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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.10.13 09:20:00 -
[31]
Ravens with the velocity bonus arent hit all that hard by this, it is the phoon and the pest that get nerfed by this as they dont get a range/velocity bonus and also are short on grid and especially cpu to fit t2 sieges properly to use javelins which is not acceptable
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.13 09:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Amy Wang Ravens with the velocity bonus arent hit all that hard by this, it is the phoon and the pest that get nerfed by this as they dont get a range/velocity bonus and also are short on grid and especially cpu to fit t2 sieges properly to use javelins which is not acceptable
Not to mention that phoons don't really have the slots to fit the two painters neccessary to make torps deal full damage to many smaller sig BS now...
And really, ratting Ravens are also not that badly nerfed since they can fit an MWD (at least when ratting stuff weak against shieldtanks, like angels or guris) and might benefit from the RoF boost cavalry-style. For missions though, torps become as useful as blasters...
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.10.13 09:32:00 -
[33]
I guess they will give the Golem 2x range bonus and say look at the great mission ship we have created... ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.13 09:39:00 -
[34]
HILLARIOUS, blast from the past. Yeah, well, 6 seconds base flight time is quite abnormal too. My suggestion back then was something akin to 10 seconds or so...
Oh well, guess people will restart using Javelin Torps then, won't they ? _
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Neuromandis
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Posted - 2007.10.13 09:50:00 -
[35]
I don't know about flight time, but with the explosive radius bonus, any chance they're planning to let guided missile precision and rigs affect torps? It would make some sense if that was the case. I guess we will just have to wait and see... --- If someone else from my Corporation or Alliance agrees with me, he will say so. Assume nobody does :) --- WTB: Scorpion wing (left)
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.13 09:58:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 13/10/2007 10:03:01
Originally by: Akita T HILLARIOUS, blast from the past. Yeah, well, 6 seconds base flight time is quite abnormal too. My suggestion back then was something akin to 10 seconds or so...
Oh well, guess people will restart using Javelin Torps then, won't they ?
I would hope they do, I own two currently worthless Jav torp BPOs. Actually I guess they might, seeing how they do more damage than the old T1 torps if things stay as is...
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Crescens
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 10:05:00 -
[37]
Would it be too much to ask for for Caldari to get a much-needed speed increase/mass-reduction now that they actually have a reason to try and get it in close?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.13 10:14:00 -
[38]
Well, the flight time of torps would be all nice and dandy at 6 sec (compared to 4 sec HAM and 2 sec rockets), if only the flight speed of torps would be the same as the flight speed of rockets and HAMs (2250 m/s base), but it's not... used to be 1250, now it's 1500, hardly enough.
At max skills, theoretically, rockets have a ~10 km reach, HAMs have ~20km reach, one would only assume torpedoes to get at least a 30km reach normally, and 45km from a ship with flight speed bonus (granted, before, they had a 84+ km maxskills base reach, or 126km from L5 BS Raven, which was insane). Torps getting the same base range of HAMs is indeed ridiculous.
If you insist on only buffing the speed to 1500 m/s and not the expected 2250 m/s, you should then only reduce the base flight time to 9 seconds, not 6 seconds. So, either torpedoes with 6 sec x 2250 m/s base, or torpedoes with 9 sec x 1500 m/s base. _
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.10.13 10:31:00 -
[39]
how far do torps reach now? if it's under 30, it's VERY bad. -- Tempus fugit -- quote spiralJunkie: it doesn't matter how you pronounce it, it still shoots you in the face |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.13 10:37:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 13/10/2007 10:37:45 On my Sisi CNR, T1 torps have 31km range, that is with velo and caldari BS skills at lvl4, a 5% velo implant and two hydraulic bay thruster rigs. So with maxskills and a 3rd rig, it is somewhere around 37km.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
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Tradesman Mcgee
Caldari Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.10.13 10:41:00 -
[41]
About time they changed torps tbh, now you have to make a choice between range and high dmg, just like a railgun/blaster ship, or autocannon/arty etc. Stop whining, use cruise if you need longer range. -------------------------- Research & Trade |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.13 10:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Chi Quan how far do torps reach now? if it's under 30, it's VERY bad.
