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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 17:55:00 -
[1]
And give us a yellow megathron.
THX ________________________________________
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Jslice
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.23 17:55:00 -
[2]
Signed
CCP HATES AMARR, its official now.
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.10.23 17:56:00 -
[3]
/signed
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 17:58:00 -
[4]
oh so signed... or yellow space turd - domi, either will work
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goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 17:59:00 -
[5]
/Signed __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:00:00 -
[6]
/stamped
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Khaladan
Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:01:00 -
[7]
Agreed... what did Amarr do to deserve the worst BS and the worst Marauder?
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Myra2007
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:10:00 -
[8]
I am disgusted. This isnt funny anymore.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:21:00 -
[9]
/signed
C.
- sig designer - eve mail
Low Sec Idea |
Frothgar
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:41:00 -
[10]
I hate to do it, but agreed. Its such a worthless ship.
Beautiful art, lovely story and lore to the race itself, so many of their ships are downright awful.
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Harajuku Kedo
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:47:00 -
[11]
Maybe the Amarr just aren't very good at designing and building ships...?
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K'reemy G'udness
Gimme Gimme Gimme
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:48:00 -
[12]
Is this just midslot envy? You guys should just train Gallente.
Sincerely, K'reemy ---
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:48:00 -
[13]
I usually don't do these threads, but the pure garbage that is the Paladin is ******* disgusting. I wasn't expecting it to be as good as the Gallente version, because nothing ever is, but I was expecting more than this piece of ****.
While you're at it, fix the damned Vargur as well. At least the Paladin can fit Tachyons reasonably well, good luck getting howitzers on that thing. I don't think you can even fit 1200mms, let alone 1400mms.
/signed
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Ekaterina Volkova
Caldari Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:07:00 -
[14]
Signed. Does anyone at CPP fly amarr?
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Cpt Constantinus
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:09:00 -
[15]
signed
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Jack Thurner
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:12:00 -
[16]
Signed. |
Raxlar Kalimar
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:16:00 -
[17]
Signed....I dont even play amar but I do regard all there ships as easy targets and I have friends who suffer.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:56:00 -
[18]
/signed
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:02:00 -
[19]
signed ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Prophaniti013
Solar Fist Sempiternus
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:03:00 -
[20]
/signed
Can i exchange my 1.5 years of amarr skill training into another race, possibly gallentte or minnie?
I'm ****ing tired of this ****
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Arnold Duncan
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:05:00 -
[21]
/signed
a golden domi would be nice too if mega is not available
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:16:00 -
[22]
/signed ________________ Rev 3 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf! -Apocalypse is no longer the worst Battleship! Paladin is. -Redeemer costs 1b isk and cant cloak! -Devoter brings more fail to Amarr Cruisers |
AlexCA
Amarr De Valken BV Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:17:00 -
[23]
/signed Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Forum Moderator ([email protected]) |
Captain Plumb
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:23:00 -
[24]
Dont fly Amarr, but have been on ops with those that do, and even they admit that Amarr needs work. /Signed
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Cryselle
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:23:00 -
[25]
I'm simply disgusted
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The Mormegil
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:29:00 -
[26]
aslong as it comes with a bubble and a hearthstone im happy |
Idxx
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:30:00 -
[27]
Signed
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MarzenBier
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:34:00 -
[28]
I suport the idea
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Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:37:00 -
[29]
ccp, and esp tuxford. get a grip. seriously.
i feel more shafted that a big titted women in the late 70's
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:10:00 -
[30]
/me holds his apoc close while cowering in the corner rocking slowly back and forth.
Im so tired of waiting for my training to pay off.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:16:00 -
[31]
So very, very signed.
I also second the "disgusted" attitude. __________________________________
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Surreptitious
Isk Sink Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:20:00 -
[32]
Signed
Amarr as a whole is a joke, not just the Paladin.
Paladin is a stupid-ass name btw. Doesnt seem to fit a race thats notorious for ruthless conquest and enslaving an entire race of people.
Syrup
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kerdrak And give us a yellow megathron.
THX
/signed
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:23:00 -
[34]
Whew, good thing game design isn't a democracy.
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Rachag
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:30:00 -
[35]
/signed
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Surreptitious Signed
Amarr as a whole is a joke, not just the Paladin.
Paladin is a stupid-ass name btw. Doesnt seem to fit a race thats notorious for ruthless conquest and enslaving an entire race of people.
Syrup
The historical meaning of paladin refers to a person of very high status in the church, such a chamberlain to the pope, or later as an inquisitor of the church. It was only later in fiction and fantasy writing that people started to rip the religious significance from the title. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:39:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 23/10/2007 22:40:53
Originally by: Surreptitious Signed
Amarr as a whole is a joke, not just the Paladin.
Paladin is a stupid-ass name btw. Doesnt seem to fit a race thats notorious for ruthless conquest and enslaving an entire race of people.
Syrup
Actually the name is good. The Amarr view themselves as doing Gods good work and Paladins are Amarr holy soldiers of some type.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - The Prophet Kuria "Paladin's Creed"
EDIT: Also, the title Paladin refers to the 12 knight-retainers of Charlemagne in medieval literature, and as such refers to knights that encompass the knightly virtues. I'm sure the Paladins of the Amarr faith encompass (or try to encompass) all the traits that are cherished by the Amarr. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Low Blow
Amarr Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Whew, good thing game design isn't a democracy.
yes
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shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Low Blow
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Whew, good thing game design isn't a democracy.
yes
Hmmm... I wonder. Whats more likely, the vast majority are crazy, or the tiny minority are crazy?
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Aro Tolan
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:58:00 -
[40]
Only thing I had a problem with is that it shares the web bonus with the Gallente marauder which has a damage bonus in place of the cap size bonus plus a larger drone bay+bandwidth to boot. So overall tons more damage am I right?
It just looks like the Gallente one but with less oomph...
The normal apoc needs to be changed though. ------
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N Ano
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:07:00 -
[41]
signage (ex amarr pilot)
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Lithalnas
Amarr Headcrabs
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:13:00 -
[42]
other than turning it into some sort of newtpoc there is no difference between a navypoc + EANM + faction webs and a Paladin. Other than the navypoc is cheaper by almost 300m isk. -------------
fixed for greater eve content |
Chaplain Veritas
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:13:00 -
[43]
/sign ____________________________ the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist |
Theodwyn
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:39:00 -
[44]
/DISAGREED -- learn to fly amarr ships
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Gavin Neltharek
Caldari Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:50:00 -
[45]
/Signed
Get rid of this peice of **** and give us a decent ship for once. Stop shafting Amarr ships already. <----------------------------------> Carebears aren't people, they're giant flying piniatas.
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Closer Still
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:14:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Closer Still on 24/10/2007 01:15:07
Originally by: Surreptitious Signed
Amarr as a whole is a joke, not just the Paladin.
Paladin is a stupid-ass name btw. Doesnt seem to fit a race thats notorious for ruthless conquest and enslaving an entire race of people.
Syrup
amarr is notorious for ruthless conquest? what, conquering high sec belts in apocs?
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Closer Still
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:15:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Closer Still on 24/10/2007 01:14:53 bah double post
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shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Closer Still amarr is notorious for ruthless conquest? what, conquesting high sec belts in apocs?
You know the worst part about that? I used to use an apoc to mine, and it was great at it. Now the Rokh stomps all over it. They even took mining away from the apoc.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:24:00 -
[49]
Yea I must say I agree on this. - - - - - - - - -
I freely admit to sucking royally at photoshop.
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Howling Jinn
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:35:00 -
[50]
next in line to my claymore and broadsword, and a paladin i want a warlock cruiser with magic. i want to overload the magic on a warlock!
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Aral Sllew
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:40:00 -
[51]
/signed
apoc contains more epic fail than me and that means a lot
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Nhoj Sllew
Amarr Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:41:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Aral Sllew /signed
apoc contains more epic fail than me and that means a lot
this was me, stupid forum, but it just reinforces my point -- Peanut Swsh > is peoke really a small african child with an extremely poor grasp on the english language?
IE-EX 0.0 We hate you too. |
Rockbox
Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:44:00 -
[53]
Remove the Apoc ---->> insert golden domi------->> PROFT!!1??!1
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:45:00 -
[54]
/signed
Ever since the T3 BS came out, I don't even use it in its supposed niche anymore. The Rokh just outmines it so bad it's not funny.
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Robert Lewis
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:49:00 -
[55]
I am singing this as hard as I can. Total crap.
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Via Trebona
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:50:00 -
[56]
/signed
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BlackKnight1717
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:07:00 -
[57]
Dont you guys see?
Its a paladin its gotta pray for its enemy to die, because it sure as hell cant shoot them.
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Rockbox
Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: BlackKnight1717 Dont you guys see?
Its a paladin its gotta pray for its enemy to die, because it sure as hell cant shoot them.
ahahahaha epic
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Lord Berk
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:36:00 -
[59]
Possibly the first petition I've...
/signed
--------------------------------
Nice Apoc! Going mining? |
Zorrax M'Hael
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:44:00 -
[60]
/signed
Please...for the love of God...stop it CCP...stop it...
Anyone noticed that the largest faction in EVE lore flies ships that get ******* smoked by everyone else...how have the minmatar not destroyed the Empire yet is beyond me...
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Zorrax M'Hael /signed
Please...for the love of God...stop it CCP...stop it...
Anyone noticed that the largest faction in EVE lore flies ships that get ******* smoked by everyone else...how have the minmatar not destroyed the Empire yet is beyond me...
Largest faction being the key word. Not even high EM resist can save you from the blob.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 04:32:00 -
[62]
/signed and stamped
No more sucky ships please and fix the old ones after your rampage with the nerf bat in the face of amarr.
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Evilya Fazil
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Posted - 2007.10.24 06:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ekaterina Volkova Signed. Does anyone at CPP fly amarr?
They did until amarr were nerfed in '05 and all began flying other races...
For god's sake, /SIGNED
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Horus Dark
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Posted - 2007.10.24 07:03:00 -
[64]
/signed
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Rockbox
Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 07:58:00 -
[65]
Just keep posting in this thread untill it gets A) Locked or B) Acknowledged by ccp
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Angelic Eviaran
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:03:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Rockbox Just keep posting in this thread untill it gets A) Locked or B) Acknowledged by ccp
Dton forget to post on the other amarr threads. There is a reason why there are 324436 threads about it and 65234 pages to go with each one.
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Rockbox
Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:10:00 -
[67]
true, more the merrier tbh
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Sheamis Kast
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:17:00 -
[68]
/signed
Are you guys even trying anymore?
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus /stamped
that would be nice,
and Deschenus, stop training Minmatar you coward. . . -----------
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Rutefly
Amarr Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:22:00 -
[70]
And while were at it, bring lasers to Caldari for laughs Bwahahahh !
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:33:00 -
[71]
/Signed
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Princess Kristie
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:52:00 -
[72]
Sign.....
Signed..
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:03:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 24/10/2007 09:03:22 cant they just give us the domi slotlayout and change a mid or two for a few lows. that way we will get a BS for those that went drones and played with the arbitrator...
...and it would help the apoc suck less monkey#&%!!!
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Formulka
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:10:00 -
[74]
/signed
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr Lai Dai Innovations
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:20:00 -
[75]
/signed
Well yeah it is an navoc in my sig... and it looks kinda usefull and frontline - so what... dare to dream, dare to dream...
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari Dark Prophecy Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:24:00 -
[76]
Make apoc a torp ship, and make the paladin a T2 torp ship, since golem is a T2 cruise missile ship.
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Blutreiter
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:08:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 24/10/2007 09:03:22 cant they just give us the domi slotlayout and change a mid or two for a few lows. that way we will get a BS for those that went drones and played with the arbitrator...
...and it would help the apoc suck less monkey#&%!!!
You mean before the drone bandwidth nerf thats coming to the Arbi class ships, right? *sob*
Also...
/SIGNED
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up |
Ajde
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:20:00 -
[78]
/signed
It's really usless. I used to use it a lot, but now with Abaddon it's just a piece of junk. I take Abaddon over Navy Apoc any day... Not to mention that it looks like a bunny just had a bite in a piece of metal...
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fgreedryu
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:20:00 -
[79]
Signed!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what the hell is wrong with you CCP, what the hell is wrong with your company?
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Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:22:00 -
[80]
/signed ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death |
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Balthareiks
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:25:00 -
[81]
/signed
God help us... where will we end up... is Amarr empire getting more stupid every day? My god... rockets? Never! I am Amarr and will not use rockets! I need guns - big ones! I melt, I chew, but I do NOT shoot missiles or rockets!
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr Lai Dai Innovations
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:28:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Kersh Marelor on 24/10/2007 10:29:36
Originally by: "Benn Helmsman" Make apoc a torp ship, and make the paladin a T2 torp ship, since golem is a T2 cruise missile ship.
The way I see it, apoc is the representation of Amarrian way of waging wars on other and crushing the infidels, at least that's what it's supposed to be when you read the description in-game: '...these golden, metallic monstrosities are still feared and respected as enduring symbols of Amarrian might.' Ok, there is a lot of lies in that one sentence, but probably that where this ship should be pushed by CCP. And when it comes to Amarrian mights its lasers, armor and cap, not torps. Well but that's just me, CCP will probably make a wonderful tractor, or 'fly-around-the-empire-and shine-baby' boat :/
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Cho U
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:28:00 -
[83]
signed
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BlackKnight1717
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman Make apoc a torp ship, and make the paladin a T2 torp ship, since golem is a T2 cruise missile ship.
HaHa, i can see CCP doing that just to make my large laser specs lvl 5 worthless.
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Belle Vedette
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:30:00 -
[85]
triple signed
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Noissim Erohw
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:31:00 -
[86]
/signed
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Born Slippy
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:51:00 -
[87]
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
/me did my part
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Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:56:00 -
[88]
As I stated in another thread.
CCP is going through a phase of "pre-nerfing"
Anything new that comes to Amarr they pre-nerf and normally it stays that way.
They do not have the backbone to make a big change (like to lasers)
They are too pansy to make the changes and I have been saying this for years - NOTHING will EVER get better with Amarr, if you trained amarr and spec'ed in it you will forever be behind the other races in certain areas
CCP are just not willing to make the drastic change needed to balance amarr correctly. THEY HAVE NO BACKBONE TO DO SO
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:09:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Wizzkidy NOTHING will EVER get better with Amarr
*cough* Khanid *cough*
Of cource, you might argue that they got better because they were changed to non-amarr ships.
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UGLYUGLY
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:16:00 -
[90]
/signed
I fly every race, never really spec in anyone, but I always had a soft spot for Amarr ships. It was the first T2 ship I trained (vengeance). And out of all of them Amarr have got it the worst.
The problem with most amarr ships is that they don't get two bonuses. They get one bonus and a second bonuses that isn't a real bonus, it's just there so they can use their primary weapon (lasers). And lasers aren't that better than any other gun to justify this as a bonus.
This is why the majority of the best amarr ships are the new improved T2 ships, because they get real bonuses. They don't have this 10% cap reduction "bonus" non sense.
CCP need to give amarr ships a real second bonus and reduce laser energy usage.
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Higgous
Gallente Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:23:00 -
[91]
/signed 'Lister to Red Dwarf....' |
Pwn Tang
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:24:00 -
[92]
/signed
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:31:00 -
[93]
Edited by: N1fty on 24/10/2007 11:33:22
/signed, see below for rant:
Something must be done about the crapocalypse.
10% to laser cap use is *meant* to be seen as a damage bonus because lasers *supposedly* have higher base damage. We all know this to be a total lie because lasers have been damage nerfed repeatedly for the past 2 years. Heatsink nerf, Pulse nerf, EANMII + resistance skills, DCU... All nerf's to Amarr superior base damage.
Make heatsinks better, tweak base EM resistances, reduce laser cap need, give Amarr more cap or something! Constructive ideas were posted on how to fix amarr, that was a couple of YEARS ago. Now its degraded into whining and petitions. Maybe CCP can fix this problem? Before more people train min/gallente. Theres a reason why Amarr have fewest ships ingame according to the economists blog! ============================================
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Aieda
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:37:00 -
[94]
/signed
It¦s just like in another mmorpg: the Paladin just can¦t do any damage
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Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:44:00 -
[95]
im getting pretty tired of this. lol arbi got a nerf now even. For those who are munching scat atm and doesnt get it. That makes every single amarr cruiser subpar.
fix the apoc ffs fix the grid fittings on beams ffs fix the cap usage on lasers, hint cut it with 50% and give the ships some god damned real bonuses
i could do those bonuses much better than ccp rejects doing atm and thats saying alot
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:49:00 -
[96]
Don't try to fix it. Don't replace it.
Just...just get it out of my sight. We can pretend it never happened.
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:58:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Dristra on 24/10/2007 13:04:08 Edited by: Dristra on 24/10/2007 13:03:44
Originally by: Royaldo im getting pretty tired of this. lol arbi got a nerf now even. For those who are munching scat atm and doesnt get it. That makes every single amarr cruiser subpar.
fix the apoc ffs fix the grid fittings on beams ffs fix the cap usage on lasers, hint cut it with 50% and give the ships some god damned real bonuses
i could do those bonuses much better than ccp rejects doing atm and thats saying alot
I agree. But how did the arbi get nerfed? it just used 5 meds, and it can still do that, but with more spares, right?
Edit: OMGLOL, arby is nerfed down to 50 drone bandwidth, yet vexor get 75???? Curse and pilgrim got nerfed too... wtf is this, the ccp hate amarr day?
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Blutreiter
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:10:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Blutreiter on 24/10/2007 13:11:24
Originally by: Dristra Edited by: Dristra on 24/10/2007 13:04:08 Edited by: Dristra on 24/10/2007 13:03:44
Originally by: Royaldo im getting pretty tired of this. lol arbi got a nerf now even. For those who are munching scat atm and doesnt get it. That makes every single amarr cruiser subpar.
fix the apoc ffs fix the grid fittings on beams ffs fix the cap usage on lasers, hint cut it with 50% and give the ships some god damned real bonuses
i could do those bonuses much better than ccp rejects doing atm and thats saying alot
I agree. But how did the arbi get nerfed? it just used 5 meds, and it can still do that, but with more spares, right?
Edit: OMGLOL, arby is nerfed down to 50 drone bandwidth, yet vexor get 75???? Curse and pilgrim got nerfed too... wtf is this, the ccp hate amarr day?
Regarding the Arbi nerf:
CCP hates Amarr, it's official now...
Try using 3 Sentry drones. Not possible anymore with 50m^3.
Also consider 2 heavy 2 med and 1 light drone loadout.
Yes people actually use that. YES VEXORS DO TOO. And why the hell do Vexors get more bandwidth AND TURRET DAMAGE BONUSES ON TOP?
ffs, up to date i never whined. Now i'm abusing my shift key.
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up |
Dohat
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:56:00 -
[99]
/signed in triplicate
/initialed here
/and here
/and here
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Yadee
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:12:00 -
[100]
As i posted in a diff thread, i am getting sick of this
I havent had the urge to log on in weeks now, and i doubt i reactivate when my accounts run out now. Here i was, hoping rev3 would bring something nice for amarr, yet gallente is the race getting the (relatively) good ships, shocker
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Nyx STeeLGamers
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:18:00 -
[101]
im flying gallente, Gallente ships is closerange, and can be used to solo, but i would NOT make a sniperthron, amarr ships is used for sniping, and a gang boat. but someway, amarr ships seems abit too nerfed maybe. but dont expect them to make them closeranged, maybe some more damage/cap/cpu/powergrid should do it maybe. but lets see what CCP have to do with all thoes,(/signed) :P
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Alexace
Gallente Bright New Dawn Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:20:00 -
[102]
signed....
I am a major lurker here, but I had to post. As a gallente pilot that switched to amarr (i only had like 1.5 million sp when i switched). Oh how i regret my desicion.
