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Virgin Media Have Just Screwed EVE

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Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:45:00 - [1] Being having serious high latencies in EVE for the past few days. however my broadband speeds were good. I got in touch with my ISP Virgin Media and explained the problem. What i heard was shocking and I will be interested to see if anyone else on Virgin ADSL has been effected. Basically Virgin have introduced what they call a 'Developer Prioritising System' and programs that are not set for high priorities by developer will come down the line really slow to make way for more important traffic. Known programmes so far that are being effected badly by vurgins new brainwave are EVE and the new version of Ventrilo. Virgin say that they have only introduced it recently and it is only active on ADSL. They also told me that it was upto the developers of certain programmes to set their applications priorities as high to avoid being throttled by this new system. They say the system has only been implemented in the east of england so far but will be implemented on the rest of the network within the coming weeks. To me this is pathetic. Im switch ISP tomorrow. I dont know who to choose yet so any input on that would be good. Also it would be nice if the devs could verify this with virgin and either work something out or slap richard branson a few times. Im paying for both services after all. Max.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:49:00 - [2] I;m on cable if they do this they will actually lose both my connections Join The Fight With Promo Today
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:51:00 - [3] I dont think changing going to make it any better to be honest. BBC NewsLeave some comments about isp Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services
Kenneth McCoy Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:04:00 - [4] Good christ at Japan D: My opinions and views are not the official views of my Corp.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:26:00 - [5] I have Virgin but its cable, If they throttled any games I would have the contract annulled as I have the XL Broadband which is advertised amongst other things as "For online gaming" If its only for their ADSL customers it might be something outside of their networks control that's why it doesn't apply to their cable network hopefully Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Paulo Damarr I have Virgin but its cable, If they throttled any games I would have the contract annulled as I have the XL Broadband which is advertised amongst other things as "For online gaming" If its only for their ADSL customers it might be something outside of their networks control that's why it doesn't apply to their cable network hopefully sane here I have the XL one too and I already paying over nose with them for what I get. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Danae Melios Azteca Transportation Unlimited	Posted - 2007.11.28 06:51:00 - [7] This worries me. What are these settings that they refer to? Is it something that is a business-side deal, meaning content providers are now being charged to have their content delivered at high priority speeds? And will this impact CCP's servers as well as the end users? How much of the network does Virgin control over there, and how much would this throttling affect gameplay? Honestly, it seems like UK players are really getting the shaft from their ISPs. Originally by: game box Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin.
Gamer Maximus	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:19:00 - [8] This will happen to other ISP's too; comcast is already killing P2P by blocking uploads. It was a matter of time before this happened, i for one am not surprised. Of course, because my father works for the government, we get a free T-3 line :D
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:24:00 - [9] They're not referring to application priorities, are they? I've read the OP a couple of times and it seems they're referring to actual system priorities, not a bandwidth throttle per se. If that's true, it does make sense for higher priority applications to get preference. Did you try increasing the priority of eve/ventrilo to "high"? On windows 2k, you can do this while they're running by going to the task manager, right-clicking on the exe name and selecting the desired priority (default is normal). I don't have xp/vista but I imagine it's similar.
Tyleritus The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen They're not referring to application priorities, are they? I've read the OP a couple of times and it seems they're referring to actual system priorities, not a bandwidth throttle per se. If that's true, it does make sense for higher priority applications to get preference. Did you try increasing the priority of eve/ventrilo to "high"? On windows 2k, you can do this while they're running by going to the task manager, right-clicking on the exe name and selecting the desired priority (default is normal). I don't have xp/vista but I imagine it's similar. That will only give it high priority with your CPU not your connection. The Coalition Of Bucaneers Are Recruiting
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Tyleritus Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen They're not referring to application priorities, are they? I've read the OP a couple of times and it seems they're referring to actual system priorities, not a bandwidth throttle per se. If that's true, it does make sense for higher priority applications to get preference. Did you try increasing the priority of eve/ventrilo to "high"? On windows 2k, you can do this while they're running by going to the task manager, right-clicking on the exe name and selecting the desired priority (default is normal). I don't have xp/vista but I imagine it's similar. That will only give it high priority with your CPU not your connection. Exactly. Virgin is giving priority to programs with higher priority. Want bandwidth preference? Increase application priority.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:40:00 - [12] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 28/11/2007 07:41:16 The latest trend have been lately to see not internet as a public road, but as a source where you grade the customers what they are willing to pay you in addition. So the ISP charge the provider of a certain product extra to get a "prioritized" access on the line, which the provider really have to ship over to their customers. So you as a customer ends up paying "twice" for your internet access. Telenor, the major norwegian isp did this when they left the NIX system. Its cheating, its rotten, and I hate this new way of sucking money out of people. Not to mention its the wrong use of the internet as it was intended to be a independent communication line. Sarah McTeef: You all should really try and stay on topic. Which when I last checked, was my grocery list
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:47:00 - [13] I call shenanigans. They have simply found a fancy way to decrease the bandwidth lower-tier customers use. Altho, this is technically possible: relevant article and another. Judging from a quick look over those two texts I would say that EVE devs could remedy this problem rather easily. It's up to them.
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 28/11/2007 07:41:16 The latest trend have been lately to see not internet as a public road, but as a source where you grade the customers what they are willing to pay you in addition. So the ISP charge the provider of a certain product extra to get a "prioritized" access on the line, which the provider really have to ship over to their customers. So you as a customer ends up paying "twice" for your internet access. Telenor, the major norwegian isp did this when they left the NIX system. Its cheating, its rotten, and I hate this new way of sucking money out of people. Not to mention its the wrong use of the internet as it was intended to be a independent communication line. That does seem to be the new trend, but I don't think that's what's going on over at virgin media [yet]. Originally by: OP "developers of certain programmes to set their applications priorities as high to avoid being throttled by this new system" Makes me think that Virgin media isn't throttling specific things like these other cases and lends credence to what I believe, that it's just basing traffic on the actual priority of the application requesting access. It does make sense when you think about it. Why would application X share half the bandwidth with application Y when X is high priority and Y is low?
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:53:00 - [15] good god, this is bad news for VM customers on ADSL
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Makes me think that Virgin media isn't throttling specific things like these other cases and lends credence to what I believe, that it's just basing traffic on the actual priority of the application requesting access. It does make sense when you think about it. Why would application X share half the bandwidth with application Y when X is high priority and Y is low? In a nutshell, this is True.
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen It does make sense when you think about it. Why would application X share half the bandwidth with application Y when X is high priority and Y is low? It does not make sense when you have more than half a clue about how the internet works. There is no way to determine, by monitoring the traffic between 2 hosts, what the process priority is at either end.
Dire Lauthris Bridgeburners Squadron	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:02:00 - [18] What an utter load of rubbish. Unfortunately this is becoming an ever more widespread tactic by UK ISPs (I'm not sure this happens elsewhere). Essentially people are lured in with great looking deals (ú30/month for Broadband, TV and phone). After grace periods are over people start getting resource limited, all of which you've (probably unknowingly) accepted within your T&Cs. The general intent seems to be to try upsell customers to their more expensive deals. I'd love to hear what their definition of "high priority" traffic is. Do they fit the TCP packets with flashing blue lights and a siren? It's beyond a joke. What they've implemented is probably QoS, essentially traffic shaping based on their own set of protocols. My constant suggestion for people on ADSL is to look at the smaller independant ISPs. They're generally so keen for customer numbers being leeched by the massive AOLs/VM/BTs they bend over backwards to provide a good service as they can't afford to lose customers. ------ [The Exiled]
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen It does make sense when you think about it. Why would application X share half the bandwidth with application Y when X is high priority and Y is low? It does not make sense when you have more than half a clue about how the internet works. There is no way to determine, by monitoring the traffic between 2 hosts, what the process priority is at either end. That is true. But I think some form of spamware installed can determine, be it a spamware program to install or even vista! / CCP fix for Amarr is in EVE Trinity - The Trinity of training either Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar!
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:30:00 - [20] Edited by: Andrue on 28/11/2007 08:32:10 Originally by: Dire Lauthris What an utter load of rubbish. Unfortunately this is becoming an ever more widespread tactic by UK ISPs (I'm not sure this happens elsewhere). Sadly it's starting to happen in the US as well although there ISPs are being sued. As for Virgin Media.. Well first of all like several posters I don't understand the OP's description of what VM have supposedly done. You can't control traffic based on the process priority - it's simply a nonesense whichever way you look at it. I think VM are just implementing traffic shaping (which a lot of ISPs across the world do) and for some reason they have made things worse for their ADSL customers. Probably it's because their ADSL customers are using BT's IPStream and VM have cut back on the budget. In effect they are treating those customers as second-class citizens. It's pretty much the attitude that cable companies have always had. They rolled out cable to less than half the country then sat back and tried to live off the profits. If they were still expanding their cable network then making ADSL look bad would be a **ty marketing tactic. Unfortunately they aren't extending their cable networks so it's just penny pinching and pointless. My advice if you're with VM using ADSL is to leave. There are far better ISPs out there that can provide a better service. Leave VM to the cable users. It'll probably be better for everyone if it concentrates on it's cash cow rather than trying to compete in an already saturated ADSL market. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.**
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:38:00 - [21] To me that sounds like what Telenor tried to do here in Norway where they made priorities to companies that paid them and companies like NRK (national TV station in Norway) who did not pay got slow line so people who had Telenors broadband in some cases could not access NRK's pages even. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Dire Lauthris I'd love to hear what their definition of "high priority" traffic is. Do they fit the TCP packets with flashing blue lights and a siren?. Yes, actually. There's a field in the TCP packet header called ToS (type of service). They could be using that, and developers of applications are the ones that control the values in this field.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:46:00 - [23] Edited by: Moghydin on 28/11/2007 08:46:57 ISP's are playing with customers' bandwidth and ports more and more often. I had experience when suddenly I had Eve being more and more laggy even when everyone else had no lag at all. I called my ISP and the senior tech support person said that they are throttling higher ports and also using packet analyzers which plainly throw away some packets of the traffic they see as "bad", i.e. P2P programs (that is after junior tech support guy pretended not to understand what I'm talking about). He also told me that there's a "gaming package" with all ports open and I have to pay a little bit extra for that (I wasn't even aware of this package existence when I signed with this ISP). Next day I've canceled my account and moved to another ISP. I have all ports working and no packet analyzers are apparently in place... for now. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Rabs Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:55:00 - [24] This sounds like Virgin Media ADSL to me rather than cable. Im on the XL package and we already have a simple form of 'management' called STM which just throttles your connection at peak times if you go over certain limits. Its been a long known fact that VM ADSL is well oversubscribed and VM have reacted a little too late. Looks like they're trying to implement DPI (Deep Packet Inspection) traffic management like lots of other ISP's have. DPI based traffic management is a good thing when done properly and works fine for gaming with very minimal latency loss. Its the ISP's that dont implement it properly that do the damage - Tiscali to name but one :/ Hopefully Virgin (ADSL) will get it right and things should improve for the gamer tremendously. The question is DPI will probably replace STM on the cable side of things eventually so I'll be watching what they do closely...
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:56:00 - [25] Sorry, I do not mean to be blunt but this is normal in business world. We call it product differentiation. You pay for what you get. If you are planning to switch ISP for better internet access then make sure you find an expensive provider. They would surely do no throttling unless you go for the budget package. Hope this helps. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Sorry, I do not mean to be blunt but this is normal in business world. We call it product differentiation. You pay for what you get. If you are planning to switch ISP for better internet access then make sure you find an expensive provider. They would surely do no throttling unless you go for the budget package. Hope this helps. :) What do you mean "you pay for what you get"? Tbh, this is a borderline issue and it is worth to let an attorney to have a look at the contract. Some ISP's may not have been careful enough to avoid any cause for litigation over their "product differentiation" games. The problem is that most customers won't bother and ISPs will continue to do whatever they want with their bandwidth, trying to not upset the big sharks and neglecting small customers. I can verify that our corporate internet connection was never packet analyzed or port throttled at any time. If that would happen, the ISP would have been in court long time ago. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:13:00 - [27] Originally by: warwick pearmund My broadband is excellent, 100 Mbps as standard, and it works exactly as advertised. Of course living in Japan helps.The UK desperately needs to upgrade its network or else it is in danger of being left behind the rest of the industrialised world Lifted from the BBC debate and sums it up perfectly imho. Originally by: N1fty So what your really trying to get at is that the universe is in fact Emo?
DJ P	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:33:00 - [28] OK The well known issues about bandwidth etc, (and the article on BBC) are for ADSL lines. The copper cables running your phones, and the very old BT exchanges. With cable lines (named DSL not ADSL) was never an issue in the UK market. They work perfectly. (That's the major fight with my wife who want to move house. I refuse to go to an area without cable coverage) As people said above you pay what you get. A company with 8mbit ADSL is getting charged 800 quid per year (providers who deal with companies only), and a house the "up to 8mbit" 130-180 quid per year? Are the companies stupid? Hell no. Because the business 8mbit line will always run at 8mbit without failure. EVER. They pay for it. On the other side the Home "up to 8mbit" ADSL is subject to "up to", throttling etc. And the bandwidth is limited given for houses use in the area. The more people in one area get ADSL, and more they use it, the less of the bandwidth each individual will get. And that's not fault of your Provider. But the BT Exchange box in your area. Solutions? A) Get a cable line from Virgin (ex NTL). They are perfect. (the 2Mbit is fine with EVE in bit PVP battles) B) Move house to remote areas with ADSL coverage. (North Yorkshire, etc). C) Find which of your neighbourghs are using P2P networks and report them to the authorities. 99% of them, are downloading something illegal.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Moghydin I can verify that our corporate internet connection was never packet analyzed or port throttled at any time. If that would happen, the ISP would have been in court long time ago. Hi Moghydin. Does your company run torrent network? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
VaderDSL Caldari Personal Vendetta	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:51:00 - [30] Originally by: DJ P OK The well known issues about bandwidth etc, (and the article on BBC) are for ADSL lines. The copper cables running your phones, and the very old BT exchanges. With cable lines (named DSL not ADSL) was never an issue in the UK market. They work perfectly. (That's the major fight with my wife who want to move house. I refuse to go to an area without cable coverage) As people said above you pay what you get. A company with 8mbit ADSL is getting charged 800 quid per year (providers who deal with companies only), and a house the "up to 8mbit" 130-180 quid per year? Are the companies stupid? Hell no. Because the business 8mbit line will always run at 8mbit without failure. EVER. They pay for it. On the other side the Home "up to 8mbit" ADSL is subject to "up to", throttling etc. And the bandwidth is limited given for houses use in the area. The more people in one area get ADSL, and more they use it, the less of the bandwidth each individual will get. And that's not fault of your Provider. But the BT Exchange box in your area. Solutions? A) Get a cable line from Virgin (ex NTL). They are perfect. (the 2Mbit is fine with EVE in bit PVP battles) B) Move house to remote areas with ADSL coverage. (North Yorkshire, etc). C) Find which of your neighbourghs are using P2P networks and report them to the authorities. 99% of them, are downloading something illegal. I live in a cable area, the only time my 20mb advertised line works as advertised (at 20mb) is in the early hours due to Virgin oversubscribing the UBR's especially where I live in the Student capital of Manchester, cable is far from perfect, I had more reliable connections on an ADSL connection from a good provider.