Right now, torpedoes have IDENTICAL base reach (before ship bonuses, rigs and implants) as HAMs, namely 20km at L5 bombard/projection skills. _
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General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.10.13 10:48:00 -
[43]
I bet Fendhal is at it again : after killing Amarr he's now on Caldari . That guys choses the worst solution. If he's resposibile for this anyone that beets his good and taks pics of it gets 100 M iks .
It's time to behead some DEVs .
/me/ stats gathering the angry mob
Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
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Theo Samaritan
Gallente Pheonix Reborn
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Posted - 2007.10.13 11:23:00 -
[44]
Right I cant use Tech 2 torps, but after prodding around with them on the test server. I like the changes. They hit hard fast and often and it made me consider swapping my crow for a raven on sisi (I prefer speed over power). ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/ |
Awox
Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2007.10.13 11:25:00 -
[45]
Hahahah. This is great.
Ratting torp-ravens are now even easier to kill, orbit at 23km and hope they don't have javelins (most don't).. not to mention it will be more difficult to align and insta-warp to safety (approaching to get into range) and no more "look I can make 140km sniper bookmarks and npc from there" ravens.
Awox approves.
Also, I might fly a Siege Raven on one of my characters. Sounds like it has good damage potential!
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Stefan F
Enrave Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 13/10/2007 10:37:45 On my Sisi CNR, T1 torps have 31km range, that is with velo and caldari BS skills at lvl4, a 5% velo implant and two hydraulic bay thruster rigs. So with maxskills and a 3rd rig, it is somewhere around 37km.
Yesterdaynight I tried using rigs to increase the range, indeed range came op to like 37k. Today however they seem to have changed it so these rigs don't affect torps anymore.
Now i'm stuck with 24k range, same DPS (unless i use another tanking slot for a painter) and still a pretty slow raven. If CCP wants to go through with this change, and i certainly see some benefits it might have, they should change the following to make things fair/competitive:
- Let all missile skills apply on tors, so sig radius can be around 400m if you train for it, and not needing another tanking slot. - Increase raven agility so its actually able to do close combat - increase raven midslots by 2, same reason (mwd+scram) - reduce raven lowslots by 1 (to prevent uber passive tanking) - Let all missile rigs apply to raven, so you can hit your opponent at 40k if you specialize in it.
DPS-wise torps are still 30%-40% behind blasters so they should have better range (30k+ as i can hit at 30k easily in my rokh and blasters)
For ppl saying "go armortank", thats just not a viable option. Because the low DPS nature of missiles (see the stats yourself) you just need the low slots for your DPS. I guess it was designed that way, so lets keep it so then.
PPl will argument that us caldari still have the "choose dmg type" advantage, but the only ship this works on is the raven (all other ships are bound to kinetic due to their bonus to that type). Small ships might have holes in their tank, but a torp battleship is meant to kill BS, and those ships have plenty of slots to make their ship omnitanks, so its no difference what dmg type you use. So dmg type freedom, not really.
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RDevz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.13 13:38:00 -
[47]
Caldari battleships move like cows. Cows that have been dropped into a large vat of molasses. Outside. In winter.
So, the logical thing to do is to set their dumbfire and short-range weapons to only have a range of 30km (with max skills). Yes. Now they are completely useless in PvP and a massive pain in PvE as opposed to only being slightly useless in PvP and great in PvE.
What is the reasoning behind this change? Oh, and if you're intent on making torps have a blaster-like range, can we have modules that increase it, in a manner similar to tracking mods for guns? -- #include <disclaimer.h> |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.13 14:03:00 -
[48]
Interesting change. Should javelins stay the same they will be the new standard in torpedo warfare. Good thing I quess. T2 missile ammo was worse than faction before this, it would breathe some life into it.
Screws a bit people with no skills to t2 sieges, but hey, that condition lasts only what .. approx 16 days or so ? If this change goes live on TQ.
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Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.13 14:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ruato Ive been thinking about this and i simply cant figure what problem they are trying to fix with this change.
Answer: Raven'ized ISK farmers. If You're crying in this thread - Youre headless ISK farmer. If You have head over Your body, You'll see real reazon for this change.
