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Virgin Media Have Just Screwed EVE

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heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:53:00 - [31] UL max, get round there and burn it down.
The Snowman Gallente Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:54:00 - [32] well if Virgin are saying its something that needs to be done on the prgrammer or user end than surly it cant be something THAT difficult to overcome. Im not defending Virgin in anyway, but since ADSL has gone over to the likes of 4 and 8+ MB lines its even bigger and faster for crap to be spreading. Gamers are usually keen people IT wise, but if you look at the machines of the common home-pc user they have absoloutly TONS of crap loaded in their process'es and all this crap is often spyware or hidden updater programs. The large majority of the time when I goto someones house who is complaining of slow internet access its because of the sheer amount of rubbish which is installed... so if there was an automatic way of throttling all the minor "low priority" applications then I applaud virgin for trying to save themselves some bandwidth and help the tpyical home user get better access. I'm on virgin cable too (XL 20mb) and cable is slightly different to ADSL, in that you share your bandwidth with other users in a given section (say a street, or block) and so during peak times I dont often get my full 20mb! and in somecases it gets really bad!.. so a program which automatically throttled these users who are non-the wiser is a good thing for me! Provided of course I dont have too much trouble with getting my own stuff throttled.
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:59:00 - [33] this is what virgin have said using remote assistance. I think it will explain alot. User (22:28):Mainly ventrilo, its also affecting Eve Online and also it seems to be affecting steam as well as its not allowing me to update it User (22:29): Teamspeak and xbox live are fine as are my intrnet speeds. Infact my gaming on xbox live seem more stable than ever. Chris (22:40):From the information that I've gathered regarding certain programs (Ventrilo and a select few games) It appears that they are marking themeselves as low priority traffic. Our traffic management systems are picking them up as "Low Priority" as it should and placing this information towards the back to allow high priority traffic through. Basically the game/program marks itself as low priority, and thus causes the ping spikes, if you could please email the programs developers to find out if their program marks their information packets as "Low Priorty" If that is the case then our filtering system is performing its duty correctly, however obviously this is a problem for you and something the developers will need to fix User (22:41):Well they were both working fine up until friday Chris (22:42):I know, its something thats been implemented it checks packet priorty and arranges due to priority Chris (22:42):as its marking as low Chris (22:42):its sent to the back User (22:43):So this is a new system being put into place then/ Chris (22:44):Yes it allows us to priortise certain traffic depending on what the application specifies and requests, Its really upto the game and application developers now to re-proritise thier programmes and then our system will hopefully give a more stable game environment and filter the rubbish out. Unfortunately some apps are seen as rubbish at this time until the creators fix them User (22:44):Ok, thanks for all the help So there you go fellas hope that explains it. Would be nice to see if CCP are doing anything about this. MAX
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:01:00 - [34] get rid and hope theres someone else that can hook u up in the sticks.
Vint Rotach	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:07:00 - [35] Err.. Let me get this right. Theyve implented a system that checks the packet headers to see what it describes its priority as, then routes traffic based on that priority... Well thats fine, so long as everyone plays by the rules and fairly and honestly describes their own priority. But can YOU spot the flaw? "New and improved P2P! We set our traffic to HIGHEST priority! Even faster than HTML and VOIP!" Then you're back to square one, all the devs, script kiddies, hackers, just bump the priority of their packets to the highest. DUH
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:10:00 - [36] You know, I was wondering why EvE was going horrendously slow/high ping whilst my download speeds were fine. ******* Virgin. At least they said they'd change it if CCP give them a ring, thus we just have to wait for CCP to contact them and everything to go back to it's usual half-laggy virgin self.
Tahlma Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:13:00 - [37] I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. The real concern here is internet censorship. The internet is the only media outlet for regular people. Mainstream media is 100% corporate owned and highly censored. They only show what they want you to know, and the internet is the last place for people to find even the slightest hint of truthà once you learn how to navigate past the ****. If you want a good example look into US presidential candidate Ron Brown.
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Vint Rotach "New and improved P2P! We set our traffic to HIGHEST priority! Even faster than HTML and VOIP!" Then you're back to square one, all the devs, script kiddies, hackers, just bump the priority of their packets to the highest. DUH Also, this.