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:53:00 - [31] UL max, get round there and burn it down.
The Snowman Gallente Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:54:00 - [32] well if Virgin are saying its something that needs to be done on the prgrammer or user end than surly it cant be something THAT difficult to overcome. Im not defending Virgin in anyway, but since ADSL has gone over to the likes of 4 and 8+ MB lines its even bigger and faster for crap to be spreading. Gamers are usually keen people IT wise, but if you look at the machines of the common home-pc user they have absoloutly TONS of crap loaded in their process'es and all this crap is often spyware or hidden updater programs. The large majority of the time when I goto someones house who is complaining of slow internet access its because of the sheer amount of rubbish which is installed... so if there was an automatic way of throttling all the minor "low priority" applications then I applaud virgin for trying to save themselves some bandwidth and help the tpyical home user get better access. I'm on virgin cable too (XL 20mb) and cable is slightly different to ADSL, in that you share your bandwidth with other users in a given section (say a street, or block) and so during peak times I dont often get my full 20mb! and in somecases it gets really bad!.. so a program which automatically throttled these users who are non-the wiser is a good thing for me! Provided of course I dont have too much trouble with getting my own stuff throttled.
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.11.28 09:59:00 - [33] this is what virgin have said using remote assistance. I think it will explain alot. User (22:28):Mainly ventrilo, its also affecting Eve Online and also it seems to be affecting steam as well as its not allowing me to update it User (22:29): Teamspeak and xbox live are fine as are my intrnet speeds. Infact my gaming on xbox live seem more stable than ever. Chris (22:40):From the information that I've gathered regarding certain programs (Ventrilo and a select few games) It appears that they are marking themeselves as low priority traffic. Our traffic management systems are picking them up as "Low Priority" as it should and placing this information towards the back to allow high priority traffic through. Basically the game/program marks itself as low priority, and thus causes the ping spikes, if you could please email the programs developers to find out if their program marks their information packets as "Low Priorty" If that is the case then our filtering system is performing its duty correctly, however obviously this is a problem for you and something the developers will need to fix User (22:41):Well they were both working fine up until friday Chris (22:42):I know, its something thats been implemented it checks packet priorty and arranges due to priority Chris (22:42):as its marking as low Chris (22:42):its sent to the back User (22:43):So this is a new system being put into place then/ Chris (22:44):Yes it allows us to priortise certain traffic depending on what the application specifies and requests, Its really upto the game and application developers now to re-proritise thier programmes and then our system will hopefully give a more stable game environment and filter the rubbish out. Unfortunately some apps are seen as rubbish at this time until the creators fix them User (22:44):Ok, thanks for all the help So there you go fellas hope that explains it. Would be nice to see if CCP are doing anything about this. MAX
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:01:00 - [34] get rid and hope theres someone else that can hook u up in the sticks.
Vint Rotach	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:07:00 - [35] Err.. Let me get this right. Theyve implented a system that checks the packet headers to see what it describes its priority as, then routes traffic based on that priority... Well thats fine, so long as everyone plays by the rules and fairly and honestly describes their own priority. But can YOU spot the flaw? "New and improved P2P! We set our traffic to HIGHEST priority! Even faster than HTML and VOIP!" Then you're back to square one, all the devs, script kiddies, hackers, just bump the priority of their packets to the highest. DUH
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:10:00 - [36] You know, I was wondering why EvE was going horrendously slow/high ping whilst my download speeds were fine. ******* Virgin. At least they said they'd change it if CCP give them a ring, thus we just have to wait for CCP to contact them and everything to go back to it's usual half-laggy virgin self.
Tahlma Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:13:00 - [37] I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. The real concern here is internet censorship. The internet is the only media outlet for regular people. Mainstream media is 100% corporate owned and highly censored. They only show what they want you to know, and the internet is the last place for people to find even the slightest hint of truthà once you learn how to navigate past the ****. If you want a good example look into US presidential candidate Ron Brown.
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Vint Rotach "New and improved P2P! We set our traffic to HIGHEST priority! Even faster than HTML and VOIP!" Then you're back to square one, all the devs, script kiddies, hackers, just bump the priority of their packets to the highest. DUH Also, this.
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:14:00 - [39] OK Virgin are telling huge lies to their customers there. It's traffic shaping, pure and simple. It's nothing to do with "application priority" ffs, that's a load of total cobblers and there's no reason any ISP would implement that when traffic shaping does the job they're after (restricting the useage of high-use customers). Answer? Do what I did when Nildram introduced traffic shaping. Give them the finger and move to a small, independent ISP that doesn't use traffic shaping. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:15:00 - [40] Originally by: Tahlma I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. The real concern here is internet censorship. The internet is the only media outlet for regular people. Mainstream media is 100% corporate owned and highly censored. They only show what they want you to know, and the internet is the last place for people to find even the slightest hint of truthà once you learn how to navigate past the ****. If you want a good example look into US presidential candidate Ron Brown. dunno what you are babbling on about m8 but the real concern here is most definatly not internet censorship. lol
Tahlma Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:23:00 - [41] Originally by: heheheh Originally by: Tahlma I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. The real concern here is internet censorship. The internet is the only media outlet for regular people. Mainstream media is 100% corporate owned and highly censored. They only show what they want you to know, and the internet is the last place for people to find even the slightest hint of truthà once you learn how to navigate past the ****. If you want a good example look into US presidential candidate Ron Brown. dunno what you are babbling on about m8 but the real concern here is most definatly not internet censorship. lol Okay, maybe I'm just being paranoid.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:23:00 - [42] Edited by: N1fty on 28/11/2007 10:25:08 I found this programme which I think will let you set all packets at highest priority. I refere specifically to this section of its documentation. Could be wrong though ============================================
shivan Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:26:00 - [43] TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. Station Ping Pong
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:30:00 - [44] Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. BT customer service is just as bad as virgins, trust me, ive worked for both cowboys.
Barliman Butterbur	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Maximada Being having serious high latencies in EVE for the past few days. however my broadband speeds were good. I got in touch with my ISP Virgin Media and explained the problem. What i heard was shocking and I will be interested to see if anyone else on Virgin ADSL has been effected. Basically Virgin have introduced what they call a 'Developer Prioritising System' and programs that are not set for high priorities by developer will come down the line really slow to make way for more important traffic. Known programmes so far that are being effected badly by vurgins new brainwave are EVE and the new version of Ventrilo. Virgin say that they have only introduced it recently and it is only active on ADSL. They also told me that it was upto the developers of certain programmes to set their applications priorities as high to avoid being throttled by this new system. They say the system has only been implemented in the east of england so far but will be implemented on the rest of the network within the coming weeks. To me this is pathetic. Im switch ISP tomorrow. I dont know who to choose yet so any input on that would be good. Also it would be nice if the devs could verify this with virgin and either work something out or slap richard branson a few times. Im paying for both services after all. Max. Ok, not read all of the replies to his so I apologise for that - just wanted to add my comment to the main post. I have been a virgin broadband customer since they took over ntl a while back and until about 12 months ago the service was good. However, over the last year the service has gone from bad to worse with lots of dropped connections and a couple of instances of no service at all. I have done the usual complain thing and have been rewarded with a tenner credited to my account (whoopie do!). However, it all came to a head about two weeks ago when there was virtually no service from Virgin for nearly five days. I have now signed up for a new ISP and cancelled Virgin, who now seem to be concerned (1 letter and 2 phone calls so far). I did suspect that Virgin had put in place some form of service manager and that was the reason for the dropped connections - the OP seems to confirm this. I also suspect that they have been doing it for some time now, not just recently. Anyway, rant over. If ur not happy, vote with ur feet is wot I say.
shivan Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:50:00 - [46] Originally by: heheheh Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. BT customer service is just as bad as virgins, trust me, ive worked for both cowboys. But the point I was trying to make was that their customer service is not as bad as the smaller companies. Such as XLN Telecom, Utility Wearhouse or Talktalk. These are just a few that I've had the joy of assiting with their customer service from being a highed 3rd party to help them when these companies were first setting up. In fact, here is a home truth about XLN. When they were first set up around 3-4 years ago, all of their customer service calls were handled by an outsouced call centre that had no access to their customers personal information. So basicly they used a glorafied messaging service to pass information on. They promised a call back within 2 business hours but people were lucky to be called back within 2 days. If that!!! Once XLN got their own call centre up and running, off shore I might add, it was customer service from 08:30-17:30 Monday to Friday and that was it. Any problems outside of that time and you were s* outta luck. And the best thing about it was that if people had unpaid bills, they normaly cut them off at the end of the working day so that their original outsourced call centre, that dealt with all their line faults, would have to take the initial flak and calm their customers down. Also, speaking of the outsourced fault reporting, that was then only reported to BT via a web interface and would take 24hours plus for BT to even acknowlege that the fault existed. Basicly, if you are not going to be with BT, then Virgin is your next best bet simple as Virgin own their own lines. Ever other telecom company in the UK leases from BT and therefore BT is responsable for the line maintanice. And BT don't give a s* about faults with non-BT customers as BT make less money from them!!! Station Ping Pong
shivan Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.28 10:51:00 - [47] BTW, I just possible broke severals terms of a contract from my previous employer relaying that information!!! Station Ping Pong
Slazia Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Tahlma I think these Japanese bandwidth stats are a bit misleading. Japan has a small centralized population. Naturally things like bandwidth and public transportation are going to be better on a national level, but just try living just a few miles outside the major cities. But whatever. Not really. I live out in a small city (Totsuka) outside Yokohama. 100mbps. I get downloads at like 14 megs a second from some websites.
Hectaire Glade Forum Jockey	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:28:00 - [49] BT just kindly built a new exchange less than .8 of a mile from my house after my eastate was previously on the end of a 4 mile copper run, rerouting takes place in the next week or so then it will be 8 mbit all the way till 21 CN in Q1 and up to 24. Sucks to be you,unfortuantely. Now, it seems what virgin are describing is QOS filtering and game traffic seems to be low down the list, or specifically the port/route to the Eve servers, somethign which virgin can easily adjust, threaten to quit, write the theregister.co.uk and make a fuss, see how quickly they react.
Hungo Minmatar Nightfallz	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:35:00 - [50] Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place
Ter Fordal	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:44:00 - [51] I have had bad experiences with Virgin's service and sharp business practises. I highly recommend demon.net. Never had any problems except when my router's firmware got corrupted and then they were extremely helpful in diagnosing the problem.
Dr Grot Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place I was under the impression from the letter head on my NTL bill that Virgin Media have taken them over ?
Barliman Butterbur	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place Erm, Hungo, Virgin brought out NTL, at least they did in England, not sure if NTL opererates anywhere else though. I WAS an NTL customer but became a Virgin Media customer when Virgin took over. To be honest, NTL's customer service was just as ****e as I recall. After a couple of instances where they took money out of my wife's account without permission, we jumped our tv to sky (was a couple of years ago now). Kept them as an ISP though as it was the easy thing to do.
Sister Impotentata Caldari Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/11/2007 08:46:57 I called my ISP and the senior tech support person said that they are throttling higher ports and also using packet analyzers which plainly throw away some packets of the traffic they see as "bad", "Packet Analyzers"? Please tell me this is not in the US. I'll flip. It's one thing if The Government autonomously scans my bits to see if I'm looking at children or planning naughty acts. It's another if my ISP starts scanning my bits to decide what I can have. If I order a pepperoni pizza, I better get a pepperoni pizza, not a piece of bread with some tomato paste, because "Well, we scanned your order and the cheese and the pepperoni... they're not good for you. So you can't have them." ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:47:00 - [55] Originally by: shivan But the point I was trying to make was that their customer service is not as bad as the smaller companies. Such as XLN Telecom, Utility Wearhouse or Talktalk. That's 3 companies. Don't tar them all with the same brush. I've had an ADSL company install services at their end within an hour of me asking if they were ever thinking of implementing them. It wasn't BT, I can tell you that much. _____________________________________________ My Wishlist
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:02:00 - [56] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/11/2007 08:46:57 I called my ISP and the senior tech support person said that they are throttling higher ports and also using packet analyzers which plainly throw away some packets of the traffic they see as "bad", "Packet Analyzers"? Please tell me this is not in the US. I'll flip. It's one thing if The Government autonomously scans my bits to see if I'm looking at children or planning naughty acts. It's another if my ISP starts scanning my bits to decide what I can have. If I order a pepperoni pizza, I better get a pepperoni pizza, not a piece of bread with some tomato paste, because "Well, we scanned your order and the cheese and the pepperoni... they're not good for you. So you can't have them." No, it's not in the US, but this trend is spreading as a wildfire. There are 2 major driving forces for that: 1) companies reduce network traffic and this allows them to subscribe more customers without upgrading the infrastructure. 2) organizations like RIAA and MPAA are using all their weight to make it an ordinary practice as it slows down illegal traffic. Packet analyzers actually don't analyze the traffic to find out what exactly you are downloading (although that is also possible, but no one would bother with that). They have a list of the software you shouldn't use (mostly P2P stuff), they detect that the traffic belongs to, let's say, Emule. Then they discard random amount of packets per second for example. If we take into account how TCP/IP works, discarded packets have to be resent to the destination machine. If a large amount of packets is dropped, Emule speed goes down the drain as loads of the same packets have to be resent over and over again. Another way is to throttle high ports (what most P2P programs, and unfortunately online games use) traffic speed plummets again. This is the way for ISPs to decide what you should and should not do with the bandwidth you payed for. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Arianhod	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:23:00 - [57] When we get into the realms of P2P client's then it is hard to argue why you want to keep them because the ISP can just decide to take a look at what you are using the clients for I suppose. Games use the same system, I presume that like allways it will adapt to a new system and P2P clients or their succesors will follow the approach.