Amarr need to be brought up to an even level with the other races. a 60% laser role bonus for all amarr ships and another "real" bonus would fix at least 90% of amarrian problems. Fix beam fitting and you are pretty good to go.
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:28:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Kerdrak on 24/10/2007 14:28:25 I didn't realized about abritrator nerf, WTF? Why now arbitrator is worst than vexor? this is stupid and I'm starting to get rired of this...
I have used the arbitrator "sniper setup" with 3 sentry drones for fun, now I can't? Come on CCP, hire people with a clue about balance, stop weasting money and resources in stupid things and make this game playable and balanced. ________________________________________
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Mrski Okupator
Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 15:17:00 -
[104]
So tired...
/signs with last drop of ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven.
What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez. |
Kazuma Saruwatari
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 15:20:00 -
[105]
/signed.
Amarr are getting nerfed when they DONT need it to begin with. They're already the most whined-about race for good reason, and they're being whined about by people who dont fly them, saying they do need a boost.
Thank you CCP for invalidating 6 months of my training regiment. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
Blutreiter
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 15:43:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Blutreiter on 24/10/2007 15:44:04
Originally by: Kerdrak Edited by: Kerdrak on 24/10/2007 14:28:25 I didn't realized about abritrator nerf, WTF? Why now arbitrator is worst than vexor? this is stupid and I'm starting to get rired of this...
I have used the arbitrator "sniper setup" with 3 sentry drones for fun, now I can't? Come on CCP, hire people with a clue about balance, stop weasting money and resources in stupid things and make this game playable and balanced.
This ^
It's not only a fun setup, it's very decent in combat. Actually my primary fitting.
Also please note that this nerf basically kills the Arbitrator at it's strong point, flexibility.
And because drones are it's only serious weapon system this pretty much lowers the effectiveness of the Arbitrator as the only true "unbroken" cruiser Amarr have, bringing us from 2 useless and 1 good tank but still subpar to other races (Maller) and one true competitive cruiser (not overpowered, mind you)... to...
2 useless and 2 subpar cruisers.
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up |
Brianna Talnor
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 15:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Don't try to fix it. Don't replace it.
Just...just get it out of my sight. We can pretend it never happened.
Don't worry...you never will see one
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 15:57:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Blutreiter Edited by: Blutreiter on 24/10/2007 13:11:24
Originally by: Dristra Edited by: Dristra on 24/10/2007 13:04:08 Edited by: Dristra on 24/10/2007 13:03:44
Originally by: Royaldo im getting pretty tired of this. lol arbi got a nerf now even. For those who are munching scat atm and doesnt get it. That makes every single amarr cruiser subpar.
fix the apoc ffs fix the grid fittings on beams ffs fix the cap usage on lasers, hint cut it with 50% and give the ships some god damned real bonuses
i could do those bonuses much better than ccp rejects doing atm and thats saying alot
I agree. But how did the arbi get nerfed? it just used 5 meds, and it can still do that, but with more spares, right?
Edit: OMGLOL, arby is nerfed down to 50 drone bandwidth, yet vexor get 75???? Curse and pilgrim got nerfed too... wtf is this, the ccp hate amarr day?
Regarding the Arbi nerf:
CCP hates Amarr, it's official now...
Try using 3 Sentry drones. Not possible anymore with 50m^3.
Also consider 2 heavy 2 med and 1 light drone loadout.
Yes people actually use that. YES VEXORS DO TOO. And why the hell do Vexors get more bandwidth AND TURRET DAMAGE BONUSES ON TOP?
ffs, up to date i never whined. Now i'm abusing my shift key.
I hope they fix the rest of our cruisers if they go through with the arbi nerf. If not amarr is going to have 4 useless cruisers instead of 3. GG ccp.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:59:00 -
[109]
/SIGNED!!!!!!11111
Comeon CCP, get the head out of your ass. Its redicilous what u are doing with this game. FIX AMARR!
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:59:00 -
[110]
Yeah the Arby nerf was totally uncalled for. I never saw anyone complain that it was overpowered. Guess it just had to be brought inline with the other Amarr t1 cruisers.
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.24 16:14:00 -
[111]
amarr just plain suck right now i've been playing for aboout 2 years and have only seen 1 (one) apoc. and yes it was mining. amarr ammo can be siphoned out of their cargohold. who else has that kind of disadvantage. i am starting to play amarr just to see what it is like. i'm not going to train skills because that would be pointless. --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.24 16:16:00 -
[112]
The Arbi might do less DPS now, but its got an absolutly huge drone bay.
This means it can fit 2 flights of mediums and 2 flights of lights. That is pretty impressive and much more versitile than the vexor. Even if its dps is a bit lower due to not being able to field the 2/2/1 drone setup.
I mean you can do this with an arbi now
5x Hammerhead 5x Med ECM 5x Warrior 5x Light Armor Maint
That is:
1. The ability to rep others after a battle. 2. The ability to damage larger, slower ships with thermal damage 3. The ability to damage smaller, faster ships with explosive damage 4. The ability to jam targets.
Cant do it all at the same time, but it doesnt have to refit in order to do this. Which frankly is pretty fantastic.
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Kai Shinkachi
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Posted - 2007.10.24 16:20:00 -
[113]
/signed, fix amarr...
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Blutreiter
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:24:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Goumindong The Arbi might do less DPS now, but its got an absolutly huge drone bay.
This means it can fit 2 flights of mediums and 2 flights of lights. That is pretty impressive and much more versitile than the vexor. Even if its dps is a bit lower due to not being able to field the 2/2/1 drone setup.
I mean you can do this with an arbi now
5x Hammerhead 5x Med ECM 5x Warrior 5x Light Armor Maint
That is:
1. The ability to rep others after a battle. 2. The ability to damage larger, slower ships with thermal damage 3. The ability to damage smaller, faster ships with explosive damage 4. The ability to jam targets.
Cant do it all at the same time, but it doesnt have to refit in order to do this. Which frankly is pretty fantastic.
Which also means the less DPS - less bandwidth Arbi will also let me rat much worse because I cannot compensate for missing tank breaking damage like the Vexor with the bonused turrets and it kills EW drone setups and Sentry setups.
Because most EW drones come with stacking penalty, meaning 3 heavy EW drones work better then 5 medium ones.
Also, no sentries anymore for the Arbitrator... using only 2 Sentries? I mean... cutting 33% of the current possible sentry dps? No way... even if I now could theoretically use 3 different "duets" of sentries... honestly AAAARGH
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up |
hgewwe
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:54:00 -
[115]
Edited by: hgewwe on 24/10/2007 16:55:11
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TIlle
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:55:00 -
[116]
/signed
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macktruck6666
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:57:00 -
[117]
Edited by: macktruck6666 on 24/10/2007 17:02:25
/signed
Amarr really needed a real second bonus. The influx of complaints in the last 24hours shows what people think about these ships.
I'm not totally opposed to the arbitrator change, but I can see how people can become frustrated. I like how it is.
A few days ago there was Armageddon Day where everyone got infinite skills. What would happen if everyone had max out skills for only the amarr skills and if only amarr ship were seeded. I have a feeling that no one would log onto the server.
I know you guys are doing allot of work, but please fix the ships.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.24 17:37:00 -
[118]
/Signed
But I would prefer them to CORRECT the dam ship, sicne is such a nice hull
Lets make this thread BIGGEr than the carrier one. Bring everyone you know that have Ammar BS to post here.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2007.10.24 17:51:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 24/10/2007 17:54:13 Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 24/10/2007 17:52:31 Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 24/10/2007 17:51:46 Well.. Waiting for something is one thing, then seeing the manifestation of the fact, that changes seem to be not even in concept, but that the old failure is preserved, is honestly devastating.
I use the Apoc as mission boat, since it gives me a bit of peace of mind, with my not to shining amount of skill points.
Nevertheless, everytime I look at my ship options as Amarr, I see quite limited possiblities.
25% cap bonus on laser usage for amarr ships, and a second bonus on some would really go quite some way. Give the Apoc a 2.5% or 5% rep bonus per level instead of the current laser cap reduction. That would finally make it the tank boat again, that it was used as before. So we would have geddon -> DPS, apoc -> tank, baddon -> versatility.
As far as the changes to the arbitrator are concerned, I will wait to whine or praise until we know how ewar and other drones will be changed and if new drone classes are introduced.
If the no-shield-repair-on-scoop drone nerf, really goes live though and the FUBAR situation related to drones in mission does not change, it will make them pretty useless with regards to their cost/effect relation.
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The ArchWarder
Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 17:54:00 -
[120]
/Signed
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hylleX
Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.24 18:05:00 -
[121]
Save us from the apocs!!!! and maller, prophecy, omen, augoror, zealot, pilgrim.... actually its easier saying which to keep... so Geddon, abso, sac, curse is ok i guess...
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Mutlu Palutli
Asur Heavy Industries United Connection's
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Posted - 2007.10.24 18:39:00 -
[122]
First time ever I have to do this, but...
/Signed ---------
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Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 19:01:00 -
[123]
/Signed
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Xaliendraa Khaine
Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:09:00 -
[124]
So Sick of this Amarr mess I am in...
/Signed
PS As a possoble savior of my sanity, have started the long road to cross-training in gallente if this does not work; starting over essentially
Thx a Lot CCP
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:22:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 24/10/2007 19:25:23
/signed
This is just so...arghhh! I'd really, really, REALLY love to hear from a Dev what they were thinking. How they could sit in their room when designing these ships and think, "Yep, looks good to us" when thousands of their players are in universal agreement that this ship is pure fail. Are the Devs privy to some super-sekrit setup no one else has figured out? Some amazing tactic where the Crapocalypse Mk2 shines? Is it one of those things where the numbers look good on paper but no one actually bothers to try it and see that their spreadsheet and reality have nothing in common? Cuz no one else is seeing it.
No I am not going to cancel my 15 accounts and have my 1000 friends do the same but honestly I find this hugely annoying and a complete travesty. It really is to the point where all I can think is that the Devs just really, really hate Amarr. Nothing else makes sense. Maybe the guy(s) doing this got melted once too often by a geddon many years ago and are still in payback mode.
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gavhriel
Amarr Critical Analysis Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:30:00 -
[126]
/signed
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr Heretic Army Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:35:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Goumindong The Arbi might do less DPS now, but its got an absolutly huge drone bay.
This means it can fit 2 flights of mediums and 2 flights of lights. That is pretty impressive and much more versitile than the vexor. Even if its dps is a bit lower due to not being able to field the 2/2/1 drone setup.
I mean you can do this with an arbi now
5x Hammerhead 5x Med ECM 5x Warrior 5x Light Armor Maint
That is:
1. The ability to rep others after a battle. 2. The ability to damage larger, slower ships with thermal damage 3. The ability to damage smaller, faster ships with explosive damage 4. The ability to jam targets.
Cant do it all at the same time, but it doesnt have to refit in order to do this. Which frankly is pretty fantastic.
I'm with you on this. Maybe it's because I never used the mixed setup, but multiple flights of mediums make me happy. I've never been the one for "throw everything you've got and if any thing goes wrong you're ******" setups. I like spares on a destructible weapon system.
/me huggles his Curse.
So the Vexor gets guns with it, so what. I've got mids and backups. People seem to forget that Vexor is designed for damage, Arbitrator is designed for EWar with self-defense. Look at the paths Vexor-->Ishtar; Arbitrator-->Curse/Pilgrim.
Can't say anything about the Marauders though, as I'm no BS pilot. --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it.
Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
hattifnatt
Gallente The Movement
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:40:00 -
[128]
Edited by: hattifnatt on 24/10/2007 19:40:23 /jumps on the /signed bandwagon i suxz at grammar, k? |
Dread Emperor
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:58:00 -
[129]
i guess euthanasia isn't such a bad thing.
/sigened
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Kavol Valarius
Amarr Unity of Honor
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Posted - 2007.10.24 20:03:00 -
[130]
I have the patience of a saint.. but it is wearing extremely thin.
Signed to high hell and back. -----
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CaperPuts
Minmatar Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 20:12:00 -
[131]
Edited by: CaperPuts on 24/10/2007 20:12:12 /signed
I can't even fly Amarr but I can see something is horribly wrong with the Paladin... Fix it. The Golem can probably use some work as well, but the Paladin needs it 10x as bad.
Also some more PG to the Vargur. Kronos is exactly how I pictured the "Marauder" class. (I can't fly Gallente, but the Kronos is by far the best, and I'm fine by that)
I mainly fly Minmatar obviously, but 1400mm II's take 3217 MW of power grid per gun. Multiply that by 4 and that's 12868 MW of PG needed just to fit the guns. With whatever skill gives + 5% to PG per level, the Vargur has a max of 9875 MW.
Now this is fine for AC fits, but I do plan on doing some sniping in this beast! It needs a base of at least another 1800 PG IMO... preferred to be at least 2000, but whatever. I'll be using AC's because of this, unless it's fixed. Then I'll obviously just change depending on the situation.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2007.10.24 20:24:00 -
[132]
cannot resist ;)
Laughter and Faith is everything, therefore as good Amarr:
Developer thou are in CCP, praised be thy geekdom, your compiled code shall be executed, your algorithms shall work, as on Tranquility so on Singularity.
Give us our daily oompf and forgive us our whining, as we forgive the nerfbat.
For yours is the design, and the decision making, and all the games glory until they pull the plug.
Amen.
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr Lai Dai Innovations
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Posted - 2007.10.24 20:32:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Talsha Talamar cannot resist ;) Amen.
Make it ENTER ;)
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Natalie Jax
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:05:00 -
[134]
At the very, very least I want to know why CCP thinks the ship is good. I mean, they take a lot of pride in what they do, espeically when the craft new toys for us to play with. So why did they think the Paladin was as good as the other ships?
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Ynos Fukse
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:20:00 -
[135]
paladin / kronos
5% bonus to capacitor capacity / 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage 75m3 dronebay / 125m3 dronebay Sensors: 12pt radar / Sensors: 13pt magnetometric Propulsion: 125m/s, 110,000,000kg / Propulsion: 135m/s, 102,500,000kg
indeed.
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Asharaak
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:34:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Mutlu Palutli First time ever I have to do this, but...
/Signed
What ^ said.
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Talodrine
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:34:00 -
[137]
Never signed one of these before but the whole Ammar thing is a shambles now
/signed
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Olreik
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:38:00 -
[138]
First time signing one of these also. /signed
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LordChaos
Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 21:40:00 -
[139]
Guys stop complaining about it and stop training amarr and go other races, CCP screwed all amarr pilots and they know that with their stats they showed in a dev blog a month ago.
AMARR will never be as good as the rest or even close.
let it go
i gave up amarr couple of month ago , Gallente BS 5 ftw :)
with all do respect for CCP i dont even know how they made Tux a dev hes a 5 year old kid who doesnt know how to change his own underwear, sorry tux but its true and u know it.
Tux "I dont fly amarr" LMAO u think?
Close range Gallente/Minnie Fleet fights nothing beats the Megat.
even though i still love the geddon
Large Pulse Spec 5 Large Beam Spec 5 all Amarr lvl 5 ships excpet caps
i think caps are the only thing good with Amarr now.
anyone got a extra Avatar ? :)
The Master Of Chaos
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Veng3ance
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:57:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Veng3ance on 24/10/2007 22:01:04 Paladin is pretty terrible.....
Take the webbing bonus, which actually works on a ship like the Kronos, and get it off the paladin!
Amarr do not like going under 10k, pulse optimal is well out of web range! WTF?
I would love to see an ROF bonus in place, but we all know that might be a bit overpowered.
How about falloff instead of webbing bonus? Thats actually not bad at all considering the terrible falloff of lasers.
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Djaru
Caldari The Renaissance The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.10.24 22:55:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Djaru on 24/10/2007 22:57:26 /signed
------------------------------------------------ He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future conquerors of the past |
Karash Amerius
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.24 22:56:00 -
[142]
I have been waiting a long time for some supposed fixes. Khanid II was a good start, but looking at the Pally's stats seems like a slap in the face tbfh.
Ex-Merc Blog |
Tortilla Smasher
SpearMint Rhino GentleMen's Club Carpe Diem.
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Posted - 2007.10.25 00:38:00 -
[143]
they gave us a way out with the power of 2!
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Frothgar
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 00:44:00 -
[144]
Get this sorted ASAP please.
Lazers, Cap use, Ship bonuses, and roles are all very much so in shambles.
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Phelaen
Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
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Posted - 2007.10.25 01:02:00 -
[145]
/Signed
give us some real bonusses or give me my skill points back!!!
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OldWolfe
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Posted - 2007.10.25 01:03:00 -
[146]
Totally agreed
/signed
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Jan Powell
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Posted - 2007.10.25 01:05:00 -
[147]
Give us the old Tach back. Yeah, hear me. Woom woom instead of pew pew..
/signed
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Arkantos47
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Posted - 2007.10.25 02:09:00 -
[148]
/signed
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Halada
Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 02:11:00 -
[149]
I'm usually disgusted by the amount of whining, but I agree with this thread. I don't even fly Amarr, but I feel for you guys.
It's a major slap in the face.
Click on my sig to read it ! |
KLizMaN
GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.25 02:30:00 -
[150]
signed/
tbh I'm surprised CCP doesn't make their devs fly a different race every 3-6 months (with their ingame characters). If they are there to test the game then they should experience it from all races not just the ones they want to and not just on sisi.
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Lord Starwolf
Caldari Kodan Armada
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Posted - 2007.10.25 04:16:00 -
[151]
Man, I've been watching the paladin waiting for the day I would see the stats... I was under the impression they would be somewhat like the nightmare revamped stats... what a letdown. I just couldn't log into Eve since I've read about this... Still the same crappy apoc we had before. I was hoping this would be the savior of the amarr lineup... I hate saying this, but I've waited years for something to be done about Amarr, and I'm growing tired. No, you can't have my stuff.
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Zana Kito
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.25 04:23:00 -
[152]
Kronos vs Paladin. Same ship layout and design.
Both tank similarly, yet one ship is faster, more agile, has a much bigger drone bay, and does 40% more dps. You can guess which one that is.
Absurd. |
Lithalnas
Amarr Headcrabs
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 04:30:00 -
[153]
I figured it out, how to Fix amarr without actually doint anything to the ships.
Cut the build cost of all amarrian ships by half, problem solved. The ships are worth what their abilities cost.
harbinger- 15m (half a cane) Geddon - 25m (only one valued a bit low) apoc - 50m (a bit high, but think of it as a super mining/logistics ship) abaddon - 75m (what its worth about the same as a mega)
paladin - 250m (cut to 1/4 price, but honestly i wouldn't buy one) Devoter - 7.5m (less damage than its t1 counterpart) -------------
fixed for greater eve content |
Lavondyss
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.25 04:32:00 -
[154]
I'm used to Amarrian disappointment. Signed.
"Roadkill squirrel remembered as frantic, indecisive." |
Lisento Slaven
Amarr BAD ATTITUDES
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Posted - 2007.10.25 04:50:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Zana Kito Kronos vs Paladin. Same ship layout and design.
Both tank similarly, yet one ship is faster, more agile, has a much bigger drone bay, and does 40% more dps. You can guess which one that is.
Absurd.
This is what irritated me.
The only ships I find myself flying any more out of the Amarrian line are the Sacrilege and the Purifier. I'd probably fly the Damnation but I'm too lazy to buy one and fit it up.
Note how none of those ships use lasers =P ---
Put in space whales!
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Mr Bodacious
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.10.25 04:54:00 -
[156]
Originally by: The Mormegil aslong as it comes with a bubble and a hearthstone im happy
HAMMER OF JUSTICE!!!
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Mara Kell
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Posted - 2007.10.25 05:10:00 -
[157]
/signed
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Brujo Loco
Amarr Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2007.10.25 05:42:00 -
[158]
/SIGNED and /SIGNED and /SIGNED again
I really don't know what's wrong lately with ship designers, but honestly, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY ... What the hell is going on?????
Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
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Catelco
Segunda Fundacion O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.10.25 07:07:00 -
[159]
/signed
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.25 07:25:00 -
[160]
Didn't somebody from CCP recently say something along the lines of changing the Apoc so it fills a new role, thereby actually making it useful and/or worth thinking about? ---
Join BH-DL |
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kessah
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.25 08:18:00 -
[161]
signed -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
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Rutefly
Amarr Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2007.10.25 08:21:00 -
[162]
Originally by: cal nereus Didn't somebody from CCP recently say something along the lines of changing the Apoc so it fills a new role, thereby actually making it useful and/or worth thinking about?
Theyre fitting the apoc with tractorbeam and salvager fitting bonus i think. Lets see if cargo space gets some loving too.
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Steakkbone
Helios Incorporated Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.25 08:31:00 -
[163]
Signed. What a joke.
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K0K0 PuFFS
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Posted - 2007.10.25 08:39:00 -
[164]
not even amarr, but after killing many of them. /signed
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DoctorBautz
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Posted - 2007.10.25 08:54:00 -
[165]
i do not understand the guys at ccp:
1. Tux found out that Amarr need a boost and the Apoc needs something like a roletwist. he even mentioned that the problem is somehow connected to the lasers. 2. The balancing guys stated, that they first need to know how to handle nos (nosnerf) before the can look into laserchanges or amarr changes in generall.
nos got changed and it will stay that way.
so it would be the perfect time for ccp to balance/modify amarr. but what happens instead?
carrier nerf - dam too much flames - so they change it into "carrier nerf soon" drones nerf - eos turret nerf etc... (nerf gallente to boost amarr?)
and then they release the t2 ships with the loladin! crappy base hull with sugar coating lol.
on the other hand they could just exchange the 2 typicall apoc bonus once the know which role they want to give the apoc.
its a punch in the face that the paladin and the kronos do the same but kronos does it way better!So thats your view of balance?
sorry for typos and wall of text
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Sakhr Otaktay
Amarr The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:05:00 -
[166]
/signed
amarr is costing me millions in boosters per week :) ------ Zombies! Aliens! Vampires! Dinosaurs! |
Tar Kara
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:18:00 -
[167]
/signed
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Gagarish
Amarr VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:43:00 -
[168]
/signed
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Talla Hurzin
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 10:51:00 -
[169]
/signed /signed /signed /signed!
Don't nerf the Arbi either. There is NOTHING wrong with it. Infact it is one of the very very few(3) good tech 1 Amarrian ships, which isn't saying much honestly.
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RossP Zoyka
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:01:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Talla Hurzin /signed /signed /signed /signed!
Don't nerf the Arbi either. There is NOTHING wrong with it. Infact it is one of the very very few(3) good tech 1 Amarrian ships, which isn't saying much honestly.
Its good cause it doesn't use lasers man
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Alexace
Gallente Bright New Dawn Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:58:00 -
[171]
Originally by: RossP Zoyka
Originally by: Talla Hurzin /signed /signed /signed /signed!
Don't nerf the Arbi either. There is NOTHING wrong with it. Infact it is one of the very very few(3) good tech 1 Amarrian ships, which isn't saying much honestly.
Its good cause it doesn't use lasers man
Sad but true.
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Thimn Witt
Amarr the oNe Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:01:00 -
[172]
I can't understand the Paladin. You want us to have a mission running ship, give us what we need.
4 Siege Launchers 100% bonus to damage 10% flight time per level 7.5% Armor Rep bonus 10% reduction in Remote Armor Reps cap need 5% Cap per level.
This is would be a great ship to fly in Missions and a great support ship for pvp. We have seen how effective rockets and HAMs have been on our smaller ships. Let us have the same progression in our BS line.
We need a BS that stands out and apart from our other BS. As it stand right now we have 5 BS with the exact same role. Load up the lasers and fire! And they all do just about the same amount of damage.
CCP you have the ability to help change the Amarr ships into a proud vessel to fly. We Amarr are proud people. We believe god will see us through in all things. Make us proud to fly our ships and not curse them for their deficiencies.
/Signed
Director of Slave Operations There is no job my slaves can't do, it is just a question of how many of them it will take and the right motivation required! |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:08:00 -
[173]
Originally by: AlexCA /signed
Alex has posted, i must jump onto the bandwagon
but yeah, bs5, large energy 5 and worthlessness 5 here
/signed |
Dlardrageth
Eve University
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:08:00 -
[174]
Nerf Amarr!
Then CCP gets rid of those pesky Amarrs which seem to annoy them for some unknown reason.
And we get Amarr as a NPC race, no more new characters to be made.
And I could sell my then uber-rare Amarr character for bazillions of ISK and start training a race where I don't ask myself repeatedly why the hell I had to choose it at character creation...
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:11:00 -
[175]
LAsers are NOT bad when you have a high number of turrets AND damage bonus. Like harbringer and abaddon.
T1 ships have issue that with only 2 bonuses its hard to have both reasonable cap and good damage.
But t2 ships have more bonuses sshoudl not be hard to balance it!!!
Just get that damm web bonus on the paladin and replace for a 5% damage bonus per level. I doubt anyone would complain after that.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Gozmoth
Amarr Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:13:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Zana Kito Kronos vs Paladin. Same ship layout and design.
Both tank similarly, yet one ship is faster, more agile, has a much bigger drone bay, and does 40% more dps. You can guess which one that is.
Absurd.
+1
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Dillius Archania
Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:15:00 -
[177]
/signed
What should I start crosstraining anyways? About 10mil SP in Amarr, and I can't decide which other race to start working on so I feel like I'm accomplishing something.
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Xenos Khanid
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:43:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Kersh Marelor Edited by: Kersh Marelor on 24/10/2007 10:29:36
Originally by: "Benn Helmsman" Make apoc a torp ship, and make the paladin a T2 torp ship, since golem is a T2 cruise missile ship.
The way I see it, apoc is the representation of Amarrian way of waging wars on other and crushing the infidels, at least that's what it's supposed to be when you read the description in-game: '...these golden, metallic monstrosities are still feared and respected as enduring symbols of Amarrian might.'
Well, that description let me remember another one, responsible for the waste of a year. ...these holy warriors, swinging their mighty hammers are always found on the frontlines, leading their allies into battle...dunno if i just remember it right, but that was something like that..
i guess im getting a dejavue...
PS: sry for bad english :)
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 13:02:00 -
[179]
I will give a fe w VERY VERY simple ideas ,,,
first. The cap advantage of the Apoc would be nice. If the Apoc had PG and CPU to fit a Dual LAR tank + megapulse MWD and Cap injector. But it does not have!!! about 40 more CPU and 1 K more PG.
Also the damage issue. INcrease abit its drone bay and Bandwidht. 100m at least.
Ok not huge change right? very easy to implement and we have a ship that is still not great but at least you can fit it and use the only advantage it has ( lots of cap)
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
LVirus
Enterprise Estonia Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.25 13:16:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Thimn Witt I can't understand the Paladin. You want us to have a mission running ship, give us what we need.
4 Siege Launchers 100% bonus to damage 10% flight time per level 7.5% Armor Rep bonus 10% reduction in Remote Armor Reps cap need 5% Cap per level.
This is would be a great ship to fly in Missions and a great support ship for pvp. We have seen how effective rockets and HAMs have been on our smaller ships. Let us have the same progression in our BS line.
We need a BS that stands out and apart from our other BS. As it stand right now we have 5 BS with the exact same role. Load up the lasers and fire! And they all do just about the same amount of damage.
CCP you have the ability to help change the Amarr ships into a proud vessel to fly. We Amarr are proud people. We believe god will see us through in all things. Make us proud to fly our ships and not curse them for their deficiencies.
/Signed
Hell yeah id train amarr BS5 for that. I used to fly only caldari ships but had to train for sacri/damnation cos they kick the **** out of caldari missile boats. I really dont care anymore, i just want 1 decent BS that i can use in pvp.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.25 13:42:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Ok not huge change right? very easy to implement and we have a ship that is still not great but at least you can fit it and use the only advantage it has ( lots of cap)
Nope. It doesn't have lots of cap. The ONE thing Amarr are supposed to have lots of and in fact looks to be WORSE overall than the other T2 ships cap wise. See: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=620528 where this is spelled out in the second post.
I mean Amarr even lose in the cap race? FFS what are they thinking?
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 14:05:00 -
[182]
The apoc still has more base cap than other BS. A bit more would not be bad tough, sicen the hyperion get pretty close and it does nto even use a bonus to do that.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.25 14:09:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon The apoc still has more base cap than other BS. A bit more would not be bad tough, sicen the hyperion get pretty close and it does nto even use a bonus to do that.
According to the link I posted the T2 battleships all have the SAME cap and the Paladin actually has the worst recharge times. Maybe I read it wrong but that is how it looked to me.
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Yuni Milana
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.25 14:17:00 -
[184]
/signed
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 15:22:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Kagura Nikon The apoc still has more base cap than other BS. A bit more would not be bad tough, sicen the hyperion get pretty close and it does nto even use a bonus to do that.
According to the link I posted the T2 battleships all have the SAME cap and the Paladin actually has the worst recharge times. Maybe I read it wrong but that is how it looked to me.
APOC is T1 battleship,, T1... 1 < 2, 1 is not equal to 2. Apoc not equal to paladin
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
SaS 23
Caldari Special-Air-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.25 15:26:00 -
[186]
Yes pls, change the apoc and his T2 version. |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.25 15:28:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon APOC is T1 battleship,, T1... 1 < 2, 1 is not equal to 2. Apoc not equal to paladin
Understood. I am pointing out that the new T2 battleships are actually all the SAME in cap. I mean seriously...wtf?
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Mitsurugii
Amarr Mass Impetus
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Posted - 2007.10.25 15:31:00 -
[188]
Give the apoc bonuses that reflect its one great strength- Mining....then it will at least be good at something other than being laughed at....alternatively let the khannids re-design ALL amarr ships!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 15:35:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Mitsurugii Give the apoc bonuses that reflect its one great strength- Mining....then it will at least be good at something other than being laughed at....alternatively let the khannids re-design ALL amarr ships!
Apoc could be easily brought on par with other BS if it got enough CPU and PG to be EASY to fit with heavy guns and had enough drones to compensate a bit for the low damage, at least match maelstrom Dronebay.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Dah' Khanid
Conisor Excavations Syndicate Chaos Incarnate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:36:00 -
[190]
This is player democracy as it should be, the countless amarr threads all say something more or less relevant, but what CCP can't ignore is the fact that amarr players want some of the same abilities as other races have, and that the abilities many amarr ships have right now not are the specified ones that most players want and would like to play with.
CCP don't let our skill points go to waste and have us train for another race simply because you choose to ignore a problem that a lot of players have tried to make you notice for some time now.
Log in, fly the apoc for 10mins, and then fix it.
/signed
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.25 15:41:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Dah' Khanid This is player democracy as it should be, the countless amarr threads all say something more or less relevant, but what CCP can't ignore is the fact that amarr players want some of the same abilities as other races have, and that the abilities many amarr ships have right now not are the specified ones that most players want and would like to play with.
CCP don't let our skill points go to waste and have us train for another race simply because you choose to ignore a problem that a lot of players have tried to make you notice for some time now.
Log in, fly the apoc for 10mins, and then fix it.
/signed
/signed.
Click Me Pl0x
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goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.25 16:57:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Krist Valentine
Originally by: Dah' Khanid This is player democracy as it should be, the countless amarr threads all say something more or less relevant, but what CCP can't ignore is the fact that amarr players want some of the same abilities as other races have, and that the abilities many amarr ships have right now not are the specified ones that most players want and would like to play with.
CCP don't let our skill points go to waste and have us train for another race simply because you choose to ignore a problem that a lot of players have tried to make you notice for some time now.
Log in, fly the apoc for 10mins, and then fix it.
/signed
/signed.
Agreed,btw wheres the link to that cool boost the pilgrim sig? __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 17:01:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Mitsurugii Give the apoc bonuses that reflect its one great strength- Mining....then it will at least be good at something other than being laughed at....alternatively let the khannids re-design ALL amarr ships!
Funny thing about this...
The Rokh is now the uber battleship miner. The Apoc is even lose there.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.25 17:01:00 -
[194]
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Krist Valentine
Originally by: Dah' Khanid This is player democracy as it should be, the countless amarr threads all say something more or less relevant, but what CCP can't ignore is the fact that amarr players want some of the same abilities as other races have, and that the abilities many amarr ships have right now not are the specified ones that most players want and would like to play with.
CCP don't let our skill points go to waste and have us train for another race simply because you choose to ignore a problem that a lot of players have tried to make you notice for some time now.
Log in, fly the apoc for 10mins, and then fix it.
/signed
/signed.
Agreed,btw wheres the link to that cool boost the pilgrim sig?
Click the link below it mate ;]
RE: Pilgrim / Curse
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 17:09:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Dah' Khanid This is player democracy as it should be, the countless amarr threads all say something more or less relevant, but what CCP can't ignore is the fact that amarr players want some of the same abilities as other races have, and that the abilities many amarr ships have right now not are the specified ones that most players want and would like to play with.
CCP don't let our skill points go to waste and have us train for another race simply because you choose to ignore a problem that a lot of players have tried to make you notice for some time now.
Log in, fly the apoc for 10mins, and then fix it.
/signed
this is NOT A player democracy!! This is CCP game, as any other product in the world. They do what they want, what we can do is ASK!!!!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Thurisaz Prizma
Amarr Stronghold of Agony
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Posted - 2007.10.25 17:18:00 -
[196]
/signed
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Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 17:32:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon this is NOT A player democracy!! This is CCP game, as any other product in the world. They do what they want, what we can do is ASK!!!!
Very true and game design by committee is a bad recipe. That said CCP is providing a product and anyone who does this knows it pays to pay attention to their customers. I know EVE is a labor of love for CCP but in the end they are a business out to make money. They ignore their player base at their peril (and no, I am not saying I am quitting with my thousand accounts and friends so don't even ask for my stuff...but the point still stands).
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TerrorWOLF
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.25 18:03:00 -
[198]
/signed May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
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Hastur DragonTooth
Amarr Call of Cthulhu
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Posted - 2007.10.25 18:47:00 -
[199]
/signed
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punnani
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 18:54:00 -
[200]
/signed
And while at it, get rid of missiles. If i wanted to use missiles I'd fly caldari
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TIlle
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 19:17:00 -
[201]
Whatever they change(if they do),I think amarr should be the only race who can use the lasers "effective". Lasers = Amarr only ! |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.25 19:27:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon The apoc still has more base cap than other BS. A bit more would not be bad tough, sicen the hyperion get pretty close and it does nto even use a bonus to do that.
It's hard to compare the apoc and the hyp on even grounds. The hyp cost's ~50% more. Although i do think the cap on the hyp is a little high. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
lawmi
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 19:43:00 -
[203]
Have to admit, Amarr could use some love, at the moment they are the
"Easy-Way-To-Learn-to-PvP -Against-As-A-Noob- Race"
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.25 19:48:00 -
[204]
Originally by: TIlle Whatever they change(if they do),I think amarr should be the only race who can use the lasers "effective". Lasers = Amarr only !
LOL...even Amarr don't opt for lasers when they can avoid it. Ships with no laser damage bonus actually turn out to be better with Projectiles fitted and is a common way to go.
Right there should be a HUGE flag to CCP that something is amiss. Amarr opting for their racial enemies weapons over their own. How the Amarr ever conquered the Minmatar I will never know. If it happened today the Minmatar would positively cream the Amarr empire.
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.25 20:03:00 -
[205]
Another funny fact is that Kronos can use lasers with the same DPS and CAP use as Paladin. And being capable of deploying 5 heavy drones, makes Kronos better Pulse boat than Paladin ________________________________________
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Hastur DragonTooth
Amarr Call of Cthulhu
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 20:23:00 -
[206]
Just think though how much of a nerf this patch is going to be, beyond mere ship stats. Amarr previously had a built in 100% bonus to shiny as a racial atrribute. The only advantage we really had over the other races! With rev3 and it's model/texture upgrade, all the other races are going to get this by default.
CCP, now that you've nerfed to oblivion the Curse, Pilgrim and Arbi we expect the Abba and Harbi to be next on the chopping block. After you accomplish this goal of yours to make Amarr the flying wheelchair race, could you at least throw us a bone? How about an Amarrian 50% bonus to insurance reimbursement?
Scientific test CCP ran to prove that EVE is heavily weighted in favor of Amarr, thus they need another nerf... |
Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 20:36:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Kerdrak Another funny fact is that Kronos can use lasers with the same DPS and CAP use as Paladin. And being capable of deploying 5 heavy drones, makes Kronos better Pulse boat than Paladin
You serious? If true that's just wrong.
And ROFL at the flying wheelchair comment.
Flying Amarr is like running in the special Olympics. Even if you win you're still ********.
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ReePeR McAllem
The Carebear Stare
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 20:41:00 -
[208]
/signed
|
Asmodean Reborn
Icarus' Wings Daedalus Hegemony
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 21:39:00 -
[209]
/signed
It does really suck. If I remember rightly, amarr were nerfed way back when the devs decided that lasers were too powerful. This was probably true, as people were even fitting lasers to Ravens! *Whack* with the nerf bat and amarr for the lose. I've read a few places that the reason lasers use so much cap is 'cos they're meant to be very powerful - so they had to have a penalty. Hence, some amarr laser boats get a reduction in laser cap usage to make them good at being damage boats. This would be all well and good if lasers WERE very powerful, or even a bit powerful - and it would make lots and lots of sense.
I fly amarr (again, I have no idea why) and I see myself using the sacrilege, purifier, arbitrator (soon to be nerfed) and curse (until the NOS nerf and further drone nerf). Seems like these are the ones that don't use lasers...
Suggestions... - Give us some kind of damage bonus. Base damage mod increase (a decent amount) of all lasers would be nice, or a boost to crystal damage. This will make the ships with 10% reduction in laser turret cap use fit their roles. Hell CCP, if you really wanted to, you could increase the base cap usage some more as long as you increased the damage enough! - Don't wanna do this??? Then reduce laser cap usage a shedload and replace the laser cap usage bonus with a damage mod bonus or ROF bonus or even a falloff bonus. - Don't wanna do this either? Then swap the 10% laser cap bonus for a 5% per level cap recharge bonus. We'll still be crap, but at least we could free up some slots from cap rechargers/relays and put in useful things (heat sinks - tracking comps). -Don't wanna do this either?! Do you want to do anything?!?! No? Okay, can you replace my laser skills with hybrid skills and change my BS, cruiser and frigate skills from amarr to gallente.
I really don't want to have to whine, but it has come to this - and you brought it on yourselves...
Oh, and /signed again
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MysteriousJade
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:05:00 -
[210]
signed
and
Originally by: Asmodean RebornSuggestions... - Give us some kind of damage bonus. Base damage mod increase (a decent amount) of all lasers would be nice, or a boost to crystal damage. This will make the ships with 10% reduction in laser turret cap use fit their roles. Hell CCP, if you really wanted to, you could increase the base cap usage some more as long as you increased the damage enough! - Don't wanna do this??? Then reduce laser cap usage a shedload and replace the laser cap usage bonus with a damage mod bonus or ROF bonus or even a falloff bonus. - Don't wanna do this either? Then swap the 10% laser cap bonus for a 5% per level cap recharge bonus. We'll still be crap, but at least we could free up some slots from cap rechargers/relays and put in useful things (heat sinks - tracking comps). -Don't wanna do this either?! Do you want to do anything?!?! No? Okay, can you replace my laser skills with hybrid skills and change my BS, cruiser and frigate skills from amarr to gallente.
I really don't want to have to whine, but it has come to this - and you brought it on yourselves... [/quote
signed
|
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Gawain Hill
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:43:00 -
[211]
/ signed
and....