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:14:00 - [39] OK Virgin are telling huge lies to their customers there. It's traffic shaping, pure and simple. It's nothing to do with "application priority" ffs, that's a load of total cobblers and there's no reason any ISP would implement that when traffic shaping does the job they're after (restricting the useage of high-use customers). Answer? Do what I did when Nildram introduced traffic shaping. Give them the finger and move to a small, independent ISP that doesn't use traffic shaping. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:15:00 - [40] Originally by: Tahlma I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. The real concern here is internet censorship. The internet is the only media outlet for regular people. Mainstream media is 100% corporate owned and highly censored. They only show what they want you to know, and the internet is the last place for people to find even the slightest hint of truthà once you learn how to navigate past the ****. If you want a good example look into US presidential candidate Ron Brown. dunno what you are babbling on about m8 but the real concern here is most definatly not internet censorship. lol
Tahlma Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:23:00 - [41] Originally by: heheheh Originally by: Tahlma I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. The real concern here is internet censorship. The internet is the only media outlet for regular people. Mainstream media is 100% corporate owned and highly censored. They only show what they want you to know, and the internet is the last place for people to find even the slightest hint of truthà once you learn how to navigate past the ****. If you want a good example look into US presidential candidate Ron Brown. dunno what you are babbling on about m8 but the real concern here is most definatly not internet censorship. lol Okay, maybe I'm just being paranoid.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:23:00 - [42] Edited by: N1fty on 28/11/2007 10:25:08 I found this programme which I think will let you set all packets at highest priority. I refere specifically to this section of its documentation. Could be wrong though ============================================
shivan Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:26:00 - [43] TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. Station Ping Pong
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:30:00 - [44] Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. BT customer service is just as bad as virgins, trust me, ive worked for both cowboys.
Barliman Butterbur	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Maximada Being having serious high latencies in EVE for the past few days. however my broadband speeds were good. I got in touch with my ISP Virgin Media and explained the problem. What i heard was shocking and I will be interested to see if anyone else on Virgin ADSL has been effected. Basically Virgin have introduced what they call a 'Developer Prioritising System' and programs that are not set for high priorities by developer will come down the line really slow to make way for more important traffic. Known programmes so far that are being effected badly by vurgins new brainwave are EVE and the new version of Ventrilo. Virgin say that they have only introduced it recently and it is only active on ADSL. They also told me that it was upto the developers of certain programmes to set their applications priorities as high to avoid being throttled by this new system. They say the system has only been implemented in the east of england so far but will be implemented on the rest of the network within the coming weeks. To me this is pathetic. Im switch ISP tomorrow. I dont know who to choose yet so any input on that would be good. Also it would be nice if the devs could verify this with virgin and either work something out or slap richard branson a few times. Im paying for both services after all. Max. Ok, not read all of the replies to his so I apologise for that - just wanted to add my comment to the main post. I have been a virgin broadband customer since they took over ntl a while back and until about 12 months ago the service was good. However, over the last year the service has gone from bad to worse with lots of dropped connections and a couple of instances of no service at all. I have done the usual complain thing and have been rewarded with a tenner credited to my account (whoopie do!). However, it all came to a head about two weeks ago when there was virtually no service from Virgin for nearly five days. I have now signed up for a new ISP and cancelled Virgin, who now seem to be concerned (1 letter and 2 phone calls so far). I did suspect that Virgin had put in place some form of service manager and that was the reason for the dropped connections - the OP seems to confirm this. I also suspect that they have been doing it for some time now, not just recently. Anyway, rant over. If ur not happy, vote with ur feet is wot I say.