(Hope I'll never see words "trow Rokh, get a Raven" in future)
But i'd agree that 6sec fly time is slightly unfair. Something about 10 with that slow speed will be more useful. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 14:16:00 -
[50]
I'm thinking that the torpedoes change was headed in the right direction, but went too far. Yes, they needed more damage and didn't need all their current range. However, nerfing the torpedo range so badly is a big blow to Caldari. The main advantage of Caldari "short-range" weapons is they out-range almost any other short-range weapon out there. Now megapulses... heck, even autocannons to some degree can out-range the torpedo.
CCP, keep the RoF buff (or maybe swap for a torpedo damage buff, whichever goes), and reduce the severity of the range nerf. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr BAD ATTITUDES
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Posted - 2007.10.13 15:08:00 -
[51]
Maybe the torpedo changes are in preparation for the new T2 Battleships coming out.
And maybe you guys should just use cruise missiles on your ravens. It's possible to solo lvl 4's with Cruise missiles and to rat with cruise missiles (with no target painters). ---
Put in space whales!
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Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.13 16:18:00 -
[52]
Hmm... 7.5 sec fly time at 1750 speed. Match said that it will be close to 30km range without usual .9 correction for hitting moving targets. (With maxed skills of course) -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
Cyberus
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 16:35:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Cyberus on 13/10/2007 16:35:25 well up to you what it is nerf or boost. this is my experiance on sisi with t1 torps:
*Rof +/- 6 seconds with t2 launshers *range with t1 tors 30 km ( meaby bit more) T2 long range over 150 km *explosion radius on t1 torps 375m ( so lower as Bs signature that mean max impact at 0 km moving target) *explosion velosety ( tbh did not look at that but its defenetly faster as the normal cruise speed of BS)
So if you see that as an nerf up to you, but what i see is an boost for my own cause now i will defenelt use more often torpedos in pvp on my raven cause they will now much better after patch then its now. The range on torps was almost never so realy important in pvp engagments and defenetly with so slow cruise speed of torps, now we have big version of close combat HAM's for larger ships.
For PVE i will simply will advise ppl dont be too lazy and get skill up to 5 so you can train for t2 launshers they are much cheaper then the best named versions anyway, so you will be able shoot with t2 long range torps, atleast if i was in your position i did so cause i like that ship and i like now that after so huge nerf before they made something atleast prety useble on torps now.
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Cyberus
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 16:40:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Cyberus on 13/10/2007 16:41:13
Originally by: Awox Hahahah. This is great.
Ratting torp-ravens are now even easier to kill, orbit at 23km and hope they don't have javelins (most don't).. not to mention it will be more difficult to align and insta-warp to safety (approaching to get into range) and no more "look I can make 140km sniper bookmarks and npc from there" ravens.
Awox approves.
Also, I might fly a Siege Raven on one of my characters. Sounds like it has good damage potential!
Its 30 km actualy maxed, so up to you m8, if you want stay out of scram range on that raven then you can avoid the t1 torps, if not then you have to deal with the damage with much better rof now.
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Gavin Darklighter
The Burning Orphans Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.10.13 16:55:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 13/10/2007 17:02:49 Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 13/10/2007 17:00:50 Can someone get some screens of the Siege II launcher, a T1 torp, a Jav torp, a Rage torp, and a Navy torp?
I for one LOVE the idea of a high-dps shortrange torp. However I don't like the idea of an increased explosion radius, and ideally I would like to see fitting requirments for siege and cruise swapped to reflect the fitting requirements of short and long range turrets. Also the base range on the torps should be longer than HAMs for no other reason than battleship weapons have longer range than cruiser weapons.
Originally by: Princess Kohana Edited by: Princess Kohana on 13/10/2007 04:03:10 Edited by: Princess Kohana on 13/10/2007 04:02:40 This is no joke... Here is the stats..
(qoutes are the nerf)
Juggernaut Torpedo
Volume: 0.1 (Explosion Velocity): 530m (MAX FLIGHT TIME): 6.00 Sec. Max Velocity: 1,500 m/sec Tech Level: 1 Used with: Missile Launcher Siege Inertia Modifer: 1,000 Kinetic Damage: 450 Base Shield Damage: 270.0 Base Armor Damage: 337.5
Whats the explosion radius? You listed explosion velocity as the value that others have claimed for explosion radius, but you did not list the radius stat yourself.
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MrBadidea
Caldari Applied Eugenics Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:49:00 -
[56]
So I ask; are Caldari finally going to have their mass looked at? I seem to recall Caldari ships being turned into the dogs they are as a way of balancing out the imba missiles we used to have. If this doesn't get looked at, it'll be 2 missile "changes," with the original nerf to the ships themselves not being removed.
I don't mind loosing all my Range, but at the same time, you're trying to make it as hard as possible for me to get into that range. And let's not even talk about how bad the Tank will be after dropping so much of it to fit the modules you'll need to take advantage of the torps.
---
MrBadidea's ePeen strikes YOUR EGO Wrecking for EMOCIDE
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Aduna
Empire Market Corporation Eve Trade Union
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:07:00 -
[57]
worst. idea. ever.
Originally by: James 315 Goon logistics may have the most efficient manner of griefing BoB that there is:every Goon tower in a BoB system is a punch in BoB's stomach and a middle finger to Dianabolic's crew |
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:27:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 18:29:55 This truly sucks. Period.
Having gone on the test server to try them out, I can say the new torps are absolutely worthless without a painter, and the use of one precludes your ability to fit any other sort of PvP mods while still tanking. Moreover, with the raven's sluggish handling and extremely crap speed, it's unable to adjust its range to close with a target.
Amongst all the changes to the raven, torps, and siege launchers, this is, by far, the worst. It takes an already sub-par ship (in PvP) and makes it useless. Moreover, its capabilities at one thing it was good at (PvE) also get massively reduced.
To sum it up, post-torp change, the raven:
* Sucks even more in PvP: check. * Is no longer all that great in PvE, either: check.
Okay, so why would anyone ever want to fly one, again?
Please, CCP, reconsider, I truly cannot understand why a nerf to an already underpowered weapons system (and the ship that uses it) is necessary.
TBH, if you feel you have to do this, the raven would only be viable if you drastically reduced its mass and inertia modifier, gave it about 1500 extra grid and 70 extra CPU (for MWD and also general needs), moved a highslot to a midslot (also for MWD), and set the explosion radius of torps back to the TQ level of 400. At that point, a PvP raven fitting might look like:
6 siege II 1 medium unstable energy neutralizer
1 XL shield booster II 1 quad LiF 100MN MWD (or T2) 1 warp disruptor II 2 invulnerability field II 1 shield boost amp II 1 heavy cap booster II
2 ballistic control II 1 damage control II 1 RCU II 1 co-processor II
Rigs would either be cap recharge or shield mods.
It still wouldn't be the best, but it would be useful in small gang operations. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Soulles
Caldari Fatal Union
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:49:00 -
[59]
Thats 1 account that wont be renewed if this change goes though. All i see lately is nerf this nerf that. So we train to only get screwed over in the end. A 30k range on a torp is ridicules. So now caldari battleships become the bottom feeders if they plan on using torps. And a cruise raven dps is a joke compared to any other battleship.
So now we have to use a target painter (1 less slot for a tank), A MWD will be a must for a pvp torp raven (Minus another mid slot for a tank). So now we have to deal with a 4 slot tank or 3 if you used a injector.
While your at it make sure you change the description of the Caldari to what it actually is. A pathetic out classed race thats ships pale in comparison to all other races battleships. Not this for the raven
"The Raven is the powerhouse of the Caldari Navy. With its myriad launcher slots and powerful shields, few ships can rival it in strength or majesty."
and this for the race it self as a whole
"they are still universally feared and admired. Their economy is strong, and their military might parallel to that of the larger empires. Coupled to the fact that they are more unscrupulous than the Gallenteans and more combative than the Amarrians."
Thanks for another nerf and relieving me of paying for another account.
There is some basic things to follow when creating a game heres a link to give the developers a clue.
http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2004/05/nerf.html
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Vulture Virtue
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:55:00 -
[60]
I don't know what people are thinking, but torps are freaking awesome now.
The change brings them line with other races high damage battleships. I agree that mass/agility sucks, but as long as you carry around at least 1 type of javelin ammo, you won't be out of range, ever.
I love my new torps!!!
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