Originally by: LordChaos
i think caps are the only thing good with Amarr now.
anyone got a extra Avatar ? :)
thanks you just told them what the good amarr ships are
NEWS *Random Dev* After looking at the ships we've decided that the Amarr cap ships are too powerfull so we are going to make them more in line with the rest of the race :)
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Dah' Khanid
Conisor Excavations Syndicate Chaos Incarnate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 23:18:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Dah' Khanid This is player democracy as it should be, the countless amarr threads all say something more or less relevant, but what CCP can't ignore is the fact that amarr players want some of the same abilities as other races have, and that the abilities many amarr ships have right now not are the specified ones that most players want and would like to play with.
CCP don't let our skill points go to waste and have us train for another race simply because you choose to ignore a problem that a lot of players have tried to make you notice for some time now.
Log in, fly the apoc for 10mins, and then fix it.
/signed
this is NOT A player democracy!! This is CCP game, as any other product in the world. They do what they want, what we can do is ASK!!!!
I know where you're getting at, and I agree with you. Democracy in this context was not meant to be "direct democracy" where CCP should just do the majority's bidding. It's just such a buzz word, and I used it because I really think that CCP has let down a large majority in EVE which has been complaining about amarr compared to other races.
It's to a certain extend CCP's responsibility to make a balanced change, I still trust in them to do that, but it's the community's job to make CCP aware of certain problems, and I truly believe that a game experience is much, much richer when the community and the developers work together to make a great game, but also changes to this, based on constructive criticism and input from the entire community. One man's voice may not count for much on these forums, but a lot of them certainly do, and there have been plenty of voices to be heard in these Amarr discussions
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 00:11:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 26/10/2007 00:17:50
Originally by: Asmodean Reborn
Suggestions...
The reason lasers "use so much power" is because they are friggin' lasers. They fire beams of energy. The OTHER reason is that amarr, whether you or anyone likes it or not (I do), are supposed to be plate tankers (hence the armor resistance bonuses and armor hp bonuses), thus sustaining cap for an active tank isn't really part of the design process. So stop whining about cap recharge, go buy a set of slave implants and start plate tanking like a pro.
And no, lasers do not need a damage bonus, that would be plain stupid. Any real damage increase is going to yet again put armageddons , along with the abbadon, into make-blasters-worthless zone. Even a 5% dmg bonus to lasers means a 3xHS2 MP2 arma is only 80dps short of a 3xMS2 Neut2 blasterthron and I'm going to guess by "decent amount" you mean more like 10%. No.
What amarr needs is a PG boost on some ships. There is something wrong when a mega with 7x 425 2s has 2834.5 pg left and an apoc fitting MB2s has less PG remaining even if it leaves one turret slot empty. This is the reason why amarr suck overall. There are other problems, like stupid ship designs, but when looking at the big picture, it's the fact that they can't fit ****. Their turrets do fine damage (amarr are supposed to be masters of the mid range), but they cant fit the dang things while still maintaining a practical setup.
Give the apoc a 5% PG boost and it's fine
7x MB2s 1x DHB2 (just run crystal 1 range higher)
heavy cap booster 2 tracking comp 2 optical tracking comp 2 SB 2
2x LAR2s internal forcefield 2x EAN2s heat sink 2 co-pro 2
2x ancillaries aux nano pump
I think if you were actually able to test this setup, you'd find that the DHP2 you are able to squeeze in with a 5% PG boost makes all the difference. Equal turret DPS to a mega w/725 T2, and less than 9% lower DPS when adjusted to make equal optimal (basically, going down one crystal). Sure, the mega has 5 drones and the apoc only 3, but the apoc also has WAY more cap and better tracking. Many other amarr ships that are lacking are much like this (others are more complicated), a simple PG boost (even a small one) can make a big difference.
The other big area where I find lasers lacking is in the spread of damage across the two damage types. Now, I am NOT saying I am a proponent of making it so radio is anywhere near equal between em and thermal. Amarr are intended to be the king of midrange. It is not a coincidence that pulses have the greatest range of the short range weapons and beams have the shortest range of the high range weapons. However, that doesn't mean they have to be completely screwed out of the long range fleet battles via stupid damages. Radio L should be adjusted to 16/4 (If I remember correctly, isn't this what it was pre-nerf?) and the rest of the T1 crystals should be calculated based on this. Aurora L should be changed from 20/12 to 18/14. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 05:11:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Dah' Khanid
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Dah' Khanid This is player democracy as it should be, the countless amarr threads all say something more or less relevant, but what CCP can't ignore is the fact that amarr players want some of the same abilities as other races have, and that the abilities many amarr ships have right now not are the specified ones that most players want and would like to play with.
CCP don't let our skill points go to waste and have us train for another race simply because you choose to ignore a problem that a lot of players have tried to make you notice for some time now.
Log in, fly the apoc for 10mins, and then fix it.
/signed
this is NOT A player democracy!! This is CCP game, as any other product in the world. They do what they want, what we can do is ASK!!!!
I know where you're getting at, and I agree with you. Democracy in this context was not meant to be "direct democracy" where CCP should just do the majority's bidding. It's just such a buzz word, and I used it because I really think that CCP has let down a large majority in EVE which has been complaining about amarr compared to other races.
It's to a certain extend CCP's responsibility to make a balanced change, I still trust in them to do that, but it's the community's job to make CCP aware of certain problems, and I truly believe that a game experience is much, much richer when the community and the developers work together to make a great game, but also changes to this, based on constructive criticism and input from the entire community. One man's voice may not count for much on these forums, but a lot of them certainly do, and there have been plenty of voices to be heard in these Amarr discussions
/signed with this aswell.
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Viashivan
Amarr FM Corp Insomnia.
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 06:26:00 -
[215]
/signed
|
Sailon
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 08:57:00 -
[216]
/signed
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Moadyb
Carnivore Ince
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 09:03:00 -
[217]
/signed
Amarr is a joke, gimme my skillpoints back!
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Nedia
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 09:04:00 -
[218]
signed too, please!
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Devoras2
Amarr KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 09:04:00 -
[219]
/ signed
It's great being Amarr, aint it?
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Arshes Nei
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 09:14:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Kruel
Originally by: Kerdrak Another funny fact is that Kronos can use lasers with the same DPS and CAP use as Paladin. And being capable of deploying 5 heavy drones, makes Kronos better Pulse boat than Paladin
You serious? If true that's just wrong.
And ROFL at the flying wheelchair comment.
Flying Amarr is like running in the special Olympics. Even if you win you're still ********.
No, just no. Start using your brains guys, doesnt exactly take rocket science to figure out how wrong this is.
Still, paladin sucks, not just compared to the other marauders, also compared to t1 BS. Apoc doesnt suddenly become a good ship by giving it a tracking bonus, better web and a tanking bonus. It still gets outperformed by ships like hyp or mael. Only thing paladin is good at is shooting at range, and what do you need a web and trackingbonus for if your shooting other BS at over 20km range? Is it supposed to be a suicide cruiser killing platform for 800mil?
|
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Drenan
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 09:14:00 -
[221]
/signed
8 pages and no sign of even a token Dev response...same lack of response in all of the other 'Boost Amarr' threads...what the hell is going on with CCP and Amarr?
There is clearly a CCP management blanket ban on Dev's posting in Amarr threads...but why???
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Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 09:32:00 -
[222]
/signed......and this
Originally by: Letifer Deus Give the apoc a 5% PG boost and it's fine
7x MB2s 1x DHB2 (just run crystal 1 range higher)
heavy cap booster 2 tracking comp 2 optical tracking comp 2 SB 2
2x LAR2s internal forcefield 2x EAN2s heat sink 2 co-pro 2
2x ancillaries aux nano pump
I think if you were actually able to test this setup, you'd find that the DHP2 you are able to squeeze in with a 5% PG boost makes all the difference. Equal turret DPS to a mega w/725 T2, and less than 9% lower DPS when adjusted to make equal optimal (basically, going down one crystal). Sure, the mega has 5 drones and the apoc only 3, but the apoc also has WAY more cap and better tracking. Many other amarr ships that are lacking are much like this (others are more complicated), a simple PG boost (even a small one) can make a big difference. .
"Where are you guys going in your battleships?" "We are going to camp in Amamake; kill 500 carebears and 1 NPC" "Why are you gonna kill an NPC?" "See, nobody cares about the carebears!" [BEES] |
Typhen
Comando Vermelho R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 09:41:00 -
[223]
/ S-I-G-N-E-D
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Nikodaemonicus
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 10:37:00 -
[224]
I cannot agree more. If CCP deletes the apoc, nothing will change in eve. Everything will work as good as before.
The apoc have: lack of decent bonus 8 turret high slot that you cannot fit correctly (according to apoc bonus, you want to fit 8 beams due to cap reduction, but you find you need to nerf 3-4 low slots to be able to fit 8 guns) lack of med slots low slots that are only here to help you fit you high/med slots.
I have 50m sp and I'm amarr specced, and there are lot of ships out there better for amarr than the apoc, and not all are BS. The apoc is the most boring and useless ship for amarr pilots. And the T2 version is not better.
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Quarth
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 11:26:00 -
[225]
Signed. :-(
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Rowl Arak
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 11:28:00 -
[226]
/signed.
Eight pages here, and countless threads of Amarr pilots feeling useless, broken, and cheated.
Even though I admit that I have seen some over-dramatizations of the issues concerning the Amarr, I think the people have spoken and it is time for a change.
Give us something to be proud of.
Preferably more than one, though
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Kazuma Saruwatari
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 11:31:00 -
[227]
Cmon CCP, even just a "amarr work as intended" would silence a lot of amarr fliers, though they'd most likely be forced to respec, or quit -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
Gawain Hill
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 11:35:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Letifer Deus *snip* stuff comment about lasers having better tracking *snip*
Pulse lasers have the worst tracking in the game.
No there is no other way of putting it.
Beams have the best tracking of the long range guns. no comments are worth making on this Pulse lasers have the worst tracking no arguments about i'm wrong i'm not you are wrong if you think pulse lasers have the best tracking OR even have slightly better tracking they don't
STOP SAYING PULSE LASERS HAVE BETTER TRACKING THAN ANYTHING
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 11:38:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 26/10/2007 00:17:50
Originally by: Asmodean Reborn
Suggestions...
The reason lasers "use so much power" is because they are friggin' lasers. They fire beams of energy. The OTHER reason is that amarr, whether you or anyone likes it or not (I do), are supposed to be plate tankers (hence the armor resistance bonuses and armor hp bonuses), thus sustaining cap for an active tank isn't really part of the design process. So stop whining about cap recharge, go buy a set of slave implants and start plate tanking like a pro.
And no, lasers do not need a damage bonus, that would be plain stupid. Any real damage increase is going to yet again put armageddons , along with the abbadon, into make-blasters-worthless zone. Even a 5% dmg bonus to lasers means a 3xHS2 MP2 arma is only 80dps short of a 3xMS2 Neut2 blasterthron and I'm going to guess by "decent amount" you mean more like 10%. No.
What amarr needs is a PG boost on some ships. There is something wrong when a mega with 7x 425 2s has 2834.5 pg left and an apoc fitting MB2s has less PG remaining even if it leaves one turret slot empty. This is the reason why amarr suck overall. There are other problems, like stupid ship designs, but when looking at the big picture, it's the fact that they can't fit ****. Their turrets do fine damage (amarr are supposed to be masters of the mid range), but they cant fit the dang things while still maintaining a practical setup.
Give the apoc a 5% PG boost and it's fine
7x MB2s 1x DHB2 (just run crystal 1 range higher)
heavy cap booster 2 tracking comp 2 optical tracking comp 2 SB 2
2x LAR2s internal forcefield 2x EAN2s heat sink 2 co-pro 2
2x ancillaries aux nano pump
I think if you were actually able to test this setup, you'd find that the DHP2 you are able to squeeze in with a 5% PG boost makes all the difference. Equal turret DPS to a mega w/725 T2, and less than 9% lower DPS when adjusted to make equal optimal (basically, going down one crystal). Sure, the mega has 5 drones and the apoc only 3, but the apoc also has WAY more cap and better tracking. Many other amarr ships that are lacking are much like this (others are more complicated), a simple PG boost (even a small one) can make a big difference.
The other big area where I find lasers lacking is in the spread of damage across the two damage types. Now, I am NOT saying I am a proponent of making it so radio is anywhere near equal between em and thermal. Amarr are intended to be the king of midrange. It is not a coincidence that pulses have the greatest range of the short range weapons and beams have the shortest range of the high range weapons. However, that doesn't mean they have to be completely screwed out of the long range fleet battles via stupid damages. Radio L should be adjusted to 16/4 (If I remember correctly, isn't this what it was pre-nerf?) and the rest of the T1 crystals should be calculated based on this. Aurora L should be changed from 20/12 to 18/14.
80dps off the blasters? So what? Thats no biggy, youre still gonna do thermal/kinetic damage and we are still stuck with EM/TH, it evens out. We need a damage boost.
Why would a weapon system have the highest fitting requirements and the highest cap use and not be a good damage dealer? Seems kinda stupid to me...
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Shirazz
Amarr Original Pirating Material
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:32:00 -
[230]
/signed
I have been training two years for what would appear to be a yellow piece of crap and as for the lack of dev input on the matter, that just sayd it all. Please, you can see the small percentage of the community that play amarr are very, very unhappy, do somthing about it beofre you lose them.
|
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:36:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Shirazz /signed
I have been training two years for what would appear to be a yellow piece of crap and as for the lack of dev input on the matter, that just sayd it all. Please, you can see the small percentage of the community that play amarr are very, very unhappy, do somthing about it beofre you lose them.
They already lost me few months ago before the Khanid changes. Thats what brought me back. I tried the khanid ships and they were nice and performing well. But now Im getting tired of my gunships still, after years, not performing as they should. We'll see how long ill keep my account going...
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Hastur DragonTooth
Amarr Call of Cthulhu
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:36:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Cmon CCP, even just a "amarr work as intended" would silence a lot of amarr fliers, though they'd most likely be forced to respec, or quit
They already commented on this. The dev's believed that the Amarr needed some "oomph" as they put it. They then proceeded to "improve" the curse and pilgrim in the last patch. Now the next patch will add some "oomph" to the arbitrator by removing it's long range setup, along with the crapoc in it's T2 variant tractor beam bonus.
Just wait for the next patch when they "improve" the abba and the harbi. After all, they're the only two inferior ships we have left! CCP should give the guy in charge of balancing amarr a raise. He's doing such a swell job!
Scientific test CCP ran to prove that EVE is heavily weighted in favor of Amarr, thus needing another nerf... |
Alyxa Mahan
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:39:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Kerdrak Another funny fact is that Kronos can use lasers with the same DPS and CAP use as Paladin. And being capable of deploying 5 heavy drones, makes Kronos better Pulse boat than Paladin
You mean the Redeemer, not the Kronos.
Originally by: Letifer Deus And no, lasers do not need a damage bonus, that would be plain stupid. Any real damage increase is going to yet again put armageddons , along with the abbadon, into make-blasters-worthless zone. Even a 5% dmg bonus to lasers means a 3xHS2 MP2 arma is only 80dps short of a 3xMS2 Neut2 blasterthron and I'm going to guess by "decent amount" you mean more like 10%. No.
Yes. Ofcourse, any boost to lasers would require looking at the ships that are currently good, all, uhm, three of them (Abso, Arma, Abba, hmm, i see a theme here), they may need a little work then. But thats still a lot less work than looking at all other Amarrian ships, wouldn't you say?
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:39:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Hastur DragonTooth CCP should give the guy in charge of balancing amarr a raise. He's doing such a swell job!
W00t? He exists???
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hgewwe
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:45:00 -
[235]
We are doomed
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:54:00 -
[236]
/ signed.
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LoneFox3
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:56:00 -
[237]
people have been asking for years for ccp to upgrade the amarr, I have been playing them over a year and i still cant stand up to any non-amarr players. My fully t2 apoc barely holds gound agaisnt a drake.. i mean.. come on..
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:01:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Kerdrak Another funny fact is that Kronos can use lasers with the same DPS and CAP use as Paladin. And being capable of deploying 5 heavy drones, makes Kronos better Pulse boat than Paladin
You mean the Redeemer, not the Kronos.
Since cap usage bonus are inside the 100% to damage bonus, Kronos have the same 50% cap reduction use with turrets as Paladin. Also, Paladin have less dronebay/bandwith than Kronos, making it worse at short range (due to less dps from drones).
This means that Kronos is able to use lasers, at least, as good as Paladin AND making more damage with drones. This means Kronos is far better than Paladin in ALL aspects and UNBALANCED. ________________________________________
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Phil Exon
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:13:00 -
[239]
/signed
Originally by: Hastur DragonTooth
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Cmon CCP, even just a "amarr work as intended" would silence a lot of amarr fliers, though they'd most likely be forced to respec, or quit
They already commented on this. The dev's believed that the Amarr needed some "oomph" as they put it. They then proceeded to "improve" the curse and pilgrim in the last patch. Now the next patch will add some "oomph" to the arbitrator by removing it's long range setup, along with the crapoc in it's T2 variant tractor beam bonus.
Just wait for the next patch when they "improve" the abba and the harbi. After all, they're the only two inferior ships we have left! CCP should give the guy in charge of balancing amarr a raise. He's doing such a swell job!
The best use of sarcasm on this thread
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Seru Maldus
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:20:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Shirazz /signed
I have been training two years for what would appear to be a yellow piece of crap. And as for the lack of dev input on the matter, that just said it all. Please, you can see the small percentage of the community that play Amarr are very, very unhappy. Do something about it beofre you lose them.
QFT...
|
|
Arshes Nei
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:53:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Kerdrak
Since cap usage bonus are inside the 100% to damage bonus, Kronos have the same 50% cap reduction use with turrets as Paladin. Also, Paladin have less dronebay/bandwith than Kronos, making it worse at short range (due to less dps from drones).
This means that Kronos is able to use lasers, at least, as good as PaladinAND making more damage with drones. This means Kronos is far better than Paladin in ALL aspects and UNBALANCED.
Just because this crap gets repeated doesnt make it true. I give you a hint, the 100% damage boni are tied to racial guns, like every single damn damage bonus in the whole game.
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goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:57:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Arshes Nei
Originally by: Kerdrak
Since cap usage bonus are inside the 100% to damage bonus, Kronos have the same 50% cap reduction use with turrets as Paladin. Also, Paladin have less dronebay/bandwith than Kronos, making it worse at short range (due to less dps from drones).
This means that Kronos is able to use lasers, at least, as good as PaladinAND making more damage with drones. This means Kronos is far better than Paladin in ALL aspects and UNBALANCED.
Just because this crap gets repeated doesnt make it true. I give you a hint, the 100% damage boni are tied to racial guns, like every single damn damage bonus in the whole game.
Your missing the point,if that were not true and the kronos had the same amount of pulse lasers(damage wise)it would have both the same tank and MORE dps with a different racial guns.
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dAn melax
Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:57:00 -
[243]
disco-apoc ftw. xD best ship to fly with 5x wcs and smartbomb everything on your way xD yarr!
now for real yeah this battleship is silly Play Hard. Go Pro. |
Cleron
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 14:08:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Cleron on 26/10/2007 14:10:10 10% Cap bonus (7.5% if it has better stat's)/ 10% weapon Cap usage 10% Armor Hp 7.5% Armor Rep 5% Damage
Or
10% Cap bonus (7.5% if it has better stat's)/ 10% weapon Cap usage 10% Armor Hp 7.5% Armor Rep 10% Tracking
125Mbit 250m3
Meh a bit better. Of course it has no chance in hell of seeing the light of day so...
/Signed
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Ekaterina Volkova
Caldari Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 14:22:00 -
[245]
We know amarr need a boost they know it too. We know they read the forums. If they wanted to answerd they would have said something. They must have a policy to dont answerd amarr rants. So i guess...
1 ) amarr working as intended. 2 ) We dont know / dont whant how to fix it. 3 ) They dont care.
atropos http://www.eve-search.com/thread/620905/page/1#2
"With maximum skills the Hyena gets a web range of 20km, firmly within Heavy neut/nos range. Furthermore, the Sentinel is the most neut/nos resistant of the 4 ships, having, as you say, a neut/nos amount and range bonus."