shivan Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:50:00 - [46] Originally by: heheheh Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. BT customer service is just as bad as virgins, trust me, ive worked for both cowboys. But the point I was trying to make was that their customer service is not as bad as the smaller companies. Such as XLN Telecom, Utility Wearhouse or Talktalk. These are just a few that I've had the joy of assiting with their customer service from being a highed 3rd party to help them when these companies were first setting up. In fact, here is a home truth about XLN. When they were first set up around 3-4 years ago, all of their customer service calls were handled by an outsouced call centre that had no access to their customers personal information. So basicly they used a glorafied messaging service to pass information on. They promised a call back within 2 business hours but people were lucky to be called back within 2 days. If that!!! Once XLN got their own call centre up and running, off shore I might add, it was customer service from 08:30-17:30 Monday to Friday and that was it. Any problems outside of that time and you were s* outta luck. And the best thing about it was that if people had unpaid bills, they normaly cut them off at the end of the working day so that their original outsourced call centre, that dealt with all their line faults, would have to take the initial flak and calm their customers down. Also, speaking of the outsourced fault reporting, that was then only reported to BT via a web interface and would take 24hours plus for BT to even acknowlege that the fault existed. Basicly, if you are not going to be with BT, then Virgin is your next best bet simple as Virgin own their own lines. Ever other telecom company in the UK leases from BT and therefore BT is responsable for the line maintanice. And BT don't give a s* about faults with non-BT customers as BT make less money from them!!! Station Ping Pong
shivan Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:51:00 - [47] BTW, I just possible broke severals terms of a contract from my previous employer relaying that information!!! Station Ping Pong
Slazia Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Tahlma I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. Not really. I live out in a small city (Totsuka) outside Yokohama. 100mbps. I get downloads at like 14 megs a second from some websites.
Hectaire Glade Forum Jockey	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:28:00 - [49] BT just kindly built a new exchange less than .8 of a mile from my house after my eastate was previously on the end of a 4 mile copper run, rerouting takes place in the next week or so then it will be 8 mbit all the way till 21 CN in Q1 and up to 24. Sucks to be you,unfortuantely. Now, it seems what virgin are describing is QOS filtering and game traffic seems to be low down the list, or specifically the port/route to the Eve servers, somethign which virgin can easily adjust, threaten to quit, write the theregister.co.uk and make a fuss, see how quickly they react.
Hungo Minmatar Nightfallz	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:35:00 - [50] Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place
Ter Fordal	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:44:00 - [51] I have had bad experiences with Virgin's service and sharp business practises. I highly recommend demon.net. Never had any problems except when my router's firmware got corrupted and then they were extremely helpful in diagnosing the problem.
Dr Grot Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place I was under the impression from the letter head on my NTL bill that Virgin Media have taken them over ?
Barliman Butterbur	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place Erm, Hungo, Virgin brought out NTL, at least they did in England, not sure if NTL opererates anywhere else though. I WAS an NTL customer but became a Virgin Media customer when Virgin took over. To be honest, NTL's customer service was just as ****e as I recall. After a couple of instances where they took money out of my wife's account without permission, we jumped our tv to sky (was a couple of years ago now). Kept them as an ISP though as it was the easy thing to do.
Sister Impotentata Caldari Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/11/2007 08:46:57 I called my ISP and the senior tech support person said that they are throttling higher ports and also using packet analyzers which plainly throw away some packets of the traffic they see as "bad", "Packet Analyzers"? Please tell me this is not in the US. I'll flip. It's one thing if The Government autonomously scans my bits to see if I'm looking at children or planning naughty acts. It's another if my ISP starts scanning my bits to decide what I can have. If I order a pepperoni pizza, I better get a pepperoni pizza, not a piece of bread with some tomato paste, because "Well, we scanned your order and the cheese and the pepperoni... they're not good for you. So you can't have them." ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:47:00 - [55] Originally by: shivan But the point I was trying to make was that their customer service is not as bad as the smaller companies. Such as XLN Telecom, Utility Wearhouse or Talktalk. That's 3 companies. Don't tar them all with the same brush. I've had an ADSL company install services at their end within an hour of me asking if they were ever thinking of implementing them. It wasn't BT, I can tell you that much. _____________________________________________ My Wishlist