MHayes	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:24:00 - [58] Originally by: shivan Originally by: heheheh Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Essentialy, the small companies lease the lines in bulk from BT to make a saving and then pass that onto you in a few pounds saving per month. But at the end of the day, and trust me here I've worked with some of the smaller telecom companies and their customer service is shocking to say the least, you get what you pay for and any serious problem they only have to refer onto BT to solve. That's my advice anyhow, and like I said, I've worked with some of the smaller companies and they are just not worth it. BT customer service is just as bad as virgins, trust me, ive worked for both cowboys. But the point I was trying to make was that their customer service is not as bad as the smaller companies. Such as XLN Telecom, Utility Wearhouse or Talktalk. These are just a few that I've had the joy of assiting with their customer service from being a highed 3rd party to help them when these companies were first setting up. In fact, here is a home truth about XLN. When they were first set up around 3-4 years ago, all of their customer service calls were handled by an outsouced call centre that had no access to their customers personal information. So basicly they used a glorafied messaging service to pass information on. They promised a call back within 2 business hours but people were lucky to be called back within 2 days. If that!!! Once XLN got their own call centre up and running, off shore I might add, it was customer service from 08:30-17:30 Monday to Friday and that was it. Any problems outside of that time and you were s* outta luck. And the best thing about it was that if people had unpaid bills, they normaly cut them off at the end of the working day so that their original outsourced call centre, that dealt with all their line faults, would have to take the initial flak and calm their customers down. Also, speaking of the outsourced fault reporting, that was then only reported to BT via a web interface and would take 24hours plus for BT to even acknowlege that the fault existed. Basicly, if you are not going to be with BT, then Virgin is your next best bet simple as Virgin own their own lines. Ever other telecom company in the UK leases from BT and therefore BT is responsable for the line maintanice. And BT don't give a s* about faults with non-BT customers as BT make less money from them!!! I know a very large amount about how the ADSL industry works. YOU ARE WRONG ISPs such as www.zen.co.uk (a good one) use BT wholesale, this means it is still BT kit in the exchange and the backhaul from the exchange is owned but BT wholesale (not retail) BT wholesale are separate to the BT ISP. BTretail have to report faults to Wholesale like everyone else. no priority is given. the copper line is owned by Openreach. BT Wholesale or in the Case of an LLU operator the ISP, has to request Openreach investigate the problem. Anyway all the is not important, in this case it is the ISP causing the issue, it isn't a line problem, it is their core network prioritsing certain ports. My advise is argue it is a breach of the T&C to get out of the contract and move ISP. dont get me wrong cable has its advantages, fiber/coax network means better speeds in general but obviously it is no good if they bock the ports you need!
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place Your not smart at all either, virgin are ntl, they have taken it over, and also its the cheapest there is. Your answer was totally backwards.
Jart	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:45:00 - [60] Originally by: Fanjita I use cfosspeed traffic shaping software to set the priority of my packets for the different programs i use and have had no problems with my bband speeds im also with virginmedia might be worth a try for you peeps having trouble. I am having recent trouble with my Virign ADSL as well, although I would not consider where I live (York) the East of England as mentioned by the OP. Unfortunately, I have only recently joined this service so it would be tricky to move to another provider. I am going to try the method quoted above, but if there is something CCP can do this would be very appreciated.
MHayes	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:48:00 - [61] As said, argue that this change is against the terms and conditions in the contract. I am not sure how changing the packet priority yourself will help. if the problem is at the ISP end. They will probably be filtering based on port number.
Hungo Minmatar Nightfallz	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:49:00 - [62] Originally by: heheheh Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place Your not smart at all either, virgin are ntl, they have taken it over, and also its the cheapest there is. Your answer was totally backwards. Im with BT i wasnta ware NTL had been brought out, but still, virgin is crap, there prices are stupid high for **** service, and the bandiwth limits suck hardcore
Jart	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:54:00 - [63] If the problem is not resolved soon then I will try and move provider, but I will need to get proof of what is actually happening. Are there any official statements by VM or confirmation from a reliable source that I can use? I don't doubt the statements made here, I just think I will need something better to use as my evidence.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:04:00 - [64] Just to clarify what others have said, BT Wholesale is not part of BT. BT Internet and BT Connect buy services from BT Wholesale in exactly the same way that other ISPs do. If you were sold BT Internet on a claim that this was not the case then you bought the advertising pitch. ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur
gordon861 Minmatar Head Insurance Services	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:05:00 - [65] Originally by: Jart Originally by: Fanjita I use cfosspeed traffic shaping software to set the priority of my packets for the different programs i use and have had no problems with my bband speeds im also with virginmedia might be worth a try for you peeps having trouble. I am having recent trouble with my Virign ADSL as well, although I would not consider where I live (York) the East of England as mentioned by the OP. Unfortunately, I have only recently joined this service so it would be tricky to move to another provider. I am going to try the method quoted above, but if there is something CCP can do this would be very appreciated. Did you sign up after talking to one of their reps on the phone ? If so, even if you signed up via the internet rather than over the phone if you told them what you want the service for they could be in breach of terms. You can argue that the service they are providing is no longer 'fit for the purpose' that you took it up for. This may be enough to allow you to break the contract early if that's what you want to do. Talk to you local trading standards at the council they can often be helpful, also don't forget that a lot of EU and UK law re contracts requires them to be reasonable and fair so often allows a way out if the contract has changed drastically. You may also find that by rights they are required to give 4 weeks notice of a substaintial change to the service/contract in order to give you a chance to get out. Even if you do decide to stay with them in the hope things will get better it might be worth sending them a letter stating that you are unsatisfied with the change of service and reserve the right to leave early if the service doesn't return to the initial levels. I have always made a point of making sure I ask particular questions before starting new ISP contracts like, do you block parts of the internet or ports etc and also what they mean by 'fair use'. If I don't like the answer I phone someone else. I'm currently with BT on the unlimited package, not the cheapest but seems to work OK and not had my connection knocked down to 128k yet ! (thx Demon) A few of the ISPs I spoke to when I changed over, including BT, now say that the 'fair use' agreement only relates to peak times, 16:00 - 00:00, which is fine as most people don't want to run P2P whilst playing Eve anyways. Just start the P2P after you quit Eve for the night and switch it off before you leave for work in the morning. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
ColdheartedKilla	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:04:00 - [66] Originally by: Hungo Why the hell would u go with virgin? There expensive, limited bandwith and very abd customer service Go with BT or NTL Your not to smart for going with them in the first place neither are you so it seems giving the fact that virgin are NTL
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:14:00 - [67] Hmm, Where is Virgin Media located and who are the parent investors? I ask as that is what they want to do here the States. Those who pay get more bandwidth alloted to them and everything else gets pushed to the side. An example would be if Eve wanted to have it's players in the US play the game with out any issues they would have to pay more money to make sure they got better access to the net. This would also apply to ABC, Fox Networks, Intel Corp., AMD, they are not picky who - if you want to be seen you will pay the price. This idea is being totally pushed by the internet providers and the entertainment industry as well as small businesses who want to make sure others can access their content are fighting back. ________________________ Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Barakkus	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:17:00 - [68] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/11/2007 08:46:57 I called my ISP and the senior tech support person said that they are throttling higher ports and also using packet analyzers which plainly throw away some packets of the traffic they see as "bad", "Packet Analyzers"? Please tell me this is not in the US. I'll flip. It's one thing if The Government autonomously scans my bits to see if I'm looking at children or planning naughty acts. It's another if my ISP starts scanning my bits to decide what I can have. If I order a pepperoni pizza, I better get a pepperoni pizza, not a piece of bread with some tomato paste, because "Well, we scanned your order and the cheese and the pepperoni... they're not good for you. So you can't have them." the government here has been doing that for years...there's a scandal with AT&T right now over them handing over all kinds of information they collected from traffic over their network...not just phone calls...everything...
Threv Echandari Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:29:00 - [69] So much for "Net Neutrality"
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:36:00 - [70] Only thing that makes sense in this case, is that they prioritize packets with IPTOS_LOWDELAY set. This being a suggestion to the routers that the packets should be prioritized to ensure lower delays, but at the expense of throughput. So normal packets should still be close to the old throughput and delay if routing is implemented correctly, since low delay packets should be throttled if they use too much bandwidth. (Marking all your packets LOWDELAY shouldn't be a free card for getting all the bandwidth)
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:52:00 - [71] Edited by: Plutoinum on 28/11/2007 16:54:03 Originally by: Maximada Basically Virgin have introduced what they call a 'Developer Prioritising System' and programs that are not set for high priorities by developer will come down the line really slow to make way for more important traffic. If they were talking about 'Developer Prioritizing' ... The only influence that a Developer has are the Type of Service (TOS) bits, if I'm not totally wrong. You can set them to low delay, high throughput and/or high reliability. Those bits might be used as a hint, when the packet meets a traffic shaper that prioritizes the packets, because the line is on it's limits. So, hmm, setting those bits is not a big deal, it's just the question if this is all that they are looking at. ( I had set up a traffic shaper myself on a linux router some years ago, when I was sharing a connection with 3 other people. They were downloading a lot with p2p and it was killing my connection and teamspeak, so needed prioritize that stuff that EVE traffic and teamspeak is uneffected. Worked quite well. Didn't use the TOS bits though, but classified them by ports, ip addresses, protocols, type of the packet, size etc. and some specific filters that detected p2p like kazaa, emule and such things. Worked nice ... Now I got 16Mbit down, 1 MBit up on my own and so far no problems with my provider )
Barbaro55a Caldari Amesha Spentaz Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:29:00 - [72] I've been suffering terrible lag and constant disconets for the last week or so. It all makes sence now, i'm with Virgin, will be looking for an alternative tonight. Originally by: ISD Valorem If someone has hurt you out of game then please talk to family, friends or Police (if necessary)
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:05:00 - [73] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 28/11/2007 18:07:59 BT Internet are tools. My defining experience of having them for an ISP was back in the days of dialup when they moved me to a slower connection because I used their "Unlimited" 0800 service too much. Not that they ever explicitly admitted that. If you're worried about your ISP sneaking crap like that in unannounced then I'd certainly expect them to do that. On the other hand the absolute best ISP I've ever had are five minutes walk from my house. Faster connection speeds, better uptime, better customer service than any of the big companies I have used in the past. Zen I have tried and I seem to recall them being passable, unless they got bought by anyone or suddenly got popular and oversubscribed. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Tallann	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:38:00 - [74] This issue revolves roughly around what in the states is currently being referred to as Net Neutrality. The basic principle behind Net Neutrality is that all packets are created equal and that ISPS are not supposed to throttle traffic based on a) where it comes from b) where its going c) what it is. The reason for this is because it will significantly stifle inovation on the internet if all of a sudden a startup company in California needs to pay EXTRA money to the providers of the pipes between it and say users in NY. Under the current system Comcast could throttle all traffic coming through there system from another provider, or even going to competing websites, if there was a startup cable company somewhere in the States, Comcast could simply throttle or redirect all packets coming over there lines in that direction. There isn't widespread use of this as of yet, but its starting to come into being slowly. While blocking of Torrents, P2P, and certain ports isn't quite the same issue because its there own users, it is the beginning of IMO a slippery slope that leads to controlling all sorts of traffic, and could certainly lead to censorship as a previous poster pointed out.(A la China, as well as other countries) In my understanding, roughly about 1% of users take up about 99% of available bandwidth, unfortunately it makes sense for the ISPS to in some way limit those 1%.
redialer Minmatar The African Contingency Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:50:00 - [75] Originally by: Jart Originally by: Fanjita I use cfosspeed traffic shaping software to set the priority of my packets for the different programs i use and have had no problems with my bband speeds im also with virginmedia might be worth a try for you peeps having trouble. I am having recent trouble with my Virign ADSL as well, although I would not consider where I live (York) the East of England as mentioned by the OP. Unfortunately, I have only recently joined this service so it would be tricky to move to another provider. I am going to try the method quoted above, but if there is something CCP can do this would be very appreciated. I use Virgin ADSL and have been having these problems since Sunday, anything between 20-100 seconds lag/desync. If this is only meant to be in the East, I'd say they accidentley started in the NW! I'm going to try cfosspeed which have not used for a while, see if that does help.
BuffB Amarr 13 apostle's	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:13:00 - [76] exactly the same problem here. cancelled with them 2 days ago and new broadband provider goes live on patch day so fingers crossed for a smooth transition so i can get back for Trinity launch. My advice.....avoid virgin Sorry to hear other people have been having the same issues but glad i finally know its not my pc.....shame i have reinstalled windows twice now to try and solve the problem.
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:26:00 - [77] gotta say i was with virgin for a long time, and about 12 months ago the service was getting bad, real bad..... hence the change to another isp... so glad i did ! froggy DGF website Killboard
Acedias	Posted - 2007.11.28 22:08:00 - [78] Same trouble, and can definately relate to the 20-100 second gaps in usability of both EVE and vent (I am located in the South East currently, and have experienced this **** for just over a week). I've found that at about 12am to 1am .. magically normal service resumes, and remains throughout the night. The problem seems worse during 'peak times' (16:00-00:00). Those peak times being the only sane times most working users will be looking to play, I can't see this system being too popular. If it is something CCP dev types can fix then please do so for those too lazy/unable to change New ISP? The quest begins..