I would like to see how he fits the sentinel to be of any use. And dont die in a sec if 5 light drones atack him. At least they say something there and fast.
Tuxford http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=427 "What about the Amarr?!?! Well I guess I did promise. For me there are number of problems that plague Amarr. The biggest one in my opinion is the popularity of so called omni tank. That is tanks that just boost the tank equally over all the resistances. On smaller ships that can be explained by the ease at which people are fitting oversized plates. On bigger ships it has to do with viability of plates but also people are often choosing EANM over active hardeners.
Comparing EANM with active hardener isn't really straight forward process. You might be tempted just compare the average resistance, or that is the average damage that leaks through. That's fine if it's what you want to do but given that only two types of turrets do EM damage and projectile do little of it, then I'd take a high kinetic and thermal resistance instead of high EM resistance any day. The reason I don't always fit an active hardener is simply because they use up too much cpu. Tech 2 activatable armor hardeners uses 14tf more than energized one and that amounts to a lot of cpu need. In a pinch we might consider fiddling with base resistances, that is increase EM resistance a bit on shield and lower it on armor but that's something we really shouldn't do unless we have to.
Amarr needs oomph. TomB and I have been talking about giving them oomph. What is oomph? I don't know but I sure like typing it. The Amarr were supposed to be the capacitor race, today that can be best characterized by the fact that they need most of it. It seems blatantly obvious that they should get bonus to capacitor warfare. Of course that is totally dependant on how we're "overhauling" nosferatus.
People say that beams are too hard to fit and in general, I agree. Then why haven't we done anything? Well it can be really time consuming and frankly there is always something "bigger" we need to think about. We haven't forgotten about this however.
Khanid MK2. I don't think I need to explain what it is, in general we liked the idea and I don't think it's at all unlikely that we will actually go through with it.
General ship loving. There are some ships that need help and we're gonna give it to them. Which ships you might ask? Well, Armageddon might need some fitting help, the cruisers aren't really that great and Apocalypse might get a bit of a role twist."
The Apocalypse might get a role twistí! great ... now we get a loladin. If they knew in february that the apocalypse needed a twist... why they made the paladin? Is the same ship.. only more expensive. If they wanted to change the Apoc this was the best time. Now they need to change 2 ships.
Oveur http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=501
"Bandwidth referenced here is not in reference to your internet connection. It's to un-nerf specialized drone ships and allow more differentation between ships."
un-nerf? I think the arbitrator will do less dps and wont be able to field 3 sentry Drones.
But at least we know they are aware of the problems we have.
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Arshes Nei
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 14:40:00 -
[246]
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Arshes Nei
Originally by: Kerdrak
Since cap usage bonus are inside the 100% to damage bonus, Kronos have the same 50% cap reduction use with turrets as Paladin. Also, Paladin have less dronebay/bandwith than Kronos, making it worse at short range (due to less dps from drones).
This means that Kronos is able to use lasers, at least, as good as PaladinAND making more damage with drones. This means Kronos is far better than Paladin in ALL aspects and UNBALANCED.
Just because this crap gets repeated doesnt make it true. I give you a hint, the 100% damage boni are tied to racial guns, like every single damn damage bonus in the whole game.
Your missing the point,if that were not true and the kronos had the same amount of pulse lasers(damage wise)it would have both the same tank and MORE dps with a different racial guns.
Look there is no point.
Originally by: kerdrak This means that Kronos is able to use lasers, at least, as good as Paladin AND making more damage with drones. This means Kronos is far better than Paladin in ALL aspects and UNBALANCED.
This is simply wrong, as in not the case, not happening, in your dreams - kind of wrong. And a "but if it where true ..." doesnt change a damn because it isnt. The paladin has a damage bonus to lasers and the same amount of turret hardpoints the kronos has, which doesnt have a damage bonus to lasers.
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 14:57:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Ekaterina Volkova The Apocalypse might get a role twistí! great ... now we get a loladin. If they knew in february that the apocalypse needed a twist... why they made the paladin? Is the same ship.. only more expensive. If they wanted to change the Apoc this was the best time. Now they need to change 2 ships.
Yeah, that's what gets me too. It's like they either completely forgot about the Apoc role change, or decided against it.
Laserboats are becoming a big joke these days. I'm hoping that CCP will go "psyche!" and then show us the REAL Paladin. I mean come on, they can't be THAT stupid.
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 14:59:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Arshes Nei The paladin has a damage bonus to lasers and the same amount of turret hardpoints the kronos has, which doesnt have a damage bonus to lasers.
No it doesn't.
Look at the bonuses again. It has a tracking bonus, not damage bonus.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr BAD ATTITUDES
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:16:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 26/10/2007 15:19:07
Originally by: Kruel
Originally by: Arshes Nei The paladin has a damage bonus to lasers and the same amount of turret hardpoints the kronos has, which doesnt have a damage bonus to lasers.
No it doesn't.
Look at the bonuses again. It has a tracking bonus, not damage bonus.
You seriously need to look again...Arshes is right.
And if you still don't believe anyone, I'll point you straight to the ROLE BONUSES. Please look =P
EDIT: Since I don't trust you to look it up on your own here, from the blog...
Bonuses:
* 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level * 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level * Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage * Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams ---
Put in space whales!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:22:00 -
[250]
So simple soo simple. 40 CPU + and about 2K more PG..... pleaaaaasee pleaaase.
I think all the insatisfied players shoudl eachone get 1 APOC and get all together ad drop them floating in front of Jita 4-4
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:36:00 -
[251]
Originally by: dAn melax disco-apoc ftw. xD best ship to fly with 5x wcs and smartbomb everything on your way xD yarr!
now for real yeah this battleship is silly
LOL disco, yeah its a really useful "role" haha.
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:39:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 26/10/2007 15:19:07
Originally by: Kruel
Originally by: Arshes Nei The paladin has a damage bonus to lasers and the same amount of turret hardpoints the kronos has, which doesnt have a damage bonus to lasers.
No it doesn't.
Look at the bonuses again. It has a tracking bonus, not damage bonus.
You seriously need to look again...Arshes is right.
And if you still don't believe anyone, I'll point you straight to the ROLE BONUSES. Please look =P
EDIT: Since I don't trust you to look it up on your own here, from the blog...
Bonuses:
* 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level * 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level * Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage * Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
Ah that's right... turning the 4 lasers into 8. Still, Abaddon will do more damage so I won't be flying the Paladin.
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Beef Hardslab
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:43:00 -
[253]
<3 the discopoc; <3 the cap bonus; yeah, I could think of a better set of bonuses for the apoc, but it is nice having 8k+ cap right off the bat. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Ekaterina Volkova
Caldari Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:53:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon So simple soo simple. 40 CPU + and about 2K more PG..... pleaaaaasee pleaaase.
Paladin Fitting: 500tf, 13,500mw Drones: 75Mbit/s bandwidth, 75m3 dronebay Sensors: 12pt radar, 10 target locks Propulsion: 125m/s, 110,000,000kg
5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level
Kronos Fitting: 550tf, 12,000mw Drones: 125Mbit/s bandwidth, 125m3 dronebay Sensors: 13pt magnetometric, 10 target locks Propulsion: 135m/s, 102,500,000kg
We dont know the capacitor of each ship so we cant compare those.
Paladin +1500mw +7.5% tracking bonus Kronos +50tf +50Mbit/s +75m3 dronebay +1 pt sensor +10m/s - 7500000kg
So its you to decide if 1500mw its worth 2 more heavy drones more cpu more dronebay better sensor better speed and less mass.
And i think with the web bonus they have the tracking bonus is no use ... If you web something you will hit it with or without the bonus.
And tracking bonus is not damage bonus. And even if you can make in some circunstances more damage is less than the damage of two heavy drones.
simple?
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:05:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Ekaterina Volkova
Originally by: Kagura Nikon So simple soo simple. 40 CPU + and about 2K more PG..... pleaaaaasee pleaaase.
Paladin Fitting: 500tf, 13,500mw Drones: 75Mbit/s bandwidth, 75m3 dronebay Sensors: 12pt radar, 10 target locks Propulsion: 125m/s, 110,000,000kg
5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level
Kronos Fitting: 550tf, 12,000mw Drones: 125Mbit/s bandwidth, 125m3 dronebay Sensors: 13pt magnetometric, 10 target locks Propulsion: 135m/s, 102,500,000kg
We dont know the capacitor of each ship so we cant compare those.
Paladin +1500mw +7.5% tracking bonus Kronos +50tf +50Mbit/s +75m3 dronebay +1 pt sensor +10m/s - 7500000kg
So its you to decide if 1500mw its worth 2 more heavy drones more cpu more dronebay better sensor better speed and less mass.
And i think with the web bonus they have the tracking bonus is no use ... If you web something you will hit it with or without the bonus.
And tracking bonus is not damage bonus. And even if you can make in some circunstances more damage is less than the damage of two heavy drones.
simple?
i am talkjing about APOC APOC!!!! See the main title of thread is about the APOC! Not paladin
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Ekaterina Volkova
Caldari Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:10:00 -
[256]
Edited by: Ekaterina Volkova on 26/10/2007 16:14:09
sorry ;-) bad quote
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Veng3ance
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:13:00 -
[257]
Just get rid of that webbing bonus and give us something else on the paladin!
NOT A SINGLE AMARR BATTLESHIP WEAPON HAS AN OPTIMAL UNDER 10KM
WTF is a webbing bonus doing on an AMARR ship!!!!?!?!?!?!?!
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr BAD ATTITUDES
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:20:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Veng3ance Just get rid of that webbing bonus and give us something else on the paladin!
NOT A SINGLE AMARR BATTLESHIP WEAPON HAS AN OPTIMAL UNDER 10KM
WTF is a webbing bonus doing on an AMARR ship!!!!?!?!?!?!?!
Give us another tanking bonus and I think that would be cool. ---
Put in space whales!
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:27:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Originally by: Veng3ance Just get rid of that webbing bonus and give us something else on the paladin!
NOT A SINGLE AMARR BATTLESHIP WEAPON HAS AN OPTIMAL UNDER 10KM
WTF is a webbing bonus doing on an AMARR ship!!!!?!?!?!?!?!
Give us another tanking bonus and I think that would be cool.
I don't even use webs on my mission Abaddon. With 2x TCs I can hit cruisers and above just fine. Drones take care of the frigs I don't pop at range. This web bonus is a waste on the Paladin.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:19:00 -
[260]
I hate to do this but. BUMP! This topic MUSt stay in top of main page until very last second before rev 3 deployment!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Corvin Demeter
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:23:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Corvin Demeter on 26/10/2007 17:24:00
/signed
I am currently cross-training Amarr so I can use the Khanid ships...while doing so I have bought and used a number of Amarr frigates, cruisers and a harbinger bc...the balancing problems with most Amarr ships are real and deserve urgent Dev attention.
Also, as has been pointed out in this thread (and many others), the lack of a single Dev response to the concerns expressed by the community in general is err...strange...to say the least.
Especially when you note the number of Devs that were able to find the time to contribute to a 'fluff' thread dealing with the geographical point of origin of CCP devs?
Silence will not make this go away CCP.
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Astrit
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:33:00 -
[262]
Perhaps CCP think, that if they unnerf Amarr, then it will be a GAME WON for some of the players (amarr players waiting years for this to happen), and they will no longer buy iskies for real money?
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Ekaterina Volkova
Caldari Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:41:00 -
[263]
At least they said something here not much put something is something ;-)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=621254&page=2#57
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Corvin Demeter
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:52:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Ekaterina Volkova At least they said something here not much put something is something ;-)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=621254&page=2#57
OMG...Prism broke the ban...but managed to say nothing at all.
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Gagarish
Amarr VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:41:00 -
[265]
All Heil Prism!!!!
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Hijara
Amarr Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:57:00 -
[266]
/signed ive never signed an amarr petition, even through i fly them exclusively, and love the ships. But getting raped by the nerf bat every single patch/expansion/addition is getting really old. Ive been playing for about a year and a half as a loyal customer and this is making me consider a new game.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.26 19:30:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Veng3ance Just get rid of that webbing bonus and give us something else on the paladin!
NOT A SINGLE AMARR BATTLESHIP WEAPON HAS AN OPTIMAL UNDER 10KM
WTF is a webbing bonus doing on an AMARR ship!!!!?!?!?!?!?!
Unfortunately, these are technically mission ships. You're guns may have a greater than 10km optimal, but that doesn't mean they can kill an orbiting deadspace frig. With a 99% web, they can. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
annoing
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.26 19:42:00 -
[268]
Originally by: shinsushi AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005
Word!
CCP devs are the lowest of the low. Amarr needs love like a hippy needs weed. The devs just need a brain.
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Dopefish
Amarr Quad and Fish
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Posted - 2007.10.26 19:47:00 -
[269]
Paladin gets a hidden cap use bonus for lasers with the reduction in turrets.
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Amelia O
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Posted - 2007.10.26 20:03:00 -
[270]
amarr = wow shamans
/signed
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Sc0rphion
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Posted - 2007.10.26 20:13:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Sc0rphion on 26/10/2007 20:14:48 return to the thread
/signed
------------------- I think CCP are Natzis and amarr Judish CCP are white texas boys and Amarr are Black guys CCP are European and Amarr southamericans CCp's wife was found having sex with an Amarrian To add CCP is a gallente guy why gallente have pretty womans? why gallente have More sofisticated looking ships Why the textures of Gallente are near to Jovian's one? Why in the name of god, Mimmatar are ugly? Why bugs bunny dosnt fugged The Rabit girl of Space jam? Why Chavez still rule Venezuela?
nothing more....
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Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 21:37:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Amelia O amarr = wow shamans
/signed
Dude, whats 'wow shaman'? ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death |
Bentula
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Posted - 2007.10.26 21:48:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Dopefish Paladin gets a hidden cap use bonus for lasers with the reduction in turrets.
Actually its so hidden it doesnt even exist on the same plane of existence as other boni. Cause ccp while cutting the turrets in half also removed the -50% cap need bonus ...
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Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.10.26 22:24:00 -
[274]
Suggested fix for Paladin:
-web bonus (!?????) +damage bonus (5%/level) -armor rep amount bonus +resist bonus
Yep, this is what you get when you add an apoc and an abaddon together and then throw in a tracking bonus. It has -50% cap use for lasers (good!) 25% better resists (better than rep amount becuase it increases ability to plate tank and get remote repped, also it's an AMARR bonus, instead of the GALLENTE bonus) 25% better laser damage (better than RoF bonus cause it doesn't increase cap use) 25% more cap (cap is good! run those reps! [would rather have cap recharge bonus but it should inherit something other than the hull from the Apoc]) 37.5% better tracking (about 2x t2 tracking comps with stacking penalty, for free, will make pulse lasers track pretty damn well)
75 mb/s bandwith, 150 m3 drone bay
now THIS is a ship I would fly. Good, but not overpowered. I hope.
To summarize (if you want to quote this post)
NEW PALADIN 7/4/7, fitting the same 4 turrets
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: +5% Capacitor Capacity / level +5% bonus to Large Energy Turrets / level Marauders Skill Bonus +5% to all Armor Resists / level +7.5% to Large Energy Turret tracking / level
Role Bonus: 100% Bonus to Large Energy Turret Damage [Some **** about tractor beams that really nobody cares about] __________________________________
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 22:37:00 -
[275]
Another classical solution for the apoc is exchange the cap bonus per a 10% armor HP per level.
Then it wouyld be a whole niche. A sturdy not very high damage long life space brick
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2007.10.26 22:49:00 -
[276]
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Low Blow
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Whew, good thing game design isn't a democracy.
yes
Hmmm... I wonder. Whats more likely, the vast majority are crazy, or the tiny minority are crazy?
Well it dosn't matter wether you're the minority or majority if you make 10x your share of threads.
_
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Sarah Moonshine
MEPS Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 23:03:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Sarah Moonshine on 26/10/2007 23:05:17 I've read so many threads regarding amarr ships it's no longer funny; tach nerfs, nos nerf, dron bay nerf, crappy bonuses, lack of powergrid AND cap. It's no surprive that, when one of the last devblogs came out, amarr ranked last in terms of used ships in ALL CATEGORIES.
Of course, amarr does have some nice ships (namely the abaddon and the armageddon, plus the whole lot of Khanid Mk.2 ships) but even those are blatantly inferior to their Gallente, Minmatar and - even - Caldari counterparts. The Paladin, by the way, only adds to the insult.
Amarr could use some love, indeed, and I gladly present some suggestions:
1 - Give amarr ships powergrid enough to use their weapons;
2 - Give lasers a small boost to their damage; 3% ~ 7% would be enough;
3 - Give pulse better tracking speeds;
4 - Tweak crystals a bit, swaping a bit more of EM for Thermal;
Special "10% bonus to capacitor use" category
5 - Swap all those "10% bonus to capacitor use" for 5% more cap; it won't solve laser problems, but make the whole bunch much more useful (then, you could effectively use other weapon systems and still have some edge on your enemies) and versatile;
6 - Swap all those "10% bonus to capacitor use" for 5% on all resists, which would make amarr nber tankers (even if at expense of their current lame damage-dealing capabilities);
7 - Swap all those "10% bonus to capacitor use" for 5% or even 10% bonus to capacitor use ON ARMOR REPAIRERS (once again, making them the resilient race their supposed to be);
8 - Swap all those "10% bonus to capacitor use" for 5% powergrid bonus, making them actually able to use their big guns, even if not forever;
9 - Swap all those "10% bonus to capacitor use" for 5% bonus to cap recharge rate (durability);
10 - Swap all those "10% bonus to capacitor use" for 5% or even 10% bonus to armor hitpoints (again, durability).
I could come up with a load more of suggestions, but I think these make for a nice starting point.
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Wayward Hooligan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.26 23:04:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 26/10/2007 23:07:30 I fly Amarr because lasers are cool but I think they could use some work:
My probably worthless suggestions to help out Amarr:
1 - The NOS nerf: Undo the nos nerf and just change the transfer amount to 1/3 the original value. Basically NOS is no longer an IWIN button but it still allows NOS boats Curse/Pilgrim/Bhaalgorn to use NOS to power their tanks/MWD/Neuts and what not.
2 - T1 Ship Lineup: Amarr should have 3 lines of t1 ships imho:
--1.1-- ROF/Optimal boats: +5% ROF per level, +5% optimal per level (Can't be 10% range as uber long range is Caldari) Executioner/Omen/Prophecy/Geddon
--2-- Damage/Armor Resist boats: +5% Damage per level, +5% armor resists per level Punisher/Maller/Harb/Abaddon
--3-- Wierdness boats: Any boat that isn't one of the above goes here Inquisitor/Arbitrator/Apoc
Compared to Gallente Rail/Blaster boats Amarr Laser boats should have 1 less turret hardpoint but laser dps should make up for it.
3 - Laser fix:
Dual Pulse are comparable to Electron Blasters Medium/Heavy/Mega Pulse are comparable to Neutron Blastes
Dual Beam are comparable to the smaller of the size equivalent Railguns Medium/Heavy/Mega Beams are comparable to the larger of the size equivalent Railguns
Tachyons are in a class of their own
Lasers should have: - 20% more cap use per shot than comparable Hyrbid - Higher fittings than any size class comparable weapon(Hyrbid or Projectile)
- Pulse: -- Less DPS inside optimal of comparable Blaster but better DPS outside optimal of comparable Blaster. -- That is, if a blaster does 120 dps out to 5km then the pulse laser should do 110 dps out to whatever. Once a blaster is in first falloff it should do less dps than the equivalent puslse laser.
- Beam: -- More DPS inside optimal than comparable Railgun but shorter optimal than comparable Railgun. -- At say 100km railgun is doing 100 dps, beam should be doing 140 dps.