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:02:00 - [56] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/11/2007 08:46:57 I called my ISP and the senior tech support person said that they are throttling higher ports and also using packet analyzers which plainly throw away some packets of the traffic they see as "bad", "Packet Analyzers"? Please tell me this is not in the US. I'll flip. It's one thing if The Government autonomously scans my bits to see if I'm looking at children or planning naughty acts. It's another if my ISP starts scanning my bits to decide what I can have. If I order a pepperoni pizza, I better get a pepperoni pizza, not a piece of bread with some tomato paste, because "Well, we scanned your order and the cheese and the pepperoni... they're not good for you. So you can't have them." No, it's not in the US, but this trend is spreading as a wildfire. There are 2 major driving forces for that: 1) companies reduce network traffic and this allows them to subscribe more customers without upgrading the infrastructure. 2) organizations like RIAA and MPAA are using all their weight to make it an ordinary practice as it slows down illegal traffic. Packet analyzers actually don't analyze the traffic to find out what exactly you are downloading (although that is also possible, but no one would bother with that). They have a list of the software you shouldn't use (mostly P2P stuff), they detect that the traffic belongs to, let's say, Emule. Then they discard random amount of packets per second for example. If we take into account how TCP/IP works, discarded packets have to be resent to the destination machine. If a large amount of packets is dropped, Emule speed goes down the drain as loads of the same packets have to be resent over and over again. Another way is to throttle high ports (what most P2P programs, and unfortunately online games use) traffic speed plummets again. This is the way for ISPs to decide what you should and should not do with the bandwidth you payed for. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Arianhod	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:23:00 - [57] When we get into the realms of P2P client's then it is hard to argue why you want to keep them because the ISP can just decide to take a look at what you are using the clients for I suppose. Games use the same system, I presume that like allways it will adapt to a new system and P2P clients or their succesors will follow the approach.
MHayes	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:24:00 - [58] Originally by: shivan Originally by: heheheh Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. BT customer service is just as bad as virgins, trust me, ive worked for both cowboys. But the point I was trying to make was that their customer service is not as bad as the smaller companies. Such as XLN Telecom, Utility Wearhouse or Talktalk. These are just a few that I've had the joy of assiting with their customer service from being a highed 3rd party to help them when these companies were first setting up. In fact, here is a home truth about XLN. When they were first set up around 3-4 years ago, all of their customer service calls were handled by an outsouced call centre that had no access to their customers personal information. So basicly they used a glorafied messaging service to pass information on. They promised a call back within 2 business hours but people were lucky to be called back within 2 days. If that!!! Once XLN got their own call centre up and running, off shore I might add, it was customer service from 08:30-17:30 Monday to Friday and that was it. Any problems outside of that time and you were s* outta luck. And the best thing about it was that if people had unpaid bills, they normaly cut them off at the end of the working day so that their original outsourced call centre, that dealt with all their line faults, would have to take the initial flak and calm their customers down. Also, speaking of the outsourced fault reporting, that was then only reported to BT via a web interface and would take 24hours plus for BT to even acknowlege that the fault existed. Basicly, if you are not going to be with BT, then Virgin is your next best bet simple as Virgin own their own lines. Ever other telecom company in the UK leases from BT and therefore BT is responsable for the line maintanice. And BT don't give a s* about faults with non-BT customers as BT make less money from them!!! I know a very large amount about how the ADSL industry works. YOU ARE WRONG ISPs such as www.zen.co.uk (a good one) use BT wholesale, this means it is still BT kit in the exchange and the backhaul from the exchange is owned but BT wholesale (not retail) BT wholesale are separate to the BT ISP. BTretail have to report faults to Wholesale like everyone else. no priority is given. the copper line is owned by Openreach. BT Wholesale or in the Case of an LLU operator the ISP, has to request Openreach investigate the problem. Anyway all the is not important, in this case it is the ISP causing the issue, it isn't a line problem, it is their core network prioritsing certain ports. My advise is argue it is a breach of the T&C to get out of the contract and move ISP. dont get me wrong cable has its advantages, fiber/coax network means better speeds in general but obviously it is no good if they bock the ports you need!
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place Your not smart at all either, virgin are ntl, they have taken it over, and also its the cheapest there is. Your answer was totally backwards.
Jart	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:45:00 - [60] Originally by: Fanjita I use cfosspeed traffic shaping software to set the priority of my packets for the different programs i use and have had no problems with my bband speeds im also with virginmedia might be worth a try for you peeps having trouble. I am having recent trouble with my Virign ADSL as well, although I would not consider where I live (York) the East of England as mentioned by the OP. Unfortunately, I have only recently joined this service so it would be tricky to move to another provider. I am going to try the method quoted above, but if there is something CCP can do this would be very appreciated.

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