Zaphod Jones Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.28 22:30:00 - [79] I had this exact same problem with eve and ventrilo on NTHell/Virgin Cable I had been a customer of over 5 years with their service and had no problems until this, unfortunately I had never had a BT telephone point put into the house so switching ISP meant having the extra expense of a new socket installed. To their credit BT did everything they said they would on the correct day, and i've had 6 months of excellent service faster than Virgin ever was for cheaper. Save EvE TV
Ander Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.28 22:32:00 - [80] Buy professional tunneling and get high speeds and prioritized traffic if you cheat your ISP to think you're running VoIP or anything "prioritized" :) Problem solved. EVE PIRATE
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.28 22:32:00 - [81] I find myself thankful that Ireland is lagging behind in broadband. We don't have this kind of stuff yet. Not in my experience anyway. A better way of fixing the Internet, rather than trying to limit the crap output by botnets and spammers and misconfigured machines, is to simply put everyone who has a broadband connection through some kind of competency test, and set the people who fail on fire. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Hettar Caldari Huff Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.28 23:12:00 - [82] this sucks, i just tansfer from tiscali to virgin to get rid of one problem and now i'm gonna get it again.........ALL ISP'S ARE CRAP.
Zenst Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.11.28 23:16:00 - [83] If they want to priorotise your traffic over and above what you signed for then do the same with payment to them. I know I am and they can whistle.
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2007.11.28 23:28:00 - [84] Originally by: Kenneth McCoy Good christ at Japan D: That's nothing. you should look around for NTT scientific whitepapers on their implementation of G-PON system as FFTH (ie one fiber per home, in stark contrast to one fiber per distric US sucy Verison uses:P). It's basically 2.4 Gb/s download and 1.2 Gb/s uload, with an option to add WDM (effectively multiplexing transmission speeds few times). Now, if of course includes both telephone(lol) full HDTV and the internet and is deployed to house (so if you're living in an apartment building the expected implementation is one fiber into basement and then VDSL+ to flats), but you could actually order one directly to your home:D when it comes to fiber optics technology Japan and rest of the world is like comparing Lichenstein and Switzerland to 3rd world countries. Takt this example - this summer Corning Glass Company (leading producer of fibers in US, dudes who pretty much invented the whole thing in in 60ies) announced new breakthrough bendable fibers (normal fibers cannot bended with radius less than 4cm, or they will break or leak signal, which makes thema real pain to install). So, bendable fiber is really big thing and it's finally here. Except that Japanese have developed it in 2003 and you could bloody buy it in shops (makes you wonder how Corning made that "breakthrough" of theirs - they sent someone with mastercard on research trip to Akibara?:P:P)
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 23:28:00 - [85] I hope to god they dont carry these restrictions over to the cable service as well, I'm in hole as I have the full package of broadband, HD TV, land line phone and mobile phone. If they ruin the broadband I can probably get out of the contract but I would need to get all my other services from elsewhere . Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
redialer Minmatar The African Contingency Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.28 23:50:00 - [86] Originally by: Sprzedawczyk Originally by: Kenneth McCoy Good christ at Japan D: That's nothing. you should look around for NTT scientific whitepapers on their implementation of G-PON system as FFTH (ie one fiber per home, in stark contrast to one fiber per distric US sucy Verison uses:P). It's basically 2.4 Gb/s download and 1.2 Gb/s uload, with an option to add WDM (effectively multiplexing transmission speeds few times). Now, if of course includes both telephone(lol) full HDTV and the internet and is deployed to house (so if you're living in an apartment building the expected implementation is one fiber into basement and then VDSL+ to flats), but you could actually order one directly to your home:D when it comes to fiber optics technology Japan and rest of the world is like comparing Lichenstein and Switzerland to 3rd world countries. Takt this example - this summer Corning Glass Company (leading producer of fibers in US, dudes who pretty much invented the whole thing in in 60ies) announced new breakthrough bendable fibers (normal fibers cannot bended with radius less than 4cm, or they will break or leak signal, which makes thema real pain to install). So, bendable fiber is really big thing and it's finally here. Except that Japanese have developed it in 2003 and you could bloody buy it in shops (makes you wonder how Corning made that "breakthrough" of theirs - they sent someone with mastercard on research trip to Akibara?:P:P) In contrast to my local council who told the Cable companies: Yes, but you must leave the roads and pavements as you found them
redialer Minmatar The African Contingency Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.28 23:56:00 - [87] Originally by: Zaphod Jones I had this exact same problem with eve and ventrilo on NTHell/Virgin Cable I had been a customer of over 5 years with their service and had no problems until this, unfortunately I had never had a BT telephone point put into the house so switching ISP meant having the extra expense of a new socket installed. To their credit BT did everything they said they would on the correct day, and i've had 6 months of excellent service faster than Virgin ever was for cheaper. I agree, the logical choice is BT, Virgin have to rent the telephone lines once the cable line stops, so they cut services.
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.11.29 00:53:00 - [88] VM are a massive pile of lose the cable sucks here and they have a monopoly on everything here so if you're not VM you're screwed, if they ever think about touching or throttling my gaming traffic i shall be speaking to a solicitor the very next day. --------- Liberty Rogues Website
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.29 01:12:00 - [89] Virgins announcement - Linkage Thankfully I changed isp provider a few months ago - close call! C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Agillious Gallente Inner Circle Helter-Skelter	Posted - 2007.11.29 01:31:00 - [90] For the people in here claiming this is happening all over the United States, I urge you to recheck your sources. There has been one reported instance of this so far, and involved COMCAST terminating Bit Torrent accounts on their network by spoofing their customers' torrent programs. They got a chastisement from Uncle Sam, but that was about it. But yeah, ISPs want to do this so they can turn around and charge companies that need to use their network more for more "priority". My guess that is that this "priority" has nothing to do with a software programmer changing their software, and everything to do with that same software programmer paying a premium to an ISP to grant them "priority" status. Just some words from a Yank. Sorry to hear about the ISP troubles MORE SHINY, PLEASE!!!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 01:32:00 - [91] Originally by: Cailais Virgins announcement - Linkage Thankfully I changed isp provider a few months ago - close call! C. Phew thats not to unreasonable with my package, Quote: Broadband Size: XL During peak times, the top 5% on the Size: XL package download at least 3GB of traffic each. Any users hitting this amount during peak times (4pm till midnight) will have their broadband speed temporarily traffic managed û their download speed will be set to 5Mb, with their upload speed set to 256Kb. This will last for 4 hours from when the traffic management policy is applied. Even if a Broadband Size: XL user has their speed temporarily traffic managed, they can still download over 4,000 music files per day. That's not to bad even with these speeds gaming should not be affected as that's the speed of most connections and that's if you even reach the limits. 3GB at peak times would be difficult to reach just playing online games with casual downloading of files. The limits for the slower speeds are harsher though and it might be a poor attempt at providing "incentive" for customers to upgrade. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
maarud Scare Tactics	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:40:00 - [92] BeThere Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member <t20> i'd rather have a python in my pants than a sleipnir
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:15:00 - [93] Originally by: Maglorre There is no way to determine, by monitoring the traffic between 2 hosts, what the process priority is at either end. They don't have to, what they do is tag what's important to them, if it's not tagged, it must not be important. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_service Additional throttling can be done by something as simple a TCP and UDP ports in use. Glady in the US, the FCC has put a dampner on most of these shanigans by ISPs, though they are fighting back. Trunk providers however use this all the time. -AS The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link)
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:16:00 - [94] sounds like VM tbh i'm on there cabel 20mb service after fighting with them for months about only getting a 4mb connection they sent an engineer out who told me that they hadnt opend the pipe and to cause absolute **** till they do, which they did. They have also implemented something that drops ure connection speed to 5mb if u download over 3 gig between 5-midnight which is absolute bull on a 20mb like thats maybe an hours download if that where is the point in paying for 20mb if u carnt use it.
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:18:00 - [95] wow i shoulden't post before my morning coffie.
Zenst Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:23:00 - [96] Originally by: Cailais Virgins announcement - Linkage Thankfully I changed isp provider a few months ago - close call! C. They did this a while back when they did the 20MB upgrades. This dont effect eve unless you dont know how to schedule your downloads be it torrent or the like. Though limits aint that hard stay under during peak. What the OP described was something comletely different and more akin to QOS upon packet types/ports or use.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:14:00 - [97] Edited by: Gaven Blands on 29/11/2007 10:14:29 Well all that I see is Virgin Media are publicising what NTL used to do anyway. They've always metered my speed based on their ability to provide what I pay for. --Yes I know to you foreigners that sounds stupid, but that is the reality of broadband in the uk. They are allowed to publish, quite literally, anything, sell you, anything. But what you actually get when you sign up is absolutely nothing like what you bought.-- Before Virgin, NTL would throttle my overall traffic, which I considered was preferable to those "other" ISPs that would simply cut you off or charge you insane cash the moment you hit some arbitrary GB value. -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something?
Paaaulo	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:57:00 - [98] I have virgin media, I have cable, but I have been getting disconnected from eve repeatedly during peak times. Also how ridiculous is their "fair use" policy? after I download 750mb during peak times my net gets cut in half, I have the "Large" package (4mb). Overall Virgin Media suck, if I had a BT phone line I'd of switched by now.
Gius Adoma Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:57:00 - [99] Hmm well sorry to go against the grain as such, but I had nothing but rubbish with ADSL and no problems with cable. had it for 3 years at uni no problem and have got it again now and its working much better. ADSL used to have a ping of say 60-70ms to most uk game servers and very often my 2MB connection would only run at 300-400k in the weekday evenings (ok at weekends mind) and I was paying ú17 for this connection and it was unmetered. I now have 4MB Virgin Media cable connection, pings have come down to 20-30ms and it always works at 4MB unless i do alot of downloading (mainly overnight when the limit doesnt apply and cheap rate electric is in place! 3p a unit lol) and I pay ú17 for that. I am in the east of england and have not experienced what you are talking about except the cutting of the speed, but it doesnt affect my ping, only the download speed and considering i had 2MB before, its not a big deal really unless you spend all your time downloading stuff. = Times of Ancar =
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:07:00 - [100] Originally by: Cailais Virgins announcement - Linkage Thankfully I changed isp provider a few months ago - close call! C. That actually sounds quite reasonable (although it depends on how accurate that description is and if they stick to it). That '5% cause all the hassle' is pretty much in-line with industry experience. [rant]It's a small minority of (and I'll apologise in advance here) greedy little **s that cause the problems. It has always amazed me how much these gits manage to download. That message says some people are downloading 3GB of stuff a night. Wtf? That's 210GB a week! It's sad, though not surprising, that some people abuse networks like that but as I asked a couple of days ago:What it tarnation's name are those dweebs finding that amounts to 210GB a week? That's nearly a 1TB a month. Are they downloading the entire f'ing Internet or something? Are they so stupid as to think someone's going to take it all away one day and force them to browse from local off-line copies?[/rant] -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.**
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:08:00 - [101] Originally by: maarud BeThere At the moment, yeah. I'm with them. OTOH with O2BB released and Dana leaving the helm one has to wonder how much longer BeThere will continue run as it does. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Lord MuffloN Caldari Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:35:00 - [102] Seriously, what is it with the UK and sucky broadband, it's like you don't have anything else then crap as ISP :[ I feel sad for you, I'm a Swede with Telia, they've never let me down, never throttled my connection and I get 22 out of 24Mbit ADSL I pay for, and it costs nothing. I feel sad for those brits with crappy broadband :( Originally by: Jago Kain If they ever decide to award a Nobel Prize for Emo, Lord MuffloN is a sure fire winner of the first on
Kappas. Galaxy Punks Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:37:00 - [103] Edited by: Kappas. on 29/11/2007 12:37:16 The other end of the spectrum is Virgin are launching 50 megabit broadband next year... Edit: The question is: Why? When they're throttling programs access to the internet __________________ Recruitment
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:22:00 - [104] I'm with VM in South Manchester. For the past couple of days mu client has been slow on loading up after jumps, I searched my machine for ad ware etc. and couldnt find anything. I can only assume this has already been rolled out across other regions other than the South East.
Karina Bellac	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:27:00 - [105] Originally by: Lord MuffloN Seriously, what is it with the UK and sucky broadband, it's like you don't have anything else then crap as ISP :[ I feel sad for you, I'm a Swede with Telia, they've never let me down, never throttled my connection and I get 22 out of 24Mbit ADSL I pay for, and it costs nothing. I feel sad for those brits with crappy broadband :( It's because the old BT was shortsighted and overburdened with bureauocracy. They had a perfectly functional infrastructure that catered for the traffic they had, at the time. They ignored trends, in terms of the switch from paper to electronic media, the increase in population, the increase in information interchange, and most importantly the increase and improvements in communication technology. They got broken up to allow competition in the market. All that did was add even more paperwork and bureauocracy in-between the various parts of 'BT'. Today, if you are having ADSL installed by BT the ISP, your order will most likely complete faster than if your ADSL is from a 'third party' ISP. BT are a textbook on technology failure. Tone dialling? BT took ages to implement that. I remember moving house when I was a kid, and we had to buy a cheap pulse dialling phone because the telephone exchange at the new house hadn't been upgraded. Best of all, BT repeatedly said that ADSL would never be in demand enough for them to install the infrastructure to support it. It took repeated public action (petitions, etc) to get BT to start supporting it, and even then, BT would only upgrade a telephone exchange if enough people who lived in its catchment area 'pre-ordered' ADSL. Now, why does this make the UK crap for domestic internet? All the exchanges and associated infrastructure is owned by BT. As part of LLU, BT has had to segragate every exchange to allow third party engineers inside for equipment and customer provision. As far as I know, there isn't much third-party backhaul infrastructure in the UK currently, and certainly every Main Distribution Frame is firmly in the hands of BT.
Hermosa Diosas The-Secret-Service Retribution.	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:30:00 - [106] Ah so thats why ive been disconnecting so much lately!! Every 15 mins when playing eve its just disconnects its been a bloody pain! and yes its virgin media!