I don't have exact numbers because I haven't created graphs to figure exactly where things need to be but the idea is lasers should do noticeably more dps than Hyrbids at all ranges other than point blank -vs- blasters.
The cost for this should be higher cap use and higher fitting requirements.
Other stat changes: Remove 10% base EM armor resist for all Gall/Min/Amarr/Caldari ships
Amarr ship design: Larger base capacitor than equivalent ships Faster base cap regen than equivalent ships Lower base shield amount than equivalent ships Slower base shield regen than equivalent ships Higher base armor than equivalent ships Average base hull of equivalent ships
Changes along these lines would allow Amarr laser boats to fill their role as high dps passive armor tankers.
Blah, probably a waste of time to type all that but thats how I see Amarr laser boats.
Low diversity. Low speed. Passive armor tanks. High DPS. Capacitor superiority.
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Tisanta
Amarr Militaris Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.26 23:56:00 -
[279]
/Signed
the banana boat sucks Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) |
Nyxus
Amarr GALAXIAN
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Posted - 2007.10.27 00:55:00 -
[280]
Paladin needs:
+5% damage per level +10% Armor amount per level +5% resist per level +10% cap recharge per level
Make it a monster tank boat with huge amounts of armor. You know, distinctly Amarrian.
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
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LF9000
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Posted - 2007.10.27 02:08:00 -
[281]
/nuked. I agree yellow megathrons sound cool lol. I love my companion cube. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. |
Cleron
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Posted - 2007.10.27 02:35:00 -
[282]
The more i think about the capacitor bonus the less i like it. It would have to be pretty dam high to equal out our cap usage & frankly speaking if it can't do that it's as good as a wasted bonus. 50% Weapon cap reduction bonus works on all our weapons & brings them into line with there Glenty counterparts or at least close enough so that they become viable options.
I just can't see CCP giving us a capacitor bonus that would yield a 16-18 cap a second advantage witch is roughly what we would need to counter laser consumption costs of beam's & tachs. That's like giving the Abbadon double its capacitor or halving its recharge time. So that can go out the window & to be honest i'm really tired of having to lvl up my ship bonus to lvl 5 to see an even playing field so how about this time we get the FULL 50% weapon cap reduction bonus at the very start.
The Webber bonus was actually a nice idea, but they went in the wrong direction. Effectiveness means very little to a player were they are for all intense purposes stuck in a flying brick that can't lure enemy's into the kill zone. On the other hand a 90% Webber with a 20km range would be another matter. We could effectively slow down enemy ships within OUR optimal range.
Tracking bonus was poor. Our "Medium" range weapons would require most of this bonus to simply get up to "scratch" with the other races short range weapons. To effectively compete with ships like the Megathorn we would require something in the order of a 10% bonus. On the other hand our long range weapons have the best tracking of any race so CCP will never allow that.
So over all it's not a total stuff up. They just got some things wrong, again. My revised changes would be something similar to the below. Armor resistance is a nice bonus, but also one that features diminishing returns especially on T-2 boats such as these. I would much rather increase the armor bonus to 20% witch may actually be required for this ship to become competitive with out a damage bonus. I simply have not done the figures on that.
50% Weapon Cap Reduction (Static full bonus up front) 20% Webber range (Per level) 10% Armor (Per level) 7.5% Armor Rep (Per Level)
125Mbit 250m3 Drone bay
or
50% Weapon Cap Reduction (Static full bonus up front) 20% Webber range (Per level) 10% Armor (Per level) 5% Weapon Damage (Per Level)
The Mr Tank approach
50% Weapon Cap Reduction (Static full bonus up front) 5% Armor resistance 10% Armor (Per level) 7.5% Armor Rep (Per Level)
125Mbit 250m3 Drone bay
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 07:23:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/10/2007 07:24:33
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer 80dps off the blasters? So what? Thats no biggy, youre still gonna do thermal/kinetic damage and we are still stuck with EM/TH, it evens out. We need a damage boost.
Why would a weapon system have the highest fitting requirements and the highest cap use and not be a good damage dealer? Seems kinda stupid to me...
You're right, the apoc, which isn't supposed to be a damage ship, having higher DPS than a megathron doesn't matter at all because lasers are em/therm damage.
Man I hate you.
Originally by: Nyxus Paladin needs:
+5% damage per level +10% Armor amount per level +5% resist per level +10% cap recharge per level
Make it a monster tank boat with huge amounts of armor. You know, distinctly Amarrian.
Nyxus
The fact that you think those bonuses are even remotely close to in-line with the other marauders is beyond laughable. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Alyxa Mahan
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Posted - 2007.10.27 07:36:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Dopefish Paladin gets a hidden cap use bonus for lasers with the reduction in turrets.
No it doesn't Sheesh, you guys grow on trees or what, learn how Amarr ships work!
Originally by: Cleron 50% Weapon Cap Reduction (Static full bonus up front) 20% Webber range (Per level) 10% Armor (Per level) 7.5% Armor Rep (Per Level)
No armor rep bonus, thats Gallente! The racial defense boni are armor resists for Amarr, rep amount for Gallente, shield res or boost for Caldari, and the Minmatar are all over the place, including speed mods. So give the Paladin the usual 5% resists, or screw it.
Originally by: Letifer Deus The fact that you think those bonuses are even remotely close to in-line with the other marauders is beyond laughable.
You think its still not enuff? Remember, its based on the Apocalypse...
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 07:37:00 -
[285]
The cornerstones of a good Paladin would be +5% damage and +7.5% tracking. Add two other useful bonuses to the mix, and you get a ship that will be really good. The totally overtanked stuff some people are suggesting here would be just as worthless as the current design. Interactive missioning (and I assume CCP prefers people actually playing their game rather than AFK-grinding) is about as much gank as possible and as little tank as you can get away with, so an ubertank really is not needed for professional PvE. And for PvP, who would use a 500+ mil ship as damage soaker? I know I would not at least... Might as well get a capital and soak a lot more in that case.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 07:50:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar The cornerstones of a good Paladin would be +5% damage and +7.5% tracking. Add two other useful bonuses to the mix, and you get a ship that will be really good. The totally overtanked stuff some people are suggesting here would be just as worthless as the current design. Interactive missioning (and I assume CCP prefers people actually playing their game rather than AFK-grinding) is about as much gank as possible and as little tank as you can get away with, so an ubertank really is not needed for professional PvE. And for PvP, who would use a 500+ mil ship as damage soaker? I know I would not at least... Might as well get a capital and soak a lot more in that case.
NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Right, right, right, there's no use for an uber tanker marauder (you know, they will be 225-250 mil after initial price gouging drops, not 500) because you could simply use a capital. It's not like the skills alone for a cap ship cost more than a few marauders will, or that the ships themselves dont cost many times more. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.27 07:58:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/10/2007 08:02:25
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Leandro Salazar The cornerstones of a good Paladin would be +5% damage and +7.5% tracking. Add two other useful bonuses to the mix, and you get a ship that will be really good. The totally overtanked stuff some people are suggesting here would be just as worthless as the current design. Interactive missioning (and I assume CCP prefers people actually playing their game rather than AFK-grinding) is about as much gank as possible and as little tank as you can get away with, so an ubertank really is not needed for professional PvE. And for PvP, who would use a 500+ mil ship as damage soaker? I know I would not at least... Might as well get a capital and soak a lot more in that case.
NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Right, right, right, there's no use for an uber tanker marauder (you know, they will be 225-250 mil after initial price gouging drops, not 500) because you could simply use a capital. It's not like the skills alone for a cap ship cost more than a few marauders will, or that the ships themselves dont cost many times more.
I don't know about that price. Judging by HAC prices which still are like 10 times T1 cruiser, I would say your estimate is way low. That is just guessing though. But I DO know that it needs to do the same damage as an Abaddon to be competitive. By your logic, the Abaddon needs a nerf as well then or what? And where are your threads complaining about the wtfpwnoverpowered Kronos? (And no, I don't think the Kronos is overpowered, it is what ALL Marauders should be, but extending your arguments it must be terribly unbalanced to you...)
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:08:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/10/2007 08:12:33
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I don't know about that price. Judging by HAC prices which still are like 10 times T1 cruiser, I would say your estimate is way low. That is just guessing though. But I DO know that it needs to do the same damage as an Abaddon to be competitive. By your logic, the Abaddon need a nerf as well then or what? And where are your threads complaining about the wtfpwnoverpowered Kronos?
Meh, you're right, I retract my statement on cost. They'll probably be right around 500, like you said (I'm tired as ****, i hardly even know what's going on right now).
for what possible reason does it need to do as much damage as an abaddon? It's a tanker, not a ganker. And no, the abbadon doesn't need a nerf, it is supposed to be a pimp damage ship. Besides, it has insane cap usage which definitely balances things out.
How is the kronos overpowered? It's not much more than a very expensive hyperion with less HP, better fitting and a megathron's slot layout. I really wish people would spend less time whining about gallente and more time either A) flying gallente or B) learning to beat gallente. Heck, I know for a fact that I could beat my own blaster kronos with a pulse abbadon. In fact, I bet I could beat my blaster kronos with a pulse paladin (if I could use MP2s, as is i just have large engy 5 and amarr bs 5).
If you want to meet up on sisi, I'd be more than happy to help you find some good abbadon or paladin setups. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Arshes Nei
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:09:00 -
[289]
Edited by: Arshes Nei on 27/10/2007 08:11:21
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/10/2007 07:59:08 NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
No ofc not. Let me rephrase that: The Paladin DOES NOT have a reason to do the same turret damage as a abaddon. If you you want to do more damage than your racial tier 3 fly the kronos.
P.S. Comparing t1 BS to t2 BS ftl. Especially if you use the t1 BS of the only race that gets a damageboost with their t2.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:10:00 -
[290]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 27/10/2007 08:12:59
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Where do you get a 5% difference from? If the Paladin had a 5%/level turret bonus it would be equivalent to an Abaddon for damage and that is nearly 15% less than a Megathron (assuming T2 Pulse/Neutron and max damage T1 ammo). And note here I am comparing a tier-3 battleship (Abbadon) to a tier-2 battleship (Megathron).
Quote: Right, right, right, there's no use for an uber tanker marauder (you know, they will be 225-250 mil after initial price gouging drops, not 500) because you could simply use a capital. It's not like the skills alone for a cap ship cost more than a few marauders will, or that the ships themselves dont cost many times more.
These are T2 ships so they need to be invented. I guarantee you the cost will be WAY more than 250 mil. And how do you see the Paladin as an uber tanker? Frankly it tank doesn't sound particularly special at all and certainly no better than any other Marauder. As mentioned if you want a damage sink you will not be using the Paladin for it.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:19:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
for what possible reason does it need to do as much damage as an abaddon? It's a tanker, not a ganker. And no, the abbadon doesn't need a nerf, it is supposed to be a pimp damage ship. Besides, it has insane cap usage which definitely balances things out.
How is the kronos overpowered? It's not much more than a very expensive hyperion with less HP, better fitting and a megathron's slot layout. I really wish people would spend less time whining about gallente and more time either A) flying gallente or B) learning to beat gallente. Heck, I know for a fact that I could beat my own blaster kronos with a pulse abbadon. In fact, I bet I could beat my blaster kronos with a pulse paladin (if I could use MP2s, as is i just have large engy 5 and amarr bs 5).
If you want to meet up on sisi, I'd be more than happy to help you find some good abbadon or paladin setups.
It needs a damage bonus simply because otherwise there will be little reason to use it at all in missions, which despite a lot of bla bla is at least 50% of the purpose of these ships. If they do not do at least the same damage as T1 ships, why bother with them? Tankboats are redundant in todays missioning environment, unless you AFK your missions which is not a game style I like to promote. It is all about the ganktank. Kill them so fast that they can't do enough damage to you.
And like I said, the Kronos is not at all overpowered, but the other Marauders are underpowered and the Paladin is the worst of them. At least in PvE. And while normally ships in EVE are balanced for PvP, for these boats I consider balance in PvE just as if not more important. And due to NPC resists, you cannot 'just get a Kronos' if you run for example Amarr agents.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:23:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Where do you get a 5% difference from? If the Paladin had a 5%/level turret bonus it would be equivalent to an Abaddon for damage and that is nearly 15% less than a Megathron (assuming T2 Pulse/Neutron and max damage T1 ammo). And note here I am comparing a tier-3 battleship (Abbadon) to a tier-2 battleship (Megathron).
Abbadon : 926.4 turret dps mega: 963 turret dps
I said turret, not total. and if the abbadon didn't suck up cap so dang fast, this difference would be highly in the abbadon's favor.
TRY telling me that this isn't more than fair dps differences considering neuts have 4.5km opti (w/navy AM) and MPs have 15km opti. (navy MS), and if they really want to, 45km optimal with scorch.
Or maybe you would like to compare beams/tachs and 425s?
And let us not forget, as much as you and I want them to be geared for pvp, these ships are technically for mission running. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:26:00 -
[293]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/10/2007 08:26:56
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
It needs a damage bonus simply because otherwise there will be little reason to use it at all in missions, which despite a lot of bla bla is at least 50% of the purpose of these ships. If they do not do at least the same damage as T1 ships, why bother with them?
It does more damage than the T1 amarr BS because it A) tanks better and B) can fit top guns and a tank at the same time much more easily. I guarantee you if it wasn't 4:25 am and I wasn't drunk, and I didn't have to get up in the morning and drink heavily for the football game, I'd go on SiSi and whip up a kickass paladin.
LD out. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:34:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/10/2007 08:26:56
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
It needs a damage bonus simply because otherwise there will be little reason to use it at all in missions, which despite a lot of bla bla is at least 50% of the purpose of these ships. If they do not do at least the same damage as T1 ships, why bother with them?
It does more damage than the T1 amarr BS because it A) tanks better and B) can fit top guns and a tank at the same time much more easily. I guarantee you if it wasn't 4:25 am and I wasn't drunk, and I didn't have to get up in the morning and drink heavily for the football game, I'd go on SiSi and whip up a kickass paladin.
LD out.
My mission Abaddon can already fit 3 Tachs and 5 Megabeams (All Officer so high fitting reqs) and 3 HS, and tanks the appropriate missions fine. The Paladin can probably fit the equivalent of 8 Tachs, but 5% more damage on 5/8 guns does not come close to offsetting the lack of a damage bonus. And what kind of liquor makes you think being able to tank better increases damage? It is actually the other way around, more damage makes you tank better
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.27 08:46:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 27/10/2007 08:47:43
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Where do you get a 5% difference from? If the Paladin had a 5%/level turret bonus it would be equivalent to an Abaddon for damage and that is nearly 15% less than a Megathron (assuming T2 Pulse/Neutron and max damage T1 ammo). And note here I am comparing a tier-3 battleship (Abbadon) to a tier-2 battleship (Megathron).
Abbadon : 926.4 turret dps mega: 963 turret dps
I said turret, not total. and if the abbadon didn't suck up cap so dang fast, this difference would be highly in the abbadon's favor.
TRY telling me that this isn't more than fair dps differences considering neuts have 4.5km opti (w/navy AM) and MPs have 15km opti. (navy MS), and if they really want to, 45km optimal with scorch.
Or maybe you would like to compare beams/tachs and 425s?
And let us not forget, as much as you and I want them to be geared for pvp, these ships are technically for mission running.
Erm....How about you compare the Abaddon to the Hyperion. Both tier-3 Battleships. If you want to compare Megathron DPS then do it to the Apoc. Actually I'll do it for you (no fitting except T2 pulse/neuts, highest damage T1 ammo, perfect skills):
Apoc: 386 DPS Mega: 492 DPS 21.5% difference in favor of the Mega
Abaddon: 482 Hyperion: 562 14.3% difference in favor of the Hyperion
Add in drones and it gets even worse for the Amarr ships.
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.27 09:31:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Shevar on 27/10/2007 09:32:47
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 27/10/2007 08:47:43
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Where do you get a 5% difference from? If the Paladin had a 5%/level turret bonus it would be equivalent to an Abaddon for damage and that is nearly 15% less than a Megathron (assuming T2 Pulse/Neutron and max damage T1 ammo). And note here I am comparing a tier-3 battleship (Abbadon) to a tier-2 battleship (Megathron).
Abbadon : 926.4 turret dps mega: 963 turret dps
I said turret, not total. and if the abbadon didn't suck up cap so dang fast, this difference would be highly in the abbadon's favor.
TRY telling me that this isn't more than fair dps differences considering neuts have 4.5km opti (w/navy AM) and MPs have 15km opti. (navy MS), and if they really want to, 45km optimal with scorch.
Or maybe you would like to compare beams/tachs and 425s?
And let us not forget, as much as you and I want them to be geared for pvp, these ships are technically for mission running.
Compare the hyp to the abbadon or the megathron to the apoc please.
Also you didn't mention the fact that the mega almost has double the tracking of the abbadon so if it's a 4km vs 4km (which it will be due to the faster speed of the mega) the tracking of the abba would be considerably worse. Nor did you mention the fact that the abba uses 57 cap/s vs the mega's 22 cap/s for just it's guns.
Fyi the hyp with a full rack of neutrons and 4 mag stabs does 1131 DPS vs the abba's 929. ---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.27 09:43:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Or maybe you would like to compare beams/tachs and 425s?
Yes compare their ranges please.
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Alyxa Mahan
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Posted - 2007.10.27 09:50:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Why not? The Megathron/Kronos still has a sizable advantage in drones.
And if you really want to talk about longrange guns and tanking... fitting four tachyons the Paladin has 2025mw left, after four 425mm the Kronos has 4500mw left over, who do you think will end up with the better tank?
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.27 09:52:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Why not? The Megathron/Kronos still has a sizable advantage in drones.
And if you really want to talk about longrange guns and tanking... fitting four tachyons the Paladin has 2025mw left, after four 425mm the Kronos has 4500mw left over, who do you think will end up with the better tank?
Gallente: "W00t, we have to fit our ships before we compare their stats?!"
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.27 10:26:00 -
[300]
Someone that think the Apoc or paladin is OK must be the dumbest and blindest, more biased human being that ever existed!
The apoc cannot even fit heavy guns and a 2 lar tank (to make use of its cap bonus).
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:09:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
An APOC with AWU5 and no fitting module or rig, cannot fit a rack of T1 Heavy Beam Lasers with a single LARII and a medium Capacitor Booster II...
Made some necessary corrections, looks much better now :)
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:26:00 -
[302]
/signed
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:35:00 -
[303]
Signed
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.27 14:52:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Talsha Talamar
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
An APOC with AWU5 and no fitting module or rig, cannot fit a rack of T1 Heavy Beam Lasers with a single LARII and a medium Capacitor Booster II...
Made some necessary corrections, looks much better now :)
QFT ________________________________________
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Ixzi
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Posted - 2007.10.27 18:09:00 -
[305]
/signed
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 18:14:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Talsha Talamar
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
An APOC with AWU5 and no fitting module or rig, cannot fit a rack of T1 mega [edited] Beam Lasers with a single LARII and a medium Capacitor Booster II...
Made some necessary corrections, looks much better now :)
Oddly enough, a hyperion can't fit a full rack of 425s, LAR2 and med. cap booster 2, either.
Apoc (and many other amarr ships) needs a small PG boost, I've agreed with this on multiple occasions. Amarr dmg spread needs to be put more towards thermal on long ramge ammo, radio L should be 16/4 not 20/0 (I still have no clue why CCP thought it necessary to screw amarr on dmg type spread in the amarr nerf). But the fact remains that you guys are making stupid claims and suggesting completely unreasonable boosts.
Oh, and I'm sorry I'm not sorry that your mega pulses can't beat neut blasters at <7 km or that their tracking is worse. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Loli Killjoy
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Posted - 2007.10.27 19:17:00 -
[307]
signed
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Lord DeFault
Minmatar Satanic Red Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.27 19:22:00 -
[308]
Idiocy. I'm Mim/Gallente with no alts and I'm telling you to boast Amarr.
