 1 day alts with scamming in mind detectable but it would make serious traders more known and you'd at least know who was trustworthy(ish).

You think being able to kill rats enables you to judge whether a fit is good or not? That's freaking hilarious coming from someone like you, who's played this game for years. I can hop into an armor drake and do L4's. Just saying. I see ratters rat with the most stupid fits every day.

You'll do good staying in high sec for the rest of your life. Have fun with your mission running, basically the most boring thing you can do in this game along with mining. This is an MMO sandbox, and then you go and voluntarily grind your ass off doing the most mundane thing, as if you're playing World of Warcraft. Hilarious.

Wrong, wasting time is a risk, if you spend 1hr trying to scam someone and it fails, that is one hour you could have been earning isk by other means and thus you are risking garunteed isk for possible higher isk by choosing the path you chose versus the path you could have chosen.

Perhaps some thought should be put into making scamming and scammer more visible not unlike an honor system or an ebay rating. I might not make 1 day alts with scamming in mind detectable but it would make serious traders more known and you'd at least know who was trustworthy(ish).

Hey guys.

So, I've been running a rigged mission domi for some time now. After a good amount of missions and trading, I've got just enough so, if I sell my rigged domi at a little below real value with rigs, I'd be able to outfit a Navy Domi.

So, I go to Jita and offer a sale of my domi for 95mil, send out the message a few times. The rigs were 1x Sentry Drone Damage Aug, 1x Large Nanobot, 1x Large Aux Nano Pump

I get a trade offer, the window pops up. I throw my Domi in to see if that's what he's inquiring about, and I see 95mil in green show up, along with his accept checkmark. I accept as well, and it goes through.

But I never got the 95mil.

Character is Marhaba. He proceeds to say in Jita chat "Thanks for the free domi ;)."

Considering that that ship was my largest asset, I'm pretty infuriated. I don't know if this was some bug, scam, or what. Would CCP listen to a petition?

What do I do from here?

GǪexcept that scamming is explicitly and purposefully allowed by the game designers. Its existence has nothing to do with apathy.

Hey OP, dont listen to those evil scammers) I not consider them as humans ever, there is many good peoples in eve just like in real life)) Fly safe

But I never got the 95mil.

Hey guys.

Considering that that ship was my largest asset, I'm pretty infuriated. I don't know if this was some bug, scam, or what. Would CCP listen to a petition?

What do I do from here?

Well then, My 4 year old character shouldn't exist, eh?

I'm not gonna accept that, sorry. CCP is gonna have to get back to me on this one.

I'm not trying to rag on you or anything but.... How did something worth 95 million ISK to you, end up being your largest asset after four years?

This, this so hard.

I've played a ton of MMO's in my lifetime but I have never once been around a community that actually says scamming is a legitimate mechanic of any kind. Let alone game mechanic.

...., but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.

From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.

In the sense that a game's efficiency is limited by connection speed, sure. I don't really believe that to be an sort of excuse for not correcting insecure trading windows, I haven't encountered this drastic of a trade window exploit problem in any other MMO.

If I'm not mistaken, even SOE (who was notorious for a poor connection with their playerbase, if anyone else was along with the NGE), SWG had an alert window whenever the client modified the order, precisely to prevent this problem. I don't see why this hasn't been implemented, especially in a game that has been around as long as EVE has. They don't like getting petitions any more than we like getting scammed.

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

I'm not trying to rag on you or anything but.... How did something worth 95 million ISK to you, end up being your largest asset after four years?

I don't have the time or patience to respond to all of these posts, the bottom line is that the trade window is broken and needs to be addressed.

ORLY? There are other things that need fixing more. Like checking the trade before hitting accept.

I'm calling Shenanigans on that comment. The contracts system has been revamped more than a couple of times to help prevent scamming, at least from being stupidly easy. I remember the days where someone could name a Raven "Caldari Navy Raven" and scam some poor sucker who saw that. These days, you have to get pretty creative to pull off a decent scam, or just get a victim that's asleep at the wheel.

He wouldn't have been able to do anything no matter how long he checked. It is an exploit as outlined here
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=517991&page=1
It was supposed to have been fixed 5 years ago

I'm not trying to rag on you or anything but.... How did something worth 95 million ISK to you, end up being your largest asset after four years?

Holy crap, 10 pages of people continuously ranting at me. Why is this thread still alive?

You got scammed.

Trade window is not safe, and while this particular scam might be different if it is in fact exploiting lag, I wouldn't hold your breath.

You could've prevented this by using the contract system.

It's not just about the "risk vs. reward", it's also about "carelessness and laziness both have a price in eve".

if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

But that's NOT the scam that I used. I never hit accept while 95m was shown. I changed the amount before I hit accept. In your link, the amount is changed after. So, please don't slander me and accuse me of exploiting.

If he had waited for me to hit accept first, there would have been no problem. Then again, i would have never hit accept with 95m in the window, so he'd be waiting a long time.