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:54:00 - [107] Note to self, When switching providers after my move, make sure to agree on a quality of service that assures that at least a given percentage of the bandwidth is 100% guaranteed regardless of the service it is used for. Or that includes "No throthling" in it's contractual terms.
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:06:00 - [108] Virgin Media Problem FIXED!!! Right Ive been speaking to Martyn Cook who is one of the leading broadband and cable engineers in the UK. I told him about the problems that we were having and he gave me a workaround that fixes it. Basically the new filtering that Virgin uses to set priorities on a line only picks up Interleaved traffic (if you dont know what interleaving is google it), but basically its the way in which information is sent down a line the theroy of interleaving was brought in to reduce packet loss however it also creates lag for gamers. Please google it to read more. Virgin however obviously have no intention to make this news available to their customers or their new system will be useless. THE BAD NEWS As a virgin customer interleaving is on by default. And only virgin can change your line to not use interleaving. THE GOOD NEWS It is a customers lawfull right according to virgins terms of service to have interleaving dissabled on your line. It takes a simple phone call to the tech support at virgin and you can ask for it to be dissabled. Of course they will ask you why etc because they want you to have it on so that they can filter your traffic (grrrrrrr) so simply say your a gamer rather than an internet surfer and that you wish to turn interleaving off. They cannot refuse this request. So dont take no for an answer, they may try telling you to read about interleaving on the net etc to decide if its a good idea to do it. Dont worry they are trying to throw you off, (anyway it can always be switched back on) It takes anything from 24 hours to 36 hours for them to get around to switching it off for you, keep phoning and asking them if its been done. I kept bugging them and got mine switched off within 24 hours. Since then i have had full use of my bandwidth and althouh my throughput is around 0.5mbit worse (a downside to having it off) my gaming has improved dramatically and eve and ventrilo are now back to the way they should be. My advice to all virgin customers is to use this information, read about interleaving, get it turned off on your line, and bypass their totally outrageous prioritising software. Good Luck Max
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:07:00 - [109] Virgin Media Problem FIXED!!! Right Ive been speaking to Martyn Cook who is one of the leading broadband and cable engineers in the UK. I told him about the problems that we were having and he gave me a workaround that fixes it. Basically the new filtering that Virgin uses to set priorities on a line only picks up Interleaved traffic (if you dont know what interleaving is google it), but basically its the way in which information is sent down a line the theroy of interleaving was brought in to reduce packet loss however it also creates lag for gamers. Please google it to read more. Virgin however obviously have no intention to make this news available to their customers or their new system will be useless. THE BAD NEWS As a virgin customer interleaving is on by default. And only virgin can change your line to not use interleaving. THE GOOD NEWS It is a customers lawfull right according to virgins terms of service to have interleaving dissabled on your line. It takes a simple phone call to the tech support at virgin and you can ask for it to be dissabled. Of course they will ask you why etc because they want you to have it on so that they can filter your traffic (grrrrrrr) so simply say your a gamer rather than an internet surfer and that you wish to turn interleaving off. They cannot refuse this request. So dont take no for an answer, they may try telling you to read about interleaving on the net etc to decide if its a good idea to do it. Dont worry they are trying to throw you off, (anyway it can always be switched back on) It takes anything from 24 hours to 36 hours for them to get around to switching it off for you, keep phoning and asking them if its been done. I kept bugging them and got mine switched off within 24 hours. Since then i have had full use of my bandwidth and althouh my throughput is around 0.5mbit worse (a downside to having it off) my gaming has improved dramatically and eve and ventrilo are now back to the way they should be. My advice to all virgin customers is to use this information, read about interleaving, get it turned off on your line, and bypass their totally outrageous prioritising software. Good Luck Max
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:55:00 - [110] Originally by: Shanur Note to self, When switching providers after my move, make sure to agree on a quality of service that assures that at least a given percentage of the bandwidth is 100% guaranteed regardless of the service it is used for. Or that includes "No throthling" in it's contractual terms. Lol! Do you have any idea how hard it will be to get a resedential ISP to even discuss QoS? Even businesses rarely bother. Assuming you can get them agree the cost will be horrendous. And I mean that. Public broadband provision has only been possible at all because it's a contended, no-guarantee service. If you want a decent QoS you are going to be talking about paying hundreds if not thousands of pounds a month. You probably want to be looking at getting a LES although I think now people are recommending a BES. Knock yourself out :) -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:57:00 - [111] Originally by: Maximada It is a customers lawfull right according to virgins terms of service to have interleaving dissabled on your line. Where in the ToS? Linkage, section, paragraph, please. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:06:00 - [112] Originally by: Maximada Virgin Media Problem FIXED!!! Right Ive been speaking to Martyn Cook who is one of the leading broadband and cable engineers in the UK. I told him about the problems that we were having and he gave me a workaround that fixes it. Basically the new filtering that Virgin uses to set priorities on a line only picks up Interleaved traffic (if you dont know what interleaving is google it) I know exactly what interleaving is all about and it seems an equally stupid/impossible way to prioritise things. Interleaving is used in the local loop by the DSLAM and the router to overcome noise bursts. Basically packets between the DSLAM and your router are split into two parts so that noise spikes are less likely to take out the entire packet. The problem wrt to network congestion excuses is that interleaving onlyoccurs on the consumer side of the connection and is transparent to TCP/IP. It has no directly visible effect on the data stream leaving the exchange on the ISP side (the bit known as backhaul) and can not therefore be used to manage congestion. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:23:00 - [113] damn' silly nuts discrimination bloodyminded incompetence That's Virgin ADSL alright. I've never gotten so much as 250kb/s on a speedtest out of my 8mb line. The official party line for Virgin is that nothing is their fault, always BT or the customer. Not that they didn't confirm 500kb/s minimum when throttled (which according to Virgin I never have been) on this line when I was originally choosing a new ISP. Currently much of EVE plays like Motsu on a sunday. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Jupiter Sun	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:28:00 - [114] Originally by: Nick Curso sounds like VM tbh i'm on there cabel 20mb service after fighting with them for months about only getting a 4mb connection they sent an engineer out who told me that they hadnt opend the pipe and to cause absolute **** till they do, which they did. They have also implemented something that drops ure connection speed to 5mb if u download over 3 gig between 5-midnight which is absolute bull on a 20mb like thats maybe an hours download if that where is the point in paying for 20mb if u carnt use it. damn right, i too have the 20MB version and you can hit that 3gb limit in a matter of minutes at top speed, for example if you pay for a usenet provider like giganews that'll fill any household cable connection. SO they doubled my line speed 'for free' yet reduced what I can actually download by 75%. I reckon a lot of users dont know about this bandwidth limiting BS and put their crappy speeds down to usage during peak hours.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:37:00 - [115] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf damn' silly nuts discrimination bloodyminded incompetence That's Virgin ADSL alright. I've never gotten so much as 250kb/s on a speedtest out of my 8mb line. The official party line for Virgin is that nothing is their fault, always BT or the customer. Not that they didn't confirm 500kb/s minimum when throttled (which according to Virgin I never have been) on this line when I was originally choosing a new ISP. Currently much of EVE plays like Motsu on a sunday. Out of curiousity what is your downstream attenuation and noise margin? -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:40:00 - [116] Originally by: Jupiter Sun Originally by: Nick Curso sounds like VM tbh i'm on there cabel 20mb service after fighting with them for months about only getting a 4mb connection they sent an engineer out who told me that they hadnt opend the pipe and to cause absolute **** till they do, which they did. They have also implemented something that drops ure connection speed to 5mb if u download over 3 gig between 5-midnight which is absolute bull on a 20mb like thats maybe an hours download if that where is the point in paying for 20mb if u carnt use it. damn right, i too have the 20MB version and you can hit that 3gb limit in a matter of minutes at top speed, for example if you pay for a usenet provider like giganews that'll fill any household cable connection. SO they doubled my line speed 'for free' yet reduced what I can actually download by 75%. I reckon a lot of users dont know about this bandwidth limiting BS and put their crappy speeds down to usage during peak hours. But what are downloading from giganews that is 3GB every night, night after night? -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Mxyzptlyk	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:55:00 - [117] Just to frame the discussion properly, here is an explanation of "priority" as (I think) they're using it. Every IP packet has a field in it used to indicate the Quality of Service (QoS) it should receive. The idea is that you give latency sensitive applications like voice, and video the chance to "cut" in line to the front of the queue and get out of a given router faster (Reducing latency). You can also have it adjust which packets get dropped when very heavy traffic hits your network (making sure things that have to get through, do). (Think of deciding who to drop like deciding who gets a "We're sorry, all lines are busy - please try your call at another time message from the phone company). The problem is that the application that creates the packet (not your OS) is responsible for saying what it's priority is, and if your Application isn't QoS aware the default marking is all zero's in that field. All zeros is the lowest possible priority. I'll leave any commentary about the good or bad of this to others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_service http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/ito_doc/qos.htm
Dommie Jax Caldari Blue Phoenix Research	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:08:00 - [118] Wel i have DUMeter installed on my PC and frequently check my up and down load limits each week maximum i have managed is 12gig in a month HOWEVER this month i have managed to use 12 gig in 2 days (yeah i know shocking) I downloaded some games from a game supplier and then had to download all the patches Where i work one of the guys managed to do 150gig in a month Got the throttle put on, so we came into work and took it off again (ahh perks of being the tech guys at the ISP) I even managed to break my download speed from 8meg to 15.5 meg (SNR of 32 on 8 meg down to around 11 at 15.5) had to take it off and put it back to 8 as i screwed the other 7 customer on my card up I have to admit that as above the reason we have such crap speeds and connections is due to the fact BT do own and maintain so much of the network, this gives them effective Carte Blanche over what happens (i used to work in the BT BBR team fixing reseller BB Issues) Some of the ISP's that have gone for LLU not simply have to rely on OR to keep the connections between the Exchange and users site intact ( and this is easier said than done) We have dedicated teams that deal with the crappy issues on the lines and we do get specialist engineer out BUT as these engineers are shareholders of the company that supplies all the connections (BT and Openreach)you can pretty much guess they would rather everyone went back to BT so they pick up nice fat dividend checks and pensions Here is hoping that the EU will finally do what OFCOM should have done and break up BT to open the entire network up and encourage competition, that will ensure everyone gets the speeds they need, and also discourage the ISP from throttling networks and ruining your gaming time
Joren Lemark	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:21:00 - [119] Originally by: Mxyzptlyk Just to frame the discussion properly, here is an explanation of "priority" as (I think) they're using it. Every IP packet has a field in it used to indicate the Quality of Service (QoS) it should receive. The idea is that you give latency sensitive applications like voice, and video the chance to "cut" in line to the front of the queue and get out of a given router faster (Reducing latency). You can also have it adjust which packets get dropped when very heavy traffic hits your network (making sure things that have to get through, do). (Think of deciding who to drop like deciding who gets a "We're sorry, all lines are busy - please try your call at another time message from the phone company). The problem is that the application that creates the packet (not your OS) is responsible for saying what it's priority is, and if your Application isn't QoS aware the default marking is all zero's in that field. All zeros is the lowest possible priority. I'll leave any commentary about the good or bad of this to others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_service http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/ito_doc/qos.htm I don't think they're even using this, or at least its not a primary filtering system. Being it seems to be more port specific. Example being if you switch the port eve uses to connect to the servers from 26000 to 3724, lag caused by port filtering drops, and this is without changing anything to do with TCP packets ToS/QoS field. Of course its all conjecture until they officially state it in a public statement/news report.
benzss Templar Securities and Holdings Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:27:00 - [120] Thank God I got rid of Virgin and got Sky instead. Virgin is the worst ISP in history. Get out while you can, kids!
Manipulator General	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:11:00 - [121] Originally by: Kenneth McCoy Good christ at Japan D: I couldn't have said it better. Or something.
Iteken Hotori Minmatar Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:24:00 - [122] Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Nope. BT trafficshape too, i'm in the proces of giving them teh finger, sueing them for an ususeable connection and walkig naway. if you want a decent adsl link, get LLU. my wang exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:46:00 - [123] I own a ISP and I can relate what is going on. ISP's are having to prioritize traffic so that voip (telephone) service and later iptv (t.v. services) will function correctly. So lets give an example: The isp has a 10m feed that they are paying 5k a month for. They have 100 cable customers. One person loads up a file sharing program and sets it to allow downloads at full speed. The file sharing network sees this fast network offering 10M internet connection. And now you have 100,000 people that see this new mp3 they were wanting to copy. Now those 100,000 people are now hitting that 10M feed network. Leaving the 100 people strugling for bandwidth, voip services starts breaking up, people are no longer able to pull there video's, or mp3's at any decent speed, and games have lag. So those 100 people start calling in and complaining of slowness. The isp has to either add more bandwidth (unlikely not because they don't want to but the cost factor), or they add quality of service, priority, queing to there network. You limit upload speeds to those cable customers which helps but isn't the end all be all solution. You then try to implement a priority system that gives low priority to e-mail, and then either limit p2p programs or try to block them all together. So basicly you are the life line and bane of all isp's. -John
Kara Zane	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:56:00 - [124] Edited by: Kara Zane on 29/11/2007 17:55:59 Originally by: Jupiter Sun Quote: But what are downloading from giganews that is 3GB every night, night after night? Hi-def TV shows, lossless audio, films i've never seen and musicians i've never heard of before, that sorta thing. why do you ask? Well assuming you have the appropriate rights to that material why the hell are you downloading 3 GB in a few hours night after night you cant possibly be using that much yourself, so either your just downloading junk for the sake of it or something else is going on. Tbfh your the type of customer that's caused these limits to be foisted onto the rest of us.
Velios M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:06:00 - [125] Quite a few of us guys in M.Corp have virgin cable and can't get on Teamspeak that everyone else seems to be having no problem with. Is this all part of the Virgin mess up? M.Corp Capital Blueprint Facility
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:21:00 - [126] I'd also like to note that I am surpised that they would limit eve which is very low bandwidth application. When I do my bandwidth meters I think eve is like less than 30k a second. Teamspeak being just a tad more.