Any one tryed tanking Amarr Ships in a Rifter lately? lmao The PrePatch Day song |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:40:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Lord DeFault Idiocy. I'm Mim/Gallente with no alts and I'm telling you to boast Amarr.
Any one tryed tanking Amarr Ships in a Rifter lately? lmao
I agree, CCP needs to boost amarr, just so long as they listen to nothing said by Lyria, Nyxus, ect. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:30:00 -
[310]
Quote: Oddly enough, a hyperion can't fit a full rack of 425s, LAR2 and med. cap booster 2, either, and it's a tier 3. hyperion isn't underpowered (not even close), your specific argument is just stupid.
So your argument that the Hyperion can not fit a rack of the best long range hybrids, invalidates my point regarding the fact that the Apoc can not fit a rack of the second best long range laser ?
Fascinating Logic Captain.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:59:00 -
[311]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/10/2007 23:04:53
Originally by: Talsha Talamar
Quote: Oddly enough, a hyperion can't fit a full rack of 425s, LAR2 and med. cap booster 2, either, and it's a tier 3. hyperion isn't underpowered (not even close), your specific argument is just stupid.
So your argument that the Hyperion can not fit a rack of the best long range hybrids, invalidates my point regarding the fact that the Apoc can not fit a rack of the second best long range laser ?
Fascinating Logic Captain.
More or less: yes. mega beam is actually supposed to be along the same line as 425s/1400s, however amarr are a little weird with their weapons. The tachyon was supposed to be a "special" amarr thign that's 1/2 or 1/4 step above, but they are borked. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.10.27 23:19:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Why not? The Megathron/Kronos still has a sizable advantage in drones.
And if you really want to talk about longrange guns and tanking... fitting four tachyons the Paladin has 2025mw left, after four 425mm the Kronos has 4500mw left over, who do you think will end up with the better tank?
Since when has turret damage been balanced based upon respective drone bays?
Should Megapulse boats have their damage output cut to a 3rd because they have 3 times the range of Neutron blasters??
As was said earlier; it's a damn good job that game design isn't a democracy, or rather, based upon who can yell the loudest...
----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.27 23:36:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Letifer Deus NO, the paladin doesn't need a friggin damage bonus. It does not, repeat, DOES NOT have any reason to do 95% of the turret damage a blasterthron does at 6km at 15km.
Why not? The Megathron/Kronos still has a sizable advantage in drones.
And if you really want to talk about longrange guns and tanking... fitting four tachyons the Paladin has 2025mw left, after four 425mm the Kronos has 4500mw left over, who do you think will end up with the better tank?
Since when has turret damage been balanced based upon respective drone bays?
Should Megapulse boats have their damage output cut to a 3rd because they have 3 times the range of Neutron blasters??
As was said earlier; it's a damn good job that game design isn't a democracy, or rather, based upon who can yell the loudest...
First off Letifer Deus' post was in error. He was comparing a Mega to an Abaddon. When you compare same tier ships the damage difference is 15% or more (I posted about that earlier).
And while turret damage may not be based upon drone bays it is one of the reasons Gallente tend to pull out ahead so often. With their drones they often get effectively two PRIMARY weapon systems. We saw this with the Dominix. Since it had notable damage with its drones they could skip turrets entirely and fit Nos up top (till the Nos changes made that not a good idea any longer). Also note the Domi gets THREE bonuses to the ship but that is another rant.
I am not saying turrets should be balanced based upon drone bays but surely it must be taken into account when balancing a ship overall.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2007.10.28 02:55:00 -
[314]
Edited by: Lili Lu on 28/10/2007 02:59:15
Originally by: Kagura Nikon /Signed
But I would prefer them to CORRECT the dam ship, sicne is such a nice hull
Lets make this thread BIGGEr than the carrier one. Bring everyone you know that have Ammar BS to post here.
No, scrap the hull with the rest of the ship. It looks like an emaciated aardvark. and
/signed
But what is really needed is fixing the lasers, not really the ships. Reduce cap use on lasers, and pg requirements on all beams (except maybe dual heavys )
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Hastur DragonTooth
Amarr Call of Cthulhu
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Posted - 2007.10.28 04:58:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Lili Lu
No, scrap the hull with the rest of the ship. It looks like an emaciated aardvark. and /signed
Aardvark? I always thought it looked like a big power drill. Sort of how our dreadnought resembles a staple gun. Some of our other ships, I can't quite mention what they look like. At least not in mixed company.
Scientific test CCP ran to prove that EVE is heavily weighted in favor of Amarr, thus needing another nerf... |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.28 05:29:00 -
[316]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/10/2007 05:37:51
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
First off Letifer Deus' post was in error. He was comparing a Mega to an Abaddon. When you compare same tier ships the damage difference is 15% or more (I posted about that earlier).
I already explained why comparing mega and apoc on damage terms is stupid.
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Also note the Domi gets THREE bonuses to the ship but that is another rant.
The domi 3 bonus rant is stupid. I dont know how long you've been in Eve, but ships used to field 2x as many drones as they do now, and domi had 5% turret dmg and +1 drone per lvl. When they decided to reduce drones to cut lag, they also changed domi from +1 drone per lvl to +10% hitpoints and dmg, because that is more or less the SAME THING as +1 drone was. Total drone damage and total drone HP stayed the exact same. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.28 05:56:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
I already explained why comparing mega and apoc on damage terms is stupid.
Huh? You just get to cherry pick ships to best make your case with no regard for where they fall?
Fine...Arma approaches a Mega in DPS (still is less though). This ignores the fact that the Mega beats the Arma in pretty much every other department.
The Mega vs. the Arma has these other advantages (base ship, no fittings, assuming perfect skills for both): - Less Cap use - More Cap - Faster cap recharge (with only guns fitted/running the Arma is cap negative, Mega could shoot forever cap wise) - More hitpoints - More resistant to jamming - More agile - Faster under AB/MWD
Arma wins in: - Targetting time - Smaller sig
Hardly comparable
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.28 06:32:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Huh? You just get to cherry pick ships to best make your case with no regard for where they fall?
I said comparing the mega on DAMAGE TERMS was stupid. We were on the subject of dps. The apoc is NOT meant to be a high dps ship, so picking the apoc for a dps comparison is dumb.
Quote: Fine...Arma approaches a Mega in DPS (still is less though). This ignores the fact that the Mega beats the Arma in pretty much every other department.
The Mega vs. the Arma has these other advantages (base ship, no fittings, assuming perfect skills for both): - Less Cap use - More Cap - Faster cap recharge (with only guns fitted/running the Arma is cap negative, Mega could shoot forever cap wise) - More hitpoints - More resistant to jamming - More agile - Faster under AB/MWD
Arma wins in: - Targetting time - Smaller sig
Hardly comparable
Of course a MP arma has lower dps than a neut blasterthron. It has, as I have pointed out many times, 3.33x the optimal. Maybe compare mega beams to 425s on arma and thron? ~24% turret dmg advantage for the arma, and the mega only has a 1.2x optimal advantage.
less cap use - yep, you're right. Is someone denying this? more cap - yep, mega is a Tier2 and costs ~43% more. faster cap recharge - they have the same cap recharge. the cap on arma will run out with guns because of your first point. more hitpoints - um, duh? again, tier2, costs 43% more more resistant to jamming - yeah, this is a racial thing. you are worse in this becaues you are better with targeting time more agile - is it? ok. faster under ab/mwd - yep, see blasters.
hardly comparable - i picked arma because it is the dps ship between the amarr teir 1 and tier 2 BS, not because it was comparable on any of those other points (many of which are racial characteristics, and have nothing to do with the arma in particular). We were on the topic of dps comparisons. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.28 07:03:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Letifer Deus We were on the topic of dps comparisons.
Fine. Then on the point of DPS comparison only the Mega outdamages ALL Amarr ships period (sub-cap). As does the Hyperion. And if we include drones in the calculations (for all ships) the Dominix can beat them all too.
We're only comparing DPS though.
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Anhil
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Posted - 2007.10.28 07:40:00 -
[320]
/Signed.
CCP - We're optimists, not masochists. The only reason we continue training Amarr ships is the belief that things will one day get better. (Well, also the ships are SHINY!!!)
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.28 07:50:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Fine. Then on the point of DPS comparison only the Mega outdamages ALL Amarr ships period (sub-cap). As does the Hyperion. And if we include drones in the calculations (for all ships) the Dominix can beat them all too.
We're only comparing DPS though.
Now you're just being difficult because you have no other argument left. Yep, blasters are the highest dps weapon. What's your point? You can't leave range completely out of dps comparisons (because range affects dps), or simply look at the short range weapon class. You know both of these and you know amarr are strong in both short range weapon optimal and long range weapon dps, but all you amarr whiners ever want to look at is short range dps and long range optimal. Iiiiiinteresting.
gallente active armor tank better, amarr are better passive tankers gallente have better dps with neuts, amarr have better range with pulses gallente have better range with rails, amarr have better dps with beams gallente are slightly harder to jam, amarr have slightly better lock times and so on, and so on
Amarr need a boost, there are a good number of things that need to be changed/tweaked, I'll be the first to admit that. I liked flying amarr, and I'd like to have a good reason to finish getting T2 energy weaps. trained up. I just can't stand the stupid arguments and outrageous boost suggestions some of you whiners make. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.28 08:27:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 28/10/2007 08:29:26
Originally by: Letifer Deus Now you're just being difficult because you have no other argument left. Yep, blasters are the highest dps weapon. What's your point? You can't leave range completely out of dps comparisons (because range affects dps), or simply look at the short range weapon class. You know both of these and you know amarr are strong in both short range weapon optimal and long range weapon dps, but all you amarr whiners ever want to look at is short range dps and long range optimal. Iiiiiinteresting.
Actually no. It is you who is being dodgy and changing course as your arguments fail.
You said: "I said comparing the mega on DAMAGE TERMS was stupid. We were on the subject of dps. The apoc is NOT meant to be a high dps ship, so picking the apoc for a dps comparison is dumb."
And...
"i picked arma because it is the dps ship between the amarr teir 1 and tier 2 BS, not because it was comparable on any of those other points (many of which are racial characteristics, and have nothing to do with the arma in particular). We were on the topic of dps comparisons."
So I went with your way (DPS comparisons) and then you switch back. Make up your mind but thanks for making my point for me.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.28 08:41:00 -
[323]
Get your own armageddon vs mega thread, this is an APOC thread!
APOC cannot tank any better than other BS, cannot damage , cannot outstadn in a fight cannot do ANYTHING better than other BSs.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Trind2222
Amarr Celestial Pillagers Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.28 09:34:00 -
[324]
/signed And make it a good ship....
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.28 09:56:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Letifer Deus I just can't stand the stupid arguments and outrageous boost suggestions some of you whiners make.
And I can't understand how you find it outrageous that we would like our Marauder to do the same damage as our Tier3 BS, something that the Kronos already does.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Yukisa
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Posted - 2007.10.28 12:24:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Letifer Deus I just can't stand the stupid arguments and outrageous boost suggestions some of you whiners make.
And I can't understand how you find it outrageous that we would like our Marauder to do the same damage as our Tier3 BS, something that the Kronos already does.
It does more dps than the tier3 hype with the extra drones and tracking. |
Cleron
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Posted - 2007.10.28 13:42:00 -
[327]
Talking about the flaws with lasers, and fixing Amarr as a hole is rather pointless since we have had MANY other threads that go into great detail about that, and CCP has yet to do anything major in regards to those issues. Chances are they won't any time soon, so lets just focus on getting SOMETHING a little better then what is currently planed for this ship. In regards to what people said about my ideas..
We need the -50% weapon cap bonus, because the other methods to counter high laser cap use are too imbalanced. Not having a cap bonus effectively neuters the ship right from the get go. As far as why I'd prefer an up front bonus, well it's pretty self explanatory. BS5 is not a short skill to train, and Marauder 5 will most likely be longer again. Until you get that ship skill to lvl 5 all Paladin users would be at a disadvantage, and i don't believe it's fair to punish us again when our ships already give up a bonus to counter the high cap usage of lasers.
On to the mission runners. While it's true these ships were "partly" designed with you guys in mind, there's bugger all chance any one will use the Pally (as it is, or is likely to be) for that purpose. From what I've seen these ships would only make it slightly less intensive in "collecting" loot, and most mission runners already use alt's to cover this aspect.
In terms of Isk an hour, you already have the best ships in EVE to chose from, so any ship able to run missions better then the "best" would need to be superior in both tracking, and damage. It was a pipe dream to expect better, so i would be in favour of giving the Paladin a 100% mining yield bonus over tractor speed/range. No point wasting that bonus on unhappy campers.
These ships will most likely field logistic, drone or Nos/Neut mods in addition to standard weapons, assuming they can actually fit more on. As such they will have a greater role to play then your average BS. Price will be a deciding factor though.
(For those who don't remember, with miner changes added) 50% Weapon Cap Reduction (Static full bonus up front) 20% Webber range (Per level) 10% Armor (Per level) 7.5% Armor Rep (Per Level)
Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage Role bonus: 100% Mining laser yield
125Mbit 250m3 Drone bay
I can still dream ;) and uhh make it black will ya ? |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.28 15:03:00 -
[328]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 28/10/2007 15:05:47 I have a hard time telling whether you are trolling, or seriously suggesting these idiocies, so please forgive me if you are just a troll
Originally by: Cleron
We need the -50% weapon cap bonus, because the other methods to counter high laser cap use are too imbalanced. Not having a cap bonus effectively neuters the ship right from the get go.
With only 4 guns, the laser cap bonus is completely superfluous. I run 3 Tachs and 5 Megabeams fine on an Abaddon without that bonus, so this ship should have no problems running 4 Tachys without it. You might not be repping and firing 24/7, but you don't need to.
Quote: As far as why I'd prefer an up front bonus, well it's pretty self explanatory. BS5 is not a short skill to train, and Marauder 5 will most likely be longer again. Until you get that ship skill to lvl 5 all Paladin users would be at a disadvantage, and i don't believe it's fair to punish us again when our ships already give up a bonus to counter the high cap usage of lasers.
Yeah, sure. Since you can fly a Paladin without BS 5 skill, we need a fixed bonus. Oh wait...
Quote: On to the mission runners. While it's true these ships were "partly" designed with you guys in mind, there's bugger all chance any one will use the Pally (as it is, or is likely to be) for that purpose. From what I've seen these ships would only make it slightly less intensive in "collecting" loot, and most mission runners already use alt's to cover this aspect.
In terms of Isk an hour, you already have the best ships in EVE to chose from, so any ship able to run missions better then the "best" would need to be superior in both tracking, and damage. It was a pipe dream to expect better, so i would be in favour of giving the Paladin a 100% mining yield bonus over tractor speed/range. No point wasting that bonus on unhappy campers.
The Kronos proves that it is NOT just a pipe dream to expect a better mission runner than the current ships. Just too bad the designers of the other three Marauders seem to know jack all about professional mission running... And changing it to make unhappy campers happy seems a lot more reasonable to me than changing it to cater to the need of clowns...
All the Pally needs to make most people happy is changing either web or cap bonus (my fave would be web since it is so useless for laser users)to damage.
As for the tractor bonus, it might be useful for putting all the cans into the same place, but for real loot/salvage in L4 missions, you WILL come back in a dedicated ship, seeing how these ships only have 3 spare slots, so a maximum of 2 salvagers, and you won't be fitting salvage tackles most likely, so with two unaugmented salvagers your salvaging will be very inefficient at best. Plus the cap use of tractors and salvagers will be unwelcome in the thickness of combat too. This bonus is really only practical in ratting and plexing.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Aya Otosaki
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.10.28 16:07:00 -
[329]
I think this thread will fail unless we got more sexy whiners. look at the carrier thread. 52 pages of big boys like mc, bob and stuff whinage and we get another carrier blog what the day after. If you really like amarr then join mc and then whine. ----- Ignorance is my strength. |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.28 17:14:00 -
[330]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/10/2007 17:28:46
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Letifer Deus Now you're just being difficult because you have no other argument left. Yep, blasters are the highest dps weapon. What's your point? You can't leave range completely out of dps comparisons (because range affects dps), or simply look at the short range weapon class. You know both of these and you know amarr are strong in both short range weapon optimal and long range weapon dps, but all you amarr whiners ever want to look at is short range dps and long range optimal. Iiiiiinteresting.
Actually no. It is you who is being dodgy and changing course as your arguments fail.
You said: "I said comparing the mega on DAMAGE TERMS was stupid. We were on the subject of dps. The apoc is NOT meant to be a high dps ship, so picking the apoc for a dps comparison is dumb."
And...
"i picked arma because it is the dps ship between the amarr teir 1 and tier 2 BS, not because it was comparable on any of those other points (many of which are racial characteristics, and have nothing to do with the arma in particular). We were on the topic of dps comparisons."
So I went with your way (DPS comparisons) and then you switch back. Make up your mind but thanks for making my point for me.
How did I change course? Where did my argument fail? The apoc ISN'T meant to be a high DPS ship. Oh wait, you're right, cap capacity and energy turret cap usage bonuses just scream DPS ship. I merely responded to what you said. I said yes, blasters do more raw dps than pulse, imagine that. I said you can't leave optimal range out of damage comparisons or completely ignore the long range weapon class, which is exactly what you did. I responded to all the "fallings" of the arma you gave, which were basically either racial trends or tier 1 trends. Is the tier 1 arma supposed to have more cap and more hp than the tier 2 megathron, which costs 43% more? What is your point there?
All you've said so is that the highest dps ship is a blasterthron/hyp. And that is saying nothing but that blasterships are as intended. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.28 17:56:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/10/2007 17:59:36
Originally by: Yukisa
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Letifer Deus I just can't stand the stupid arguments and outrageous boost suggestions some of you whiners make.
And I can't understand how you find it outrageous that we would like our Marauder to do the same damage as our Tier3 BS, something that the Kronos already does.
It does more dps than the tier3 hype with the extra drones and tracking.
The marauders are based on the tier 2 T1 BS. paladin needs better scan res (it has the lower sensor str, but not the higher scan res? ), 6000 base cap (same as apoc) and 14000 pg. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Cleron
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Posted - 2007.10.29 01:05:00 -
[332]
You know full well that 4 Tach's is more then enough to bring the Abaddon to her knees in a few short minutes with out additional cap mods (most notably cap boosters). These ships are going to need all the cap they can get to run the extra mods they will be expected to run. Having a ship that consumes roughly the amount of cap with 4 guns that a hybrid user consumes with 8+ guns IS a problem.
Additionally i feel no need to explain further as to why i would prefer the bonus up front as opposed to per lvl. If you actually fly Amarr with any consistency you already know the pain of having to train new ships to lvl 5 (Months of training) just to get that extra 10% cap, and the difference it can make.
I honestly don't care if you can't make as much isk with her as your Abaddon, or Geddon, or CNR. As far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant. There was always going to be one stand out among the group for the mission runners, and it's not the Pally. Just once i would actually like to see a true to god TANKING Amarr ship. We have our Gank Geddon, Our Fleet Abaddon, &... well the less said about the Apoc the better.
I don't think it's that hard to understand why i would like these changes opposed to another dam damage bonus, or why i like the 20km Webber over the tracking bonus. It's different, and something Amarr was meant to be good at that never really eventuated.
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Draec Sjet
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.29 01:15:00 -
[333]
The apoc makes for a better fleet ship than the Abaddon as it can run 7 tachs easily when fitted properly for as long as you like. Ok, so it does less damage than the Armageddon, and the Abaddon, but it's the only one of the three which has a cap that can sustain Tachyon Beams.
The Armageddon and the Abaddon are better with less demanding guns on a more close range PVP scenario. Their cap just isn't up to firing off Tachyons.