Nevvyn	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:58:00 - [127] For those of you with friends who have high bandwidth, we've tested it and if someone will sort you out a VPN to their connection outside of Virgin Media, VPN traffic is given high priority by them, so at least Eve becomes playable again. Nev. ~ some times you're the dog, some times you're the tree.
Jelan Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:35:00 - [128] Yep and here is the number of the head office of Virgin Media if you would like to complain Virgin Management - 020 72291282 See us at http://www.fusion-enterprises.org
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:11:00 - [129] Originally by: MHayes This what happens when you use a rubbish ISP..... www.zen.co.uk This is not surprising. In the US,many people use Comcast as their cable modem provider. It has recently been made public that they are denying connections to file sharing programs. This is the way of the future. Companies will advertise high speed internet,then secretly throttle down anything that use any significant bandwidth. We as consumers need to make it clear that we find this unnacceptable. If it happens on your provider,switch to another that does not do this and let them know why you switched. If consumers do not step up and demand this,then all the ISPs will start doing it,and then will charge more for "unlimited" services and we will have no choice but to accept it.
redialer Minmatar The African Contingency Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:25:00 - [130] Originally by: Velios Quite a few of us guys in M.Corp have virgin cable and can't get on Teamspeak that everyone else seems to be having no problem with. Is this all part of the Virgin mess up? TS has just stopped connecting for me, I have now found out they are blocking the IP of the TS Server host
SniperWo1f Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:07:00 - [131] what you should do as customers of a crap isp is band together communicate with one another group yourselves together and then sell your group subscription to an ISP that meets your demand . if you get together and package yourselves as X amount of user and subcriptions looking for ISP with following criteria . youll achieve better results and have more pull . as individual customer loss is hardly noteworthy but a mass migration is scary for ISP's
Paaaulo	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:24:00 - [132] So i have to ring them up and go through hassle to get this ** fixed? i ***** hate virgin media with a passion. If i had a BT phone line i wouldn't be anywhere near them
Troezar	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:35:00 - [133] I don't know if this will help anyone but I use Plusnet (UK ISP) who I noticed are now offering this service: Linkage I'm not currently on this but thinking about it once I buy a new house, anyone any thoughts?
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:28:00 - [134] Edited by: Andrue on 30/11/2007 08:34:00 Edited by: Andrue on 30/11/2007 08:30:14 Originally by: Jupiter Sun Originally by: Andrue But what are downloading from giganews that is 3GB every night, night after night? Hi-def TV shows, lossless audio, films i've never seen and musicians i've never heard of before, that sorta thing. why do you ask? Because I'm genuinely curious. So few people download that much (most rarely exceed 10GB a month) that I've long wondered what the extreme minority are doing. My next question is - how do you find the time to watch 3GB of video every night (we can probably assume that the pure audio is irrelevant) and play Eve? -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:32:00 - [135] Originally by: Iteken Hotori Originally by: shivan TBH, your best bet is to go with BT. As any company that doesn't use 'cable' to supply you with a net service is only going to lease the line from BT and then lease it to you. Nope. BT trafficshape too, i'm in the proces of giving them teh finger, sueing them for an ususeable connection and walkig naway. if you want a decent adsl link, get LLU. Suing them will be a monumental waste of time and money. The most you could possibly get would be a partial refund of your monthly subscription and that wouldn't be worth your or the court's time. In any case their T&C will cover them. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
ThaDollaGenerale Perkone	Posted - 2007.11.30 08:53:00 - [136] <- Living in Japan I want to get their fiber connection to my house. So begins the downfall of net neutrality. By developer, they mean who pays the most money for their program.
Velios M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:06:00 - [137] Edited by: Velios on 30/11/2007 10:05:54 Just cancelled my Virgin Broadband this morning and took the XL package from Sky. For only ú5 a month extra I now have Sky broadband XL, Sky HD and Sky talk unlimited. Lets hope it works... M.Corp Capital Blueprint Facility
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:15:00 - [138] Originally by: Velios Edited by: Velios on 30/11/2007 10:05:54 Just cancelled my Virgin Broadband this morning and took the XL package from Sky. For only ú5 a month extra I now have Sky broadband XL, Sky HD and Sky talk unlimited. Lets hope it works... When it comes to Broadband (as in most things, tbh) you normally get what you pay for (). In your case you have opted for one of the cheapest BB providers you can find. Draw your own conclusions. ()VM is a special case. They are primarily a cable company and therefore providing BB over ADSL means using another companies network (BT's IPStream most likely). This therefore overrides the fact that VM's prices aren't particularly sharp. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:21:00 - [139] I used to live in London and used www.zen.co.uk and tbh they were great, 18 months and there was a single interruption of service caused by upgrading the local exchange. Other than that I had great response times and I dont think I ever was throttled. When I moved out of London I had no choice but to get VM cable (XL) (used to be Telewest area) and except for 2 interruptions of service is working as advertised and I rarely get slowdowns. But I have another problem now though ... there are 14 wireless networks (including at least 3 MIMO ones) with god knows how many dect phones etc as well. I'm holding out for Linksys to start flogging their WRT600N in Europe for 802.11n in the 5Ghz spectrum (dont want to get that Apple jobby and Dlinks dual band dir-855 isnt out until next year )
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:34:00 - [140] Originally by: Cailais Virgins announcement - Linkage Thankfully I changed isp provider a few months ago - close call! C. I am glad you changed from VM to some other ISP I read those traffic management rules and found them to be very reasonable so my only conclusion is that you are a heavy downloader that is spoilt You see I download too, but I do it outside 4 pm to midnight as it makes more sense,not that you could see it. If you were smart you would have realised you could download over 5-10 GIG a day with VM on cable, 10 GIG a day ! ! ! just do it outside the peak times.(and depends if you're on 20 Meg or 10 Meg package) How many other ISPs allow 300 Gig a month download ?
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:41:00 - [141] Originally by: Bimjo I am glad you changed from VM to some other ISP[8) I read those traffic management rules and found them to be very reasonable so my only conclusion is that you are a heavy downloader that is spoilt You see I download too, but I do it outside 4 pm to midnight as it makes more sense,not that you could see it. If you were smart you would have realised you could download over 5-10 GIG a day with VM on cable, 10 GIG a day ! ! ! just do it outside the peak times.(and depends if you're on 20 Meg or 10 Meg package) How many other ISPs allow 300 Gig a month download ? Indeed, VM have never throttled me, my average monthly download would be 25GB ..... varies greatly though
Tyranis Bolke	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:44:00 - [142] I haven't heard good things about sky. I know a good few people who got unusable net and phones lines after a few months thanks to Rupert Murdoch's little pet. I'm on BT though, with excellent service no shaping (everyone else round here is on cable). Only problem is the price and the over-quoting of speeds. _______________________________________ Comfortably Numb
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:54:00 - [143] Edited by: Plutoinum on 30/11/2007 11:54:36 Originally by: Cailais Virgins announcement - Linkage Thankfully I changed isp provider a few months ago - close call! C. Hmm, as long as they are able to guarantee low ping and packetloss for game connections and voice applications, I could live with that, because they punish downloading a lot only during prime time and the punishment last only for only for 4 hours. I'd just schedule the big download jobs out of prime time then. Ok, currently I've got 16Mbit flat and no problems and limitations so far, but I'm afraid that it's coming, because they are offering TV/Movies over internet packages now and phone every 16+ Mbit user to upgrade to that. Can only hope that they've got the network infrastructure for that.
Falkrich Swifthand Caldari eNinjas Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:47:00 - [144] Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 30/11/2007 13:48:10 Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Bimjo I am glad you changed from VM to some other ISP[8) I read those traffic management rules and found them to be very reasonable so my only conclusion is that you are a heavy downloader that is spoilt You see I download too, but I do it outside 4 pm to midnight as it makes more sense,not that you could see it. If you were smart you would have realised you could download over 5-10 GIG a day with VM on cable, 10 GIG a day ! ! ! just do it outside the peak times.(and depends if you're on 20 Meg or 10 Meg package) How many other ISPs allow 300 Gig a month download ? Indeed, VM have never throttled me, my average monthly download would be 25GB ..... varies greatly though I'm on VM cable (4Mb), and I'm in the process of upgrading my fileserver from 4x300GB to 4x500GB hdds. By using download programs with a built-in scheduler, I can download as much as I like off-peak, while enjoying uninterrupted EVE in peak times :) nullnull
DarkXenon	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:00:00 - [145] Im on Virgin Media adsl and ive been getting HUGE lag on eve, also when on sisi I get disconnected every few mins. My steam account has been not working aswell, huge lag, not loggin in, not updating. Virgin Media ADSL is the biggest joke out there.
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:02:00 - [146] U COULD ALL MOVE TO DENMARK.. i pay 398 for a 20 mbit cnnection and thats like 80$ a month.. no limitation, and it is true 20 mb not some ****ti 2000 kb thing... cybercity for the win... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
dimaggio Gallente XTS	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:19:00 - [147] im not changing BB service im movin to Japan bloody easlier i think BT aint that good either, 4mb if im lucky with aol and sky i was getting 8 to 9mbs but with BT only 3 to 4mb its crap... so japan here i come...
Grez Minmatar e X i l e Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:25:00 - [148] Originally by: Maximada Blah blah Only works for ADSL, and it's a form of "GAIN" (anyone from the 56K days knows what I'm talking about). They cannot (well, they could, but it's damn ********) grade your line using this... Anyways, VM are rolling out DOCSIS 3.0 for cable users at christmas, and then rolling out 50MB next year for cable'rs as well. This also means major upgrades for the UBR's all around the country. If they do these upgrades, there will be no need for traffic management for quite some time (they're upgrading the capacity of each UBR to silly levels). --- Have a rawr on me.
Lord DeFault Minmatar Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:33:00 - [149] let watch dog know. Afew of us out there are working to get some change. It's not Just virgin media, They are doing it cos the others get away with much worse things. http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/ it's also got legal info on there. For the Republic
Kumo T'sun Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:34:00 - [150] I'm convinced Virgin are throttling my connection whenever I play Eve. Normally always happens 5pm onwards. I loose connection from eve repeatedly for no reason. I don't think it's the client booting me out as Xfire also d/c at the same time and sometimes msn. When I'm not playing eve the connection is fine. Sommats up whatever it is.
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:55:00 - [151] Originally by: Kumo T'sun Edited by: Kumo T''sun on 30/11/2007 14:38:05 I'm convinced Virgin are throttling my connection whenever I play Eve. Normally always happens 5pm onwards. I loose connection from eve repeatedly for no reason. I don't think it's the client booting me out as Xfire also d/c at the same time (everything else works fine). When I'm not playing eve the connection is fine. Sommats up whatever it is. Our home connection drops every few minutes for a few seconds(Virgin ADSL). Usually everything apart from Firefox (if you try to to load a webpage at the exact time it drops) copes well enough, but yus It's annoying. Also, a response from the devs on whether they can sort this issue would be nice.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:48:00 - [152] Any Devs going to comment on this? Virgin are blaming you for this. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Sofia Roseburn Caldari Stimulus	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:39:00 - [153] I sent an email to Kieron regarding it a couple of minutes ago. -----
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:18:00 - [154] Originally by: Greme Originally by: Kumo T'sun Edited by: Kumo T''sun on 30/11/2007 14:38:05 I'm convinced Virgin are throttling my connection whenever I play Eve. Normally always happens 5pm onwards. I loose connection from eve repeatedly for no reason. I don't think it's the client booting me out as Xfire also d/c at the same time (everything else works fine). When I'm not playing eve the connection is fine. Sommats up whatever it is. Our home connection drops every few minutes for a few seconds(Virgin ADSL). Usually everything apart from Firefox (if you try to to load a webpage at the exact time it drops) copes well enough, but yus It's annoying. Also, a response from the devs on whether they can sort this issue would be nice. I went through about 3 weeks of getting 4-8 disconnects (total, not just from EvE) per day with Virgin cable. I was blaming the modem, but I haven't had one for a week now. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:22:00 - [155] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 30/11/2007 21:25:42 Good news. Spoke to a support again, much more helpful if you don't phone. The issues has been escalated to head office and is being looked into. The game has somehow been classified alongside P2P for throttling. Shouldn't be a problem outside of peak times (4pm-12am). Hopefully it'll get resolved soon. Chris (22:11):Sounds like our current gaming issuse to be honest User (22:12):What is it? User (22:12):Or the cause at least Chris (22:12):Basically whats happened is that certain traffic is being classed as peer to peer and thus being throttled, We are working on this issue and the reason I know this is because I was first to raise it to faults, as alot of the gamers in here play eve also. User (22:13):It's being looked into then? Chris (22:14):Thats correct, our faults have raised it to head office and they are investigating as we speak. User (22:14):Excellent. Do the restrictions get lifted at midnight? Chris (22:16):Between 4pm and 12am its occuring after that it should be fine. [EDIT: Chatlog added] -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:19:00 - [156] dev response ?
Sin Meng Gallente Helios Incorporated Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:21:00 - [157] Originally by: Steve Hawkings dev response ? If I'm not mistaken CCP can't really do anything in this situation, similar to the Tiscali situation. ------------------------- EVE is a sandbox with land mines, deal with it.
Jart	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:23:00 - [158] I have been trying to play outside the supposed throttling periods (4pm - midnight), but the connection still seems bad. Maybe a little bit better but still nowhere near how it was playing for me a week or so ago.
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:24:00 - [159] feedback please devs!!!
Barbaro55a Caldari Amesha Spentaz Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.12.01 14:09:00 - [160] I've just rated my conection, i'm getting just under 200 killabits a second. I'm paying for "up to" 4MB. Mainly bad conection at peak times where i get disconected every 2-3 min, today i'm getting cut of every 20 so so, kinda crap. ANy one know of a good ISP for south west UK? Originally by: ISD Valorem If someone has hurt you out of game then please talk to family, friends or Police (if necessary)
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.01 16:13:00 - [161] Originally by: Jart I have been trying to play outside the supposed throttling periods (4pm - midnight), but the connection still seems bad. Mine runs fine outside of peak time, have you checked your not in Caldari space. Originally by: Barbaro55a I've just rated my conection, i'm getting just under 200 killabits a second. I'm paying for "up to" 4MB. Try the optimizer N1fty suggested. I've been stuck with 200kb/s max for months this just got me up to 1.65mb/s. VM support should really put something akin to this on their website. Also: Thanks N1fty, you made my week with that little program. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.12.01 18:10:00 - [162] Edited by: Bimjo on 01/12/2007 18:10:15 Originally by: Barbaro55a I've just rated my conection, i'm getting just under 200 killabits a second. I'm paying for "up to" 4MB. Mainly bad conection at peak times where i get disconected every 2-3 min, today i'm getting cut of every 20 so so, kinda crap. ANy one know of a good ISP for south west UK? hi , I am in the SW too and I have the 20 Meg Virgin Broadband CABLE(not ADSL) and when the service is very very slow I still get 4 Meg Right now I can get 18 Meg down and 750 K up EVEmail me if you want more details 8800 Ultra SLI
Barbaro55a Caldari Amesha Spentaz Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:09:00 - [163] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Try the optimizer N1fty suggested. I've been stuck with 200kb/s max for months this just got me up to 1.65mb/s. VM support should really put something akin to this on their website. Also: Thanks N1fty, you made my week with that little program. That program just made my conection 10 times faster.... will see if i keep loosing conection... Originally by: ISD Valorem If someone has hurt you out of game then please talk to family, friends or Police (if necessary)
Zanzo	Posted - 2007.12.02 02:42:00 - [164] im in process of cancelling virgin atm
Kavol Valarius Amarr Unity of Honor Legion of Honor	Posted - 2007.12.02 03:15:00 - [165] Originally by: Malcanis I went through about 3 weeks of getting 4-8 disconnects (total, not just from EvE) per day with Virgin cable. I was blaming the modem, but I haven't had one for a week now. I would strongly advise you to call them and ask for a replacement modem. I was having this same fault until they replaced my ancient Terayon TJ210 cable modem with a brand spanking new Virgin Media 255 model. If you call before 5 (I think?) you should get a nice helpful english person on the other end of the phone. If you call any later you'll get put through to the outsourced Indian call center. I have nothing against them personally, but they read from scripts and are utterly useless because of it, even if you just want something as simple as a replacement modem. -----
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.02 04:29:00 - [166] Originally by: Barbaro55a That program just made my conection 10 times faster.... will see if i keep loosing conection... Connection loss may be due to using a USB modem. USB modems often have voltage issues and have limited bandwidths (4-5mb). If your using the Speedtouch modem ensure you have it plugged directly into a USB port on the back of your PC, using an extension or hub makes the issue worse, and get hold of an ethernet modem ASAP. I've got mine working again but I really do need to get me an ethernet modem now that optimizer has my connection meeting the limits of the modem. 8mb connection, with a free 5mb modem. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Aki Yamato	Posted - 2007.12.02 05:23:00 - [167] Well if VM commands traffic shaping based on QOS (TOS field in IP header), it should be quite easy to set high priority on a router (if you have hal decent one, at least my crappy WRT54 an do it), probably even in OS. However according to to several linkages here the just implemented FUP (fair user policy), witch should not affect anyone who is not on TOP downloaders list. BTW i dont thing so that any larger provider dont have implemented some kind of FUPs, just some of them is using it for monitoring not restricting. BIG GUN BIG FUTURE
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.02 06:06:00 - [168] It's nothing to do with the Fair Usage Policy. EVE-Online has made it's way onto a list that includes P2P programs and other bandwidth hogs. A list of programs that will be specifically throttled during peak time. Hopefully it'll make it's way off that list soon as staying up to stupid'o'clock to get my EVE fix isn't really practical. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.02 06:14:00 - [169] been using nildram for about 7 years now, all good stuff, good assistance their side if/when required. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:11:00 - [170] Ive just switched to IDNET from VM its about 10 pounds more expensive per month but the service is second to none and they dont use any traffic shaping. No call centres and if you phone them, you are speaking to an English techie after about 2 seconds. Customer service and a faultless connection is worth the extra money imo.
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.02 19:43:00 - [171] Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 02/12/2007 19:43:58 Originally by: Victor Valka There's a field in the TCP packet header called ToS (type of service). They could be using that, and developers of applications are the ones that control the values in this field. You would think so wouldn't you... however with ISPs rolling out deep packet inspecting hardware don't expect it to only 'inspect'.... here's a quote from a developer who writes code for some of that hardware... I read; 1. the source and destination IP, 2. the TCP port numbers, 3. the MAC addresses, 4. I delete the payload, I substitute my own payload having first resized the packet, 5. I write back the previously read values in the reverse order to forge a server response, 6. I calculate the appropriate sequence and acknowledgement numbers so the TCP/IP stack on the client has no idea what just happened. It is a valid server response, even though the intended server never got the packet. And it works. So not only do we have no control over what we send and receive anymore, or at what rate of speed, neither do the ISPs. Just slap one of these boxes on an backbone, add some clever code, and at 10Gb/sec per port re-write everything (to slow it down, to replace content with your own content, to make a copy of all SSL traffic containing certain data, or simply to change the priority of all packets coming from certain ports/other ISPs/etc.) Going with the small ISP is a great place to start though as they don't have the money for this sort of kit but somewhere big brother is re-writing what you wanted to read on the fly without you knowing it.... CCP this is not the nerf you are looking for...
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.03 15:56:00 - [172] It looks like it isn't just Eve either: Trouble at t'mill. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Kai Dorfman	Posted - 2007.12.03 16:47:00 - [173] Virgin sux, they are nothing but liars and ****ers! My comp is top spec, my line is 8mb and ventrilo and eve lag like a mofo...... Im being told bull crap answers to problems. Im in north west england so its wide spread. Im nullifying my contact soon cos they suck and lie.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:11:00 - [174] Originally by: Kai Dorfman Virgin sux, they are nothing but liars and ****ers! My comp is top spec, my line is 8mb and ventrilo and eve lag like a mofo...... Im being told bull crap answers to problems. You tried calling didn't you? Unless your internet is down don't ever bother calling VM you can be sure you'll get a useless/false answer. Use the interactive help and wait for your contract to come to an end. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:16:00 - [175] i just switched isps from vm and vm expect me to pay for the last couple of months of a crap connection i told them id see them in court and to tell Brasnon to go **** himself. They hung up.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.07 15:51:00 - [176] Mild necro, apologies for that, but the saga continues. Alec (16:09):Hi, Welcome to Virgin Media Chat and Remote Assistance. My name is Alec. How may I help you? User (16:10):I spoke to someone on here over a week ago about your current gaming issue where certain games are being throttled as they have somehow made their way onto the same list as p2p programs. User (16:10):I'd like to know if there has been any progress on the issue. Alec (16:14):Recently we have started maintenance on our Network that should increase the overall speeds that you can receive. While this work is being carried out, you may experience high pings and slow speeds to certain gaming servers and voice clients, this is currently being resolved by our engineers and will be back to normal sometime in the near future. Sadly we cannot be more specific on the timescales however it is being looked into with the highest priority User (16:16):It's nothing to do with maintainence. It was a change that introduced the throttling of p2p and unfortunately a lot of games also. When I spoke to a member of your staff last week I was informed the issue had been raised through faults to head office and was being investigated. Alec (16:18):Well there's you another Alec (16:19):answer User (16:20):The system was changed, it wasn't accidental, and this "highest priority" issue, whihc has several gaming communities in uproar, has already taken far longer to fix than it should. Gamers are paying subscriptions for both broadband and gmaes that they cannot use. User (16:20):*which User (16:24):Why is it taking so long to roll-back this change? Alec (16:24):Again since Im not in control of the network I can't give you any explanation User (16:25):Will there be notification to customers once the issue is resolved? User (16:26):And whom do I contact to receive an explanation, clarification, or at the very least information on why this was done in the first place. Alec (16:26):http://gps.virgin.net/service-announcements/status - This is the virgin status page User (16:27):I'm aware of the current service issues, this is a seperate problem. Alec (16:29):I have no other information to give you User (16:29):So we won't be receiving notification and there is no one else I can contact on this matter, correct? Alec (16:31):I'm sure that when virgin update the status page they are informing their customer that the matter is resolved User (16:32):I see, well as I said the srvice issue is a seperate problem to the 4pm to 12am throttling. In short, we did something, we're not rolling it back, we're going to try to fix the issue but have no idea idea how long it may take. Their customer support seems to know nothing beyond a pre-made copy-pasted response. Yes, I know, I can't spell. -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Jart	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:23:00 - [177] I'm still getting problems with Virgin media no matter what time of day. Is this still affecting others? It seems to be random as well, sometimes its resonable but then it will not respond for as much as 1 minute. I am going to raise this to Virgin media but I would like to know if others still have problems or have in fact now got a better connection.
Jovienus	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:28:00 - [178] Mate change your port to tcp/udp 3724 you can do this in trinity by editing the prefs.ini file. That new port should bepass the problem.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.11 04:11:00 - [179] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 11/12/2007 04:16:11 Originally by: Jart I'm still getting problems with Virgin media no matter what time of day. Is this still affecting others? It seems to be random as well, sometimes its resonable but then it will not respond for as much as 1 minute. I am going to raise this to Virgin media but I would like to know if others still have problems or have in fact now got a better connection. Yes, the status page reports issues, there hasn't been an update in days customer support knows nothing about it. Last I heard was on 07/12/07@11:48 "Slower than usual speeds are being reported in certain areas: an upgrade to resolve this has been identified and deployment has commenced. We will update this site when roll-out has completed" Status page still shows this data now. The throttling is still in place and worse often isn't lifted until after 1am, that or the other issues coincidentally are slowing my connection during that hour each night this weekend. [EDIT will try the port change tomorrow.] -------- Idling until the Virgin Media crisis is over.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.12.11 05:36:00 - [180] I still have no problems with virgin media or any software, I must be just lucky. --------------------------------------- Output folder: C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE Delete file: \boot.ini Extract: boot.ini... 100%
Kravick Drasari Caldari Setanta Strategic Consultants	Posted - 2007.12.11 08:58:00 - [181] Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 11/12/2007 09:03:49 Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Mild necro, apologies for that, but the saga continues. Alec (16:09):Hi, Welcome to Virgin Media Chat and Remote Assistance. My name is Alec. How may I help you? User (16:10):I spoke to someone on here over a week ago about your current gaming issue where certain games are being throttled as they have somehow made their way onto the same list as p2p programs. User (16:10):I'd like to know if there has been any progress on the issue. Alec (16:14):Recently we have started maintenance on our Network that should increase the overall speeds that you can receive. While this work is being carried out, you may experience high pings and slow speeds to certain gaming servers and voice clients, this is currently being resolved by our engineers and will be back to normal sometime in the near future. Sadly we cannot be more specific on the timescales however it is being looked into with the highest priority User (16:16):It's nothing to do with maintainence. It was a change that introduced the throttling of p2p and unfortunately a lot of games also. When I spoke to a member of your staff last week I was informed the issue had been raised through faults to head office and was being investigated. Alec (16:18):Well there's you another Alec (16:19):answer User (16:20):The system was changed, it wasn't accidental, and this "highest priority" issue, whihc has several gaming communities in uproar, has already taken far longer to fix than it should. Gamers are paying subscriptions for both broadband and gmaes that they cannot use. User (16:20):which User (16:24):Why is it taking so long to roll-back this change? Alec (16:24):Again since Im not in control of the network I can't give you any explanation User (16:25):Will there be notification to customers once the issue is resolved? User (16:26):And whom do I contact to receive an explanation, clarification, or at the very least information on why this was done in the first place. Alec (16:26):http://gps.virgin.net/service-announcements/status - This is the virgin status page User (16:27):I'm aware of the current service issues, this is a seperate problem. Alec (16:29):I have no other information to give you User (16:29):So we won't be receiving notification and there is no one else I can contact on this matter, correct? Alec (16:31):I'm sure that when virgin update the status page they are informing their customer that the matter is resolved User (16:32):I see, well as I said the srvice issue is a seperate problem to the 4pm to 12am throttling. This entire conversation sounds like you where talking to a robot and not an actual person . That or someone in China with a list of scripts to paste in there when they see certain key words. I hope you guys over there get your stuff fixed soon. I live in the USA. I know what its like to have to bull* your way through company bureaucracy. I use a popular and quite large ISP (Roadrunner) thats offered through a local cable company. I had issues with the cable lines themselves having been chewed to shreds by the local wildlife (Damn squirrels! ) The ISP couldn't do anything about it because the cable lines where owned by the local company so I had to deal with them on this matter. 2 and a half months of back and forth bull** over the phone, my internet not working, and people coming out to my house to test the line going to my house (not the problem) and not the lines on the poles themselves, I finally had enough and went to the company office in person. Long story short, they tried to give me the same bull** excuses, I started yelling VERY** loudly, but they couldn't "hang up" on me, and the next day a truck showed up and fixed the problem. Sure, I acted like an idiot, but it got the problem fixed. It also wasn't as simple as switching companies as it was a line problem, not the ISP's fault, and DSL isn't offered in my area. Cable only.