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Kinta Kulu
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Posted - 2007.10.29 01:30:00 -
[334]
/Signed
Any chance i can get all my SP reimbursed and put into gallente instead
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Ereinion Erinsal
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Posted - 2007.10.29 02:44:00 -
[335]
Edited by: Ereinion Erinsal on 29/10/2007 02:46:01 /signed in my blood /wrists Baby Jesus cries for Amarr. I played them because I liked the thought of lasers, not knowing that I would waste a year training frig / cruiser / bs 5 for them (and the laser / cap skills, and lets not forget training for tech 2 noses, **** im screwed each way). CCP, please let me redo my spaceship command skillpoints so I can fly a ship that is worth it (maybe a Myrm, oh wait, nvrmind). The only 2 ships amarr have going for the is the Titan, and what, 5 people can fly them, and the Geddon with Pulses, getting 700 dps out on a mission ship with a tank is priceless. I sold my Abbadon because it can't tank and fire. /---\ ()CCP() (HELP!!!!)>Amarr Amarr> Buff Pl0x? CCP>LALALA!! Can't hear you
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.29 05:17:00 -
[336]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/10/2007 05:23:42 Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/10/2007 05:18:09
Originally by: Cleron You know full well that 4 Tach's is more then enough to bring the Abaddon to her knees in a few short minutes with out additional cap mods (most notably cap boosters). These ships are going to need all the cap they can get to run the extra mods they will be expected to run. Having a ship that consumes roughly the amount of cap with 4 guns that a hybrid user consumes with 8+ guns IS a problem.
Additionally i feel no need to explain further as to why i would prefer the bonus up front as opposed to per lvl. If you actually fly Amarr with any consistency you already know the pain of having to train new ships to lvl 5 (Months of training) just to get that extra 10% cap, and the difference it can make.
4 tachs? I'm assuming you mean 8 tachs on an abaddon. And yes, it eats up cap like crazy, but you also have to remember that a tachyon abbadon has badass dps. 25% more than a 425 hyperion. That's pretty crazy like. However, I do think amarr need a 15% or so cap usage reduction. Laser cap use should be HIGH, but not quite as high as it is and with the trend in amarr going towards dmg/rof bonuses instead of the cap usage reduction, the, "why should lasers use less cap (with bonuses) than hybrids" is much less of a factor. Remember though, amarr are technically supposed to be plate tankers, so saying they cant run reps as well as gallente because of their gun cap use is somewhat a moot point. Gallente can't plate tank as well as amarr, at least on amarr ships with an armor res. or armor hp bonus. But for that to be a really valid argument, more amarr ships need to see a plate tank advantage. Maybe increase base armor hp and/or give more ships armor hp/armor res bonuses? The damnation has sick ass plate tanking capability with both an armor res and armor hp bonus. Maybe replace the apoc's cap capacity bonus for armor hp bonus? triple 1600 tung, triple trimark plate tanked apoc would be pretty crazy with 50% armor bonus. With my slaves I'd have 73K armor. o_0 I'm guessing most of you amarr would rather have that bonus than the cap bonus? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:28:00 -
[337]
No one said APOC role shoudl be dps, biut it has NO ROLE!!! because it cannto make any fit that bennefit formits huge cap (not so huge sdince hyperion has almost same cap)
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:32:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
yes, it eats up cap like crazy, but you also have to remember that a tachyon abbadon has badass dps. 25% more than a 425 hyperion.
Yeah but 425 has more range.
Funny how people forget about the range when talking about long range hybrids compared to tachs but then bring the issue back when discussing blasters vs pulses.
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Zana Kito
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:40:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Letifer Deus
yes, it eats up cap like crazy, but you also have to remember that a tachyon abbadon has badass dps. 25% more than a 425 hyperion.
Yeah but 425 has more range.
Funny how people forget about the range when talking about long range hybrids compared to tachs but then bring the issue back when discussing blasters vs pulses.
It doesn't do more dps factoring in 2 RCU II for geddon to fit tachs, or abbadon to fit all cap rechargers to even sustain fire.
Not only that, but it doesn't do anywhere near railgun dps after factoring in resists. Fail. |
CountDrakula
Fracked Inc Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:52:00 -
[340]
people serrisly where you all born yesterday, or did you fail to look at the paladin propelry. Ive flown the 8 heat sink geddon when that was allowed and i nnow fly megats, but im sure as hell getting a paladin. Reason is quiet simple. have a good long think about its bonuses people
Killer Hamster on the loose |
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Zana Kito
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:05:00 -
[341]
Originally by: CountDrakula people serrisly where you all born yesterday, or did you fail to look at the paladin propelry. Ive flown the 8 heat sink geddon when that was allowed and i nnow fly megats, but im sure as hell getting a paladin. Reason is quiet simple. have a good long think about its bonuses people
So enlighten everyone else on why the paladin is so superior to the kronos or other marauder.. |
Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:13:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Letifer Deus
yes, it eats up cap like crazy, but you also have to remember that a tachyon abbadon has badass dps. 25% more than a 425 hyperion.
Yeah but 425 has more range.
Funny how people forget about the range when talking about long range hybrids compared to tachs but then bring the issue back when discussing blasters vs pulses.
The paradox... it is sad is it not?
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Hastur DragonTooth
Amarr Call of Cthulhu
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:19:00 -
[343]
Originally by: CountDrakula people serrisly where you all born yesterday, or did you fail to look at the paladin propelry. Ive flown the 8 heat sink geddon when that was allowed and i nnow fly megats, but im sure as hell getting a paladin. Reason is quiet simple. have a good long think about its bonuses people
Wonderful bonus. You'll be able to lock onto people's ships with tractor beams in this patch. Fitting a full rack of them the paladin will become a super huggin, able to snare entire fleets. Am I right? <cough>
There's one consolation in all this. The frenchies are now learing about "balance", "oomph" and being told to "adapt." At least we're no longer alone.
Scientific test CCP ran to prove that EVE is heavily weighted in favor of Amarr, thus needing another nerf... |
Khurrak
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:52:00 -
[344]
I agree with the learn how to make something that doesnt suck vs signers. first, you pay for what you get, second, the things designed for gunning, and has more cpu than the geddon.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.29 10:08:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Hastur DragonTooth
Originally by: CountDrakula people serrisly where you all born yesterday, or did you fail to look at the paladin propelry. Ive flown the 8 heat sink geddon when that was allowed and i nnow fly megats, but im sure as hell getting a paladin. Reason is quiet simple. have a good long think about its bonuses people
Wonderful bonus. You'll be able to lock onto people's ships with tractor beams in this patch. Fitting a full rack of them the paladin will become a super huggin, able to snare entire fleets. Am I right? <cough>
There's one consolation in all this. The frenchies are now learing about "balance", "oomph" and being told to "adapt." At least we're no longer alone.
Company is always nice.
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Maresalul
Momentum. The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:20:00 -
[346]
/signed
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Horus Dark
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:27:00 -
[347]
yeah lets take a looong look: PALA: 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
Kronos: 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage per Gallente BS level 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Gallente BS level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level 7.5% bonus to large hybrid turret tracking per Marauder level Role bonus: 100% bonus to large hybrid turret damage Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
------ Soooo basicly we traded a 5% dmg bonus for 5% cap bonus while firing only 4 guns.. I am done looking...are you?
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Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:34:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Horus Dark yeah lets take a looong look: PALA: 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
Kronos: 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage per Gallente BS level 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Gallente BS level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level 7.5% bonus to large hybrid turret tracking per Marauder level Role bonus: 100% bonus to large hybrid turret damage Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
------ Soooo basicly we traded a 5% dmg bonus for 5% cap bonus while firing only 4 guns.. I am done looking...are you?
Lame isn't it? that amarr have to have a 5% cap bonus and most of the other races get a dmg bonus.
THIS is why Amarr will always be at the bottom - they waste a bonus on ALL there ships!
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BobGhengisKhan
Evolution
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:55:00 -
[349]
/signed. 4 years and going
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Ronja
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:57:00 -
[350]
Fix the damn Apoc!
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Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:17:00 -
[351]
Don't model new things after broken things! It's basic common sense! -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:10:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Originally by: Horus Dark yeah lets take a looong look: PALA: 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
Kronos: 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage per Gallente BS level 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Gallente BS level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level 7.5% bonus to large hybrid turret tracking per Marauder level Role bonus: 100% bonus to large hybrid turret damage Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
------ Soooo basicly we traded a 5% dmg bonus for 5% cap bonus while firing only 4 guns.. I am done looking...are you?
Lame isn't it? that amarr have to have a 5% cap bonus and most of the other races get a dmg bonus.
THIS is why Amarr will always be at the bottom - they waste a bonus on ALL there ships!
Actually: cap is not a bad bonus, at least not when the paladin have less base cap than the apoc.
i guess this just shows that lasers need a bonus applied to be good, just like all other weapons. (currently the only "built inn" bonus is the range on the close range weapons, and that is payed for with immense cap need on all lasers, even the frigate and cruiser lasers that suffer from crap range and horrible fittings)
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:21:00 -
[353]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/10/2007 19:25:03 Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/10/2007 19:22:26
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Letifer Deus
yes, it eats up cap like crazy, but you also have to remember that a tachyon abbadon has badass dps. 25% more than a 425 hyperion.
Yeah but 425 has more range.
Funny how people forget about the range when talking about long range hybrids compared to tachs but then bring the issue back when discussing blasters vs pulses.
I've mentioned the range difference on multiple occasions. In fact, if you look a few posts back (of mine) I specifically point it out.
Originally by: Letifer Deus ~24% turret dmg advantage for the arma, and the mega only has a 20% optimal advantage (and a considerable falloff advantage, but I've never put much stock in falloff).
I'm serious, stop posting.
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Lame isn't it? that amarr have to have a 5% cap bonus and most of the other races get a dmg bonus.
THIS is why Amarr will always be at the bottom - they waste a bonus on ALL there ships!
Really, you waste a cap bonus on all your ships? (No you dont)
Amarr have a build in dmg bonus, just like they have a built in tracking bonus. Should I whine that gallente have to waste a bonus on tracking, while amarr dont? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Blind Jhon
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:22:00 -
[354]
up now maths teach: amaar battleship = logistic batleship
why we cannot have our megathron yellow iussed???
100% signed yarrr
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:26:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Blind Jhon up now maths teach: amaar battleship = logistic batleship
why we cannot have our megathron yellow iussed???
100% signed yarrr
I didn't know the apoc and abbadon were logistics ships. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:41:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Amarr have a moderate built in dmg bonus (I'd guess it's around 10%), just like they have a built in tracking bonus. Should I whine that gallente have to waste a bonus on tracking, while amarr dont? No. Also, amarr get tachs, gallente don't get a 500mm rail.
Yes we have a built in bonus. Problem is that bonus doesnt cut it anymore after heatsink stack nerf, 3xeanmII and armor tanking + hp boost. We need something special for this or a damage boost. Thing is we sacrifice alot for our lasers and frankly we are not compensated for the downsides.
We have less grid left after fitting our lasers compared to others Our cap drains faster then other races eventhough we have 25% ship bonus to cap use And we mostly do sad damage to armor and many many are armor tanked and its not really every day you come across a shield tanker that hasnt filled up his EM resist.
Gief compensation, gief oomph. Still waiting.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.30 07:50:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Cleron You know full well that 4 Tach's is more then enough to bring the Abaddon to her knees in a few short minutes with out additional cap mods (most notably cap boosters). These ships are going to need all the cap they can get to run the extra mods they will be expected to run. Having a ship that consumes roughly the amount of cap with 4 guns that a hybrid user consumes with 8+ guns IS a problem.
Whoever fits their ships without cap mods? That really is not a notion to balance anything off. I run a 3 Tach 5 Megabeam 3HS Abaddon in missions and never have cap problems. So just using 4 Tachs would give me oodles of extra cap. There is NO cap problem on a 4 Tach fit without the silly bonus.
Quote: Additionally i feel no need to explain further as to why i would prefer the bonus up front as opposed to per lvl. If you actually fly Amarr with any consistency you already know the pain of having to train new ships to lvl 5 (Months of training) just to get that extra 10% cap, and the difference it can make.
You feel no need to further explain = You made yourself look silly by forgeting that Marauders require BS5 and such there is no difference between +10% per BS level and flat +50%... Also, the abovementioned Abaddon only has Amarr BS 4, and still has no cap problems. I think you have some problems with ship fitting knowledge though
Quote: I honestly don't care if you can't make as much isk with her as your Abaddon, or Geddon, or CNR. As far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant. There was always going to be one stand out among the group for the mission runners, and it's not the Pally. Just once i would actually like to see a true to god TANKING Amarr ship. We have our Gank Geddon, Our Fleet Abaddon, &... well the less said about the Apoc the better.
Making more isk/time is the one and only thing that makes or breaks ships as high-end mission rides. All my arguments are made with the notions that the Marauders should be those high end mission ships. And looking at the Kronos that is just that, I can't help wishing the others would be similar.
Quote: I don't think it's that hard to understand why i would like these changes opposed to another dam damage bonus, or why i like the 20km Webber over the tracking bonus. It's different, and something Amarr was meant to be good at that never really eventuated.
Yeah, it is not hard to understand. Because you either don't want the Paladin for missions, know nothing about professional mission running, or don't know how to efficiently fit laserboats for missions. Or all three.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Horus Dark
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Posted - 2007.10.30 08:57:00 -
[358]
Edited by: Horus Dark on 30/10/2007 08:58:05 Guys..stop trying to make the pala look good. Ill sum it up.
- you are less agile then the kronos. - you have less drone bay then the kronos. - You do not want to be in webrange using lasers. - The other races get a extra turret in comparison to their t1 counterpart. pala does not. - you trade the %5 dmg bonus of the kronos with 5% cap more cap.
(i used to kronos as comparison cause there bonuses and layout are almost identical.
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Alyxa Mahan
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Posted - 2007.10.30 10:24:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Whoever fits their ships without cap mods? That really is not a notion to balance anything off.
But ofcourse it is! Where you fit cap mods/rigs on your Amarr ships just to run the weapons, the other races can fit other mods/rigs, like, i don't know, damage, tank, EW, PvP stuff, utility... And if they do also fit those cap mods, that just means they have more energy left for their tank, speed booster or whatever.
Using more than twice the cap for the weapons with nothing in return is a major balancing issue.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.30 10:28:00 -
[360]
Form where iun hell peopel get the idea that lasers have good tracking? PUlse have pathetic tracking, and unles syou are in sniper mode you will use pulses, even for missions bevause it has good range with t2 ammo.
And if you start to complain about rails tracking, #!@#&!@#!@ go test a tempest with 1400 arties then come back tell me mega has poor tracking!!!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Liam Liam
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:11:00 -
[361]
Well we're not going to get a laser boost so you might as well accept it and crosstrain
mind you the rate things are getting nerfed at it's hardly worth it cos soon everythings going to be "balanced" then all races will be crap not just Amarr
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:19:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Liam Liam Well we're not going to get a laser boost so you might as well accept it and crosstrain
mind you the rate things are getting nerfed at it's hardly worth it cos soon everythings going to be "balanced" then all races will be crap not just Amarr
In nerf bats we trust.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:12:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Whoever fits their ships without cap mods? That really is not a notion to balance anything off.
But ofcourse it is! Where you fit cap mods/rigs on your Amarr ships just to run the weapons, the other races can fit other mods/rigs, like, i don't know, damage, tank, EW, PvP stuff, utility... And if they do also fit those cap mods, that just means they have more energy left for their tank, speed booster or whatever.
Using more than twice the cap for the weapons with nothing in return is a major balancing issue.
I wish people wouldn't completely ignore my amarr proposal. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:25:00 -
[364]
Oomph - What was this again? -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.31 14:48:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Madla Mafia Oomph - What was this again?
That's the sound we Amarr pilots make when CCP bends us over.
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Entreri Finwe
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.11.01 07:47:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
[...]
Amarr have a moderate built in dmg bonus (I'd guess it's around 10%), just like they have a built in tracking bonus. Should I whine that gallente have to waste a bonus on tracking, while amarr dont? No. Also, amarr get tachs, gallente don't get a 500mm rail.
Dual 250 mm -> 350 mm -> 425 mm Dual Heavy Beam -> Mega Beam -> Tachyon Beam
You wanted what?
You do know that hybrids are the only weapon class that gets 6 turrets for each size class (except for XL)?
Originally by: jarack I de-synced in my bathroom once, now i have no where to wash my hands
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Ruciza
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Posted - 2007.11.01 08:47:00 -
[367]
'Amarr complain, they always do, but that's just idle chatter. Our balance brings rewards for all, at least for all who matter.'
Apoc has a role, and people report it sometimes on these very forums. These go like "OMG I killed a NeutronMega easily with this setup." Or in one of these threads (maybe even this one) there was a guy saying (paraphrasing) "well, it isn't so hard to figure out looking at the bonuses on the Apoc. It's very effective." The devs probably wring their hands in disbelief (or disgust?) because you just don't get it. Some people at least do.
They won't tell ya, forget it. Figure it out on your own or whine in ignorance.
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Paeniteo
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Posted - 2007.11.01 09:10:00 -
[368]
/signed
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Torco
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Posted - 2007.11.01 11:08:00 -
[369]
/signed
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Paeniteo
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Posted - 2007.11.01 11:17:00 -
[370]
Oh and can you plz delete all the other Amarr 'filler' ships too?
Thx.
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar Unified Naval Command
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Posted - 2007.11.02 00:38:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Ruciza 'Amarr complain, they always do, but that's just idle chatter. Our balance brings rewards for all, at least for all who matter.'
Apoc has a role, and people report it sometimes on these very forums. These go like "OMG I killed a NeutronMega easily with this setup." Or in one of these threads (maybe even this one) there was a guy saying (paraphrasing) "well, it isn't so hard to figure out looking at the bonuses on the Apoc. It's very effective." The devs probably wring their hands in disbelief (or disgust?) because you just don't get it. Some people at least do.
They won't tell ya, forget it. Figure it out on your own or whine in ignorance.
yup. it's tanking. thats right, low grade weapons, hellatank with dual reps. your not going to kill anything but you won't die 1v1 either. but i might be wrong. my punisher can take one hell of a beating ( 1rat destroyer, 7rat frigs) and still take one of them down. with better cap i might be able to run two reps continuialy.
I'm only dabbling in ammar but it sucks so far. training for cruisers next. man that's gunna suck. is it even worth it? --- WCS Nerf yes i'm still angry |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.11.02 01:05:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Kerdrak And give us a yellow megathron.
THX
ohhhh that would be nice, or even silver?
got chrome?
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.11.02 02:46:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Jones Maloy
Originally by: Ruciza 'Amarr complain, they always do, but that's just idle chatter. Our balance brings rewards for all, at least for all who matter.'
Apoc has a role, and people report it sometimes on these very forums. These go like "OMG I killed a NeutronMega easily with this setup." Or in one of these threads (maybe even this one) there was a guy saying (paraphrasing) "well, it isn't so hard to figure out looking at the bonuses on the Apoc. It's very effective." The devs probably wring their hands in disbelief (or disgust?) because you just don't get it. Some people at least do.
They won't tell ya, forget it. Figure it out on your own or whine in ignorance.
yup. it's tanking. thats right, low grade weapons, hellatank with dual reps. your not going to kill anything but you won't die 1v1 either. but i might be wrong. my punisher can take one hell of a beating ( 1rat destroyer, 7rat frigs) and still take one of them down. with better cap i might be able to run two reps continuialy.
I'm only dabbling in ammar but it sucks so far. training for cruisers next. man that's gunna suck. is it even worth it?
the arbi is nice, but you could just train gallente and use their drone boat with other functional cruisers too. ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer |
Yerik Locke
Caldari The New Order. United Connection's
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Posted - 2007.11.02 05:45:00 -
[374]
I'm a bit disappointed by its lack of... competence regarding what it should do well [tank, ok... it has a good tank, but aren't amarr supposed to have superior armor tanks? it's upgraded but average.]
I'll still probably buy a Marauder if they go with the Carthum color scheme.
Only, this time it will have only half the characteristics of a Carthum ship: [X] Look mean [ ] Be mean
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