zilllii Squirrel Power	Posted - 2007.12.11 09:54:00 - [182] the problem isnt the bandwith but the fact that the UK ISP's and their telephone companies are to damn cheap to put fibre cables in the ground so it will be enough. they are just cheap bastids who tries to milk every penny they can from every bit of traffic.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 09:59:00 - [183] Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: Dire Lauthris I'd love to hear what their definition of "high priority" traffic is. Do they fit the TCP packets with flashing blue lights and a siren?. Yes, actually. There's a field in the TCP packet header called ToS (type of service). They could be using that, and developers of applications are the ones that control the values in this field. Even if that is true, doesn't it make the whole practice of throttling based on priority assigned by the application developer completely useless in the long term? If I were a developer and I heard this (as I assume all of them will if this becomes common practice), is to make every program set that value to absolutely 'critically important' for every program I'd write that used the internet. So soon enough there will be no ability for the ISP to sort traffic by that standard. ------------------------------------------------
Nathanial Victor Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2007.12.11 11:42:00 - [184] i'm an isp and i'm getting a kick out of these replies? if you honestly think they can / would do this your nuts. maybe on a different platform, but never on ip as we know it. a lot of ppl get the short end of the stick from their isp, a lot of ppl get lied to by them, and most ppl get throttled to some degree or another on their connections. if your somehow dynamically throttled, i guarantee its done using usage statistics. as in quantity not type. nothing to do w/ the application your using. why would they? to mass catagorize customers using certain applications? you all use your connections, you all pay, to a degree they dont really care what your doing w/ it, so all they are concerned w/ is your usage/impact on their router/cmts and whether or not you pay your bill. now, you can do some nifty traffic shaping/qos'ing, and yes there are fields they could use to measure this, but its not really along the lines of what the OP suggests, not to mention if they tried, how much of a pain in the ass it would be because ppl would just change their ****. no, i dont think anyone in this thread has their isp analyzing traffic based on a code hidden in the tcp header that was placed there by the company that made the game under agreement w/ the isps (though yeah there are kinda a couple rules) but no, just no. "one more spam thread will get you a warning. - Thanks Hutch. " isn't a warning of a warning a warning? or just a warning of a warning? didnt he just get 'the warning'? my head hurts
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:03:00 - [185] Get a Linux firewall/NAT machine in your network. You can then manipulate the TOS bits of your traffice that's going out. This way you can set all you traffic to interactive (iirc highest priority TOS) and have no problems at all. I don't know if any of the small routers on the market can do this. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Agif Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:06:00 - [186] I might be moving back to the UK so what is a good ISP who wont mess you about etc etc. -------------------
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:26:00 - [187] Edited by: Plutoinum on 11/12/2007 13:30:34 Originally by: Hugh Ruka Get a Linux firewall/NAT machine in your network. You can then manipulate the TOS bits of your traffice that's going out. This way you can set all you traffic to interactive (iirc highest priority TOS) and have no problems at all. I don't know if any of the small routers on the market can do this. Yes, you can change those TOS bits that way, only thing I actually wonder about at the moment is, what happens to the TOS bits of the downstream packets. They must be set on the other end, when they reach your end it's too late. You have no control on the other end, just your own upstream, except opening a TCP connection with certain TOS bits already means that the other side sends back with the same TOS bits. I doubt that it's working that way.
Silencioso Muerte	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:28:00 - [188] i jsut switched from virgin to fast.co.uk and... omg what a difference, all my lantency is sorted and im running smooth as hell. SWITCH NOW! virgin suck! ----------------------
Lightof God Caldari Founder's of the Dominion The Dominion Empire	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:38:00 - [189] Best way to stop it is if all of you leave that ISP and write a note detailing why. Virgin is a corperation that's sole function is to make a profit, and if they see enough of their profit worn away due to an unpopular decision they will recend that decision. Its economics guys, you have to hurt them in the pocketbook.
Barbaro55a Caldari Amesha Spentaz Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:09:00 - [190] /me locked into a 12 month contract... wouldn't hurt their pocket by leaving. would only give them one less moaning git on the phone. Originally by: ISD Valorem If someone has hurt you out of game then please talk to family, friends or Police (if necessary)
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:59:00 - [191] Edited by: Andrue on 11/12/2007 16:01:15 Edited by: Andrue on 11/12/2007 15:59:46 Originally by: zilllii the problem isnt the bandwith but the fact that the UK ISP's and their telephone companies are to damn cheap to put fibre cables in the ground so it will be enough. they are just cheap bastids who tries to milk every penny they can from every bit of traffic. The funny thing being that VM is the only ISP in the UK that has its own cable network. It's even funnier if you consider that they are currently trumpeting how this will allow them to roll out 50Mb services (more than doubling their current offering) next year. As for rolling out better networks..the problem is demand. No one can currently come up with anything practical to do with the proposed bandwidth. The UK doesn't need it for video broadcasting because Sky and Freeview have that covered. Using BB for VoD (Video on Demand) has merit but the charging model looks very shaky. How much will you pay to watch a movie over BB? Presumably less than you'd pay to rent it from a shop or postal service. That seriously erodes any revenue stream and makes a ú15 billion investment look stupid. The only people right now that want faster local loop in the UK are the small minority (less than 10%) of compulsive downloaders. Unfortunately those people are also the most vocal when it comes to objecting to high prices so again the revenue stream is weak. The UK is currently stuck between a rock and a hardplace. We think that we need to invest ú15 billion in networks but we don't actually know why. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:01:00 - [192] I would contend that TV and video broadcasting is exactly what they want the bandwidth for, with Virgin having their own channel, and Tiscali (a known uber throttler) rolling out and heavily promoting it's phone+line+broadband+TV package.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:23:00 - [193] Edited by: Andrue on 11/12/2007 20:25:13 Edited by: Andrue on 11/12/2007 20:23:50 Originally by: Snaith I would contend that TV and video broadcasting is exactly what they want the bandwidth for, with Virgin having their own channel, and Tiscali (a known uber throttler) rolling out and heavily promoting it's phone+line+broadband+TV package. I would content that you are wrong and missing the point. Virgin do not offer TV over broadband. They offer TV over their network which is entirely different. Scheduled broadasting doesn't need BB. If all people want is scheduled digital TV (HD or SD) then they can have it now via Sky, Freeview or VM's cable. They are all tried and proven technology and I doubt there's a home in the UK that doesn't have at least one of them. With a PVR you an reschedule material which is pretty close to VoD (I haven't watched anything live for several years now). The only way BB can compete with satellite and cable is to offer true VoD. IOW by allowing you to browse a library of material and start watching whatever you want whenever you want. Unfortunately that is the worst case scenario as far as a network is concerned. There are no ways to combine data streams so you're looking at end point to end point transfer rates of 10Mb and higher with low latency and low packet loss for each programme/film being watched. It's technically possible but horribly, horribly expensive to provide. Given that Sky and Freeview have paid their bulk of their capital costs they can wipe the floor with any BB wannabe by dropping their prices. Bottom line:BB cannot afford to provide the kind of service that it needs to to compete with existing and well established technologies in the UK. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:30:00 - [194] Originally by: Jovienus Mate change your port to tcp/udp 3724 you can do this in trinity by editing the prefs.ini file. That new port should bepass the problem. Didn't help but thanks anyway. -------- Idling until the Virgin Media crisis is over.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:31:00 - [195] is that even legal? Trashed sig, Shark was here
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2007.12.11 23:07:00 - [196] They offer the plus type box too. I am no way promoting tiscali, but I still say , they are grabbing and going to grab all the bandwidth they can for this, and it is just the start of the demand service, which will only grow, as already it is cheaper than it's sky rival and sold as a package. tiscali tv service link As said I am no way promoting tiscali, and until they get their throttling of this game sorted would recommend you avoid them
Jart	Posted - 2007.12.11 23:55:00 - [197] Originally by: Jovienus Mate change your port to tcp/udp 3724 you can do this in trinity by editing the prefs.ini file. That new port should bepass the problem. Seems to work for me. Thank-you
blake fallout	Posted - 2007.12.11 23:57:00 - [198] bulldogbroadband 8mb and phone for ú30 (1mB) 16mb and phone for ú35 (2mB)
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.12.12 00:00:00 - [199] I have to sadly report that it is now affecting me too, seems like I was a tad quick on praising VM on page 5 I get disconnected about every 2 hours or so during the week in the early evening , but it only started since Trinity. I will monitor my situation and get some software to see if I can trace the problem, until then I am not sure if it is VM or CCP Q6600,8800 Ultra SLI, Vista 32, 4Gig RAM , G15 , TripleHead2Go, Raptor X
finak	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:03:00 - [200] Originally by: Maximada this is what virgin have said using remote assistance. I think it will explain alot. User (22:28):Mainly ventrilo, its also affecting Eve Online and also it seems to be affecting steam as well as its not allowing me to update it User (22:29): Teamspeak and xbox live are fine as are my intrnet speeds. Infact my gaming on xbox live seem more stable than ever. Chris (22:40):From the information that I've gathered regarding certain programs (Ventrilo and a select few games) It appears that they are marking themeselves as low priority traffic. Our traffic management systems are picking them up as "Low Priority" as it should and placing this information towards the back to allow high priority traffic through. Basically the game/program marks itself as low priority, and thus causes the ping spikes, if you could please email the programs developers to find out if their program marks their information packets as "Low Priorty" If that is the case then our filtering system is performing its duty correctly, however obviously this is a problem for you and something the developers will need to fix User (22:41):Well they were both working fine up until friday Chris (22:42):I know, its something thats been implemented it checks packet priorty and arranges due to priority Chris (22:42):as its marking as low Chris (22:42):its sent to the back User (22:43):So this is a new system being put into place then/ Chris (22:44):Yes it allows us to priortise certain traffic depending on what the application specifies and requests, Its really upto the game and application developers now to re-proritise thier programmes and then our system will hopefully give a more stable game environment and filter the rubbish out. Unfortunately some apps are seen as rubbish at this time until the creators fix them User (22:44):Ok, thanks for all the help So there you go fellas hope that explains it. Would be nice to see if CCP are doing anything about this. MAX shame that the tech center these guys work in close at 22.30 and the staff really hate waiting on 5 mins let alone longer than that
Snaith Minmatar Bug Eyed Monsters	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:57:00 - [201] Edited by: Snaith on 12/12/2007 01:59:54 Welcome to the Tiscali effect, try using pingplotter to find if you are throttled or actually blocked www.pingplotter.com . As for the champion of bulldog who posted above, they were taken over by Pipex as was Toucan and Eclipse I believe, who in turn were taken over by our ever popular Eve throttling Tiscali so don't make no assumptions about the service staying as is.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.12 05:47:00 - [202] Originally by: Jart Originally by: Jovienus Mate change your port to tcp/udp 3724 you can do this in trinity by editing the prefs.ini file. That new port should bepass the problem. Seems to work for me. Thank-you Good to hear, I'm having other issues with my connection at the moment (see above) so this might actually mean we have a fix. To confirm I'm not just doing it wrong, because I see no improvement right now, it's a case of simply changing the prefs.ini to read "port=3724" yes? -------- Idling until the Virgin Media crisis is over.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.12.12 05:56:00 - [203] Originally by: zilllii the problem isnt the bandwith but the fact that the UK ISP's and their telephone companies are to damn cheap to put fibre cables in the ground so it will be enough. they are just cheap bastids who tries to milk every penny they can from every bit of traffic. FYI a good proportion of the Virgin network is fibre optics and has been for over ten years, A company called Com tell installed it in 1994 and then Com tell and Cable and wireless and some other smaller local providers where swallowed up and ended up in NTL which merged with Telewest which then in turn became Virgin media. Just for reference I found a older article where VM admitted "crap service" --------------------------------------- Output folder: C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE Delete file: \boot.ini Extract: boot.ini... 100%
Rakeris Brethren Empire	Posted - 2007.12.12 05:59:00 - [204] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: warwick pearmund My broadband is excellent, 100 Mbps as standard, and it works exactly as advertised. Of course living in Japan helps.The UK desperately needs to upgrade its network or else it is in danger of being left behind the rest of the industrialised world Lifted from the BBC debate and sums it up perfectly imho. The UK? Man what about the US. The US is even worse than the UK when it comes to internet access. Crap I live 3 miles outside of the capital of IL, and the only broadband I can get is wireless... not to mention in the US broadband is considered any internet service over 400k (I think it was, it's been a while). Don't even get my started on the laws in the US that PREVENT companies from using current lines used by another company even though, 99% of those lines where paid for with federal grants. It's just beyond pathetic. Oh well. But at any rate, if your ISP is doing that I would just switch. I sure hope mine doesn't start doing that, as it's the only broadband I can get... ---------- I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings from the abusive mods are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises.
Jart	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:01:00 - [205] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Jart Originally by: Jovienus Mate change your port to tcp/udp 3724 you can do this in trinity by editing the prefs.ini file. That new port should bepass the problem. Seems to work for me. Thank-you Good to hear, I'm having other issues with my connection at the moment (see above) so this might actually mean we have a fix. To confirm I'm not just doing it wrong, because I see no improvement right now, it's a case of simply changing the prefs.ini to read "port=3724" yes? Yes I simply changed the port in the prefs.ini file, might be a coincidence but I have been ok now all yesterday. Maybe there are other values that you could try, but I do not know what they would be. If you are being throttled as a heavy user (I was for a week), this might not help. Although they say that they just slow you down a bit, it was far worse then that, I couldn't accesss all of the web or consitently retrive e-mails etc. They don't inform you thet they are doing it either, you have to ask them.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:53:00 - [206] Virgin Media already use their network for TV (SD & HD), telephone, digital radio, Video on Demand, Broadband (50meg is on trial already) .. and they still don't have a good business case for replacing the cable run from the street cabinet with fibre. They still have spare capacity, and can't think of ways to use it. Why would BT want to put themselves in that same position, and stick 15bil of debt on top of it? Until someone can actually find meaningful ways to use the capacity that can be provided by fibre to the door, what incentive is there for anyone to invest in it? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:08:00 - [207] i dont see how its legal you payed for your internet and can use it any way you want switch providers immediately Trashed sig, Shark was here
Fehz Combat and Mining Utility Inc. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:13:00 - [208] sorry to hear of so many isp woes.. my isp gives me 3 up and 3 down and i get good ping times in fps games of 20-40 ms.. and they even did some custom port forwarding just for me.. your isp's suck. too bad mine doesn't cover more than a 15 mile radius...
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:14:00 - [209] It's legal because the contracts for almost all UK ISP's basically state they can do whatever they want and if we don't like it we have to pay up the rest of our contract lengths fees and a disconnection fee. In more pleasant news it appears that EVE is finally working during the day for me. Local issue seems to be fixed and the port change has bypassed the throttling... or something like, that I'm no expert. -------- Idling until the Virgin Media crisis is over.

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CCP fix for Amarr is in EVE Trinity - The Trinity of training either Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar!